IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-04-20
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03:49:36 <nicfer> Would be cool if the cities grow near stations instead of growing indiscriminately by only having four stations in the center
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06:38:50 <Celestar> gooooooooooooooooooooood morning Viet ... er #openttd :P
06:43:42 <Forked> morning, sir and/or ma'ams
06:45:34 <dihedral> fuck the fucking fuckers!
06:46:54 * Celestar slaps petern with a Microsoft (R) Windows (R) Vista (R) Ultimate (R) box
06:47:38 <dihedral> the (R) would probably have been enough
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06:50:45 <petern> synced cargo dest yet?
06:52:09 <petern> i made a one line change and everything got recompiled :o
06:53:26 <Celestar> petern: the order list change makes it not easy
06:53:39 <Celestar> Aali: we still haven't finished the conversation yet :P
07:06:55 <dihedral> Celestar, i like the "we" :-D
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07:37:58 <petern> maybe i was just too used to my q6600 :p
07:42:33 <petern> woo yay, 15mph buses :s
07:42:50 <petern> just started up a nars game
07:43:00 <petern> alas, need to go to work :(
08:03:47 <Gekz> where was that comic gfx grf?
08:06:38 <Gekz> ah it's going to be vapourware
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08:27:13 <Gekz> they arent making it into base graphics yet apparently
08:31:01 <Gekz> eGRVTS, can it be used with GRVTS or is this redundant?
08:32:37 <petern> he isn't required to, and maybe nobody's asked him nicely :p
08:32:50 <Gekz> it makes it harder for me to get it
08:32:54 <petern> or he might not bother until 0.9
08:32:57 <Noldo> he is an Artist after all
08:33:37 <Gekz> I cant remember if I liked planeset better than av8
08:34:06 <petern> just do what all the other muppets do and use both
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09:37:31 <[wito]> Did someone say cargodest?
09:45:07 * petern ponders making more comic 32bpp sprites
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09:46:16 <TrueBrain> are there any already? :p
09:48:54 <petern> ^ that isn't going to work too well
09:49:53 <Gekz> petern: so is it being converted into a base graphics?
09:53:18 <petern> it's a 32bpp graphics set, currently it just replaces sprites
09:54:48 <Gekz> which is converting it from raw images to embedding them in a format that openttd interprets as sprites
09:55:33 <Gekz> -.- by format I mean a grf of some sort
09:55:38 <Gekz> not the encoding of the emage
09:55:58 <petern> if you want a grf, it won't be 32bpp
09:56:30 <Noldo> png files with specific metadata with specific names in a specific directory
10:00:41 <Gekz> base graphics confuse me
10:00:47 <Gekz> petern: can you explain to me how base graphics work
10:00:54 <Gekz> obviously my understanding is flawed
10:15:31 <petern> base graphics are the original trg* grf files
10:15:46 <petern> or new grf files like opengfx
10:15:52 <petern> (but not newgrf files)
10:16:29 <petern> because they are plain grf files, base graphics have a meta file describing the the set
10:22:25 <petern> 32bpp graphics, however, are individual png files which replace a specific sprite (filename as a number) from a specific grf file (path to sprite)
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10:36:28 <Gekz> are there any precompiled nightly Ubuntu binaries
10:38:16 <TrueBrain> more exact: it has .deb packages
10:38:18 <Gekz> the Debian binaries .deb files
10:38:42 <Gekz> libraries in Lenny are not the same as the ones in Ubuntu
10:38:44 <TrueBrain> then your initial question was flawed :)
10:38:50 <Gekz> especially considering Lenny is frozen
10:39:02 <Gekz> the nightlies have stunted in the deb department
10:39:05 <TrueBrain> you added a precondition: a specific version of Ubuntu!
10:39:41 <Sacro> Well, so long as you run makepkg on openttd-svn slightly after 8
10:44:53 <Gekz> sorry for assuming that nightlies kept up with library updates
10:50:12 <Xaroth> Gekz: by lack of better you can always use a script that svn up's and then compiles that
10:50:56 <petern> if you will use unstable distributions...
10:51:11 <Gekz> petern: no excuse, Lenny was supported while it was in Testing
10:51:21 <Gekz> long before the feature freeze even
10:51:30 <Gekz> Xaroth: my girlfriend cant use svn :P
10:51:39 <Xaroth> that's why i said, use a script :)
10:51:39 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16097 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/masterserver/ (handler.cpp masterserver.h udp.cpp):
10:51:39 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: [MSU] -Fix: the master server acked using the wrong source address making it
10:51:39 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: possible that the ack packet got lost in NATs. As a result servers would retry
10:51:39 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: advertising because they never got an ack, but they were on the server list.
10:51:45 <petern> hehe, jaunty has 0.6.3 :D
10:51:59 <petern> i guess april was too late for it
10:52:16 <Rubidium> I guess blathijs was too late for it ;)
10:52:47 <petern> ... blathijs doesn't deal with ubuntu...
10:52:55 <dihedral> Gekz, testing != unstable ;-)
10:53:09 <Gekz> your argument is invalid
10:53:14 <Rubidium> petern: ubuntu leeches debian packages 1-on-1 for OpenTTD
10:53:18 <petern> ubuntu is unstable by definition
10:53:44 <petern> Rubidium, well that's silly of them, as lenny was released way before 0.7.0 :D
10:53:45 <dihedral> Ubuntu is a simple user os :-P
10:54:03 <Gekz> petern: ubuntu uses sid as a base
10:54:06 <petern> where is blathijs' time machine :s
10:54:11 <dihedral> the only semi nice thing is LTS for 8.0.4 server release, at least some companies like it
10:54:15 <Rubidium> petern: who says that ubuntu uses stable packages?
10:54:15 <TrueBrain> most likely we can make .deb compatible with Ubuntu Jaunty, by adding Debian SID
10:54:22 <petern> of course, it's unstalbe
10:54:26 <dihedral> Gekz, sid is unstable!!
10:54:36 <Gekz> dihedral: sid is not that unstable
10:54:45 <Gekz> it's more stable than Fedora
10:54:48 <petern> that's why it's called sid
10:55:05 <dihedral> Gekz, get a potato :-P
10:55:06 <Gekz> and I've never had an OpenSuSE system work for me
10:55:17 <dihedral> OpenSuSE sucks too :-P
10:55:31 <Gekz> and afraid to support things that you fear
10:55:40 <petern> and gekz fails on the meaning of stable/unstable front
10:55:41 <Rubidium> dihedral: but potato is like *old*
10:55:53 <dihedral> Rubidium, so? :-P i was making fun :-P
10:56:11 <dihedral> petern, not to forget 'testing' :-P
10:56:20 <dihedral> Gekz, lenny is stable :-P
10:56:20 <TrueBrain> Quarks^afk == Qu@rks of forum?
10:56:20 <Gekz> you should support squeeze by now
10:56:24 <Gekz> it's already 4 years out of date
10:56:51 <dihedral> Gekz, you should start compiling yourself :-P
10:57:00 <Gekz> what do you think I'm doing
10:57:03 <Gekz> I'm not complaining for no reason
10:57:07 <Gekz> I'm complaining while I wait
10:57:20 <TrueBrain> @kick Gekz I am allowed to kick wankers in here
10:57:20 *** Gekz was kicked by DorpsGek (I am allowed to kick wankers in here)
11:00:29 <dihedral> Gekz, we lol at you :-D
11:00:30 <Rubidium> anyhow sid + ati video card + wanting video playback == not always that good
11:00:47 <dihedral> sid was never good with any toys :-D
11:00:52 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: linux + ati drivers == not always that good
11:01:06 <dihedral> TrueBrain, let me underline "not always"
11:01:13 <dihedral> it works on my system at work :-P
11:01:16 <TrueBrain> the reason I bought an nvidia
11:02:09 * Rubidium sometimes wants his lame intel video card back (nothing nvidia-ish)
11:02:32 <Rubidium> cause that 'just works' instead of having a plethora of drivers that all partially work
11:02:38 <TrueBrain> I am also happy with my intel .. although it doesn't have as much GPU power as my nvidia had :p
11:02:52 <TrueBrain> but yes, Intel has some very good open source drivers :)
11:03:15 <Rubidium> my previous intel had some problems with some video playback on full screen
11:03:35 <Rubidium> like e.g. Elephants Dream
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11:17:58 <Singaporekid> pikka u r silly i've nvr seen dat b4
11:18:26 <planetmaker> Translation question: STR_0014_GOODS <-- can I designate the string as plural form so that in strings with gender distinction the plural article is used?
11:18:52 <Rubidium> just add a 'plural' gender
11:20:07 <planetmaker> You mean add a 4th gender to German language?
11:21:01 <planetmaker> uhuhhh... that means changing all strings with a gender than just this nasty goods string :(
11:22:30 <planetmaker> would you consider it a "clean" solution?
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11:22:46 <LUADuck> Possible bug, mind if I copy-pasta
11:23:12 <planetmaker> use paste.openttd.org
11:23:30 <planetmaker> if more than 3 lines
11:24:06 <LUADuck> I prefer pastebin.com
11:25:12 <Rubidium> it's AFAIK the only solution without adding a new gender-like concept to strgen for plural (which will make things more complex and likely not much better)
11:26:18 <TrueBrain> LUADuck: 1) it is okay to type such things in this channel; with 'pastes' people mostly assume some more complex data then a description
11:26:22 <LUADuck> Essentially you can keep making money for nothing if you have a friend willing to trade shares
11:26:30 <TrueBrain> 2) you could have searched wiki / tt-forums to get your answer
11:26:33 <LUADuck> Want me to copy-pasta here?
11:26:43 <TrueBrain> no, as you also already give a summary
11:26:53 <TrueBrain> which makes it both obsolete as silly
11:27:16 <LUADuck> So I was messing around with my brother on this game today. I found out that if you buy stock in another company then give them all your cash, then sell the stock you bought it gives you your money back. Then they can just give you the money that you gave them and do the whole process over again.
11:27:16 <LUADuck> I noticed that the game doesn't count stock in your company value and thats why this works.
11:27:20 *** petern sets mode: +b *!*LUADuck@*.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com
11:27:20 *** LUADuck was kicked by petern (LUADuck)
11:27:25 <TrueBrain> he really can't read :s
11:27:43 <planetmaker> yeah, a concept like that. Though a plural distinction is already done for a number of strings - but then it only depends upon a number...
11:28:03 <planetmaker> ok, so I'll postpone this change till wt3 :) - or I'll miss many strings, I guess.
11:28:04 <TrueBrain> petern: scripted, or manual?
11:28:28 *** petern sets mode: -b *!*LUADuck@*.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com
11:30:02 <planetmaker> anyway I should put the issue to discussion in the German language translation thread. Thanks Rubidium
11:34:15 <planetmaker> Though... the easiest solution for now is to mis-use an existing gender. It has the same form of the articles as the plural one.
11:45:44 *** Quarks^afk is now known as Quarks
11:47:01 <Quarks> yeah truebrain, I am forumquarks ;)
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11:50:27 <dihedral> petern: thanks for the ban :-)
11:54:49 <TrueBrain> Quarks: we were wondering if you could run 'tcpdump' to find out why your server can't be queried by ottd_update :)
11:54:58 <petern> hmm, pbs rendering bug :s
12:03:21 <Forked> compiling for win32.. mind if I post the binary? (note to self: include COPYING, LICENSE and so on..)
