IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-07-13
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00:14:16 <nicfer> one question, would fix cargo destinations / cargo distribution the transfers trouble?
00:15:54 <nicfer> I mean, I have troubles with them
00:29:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, cargodest would obsolete transfer orders
00:30:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but because it makes all orders inherently transfer, some other trobles appear
00:30:58 <Eddi|zuHause> especially the overestimation of transfer credits
00:44:07 <niblet> im just dropping by because Im stuck again ofc.. is there a way to look up the X and Y tile coordinates of a Sign? I mean the class has a X, Y and Z component, but those dont seem to correspond to TileIndex->x and y.
00:48:57 <niblet> I mean they dont seem to correspond to TileX(tileindex)
01:10:07 <PeterT> anyone have any idea where to get those patched servers like ! Goal servers, or grow your city servers?
01:11:30 <niblet> you can have mine when Im done with it
01:11:45 <niblet> just got to sort out a couple of more bugs and I'll put it on the forums
01:12:28 <PeterT> its like a goal server? what commands?
01:13:10 <PeterT> sweet, im on that right now
01:13:34 <PeterT> Peter and cameron transports
01:16:13 <niblet> right. well hopefully I'll have it posted tomorrow some time
01:18:36 <PeterT> will it be at the top?
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01:36:54 <PeterT> how do you use conditional orders?
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09:05:56 <adasko> can i somehow predicted when industries inress production?
09:06:54 <Rubidium> predict to maybe 60% certainty
09:08:07 <Rubidium> hmm, no that's actually
09:08:21 <Rubidium> @calc 0.1667 * 0.6667
09:08:21 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 0.11113889
09:09:50 <adasko> hm... so if i have excelent ratings i have to wait...?
09:10:46 <Rubidium> then there is, per month, a higher chance of production increase than production decrease
09:11:14 <Rubidium> however... it's all random, so it might keep on decreasing
09:11:24 <Rubidium> anyhow, oil wells will always only decrease
09:11:47 <adasko> Rubidium: I read it... bit its not perfectly clear for me, i just wanted to confirm that i udenrstand this article ;)
09:12:35 <adasko> on some multiplayer games i saw coal mine with around 1k production of coal ;)
09:13:12 <planetmaker> adasko, yes, provide constantly good service and chances are that it grows quite well.
09:13:19 <planetmaker> 2k is maximum you can get for coal mines
09:13:29 <planetmaker> assuming default industries
09:15:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16801 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#3022]: cargo payments weren't destroyed when a vehicle was destructed. This only happened when you crashed a vehicle while it was unloading.
09:18:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16802 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp:
09:18:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3031]: service orders didn't behave like conditional orders; if a train
09:18:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: doesn't need service it didn't completely skip the order, it would first send
09:18:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: the vehicle towards the depot and would then realise it doesn't need to go there
09:18:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: making it possible that the vehicle leaves that station on the wrong side.
09:19:08 <adasko> so... what i can do to increase chance of increase production of industries? use new trains, keep max speed of entering station, keep excelent rating for products... anythig else?
09:20:08 <adasko> if i dont have a station for passangers in town, but im using for example coal mine from owner by this towen, is there a point to make advertising campaign? ;>
09:23:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes... advertising campain affects all cargos within a certain radius around town
09:23:48 <Rubidium> advertising campaings only temporarily increase the station rating of nearby stations, regardless of the type. How it exactly behaves is also on the game mechanics page
09:57:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16803 /branches/0.7/ (10 files in 4 dirs):
09:57:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
09:57:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Add: [NoAI] AIVehicle::GetReliability to get the current reliability of vehicles (r16790)
09:57:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: The win32 and win64 binary packages would not get their readme converted to DOS line endings (r16769)
09:57:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AITile::GetCargoProduction/Acceptance did not accept a radius of 0 anymore (r16767)
09:57:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: In the refit window the "Select cargo type to carry" line always showed the ship refit tooltip [FS#3018] (r16757)
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10:17:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16804 /branches/0.7/src/ (16 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
10:17:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
10:17:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Service orders did not behave like conditional orders; if a train does not need service it did not completely skip the order, but still go in the direction of the depot [FS#3031] (r16802)
10:17:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Houses would not get build on the map edge [FS#3025] (r16795)
10:17:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Audio playback rate was fixed at 11025Hz regardless of the rate specified
10:17:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: to the audio driver, resulting in incorrect playback speed. It is still
10:17:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: preferable to use 11025Hz output rate if possible as OpenTTD's sample rate
10:17:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r16805 /trunk/src/ (mixer.cpp mixer.h sound.cpp): -Codechange: Remove 'unused' mixer channel flags, which always had the same value.
10:28:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16806 /branches/0.7/ (51 files in 3 dirs): [0.7] -Backport from trunk: language updates
10:31:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16807 /branches/0.7/src/lang/ (25 files in 2 dirs): [0.7] -Fix (r16806): shouldn't forget to revert the 'mistakes' of the script :(
10:33:09 <petern> is it near, or just house keeping?
10:33:55 <Rubidium> still waiting on FS#2703 to be fixed
10:35:15 <Rubidium> though I'm pondering whether to wait for that or just release a RC (some quite untrivial backports) and do another RC when FS#2703 is fixed
10:35:17 <DorpsGek> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16808 /branches/0.7/ (12 files in 2 dirs): [0.7] -Fix [FS#2703]
10:35:54 <petern> TrueBrain to the rescue
10:37:41 <TrueBrain> solutions are always simple :p
10:38:17 <TrueBrain> I like mine solution more :p
10:38:59 <Rubidium> you could also consider finding a whip and whip Yexo until he has fixed it ;)
10:39:11 <petern> back to the (current) r1
10:39:19 <TrueBrain> petern: I already once gave you a patch for that
10:39:21 <TrueBrain> you didn't like it :'(
10:39:39 <petern> then implement an ini file system instead
10:39:59 <TrueBrain> NO! BINARY! MUCH BETTER!!
10:40:12 <petern> TrueBrain, don't be stupid!
10:40:27 <Rubidium> oh, sorry... natural language is much better
10:40:28 * TrueBrain puts on a crazy face
10:40:49 <petern> woah, you look like bjarni ;)_
10:41:45 <Rubidium> I want a nice looking power plant that accepts coal and gas, has a nice smoke stack and shows a burning furnace whenever there is coal/gas in the stockpile. It also shows a stockpile with coal, gas won't be shown as it is in big underground containers. This means no tunnels under the industry are allowed.
10:42:13 <Eddi|zuHause> let's rewrite openttd in COBOL
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10:44:31 <Rubidium> and for real good measures, the system should understand the following too:
10:44:32 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, erlang :-D
10:44:33 <Rubidium> I would like to find a good acceptance of the coal and natural gas power plant is a good smoke stack and display the incineration furnace gas stocks. It also shows that stocks and coal, natural gas is not shown because it is underground in a large container. This means that there is no industry-wide tunnel is not allowed.
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10:45:13 <TrueBrain> I think Rubidium is losing it
10:45:13 <Rubidium> English -> Dutch -> Chinese -> Finnish -> English
10:45:16 <TrueBrain> who is going to stop him? :)
10:45:35 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: if any language, pick ADA
10:45:50 <planetmaker> nah. Take prolog :P
10:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> ADA being the i-don't-allow-you-to-write-bad-code-but-i-don't-allow-you-to-write-good-code-either language?
10:46:32 <dihedral> erlang has not global variables, variables work more like constants, you hand around a whopping huge state :-P
10:46:44 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: exactly!
