IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-07-02
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00:21:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16720 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make Set/ClearFrontEngine(), Set/ClearArticulatedPart(), Set/ClearWagon(), Set/ClearEngine(), Set/ClearFreeWagon() and Set/ClearMultiheaded() members of Train
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08:00:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think i am growing insane...
08:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i read a text that said "[...] uses the following logic:"
08:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and i read it as "[...] uses the following magic:"
08:01:43 <planetmaker> those things can be relatively close together.
08:02:01 <planetmaker> Especially, if you employ proofs as "is easily visible" etc
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08:15:46 <petern> hmm, i suppose my non-front-engine patch is totally busted by now :D
08:16:53 <Noldo> petern is the euler of openttd
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08:19:48 * petern ponders calling it 'freeform consists', heh
08:20:46 <petern> hmm, that was 6 months ago :s
08:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause> well, hierarchical consists could be useful
08:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> especially when they don't require an engine to give orders etc.
08:21:33 <Eddi|zuHause> could help in the process of dynamically reconfiguring the consists
08:22:11 <Noldo> eddi is dreaming about shunting again
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08:59:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16721 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make Is/SetRoadVehicleFront, Is/Set/HasArticulatedPart member of RoadVehicle.
09:06:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16722 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: unify the naming of the Is/Set/HasArticulatedPart functions
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09:37:49 * SirSquidness injects some more magic smoke in to petern's server
09:37:51 <SirSquidness> that should help a bit.
09:37:58 <SirSquidness> dont' go letting the magic smoke escape though.
09:38:19 <SirSquidness> oh, well, keep teh magic smoke. Not worth extracting it out again. :p
09:51:59 <greg> hi how do i get a .patch file to work with the latest revision
09:54:59 <petern> especially not that ancient one
09:55:44 <Rubidium> though I guess people will do it for you at the right price
09:57:59 <Rubidium> Noldo: it's him starting price, add 300$ for each hour worked on it
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09:58:28 <TrueBrain> special offer for you, because I like you so much: 500$!
10:00:07 <Noldo> greg: updating a patch basically rewriting it so that it fits with the changes in the trunk
10:00:24 <Noldo> if you can't write a patch you can't update on either
10:00:58 <TrueBrain> a 'Learn C++' book?
10:01:08 <greg> Where can i find that book exept the library
10:01:26 <TrueBrain> this is getting silly ...
10:02:15 <TrueBrain> oh, and now he realises ...
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10:18:35 <LadyHawk> do a google search for 'c++ for dummies'
10:18:58 <LadyHawk> it's a huge book starting from the beginning
10:19:13 <TrueBrain> in the beginning, there was Fortran
10:19:23 <TrueBrain> should be a boring book :)
10:19:25 <FauxFaux> You people make ##c++ very sad.
10:19:38 <Noldo> TrueBrain: you are having a good day aren't you?
10:19:47 <LadyHawk> well everyone started off not knowing c++
10:19:51 <Rubidium> in the beginning there was ... wire and solder
10:20:52 <LadyHawk> i remember reading through that c++ for dummies book, got to page 240 or something
10:21:30 <LadyHawk> then gave up, i had nothing to code and that book has no 'tests'
10:21:31 <TrueBrain> I never read any C(++) book :p
10:21:35 <LadyHawk> it's just reading so it doesn't stick
10:21:35 <TrueBrain> the best way to learn is by doing it :)
10:22:24 <Rubidium> the best way to learn stuff is by a huge metal pin stuffed into your neck
10:22:41 <TrueBrain> and for who ever doubts I am sane: http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/snipes <- requires linux + ncurses (via a terminal of course); you can only quit by killing the application. Make sure to disable your numlock in order to move the player :p And .. sorry about the binary size :)
10:24:52 <LadyHawk> maybe one day everyone will have a chip implanted into their brains
10:25:08 <LadyHawk> so you can upload data and learn something instantly
10:28:47 * Rubidium would like to point out that I came to this forum after the "White Rabbit" ;)
10:31:11 <petern> maybe one day everyone will have a chip implanted into their brains
10:31:21 <petern> so the governments can track everyone
10:32:13 <Rubidium> not one that's biologically growns as in "Taken"?