12:03:48 <Forked> thats not a problem as they are no where near the bin/
12:04:07 <Forked> however the files that should be included are not.. I've already stepped in that mess several times :\
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12:14:03 <Quarks> guys, if you have nothing to do at the moment
12:14:21 <Quarks> do me favor and see if you can find "OpenTTD Fair Play Server #1" and try connecting
12:14:33 <Quarks> you never have anything useful to do, dih ;)
12:14:41 <dihedral> Quarks, what about the server list?
12:14:58 <Quarks> well i wanna know whether any1 can connect
12:15:06 <TrueBrain> dihedral: for a chance, do what the man ask ;) :)
12:15:57 <dihedral> 'vat ze mn ask' sounds 'verry' un-iinglish
12:16:30 <Quarks> i thought it was spelled "vot zah muhn uhsks" ;)
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12:17:33 <Xaroth> fonsinchen: can you check what kind of revision tags your builds use?
12:18:05 <Xaroth> if they use something sane with a good prefix I can make AutoTTD accommedate for servers running cargodist at some point.
12:18:17 <Quarks> so i assume noone can connect?
12:18:50 <Xaroth> Quarks: does it show up on the master server?
12:19:16 <dihedral> Xaroth, it's the tcp connection he's thinking about ^^
12:19:32 <dihedral> Quarks, congrats at getting that far - what'd you change? :-P
12:19:52 <Quarks> which didnt work like two days ago -.-
12:20:12 <[wito]> Holy frame lag, batman!
12:20:27 <Quarks> brain told me that ports >10k didnt work
12:20:39 <Quarks> and apparently hes right (well not apparently, of course he's right :D )
12:21:31 <planetmaker> Quarks, wasn't there a commit recently which made also 5-digit ports work?
12:21:49 <Quarks> i always used port 27015
12:22:06 <Quarks> but now all of a sudden it doesnt work any more :(
12:22:52 <planetmaker> Quarks, you're using the latest nightly?
12:23:02 <Quarks> i am using 0.7.0 at the moment
12:23:18 <Quarks> the latest nightly shows the same behavior though
12:23:23 <planetmaker> try - for a change - with the latest nightly... ok
12:23:50 <glx> there was a commit recently about ack packet recently
12:24:10 <TrueBrain> glx: unrelated (well .. kind of anyway :p)
12:24:28 <dihedral> and that'd be unrelated to the version of OpenTTD :-)
12:25:59 <Gekz> I'm trying to build a deb from the nightly source
12:26:07 <Gekz> but it doesnt have a revision number
12:26:16 <Gekz> and I cant remember how to specify it in a config file somewhere
12:26:32 <Gekz> I know if I was making a deb i'd do --revision=rxxxx
12:26:39 <Gekz> but how do I specify that in this situation
12:26:44 <Xaroth> Quarks: if it shows up in the master server list it means the master server can contact your server
12:26:54 <Xaroth> so at least -something- is working
12:27:02 <Quarks> it doesnt show up with its name
12:27:04 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: tnx for stating the obvious ;)
12:27:05 <Quarks> just with its IP adress
12:27:18 <Xaroth> i'll use my lib to check if it works
12:27:43 <Xaroth> Quarks: ip:port combo please and i'll check
12:27:56 <Quarks> it works if you enter it manually
12:28:09 <Quarks> look for OpenTTD Fair Play #1 in the ingame server list
12:28:30 * TrueBrain gives Xaroth the IP:port in a PM
12:28:47 <Quarks> it always works if people enter ip and port manually
12:28:56 <TrueBrain> Quarks: his tool is different
12:29:10 <Xaroth> yeh but it means i can abuse it to see if it listens
12:29:16 <TrueBrain> haha, something is nasty wrong ... :)
12:29:19 <TrueBrain> glx: not the server we talk about :p
12:29:34 <Quarks> ill let the professionals handle this :)
12:29:37 <Xaroth> you gave me #2, not #1 :)
12:29:50 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: #1 is running ;)
12:29:51 <Quarks> #1 is quarks.game-host.org:3979
12:30:00 <TrueBrain> but ... I have an idea what is going on :)
12:30:01 <Quarks> #2 is quarks.game-host.org:27015
12:30:03 <Xaroth> #2 shows up as running here
12:30:08 <TrueBrain> 12:28:51.770035 IP 88.74.97.42 > 85.17.162.188: ICMP 88.74.97.42 udp port 2701 unreachable, length 39 <- sound horrible ;)
12:30:38 <Quarks> that means that only 4 digits are specified for the port?
12:30:45 <TrueBrain> glx: the question is: where ....
12:30:48 <Quarks> and it leaves out the 5?
12:30:53 <glx> there's a 5 somewhere in the code
12:30:59 <Xaroth> 1 and 2 both show up as running here.
12:31:50 <Quarks> but you probably cant connect to #2
12:31:55 <TrueBrain> seprintf(port_name, lastof(port_name), "%u", this->GetPort());
12:32:02 <TrueBrain> the only reference to a char in port number ...
12:32:37 <Xaroth> if he picked a 3979X port
12:32:48 <Xaroth> cuz that meant the client would be connecting to #1 all the time :P
12:34:24 <fonsinchen> xaroth, if I build them they use "git revision" + "-" + "branch name"
12:34:33 <fonsinchen> I guess that's not meaningful
12:34:50 <Quarks> if i change the port to 2701 and forward that port
12:34:50 <Xaroth> er, was more about the revision they broadcast to master server :)
12:34:56 <TrueBrain> Quarks: haha, please don't :)
12:35:02 <fonsinchen> I didn't change that one
12:35:06 <TrueBrain> Quarks: give us a few moments to fix the problem for real :)
12:35:20 <Quarks> but it doesnt work if i forward 2701
12:35:21 <TrueBrain> but I guess we just need Rubidium, which most likely says something like: oh, that problem! :p
12:35:22 <fonsinchen> or do you mean the save game version?
12:35:24 <Quarks> and leave the port at 27015
12:35:35 <TrueBrain> Quarks: redirect 2701 at router level to 27015
12:35:36 <Rubidium> hmm, seem to remember such an error
12:36:04 <Xaroth> i mean as in r<number> for nightlies, <nr>.<nr>.<nr> for releases etc
12:36:40 <Rubidium> is the server 'turned on' right now?
12:36:48 <TrueBrain> never knew UDP returns invalid port on ICMP level :)
12:36:48 <fonsinchen> I can make another branch on top of cd-gui which updates the published version
12:36:53 <Quarks> i dont think my router supports this sort of setting
12:36:58 <fonsinchen> then you can use that one for your updater
12:37:00 <Xaroth> fonsinchen: that would be awesome
12:37:13 <fonsinchen> do you know where that version string is determined?
12:37:18 <TrueBrain> I now see port 1111, 2701 and 9999 passing by ....
12:37:42 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: his server is running at 27015
12:38:00 <Quarks> 1111 was supposed to be 11111
12:38:10 <Quarks> i tried 9999 and 11111 to find out whether it works
12:38:16 <Quarks> and 9999 did work, 11111 did not
12:39:20 <Xaroth> fonsinchen: trunk/src/rev.h
12:40:25 <Xaroth> or at least related to that one
12:42:11 <Rubidium> nothing runs right now on 11111?
12:43:02 <Quarks> i used 11111 to try something out
12:44:13 <TrueBrain> nice off-by-one Rubidium :)
12:44:39 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16098 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/string.cpp: [MSU] -Fix: (v)seprintf chopped of strings one character earlier than necessary. Same as FS#2814/r15963 in trunk... how much I want to be able to fetch single files via svn:external as that would've prevented this.
12:45:16 <TrueBrain> tnx Rubidium, and tnx Quarks :)
12:45:35 <Quarks> nonono dont thank me, thank you and rubidium for your efforts :)
12:46:50 <Xaroth> Rubidium saves the proverbial day yet again
12:48:21 <Quarks> since the problem is solved
12:48:38 <Quarks> "I DEMAND VERSION 0.7.1!!!" ;)
12:49:22 <planetmaker> Quarks, help yourself: ./configure --revision=0.7.1 && make
12:50:09 <fonsinchen> rev.cpp is where the version is determined. However this file is usually not under revision control and will autogenerate whenever I build. How can I set the revision manually and make that a permanent part of a git branch?
12:50:09 <glx> Quarks: not an ottd bug :)
12:50:27 <TrueBrain> fonsinchen: as Xaroth told you: rev.cpp.in
12:50:32 <xand> would it be viable for industries that are built from "other" climates to accept/produce the right goods?
12:50:48 <fonsinchen> ah ... ".in", I should learn reading.
12:51:04 <TrueBrain> I will send you the bill
12:52:55 <Xaroth> er, fonsinchen, it might be best to just format the git revision
12:53:02 <planetmaker> xand, if you modify them by a newgrf, yes
12:53:11 <Xaroth> like "cdist-{oldrevision}"
12:53:21 <Xaroth> where {oldrevision} gets changed by the current git revision
12:53:24 <xand> I got very confused when the factory I built wanted water and fruit or something
12:53:48 <Xaroth> that way every time you release something new it'll have the proper revision numbering etc
12:53:50 <planetmaker> xand, you probably changed climates and/or newgrf in mid game. Both is not healthy behaviour
12:53:53 <TrueBrain> cargodest for example becomes: cargodest-h3b244a8f as revision
12:54:06 * Xaroth points at TrueBrain's statement
12:54:19 <xand> planetmaker: actually I went to build new industry, and it gave me industries from all climates
12:54:43 <xand> what would be cool imo is to have a big map that has different climates in different areas but I doubt that would be easy :)
12:54:49 <Xaroth> that way AutoTTD can regexp on cargodest-(.*) or something silly
12:54:55 <Xaroth> and stuff like h2h won't match that
12:55:03 <TrueBrain> it is the predefined format for revisions :)
12:55:05 <xand> also I keep getting new coal mines built, which produce rubber
12:55:15 <TrueBrain> <branchname>-<revision>
12:55:21 <TrueBrain> where the latter is depending on the VCS source
12:55:28 <TrueBrain> (and handled by findrevision.sh)
12:56:19 <fonsinchen> ok, it's now cdist-<git rev>-cd-revision
12:56:32 <fonsinchen> somewhat redundant ...
12:56:52 <fonsinchen> before it was <git rev>-<branch name>
12:57:14 <Rubidium> Quarks: what reasons for 0.7.1 are there?
12:57:24 <Quarks> none, i was just kidding
12:57:33 <[wito]> has there been any effort sync cargodEst to trunk?
12:57:45 <glx> fonsinchen: if his stuff doesn't handle it it's not your fault ;)
12:58:35 <fonsinchen> Xaroth, can you auto updater match on postfixes? Then I suggest you match on *-cd-gui and I leave it as it is.
12:58:48 <TrueBrain> glx: then there is a mismatch between CF and suggested method :)
12:59:04 <TrueBrain> although the last few binaries produced by CF didn't have any branch prefix/postfix
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12:59:27 <TrueBrain> (just hg revision, which is unique enough)
13:00:07 <Rubidium> that's because they're the master of the hg/git repository and not a branch in said repositories
13:00:36 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: still, we had mercurials which defined a branch-name
13:00:44 <TrueBrain> which were prefixed, as far as I am aware :p
13:00:55 <TrueBrain> (not mercurial branch, but the name of the project :))
13:01:09 <Rubidium> the ones we compile don't though ;)
13:01:20 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: cargodest and head-to-head currently don't define it, no
13:01:35 <TrueBrain> but the naming of the files are <branch>-<revision>
13:01:45 <TrueBrain> maybe better naming: <subproject>-<revision>
13:02:00 <Rubidium> rather revision-branch
13:02:12 <TrueBrain> the naming of the files are <subproject>-<revision> Rubidium :)
13:02:26 <TrueBrain> openttd-cargodest-h3b244a8f-docs.tar.bz2
13:02:43 <TrueBrain> glx: they are 'branch' in the way we meant it, as if they wer ein SVN :) (just they are not in SVN :p)
13:02:55 <TrueBrain> that is why I suggest subproject as naming ;)
13:02:56 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that's not the version findversion gives them
13:03:00 <fonsinchen> Xaroth: Then it should already be ok. I'm not changing it.