10:46:50 <Rubidium> only OCR-ed whitespace!
10:46:58 <blathijs> dihedral: Yay for functional programming :-)
10:47:44 <dihedral> erlang is neat and fast, but .....
10:48:17 <dihedral> i somewhat dislike having to pass a huge state all the time
10:49:45 <Rubidium> or... if you want a language that can be run at the speed of the chip: VHDL
10:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the compiling takes ages, though :p
10:50:13 <TrueBrain> one of those 'languages' I try to keep a clear distance from
10:50:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and there are valid programs that cannot be compiled properly ;)
10:58:19 <petern> openttd should support 1000000x1000000 maps with 1000 height levels
10:58:28 <petern> and it should run on the same hardware that TTD did
10:58:41 <TheStarLion> somehow, I don't think even the most efficiant coding would manage that
10:58:55 <Rubidium> petern: and it must be ttdp compatible?
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11:05:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i want all my (custom patch pack) games to load in all openttd and ttdpatch versions with all features enabled
11:09:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16808 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r16338): don't crash when loading savegame with invalid references
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11:18:22 <gein> I was just wondering if I have the permission to "copy" your wiki layout to another open source project?
11:19:25 <fonsinchen> SmatZ, are you still interested in smallmap zooming?
11:19:50 <TrueBrain> gein: good question; I wonder under what license our wiki is ... btw, define "copy" ;) I don't trust those " :p
11:20:52 <gein> TrueBrain: I'm not interested of the contents, just how you have structured the wiki with titles, subtitles etc. Like the Development page for example.
11:21:36 <SmatZ> fonsinchen: yeah, I was away for a week, so I didn't have a look at anything for 7 days ;)
11:21:54 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: was it a nice week away, without us? :)
11:22:12 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: you know, it would be nicer with you :-p
11:22:14 <fonsinchen> You might be interested in the new patch I posted in FS#54 then
11:22:32 <TrueBrain> gein: somehow I doubt we invented the layout :p Rubidium: what do you say?
11:22:58 <fonsinchen> It fixes all the problems mentioned before and as an additional benefit removes a lot of useless code and documents most of the obscurity
11:23:07 <gein> TrueBrain: yeah I know. Maybe a silly question to ask, but I thought I could at least be kind to ask
11:23:29 <gein> as the openttd fan I am (although this open source project has nothing at all to do with ottd)
11:23:32 <TrueBrain> gein: it is :) As mostly it makes me wonder what our license and policy regarding those requests is ...
11:24:12 <TrueBrain> gein: but the layout of that page is just a table, so there can't be any problems there :p
11:25:14 <gein> TrueBrain: I know, but it might be obvious to some, that I have been influenced. But with your blessing I'm fine
11:25:38 <TrueBrain> the icons and content I wonder about though ...
11:25:50 <Rubidium> we have a layout on the wiki?
11:26:00 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: users have contributed layouts, yes :p
11:26:05 <gein> TrueBrain: I won't borrow them anyway
11:26:36 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: under what license should the content of the wiki be?
11:27:47 <TrueBrain> fits with the GPLv2 of OpenTTD itself
11:55:13 <TrueBrain> Yexo / Rubidium: btw, FS#2703 .. nobody ever attached a backtrace?
12:01:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16809 /trunk/src/ (company_gui.cpp saveload/afterload.cpp): -Fix [FS#3021](r13096): automatic resizing of SelectCompanyLiveryWindow wasn't working as expected
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12:26:43 <DorpsGek> PeterT: niblet was last seen in #openttd 11 hours, 7 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <niblet> no
12:42:14 <Eddi|zuHause> man... these insects are a plague... this time not in my monitor
12:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but they are on the window (from outside)
12:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> like thousands of them
12:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> most of them are decorating the spiderwebs...
12:44:45 <Belugas> s'Halla Halekoom, Ammler
12:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if that's really how it's written ;)
12:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "vollständig: السلام عليكم as-salāmu ʿalaikum, „der Frieden auf euch!, Friede sei mit dir/euch!“"
12:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and it says that the greeting is to be used only between muslims
12:49:56 <SmatZ> salam is czech for sausage
12:50:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a salami, has nothing to do with each other ;)
12:51:29 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, thanks. Well.. since it translate as Allah be with you, ans since Allah is the same as God, i'd say it's a bit universal
12:51:39 <Tekky> I just noticed that a topic in the Suggestions Forum of OpenTTD has been locked by a moderator. Although I don't agree with the tone of the poster and I also don't quite understand what the poster is saying due to bis bad English, it seems a bit excessive to me to lock this thread, as he seems to have posted a valid suggestion. Here is a link to the thread: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f
12:51:40 <Belugas> for those who have a god
12:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no... "Salam" means "peace"... nothing to do with allah
12:52:07 <Eddi|zuHause> compare "Shalom" in hebrew
12:52:34 * Belugas blasts that "friend" who told me so
12:53:34 <Tekky> Oh, in my previous message, I wrote "bis bad English". I meant "his bad English" of course.
12:55:07 <Tekky> This is not the first time that I had the impression of forum moderator Hyronymus inappropriately locking threads.
12:55:10 <petern> Tekky, we don't argue with global mods
12:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause> valid, possibly... but he did not search for old threads suggesting the same thing
12:55:32 <petern> it is not in any way an original suggestion
12:58:50 <Tekky> Rubidium: Ah, thanks, I was unaware of the second thread you posted.
13:00:05 <Rubidium> and being warned (by a moderator) to not do it again and then doing it again, after reading said warning doing it again sounds like enough reason (to me) for locking
13:04:27 <Tekky> I do not believe that misbehavior of the thread poster warrants locking of the thread if this thread still contains a valid suggestion. However, now I know that his suggestion cannot be considered valid, as he himself made the same suggestion in a previous thread.
13:06:52 <DorpsGek> PeterT: niblet was last seen in #openttd 24 minutes and 52 seconds ago: <niblet> hey :)
13:07:16 <PeterT> niblet: is your patch out yet?
13:12:40 <niblet> still some bugs to fix
13:12:45 <niblet> come help me find them
13:13:49 <niblet> play on the server. experiment
13:14:27 <niblet> all 3 is running the latest version
13:14:31 <niblet> if you find any bug at all let me know
13:14:42 <PeterT> one thing, but its probably my connection
13:14:50 <PeterT> but i constantly break connection
13:14:58 <PeterT> at least once every 10 minutes
13:15:03 <Rubidium> servers running the latest version? really?
13:15:13 <niblet> "my" latest version :p
13:17:26 <PeterT> niblet, how did you make a patch, that still qualifies as 0.7.1?
13:17:45 <PeterT> can you do the same for the copy and paste patch? so you can join 0.7.x servers?
13:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> no, because that can be considered cheating
13:18:36 <SmatZ> ./configure --revision=0.7.1
13:18:40 <niblet> there is already a 0.7.1 version of the copy paste patch
13:19:51 <PeterT> really? on the forums?
13:20:26 <PeterT> hold on, i will look for it
13:21:20 <PeterT> is that the correct search
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13:22:14 <PeterT> whats the link for 0.7.1 copy and paste?
13:22:29 <planetmaker> go and look in the copy&paste thread
13:22:38 <Rubidium> planetmaker: that isn't a link
13:23:21 <planetmaker> you know... that parabola with fish for a day and food for life? ;)
13:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> in a rather wide definition it is a link
13:24:00 <Ammler> those patches are one of the reasons, coop servers use nightly.
13:24:34 <Rubidium> if you aren't shy on using NewGRFs you can desync copy-pasters quite easily
13:24:56 <PeterT> why do you guys hate cop paste so much?
