IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-02-24
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02:50:42 <Yexo> don't give special orders, just give orders as if there was no depot at all
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03:45:35 <Felicitus> bananas gives me "Unexpected error while uploading." when i try to upload my ai :(
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07:27:39 <MrFrans> for whomever it may concern the wiki doesn't load.
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07:46:13 <Felicitus> Yexo, i just read your pm
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07:47:07 <Felicitus> well, what I modified in the rail pathfinder so far is multiplier support and building on tiles which you won - because right now, the pathfinder ignores all tiles which are already built
07:47:47 <Felicitus> but a nice thing would be if the pathfinder would support dual- and quad rails, but i'm not sure how that would work
07:47:48 <Yexo> yes, I have support for that in admiralai too, but how do you determine which tiles you use and which you don't?
07:48:28 <Yexo> ie you don't want a trainline going south and a trainline going north on the same track, right?
07:48:30 <Felicitus> well, i don't let the pathfinder cross tiles
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07:50:41 <Felicitus> if you take the terminus station for example, and if the path finder plans a route for the right track which immediately makes a turn left (south->north line), it was unable to build the left line even tough it could build 2 tracks on that tile
07:51:10 <Yexo> ah, now I get what you mean :)
07:51:39 <Yexo> so forget what I said before, as that has nothing to do with this
07:51:50 <Felicitus> there were many times when the builder blocked itself :)
07:52:04 <Yexo> in admiralai I prevent that by disallowing some tiles
07:53:29 <Felicitus> take your time, i have to win a game on kurt's:)
07:54:28 <Felicitus> (i lost the last game because that guy build a statue maybe 1 min earlier than i could :(
07:55:55 <Yexo> this is far from a perfect solution though, it blocks itself sometimes, but less often then without blocking those tiles
07:56:19 <Felicitus> well the check for that is pretty simple
07:56:21 <Yexo> for the route the other way a block of four tiles before the entrance is forbidden of course
07:57:06 <Felicitus> it just checks which line it would build (e.g. NW_SW) and then checks if the existing tile is sane (e.g. NE_SE). if that's true, it will be added to the tiles
07:59:45 <Yexo> do you have a diff for that against the current pathfinder?
08:00:04 <Felicitus> hmm no not yet, but i can prepare one
08:00:20 <Felicitus> but warning: the function which retrieves the track it would build is pretty ugly
08:00:44 <Felicitus> a bunch of if checks, i'm not sure how to solve that better
08:00:44 <Yexo> I can always rewrite it :)
08:01:01 <Yexo> but I don't think there is a clean way to write that function
08:01:11 <Felicitus> yes, i might be good in OO architecture, but I'm a big looser in binary operations
08:01:56 <Yexo> for me the design (so the OO architecture) is the hard part most of the time
08:02:36 <Felicitus> the funny thing is, that when i was younger and had no clue about OO, i was writing the craziest stuff with bit shifting, and/or etc
08:04:21 <Felicitus> well actually we would only need something like AIRail::BuildRail, but which doesnt build the actual track, but returns which track it would build (e.g. RAILTRACK_NW_SW)
08:05:28 <Yexo> it's not that hard to implement that function in squirrel
08:05:55 <Felicitus> yes, but implementing alot of if checks doesn't feel like the right solution:)
08:06:25 <Yexo> so moving those if statements to c++ code and exposing an extra api function is the right solution?
08:07:01 <Felicitus> i don't know, but i would be interested how it is solved in c++
08:07:16 <Felicitus> i mean, some funky and/or statements maybe? ;)
08:07:20 <Yexo> it probably would be solved the same way you've done now in squirrel :)
08:08:04 <Felicitus> well it actually calculates the differences and then has like 6 nested if checks
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08:08:48 <Felicitus> hmm Yexo, i bundled the modified library in the 0.2-release, if you want you can have a look yourself. can't make a diff right now, because i'm on vista
08:08:53 <Felicitus> and dont have the sources here
08:10:00 <Felicitus> i spent so much time with the AI in the last few days (over 180k of code!), that its now time to do something productive...as soon as i've won the game on kurt's! :)
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08:18:23 <Felicitus> oh by the way, i tried to upload the ai to bananas, but it said something like "unhandled error occured"
08:18:54 <Yexo> I can't help you with that, sorry
08:19:02 <Yexo> you'll need to ask Rubidium
08:19:09 <Felicitus> okay, will do that when he's around
08:19:34 <Yexo> just highlight him and he'll read it when he's back, that's easier
08:19:57 <Felicitus> Rubidium: I recieve an "unhandled error occured" when uploading my AI, can you have a look at that?
08:20:01 <Yexo> but make sure to include a link to the file you're trying to upload
08:20:30 <Felicitus> hmm that's the harder part
08:20:36 <Felicitus> seems that there's no way around rebooting :)
08:21:08 <Felicitus> any wishes for diff options?