13:03:02 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that just returns <revision>
13:03:04 <Xaroth> my point wasn't the naming of the builds, more like the naming of the revision to the client queries
13:03:06 <Rubidium> findversion uses REV="${REV}-$BRANCH"
13:03:14 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yes, that $BRANCH
13:03:18 <Rubidium> but only if it's a branch in the hg repository
13:03:31 <Xaroth> so if you run a h2h server the client will see that the server is running h2h-something or something-h2h ... instead of just something
13:03:45 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: my point here is, that there is no indication inside the client you are running, say, head-to-head
13:04:04 <TrueBrain> this is up to the maintainer of a 'subproject', as it needs rev.cpp.in changes
13:04:04 <Rubidium> just change rev.cpp.in ;)
13:04:13 <TrueBrain> now the question is, should that be a prefix or postfix
13:04:36 <TrueBrain> so there we have the nice desync
13:04:41 <TrueBrain> as CF makes binary names where it is a prefix
13:04:48 <TrueBrain> besides, postfix is a bit nasty, take fonsinchen case
13:04:50 <Yexo> -const char _openttd_revision[] = "@@VERSION@@";
13:04:50 <Yexo> +const char _openttd_revision[] = "@@VERSION@@-branchname";
13:04:53 <Yexo> is that the change needed?
13:04:59 <TrueBrain> <git version>-cdist-cd-gui
13:05:00 <Rubidium> for the CF prefix is fine
13:05:09 <Rubidium> for the binary it needs to be postfix
13:05:12 <TrueBrain> I tihnk it would be much more clear if we make the subproject a prefix
13:05:19 <TrueBrain> cdist-<git version>-cd-gui
13:05:21 <Rubidium> because in the network protocol the version is truncated
13:05:26 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: 15 chars, not?
13:05:34 <Rubidium> something like that yes
13:05:41 <TrueBrain> which gives enough room I guess
13:05:54 <glx> <TrueBrain> cdist-<git version>-cd-gui <-- that's just a silly rev string ;)
13:05:56 <TrueBrain> (as revisions are cut to 9 chars)
13:06:08 <TrueBrain> glx: why? <subproject>-<version>-<branch>
13:06:49 <Rubidium> cdist-h12345678- is more than 15 chars
13:06:50 <fonsinchen> I think <subproject>-<branch>-<version> is the most meaningful, readable and functional variant
13:07:09 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yes, everything behind it is not important anyway ;)
13:07:30 <Rubidium> well, isn't the branch that is important for you?
13:07:34 <fonsinchen> uh, you could play cargodist without GUI
13:07:39 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: for me, no :p
13:07:50 <TrueBrain> (as the branches have their unique revision anyway)
13:07:58 <TrueBrain> (we talk network-wise btw, for the record ;))
13:07:59 <fonsinchen> then you'd have cdist-<git rev>-flowmapping-vehload
13:08:12 <fonsinchen> but the last part will not be sent over the network
13:08:33 <petern> Gekz, hopefully they'll kill it off
13:08:38 * Rubidium doesn't really care about branches of branches though
13:08:44 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: exactly :)
13:08:53 <TrueBrain> as 2 branches are not compatible, network-wise, anyway
13:08:58 <Xaroth> it should just be branch-version
13:09:06 <TrueBrain> subproject-version, Xaroth
13:09:07 <Xaroth> but a 15 char version limit might be a bit.. short :P
13:09:07 <fonsinchen> well, then you can remove the branch string entirely
13:09:18 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: good enough :P
13:09:20 <TrueBrain> and limit the subproject to 5 chars
13:09:31 <TrueBrain> or check what the current value is for revision ;)
13:09:38 <Rubidium> for the network protocol the branch name should be last
13:09:47 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: branch or subproject name?
13:10:08 <Rubidium> what is a subproject?
13:10:16 <Rubidium> it's a branch of a branch, right?
13:10:18 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: That I try to tell for the last 5 minutes ;)
13:10:21 <TrueBrain> no, the other way around
13:10:24 <TrueBrain> head-to-head is a subproject
13:10:26 <TrueBrain> cargodest is a subproject
13:10:30 <TrueBrain> cargodist is a subproject
13:10:41 <Xaroth> is there a reason why version is bound to 15 chars/
13:10:42 <TrueBrain> cd-gui is a branch of cargodist
13:10:46 <Rubidium> that would've previously called a branch
13:10:52 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: network-protocol
13:10:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: a few minutes ago you told me that you would call cd-gui a branch
13:11:12 <Xaroth> er, aren't strings cut off by \0 anyhow?
13:11:12 <TrueBrain> I don't care how we call things, as long as we all understand what we talk about :p
13:11:13 <Rubidium> cd-gui is a branch of a branch
13:11:19 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: fine by me
13:11:27 <TrueBrain> so I suggest to make it <branch>-<revision>
13:11:33 <TrueBrain> if strlen(<branch>) <= 5
13:11:34 <Rubidium> for the network protocol?
13:11:36 <TrueBrain> it fits in revision
13:11:59 <glx> branch is just an indication
13:12:00 <Rubidium> just use revision-branch because that always 'fits'/gets truncated properly
13:12:21 <Xaroth> i'd opt for revision-branch
13:12:34 <TrueBrain> glx: indication, yes and no; first of all revisions don't have to be unique over such branches. Second, it makes filtering things via webtools much harder
13:12:42 <Xaroth> that way in a later addition you could increase the network protocol for longer branches (note, COULD), without breaking current clients
13:12:49 <Xaroth> branch names then would get cut off for older clients
13:13:09 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: weird argument ;)
13:13:19 <TrueBrain> if you change the length of such record, you need to bump the version anyway :)
13:13:23 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: but abcde-h12345678M 'overflows', so branch name may be up to 4 characters
13:13:31 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: fair enough
13:13:39 <Xaroth> yes, but how would you serve older clients? re-format it?
13:13:48 <Rubidium> which makes it more sensible to use revision-branch.
13:13:54 <Rubidium> that's equally simple to filter
13:14:15 <TrueBrain> but okay, fine by me .. I just keep on trying this every year or so :p
13:14:27 <TrueBrain> (already doing so for the past 3 years, so why stop this year? :))
13:14:56 <petern> lets me test ethernet bonding without getting locked out
13:15:26 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: btw, one thing (not related): we can send UDP packets of our MTU size, right?
13:15:29 <Rubidium> still, the next moron calls the branch "foo-bar-gui-tb"
13:15:40 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: assert_compile is your friend
13:15:53 <TrueBrain> SEND_MTU is 1460 for OpenTTD ..
13:16:20 <TrueBrain> hmm .. some random remark: when an UDP packet of that size passes any link of an MTU lower than 1460, the packet will be dropped (I know, it is a DAH)
13:16:36 <TrueBrain> a think to remember when getting bug reports about it :p
13:16:54 <TrueBrain> (about missing UDP packetS)
13:17:07 <TrueBrain> damn .. typing is SO HARD
13:17:10 <Xaroth> Rubidium: isn't it possible to increase the length for the version string? or will that break lots of stuffs
13:17:15 <Rubidium> so ditch UDP and only use TCP, right?
13:17:20 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: rather not :)
13:17:25 <TrueBrain> I don't think the MSU can operate on TCP :p
13:17:32 <TrueBrain> well .. currently it can :)
13:18:15 <TrueBrain> just I had to work with a few links at MTU 1420 and even 760 a few days ago, noticed some UDP software failed to work :)
13:18:52 <petern> MTU path discovery failing?
13:19:01 <TrueBrain> petern: we don't discover the MTU :p
13:19:08 <TrueBrain> we just send packets of size 1460 (in worst case)
13:21:00 <petern> just reimplement TCP in UDP and pretend it's still UDP
13:21:08 <petern> and iron out all the bugs
13:23:26 <TrueBrain> lol, Forked missed what petern meant ;)
13:23:42 <Forked> I suddenly wasn't sure if "seems" was an actual word or not in the English language :\
13:23:48 <Forked> but I got it.. he is. ;)
13:25:06 <TrueBrain> (btw, above MTU problem mostly happens on OS Windows up to 2k :p Go figure ... ;))
13:25:24 * petern ponders just deleting his posts, hehe
13:25:30 <Cutter> since I've switched to 0.7, my trains are all configured to "Go without stopping" on all stations, but they stop anyway to load and unload
13:25:43 <Gekz> dbg: [grf] [2cc_trainset.beta_2.02/2ccdj.grf:1] ReserveChangeInfo: Invalid pseudo sprite length 4 (expected 6)!
13:25:46 <Gekz> dbg: [grf] [2cc_trainset.beta_2.02/2ccdj.grf:1] FeatureChangeInfo: Invalid pseudo sprite length 4 (expected 6)!
13:26:28 <Gekz> I made a couple of trams and crap
13:26:33 <Gekz> walked back in 4 hours later
13:28:09 <Quarks> you probably have "non-stop" orders
13:28:16 <Quarks> it doesnt mean trains don't stop at the stations
13:28:48 <Quarks> it means they will go to the specific station without stopping on the way there (even if passing through other stations)
13:29:54 <Cutter> I'll read the manual to learn more about the new orders
13:32:39 <glx> maybe you want to use "go via station"
13:36:38 <TrueBrain> richk has a WEIRD perception of 'enthousiastic' I think :)
13:37:03 <glx> also a weird perception of finished ;)
13:37:23 <Quarks> if i add original vehicles names as a static newgrf, does this mean everybody who wants to join needs to have it as well?
13:38:10 <petern> how does that work when it comes to renaming vehicles?
13:39:42 <glx> I guess it works like it did when it was a language
13:43:31 <petern> ah well, renaming vehicles is stupid anyway
13:53:26 <TrueBrain> I need a faster computer for this WT3 job :(
13:53:31 <TrueBrain> takes for ever to rerun an import :(
14:00:54 <Quarks> what kind of a computer do you have?
14:01:47 <TrueBrain> the only square part is the USB connector
14:01:53 <TrueBrain> a Dell Studio Hybrid, look it up
14:02:04 <TrueBrain> s/square/rectangle/
14:02:16 <TrueBrain> anyway, T5750 as core
14:02:26 <TrueBrain> so it is okay .. just WT3 is a massive database :(
14:03:12 <TrueBrain> 150,000+ translated lines, 35,000+ of history over 1000+ revisions ... pfff ...
14:03:14 <dihedral> well - if you like that box :-D
14:03:47 <glx> not easily upgradable I think
14:03:55 <TrueBrain> not an important factor
14:04:08 <TrueBrain> I just buy a new one when needed :p
14:04:12 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the new "related" function just rocks
14:04:27 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: tnx :)
14:04:44 <planetmaker> thanks to it there are another 76 strings updated today :O
14:04:46 <TrueBrain> today I hope to finish the search function .. if this darn import tells me it is okay :p
14:04:51 <glx> test server is currently broken btw ;)
14:05:39 <glx> and it always shows me language 12 only
14:05:50 <TrueBrain> glx: it doesn't even show you :p It is a stupid hard-link :)
14:05:58 <TrueBrain> change the number to what ever you like to change to what ever language you like :p
14:06:12 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, an idea: the previous and next buttons: maybe they could wrap from 0 to max_string and vice versa?