13:25:04 <Tekky> Copy&paste for track layouts? How reliable is that? I guess indestructible objects such as lighthouses or these radio towers must be a nuisance when using copy&paste?
13:25:08 <Rubidium> a) people keep complaining they want it added
13:25:36 <Rubidium> b) the patch isn't finished AT ALL; the patch even contains 'continue from here with fixing X' etc.
13:25:43 <Rubidium> c) it's a maintainance hell
13:25:51 <Rubidium> d) people then also want undo
13:26:08 <niblet> but its priceless when making 8-way tracks :p
13:26:22 <Rubidium> f) the patch contained TWO desyncs, of which after long whining from me they finally fixed one
13:26:41 <Rubidium> g) if you want copy-paste, you better write an AI because you're network is boring anyways
13:26:46 <planetmaker> one desync is one too many :)
13:26:47 <Ammler> well, it mgith be helpful for mass sp game
13:26:47 <PeterT> whatever, i just want to try it out
13:27:08 <niblet> I like using it to make big 8-way main tracks late in the game
13:27:10 <planetmaker> Ammler, yeah... c&p in a h2h game.
13:27:16 <Rubidium> h) it has reported bugs, yet no-one in a long time has fixed them
13:27:20 <planetmaker> Oh... he's doing well? Just clone his network :P
13:27:24 <niblet> and some times to copy standard station layouts (except the station isnt copied atm)
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13:28:05 <niblet> btw c&p can sort of be used like an exploit
13:28:20 <niblet> I modified it to it sendt all commands instantly.. just to test
13:28:27 <niblet> and I disconnected half the ppl on the server with flooding
13:28:28 <Ammler> I would like a patch, which sends automatically a ufo to something which looks like something already built.
13:29:25 <dihedral> Ammler, make a console command ufo <tile-id>
13:29:31 <KenjiE20> "rcon nuke 0x012345" would be nice too :P
13:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: we recently discussed improving the method of deciding where an ufo should land... you are free to make a suggestion (in form of a patch) :p
13:29:49 <Tekky> Wouldn't it be best to remove indestructable objects such as lighthouses and radio towers from the game in the copy&paste patch, as they must be a nuisance when attempting to copy complex track layouts. Or does the patch already do that?
13:29:57 <Ammler> dihedral: smatz would do it, but it would desync, needs client side patch.
13:30:16 <dihedral> then nuke them with an injected docommand :-P
13:31:06 <Tekky> Because I find indestructible objects already a nuisance when not using copy&paste. :)
13:31:20 <dihedral> that is what they are there fore!
13:31:41 <niblet> tekky: you'll still run into cities, industries etc
13:32:03 <niblet> the best workaround I found was to make a "tunnel piece" that you copy whenever youre passing through any of that
13:32:59 <dihedral> tell me, you probably level all land below your tracks too ^^
13:33:14 <niblet> copy paste does that for you ;)
13:33:49 <niblet> yes its quite handy, but you cant really use it before late-game when you have a steady cash income
13:34:49 <PeterT> ok i found it, not in c+p thread, but a patch pack by bilbo has it in it
13:37:26 <PeterT> no servers with toyland landscape?
13:43:55 <dihedral> Dragoon_Jett, yay for even more servers
13:44:37 <PeterT> hey dihedral, im gonna join your server
13:44:50 <dihedral> i'd like to see how you do that ^^
13:45:08 <dihedral> seeing as it is not running
13:45:09 <PeterT> i have'nt lately, because the maps are really unplayable
13:45:22 <dihedral> you could not lately
13:46:45 <planetmaker> hm... why not running, dih?
13:47:35 <dihedral> 1. not used, which makes it 2. boring
13:48:01 <dihedral> if at least one would find bugs :-)
13:48:13 <PeterT> well, its not used because the maps (you may not have see) are unplayable
13:48:25 <PeterT> 1 town, 70 islands, 4 industries
13:48:48 <dihedral> it's called challenge
13:48:59 <planetmaker> people don't want a challange :)
13:49:48 <PeterT> i like the older maps, big flat lands, do what you want
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13:51:50 <Ammler> [15:48] <dihedral> if at least one would find bugs <-- yeah, damn trunk is too stable lately ;-)
13:54:08 <dihedral> Ammler, working != stable
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13:58:57 <dragonhorseboy> just asking but any of you know if germany railroads had any standard gauge mallets? (I know they had some NG 0-6-6-0's etc but still)
13:59:48 <dragonhorseboy> dihedral did you ever try play with that user-created ttdx map that was pretty much almost all cities except for some green land around edge of map with some industries there? I forgot name but I recall someone said it was created with a buggy build of ttdx
13:59:54 <planetmaker> It's not an airport-glitch, Ammler
14:00:02 <planetmaker> it's rather a "build on slopes" glitch
14:00:12 <planetmaker> (just learnt it recently :P )
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14:00:59 <dragonhorseboy> ammler btw I tried basecost grf a bit more with different mixes of grfs and it looks like basecost really does have buggy terraform prices even with no track/train grfs loaded. oh well it was a good try I guess :-) (or in this case with IS2-beta3 build that I only got anyhow)
14:01:16 <dragonhorseboy> but like I was saying..the airport costs all works just as they should
14:01:50 <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: check the source of that grf
14:02:25 <dragonhorseboy> when I feel like it perhaps heh .. a bit busy working on various small projects now (not to mention trying to decide on who to pick for domain name registar too)
14:02:33 <Ammler> I don't think, it depense much on different grf sets, except av8 and planeset.
14:02:54 <Ammler> and there is nothing about terraform.
14:03:48 <dragonhorseboy> ammler.. the fifth parameter did say so
14:03:54 <Ammler> but of course, it depense on the order you load the grfs
14:04:28 <dragonhorseboy> well basecost was always at the bottommost (if its on top it seem to act like all parameters are ignored)
14:04:35 <dihedral> dragonhorseboy, nice idea
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14:05:18 <dragonhorseboy> dihedral..yeah and one thought that came up before but I still have to try it was to play that one particular map with either japanset or 2cc+metro because both sets introduce high capacity commuter trains which would be perfect :p
14:05:47 <dragonhorseboy> I always found that map too difficult to play with the usual (alak ttdx) trains..even the asiastar was too slow and insufficent-seating
14:06:16 <dihedral> grf's are set in save games
14:06:26 <dihedral> and before you say something: scenarios are savegames
14:06:54 <dragonhorseboy> there's nothing stopping sending it through scenario editor again with revised grf list .. just as long as its only for vehicle-related grfs
14:07:08 <dihedral> dragonhorseboy, it's not supported?
14:07:09 <dragonhorseboy> I do certainlly NOT want to think of trying to force-load ttrs3 and hoping it doesn't crash.
14:07:12 <dihedral> you just do not do that!
14:07:22 <dragonhorseboy> dihedral..I've done it many times
14:07:42 <dihedral> it did not say it's not possible
14:07:59 <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: how do you change basecosts?
14:08:01 <dragonhorseboy> especially for the forum scenarios that seem to keep missing useable grfs (seriously...you want ME to play that 1930 scenario with zero trains???)
14:08:42 <dragonhorseboy> ammler..at the newgrf window then clicked the 'save' button in lower-right and close it then make a new scenario and lay some random rails&bridges :)
14:09:56 <Ammler> well, that isn't a change, that is new game.
14:10:41 <Ammler> I have no idea anymore, if it still works like 2 years ago.