08:21:30 <Yexo> I'll probably merge it by hand anyway
08:22:01 <Felicitus> i extended the class earlier to have it clean for bananas
08:22:12 <Felicitus> completely forgot that
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08:22:58 <Felicitus> should i just send you the file with the overridden class? because as of now, there are no changes in your class
08:23:15 <Felicitus> see you in a few minutes
08:23:22 <Yexo> whatever makes it easy to see your changes is ok :)
08:23:43 <Felicitus> i make a few comments where i added things
08:23:55 <Felicitus> and notice to myself: run irssi in screen next time
08:25:18 <Yexo> which is not rare for an AI
08:25:34 <Yexo> nocab is 280kb, admiralai 340kb
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08:36:49 <Felicitus> Yexo: it's the file library/rail/pathfinder.nut in the tar archive
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08:41:32 <Felicitus> oh nice, eclipse PDT 2.1 supports php 5.3 namespaces
08:48:01 <flowOver> pdt is nice. i'm giving aptanaphp a shot right now. will give pdt 2 a go after i've had a run on this
08:48:45 <Felicitus> yes, i was almost near to use zend studio for 30 days because there was virtually no editor which supports namespaces, but the milestone supports it
08:53:09 <planetmaker> [09:24] <De_ghosty> 180k lines? <--- kind A LOT more than you invest in bug reports
08:53:16 <planetmaker> good morning all :)
08:54:12 <flowOver> i've grown accustomed to using registrys instead of namespaces. i'll wait till they get all the kinks worked out of them first
08:54:27 <flowOver> php is all about workarounds
08:55:49 <Felicitus> morning planetmaker
08:55:54 <Felicitus> what does De_ghosty mean?
08:56:46 <planetmaker> Felicitus: I just read back a bit... can I now - with the new libraries use your AI without installing your custom ones?
08:57:09 <Felicitus> planetmaker: if you pick the tar i just posted, yes
08:57:19 <dihedral> but i have work to do :-P
08:57:42 <Felicitus> that one works witout a custom library, and will hopefully be uploaded to bananas later
08:58:11 <Felicitus> not that i worked a few days in linux i miss so many things
08:58:25 <Felicitus> on vista...like virtual desktops, and window snapping
08:59:00 <Felicitus> there are many apps which can make a virtual desktop, but WHY dont they extend the window's menu so i can move windows to another workspace or make it sticky
08:59:33 <Felicitus> ok i guess i will reboot again :)
08:59:38 <flowOver> i believe the nvidia drivers offer these kind of tools for the desktop
08:59:58 <planetmaker> at least the desktops afair. But long time ago :P
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09:02:31 <Felicitus> flowOver: i was sick of trying, and finally rebooted into linux
09:15:32 <dihedral> Felicitus: unable to execute task DelayedTask:IndustryConnectionTask
09:16:16 <Forked> dihedral: hmm, what did I do that would cause neko to start up again? :\
09:16:53 <Felicitus> dihedral: that's okay, it always says that when a task is in the list, but not allowed to run yet
09:16:54 <Forked> I haven't really paid any attention to the person
09:17:40 <Felicitus> dihedral: does the AI still run? or did it give another error?
09:17:41 <dihedral> Forked, you created a patch bundle for someone else who asked nicely :-D
09:17:55 <dihedral> had an issue with save()
09:18:09 <dihedral> i'll fire it up again
09:18:12 <Forked> I included more than was asked for I think.. also it's something I wanted for myself
09:18:28 <Forked> I just happend to find the three patches here and there for the same rev.. anyone could have done that :\
09:19:36 <Yexo> anyone could have done that :\ <- expect for that neko guy, because "his computer is not good enough"
09:20:07 <Forked> didn't he have some overclocked 2,8GHz or something?
09:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> he didn't even understand the hint of dihedral that the overclocking was probably the root of his problems...
09:21:34 <dihedral> he did not even get the hint that youtube gets his system overheated
09:21:46 <dihedral> i wonder how he ever gets to play a single game
09:21:51 <db48x> why do aircraft default to 1/4 speed?
09:22:01 <dihedral> we should tell him to play openttd in fast forward mode and wait for the lovely bug reports
09:22:18 <dihedral> db48x, you want them faster?
09:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause> db48x: hysterical raisins
09:23:03 <db48x> is it just to balance the low costs compared to trains?
09:23:18 <Yexo> db48x: no, it's because it was that way in TTD
09:23:26 <Yexo> or maybe it's also to balance the costs
09:23:37 <planetmaker> maybe both is valid, Yexo ?
09:23:43 <db48x> yes, but did they do that in TTD to balance the costs :)
09:23:44 <Yexo> anyway, you can change the their speed somewhere in the advanced settings window
09:24:02 <dihedral> db48x, did TTD allow you to build bridges over diagonal roads?
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09:24:23 <dihedral> or did ttd allow you to load other grf's?
09:24:34 <db48x> but this is slightly different
09:24:46 <dihedral> then just see this as another feature that openttd has and ttd did not
09:25:00 <db48x> those are new features added since then. the speed reduction seems to have been present in TTD and then OpenTTD allowed you to remove it
09:25:01 <dihedral> (balancing the costs)
09:25:25 <dihedral> pbs also comes to mind
09:25:44 <dihedral> oh - and the huge ass airports
09:25:56 <dihedral> am i missing something?