14:06:23 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: wouldn't that be confusing?
14:06:47 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, I've usually no idea what string number I'm editing anyway...
14:07:10 <planetmaker> it would sometimes make accessibility easier
14:07:10 <TrueBrain> but the first and last ... well .. I guess I can make it wrap :p
14:07:15 <TrueBrain> although that would rarely happen :)
14:07:42 <planetmaker> I guess it became only obvious to me as search wasn't implemented ;)
14:09:20 <planetmaker> I'm curious though: how does the "related" thing work exactly?
14:09:34 <planetmaker> e.g. what is actually considered related?
14:09:46 <TrueBrain> it looks up each english word of length > 3 in every other english string
14:10:06 <TrueBrain> if the lengths of those strings match exactly, no penalty is given, else for every char difference 1 penalty point
14:10:14 <TrueBrain> and for every word that matches, 10 bonux points are given
14:10:17 <planetmaker> petern, it can be useful, yes
14:10:18 <TrueBrain> _very_ simpel model
14:10:54 <glx> planetmaker: that's why some related strings are not related :)
14:11:04 <TrueBrain> there is always at least one word in it
14:11:27 <TrueBrain> any better algorithms are btw VERY welcome
14:11:33 <TrueBrain> no matter how much CPU it requires :)
14:11:59 <TrueBrain> "{WHITE}Not enough cash - requires {CURRENCY}" relates to "Game unpaused (enough players)"
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14:12:28 <planetmaker> Today I would have wished for something which gives me all cargos the game knows.
14:12:34 <Ihmemies> Is double-size still supposed to work in 0.7 (ctrl+d) or was it removed?
14:12:58 <planetmaker> But another day I'd look for all strings which somehow are related ... online content...
14:13:06 <Ihmemies> and no one still has had the need to implement a new gui :P oh well
14:13:21 <Ihmemies> i suppose this game isn't just for blind people
14:13:38 <TrueBrain> lol ... if you are blind, the game is pretty useless anyway :p
14:13:47 <TrueBrain> maybe we should make beeps depending on where the mouse is
14:14:00 <Forked> make it voice controlled
14:14:05 <planetmaker> Not sure there's a solution to find always all of those strings - at least I haven't always found all related ones... or not much similarity between them in order to obtain them with a single query...
14:14:17 <TrueBrain> I wonder why people want CTRL+d for 'blindness' .. they ever considered changing the resolution of their screen? :p
14:14:40 <glx> works only for fullscreen :)
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14:15:07 <glx> and some lcd screens just put black borders when you change resolution
14:15:46 <TrueBrain> stupid Spanish language .. they use "masculino" as gender, instead of the suggested "m" and "f" ..
14:16:08 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, German doesn't use "f" either as I found out...
14:16:21 <TrueBrain> it kills my site design!! :(
14:16:46 <planetmaker> German uses "w" instead of "f" - and then of course "n".
14:17:22 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r16099 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: re-re-introduce textdir for all languages (and this time WT2 should not remove it on next commit)
14:17:43 <planetmaker> glx, ah... I wondered :)
14:19:43 <glx> and maybe one day f2 will be needed
14:21:15 <TrueBrain> "{BLACK}Centreer hoofdbeeld op de vliegtuiglocatie" vs "{BLACK}Centreer hoofdscherm op de locatie van het voertuig"
14:21:25 <planetmaker> I think the problem I had earlier is rather not a gender issue but that uncountable things need different treatment. I misuse now the female gender for that... but beware the day the gender of "goods",... is needed. It will fail horribly
14:21:27 <TrueBrain> who can I complain to about this 'inconsistancy' of dutch language? :p
14:22:07 <pavel1269> TB: anyone? :P bot noone will answer ;)
14:22:22 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
14:22:38 <planetmaker> hm... DorpsGek won't say "me" to that question :D
14:22:43 <DorpsGek> glx: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
14:22:46 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you are right, the related function is nice ;) It shows a lot of such inconsistancies in a relative simple and fast way :)
14:22:48 <planetmaker> wise decision probably ;)
14:22:51 <DorpsGek> glx: I don't recognize you.
14:22:55 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, exactly :)
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14:24:29 <glx> [16:23:57] <glx> hostmask list
14:24:29 <glx> [16:23:57] <DorpsGek> 'glx*!?glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:*' and 'glx*!?glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net'
14:25:02 <TrueBrain> glx: maybe he doesn't understand the IPv6 ..
14:25:04 <Forked> hmm.. might be the question mark in the ident
14:25:14 <Forked> it expects one sign there
14:25:27 <DorpsGek> glx: glx!glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:4ca3:894c:5c:2f90
14:25:29 <Forked> so "aglx" as ident would have worked, or just the ~ when identd is not running
14:25:51 <Forked> or unreachable.. yeah * too, but wildcards are evil :p
14:27:02 <glx> some days it works though
14:27:11 <TrueBrain> bah, local import still running, getting boring .. going to do some shopping or what ever :p
14:27:20 <TrueBrain> glx: you ident is now 'glx'
14:27:22 <TrueBrain> that might be the problem?
14:27:34 <TrueBrain> that is expects a char before 'glx' .. which isn't there ;)
14:27:46 <glx> it's like that since I use IPv6
14:27:47 <Forked> like I tried to say.. :\ except I used the word "sign" instead of char. bah
14:28:11 <TrueBrain> Forked: ah, I assumed you were talking about the hostmask, but you meant his current ident too ;)
14:28:26 <Forked> thats why I typed "ident" :p
14:28:54 <TrueBrain> name!ident@host ;) Ghehe :)
14:30:10 <TrueBrain> is .style.visibility="hidden" CSS1?
14:30:32 <TrueBrain> I guess I can look that up myself :p
14:32:09 <glx> [16:31:47] <glx> unidentify
14:32:09 <glx> [16:31:47] <DorpsGek> The operation succeeded. If you remain recognized after giving this command, you're being recognized by hostmask, rather than by password. You must remove whatever hostmask is causing you to be recognized in order not to be recognized.
14:32:09 <glx> [16:31:55] <glx> @say #openttd test
14:32:32 <Forked> "You must remove whatever hostmask is causing you to be recognized in order not to be recognized." ..what?
14:32:58 <jonty-comp> Is DorpsGek supybot? D:
14:33:01 <TrueBrain> that you need to put on new clothes before I stop recognizing you by your smell
14:33:24 <pavel1269> tb: his ip doed not smell :P
14:33:38 <TrueBrain> pavel1269: try using the <Tab> button :p
14:33:51 <pavel1269> TrueBrain: wanna be highlited?
14:33:58 <TrueBrain> if you want to talk to me: yes
14:34:08 <TrueBrain> # You talking to me?
14:34:30 <pavel1269> TrueBrain: you dont like "tb" ? :-)
14:35:01 <Forked> isn't that short for some illness? =p
14:35:16 <jonty-comp> only because nobody can spell the long name
14:35:27 <Forked> I copy&pasted it just fine!
14:36:18 <Forked> heh nice.. tbalert.org .. warning, warning! TB is around!1
14:36:34 <jonty-comp> hastbdestroyedtheworldyet.com
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14:38:49 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: complain to Yexo?
14:39:59 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
14:41:01 <TrueBrain> Yexo: I complain to you
14:46:06 *** kingj is now known as KingJ
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14:51:16 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: could give you a WT2 account ;)
14:51:26 *** goodger_ has joined #openttd
14:51:28 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I personally rather die :p
14:51:31 <TrueBrain> haha, no I take that back :)
14:51:34 <TrueBrain> I just liked that comment :p
14:56:20 <Quarks> is there a way to change difficulty options in a running game?
14:57:05 <Belugas> is there a way to find out apart asking? ;)
14:57:38 <dihedral> glx: will that work on a running game?
14:57:56 <Quarks> i know you can change patch settings
14:58:16 <glx> difficulty is modifiable too
14:58:34 <glx> and there are no patch settings ;)
15:00:40 <Quarks> you know what i meant glx -.-
15:00:54 <Quarks> and the console command is still "patch" not "advanced_settings"
15:01:22 <Rubidium> Quarks: the console command is settings
15:01:32 <Rubidium> aliases for settings are set and patch
15:01:46 <Quarks> but there is no adv alias :D
15:02:12 <Quarks> how do i change the difficulty setting "trains reverse"?
15:03:51 <Rubidium> type settings difficulty and then figure out which one you need to change
15:05:37 <glx> and you should find it's "set line_reverse_mode" ;)
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15:07:00 <Quarks> i just didnt know it was possible
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15:16:13 <TrueBrain> GRRRR!!! My table refuses to wrap entries :(
15:16:32 <Quarks> Counter-Strike: Source... ;)
15:17:27 <Quarks> i have another noob question so please dont yell at me
15:17:44 <Quarks> ... has left the game (wrong company ID in do-command) mean?
15:25:52 <glx> restarted server with connected clients?
15:28:06 <dihedral> that happens when a client sends the wrong company id in a command
15:28:33 <dihedral> i.e. it can happen if a client sends a new company thingy twice in a row
15:28:52 <dihedral> and i dont know yet how to postpone it neatly
15:28:58 <petern> i.e. it can happen when the server is restarted with connected clients
15:29:03 <dihedral> or rather how to not send that command twice
15:29:34 <dihedral> when the server restarts with connected clients (e.g. newgame command) clients are disconnected and they join again automatically
15:29:40 <dihedral> but with a new company id
15:29:54 <dihedral> that error does not happen then
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15:30:58 <dihedral> i've never seen it happen in that situation
15:31:38 <petern> hey, i've never killed someone by speeding
15:31:42 <petern> i guess it's not possible to do so
15:31:58 <Digitalfox> It's been some months since my last visit here, but good afternoon everyone :)
15:32:35 <dihedral> petern, i have restarted servers many times with connected clients.... then i should probably have seen that error a few times before, ey?
15:33:46 <petern> and people speed a lot without killing someone
15:35:59 <TrueBrain> grr .. who knows a thing or two about MySQL MATCH function?
15:36:39 <TrueBrain> STR_CREATE_LAKE is a string I am doing a MATCH on
15:36:47 <TrueBrain> LAKE doesn't give a match
15:36:53 <TrueBrain> LAKE* neither, *LAKE neither
15:36:59 <Rubidium> does it have a FULLTEXT index?
15:36:59 <TrueBrain> what use is this 'MATCH' to me :(
15:37:09 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: good question ...
15:37:23 <TrueBrain> dihedral: I talk about MATCH, not LIKE
15:38:06 <Rubidium> though it could very well be that it searches for full 'words' and it doesn't see _ as separator
15:38:17 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: str_* does give tons of results
15:38:31 <Xaroth> use MATCH() AGAINST() AS score ?
15:38:38 <Xaroth> and you'll see the score of the match?
15:38:49 <TrueBrain> it goes via Django, which makes that slightly more complex
15:39:17 <TrueBrain> either way, the problem seems related to this: STR_00* works, but *00* doesn't
15:40:25 <Xaroth> are you using the boolean modifiers then?
15:40:40 <TrueBrain> I wonder if I can see what the real SQL query is, it executes ..
15:41:33 <TrueBrain> so * is only a postfix operator
15:42:18 <TrueBrain> useless piece of crap
15:43:07 <Rubidium> The argument to AGAINST() must be a constant string
15:43:17 <Rubidium> sounds like * is not possible in either case
15:43:22 <Xaroth> hmm, only the annoying bit left to build on AutoTTD :/
15:43:26 <Rubidium> maybe django works around that by just chopping it off
15:43:31 <TrueBrain> Find rows that contain words such as “apple”, “apples”, “applesauce”, or “applet”.