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14:11:39 <dragonhorseboy> well it would had been useful to make planes more reasonably priced (rather than being too cheap that you earn millions in a year) but oh well .. for till now I usually play with planes:0
14:12:56 <dragonhorseboy> there is one thing I do like in term of gameplay tho .. japanset introduces yearly expense for any wagons .. sounds more relastic to me. still have to keep paying maintenance on the coaches even if very few passengers take your train.
14:14:31 <dragonhorseboy> hmm say have anyone seen extspotter lately?
14:14:59 <PeterT> hes on gameday still i think
14:15:33 <dragonhorseboy> was wondering because he seem to have some really bad lag problem that he couldn't stay on for long on mega's IS server. and haven't seen him again ever since saturday
14:15:53 <PeterT> do you want to talk to him?
14:16:04 <Ammler> yes, it is still possible to change basecosts on a running game
14:16:07 <dragonhorseboy> may see him again when (and if) mega starts another server again
14:16:21 <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: I guess, you just aren't aware of, when it changes.
14:16:35 <Ammler> so you might be a bit confused.
14:18:04 <dragonhorseboy> ammler...no? I set the terraform parameter to 6 for one scenario and let it run for a month then lay one rail on a slope. quit game and repeat with 14 instead... then again with 255. and in all three it was still the same one single absurb high pricetag for the one rail-on-slope compared to that all other costs did change accordingly
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14:18:23 <dragonhorseboy> as soon as I remove basecost the terraform price sudden falls back to the normal default one
14:19:00 <Ammler> you can't change the costs just by "apply newgrf"
14:19:58 <Ammler> well, some are possible, you see that in the difficulty settings GUI
14:20:17 <Ammler> those which are changeable there, are also changeable with the GRF ingame
14:20:38 <Ammler> those which are "greyed out" needs the way through scenario editor.
14:22:39 <Ammler> but be warned, there is a new (mis)feature in the editor, it does delete all companies, afaik. (never used it anymore)
14:30:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16810 /trunk/Makefile.lang.in: -Fix (r16115): strgen didn't get rebuild when table/strgen_tables.h was changed.
14:31:23 <Ammler> he, here, it doesn't delete the company
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14:40:37 <dragonhorseboy> ammler...so are you saying basecost can't effect terraform price in a new scenario but only when via scenario editor or ?
14:41:35 <Ammler> yes, after "save" in the difficutly gui
14:42:22 <Ammler> running costs can, propably.
14:42:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16811 /trunk/src/ (lang/korean.txt strings.cpp table/strgen_tables.h): -Change: introduce a plural 'rule' for Korean
14:50:39 <dragonhorseboy> hmm you know what ammler...I take everything back.. terraform prices actually WORKS after making a custom scenario
14:50:55 <dragonhorseboy> hm..they need to add that footnote to the basecost.grf site on openttdcoop :)
14:52:52 <Rubidium> bah... I was off by 1 hour 30 minuted and 38 seconds for my 2 millionth bananas download estimate
14:54:04 <dragonhorseboy> I would had downloaded more from there except for that a lot of it is missing compared to just downloading the one single openttdcoop grf package instead
14:54:39 <Rubidium> and the 2 millionth download was the AI "Rondje om de kerk"
14:54:39 <Ammler> I was wondering 2days after uploading opengfx alpha5, already 1000 downloads
14:59:51 <dragonhorseboy> thanks a lot ammler now that finally "works" it for me here .. I'll have to decide my grf list again since I can put planes back in ;)
15:02:30 <PeterT> why cant i download the "choo choo" AI, in game?
15:02:45 <PeterT> it says its uploaded on bananas.openttd.org
15:02:45 <Noldo> it's not uploaded to bananas?
15:03:49 <Rubidium> PeterT: because you don't have a new enough version?
15:04:09 <PeterT> i will then use the latest nightly
15:04:33 <PeterT> hmmm, thanks, Rubidium
15:05:08 <PeterT> if i download Choo Choo AI in the nightly, can i play in an older version?
15:05:42 <Rubidium> usually not being able to download means that the AI author has decided that it's incompatible with that version
15:07:38 <PeterT> I just realized that I love TerraGenesis
15:07:49 <PeterT> I realized it after I saw Original
15:14:49 <PeterT> niblet: how are you doing with the patch?
15:15:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16812 /extra/strgen/Makefile: [strgen] -Fix (r16115): strgen didn't get rebuild when table/strgen_tables.h was changed
15:15:29 <Rubidium> PeterT: each time asking niblet causes him to waste time reading and possibly answering your question, thus delaying whatever you are waiting for
15:16:29 <PeterT> Rubidium: Currently, niblet is testing his patch on the servers, waiting for bugs. Me asking him how he's doing doesn't distract him from looking for bugs, because there aren't any
15:16:59 <LadyHawk> or maybe there are but he's just not found them yet!
15:17:04 <dihedral> PeterT, there are no bugs??
15:17:15 <Rubidium> LadyHawk: then they still are there
15:17:39 <PeterT> dihedral: or not at the current moment
15:17:43 <dihedral> yes there are, you just dont know of them ^^
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15:18:03 <PeterT> here, dihedral, go on any of the "Akoz's" servers, and if you find a bug, tell niblet
15:18:29 <dihedral> wait - are those goal servers?
15:18:43 <dihedral> hehe - i can stall the entire server :-P
15:19:17 <Rubidium> I usually rather see the diff as it's more clear to see whether there're bugs
15:19:19 <PeterT> how can you stall? 1000 boats?
15:19:38 <dihedral> only need to join as spec
15:19:39 <PeterT> He hasn't uploaded the diff yet, I don't think
15:19:48 <dihedral> the diff is best, yes
15:19:55 <dihedral> PeterT, trade secret
15:20:40 <PeterT> how do you do private messages?
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15:21:43 <PeterT> why do i have to open mozilla firefox when you could just tell me
15:21:51 <dihedral> and i do not want private messages if you dont mind
15:22:04 <dihedral> because that will teach you how to find information yourself next time
15:22:16 <Rubidium> PeterT: because feeding you does mean we have to keep feeding you as you can't feed yourself
15:22:48 <Rubidium> you said ignore, right?
15:23:20 <dihedral> Rubidium, sometimes babies also cry if they need their nappies changed :-P
15:25:28 <PeterT> There isn't a page on HP
15:26:37 <PeterT> Rubidium: is there a formula for power? a certain number of HP for a certain weight?
15:26:57 <PeterT> to figure out how many locos to x number of wagons
15:27:00 <dragonhorseboy> the real hp is the engine itself
15:27:11 <dragonhorseboy> eg a EMD 645-C etc
15:27:29 <PeterT> so is two SH30s enough for 8 coal wagons, fully loaded?
15:27:42 <PeterT> which would be 7,200 HP
15:27:53 <petern> one is more than enough
15:28:24 <planetmaker> PeterT, some things are way easier tried out than asked...
15:29:15 <PeterT> so then what is ok to ask?!
15:30:02 <planetmaker> my bets are on... peter :P
15:30:16 <dragonhorseboy> dihedral..and don't forget there's a third Peter (don't think he appears on irc tho) on ottd multiplayer too
15:30:29 <dragonhorseboy> I've seen him a few times on jonty's server
15:32:17 <PeterT> oh yes, "Peter1138 [HU]" developer of TTDpatch, or openttd, or something like that
15:32:21 <Rubidium> who cares about other peters? There's only one master peter
15:33:36 <Rubidium> /msg chanserv info #openttd
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15:47:31 <dihedral> "No farmer ever plowed a field by turning it over in his mind." <- i like that ^^
15:58:23 <planetmaker> hm... the "X" as the close button got replaced by ...