09:26:33 <dihedral> openttd != ttd, though they do strive to let you play with how ttd used to be
09:26:46 <Yexo> dihedral: probably quite a lot, though I can't point at the correct wiki page right now :p
09:26:56 <db48x> all those take work to develop, so they dropped them in favor of releasing when they did. deciding to slow planes down is the opposite
09:26:57 <flowOver> the one i've loved since the start is build on slopes and all that ease of building changes
09:27:06 <Eddi|zuHause> does anybody use the "disable electric rails" switch?
09:27:19 <dihedral> well, Yexo, you are not the one looking for the answer, so pointing to wiki.openttd.org does the job :-D
09:27:45 <dihedral> db48x, what do you mean?
09:27:49 <dihedral> sorry - i dont quite follow
09:28:47 <db48x> some features are nice to have but don't get included in the 1.0 release because you can't implement everything
09:29:00 <dihedral> that aint the sole reason
09:29:09 <db48x> sure, but it often just comes down to that
09:29:14 <dihedral> and 1.0 is not even being talked about
09:29:37 <db48x> 1.0 == any given release
09:29:57 <dihedral> then you should say ttd or any release but 1.0 is a precise version number
09:30:06 <dihedral> and without a name it lets me assume you are talking about openttd
09:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause> 95% of the features that OpenTTD introduced were never even considered back when TTD was released
09:30:46 <dihedral> CS had a 'vision' (as marjacq would say)
09:30:49 <db48x> anyway, TTD divided all aircraft speeds by 4, which means that they took the time to consider whether it would be a good idea
09:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and CS also stated that TTDP/OpenTTD divert very far from his "vision"
09:31:17 <dihedral> CS coded what he had in mind
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09:31:46 <db48x> so what I want to know is why he decided airplanes should move 4 times slower than other craft
09:32:14 <db48x> that eliminates the main selling point of aircraft
09:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> db48x: and we're supposed to be mindreaders?
09:32:20 <DASPRiD> dihedral, btw, what's the status on that secret project which was abandonded?
09:32:26 <dihedral> i doubt you will get an answer other than 'Chris Sawyer had a vision which he programmed into Trasport Tycoon'
09:32:30 <db48x> Eddi|zuHause: obviously
09:32:43 <Yexo> DASPRiD: can you be any more vague? :p
09:32:49 <dihedral> DASPRiD, bananas.openttd.org
09:33:12 <db48x> dihedral: well, I already did, which is for balance between the earning potential of aircraft and trains
09:33:14 <dihedral> Yexo, vague for you, not for me :-P
09:33:32 <DASPRiD> dihedral, bah, downloads just linked externally? :/
09:33:42 <DASPRiD> so no dl system behind it?
09:33:50 <dihedral> have you looked at the game recently?
09:34:17 <dihedral> sheesh - where have you been?
09:34:30 <dihedral> content download (grep the svn loogs for that)
09:34:49 <dihedral> db48x, i dont get what you are after
09:34:55 <dihedral> knowing what CS intentions were?
09:35:03 <dihedral> or why OpenTTD is different
09:35:06 <DASPRiD> dihedral, sad that we couldnt finish it
09:35:12 <dihedral> DASPRiD, no not really
09:35:14 <db48x> yes, but I'll settle for knowing what other people suspect his intentions were
09:35:31 <dihedral> db48x, no decent person is going to do that
09:35:44 <dihedral> they either know or they dont
09:35:45 <Felicitus> sorry didnt follow the conversation, what did cs do?
09:35:59 <Yexo> Felicitus: it's was the person who made TTD
09:36:00 <dihedral> if you want an intervew with CS, call his agency (they are in london) but i doubt you'll get one
09:36:00 <db48x> Felicitus: he wrote TTD, basically
09:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> db48x: how should we decide if it was for "gamebalance" reasons, or because it caused integer overflows?
09:36:35 <Felicitus> yes, uhm, its like "why did felicitus decide to write an AI" :)
09:36:39 <flowOver> he also made the decision that planes should move 1/4 speed of everything else. his intentions are in question
09:36:43 <dihedral> or if it was Micropose that said they are to fast and we will not sell it like that
09:37:14 <dihedral> Felicitus, talking of which, it's not doing anything in a 64x64 map
09:37:25 <Yexo> Felicitus: only without you being here, and we guessing why you wrote one :p
09:37:27 <db48x> Eddi|zuHause: I was aware that it was a question for which no answer may be readily available before I asked the question
09:37:32 * DASPRiD pokes dihedral with a query
09:37:54 <Felicitus> Yexo: i do not want to manually connect everything on a 2048x2048 map. thats the reason :P
09:38:06 <Felicitus> dihedral: which openttd version?
09:38:13 <Eddi|zuHause> db48x: then why do you insist on getting an answer, even after you got three?