10:32:46 <Rubidium> although, if it's biologically grown you can turn it off yourself, so I guess for the intended government use they want something that can't be turned off
10:33:23 <LadyHawk> sadly, i think petern's idea about that chip is more likely than mine
10:42:17 <Westie> it's probably already happened
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10:49:18 <Eddi|zuHause> <Noldo> eddi is dreaming about shunting again <- yes, and i won't let people like you keep me from doing it :p
10:50:08 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: oh, I'm not keeping you :)
10:50:30 <Rubidium> but implementing it would keep it from being a dream
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10:57:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i tried getting people to implement it... but there are no takers...
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11:01:17 <rlogiacco> is it possible to sabotage computer competitors? old school sabotage tactics seem to fail in openttd
11:01:30 <planetmaker> why do you want to sabotage them?
11:01:48 <planetmaker> And yes, most (all?) cheating is disabled.
11:01:58 <planetmaker> As they could be considered bugs. Not features.
11:03:10 <Eddi|zuHause> rlogiacco: the only way to beat the competition is to get higher rating or exclusive rights
11:04:00 <rlogiacco> well, i wish to sabotage them because they have advantages over human players
11:04:26 <rlogiacco> like free terrain leveling and superb ratings which doesn't drop
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11:07:33 <rlogiacco> i've a pc competitor with vey good ratings with one train only servicing that line....
11:08:07 <rlogiacco> well, i'm playing 0.6 to be honest
11:08:24 <petern> AIs have no advantage in 0.7.x
11:09:06 <rlogiacco> ok, i'll try to beat them without sabotage.... but it will be hard... very hard :)
11:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> really, you should update to 0.7.x
11:19:37 <LadyHawk> you could zoom out as far as possible and the whole screen would be 1 huge leveling place
11:19:42 <LadyHawk> until the AI found a spot to drop a station
11:21:08 <LadyHawk> and the AI would have odd station ratings, 98% with a tiny train that's almost exploding from old age and the station almost exploding from cargo
11:21:18 <LadyHawk> you buy them out and station rating would drop to poor
11:22:33 <LadyHawk> there's only 1 AI change that i don't like
11:22:49 <LadyHawk> the original TTD had AI's very slow build speed as actually very slow
11:22:57 <LadyHawk> a speed a human being can keep up with
11:23:09 <LadyHawk> i loved that because i always used to play along the AI
11:23:14 <LadyHawk> but now very slow is insanely fast
11:23:40 <LadyHawk> can't play no more, by the time you managed to block him off he's already 50% done
11:24:19 <LadyHawk> and by the time you manage to clone the AI's stations next to his own, he's already removed it because it's 'impossible' to finish
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11:41:24 <Rubidium> LadyHawk: just give it less ops per tick (advanced setting)
11:41:30 <Rubidium> and reduce it's building speed
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11:49:18 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: the old AI got bonus on station rating depending on difficulty
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11:59:19 <LadyHawk> Rubidium, is that the "#opcodes before AI is suspended" thing?
11:59:49 <LadyHawk> ahh thanks, i left it alone because i couldn't figure out what it ment
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12:10:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16723 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make GetNextArticPart(), GetLastEnginePart(), GetNextVehicle(), GetPrevVehicle(), GetNextUnit(), GetPrevUnit() members of Train
12:13:42 <Rubidium> doing code changes is hot?
12:13:53 <TrueBrain> no, the weather outside is
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12:48:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r16724 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_types.hpp subsidy_base.h): -Fix (r16714): MSVC 64bit warnings (Rubidium)
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12:54:16 <kieran491> you wouldn't happen to know how to increase a servers speed?