15:43:52 <TrueBrain> so * works fine, as postfix
15:43:56 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: think LIKE searches actually work better on this :/
15:44:11 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: yeah ...... sucks either way :)
15:44:19 <TrueBrain> as then I need to split the string myself, combine it, score it ...
15:44:28 <Rubidium> Words match if they begin with the word preceding the * operator
15:44:46 <TrueBrain> as maybe I search for "create lake"
15:44:50 <TrueBrain> that should return STR_CREATE_LAKE
15:44:58 <Rubidium> so * is only allowed after a word, not before it
15:45:10 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: postfix, yes, that I say for a while now
15:45:17 <TrueBrain> which makes the MATCH stuff a bit crappy
15:45:20 <Digitalfox> Hi TrueBrain how are you? Can you give me a tip on why uploading png to the wiki get's them all blurry! ;)
15:45:35 <TrueBrain> Digitalfox: Hi! :) I am fine :) And I don't have a single clue
15:46:20 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: what about the preview being resized?
15:47:06 <Digitalfox> hi Rubidium, that's odd when I upload it got all blurry but now seems fine
15:47:51 <TrueBrain> any suggestions for the search stuff?
15:49:26 <TrueBrain> by using LIKE too, I can make it work fine for single words .. just using 2 words kind of fails :(
15:49:34 <TrueBrain> why is MATCH so stupid :( I expected more of it ...
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15:50:42 <TrueBrain> bug in firefox: when reloading it doesn't re-disable buttons when needed :p
15:51:44 <Xaroth> only the annoying part left to build for the first test of AutoTTD .. hopefully I can get that done tonight :/
15:52:15 <Rubidium> fine tuning mysql full-test search is funny ;)
15:52:20 <Rubidium> "You can exert more control over full-text searching behavior if you have a MySQL source distribution because some changes require source code modifications"
15:52:39 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: combine a LIKE on the STR_stuff and a MATCH on the value of those?
15:52:52 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: if I search for 'create lake'
15:53:00 <TrueBrain> I expect it to find STR_CREATE_LAKE
15:53:02 <TrueBrain> how to approach that?
15:53:06 <TrueBrain> MATCH doesn't find it
15:53:29 <TrueBrain> should still match, not?
15:53:36 <TrueBrain> so I need to split the string based on " "
15:53:42 <TrueBrain> and somehow combine that in a query
15:53:43 <Xaroth> that would, indeed, suck :P
15:53:58 <TrueBrain> one might expect 'match' does that for you :(
15:54:00 <Xaroth> split on " " and make a fancy query that requires all of them in? :P
15:54:05 <petern> where foo like '%create%' and foo like '%lake%'
15:54:07 <Xaroth> and yeh, match SHOULD do that for you :/
15:54:46 <TrueBrain> but no, match only matches whole words ... how useless ...
15:55:26 <TrueBrain> planetmaker / Yexo / glx: search function is 'working' in WT3, please test-drive ;)
15:56:25 <Rubidium> select t.* from (select id, replace(strid, '_', ' ') as strid, replace(replace(translation, '}', ' '), '{', '') as translation from translations) as t WHERE match (t.strid, t.translation) against(lake create)
15:56:34 <TrueBrain> Yexo: dutch is very inconsistant :p STR_8866_CAN_T_NAME_TRAIN against STR_9832_CAN_T_NAME_SHIP for example
15:56:54 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: now I search for 'creat lake'
15:57:01 <TrueBrain> in my opinion, it should STILL find STR_CREATE_LAKE
15:57:03 <glx> and way better than WT2 ;)
15:57:19 <TrueBrain> glx: interface also workable?
15:58:17 <planetmaker> STR_NETWORK_CLIENTS_CAPTION_TIP: {BLACK}Teilnehmer anwesend / max.<-- why do I get that when I search for "online content"?
15:59:29 <glx> because "online" is in english string
15:59:36 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: because it is MATCH .. it looks for "online" and "content"
15:59:44 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: Dutch is very inconsistant, period :P
15:59:49 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: use +online +content
15:59:59 <dihedral> Xaroth, that was no dutch!
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16:00:04 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: true .. the translation even more :p
16:00:06 <planetmaker> hm... in the English translation, yes. But it didn't show me in the search results.
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16:00:36 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: auto save doesn't return autosave (for spanish)
16:00:44 <planetmaker> Do I have the possibility to limit the search to English translation / String_ID / My Translation ?
16:00:52 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: MATCH sucks .. suggestions? :)
16:00:55 <planetmaker> or a selection thereof?
16:01:06 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: there is no room to show both string, english and translation
16:01:39 <TrueBrain> (there is NO real saving, nor is it complete, nor is it functional)
16:01:46 <glx> planetmaker: why do you want to limit?
16:02:05 <glx> I hate the limitation in WT2
16:02:32 <Rubidium> searching is seriously hindered by 'old' string ids
16:03:03 <planetmaker> glx, sometimes it's very useful to limit it to only IDs or translation. E.g. I remember a stringID part
16:03:06 <Rubidium> STR_02F7_OFF <- ideally returned when searching for autosave ;)
16:03:19 <planetmaker> or a part of a string in my language. Then I only want those strings.
16:03:42 <planetmaker> btw, TrueBrain search for "Öl" in the German translation. The results are... weired.
16:03:42 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: 'autosave'?
16:04:01 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: searches are case-insensitive
16:04:03 <planetmaker> at least I wouldn't expect strings with coke etc in it.
16:04:06 <TrueBrain> this means it searched for "ol"
16:04:21 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, that's a big difference, o, ö, etc...
16:04:31 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: not on (any) database level
16:04:35 <planetmaker> and it is IMO nothing to do with case...
16:04:54 <Rubidium> replace all umlauts with their written out counterpart
16:05:10 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: anyway, if you don't agree, you need to file a complain to MySQL :)
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16:05:19 <TrueBrain> not something I can and will be able to fix ;)
16:05:29 <planetmaker> uhm... so, how do I search for "Öl" - without getting "gold", too?
16:05:39 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: simple: +Ol - gold
16:05:50 <planetmaker> glx, same problem as öl :)
16:05:58 <TrueBrain> glx: you want to sum up all replaced chars? Good luck ;)
16:06:17 <TrueBrain> ALL searches are case insensitive
16:06:31 <TrueBrain> which does not limit itself to Ö and é ;)
16:06:43 <TrueBrain> and case insensitivity at DB levels, means ASCII matching ;)
16:06:47 <glx> hmm and it's impossible to return to the search page
16:06:50 <planetmaker> ... that's not case. It's ascii only
16:07:00 <TrueBrain> glx: try pressing the big SEARCH button between Prev and Next ;)
16:07:42 <planetmaker> that's nice indeed.
16:07:53 <glx> I though it would reset the search
16:07:55 <TrueBrain> did you really miss that button? :p
16:09:03 <TrueBrain> small update; reload page ;)
16:09:15 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, a search for Umlaute or alike works with the old translator - though not case sensitive.
16:09:24 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: good for WT2 :)
16:09:30 <TrueBrain> won't happen for WT3: MySQL doesn't allow me
16:09:38 <TrueBrain> and if you don't like it, file a complain upstream (MySQL)
16:09:40 <planetmaker> Honestly, I'll dearly miss that, if I cannot search for certain words
16:09:46 <TrueBrain> we can talk about that for ages .. but it is not fixiable :)
16:09:57 <planetmaker> ... so... how does the old one work?
16:10:39 <TrueBrain> I wonder why "Öl" doesn't work
16:10:51 <TrueBrain> onthing between "" seems to work :(
16:11:14 <TrueBrain> petern: better suggestion?
16:11:23 <TrueBrain> I asked for a better suggestion :p
16:11:32 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, what about a configurable limit to the number of return values?
16:11:46 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I was more thinking about a 'next' and 'prev' at the bottom
16:12:10 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, well. Just as good. Like google return pages, yes
16:12:26 <TrueBrain> although google caches the result
16:12:29 <petern> sqlite is better than mysql
16:12:35 <petern> at least it doesn't have pretensions of being great
16:12:38 <TrueBrain> if the data changes when pressing next/prev, you will get other results ;)
16:12:45 <TrueBrain> petern: on that, I agree :)
16:12:50 <TrueBrain> glx: you pay the license? :p
16:13:00 <TrueBrain> hmm .. it seems the search is now totally borked ..
16:14:01 <TrueBrain> petern: postgresql is running for WT2 .. I find it rather impossible to do anything in it .. so much more complex and annoying
16:14:21 <TrueBrain> but okay, the whole website is independed of the SQL backend (it even works on SQLite)
16:15:00 <petern> more complex due to more features
16:15:02 <TrueBrain> MATCH has trouble with small text :p
16:15:12 <TrueBrain> petern: well .. the problems start that it demands a seperate account
16:15:14 <petern> and mysql is still fucking shit
16:15:17 <TrueBrain> from which you can operate the whole thing ...
16:15:37 <petern> it runs as its own user... like any over db server...
16:15:42 <TrueBrain> that are two different things
16:15:46 <TrueBrain> I can control MySQL from any user
16:15:50 <TrueBrain> I can control SQLite from any user
16:16:03 <petern> i can control postgresql from any user
16:16:13 <TrueBrain> not by default my friend .. not by default ...
16:16:21 <MapperOG> oracle controls mysql now :p
16:16:28 <TrueBrain> good for them MapperOG
16:16:42 <petern> hopefully they'll kill the fucking piece of shit off
16:16:49 <orudge> you really don't like mysql, eh? :p
16:16:54 * orudge has generally not had any problems with mysql,
16:17:09 <TrueBrain> it works fine; just don't try advanced features :)
16:17:11 <orudge> sure, there may be "better" databases, but mysql is more than adaquete for many things
16:17:35 <petern> i have on several occasions lost data to mysql
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16:17:46 <TrueBrain> I never lost any data with MySQL :)
16:17:57 <TrueBrain> (including power-failures, disk-crashes and user-stupidity :p)
16:18:11 <TrueBrain> although I do always disable the 'passive' connect of MySQL :p
16:18:16 <TrueBrain> but that is kind of unrelated :)
16:19:33 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I can also make the search of WT3 'regexp' ? :)
16:20:04 <Zr40> then you're lucky, TrueBrain
16:20:09 <orudge> What does/will WT3 do that WT2 doesn't, may I enquire? :p
16:20:22 <orudge> useful aspect of a system
16:20:30 <petern> and therefore loses some searching ability
16:20:30 <TrueBrain> ask Rubidium for the stats, but it uses an insane amount of memory
16:20:42 * petern ponders starting WT4, continuing with postgresql
16:21:04 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, honestly, a translation system which treats non-ascii characters as their closest ascii characters is... something one really has to get used to.
16:21:21 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I think you will notice it ..... 1 out of the 1000 times :p
16:21:44 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: currently it is just MATCH which is screwing with you
16:22:34 <TrueBrain> orudge: WT2 had several downsides, of which a few are: 1) nobody understands the code (overcomplicated), 2) it doesn't think SVN is always right, 3) it is hard to change anything in it, 4) nobody understands the code, 5) it uses an insane amount of memory, 6) it is very slow, 7) search in WT2 is fucked (ask any translator), ...