09:38:30 <flowOver> maybe it's something about accounting for altitude & circumferences.... es
09:38:57 <db48x> Eddi|zuHause: I didn't. dihedral and I got onto a side track about the existential nature of features in general
09:39:35 <Felicitus> hmm that should work
09:39:43 <Felicitus> do you get any other messages in the log?
09:40:21 <dihedral> could not find a sane placement spot for x
09:40:22 <Yexo> Felicitus: it there a reason you claim people need at least r15553? r15553 was a translation update, so it's very unlikely your AI depends on that revision
09:40:32 <db48x> very nearly infinite, at any rate
09:40:52 <Felicitus> Yexo: thats a number i know that it works with it :) when did you put the patch into svn?
09:40:58 <dihedral> i give up with the ai for now
09:41:13 <Felicitus> Yexo: waypoint building and power API call
09:41:52 <fonsinchen> So, is there actually documentation on how to implement a configuration option in the wiki or can I safely stop trying to load it?
09:41:55 <Yexo> r15530 (after that both worked)
09:42:09 <Felicitus> okay, then i claim r55530 in the future :)
09:42:26 <Yexo> fonsinchen: the wiki doesn't work currently
09:42:52 <fonsinchen> I want a configuration option for the time frame of my moving average for capacities of links
09:43:03 <fonsinchen> and I was hoping to find documentation in the wiki
09:43:17 <fonsinchen> nevermind, I'll search somewhere else.
09:43:25 <Yexo> if there is any, it's outdated by now
09:43:37 <Yexo> just adding a new settings is pretty easy
09:43:54 <Yexo> 3 places you need to change: settings_base.h, settings.cpp and settings_gui.cpp
09:44:05 <fonsinchen> I have done that before and it was like two hours searching and 2 minutes implementing
09:44:24 <fonsinchen> I'll document it when I've rediscovered it.
09:44:32 <fonsinchen> thanks for the hint
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09:45:12 <Ammler> morning all, Yexo, do you still have a up2date cygwin environment?
09:45:32 <Yexo> unfortunatly not, I broke it some time ago, and haven't been able to fix it yet
09:45:51 <fonsinchen> there is no settings_base.h
09:45:52 <Yexo> before that I was able to compile noai succesfully with squirrel though
09:46:01 <Yexo> fonsinchen: it's settings_type.h, sorry
09:46:18 <Yexo> Ammler: before the trunk merge, but with squirrel
09:46:32 <petern> aircraft speed is clearly a balance issue
09:46:48 <Ammler> dunno, I had some tries with help of this channels, but failed ;-)
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09:47:13 <Felicitus> dihedral: you can send the map to me, so i can have a look why it fails
09:47:17 <Yexo> Ammler: I'll try reinstalling cygwin now
09:47:51 <dihedral> Felicitus, it failed on every 64x64 map i tried
09:48:15 <Rubidium> Yexo/Felicitus: TrueBrain wrote the website part of bananas, so uploading that doesn't work should be fixed by him as you and me have about equal knowledge of that part
09:48:16 <dihedral> it had plans on what to do, but nothing ever happened
09:49:03 <Yexo> in any case you have more access to the server than I have
09:49:39 <Felicitus> dihedral: oh yes, of course, because the AI doesnt do terraforming right now, it fails because it cant place the huge stations :)
09:50:11 <Felicitus> yes, terraforming is not implemented yet
09:50:14 <Rubidium> Yexo: true, though you won't be happy to admin or quickfix WT2 ;)
09:50:23 <Felicitus> but one thing is odd - it should use a 4 tile station, but it doesnt
09:50:30 <dihedral> it was a mountanious map :-P
09:50:39 <Yexo> Rubidium: I wasn't saying I want more acces, I'm happy with the way it's now :)
09:51:07 <Yexo> did you just fix the wiki / bugs.openttd.org?
09:51:15 <dihedral> Rubidium, i thought TB was working on WT3
09:51:49 <Felicitus> dihedral: yes, and i am stupid. because currently it doesn't upgrade stations, the smallest station footprint is 13x2 squares
09:52:00 <Felicitus> so it will never work this time on 64x64 maps
09:52:10 <Rubidium> was maybe, but nothing more than a few lines have ever come out
09:55:14 <dihedral> and he was so strong about it with 'just a few days'
09:55:40 <dihedral> but he wants any new wt in python
09:55:50 <dihedral> which was why i never even got started on a php one
09:55:58 <Rubidium> 'just a few days' is an euphemism for 'most likely not this year'
09:56:18 <dihedral> usually not with TB ;-)
09:56:33 <dihedral> and he usually subsitutes 'a few' with an integer
09:56:36 <Rubidium> dihedral: we got a php one now and it kinda suck w.r.t. memory wastage
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09:56:49 <dihedral> i know - i have the code
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09:58:11 <Eddi|zuHause> well, celestar also said that cargodest would take "just a few days" :p
09:58:34 <dihedral> and then he disappeared after a few days and was never seen again
09:59:05 <Rubidium> he didn't disappear after a few days
09:59:59 <dihedral> he actually did do a good job with what is there now
10:00:13 <dihedral> just i assume syncing it will take a huge amount of time and be pretty tedious
10:02:29 <Rubidium> he started only 6 months ago and did quite regular commits for the following 4 months
10:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> 6 months? i thought it was less than that
10:04:21 <Rubidium> that's the first non-trunk commit I could find in the cargodest hg
10:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, probably my sense of time is thoroughly screwed
10:08:42 <dihedral> "Hey, I wrote it (the "original" rewrite at least)" <- the original rewrite lol
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10:38:28 <Felicitus> damn, the scrollback buffer is lost :(
10:38:42 <Felicitus> Rubidium: who was the guy whom i should ask about the bananas problem?
