IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-02-23
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00:42:29 <Felicitus> planetmaker: around?
00:42:45 <planetmaker> somewhat... but sleepy :)
00:43:00 <Felicitus> what version of openttd do you use?
00:43:02 <planetmaker> I should be sleeping for two hours already :P
00:43:02 <Morloth> Hey Felicitus! How is your AI progressing? :)
00:43:23 <Felicitus> Morloth: pretty well!
00:43:31 <Felicitus> but i have to find out why it doesnt work on planetmaker's box
00:43:55 <planetmaker> I'm not 100% sure, if I put everything in the right place. Maybe we walk through it together :)
00:44:23 <Felicitus> yes but that it breaks in info.nut line 1 is odd
00:44:31 <planetmaker> I'm not too experienced with the setup of AIs :)
00:44:46 <planetmaker> e.g. all I ever got were from bananas.
00:45:05 <planetmaker> (though I tested two in noai-times)
00:46:15 <Felicitus> hmm 15549 should be alright
00:46:44 <planetmaker> so... where exactly do I move this folder (or those two folders, felicitusAI and library)? Where are they at your place?
00:46:59 <Felicitus> well, i have tar'ed them in bin/ai
00:47:08 <planetmaker> I even made a tar of felicitusAI and put it in various places.
00:47:19 <Felicitus> so if you are on *nix, just uncompress them in bin/ai
00:47:32 <Felicitus> so you have bin/ai/FelicitusAI in the end
00:47:43 <Felicitus> do you have a binary build?
00:48:02 <planetmaker> what do you mean?
00:48:18 <Felicitus> i mean if you downloaded a binary version (e.g. the nightly) or if you built openttd from source
00:48:18 <Morloth> Felicitus: Can you send me a copy as well? I'm keen to try it :)
00:48:28 <planetmaker> oh, self-compiled
00:49:01 <Felicitus> planetmaker: on linux?
00:49:21 <planetmaker> so basically it's the same from the handling perspective
00:49:43 <Felicitus> so you should have a folder "ai" inside the folder you've got your openttd binary
00:49:49 <Felicitus> and the stuff goes into that ai folder
00:50:03 <Felicitus> e.g. i got my binary in /home/timo/workspace/openttd-git/bin
00:50:19 <Morloth> planetmaker: Put it in ~/Documents/Openttd/content_download/ai
00:50:19 <Felicitus> so i have my ai folder in /home/timo/workspace/openttd-git/bin/ai
00:50:21 <planetmaker> let me compile latest trunk
00:50:25 <planetmaker> and put it in there
00:50:51 <Felicitus> yes but that it gives you an error means that it is in the right folder, i just have no clue why it doesn't compile the info.nut file
00:51:04 <Felicitus> its just "class FelicitusAI extends AIInfo {" in there
00:51:48 <Rubidium> dos vs unix newlines?
00:52:07 <Felicitus> hmm i'm not sure, let me check
00:52:38 <planetmaker> hm... just got an idea...
00:52:43 <Felicitus> CRLF, that's dos, right?
00:52:46 <planetmaker> hg doesn't automatically pull 3rdparty
00:53:19 <Morloth> Felicitus: I get an error when starting your AI. I'll upload a screenshot 1 sec
00:54:00 <Zahl> Rubidium: do you know of any memory leaks in ottd? or did i just skrew something up when i compiled it
00:55:13 <Rubidium> depending on what OS there might be a few OS related things; SDL leaks a bit, gethostname might leak a bit, but don't know of any openttd leaks (in Linux)
00:55:34 <Felicitus> Morloth: do you have a Pathfainder.Rail-library from bananas? if yes, you need to make sure it loads the bundled one
00:55:56 <Morloth> Felicitus: You mean the one you provided?