12:54:46 <kieran491> i mean actual game speed
12:55:28 <SmatZ> there are some "daylength" patches out there
12:55:32 <kieran491> openttd (dedicated) is only using 2% of CPU
12:55:37 <SmatZ> but they may ruin the economy :-p
12:55:40 <petern> it should be 2.2 seconds per day
12:56:03 <kieran491> i was hoping to be able i could ajust a varible or somthing simular to increase the game speed
12:57:31 <SmatZ> not without modifying game source
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12:57:52 <kieran491> how would my hardware effect the game to that extent
12:58:03 <SmatZ> you could make the system timer faster
12:58:09 <kieran491> im running the server of a Mandriva
12:58:29 <kieran491> its running on a.... i think 3200+ athlon amd
12:58:43 <TrueBrain> I feel a BOFH coming up ... :p
12:59:12 <kieran491> The Bastard Operator From Hell?
12:59:28 <TrueBrain> kieran491: as said before, the amount of gamedays per minute is predefined
12:59:35 <TrueBrain> if you want to change that, you need to modify the source
13:00:24 <SmatZ> yeah, using solder to replace your system timer by "faster" one (in current systems you would probably need to replace NB for that... or maybe even the CPU, it's not doable anymore)
13:04:25 <kieran491> what controlls does a dedicated server have over the overall game?
13:06:03 <SmatZ> setting town growth rate
13:06:33 <SmatZ> I could write ~100 patch settings you can set as a dedicated server
13:06:40 <SmatZ> but it's just boring thing to do
13:07:21 <kieran491> Ohh i dont know more than that at least...
13:07:48 <kieran491> Also i find it annoying that you have to use a 3rd party bot to be able to gather any decent stats and etc
13:10:58 <kieran491> i dont know that much about C++ to be able to even consider making a patch...
13:11:02 <SmatZ> actually, I am not sure if that should be done inside OTTD
13:11:11 <SmatZ> I think 3rd party tool is better for that
13:11:23 <SmatZ> bloating with non-relevant code and such...
13:12:11 <kieran491> SmatZ: it agree where your coming from but that means the bot or program is sitting in the actual game it would be nice though if the game could pipe of infomation to another such program with out the program having to join as a player
13:12:36 <TrueBrain> then you never looked into those 3rd party applications
13:12:56 <kieran491> i looked at the python one
13:13:02 <kieran491> but i was unable to find anyinfomation
13:13:07 <kieran491> for other alternitives
13:14:10 <kieran491> its OpenTTD-Python if you know of any others i am more than intrested
13:16:53 <kieran491> isn't that just for setup the config file
13:17:26 <Belugas> then it would be called autoconfig, don't you think?
13:17:54 <Ammler> there are also some configurator tools around...
13:18:08 <Rubidium> Belugas: but but... Airbus pilots configure the plane, they don't control it
13:20:58 <kieran491> Tcl never heard of that langue
13:22:48 <dihedral> windows or posix system?
13:23:55 <dihedral> well, then you can use ap+ or avignon (which still has not seen it's first release, but is close to it)
13:24:15 <kieran491> whats this for sorry?
13:25:01 <dihedral> ap+ is built on autopilot
13:25:09 <dihedral> avignon is a rewrite
13:25:45 <kieran491> which of the two has more hooks?
13:26:13 <Belugas> Rubidium, and when they do, it's when it crashes!
13:26:22 <dihedral> what do you want to do kieran491
13:26:47 <kieran491> i dont know yet i have some ideas like recording stats and etc but i would like to see what i can do
13:27:06 <dihedral> avignon will probably be your better solution
13:27:30 <dihedral> we have not done our alpha release yet, but it has a nice plugin api
13:27:31 <kieran491> is the python solution any good?
13:27:40 <dihedral> + if it needs extending, we are happy to help
13:27:48 <dihedral> what python solution?
13:29:16 <dihedral> if i am not totally mistaken, that is a patch for openttd 0.7
13:29:27 <Rubidium> the python thingy heavily relies on the format of the network protocol
13:29:38 <Rubidium> that protocol can change at any moment making it completely unuseable
13:29:57 <kieran491> but isn't that how the others work?
13:30:03 <Rubidium> especailly the part the python thingy relies on
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13:30:18 <dihedral> it's yoricks work, i would 1. not rely on that, 2. it uses a client connection
13:30:38 <dihedral> the autopilot stuff wraps the dedicated server console
13:30:50 <kieran491> sweet that what i want to hear
13:31:04 <kieran491> where can i find avignon?