10:40:27 <Rubidium> I think he's on vacation this week though
10:45:16 <Felicitus> well, i'm not in a hurry
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10:50:50 <dihedral> he's snowboarding, yes
10:56:43 <Yexo> Ammler: I just reinstalled cygwin, but I can only confirm cygwin no longer compiles openttd
10:56:55 <Yexo> I wonder how I had it working before though
10:57:02 <Felicitus> damn, i need that thing up on bananas, call him in the holidays and get him back here! (and if nobody watches, i put on a disguise and go snowboarding as him instead) :)
11:00:02 <dihedral> Felicitus, what's the issue?
11:00:14 <Yexo> Felicitus: what program do you use to make the tar?
11:00:38 <Felicitus> well, earlier it complained that my tar contains a license txt file, so i guess the mechanis on the server works
11:00:48 <Felicitus> dihedral: it works, but it complains about an unexcepted error
11:01:09 <Felicitus> Yexo: tar cfv FelicitusAI.1.tar FelicitusAI.1/
11:01:21 <Yexo> Felicitus: that should be ok
11:13:45 <Ammler> Yexo: I am not able to download gcc for mingw, either.
11:14:10 <Yexo> Ammler: I'm using msvc currently
11:17:01 <Ammler> Yexo: nvm, thank you anyway.
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11:22:39 <Forked> how can you be a tester and not being able to compile.. :\
11:23:02 <dihedral> i wondered the same thing
11:23:08 <DASPRiD> shouldn't everyone be able to type ./configure && make && make install ?
11:23:16 <Forked> you don't even have to do the last one
11:23:23 <Forked> since it ends up in bin/
11:24:12 <DASPRiD> sure, on ubuntu / debian, the tester first has do type sudo apt-get install build-deps ;)
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11:24:54 <dihedral> the one kiddo would probably also run sudo svn up.... wait.....
11:28:07 <Forked> first thing I do in ubuntu is sudo su - && passwd
11:28:29 <Forked> (well the passwd happens after, but.. to get it on one line and then ruin it by explaining)
11:29:19 <Xaroth> gives a nice root console
11:29:26 <Ammler> default install without pw?
11:29:27 <DASPRiD> Forked, enabling root account sucks hard :P
11:29:43 <DASPRiD> ok then thats fine :P
11:30:08 <Xaroth> as long as you have sudo configured properly you don't ever need to change the root password
11:30:10 <petern> first thing i do in debian is install sudo ;)
11:30:31 <Xaroth> so you can just make it some impossible to remember rediculously long password
11:31:16 <petern> and obviously ssh is restricted to keys and no root login
11:31:44 <petern> although keys *and* password would be better
11:31:49 <petern> must investigate if that's possible
11:31:55 <Xaroth> keys with passwords :)
11:32:12 <petern> yes but the password is still on the wrong side
11:32:12 <Xaroth> it's either keys or plain passwords
11:32:32 <Xaroth> but one still requires the user password to sudo :)
11:50:32 <fonsinchen> I put a std::map<StationID, LinkStat> into GoodsEntry and I want to save/load that. Is that a bad idea in itself?
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12:02:59 * Forked discovers NoAI for the first time
12:03:09 <Forked> I'm so gonna try them. :D
12:06:56 <dihedral> <petern> first thing i do in debian is install sudo ;) <- i install vim :-P
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12:12:03 <Xaroth> dihedral: vim is pure evil :/
12:12:58 <fonsinchen> If I want to save something as "REF", like for example RoadStops, does it have to be a pool item or can I circumvent that or is that a bad idea?
12:13:58 <Yexo> that depends on what it is
12:14:09 <fonsinchen> It's the link capacities
12:14:10 <Yexo> is there a good reason not to use the pool system?
12:14:23 * Yexo has no idea what "the link capacities" are/is
12:14:38 <fonsinchen> I have a std::map<StationID, LinkStat> in GoodsEntry
12:14:48 <fonsinchen> I want to save/load that
12:15:41 <fonsinchen> LinkStat is a struct
12:16:02 <fonsinchen> with two values - uint capacity; uint usage
12:16:08 <Yexo> so why do you need to store a ref exactly?