16:00:10 <planetmaker> String too long and replaced by ...
16:00:16 <planetmaker> I postthe image in a FS entry
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16:01:15 <planetmaker> posted. And forgot to set version not to 0.7.1 :)
16:02:09 <Rubidium> a) the X is too wide
16:02:21 <Rubidium> b) does this happen in the rail toolbar too?
16:02:40 <dihedral> ./configure --with-ccache --without-osx-sysroot
16:02:40 <dihedral> checking OSX sysroot... no (use system default)
16:02:40 <dihedral> I couldn't detect any XCode >= 2.5 on your system
16:02:40 <dihedral> please install/upgrade your XCode
16:02:41 <petern> does it happen with ttd graphics instead of opengfx?
16:02:42 <planetmaker> but let me check rail toolbar specifically
16:02:55 <planetmaker> dihedral, you didn't compile for long, eh ?
16:03:12 <dihedral> at least not on the mac
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16:03:23 <planetmaker> you need to revert one commit. I can tell you which... in half an hour or so when I'm home.
16:03:29 <Chruker> heh, here I through drive-through bus stations would be better than the terminus stations, but with terminus stations the city can handle nearly double the amount of busses, since they are less prone to blocking roads.
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16:04:04 <petern> (that question was for planetmaker, of course)
16:04:28 <Rubidium> planetmaker: r16796, right?
16:04:40 <planetmaker> Rubidium, r16800 was what I used
16:04:51 *** tux_mark_5 has joined #openttd
16:04:58 <planetmaker> that's what this machine built at 5am for me :)
16:05:03 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I'm talking about the commit you need to revert
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16:05:43 <planetmaker> Rubidium... I meant that "revert" wrt to dihedrals compile problem
16:05:44 <dihedral> i checked out a tag btw
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16:06:00 <dragonhorseboy> chruker...the problem is with not using the drive-through station from both entry ends.
16:06:03 <planetmaker> but I would very much guess so.
16:06:33 <petern> i guess it doesn't happen with ttd graphics so the bug is invalid
16:06:47 <dragonhorseboy> the deadend station can't even run two buses at once..no..second one always has to wait for first one to clear the roadway inside station before it can even enter/exit
16:07:16 <dragonhorseboy> (and neverminding some newer grfs also now refuse to allow longer vehicles to not use drive-thru's
16:07:25 <planetmaker> your guess is right, petern ... :(
16:07:57 <planetmaker> dihedral, no, I don't think
16:09:36 <planetmaker> petern, but if the "X" is a string - shouldn't then the widget adjust the size to the string?
16:09:47 <Rubidium> planetmaker: ofcourse... ONCE IMPLEMENTED!
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16:10:04 <Rubidium> which is WHY I asked you whether it happened for the rail toolbar
16:10:31 <planetmaker> it doesn't happen there, Rubidium
16:10:59 <Rubidium> so it's basically a dupe of FS#1905
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16:12:55 <planetmaker> ... maybe. A quick scan does't really tell me what exactly that is about except "OO windows"
16:14:17 <Rubidium> it's basically the whole 'rewrite GUI' to scale thyself tracker issue
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16:15:23 <Rubidium> although there're more bugs that will be fixed once FS#1905 is done
16:15:46 <planetmaker> Hm... so... switching back to the original graphics is for me not really a choice
16:15:53 <planetmaker> @kick PeterT (wrong channel!)
16:16:20 <PeterT> no, not wrong channel, wrong command
16:16:22 <planetmaker> Basically then it would need a different font(size) for the X
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16:16:34 <PeterT> how do i find the last change in the newest version?
16:16:42 <planetmaker> But IMO it cannot be considered a bug of OpenGFX to have a different X than TTD
16:17:06 <petern> the ottd gui has always been a fixed size
16:17:15 <planetmaker> petern, honestly? Then it would be a cheap clone and a copyright infrindgement
16:17:32 <dihedral> PeterT, vcs.openttd.org ^^
16:18:33 <PeterT> ooh, trailer for Final Destination 4 came out :)
16:22:19 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Error: me is not in #openttd.
16:22:28 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Error: you is not in #openttd.
16:22:52 <planetmaker> hm... some other question: didn't 'd' once skip the current order in the order overview window?
16:23:20 <DorpsGek> dihedral: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 1 hour, 1 minute, and 52 seconds ago: <Yexo> in that case that's likely, as I said, I'm not sure on the exact numbers
16:24:45 <Rubidium> planetmaker: guess someone thought dynamite is more important
16:25:00 <Rubidium> shows how... uhm... well used it was
16:26:06 <Rubidium> anyhow, don't expect a quick fix for FS#3033
16:26:40 <planetmaker> After all a fix is somewhere in the pipe :)
16:32:31 <DorpsGek> LadyHawk: seen [<channel>] <nick>
16:33:47 * LadyHawk goes and buys DorpsGek some flowers and a bucket of oil
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16:34:44 <dihedral> LadyHawk, you put them in water!
16:35:13 <LadyHawk> no the oil is to keep him run smoothly
16:35:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16813 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: make IsEngineCountable() member of Vehicle
16:37:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16814 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make IsNormalAircraft() member of Aircraft
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16:41:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16815 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: reduce the toolbar's priority for handling keypresses from most important to least important, so e.g. the order windows' 'd' skips to the next order
16:43:14 <planetmaker> \o/ @ Rubidium :)
16:43:26 <planetmaker> keyboard usage became more comfortable again :)
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17:46:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16816 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
17:46:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: galician - 229 changes by Condex
17:46:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof
17:46:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 2 changes by darkttd
17:46:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 18 changes by mysteq
17:46:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 10 changes by Lone_Wolf
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18:21:29 <Nite_Owl> Hello dihedral & PeterT
18:23:14 <PeterT> On tt-forums is there a way to filter out only patchpacks of 0.7.x, i search that and it gives me all this crap
18:24:32 <dihedral> 206 clients - wow, there are more than usual :-P
18:24:33 <Nite_Owl> refine what you search for
18:24:44 <Belugas> what more to expect... patchpack....
18:25:39 <dihedral> by looking at the advanced search page, and acting according to the options given
18:26:12 <dihedral> key word (though not mentioned in the above) is *read* ^^
18:26:20 <frosch123> PeterT: how old is 0.7.x? can you manually search the last 5 pages of development and general forum?
18:27:03 <dihedral> or look at all the patchpacks and list the included patches yourself
18:27:05 <PeterT> thats what i searched, refined to development forum
18:27:22 <PeterT> it brings me cargodest?
18:28:20 <dihedral> perhaps the word patchpack is mentioned in those threads dear sir
18:28:55 <Belugas> patchpack on 0.7.x are passe Turn to the future! Trunk!
18:29:03 <Belugas> and... no patchpack...
18:29:05 <dihedral> if i am not mistaken there is an option to perhaps only search titles, patck pack threads usually have the word 'pack' in the title
18:29:27 <Nite_Owl> try maybe 'patchpack' in the thread title only
18:30:14 <dihedral> well - it's not dark out yet, so your best senses are still not very active :-D
18:30:46 <dihedral> Belugas, make a new thread: tpp for trunk-patch-pack :-D
18:30:50 <frosch123> hmm, ok, everyone knows about wagonchains without an engine in the depot, right? what do you think does the number behind it mean? :p
18:31:53 <frosch123> (looking at the source is cheating btw.)
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18:32:08 <dihedral> what is it for frosch123
18:32:08 <Rubidium> number of wagons / 2 ?