16:23:12 <petern> at least you have the code now
16:23:17 <TrueBrain> I am sure it would have been great if MiHaMiX was still around to help maintaining it :)
16:23:22 <glx> TrueBrain: about 7), but it works with non-ascii ;)
16:23:39 <petern> maybe it would've been great if the source was available from the start
16:23:44 <TrueBrain> lol :) This is how people are ... you can make 1000 great things, but they will bitch about that tiny bit missing ;)
16:24:13 <glx> anyway with WT2 I can't translate 1 string
16:24:35 <TrueBrain> the main annoyance for me is that WT2 doesn't think SVN is always right .. it tends to revert changes :p
16:24:38 <petern> one particular string or just any one? :p
16:24:47 <petern> yeah, that's an annoyance
16:25:03 <petern> and mihamix was of the opinion that WT2 was canon
16:26:04 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: here, try the search now
16:27:19 <glx> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_STOP_LOCATION :{LTBLUE}Les nouveaux ordres arrêtent les trains {G au au "à la"} {ORANGE}{STRING}{LTBLUE} du quai par défaut <-- WT2 thinks {G} is not valid
16:27:20 <TrueBrain> "^{WHITE}" <- is now valid :p
16:28:05 <dihedral> @url -from TrueBrain
16:28:09 <dihedral> @url last -from TrueBrain
16:28:22 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, but now it's somewhat inconsistant that case is considered for umlauts, but not for usual characters.
16:28:23 <TrueBrain> just now it won't work to search for 2 words ...
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16:28:33 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: sorry?
16:28:44 <planetmaker> Öl and öl return different searches
16:29:44 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I have no idea what fucked that up ...
16:30:10 <planetmaker> nice would be a way to search for whole words only :)
16:30:24 <planetmaker> well... sometimes, I guess.
16:31:04 <TrueBrain> I doubt we can get the Google Search stuff to put inside WT3 :p
16:31:11 <TrueBrain> so it will never be perfect :)
16:31:20 <TrueBrain> the only real question here is: is it good enough
16:32:49 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: anyway, stupid enough, MySQL can't do case insenstive REGEXP searches, so it seems .. and then it does seem Ö and O as different chars ...
16:33:22 <TrueBrain> although "ol" matches "Öl" ...
16:34:15 <TrueBrain> main problem with this 'regexp' search, is that you can't 'rate' results
16:34:22 <TrueBrain> so the list is ordered on string-number
16:36:04 <TrueBrain> btw, planetmaker, revision 14325 seems a javascript bug :) It is correct in the DB
16:38:04 <Steve^> Hullo, is there a way to make clone train create shared orders?
16:38:26 <Steve^> I'm not playing TTD, I'm doing my dissertation
16:38:55 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the wrong time of the string I mentioned Friday?
16:38:57 <Steve^> hmm, that sounds logical
16:39:06 <Steve^> given I've been Goto + CTRL instead
16:39:16 <planetmaker> right. Stupid Java
16:39:28 <Steve^> So, has TTDPatch bitten the bullet?
16:39:34 <orudge> TTDPatch is still around
16:39:43 <orudge> it's even having patches written for it occasionally
16:39:52 <orudge> but for the most part, it's rather stagnant
16:39:58 <orudge> Lakie I think wrote some stuff recently
16:40:25 * orudge hasn't played TTD in general in ages
16:40:32 <orudge> but when I do play TTD these days, it's OpenTTD
16:40:36 <orudge> he's not retired as such
16:40:38 <orudge> he's just... not active
16:40:43 <orudge> (he's still around in #tycoon)
16:41:31 <orudge> oh, the phoenixscripts one?
16:41:37 <orudge> that thread in general probably needs a big ol' upate
16:41:54 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the more I search, the more I like the possibility to limit the search to stringID, translation or English original or combinations thereof (e.g as check boxes which are not mutually exclusive, default: all checked)
16:42:14 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: fine by me; I will see how I can fit it there :)
16:42:20 <Steve^> I see OpenTTD is separating itself from the TTD grfs
16:42:25 <Steve^> for legal reasons I assume
16:43:17 <orudge> by having our own graphics (and sound) set, OpenTTD will be able to be distributed as an independent game
16:45:11 <Steve^> and get it in Ubuntu repositories!
16:45:30 <Steve^> is doesn't seem to be in Jaunty
16:47:01 <orudge> it's in multiverse, I believe
16:47:44 <Steve^> ooops, I see where I went wrong
16:47:59 <Steve^> I had "intrepid" selected on the homepage when I searched
16:48:05 <orudge> it is far too hot here
16:48:15 <Steve^> and when only the intrepid (highlighted in bold) thing popped up, I made an assumption!
16:48:18 <orudge> of course, it's only 0.6.3 in jaunty
16:48:27 <orudge> but you can get an 0.7.0 deb from openttd.org
16:50:10 <Belugas> richk67 and his filty big mouth
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17:06:17 <glx> TrueBrain: I can't search for strings with a gender (ie {G=)
17:09:44 <batti5> i have a suggestion, 3 way roads, on uphill, you can set them, slow trucks go on 1 line, fast trucks on lne 3 the comming downhill trucks, its a good idea?
17:10:32 <dihedral> rv's can overtake easily, you can setup 2 x one way road next to eachother
17:11:13 <batti5> never mind, just trying to be helpfull.
17:13:51 <TrueBrain> glx: yup; in WT3 genders ar enot part of the string
17:14:26 <Rubidium> Belugas: don't worry about richk; just ignore him flaming us for not seeing him as the middle of the universe
17:14:52 <Belugas> i was under the wrong impression...
17:15:45 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, uhm... where are they then?
17:16:04 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: in a seperate field in the table, like cases ;)
17:16:31 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, that's the database side. The translator side looks different.
17:16:48 <Rubidium> is that your counter rant on richk's we didn't commit his all-ground-types proof-of-concept hack?
17:16:55 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you did notice the option box in front of the translate string, stating each Gender, right?
17:17:12 <planetmaker> uhm... yes. Friday. And I forgot :P
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17:21:30 <dihedral> it's my counter rant to ricks complaining wherever he can that some dev not going on a date with him ^^
17:21:51 <Belugas> over my dead cold body
17:22:50 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, problem with that approach: STR_303F_NO_LONGER_ACCEPTS_OR
17:23:04 <planetmaker> ^^ that string needs two genders, defined seperately
17:23:28 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: that my friend we call cases
17:23:28 <Belugas> suggetion: switch to english!
17:23:54 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you seem to have a vast misunderstanding of genders and cases :)
17:23:57 <planetmaker> Belugas, I was rather asking TrueBrain :)
17:24:23 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, hm... yes.
17:24:30 <planetmaker> Belugas, no, it's fine :)
17:24:35 <dihedral> <Belugas> over my dead cold body <- rick himself would probably not mind being 'under' :-D
17:24:51 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: so please read that wiki page about it over and over and over, till you understand the difference :)
17:25:19 <glx> planetmaker: {G=...} != {G ...}
17:25:24 <planetmaker> yeah. I need food, I guess. Then I can think better again
17:25:36 <planetmaker> sorry for putting my confusion here :)
17:25:48 <TrueBrain> not a problem :) We keep bashing you back to reality ;)
17:25:51 <Rubidium> dihedral: it's not rick, it's richard or richk
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17:26:03 <planetmaker> good to know. It's better living there than on cloud 9
17:27:47 <TrueBrain> I think that depends on the weather
17:28:26 <Belugas> when you work inside :)
17:28:31 <Belugas> and it's sunny outside!
17:28:35 <Rubidium> Belugas: I think the wiring of your shift key is shorting with one of the other wires
17:29:07 <Belugas> naaaa... greasy fingers after lunch hehehe
17:30:47 <planetmaker> :) Dinner time! cu after dinner then :)
17:31:31 * Rubidium ponders highlighting him ;)
17:31:32 <petern> i'd go on a date with Belugas
17:33:16 <petern> as in a tour date of a mutually enjoyed band
17:33:29 <petern> alas the lack of common location prevents such things
17:33:55 <Rubidium> 22.86 cm pieces of metal?
17:34:31 <Belugas> me too petern, as well as the tour of the bars!
17:36:29 <petern> Rubidium, yeah, of that creature from gremlins
17:38:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r16100 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
17:38:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-04-20 17:38:22
17:38:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by tucalipe (1)
17:38:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by habell (1)
17:38:49 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: english_US - 1 fixed by WhiteRabbit (1)
17:38:49 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: estonian - 14 fixed, 75 changed by kristjans (89)
17:38:51 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: german - 1 fixed, 79 changed by planetmaker (79), hellow (1)
17:39:22 <Rubidium> planetmaker: any idea why STR_0008_WAITING has two spaces?
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17:39:36 <TrueBrain> why did WT2 accept that?
17:40:16 <Rubidium> probably because it happens quite often in english.txt too
17:40:33 <TrueBrain> should it ever be valid, to enter two spaces?
17:40:47 <Belugas> petern, i will cross the ocean one day. Let say in the next 5 years. So... hang on ;)
17:41:04 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: sadly enough yes
17:41:14 <TrueBrain> you have an example for me?
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17:41:39 <Rubidium> (very very bad example)
17:42:27 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r16101 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup (r14591): Remove an assertion to increase performance.
17:43:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: okay, maybe this answer I will like more: any translation which has two spaces where the english doesn't?
17:43:07 <Rubidium> the news list seems tob e using double spaces
17:43:25 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I guess not
17:43:47 <TrueBrain> see, that I like more :p
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17:56:45 <Steve^> You can't have path based pre signals?
17:57:22 <Steve^> I have path based infront of my station, but it doesn't wait for a free platform
17:57:33 <Steve^> just drives up to a closed one
17:57:38 <petern> then you're not placing pbs signals properly :)
17:58:28 <Steve^> do I need 2 way signals infront of platforms?
17:58:37 <petern> only place them where a train should be able to wait
17:58:58 <petern> you don't need any signals in front (behind, Sacro?) of the platform
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18:00:28 <pavel1269> btw, whats WT2? :-)
18:01:54 <Steve^> PBS clears the path as the train moves down it, but sets everything infront of the train as soon as the path is set?
18:05:38 <Steve^> petern, why don't I need signals infront of the platform?
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18:09:51 <Steve^> ok, maybe it does work
18:19:31 <petern> cos it works differently to the old style of signals
18:19:44 <planetmaker> Rubidium: thanks for the hint to STR_0008_WAITING. Fixed
18:21:00 <planetmaker> quite annoying if one thinks "oh, on my way home I can get the food in the usual store" only in order to find it closed since Saturday :(
18:21:41 * Rubidium kicks the CIA-9 for not informing planetmaker
18:21:46 <TrueBrain> trans = Translation.objects.get(language__pk = language, baseString__order = id)
18:21:47 <TrueBrain> res = res.filter(revision__revision__gte = trans.revision.revision, baseString__order__gte = id).order_by("revision__revision", "baseString__order")
18:21:49 <TrueBrain> find the error ... :(
18:22:27 <planetmaker> oh, it's the bot's task to spot translator's mistakes? :D
18:22:56 <Rubidium> no, informing you about closures of shops
18:23:11 <Steve^> I don't suppose theres a way to make trains with shared, timetabled orders to spread out a bit?
18:23:19 <Rubidium> why is it called the central intelligence agency if it doesn't act on that?
18:23:29 <Rubidium> it's a piece of vital intelligence, right?
18:23:40 <planetmaker> true. Actually they should rather go shoping for me then ;)
18:30:12 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: can you check for me something? Try German language and search for "suche"
18:30:37 <planetmaker> then click on edit next to STR_7030_SELECT_NEW_FACE_FOR_PRESIDENT
18:30:41 <planetmaker> what string do you get?
18:31:31 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I made a big boo-hoo :p
18:31:54 <planetmaker> I guess not desirable one, eh? :(
18:32:06 <TrueBrain> no edit-button works btw
18:33:41 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: try it now
18:33:43 <TrueBrain> (reload page completely)
18:34:14 <TrueBrain> change the /1 at the end to /4 to look at strings in the time
18:34:49 <planetmaker> "at strings in the time"?