12:16:26 <Yexo> looks like you could just store "StationID, capacity, usage"
12:16:35 <fonsinchen> I'd like to do that
12:17:13 <fonsinchen> the only thing I see there is SLE_CONDLST and then either individual values like SLE_INT32 or REFs
12:17:57 <Yexo> 1) create a saveload struct with 1 entry (StationID)
12:18:09 <Yexo> 2) Create another saveload struct with 2 entries (capacity, usage)
12:18:59 <Yexo> 3) in the save function, iterate over your map and call SlObject twice (first with the stationid, then with the LinkStat struct
12:19:41 <fonsinchen> I guess I should reference it somehow in the SaveLoad struct for GoodsEntry?
12:20:33 <Yexo> call the new save function from within the goodsentry save function, likewise for load
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12:20:50 <Yexo> just make sure you know where the data is stored, so you can load it again
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13:01:49 <dihedral> uh, have a link for you Ammler
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13:06:36 <Ammler> what is this jokerice for?
13:09:48 <Rubidium> story Heath's Oscar?
13:11:04 <dihedral> Location: /dev/bash <- bash: /dev/bash: No such file or directory
13:11:36 <Rubidium> ln /bin/dash /dev/bash ;)
13:12:55 <Rubidium> your OS doesn't have dash?
13:14:32 <DASPRiD> dasprid@dasprid-desktop:~$ which dash
13:15:09 <dihedral> i do, but why would i link dash to /deb/bash? :-P
13:15:43 <Rubidium> cause dash prevents bash-isms
13:15:53 <DASPRiD> bash bashes your dash
13:25:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15565 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix [FS#2675]: dependency information wasn't requested after the content state was reset causing the dependencies not always being selected (and thus downloaded) automatically.
13:32:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15566 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Change: reintroduce space as valid method of selecting 'content' as long as the filter box is not focused. Enter will also work when the filter box is focused.
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13:49:40 <Nathan> Does anybody have a list of vehicles and what years they become available ?
13:50:09 <KenjiE20> default's are on the wiki
13:50:55 <Rubidium> but then... the year vehicles become available differs slightly between each run of OpenTTD
13:59:56 <Nathan> Could you link me, on wiki, I can only find the anmes of the vehicles, not what year they are issued.
14:00:06 <Nathan> An average date would be fine :)
14:01:38 <KenjiE20> Nathan; Look in the OTTD Manual orange box, the heading 'vehicles' is what you're after
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14:03:27 <Nathan> Ohhh, i didnt notice the link to the "conparrison table" Thankyou
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16:06:25 <dihedral> planetmaker is round yes, :-D
16:08:46 <planetmaker> Been slimmer once :D
16:09:34 <Yexo> I've a patch for you to test for FS#2674
16:09:42 <Yexo> at least, in a moment, after I fixed another bug :p
16:09:58 <planetmaker> that was the signal nearly-non-issue, right?
16:11:59 * planetmaker looks forward to that patch. But give me...two hours. I'll have to finish some text here first
16:14:26 <dihedral> hihi 'planetshaker' :-D
16:15:28 <planetmaker> oh, I rather stirr the constituents than shake them :P
16:19:39 <Rubidium> "Will it blend? Planetmaker"
16:19:50 <Rubidium> or is that too rigurous for stirring?
16:20:11 <Rubidium> planetmaker: you don't know will it blend?
16:20:32 <SmatZ> only Chuck Norris doesn't blend
16:20:32 *** SmatZ was kicked by DorpsGek (SmatZ)
16:21:15 <planetmaker> I guess the answer is: partially :)
16:22:50 <SmatZ> Rubidium: you learned how to kick? :-p
16:23:55 <SmatZ> glx: it kicks for what?
16:24:43 <Forked> if that was a manual kick it was the best response time I've ever seen :)
16:24:58 <dihedral> SmatZ, chuck norris is the blender
16:24:58 *** dihedral was kicked by DorpsGek (dihedral)
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16:25:04 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: dihedral was last seen in #openttd 6 seconds ago: <dihedral> SmatZ, chuck norris is the blender
16:25:39 <glx> [17:25:10] <DorpsGek> Error: I cowardly refuse to kick myself.
16:26:13 <SmatZ> glx: why do you have kick for that? is there a kicklist somewhere? :-p
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16:26:43 * SmatZ thinks about zero-width space and other unicode tricks :)
16:27:00 <glx> if ($str.matchnocase(chuck*norris, $3)) { <-- yes
16:27:17 <dihedral> norris, chuck <- that then works
16:27:25 <Forked> hm.. what about chuck norris?
16:27:35 <SmatZ> congratulations, Forked :)
16:27:51 <Forked> oldest trick in the book when it comes to triggers like that
16:27:53 *** Forked was kicked by DorpsGek (you won)
16:28:00 <Forked> (manual rejoin on kick)
16:28:33 <dihedral> write a DorpsGek alias :-P
16:28:57 <Forked> shutting up now.. getting back to work.
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16:31:27 <petern> how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
16:32:25 <petern> would a woodchuck chuck chuck norris?
16:32:25 *** petern was kicked by DorpsGek (petern)
16:32:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petern
16:32:51 <petern> so why is chuck norris a banned phrase?