18:32:29 <Rubidium> regardless of the size of the wagon
18:32:38 <frosch123> it is number of vehicles including articulated parts
18:32:48 <dihedral> PeterT, are you constantly being banned somewhere and need to change your ip is your ISP that crappy? :-P
18:33:21 <SmatZ> PeterT just registered :)
18:33:27 <PeterT> no, just a little discon
18:33:39 <dihedral> you seem to get a few of those :-P
18:33:46 <planetmaker> frosch123: I assume it's the number in half tiles
18:33:59 <Nite_Owl> well he is with Comcast
18:34:04 <frosch123> planetmaker: yes, for chains with a frontengine, but not for wagonchains
18:34:09 <SmatZ> frosch123: length of train consis in half-tiles
18:34:19 <planetmaker> uhm... why should it be different?
18:34:38 <Nite_Owl> I am quite familiar with Comcast mself
18:34:52 <PeterT> i did just register, how'd you know?
18:34:53 <planetmaker> what's a "train consist" as opposed to "# wagons"?
18:35:09 <SmatZ> PeterT: you were asking at #oftc :)
18:35:11 <frosch123> so, what shall it show? number of vehicles (not counting articulated parts, but what about dualheaded?) or just the length as for usual trains?
18:35:26 <SmatZ> planetmaker: wagons can be shorter than half-tile
18:35:27 <Rubidium> hmm, so it is what I thought, but not divided by 2
18:35:41 <planetmaker> SmatZ: yes, I know that.
18:35:47 <frosch123> Rubidium: hehe, true :)
18:35:55 <SmatZ> planetmaker: so that's the difference :)
18:36:01 <planetmaker> frosch123: the information on the actual length is - at least for me - the most important one
18:36:17 <planetmaker> as that is important for loading times. I must not get longer than my platforms are
18:36:23 <PeterT> whats the secret of patchers making patch packs compatible to ottd online servers?
18:36:23 * SmatZ thinks the same as planetmaker... for example to know how long the station has to be
18:36:23 <frosch123> for trains yes, but for wagons?
18:36:47 <SmatZ> frosch123: why should it differ for wagons?
18:36:53 <planetmaker> frosch123: ... uhm... I'm confused
18:37:14 <planetmaker> you mean, it should differ as an engine can shorten a wagon?
18:37:32 <SmatZ> [20:34:26] <frosch123> SmatZ: dito :) <=== ah, I got it wrong :)
18:37:35 <frosch123> because I am more intested in attaching a number of wagons elsewhere, than guessing the length when I click somewhere in the middle
18:38:01 <dihedral> PeterT, patchers dont make the patchpacks usually
18:38:35 <dihedral> and there are client side patches, server side patches, and patches that need to edit both ends
18:38:36 <planetmaker> frosch123: I usually find anything longer than what I see too much hassle.
18:38:48 <planetmaker> I see the wagons and buy new till the length fits :P
18:39:11 <PeterT> oh, so how do they put patches on eachother to make a patchpack, then make it compatibile with 0.7.x?
18:39:16 <frosch123> and if you shorten trains? do you sell the wagons or do you keep them for reattaching them later?
18:39:28 <dihedral> the patchpack maintainer does that
18:39:42 <planetmaker> They only mess up, when I want to buy a new train
18:39:50 <dihedral> you grap the source of 0.7.whateverversion and apply patch after patch, resolve any ocuring conflicts
18:39:52 <SmatZ> frosch123: it seems it's number of wagons for free wagon chains (after running OTTD)
18:39:55 <planetmaker> as then the new wagons I buy are not attached where I want them
18:40:13 <frosch123> SmatZ: yes, but it also counts articulated parts, which is silly
18:40:17 <PeterT> dihedral: sounds easy, except for the conflicts
18:40:31 <PeterT> what kind of conflicts, things that require programming knowledge?
18:40:36 <planetmaker> dihedral: you're showing an ease of patching... it could be interpreted as purpose-full misleading :)
18:40:53 <dihedral> it's not missleading, that is what you need to do
18:40:58 <SmatZ> frosch123: without looking at the source, I think it would be simplest to show length of consist the same way as it's done for trains
18:41:07 <planetmaker> frosch123: so the difference is (now): if a wagon has two articulated part, it's now counted as two?
18:41:10 <KenjiE20> that require programming knowledge? <-- that would sort of be implied by patching code surely?
18:41:14 <dihedral> PeterT, conflict in this case means, 2 patches try to edit the same piece of code
18:41:29 <PeterT> and you would resolve that how?
18:41:30 <dihedral> so you need to understand what the patches you are applying want to do, and the original piece of code
18:41:30 <SmatZ> except... maybe you don't have valid tcache.cached_total_length (or how is that called)
18:42:07 <frosch123> [20:42] <planetmaker> frosch123: so the difference is (now): if a wagon has two articulated part, it's now counted as two? <- yes, and if you have such a weird CSD engine with 8 parts which is not at front it counts as 8
18:42:21 <dihedral> people do try over and over again though
18:42:26 <planetmaker> SmatZ: frosch123: It would IMO be completely mis-leading to users, if the number shown would be two different things for a chain of wagons with and without engine.
18:42:36 <planetmaker> That's something which... would be hard to communicate IMO
18:42:43 <frosch123> well, you can always remove the number :p
18:42:59 <DorpsGek> dihedral: Error: number is not in #openttd.
18:43:07 <dihedral> frosch123, failed :-D
18:43:13 <PeterT> ok, so i have bilbo's patchpack, and i want to apply another patch onto it
18:43:14 <SmatZ> planetmaker: it seems it works this way now :-p
18:43:24 <SmatZ> I agree it's best to behave the same way in all cases
18:43:42 <planetmaker> SmatZ: well... I usually don't care about wagon-only chains. They're no use.
18:43:51 <dihedral> PeterT, there is a thread in the forums, i suggest you read it + google will give you more details
18:43:59 <dihedral> it is not openttd specific
18:44:01 <planetmaker> I cannot even use them to tell an engine to go to the depot and use those wagons instead of the one it has now
18:44:13 <PeterT> are you talking about how to apply patch/diff file?
18:44:20 <planetmaker> That's the only thing where I can imagine it being usable.
18:44:25 <frosch123> [20:44] <planetmaker> SmatZ: well... I usually don't care about wagon-only chains. They're no use. <- maybe you should try to play more like a hamster, keeping full loaded wagons in the depot for hard times?
18:44:53 <dihedral> that is a lovely idea :-D
18:45:21 <dihedral> that was the most amusing line to gameplay i have read in a long time
18:45:35 <planetmaker> Then we need new graphics for depots: a grass pile where under the wagons are hidden... :P
18:46:32 <dihedral> planetmaker, a hampster wheel :-P
18:46:53 <PeterT> can i ask one more thing
18:47:19 <Nite_Owl> depots with a water bottle on one side
18:47:50 <planetmaker> well... given the fact that I don't use the number after wagons... I don't mind its meaning too much.
18:47:53 <dihedral> "100.000 £ for rotten cows"
18:48:18 <planetmaker> But basically that not-using comes from the fact that usually 5 wagons or so are shown and it is hard to then drag 5 from a chain of 15
18:48:26 <planetmaker> Given you don't resize that window before doing so.