00:56:13 <Felicitus> Morloth: yes. because the one from bananas doesn't work for me, i have to talk to yexo to make a change
00:57:50 <Zahl> i compiled on windows using vs2005
00:58:13 <Zahl> memory usage increases by 4kb every few seconds
00:58:16 <Felicitus> Morloth: so just move the .tar out of content_download and you should be fine :)
00:58:32 <Rubidium> I don't know about any Windows abstraction layer leaks
00:58:46 <Rubidium> but that's because I've never ever tested it
00:59:00 <planetmaker> there's a number of "taking first library of two same versions", but always yours take precedence
00:59:06 <Zahl> i also compiled the dedicated server on linux, but i don't know how to interpret the values top displays :>
00:59:09 <Felicitus> planetmaker: i'm just converting all line breaks, give me a few minutes
00:59:42 <planetmaker> you think that's it?
01:00:04 <Rubidium> Zahl: how are you determining memory leaks?
01:00:35 <Felicitus> planetmaker: yes. try the file again
01:00:37 <Zahl> well, basically just increasing memory usage
01:00:48 <planetmaker> Felicitus: which?
01:01:16 <Rubidium> Zahl: that doesn't tell much about real leaks or just the game state getting bigger
01:01:50 <Felicitus> Morloth: openttd version too old :) let me look up which release you need
01:02:03 <Zahl> Rubidium: well after restarting the game and loading the savegame again it drops down again... at the beginning its around 30MB and after some hours its up to 120MB or more and the gameplay gets jerky
01:02:11 <planetmaker> just to make sure I don't do a stupid mistake. Just unzip and put the stuff in bin/ai, right?
01:02:21 <Rubidium> Zahl: running with AIs?
01:02:42 <Morloth> Felicitus: I'll download the latest nightly
01:02:49 <Felicitus> Morloth: yes, that should do the trick
01:02:58 <Rubidium> Zahl: is your build modified?
01:03:38 <Felicitus> GetPower was introduced not too long ago, around r15530
01:03:44 <Zahl> Rubidium: yes, but i only made days last 20 times longer, so that really shouldn't cause it
01:04:04 <Felicitus> okay, you need at least r15524, Morloth
01:04:50 <Rubidium> Zahl: thing is, I've never heard anybody talk about the behaviour you're having
01:05:13 <Zahl> Rubidium: oh and on the linux dedicated i don't see any steady memory increasement, but the "VIRT" column in top says 3055M, which soulds wierd to me
01:05:32 <Zahl> i'll have a look at this tomorrow, i just discovered it today
01:05:46 <Felicitus> planetmaker: perfect :)
01:05:52 <Felicitus> Rubidium: thanks for the line endings tip :)
01:06:40 <Rubidium> Zahl: got no clue then; maybe you can make it reproducable by: load this game, wait X amount of time in clean trunk
01:07:02 <Morloth> Felicitus: Working :)
01:08:00 <planetmaker> though... the script now got an error...
01:08:11 <Rubidium> Felicitus: using mingw/cygwin?
01:08:26 <Felicitus> Rubidium: no, eclipse on linux. probably CRLF was default for some reason
01:08:31 <Felicitus> planetmaker: which one?
01:09:41 <Morloth> Felicitus: I'm only a little bit afraid you use a to high WA* algorithm, it's a little bit to much inclined to go to the target. The pathfinder will be faster (usually), but the tracks get a little to curvy IMHO.
01:10:09 <Morloth> But otherwise it's an impressive start! :)
01:10:11 <Felicitus> Morloth: yes, right now it iterates through the path a few times. i have to change that
01:10:50 <Felicitus> how often did it put out "transferring ..." ?
01:11:16 <Felicitus> planetmaker: did you just put the tar there or did you untar the stuff?
01:11:25 <planetmaker> I just put the tar there
01:11:42 <planetmaker> should I have put library seperate?