16:32:51 *** petern was kicked by DorpsGek (petern)
16:32:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petern
16:33:10 <petern> i like chuck norris films
16:33:11 *** petern was kicked by DorpsGek (petern)
16:33:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petern
16:34:33 *** Sacro was kicked by DorpsGek (Sacro)
16:35:34 *** petern was kicked by DorpsGek (petern)
16:35:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petern
16:35:41 *** petern was kicked by DorpsGek (petern)
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16:35:48 *** petern was kicked by DorpsGek (petern)
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16:35:59 <Forked> openttd is a great game.. thank you all for creating it :-)
16:36:01 *** petern was kicked by DorpsGek (petern)
16:36:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petern
16:36:14 *** petern was kicked by DorpsGek (petern)
16:36:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petern
16:36:21 *** petern was kicked by DorpsGek (petern)
16:36:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o petern
16:36:27 *** petern was kicked by DorpsGek (Yexo)
16:36:33 <Forked> now how did this regexp ignore work again..
16:36:34 <el_en> petern is stuck in an infinite loop
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16:37:03 *** petern sets mode: +b *!*truebrain@openttd.org
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21:31:37 <energetic> frosch123+Alberth: thanks. Still have not seen the goods code. I will conclude hereby goods dont help town growth?
21:32:07 <planetmaker> energetic: check out todays nightly. Then you'll see w/o looking through the code
21:32:42 <frosch123> energetic: goods only make more money :)
21:32:55 <energetic> planetmaker: what do you mean?
21:33:17 <planetmaker> energetic: what frosch123 (?) told you before: as of today the needed goods are shown in the town window
21:33:42 <energetic> you mean water+food?
21:33:50 <planetmaker> whatever helps a town grow.
21:33:58 <planetmaker> in arctic it's certainly not water
21:34:10 <planetmaker> in temperate it's nothing
21:34:40 <energetic> arctic maybe food, tropical maybe water+food
21:35:06 <energetic> is it: "whatever helps a town grow" or: "whatever a town _needs_ to grow"?
21:35:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15567 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2674]: When building signals by dragging from a pre/entry/combo block signal, the signal you started at became a normal block signal.
21:35:24 <Yexo> it's "whatever a towns needs to grow"
21:35:49 <Yexo> "whatever helps a town grow" == "have much regural serviced stations (no matter which cargo)"
21:36:18 <energetic> well water and food was known, and is listed on the wiki manual page correctly. But goods are listed on the manual page, but isnt actually implemented in ottd.
21:36:43 <energetic> it says goods delivery helps a town grow. --> which is incorrect.
21:36:51 <Yexo> so go fix that wiki page :p
21:36:52 <frosch123> then fix the manual
21:37:02 <energetic> you guys should fix the code ;)
21:37:14 <Yexo> the code is always the correct reference :)
21:37:15 <Alberth> energetic: line 603 of town_cmd.cpp mentions goods
21:37:38 <Alberth> no idea what it means though
21:37:54 <energetic> it checks there if goods r accepted
21:37:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15568 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: *allocT/AllocaM doesn't return NULL when allocating fails
21:38:00 <Yexo> that commet is a bit odd there
21:38:26 <energetic> not actually doing somehting with the goods amount like if(act_goods >0) town_grow_multiplier++;
21:38:44 <frosch123> the sign of cargoacceptance defines whether a house accepts goods or food
21:38:52 <Forked> chico008 posted a link on the forum to a file containing trg*.grf .. in the IS thread
21:38:59 <energetic> but since I know quite some about the mechanics now, ill update the page soon
21:39:06 <energetic> just need to get the facts right
21:39:43 <Alberth> that seems like a logical order of doing things
21:39:59 <dihedral> no, write a patch for r10000 and give it to alain
21:40:03 <Yexo> Forked: if you posted a link to his post, it'd be a lot easier to locate
21:40:04 <energetic> then later ill write the patch increasing towngrowth using anystuff dropped nearby
21:40:13 <Forked> Yexo: I'm just about to report it
21:40:21 <welshdragon> translations have a lot of commits pending
21:40:36 <dihedral> they get commited every night
21:40:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15569 /trunk/src/ (oldpool.cpp screenshot.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: replace MallocT + memset( 0 ) calls by CallocT
21:40:49 <Rubidium> welshdragon: depends on what you call a lot
21:41:01 <energetic> tnx guys for helping me out here
21:41:04 <Forked> link to the win32 client, not the save obviously :)
21:41:05 <welshdragon> my 3 commits to welsh have yet to be added to SVN
21:41:30 <dihedral> well at least he says thank you ;-)
21:42:00 * Forked takes the dog for a walk
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21:42:18 <energetic> Yexo: that surely adds to the fun factor
21:43:02 <energetic> (the code is always the correct ref)
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21:45:10 <energetic> nice windows updates btw :)
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22:24:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15570 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: Too long strings in the advanced settings window are now truncated.
22:25:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15571 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: incorrect use of memset
22:31:04 * planetmaker wonders... why were my language updates I made last evening not included in todays nightly?