18:48:38 <planetmaker> Thus I usually just sell for lazyness reasons
18:49:02 <Nite_Owl> but I have to agree that the number after a consist in a depot should be train length in tiles
18:49:26 <Nite_Owl> including any engines
18:50:01 <KenjiE20> maybe he's still typing
18:50:24 <dihedral> he'll get an excess flood kick :-P
18:50:41 <PeterT> if a patch again, do i need to redownload the source code? or can i patch right over what i downloaded from bilbo (i assume in patching you always pushed to do harder, so i might as well download source)
18:51:04 <KenjiE20> nearly lost my cup of tea over the screen :P
18:51:17 <Nite_Owl> as far as darkness is concerned dihedral it is even further away here than it is there
18:51:37 <dihedral> wow - that did take you a long time :-D
18:51:44 <dihedral> just proves my point though :-P
18:52:33 <PeterT> no, i started to type much later
18:52:39 <PeterT> im doing 3 different things
18:52:50 <Nite_Owl> I have 3 conversations going on at once so I loose track of them on occasion
18:53:44 <Nite_Owl> Now I am really confused
18:53:54 <PeterT> <Nite_Owl> I have 3 conversations going on at once so I loose track of them on occasion
18:54:03 <PeterT> exactly, as in, me too
18:54:29 <Nite_Owl> Ah-ha - I get it now
18:54:53 <PeterT> btw, i quit from time to time because my xchat.exe is corrupted
18:55:02 <PeterT> because of ....certain reasons......
18:55:45 <SmatZ> visiting porn sites and infecting your computer?
18:57:50 <planetmaker> why do you run illegal software?
18:58:17 <dihedral> xchat for windows is commercial KenjiE20
18:58:27 <KenjiE20> I know, but YChat isn't
18:59:13 <PeterT> i need a chatting service, mininova got me it
18:59:18 <Nite_Owl> Firefox + Chatzilla - not the best but it works well enough
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18:59:49 <KenjiE20> weechat, once the next version is stable for me :)
18:59:54 <PeterT> but the whole point of IRC was not to open firefox
19:00:01 <PeterT> because to get to #ottdcoop
19:00:11 <PeterT> i had to go to openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC
19:00:44 <KenjiE20> 'had' we didn't put a gun to your head did we?
19:00:50 * KenjiE20 looks at planetmaker
19:01:13 <planetmaker> well... we want to know who's online on our server
19:01:20 <PeterT> planetmaker look at my chats
19:01:55 <planetmaker> but if you know the channel... you don't need a browser.
19:02:05 <planetmaker> But I wonder why one wouldn't have a browser running
19:02:26 <planetmaker> (except in mission critical systems without internet access)
19:03:31 <Nite_Owl> exactly - chat while browsing is fairly standard no
19:04:19 <PeterT> planetmake: do you have RDM software of any kind?
19:04:49 <PeterT> remote desktop manager
19:05:08 <PeterT> no, i mean to look at MY computer
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19:05:43 <petern> that's like dos, right?
19:05:51 <PeterT> some things are easier to be shown then read
19:06:10 <PeterT> could you get www.teamviewer.com and look at my computer please?
19:10:17 <KenjiE20> I think what dihedral meant was; "For what possible reason would he want to?"
19:10:21 <dihedral> yeah, eh... i think i know planetmaker better than you do - i'd still not give him a session to my screen :-P
19:10:49 <dihedral> + yeah - giving you private support on how to patch over bilbos patch pack ? :-D
19:11:45 <PeterT> planetmaker, dont do anything bad
19:12:21 <KenjiE20> heh, that's tempting fate :)
19:12:45 <dihedral> they dont even have a linux client lol
19:12:55 <PeterT> i will never get linux
19:12:56 <frosch123> PeterT: be careful, he might make a planet
19:13:08 <Hirundo> planetmaker: the magic words on windows are 'format c:'
19:13:36 <planetmaker> I know. I even have it running now on windows myself :P
19:13:47 <dihedral> Hirundo, just deleting ntldr is more fun :-D
19:13:59 <planetmaker> I don't know the software and won't compromise this, my laptop computer :)
19:13:59 <PeterT> frosch123: where do you get that?
19:14:59 <Forked> echo are you cool? Y/N
19:15:08 <Tefad> in linux you can aggrivate with dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/{hd[a-z],sd[a-z]} (choosing one of course)
19:15:26 <Tefad> i mean /dev/urandom.. random is slowww
19:15:26 <KenjiE20> or wildcard for added madness
19:15:27 <dihedral> Tefad, /dev/null or /dev/zero ?
19:15:38 <Tefad> zero would work but would be easy to spot
19:15:46 <Tefad> null is write only iirc
19:15:53 <dihedral> null is not write only ^^
19:15:56 <Tefad> urandom and zero are pretty quick
19:16:03 <Tefad> null has no bytes though
19:16:06 <dihedral> but zero gives you proper \0
19:16:09 <Tefad> so you can't really read it
19:16:27 <dihedral> you dont have to read it :-P
19:16:34 <Tefad> you do if you want to write it
19:16:36 <dihedral> and urandom is slow iirc
19:16:39 <SmatZ> it's easier to revive data overwritten by zeros than by random I guess
19:16:48 <Tefad> urandom is not nearly as slow as random
19:16:57 <KenjiE20> so zero first then random :)
19:17:00 <dihedral> ah - i always confuse the two :-P
19:17:27 <dihedral> cat /dev/urandom /dev/kmem #is also a bunch of fun
19:17:38 <dihedral> cat /dev/urandom > /dev/kmem
19:19:32 <dihedral> well, PeterT, i must congratulate you
19:19:57 <dihedral> you are the first person i actually saw, offering access to your computer to someone you have never met in your life :-D
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19:21:35 <dihedral> niblet: i can stall one of your goal servers :-P
19:21:50 <Belugas> dihedral... you are a bit blind...
19:22:13 <Belugas> [15:19] <dihedral> you are the first person i actually saw, offering access to your computer to someone you have never met in your life :-D
19:22:50 <dihedral> i was not taking ssh into account :-P
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19:27:22 <SmatZ> stay with us, tux_mark_5
19:27:52 <tux_mark_5> i'm tweaking my xorg.conf
19:31:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r16817 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp train_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h): -Codechange: Scroll depots horizontally in pixels instead of 1/8 vehicle length.
19:32:49 <dpaanlka> Hey, I'm pretty inexperienced at compiling so I have a question.
19:33:13 <dpaanlka> I follow the instructions on the OpenTTD wiki but I keep getting compile errors
19:33:15 <dpaanlka> [PowerPC] Linking openttd
19:33:16 <dpaanlka> powerpc-apple-darwin9-g++-4.0.1: /usr/X11/lib/libfontconfig.a: No such file or directory
19:33:16 <dpaanlka> powerpc-apple-darwin9-g++-4.0.1: /usr/X11/lib/libfreetype.a: No such file or directory
19:33:16 <dpaanlka> make[1]: *** [openttd] Error 1
19:34:12 <Rubidium> dpaanlka: are you compiling on OSX?
19:34:39 <dihedral> [21:33] <dpaanlka> [PowerPC] Linking openttd
19:34:43 <Rubidium> odd, that usually doesn't have fontconfig
19:34:46 <dihedral> yeah - never said a thing
19:34:52 <dpaanlka> What should I try and do?
19:34:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r16818 /trunk/src/train_gui.cpp: -Feature(ette): Highlight whole articulated vehicles in traindepot instead of only the first part.
19:34:59 <dpaanlka> It does the same thing later on with Intel errors.
19:35:06 <dpaanlka> (Because I am compiling Unviersal binary)
19:36:55 <dpaanlka> Do I need to update something or change a configuration somewhere?