01:11:48 <Felicitus> oh pleae untar it. i use relative include directives, which might not work with tar files
01:12:19 <Felicitus> Morloth: because for every "transferring..." line, it does 2 pathbuilder calls for now
01:13:02 <planetmaker> hehe. Timestamps from the future ;)
01:13:28 <Felicitus> :) it's 02:13 am here
01:13:59 <Rubidium> hmm, \r\n should't matter, but why does it:
01:15:02 <Felicitus> Morloth: yep, i know :) i might have to adjust the multiplier a littlebit better, right now it's using a multiplier of 2, which might be too much
01:15:03 <planetmaker> that did the trick, Felicitus :)
01:15:09 <Felicitus> planetmaker: great :)
01:15:16 <Morloth> Felicitus: I'd say so ;)
01:15:21 <planetmaker> indeed :) Your work! :)
01:15:35 <Felicitus> well without yexo and the others, it wouldnt be possible
01:15:51 <Felicitus> imagine if i really built my own pathfinder - i wouldn't be so far with the engine
01:16:12 <Zahl> Rubidium: just downloaded the latest nightly build and loaded my savegame, it seems to be the same thing there... about 4kb every second
01:16:14 <Morloth> Well, we're all here to help each other :)
01:16:26 <Felicitus> Morloth: but using the stock rail pathfinder was too slow - it took months to find a route for a distance of, let's say, 200
01:16:35 <Morloth> But I really like your iterative approach to building train stations
01:16:50 <Zahl> Rubidium: i'll leave the game open without doing anything for some time...
01:17:09 <Morloth> Felicitus: Yeah, it usually takes a bit of fiddling with the multipliers and other magic numbers before you find the 'sweet spot'
01:17:51 <planetmaker> it doesn't build hubs yet, does it?
01:18:02 <Felicitus> Morloth: if you want, you can change the multiplicator (yes, i know, it's called multiplier :)) in industry_connector.nut line 559 and line.nut line 118. try 1.5 or 1.1
01:18:39 <Felicitus> planetmaker: no not yet, i have to finish the upgrading stuff first, there are still some problems, and i want that the station builder can do terraforming
01:19:03 <planetmaker> track builder should do that moderately, too
01:19:14 <planetmaker> it's building partially unnecessary slow curves
01:19:23 <Felicitus> because right now, it rarely builds a station with a two track main line
01:19:49 <Morloth> Damn Felicitus you managed to write quite some code the last few days!
01:20:18 <Felicitus> be glad that i documented only the station builder so far, it would be much more stuff then ;)
01:20:41 <Rubidium> Zahl: first few seconds my OpenTTD seems to be using more memory, but after that it doesn't change at all (for at least 2 minutes)
01:21:06 <Rubidium> that's fast forward without gui in a newly started game
01:21:14 <Zahl> it started at 28M after i loaded the game.. now its at 33M
01:21:31 <Zahl> the savegame i loaded has 5 companies and about 600 trains
01:21:33 <glx> Felicitus: if you modified pf.rail increase it's version (I just read the logs quickly)
01:22:02 <glx> that way it will pick the right one without problem
01:22:27 <glx> as both seems incompatible ;)
01:24:30 <Zahl> anyone else using windows to verify this?
01:24:31 <glx> that's map memory usage in bytes
01:24:48 <welshdragon> does any mac user know how to solve the issue of a vista pc not being able to see a msacbook?
01:25:05 <Morloth> /* I know this function is ugly, but it's 5:30 am ;) */ << I love programmer's idea of documentation ;)
01:25:07 <planetmaker> Felicitus: it doesn't seem to find profitable routes anymore...
01:25:17 <Felicitus> planetmaker: how much lines did he built=
01:25:23 <Felicitus> and has he got money left? :)
01:25:45 <Felicitus> maybe its out of money
01:25:46 <planetmaker> it calculates. But calculated routes' profit gets less and less
01:26:08 <welshdragon> glx: hmm, but it's on a lan, and firewall on vsta is disabled
01:26:19 <planetmaker> started with something like 12k
01:26:21 <glx> are they in the same workgroup ?
01:26:26 <planetmaker> now down to just below 8k
01:26:28 <Rubidium> hmm, memory usage tracking is tricky with industries popping up
01:26:42 <Felicitus> planetmaker: yes thats okay, that means that the good profit lines are too expensive to build, so it just iterates down until he finds one to build. if you want, you can use the money cheat and see what it does
01:26:47 <Rubidium> (or windows popping up)
01:27:23 <glx> welshdragon: can you access it using its IP ?