22:31:28 <planetmaker> (I completely futily speeded with translating the three new strings)
22:31:59 <planetmaker> minimum number of string changes over all languages?
22:32:05 <SmatZ> there wasn't Translators' commit today
22:32:25 <SmatZ> no, it depends on in how good mood Rubidium is ;)
22:32:39 <planetmaker> Is it manual or automatical? It was my impression it was automatical... :P
22:32:47 <planetmaker> Good though, that Rubidium is no bot :D
22:33:37 <planetmaker> thx for this clearification :)
22:34:07 <planetmaker> explains why I couldn't detect a pattern so far, too :)
22:34:54 <dihedral> planetmaker, shortely before a nightly build
22:35:20 <planetmaker> dihedral: yeah. But not always :)
22:35:38 <dihedral> exceptions are proof of the rule :-P
22:35:44 <planetmaker> And the yes/no doesn't have a predictable pattern to me :)
22:36:19 <planetmaker> (which doesn't matter, but I was curious)
22:37:34 * Rubidium was preoccupied with more important things ;)
22:45:26 <dihedral> planetmaker, playing with your life?
22:45:55 <planetmaker> No, reading Leonie Swann's "Glennkill"
22:49:58 <Bjarni> hehe... instead of playing with his life, planetmaker decided to read "...kill"
22:50:21 <Bjarni> in a way it is playing with life
22:50:26 <planetmaker> Bjarni: its a criminal story - where sheeps are the detectives ;)
22:50:50 <Bjarni> aren't they called "sheep" in plural?
22:51:42 * Sacro leans on Bjarni and falls asleep
22:52:21 * Bjarni wakes up and realise his bed is infested
22:52:28 <dihedral> glx: one aircraft, two planes
22:52:47 * Bjarni sets his bed on fire to avoid the contamination to spread
22:53:36 <Bjarni> 1 cow, tucows(.com), 3 cows, 4 cows
22:54:24 <dihedral> now lets do the same thing with dice
22:55:21 <planetmaker> yep... plurals... I should go and count sheep ;)
22:58:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15572 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13730): theoretical buffer overflow when company with too long name funded a road reconstruction
23:04:09 <planetmaker> dihedral: what's the max numbers JJ can handle reasonably?
23:04:22 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 2305843009213693952
23:04:31 <planetmaker> ^^not prime, but it's a mersenne prime
23:04:59 <SmatZ> DorpsGek: doesn't seem to be significantly better in math than JJ
23:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> either it is prime or it is not prime
23:05:11 <planetmaker> SmatZ: same bot, different name ;I
23:05:45 *** Eddi|zuHause is now known as Eddi|zuHause2
23:06:36 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
23:07:06 <Rubidium> planetmaker: if something isn't a prime, it can't be a mersenne prime
23:07:08 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: can I say "3.1 is not a prime"? I think it's undefined... maybe it depends on how you specify primality, but you can't say "remainder of division" for non-natural numbers
23:07:28 <planetmaker> Rubidium: well. I found 2**61 - 1 in a list of mersenne primes
23:07:40 <FauxFaux> "Primality is a property of positive integers that specifes.."
23:07:41 <planetmaker> So my assumption is that this bot has a limitation on its numbers
23:07:50 <Eddi|zuHause> 3.1 (in |R) is a unit, units can never be primes (hence why 1 is not a prime)
23:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause> a number in a ring is a unit, if it has an inverse (for multiplication)
23:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> FauxFaux: that's the elementary school definition of primes...
23:09:58 <Rubidium> planetmaker: then that number must be a prime (or the list is incorrect)
23:10:14 <SmatZ> Rubidium: DorpsGek fails to compute 2**61 - 1 correctly
23:10:18 <planetmaker> well... wiki knows the same exponent of 2 to indicate the 9th mersenne prime
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23:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you are mixing different maths
23:13:13 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if i define 2+2=5, then you cannot apply theorems which rely on 2+2=4 anymore
23:13:16 <SmatZ> [00:08:07] <Eddi|zuHause> 3.1 (in |R) is a unit, units can never be primes (hence why 1 is not a prime) <== does it mean you can have primes defined for any ... monoid?
23:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: there are more or less useful ways to generalise primes
23:14:11 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: well, then at least one of symbols "2,+,=,5" don't have the "usual" meaning
23:14:18 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: well. But then the definition of what constitutes a prime isn't valid anymore either as prime is so far only defined over the body of the positive integers
23:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, and in this case, "**" does not have the "usual" meaning
23:14:37 <planetmaker> especially mersenne prime isn't defined there
23:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, but then "2**61-1 is a tramway" has the same amount of meaningful information as "2**61-1 is a mersenne prime"
23:17:07 <planetmaker> I assume you've read David Hofstadter? An eternal golden Braid?
23:17:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i have read nothing...
23:17:29 <planetmaker> you should, you'll enjoy it :)
23:24:46 <planetmaker> so... going to count sheep for now :)
23:24:51 <planetmaker> Have a good night folks :)
23:26:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15573 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15538): Terrain type and sea level couldn't be changed in the scenario editor.
continue to next day ⏵