13:31:22 <dihedral> for support feel free to ask me :-P
13:31:47 <kieran491> is tcl easy to learn?
13:32:27 <dihedral> different, but very easy
13:32:31 <dihedral> some people dont like it
13:33:30 <planetmaker> Ammler, which time frame is that?
13:33:48 <Ammler> game 140, ODM's pareser
13:33:54 <kieran491> ohh can tcl contact a mysql server?
13:34:17 <planetmaker> Ammler, we should add that to the archive of "who played" :)
13:34:46 <planetmaker> would make lists BIG, though :P
13:34:47 <Ammler> dunno, if avignon already does too?
13:34:50 <dihedral> kieran491, if you have the right module installed, yes
13:34:55 <planetmaker> and I guess it contains also spectators.
13:34:57 <dihedral> there is a tclmysql lib
13:35:10 <kieran491> whats the address for the tcl site?
13:36:00 <dihedral> more interesting i'd say
13:36:12 <dihedral> now a overall 'hours played' :-D
13:41:31 <SmatZ> I got an idea... next time I get advert call, I start yelling in the phone
13:41:44 <SmatZ> I wonder how long it will take until they understand I am crazy
13:42:34 <TrueBrain> what was your number? :)
13:43:19 <Rubidium> SmatZ: you're doing something wrong
13:43:30 <Rubidium> you should try to waste as MUCH of their time as possible
13:44:12 <Rubidium> wasting their time costs the person their job (they must have X succesful calls a day) and the company paying for the job money for no gain
13:45:57 <dihedral> hehe i like that ide
13:46:38 <Rubidium> just stall them with things
13:46:54 <Rubidium> could you please hold on, I'm going to get a pen and paper
13:47:21 <Rubidium> then after a minute tell them you're still searching for a pen etc.
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13:47:37 <Rubidium> won't cost you much time, assuming you've got a mobile-ish phone
13:47:52 <Rubidium> unless you have to pay for incoming calls
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13:54:17 * Belugas likes to engage converstation with those poor folks. Like... give me the address of your company, which # to reach, how good/bad are your conditions, do yo believe in God, in Jehova, in Rael, in Belzebuth, is that product so good? have you tried it? No, my i am in an assilum during the day, part of my therapy...
13:54:42 <Belugas> funny results sometimes...
13:55:06 <Belugas> once i heard " Ho no... not him again" and Click... hangup ^)^
13:58:35 <dihedral> i once engaged in a conversation with someone who wanted to sell windows - it took him quite some time until he found out that i was renting a room in a flat share :-D
14:02:36 <FauxFaux> THe thing that annoys me most is when they won't get to the point.
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14:03:16 <FauxFaux> I sit there pretending I'm holding down enter to skip the cutscenes; saying "yeah, and" over and over.
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14:35:22 <Belugas> one could try to speak with mouth full of chips or something alike
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14:38:40 <dihedral> hehe - imagine them calling a phone-sex company :-P
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16:52:45 <frosch123> sorry orudge, but when the forums produce an annoying laugthter every few seconds, then I have to enable the ad-blocker :s
16:55:20 <TrueBrain> I don't feel anything :(
16:55:28 <dihedral> but it's only when you go over it with your mouse frosch123
16:56:06 <frosch123> don't know, did not notice
16:57:05 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you've got CIPA?
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16:58:19 <dpaanlka> I vaguely recall in the good old days of Transport Tycoon, there was a setting where when a company went bankrupt it's tracks would remian and be available for use by anyone.
16:58:48 <dpaanlka> Does anyone else remember that or am I delusional?
16:59:02 <SpComb> I think you're delusional
16:59:36 <frosch123> it is like that for roads and canals :)
17:00:17 <Ammler> does someone still have a stable (old) nforenum build?
17:00:40 <frosch123> Ammler: pass a -r option to svn up ?
17:01:26 <TrueBrain> no, that would make sense
17:01:46 <Ammler> frosch123: I am not able anymore to compile it, I guess, my boost is too new, now.
17:05:55 <Rubidium> Ammler: then install the older one next to it. How hard can it be?