18:35:34 <planetmaker> should be mostly my changes :P
18:35:55 <planetmaker> nice this "last changed" thing. I like it!
18:36:03 <TrueBrain> it is only bugged :p
18:36:10 <TrueBrain> when you change revision, you start at 'the wrong end' :p
18:36:59 <TrueBrain> no .. it is bugged :p
18:37:02 <TrueBrain> not really a reason ;)
18:37:53 <petern> unless you mean it's buggy
18:38:13 <TrueBrain> no, I meant to say to stuff that dictonary somewhere where the sun doesn't shine
18:38:24 <planetmaker> probably both is true :P
18:42:41 <TrueBrain> working how it should
18:43:18 <TrueBrain> it seems to heavily impact MySQL :)
18:47:09 <planetmaker> hm... are there newgrfs which refit vehicles to one passanger or mail bag?
18:49:13 <frosch123> av8ion or how is it called has such a small plane
18:49:22 <planetmaker> just because we can, I'll start to allow it from the German language side :)
18:51:05 <petern> plural system allows that anyway
18:51:25 <planetmaker> petern: exactly. But not all German translations have that implemented
18:51:33 <TrueBrain> there is a big diff between asking 1 record or asking 2 records from MySQL :p
18:51:38 <planetmaker> Like for refit capacities etc
18:51:55 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: an increase of 100%? :P
18:51:58 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: and what about asking for 122 records? :P
18:52:24 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: more that the first doesn't show up in 'top', the second shows up with 100% :p (mysqld, that is)
18:52:33 <petern> planetmaker, i don't think english does for that either
18:52:39 <Xaroth> you sure the query's not flawed?
18:52:41 <TrueBrain> well .. not completely fair :) I was just asking a bit too much records ;)
18:52:48 <planetmaker> petern: but one can :)
18:52:50 <petern> Capacity: 1 passengers, 1 bags of mail
18:52:50 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: I am pretty sure my queries were flawed :)
18:53:02 <petern> planetmaker, is it supported there?
18:53:11 <planetmaker> petern: yup. :) Yes, it should be easy
18:54:06 <planetmaker> Capacity: {COMMA} passanger{P "" s}
18:54:17 <planetmaker> but with correct spelling :P
18:59:14 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: I want the <next> button for the search results :)
19:00:07 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: in time
19:00:26 <planetmaker> don't let yourself get annoyed ;)
19:02:58 <frosch123> [20:59] <planetmaker> TrueBrain: I want the <next> button for the search results :) <- shall it link to the donations page? :p
19:03:14 <TrueBrain> rather my personal bank account :p
19:04:38 <planetmaker> do you accept donations by credit card?
19:06:49 <planetmaker> STR_GROUP_AIRCRAFTS_CAPTION <-- missing plural in English. Or is there no plural of aircraft?
19:07:39 <petern> plural of aircraft is aircraft
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19:08:45 <planetmaker> ok. Thanks. Learnt something then :)
19:10:38 <frosch123> planetmaker: did you just found the credit card of the father of your ex girlfriend?
19:11:24 <planetmaker> No. But I have no other means to transfer cheaply money abroad in the lack of paypal and similar things and a not working online-banking, if it comes to international transfers :(
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19:16:58 <Wolf01> no, it's written very little
19:17:18 <[wito]> backbone networks for local transport between towns;
19:17:24 <[wito]> octopus style or circle lines`?
19:17:32 <[wito]> Which do y'all prefer?
19:17:56 <Wolf01> wito, mixing all the 3?
19:19:07 <Wolf01> oh, backbone is not one of them :P
19:19:37 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: check out latest version :)
19:20:16 <[wito]> I find that depot management on circle lines introduces severe problems (EOL depots at the end of station platforms is much easier to handle
19:21:55 <Wolf01> I usually build rings with strange symbols engr.... ehm, between towns and when some towns are big enough I add some more lines, the result is like the Sun painted by a 4 years old child, with a big ring of 4 tracks and a lot of 2 tracks rays :P
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19:23:57 <Belugas> you FORGE rings, Wolf01, not BUILD them ;)
19:24:13 <Belugas> remember The Lord Of The *** ?
19:25:15 <planetmaker> nice button, TrueBrain !
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19:25:37 <TrueBrain> does it work how you expect? As in, if you change category where the string you are looking at is also in, nothing changes
19:25:37 <planetmaker> also I like "English string changed recently"
19:25:43 <TrueBrain> if it is not in there, it goes to the first
19:25:48 <TrueBrain> (creating a First button too, as we speak)
19:26:13 <TrueBrain> yeah, a lot of those warnings will be 'invalid' for the first time WT3 will be used, but that are strings that are modified in english, but never in the translation .. which can be wrong or not, no way to tell :)
19:26:30 <octo> There are quite a few lords of something out there ;)
19:28:28 <[wito]> two-way stations, or double one-way stations (assuming RoRo and 2-track one-way lines)
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19:29:43 <TrueBrain> planetmaker / glx: or should it always go to the first element, when you change category?
19:30:55 <glx> it's ok like it is for me
19:31:11 <TrueBrain> I changed it a tiny bit more, it now finds the closest string when switching
19:31:15 <TrueBrain> and added a First button
19:34:25 <[wito]> is there a reason while savegames from a binary compiled --without-network doesn't open on one --with-network?
19:34:52 <TrueBrain> I guess there is :)
19:35:14 <TrueBrain> (answering in wrong channels can be bad :p)
19:35:21 <[wito]> because on my mac, r15710+cargodest (the last revision it works on :() doesn't compile --with-network. :(
19:36:33 <glx> if the revision and patch are the same, network should not matter
19:37:14 <TrueBrain> glx: are the 'network' settings done correctly in such cases?
19:37:30 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: in those 'english string changed', is it needed to show from what to what the english string changed?
19:37:35 <glx> network settings are not saved in savegame IIRC
19:37:50 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: I don't think
19:38:08 <planetmaker> nice-to-have. but certainly very low prio
19:38:19 <TrueBrain> the DB currently doesn't store the data :p
19:38:27 <TrueBrain> I do see nice strings in that category for dutch
19:39:07 <TrueBrain> but sometimes I wonder what changed in english that it complains :)
19:39:11 <TrueBrain> (or at least what revision)
19:39:40 <TrueBrain> STR_NEWGRF_GRF_ID for example ..
19:40:04 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: sure. but then you should find a good translation...
19:40:21 <frosch123> hehe, TrueBrain: i just wondered about one, and then remembered the unification of "Ctrl+" :) (the translation had "Ctrl-")
19:40:33 <[wito]> speaking of translations
19:40:48 <[wito]> if I were to cobble together a city name grf
19:40:54 <[wito]> for e.g. japanese town names
19:41:04 <TrueBrain> I also have a lot of strings which don't have the 'addition' of the CTRL+ usage
19:41:45 <[wito]> some japanese words have the curious property that the initial constant changes depending on the word in front of it
19:41:58 <frosch123> another one was the change of "do you want to quit the game" -> "do you want to quit openttd" as someone complained about it being shown also in scenario editor
19:42:25 <[wito]> (e.g. Hashi -> bashi in some situations)
19:42:40 <frosch123> in that case the translator could see what was changed, but will likely wonder "wtf?" :)
19:42:42 <[wito]> would such logic be possible to implement in a grf that generated names?
19:43:11 <TrueBrain> tons of Ctrl+Click to lock
19:43:17 <TrueBrain> but that you see immediatly :)
19:43:26 <frosch123> [wito]: town names are constructed of parts beginning from the front, so you can make the later parts depend on the earlier parts
19:43:55 <glx> but the "on some situations" part is not very clear
19:44:24 <[wito]> but does there exist a complete linux toolchain for making grfs?
19:44:46 <glx> you just need a text editor and grfcodec
19:44:48 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I see you have a bit of work for German too ;)
19:45:16 <frosch123> [wito]: svn://svn.ttdpatch.net/misc/grfcodec and svn://svn.ttdpatch.net/misc/nforenum
19:45:26 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: indeed :)
19:45:35 <TrueBrain> not that many though
19:45:43 <frosch123> for both "make" works fine, just ignore the errors grfcodec produces :)
19:46:03 <[wito]> frosch123: not compile errors, I take it?
19:46:29 <[wito]> those are, generally speaking, somewhat hard to ignore. :P
19:46:44 <frosch123> well, you only need grfcodec, the makefile does also try to build some other tools which need some patched assembler or so, but you do not need those tools anyway
19:47:00 <TrueBrain> hmm ... WT3 picked up a few of those 'markers' wrong ... :(
19:47:17 <TrueBrain> STR_NEWGRF_GRF_ID :{BLACK}GRF ID: {SILVER}{STRING}
19:47:20 <TrueBrain> STR_NEWGRF_GRF_ID :{BLACK}GRF ID: {SILVER}{STRING}
19:47:24 <TrueBrain> seems pretty equal to me :(
19:48:59 <frosch123> my critical pollen season is finished already :)
19:53:15 <frosch123> TrueBrain: hmm, the commit message of english.txt changing revision might be useful...
19:54:25 <[wito]> any chance that celestars CargoDest will be synced with trunk?
19:56:54 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: what actually is a "marked" string? (that category)?
19:58:31 <Xaroth> har har har, extractor workage :o
19:58:56 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: what about the current string number in the same line as last, first and next?
20:00:24 <Forked> you know .. I'm somewhat dissapointed
20:00:29 <Forked> that psybnc thing.. I get a 404 :(
20:00:54 <Rubidium> Forked: you would've gotten a 404 weeks ago already
20:01:01 <Rubidium> it's just some very broken botnet
20:01:37 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: "marked" strings are strings that need your attention, which mostly will be that the english string changed
20:01:42 <TrueBrain> and the other question I don't get :p
20:01:42 <Forked> I got it the last time I tried too.. but still. :\
20:03:41 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: I've a button "jump to first". But I never know where I am :) --> indication which string# I'm editing rightn ow
20:03:57 <TrueBrain> hmm .. hard .. as strings are very relative ...
20:04:06 <TrueBrain> but okay, I can display the ID I use to walk through the tree
20:04:10 <TrueBrain> although it is completely unmeaningful :p
20:04:27 <planetmaker> :P ok, then better leave it. I thought it's the string pos in the file
20:04:54 <planetmaker> that'd make it sort-of comparable. But it's not really necessary
20:05:36 *** KingJ is now known as kingj
20:05:52 <TrueBrain> the ID currently used is the line in the file yes, without the comments .. but it can change completely on a commit
20:05:58 <TrueBrain> so IDs of today can be invalid tomorrow ;)
20:06:22 *** tkjacobsen has joined #openttd
20:12:30 <TrueBrain> planetmaker / Rubidium: better name for the "marked" category?
20:13:33 <TrueBrain> it is not only that
20:13:44 <TrueBrain> it happens for all strings that received a marker for various of reasons
20:13:48 <TrueBrain> and need attention of the translator
20:14:50 <Xaroth> har har, it be worketh :o
20:15:00 <TrueBrain> Strings Needing Attention
20:15:32 <Rubidium> What Is It With Writing A Capital At The Start Of Each Word?