19:36:55 <Rubidium> I think you're missing the static libraries of fontconfig/freetype
19:37:31 <Rubidium> try configuring --without-fontconfig --without-freetype
19:38:19 <Rubidium> that will compile without those, though depending on whether you want to support non-NewGRF fonts you need to find the location of the static freetype library
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19:39:28 <dpaanlka> Will try that now...
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19:40:51 <dpaanlka> [SRC] Linking openttd
19:40:51 <dpaanlka> "_iconv", referenced from:
19:40:52 <dpaanlka> convert_tofrom_fs(void*, char const*)in unix.o
19:40:52 <dpaanlka> convert_tofrom_fs(void*, char const*)in unix.o
19:40:52 <dpaanlka> "_iconv_open", referenced from:
19:40:53 <dpaanlka> FS2OTTD(char const*)in unix.o
19:40:54 <dpaanlka> OTTD2FS(char const*)in unix.o
19:40:54 <dpaanlka> ld: symbol(s) not found
19:40:56 <dpaanlka> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
19:40:56 <dpaanlka> make[1]: *** [openttd] Error 1
19:40:58 <dpaanlka> make: *** [all] Error 2
19:41:21 <Belugas> yeah... you woke me up...
19:42:13 <SmatZ> dpaanlka: try configure --without-iconv --without-icu
19:42:25 <dpaanlka> in addition to the without freetype mentioned above?
19:42:31 <Rubidium> iconv is quite important for OSX
19:42:42 <Rubidium> what version of OSX are you using?
19:42:45 <SmatZ> maybe you have generally problems with searching your libraries
19:43:02 <Belugas> try compile --without-openttd-sources
19:43:19 <Rubidium> dpaanlka: and what xcode version?
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19:44:58 <Rubidium> a non-universal binary works fine?
19:45:45 <Rubidium> for some reason it's trying to link with a wrong iconv (I think)
19:46:01 <Rubidium> though that's only suspicion
19:46:28 <dpaanlka> This computer originally had 10.4.x and whatever associated version of Xcode
19:46:46 <dpaanlka> Is it possible a problem could have been introduced when upgrading over the past two years?
19:47:16 <Rubidium> although if I remember correctly it links with OSX's own iconv, which should always be there
19:47:40 <Rubidium> dpaanlka: upgrading OSX and Xcode? Possibly
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19:48:46 <Rubidium> though my only experience with OSX is cross compiling for OSX, i.e. create a OSX binary on linux; I don't own or have access to OSX
19:53:54 <dpaanlka> maybe i'll just install xcode on another computer that has a fresh install of Leopard
19:53:58 <dpaanlka> Xcode is so damn big thoug...
19:54:42 <DorpsGek> Hirundo: Alberth was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 0 hours, 17 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <Alberth> I can compute the size, but I cannot inject the resize step in the computation easily
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20:28:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r16819 /trunk/src/train_gui.cpp: -Fix (r4868): Use the palette of the vehicle being drawn instead of the one of the front vehicle.
20:31:24 <planetmaker> that's a long-lurking bug, too :)
20:32:09 <Nite_Owl> so what was the final decision on the depot numbers - if any
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20:32:40 <frosch123> though iirc most said to do the same as for usual trains
20:34:23 <Nite_Owl> car number plus engines and/or tenders & caboose
20:35:03 <frosch123> no, length in halftiles
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20:35:45 <Ammler> isn't it that already?
20:36:34 <Nite_Owl> car number plus engines and/or tenders & caboose - is what it is now I believe
20:36:34 <Ammler> I guess, train length number in the depot view.
20:38:06 <Nite_Owl> Wow - I am totally lost - is it not tile number now]
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20:46:13 <SmatZ> yay, finished the lost vikings!
20:49:31 <Nite_Owl> so it is currently number of cars including engines etc. according to my test
20:51:01 <Nite_Owl> rounded off for smaller cars as well
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21:07:42 <PeterT> planetmaker had to sleep
21:07:52 <PeterT> theres so many tedious things in patching
22:07:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16820 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange: remove unused parameter in HandleCloneVehClick()
22:16:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> hm... some other question: didn't 'd' once skip the current order in the order overview window? <- i always hated that... every time i had an order window open, the dynamite tool stopped working
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22:33:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16821 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify the naming of type::UpdateVirtCoord and UpdateAll[Type]VirtCoords.
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22:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> But basically that not-using comes from the fact that usually 5 wagons or so are shown and it is hard to then drag 5 from a chain of 15 <- that one is easily solved, you just drag n-5 into a second chain, and then can drag the 5er chain onto the engine
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22:48:59 <Chruker> HAve there ever been any contact between the openttd+ttdpatch and the original publisher?
22:49:59 <Rubidium> depends on what 'the original publisher' entails
22:50:28 <Eddi|zuHause> there have been contact attempts, but they were not very fruitful
22:50:41 <Chruker> mr. CS, his company/publisher or whoever still has the copyright
22:51:17 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly... one says the other one has the copyright, and the other one says it's to expensive to actually find out whether they have the copyright
22:51:31 <Rubidium> CS yes, the publisher has been merged/resold several times and no-one wants to tell who has the copyright
22:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and even if they knew they had the copyright, there is not a big chance they would actually give it up
22:58:56 * Chruker ponders making a Public Domain Software Foundation which could buy copyrights to good old stuff... now I just need some millions/billions :-)
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23:07:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16822 /trunk/config.lib: -Cleanup: remove the "a PPC bool is four bytes in C++ so it needs to be that big in C too" hack
23:08:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16823 /trunk/config.lib: -Cleanup: use cxx_host instead of cc_host where possible; cc_host is there only for working around a few stupid compilers.
23:12:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16824 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix [FS#2989] (r16294): Mac OS X 10.4 with Xcode 2.5 wouldn't be detected as having Xcode 2.5 or newer. Based on a patch by ln.
23:15:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16825 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: unify dirtying when updating the viewport signs.
23:16:35 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: ln* could be lneckel (23 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 35 minutes, and 15 seconds ago), ln- (24 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 52 minutes, and 56 seconds ago), ln (33 weeks, 5 days, 9 hours, 6 minutes, and 48 seconds ago), ln-- (36 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 16 minutes, and 12 seconds ago), ln_ (39 weeks, 1 day, 3 hours, 50 minutes, and 31 seconds ago), lnxbil (1 year, 12 weeks, 2 days, 3 hours, 59 minutes, and 1 second (1 more message)
23:17:14 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: ago), or ln-_ (1 year, 21 weeks, 6 days, 0 hours, 26 minutes, and 34 seconds ago)
23:17:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound right...
23:18:24 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: _ln was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 0 days, 8 hours, 3 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <_ln> goooood bye
23:26:34 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: do you miss him that much?
23:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i was just impressed that Rubidium actually applied his patch ;)
23:27:19 <TrueBrain> I guess you are right
23:28:23 <Rubidium> well, waiting for Bjarni to commit it means the bug will never be closed
23:28:33 <TrueBrain> my new speaker set is in transit ... I wonder how long it takes DHL to move something from germany to here :)
23:30:35 <Rubidium> Scilly - Orkney is ~21 hours by Royal Mail
23:30:47 <TrueBrain> TGP shows where (as in: city) a packet is .. DHL does not
23:30:49 <Rubidium> so DHL should be able to get it to you in 21 hours too
23:31:42 <TrueBrain> and DHL doesn't understand dutch zipcodes :p
23:32:41 *** PeteT is now known as PeterT
23:33:14 <TrueBrain> I wish you all a very good night
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23:33:28 <TrueBrain> and I even wish Eddi|zuHause a good ngiht ;)
23:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> afaik my harddrive came from the netherlands, it took 3 days
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