17:06:24 <Ammler> well, I use the windows version with wine.
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17:09:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r16725 /trunk/src/industry.h: -Documentation: raw_industry_cost_multiplier
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17:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: why does it have to be stable?
17:18:20 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: there is a bug with escapes on the newer which fails firs compile
17:18:52 <Ammler> I guess, it is reported in the forums, but dalestan isn't around...
17:19:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... has the location of the repository changed?
17:20:36 <Ammler> dunno, it isn't bazaar anymore.
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17:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... does wikileaks.org ever produce anything other than timeouts?
17:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r16726 /trunk/src/lang/ (indonesian.txt italian.txt korean.txt swedish.txt):
17:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 26 changes by fanioz
17:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 8 changes by lorenzodv
17:46:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 29 changes by darkttd
17:46:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: swedish - 74 changes by daishan
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18:16:52 <petern> hmm, so sourceforge got another redesign, eh
18:17:28 <SmatZ> We're sorry but we weren't able to process this request.
18:17:46 <SmatZ> I liked the black design
18:17:49 <Rubidium> and... it's even crappier!
18:20:40 <petern> yeah, ti's a bit unreliable too :)
18:21:39 <Rubidium> and... if you don't fill in exactly what the binary is it will suggest older ones
18:21:53 <Rubidium> e.g. it suggested 0.6.2 binaries instead of 0.7.1
18:22:19 <Rubidium> so we need to find someone who fancies to spend 15 minutes a release to make sure sf keeps working the way it should
18:23:55 <TrueBrain> I vote for valhallasw
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18:29:04 <Belugas> mmh... tonigh, it's "Lost" at 20:00h, same as "So You Think You Can Dance".. hurray for VHS!
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19:38:16 <Belugas> Iced, for me, please, with a drop of lemon/honey/rhum/cognac
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19:52:35 <Belugas> oh boy... Alberth, make it a double please..
19:54:32 <Alberth> hmm, are you sure? you may start thinking that they think they are lost while dancing
19:58:00 <andythenorth_> have you unplugged the tt-forums server while you make tea?
19:59:00 * Alberth checks the tt-forums plug..... no, not me
19:59:09 <jonty-comp^> this is why everyone should be in #tycoon. D:
19:59:38 <andythenorth_> I mean, tea is important. But so is tt
19:59:56 <andythenorth_> although this might put an end to dumb questions for a while
20:00:06 <Alberth> now you can make tea without missing anything at tt-forums
20:00:28 <andythenorth_> anyway, time to leave the office now
20:00:33 <andythenorth_> if forums are done
20:01:03 <andythenorth_> anyone else still working?
20:01:48 * Alberth is working hard on the GUI patches
20:02:00 <andythenorth_> so no boss there then?
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20:08:59 <gotiniens> Is it a know problem not being able to add bus stations to the shedule of a bus with the OpenGFX set?
20:10:37 <Belugas> forums are dead drunk for me too
20:11:12 <Noldo> gotiniens: propably not
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20:14:46 <gotiniens> sending an bus to an truck station isn't really an good idea is it?
20:15:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
20:16:13 <gotiniens> it's just to hot in here
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20:23:54 <Belugas> go to yuor office, stay under the aircon
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20:26:46 <Belugas> believe me, for been the one under the cool air flow, it does
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20:27:22 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Are the forums down?
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21:01:44 * Belugas is going home, finally
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21:18:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r16727 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Introducing WD_SORTBUTTON_ARROW_WIDTH constant.
21:18:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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22:42:16 <Rubidium> where's someone from Mensa when you need them?
22:44:42 <Rubidium> you've been kicked out?
22:45:50 * Rubidium just wants to note that "owl" if pronounced as if it were Dutch sounds a lot like "all"
22:48:44 <Nite_Owl> if you have a 'southern' US accent the words 'OIL' and 'ALL' and 'OWL' all sound the same
22:53:02 <Nite_Owl> need to feed - back a bit later
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23:42:01 <Sacro> "So the other day a customer calls in with connection problems. Apparently the customer was using a dial-up modem hooked up to the voip line to connect to AOL..."
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continue to next day ⏵