20:15:45 <frosch123> marked for revalidation
20:15:57 <planetmaker> "strings needing verification"
20:16:15 <glx> <@Rubidium> What Is It With Writing A Capital At The Start Of Each Word? <-- German style ;)
20:16:37 <Rubidium> glx: that's not true
20:16:42 <planetmaker> proven to be better readable :)
20:17:09 <Rubidium> "What is it with writing a Capital at the Start of each Word" is more Germanish
20:17:26 <Rubidium> it's rather something that Americans are happy with
20:17:29 <glx> el_en: we have to solve that in France first
20:18:39 <TrueBrain> what a very unclear website
20:21:12 <TrueBrain> bah, I need a stylist :p
20:22:14 <Xaroth> is there a way to use the command line -n <ip>:<port> to force spectating? rather than creating your own company
20:22:56 <planetmaker> dunno. But if you can join a company, you can join spectator
20:23:45 <TrueBrain> there can be up to 255 companies right?
20:27:15 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I'll think about it when openttdcoop's games use 15 companies regularly ;)
20:28:32 <Xaroth> isn't the whole point of Co-op that you only use 1 company? :P
20:31:43 <petern> you can have multiple coops :)
20:33:46 <planetmaker> Rubidium: that's a good time then :)
20:34:10 <planetmaker> (I hope you got the sarcasm in my MOOAr)?
20:43:00 <DorpsGek> Belugas: I have not seen nPIn.
20:46:25 <Patrick> ok, I've been doing some hardcore fiddling with priority loops and stuff like that
20:46:31 <Patrick> want me to write it up somewhere?
20:46:44 <Patrick> it would be wasted on openttdcoop wiki :D
20:46:44 <dihedral> Belugas, want some more laughs?
20:46:59 <dihedral> this was a private message in the forums ^^
20:48:25 <Patrick> let me guess, he threw his arms in the air and stormed off
20:48:41 <dihedral> it is oh too manusing
20:48:48 <Patrick> what actually happened, he over-engineered something that was less functional than what we have atm?
20:48:53 <dihedral> i am considering adding it to the forums thread :-D
20:49:15 <dihedral> he's annoyed because he got a rejection :-P
20:49:23 <dihedral> and that not even from a girl :-P
20:49:59 <nicfer> would be cool if cities grew near stations instead of any free space found
20:51:10 <Belugas> it has been tried, nicfer
20:51:30 <Belugas> does not particuliarly changes much
20:51:56 <Rubidium> I like his uhm... how do they call it
20:51:57 <nicfer> well, it only improves on the R word, which will not be discussed...
20:52:05 <glx> hey but we always said callbacks were needed
20:54:33 <Rubidium> ah well... if he gets pissed because I do not reply to him immediatelly with a full working copy of what I meant is "being against it", that's his choice
20:54:34 <petern> to be extended by copying it all again?
20:54:47 <Rubidium> petern: ofcourse not
20:55:17 <nicfer> althrough it would also make the game somewhat more challenging
20:55:18 <TrueBrain> why does it itch so much to just do the airport stuff? :p
20:56:28 <Belugas> TrueBrain, it would be cool, isn't it? Just to shut his big load mouth once and for all?
20:56:32 * petern considers how to straighten his winding mess
20:56:36 <TrueBrain> Belugas: exactly :)
20:56:57 <petern> my itch is to remove his stupid airports that he forced in
20:57:25 <TrueBrain> make airports controlable by Squirrel scripts! :p
20:57:26 <petern> fortunately for you i can't see how without breaking every savegame
20:57:41 <Rubidium> you wouldn't break every savegame ;)
20:57:59 <nicfer> only parts of the city that are under a passenger-serviced station coverage would grow
20:58:51 <Belugas> nicfer, that does not give more challenge at all
20:58:55 <nicfer> currently if you put four bus stations at the centre the town will expand through all the space it has available
20:59:20 <Belugas> it's as if the center of the town change place
20:59:46 <Belugas> and then, there is a battle as to which station is going to be the new town center
21:00:26 <Belugas> ain't it time for me to go?
21:01:32 <TrueBrain> well, to home that is
21:01:55 <nicfer> however, with my system, if you put a bus station in a unhabited place of the map, houses would grow around it
21:04:21 <Belugas> in your dreams only, nicfer... It might grow a bit, then, as a new station is placed somewhere else, it will decline
21:04:35 <Belugas> i tried it, believe me when I say I did
21:04:47 <petern> put your bus stops where the town grows :)
21:04:49 <Belugas> i have seen it, i have tasted it, i reverted it
21:05:10 <petern> there is something pleasing about bridging a big gap
21:06:04 * Belugas is gone and is happy for petern's big gap bridged :)
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21:17:19 <Xaroth> separate link to dev post
21:17:53 <Rubidium> the source isn't with you?
21:18:05 <planetmaker> may the juice be with you ;)
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21:29:57 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16102 /trunk/src/ (56 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: unify the vehicle info strings; reduce the number of duplicate strings and unifies the GUIs quite a bit
21:30:46 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r16103 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r11429): missing const
21:31:33 <glx> TrueBrain: will need a full reimport ?
21:32:05 <Rubidium> WT2 needs a day to import the changes though ;)
21:32:33 <TrueBrain> let me check how long WT3 needs ..
21:32:58 <TrueBrain> required 5% of the memory in peak ..
21:33:03 <glx> Rubidium: WT2 needs to be killed 2 times ;)
21:34:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it tells me you removed 3 strings fromt he languages you didn't remove from english.txt?
21:34:26 <TrueBrain> STR_VEHICLE_INFO_WEIGHT_POWER_MAX_SPEED <- I guess that is one :)
21:34:49 <TrueBrain> although the english text is still identical ...
21:35:25 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: all strings that were removed were changed or removed
21:35:42 <Rubidium> hmm... unless my sed/grep foo failed
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21:36:46 <glx> TrueBrain: look closer :)
21:38:20 <glx> but indeed STR_VEHICLE_INFO_WEIGHT_POWER_MAX_SPEED and STR_VEHICLE_INFO_WEIGHT_POWER_MAX_SPEED_MAX_TE are globally unchanged
21:39:03 <Rubidium> ah, so diff showed it as removed ;)
21:39:33 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16104 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix: remove some unneeded spaces from some strings/make some strings more consistent with itself by adding spaces
21:40:32 <glx> and you failed to remove extra space in STR_VEHICLE_INFO_RELIABILITY_BREAKDOWNS it seems
21:41:32 <Rubidium> nah, there are much more double spaces everywhere
21:41:53 <Rubidium> but those are used to 'separate' two sentence/pieces of info
21:42:13 <glx> but as you "fixed" it for 2 strings around this one
21:44:02 <Rubidium> well, made some strings consistent with the nearest strings. Maybe I've missed some
21:47:55 <TrueBrain> fieldday for translators :p
21:52:51 <planetmaker> he... and before it entirely gets night I say 'good night' to all here :)
21:53:01 <TrueBrain> night planetmaker :)
21:53:08 <TrueBrain> almost done with 'next'/'prev' for searches ;)
21:53:12 <TrueBrain> make sure to check that tomorrow :p
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22:06:57 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 17.7333333333
22:07:04 <TrueBrain> @calc 266 - (17 * 15)
22:11:01 <benben> hi, i've built a train station just besides a farm but there is no grain/livestock waiting
22:11:25 <glx> did you send a train there ?
22:11:51 <Patrick> a station doesn't start taking cargo until you've told it to by having a suitable train dock
22:14:05 <Patrick> I like writing wiki a lot more, but this isn't really the place for it
22:14:05 <Patrick> I've just observed a bunch of stuff about trains
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22:14:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge`
22:17:12 <Xaroth> grr.. and now Patrick beat me to it
22:17:31 <Patrick> is there a kind of informal "scratch" wiki?
22:18:36 <Yexo> just create a page under your own username
22:19:10 <TrueBrain> glx: check out the new 'List' function :)
22:20:43 <TrueBrain> I wonder I wonder ... why under Untranslated strings aren't a bunch of strings Rubidium introduced :s
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22:21:57 <TrueBrain> it helps if I reindex the stuff ;)
22:22:45 <TrueBrain> glx: is it good enough in usage?
22:23:09 <glx> but for now the list is incomplete for untranslated ;)
22:23:48 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you were too script happy :p ' STR_885C_BROKEN_DOWN ' is removed in languages, but it wasn't changed in english? :p
22:24:06 <TrueBrain> k, so that is not me :)
22:24:48 * TrueBrain is happy with this result .. :)
22:30:25 <TrueBrain> just a notice: going to trash the complete database again, so I can rebuild it with a few fixes ;)
22:40:27 <TrueBrain> and if I did everything correctly ... it should reindex the right entries automaticly ;)
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22:41:21 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: glx * r16105 /trunk/src/ (engine_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: use {CARGO} instead hardcoded cargo name
22:41:51 <glx> good for me it was removed in all languages ;)
22:45:43 <TrueBrain> a perfect moment to do such things ;)
22:51:07 <glx> I noticed it while retranslating :)
22:55:16 <TrueBrain> I am updating in the hope to find an english.txt change soon :p
22:55:25 <TrueBrain> r7987 .. boring job :p
22:56:05 <Rubidium> or even index the 0.1.4-0.3.3
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22:56:18 <TrueBrain> not possible because of the stupid 'src' change
22:56:29 <TrueBrain> (the reason I start with 7787 :))
22:57:26 <glx> ha yes a nice feature would be to have 2 WT3 :)
22:57:37 <glx> one for trunk, one for stable branch
22:57:44 <TrueBrain> even one for website ;)
22:58:04 <TrueBrain> just url-wise it is not possible yet ;)
22:58:18 <glx> and if possible trunk and stable linked together for common strings ;)
22:58:30 <TrueBrain> glx: that ... would be almost impossible :)
22:58:39 <TrueBrain> as small things in trunk can break that 'common' part
22:58:41 <TrueBrain> without WT knowing :)
22:58:47 <TrueBrain> r8085, still no english.txt change
22:59:25 <TrueBrain> I need deletion or modification :(
23:00:01 <glx> usually when there's deletion in english, there's also in other languages
23:00:55 <TrueBrain> I NEED A DELETE OR MODIFY!
23:01:11 <glx> anyway having a trunk and stable version would solve the lang backport hell ;)
23:01:23 <TrueBrain> glx: brings that hell to the translator ;)
23:01:34 <TrueBrain> I have my doubts that will work, without some kind of link
23:01:38 <glx> way better, it's their job
23:01:46 <TrueBrain> which is something tricky ... so it is something we need to think about :)
23:03:03 <TrueBrain> 8421 is the first ..
23:11:12 <TrueBrain> haha, failure .. always nice :(
23:11:34 <glx> better fail when testing ;)
23:12:44 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16106 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_order.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: AIOrder::SetOrderFlags always removed "Service if needed" from goto-depot orders.
23:15:10 <TrueBrain> took me just .. 5 attempts :(
23:16:37 <TrueBrain> I am so happy with our dedicated server .. it runs this job so much faster than my home pc does ...
23:16:50 <TrueBrain> (mostly because of the external svn connection :p)
23:17:11 <TrueBrain> maybe I should clone the SVN and run it local ... might be a bit less waste of bandwidth .. ghehe
23:19:31 * TrueBrain makes a dance .. it works! :)
23:23:50 <TrueBrain> when handling 3000 string changes for one language, WT3 uses 100 MiB of RAM :p
23:23:52 <TrueBrain> acceptable Rubidium? :)
23:24:44 <Rubidium> quite a bit, but an order of magnitude less than WT2 ;)
23:24:55 <TrueBrain> and it was an extreme case ;)
23:25:22 <TrueBrain> I think it is safe to say WT3 never consumes more than 100 MiB of RAM :)
23:25:52 <TrueBrain> k .. I wish you all a very good night!
23:49:39 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r16107 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIOF_STOP_IN_DEPOT to the orderflags in AIOrder to allow stop-in-depot orders
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