01:29:17 <planetmaker> well... actually... it should have much more.
01:29:22 <planetmaker> it's making good profit
01:29:27 <planetmaker> 180k was my money :P
01:30:03 <Felicitus> wow :) not bad for many lines, with one train each ;)
01:31:00 <Felicitus> well right now its only one train per line, so one of my next goals is to make it 2 track main line with dynamic train adding&removing
01:31:57 <Felicitus> yes, because the lines are so damn long, he makes a good profit, but the station rating goes down alot, so it could be much more profit
01:32:49 <planetmaker> each train makes 180k/yr profit
01:33:12 <Morloth> But an excelent begin. Your code seems to be pretty well organized :)
01:33:35 <planetmaker> funnily it built two adjacent stations at one powerplant
01:34:05 <Felicitus> yes, doesnt support a line network yet :) so everything is individual for now
01:34:09 <planetmaker> oh... it built a lot more now :)
01:34:26 <Felicitus> okay, time for a smoke, then let's see what evil things i could teach my AI then :D
01:34:55 <Morloth> I'd go for a backflip!
01:38:15 <planetmaker> it's only 256^2. So every line crosses there.
01:40:36 <Morloth> Ai, the AI seems to have a problem with the bigger stations
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01:46:04 <Felicitus> Morloth: yes, it blocks itself there (the pathfinder assumes that the tile is taken, and don't notice that it could build a diagonal track there)
01:46:43 <Felicitus> planetmaker: that won't happen later, as it would connect the two lines to a single track/station
01:46:46 <Felicitus> good night planetmaker
01:47:04 <planetmaker> good night / day / morning (whatever fits ;) )
01:51:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15554 /trunk/src/highscore_gui.cpp: -Fix: -v null crashing in 2051 due to trying to show the high score of the spectator.
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06:58:02 <Alberth> RS-SM: people are friendly here, and wish each other a good day
07:00:36 <smeding> i prefer caffeine now
07:06:47 <smeding> ahh, caffeine, far more soul-saving than jesus ever was for me
07:08:19 <Alberth> yeah, browsed most news, done the 1 email I had to do, time for some coffee
07:08:40 <smeding> you have your priorities all mixed up
07:15:29 *** Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggstry
07:17:05 <Alberth> i was still having breakfast
07:17:29 <smeding> so you're missing a major food group
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08:30:42 <dihedral> could .htignore and .gitignore include a pattern to ignore all .svn folders?
08:31:14 <dihedral> when doing an hg init in an svn working copy you can screw stuff up pretty nicely if you have the .svn folders in the hg repository
08:36:00 <Alberth> I simply add them to the hg files, and thus have hg managed svn files. Works quite nicely, since I never change svn files anyway, except for update, in which case I have to update the hg files anyway.
08:37:56 <dihedral> you have various hg branches i take it?
08:38:04 <Alberth> alternatively, you could have a look in doing hg management of svn controlled projects. their Wiki has a page on them. The ultimate is hgpullsvn which makes a hg copy of the svn repo.
08:38:31 <Alberth> yes, one 'trunk' clone of the hg of trunk, and local clones of that clone for each branch
08:39:17 <dihedral> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk openttd; cd openttd; hg init
08:40:48 <Alberth> no, a clone of the public hg openttd trunk
08:40:54 <dihedral> yes, i know what you mean
08:40:57 <dihedral> but that is not what i mean
08:41:40 <dihedral> and if you clone the trunk hg repo, you dont have .svn folders
08:41:52 <Alberth> I did what you propose with bzr before we had the hg mirror.
08:42:28 <Alberth> in your case you do have the .svn folders, which is not a problem since you never use them
08:42:54 <dihedral> then try overwriting the important data in the .svn folder
08:43:03 <dihedral> and you pretty much screwed up
08:43:21 <Alberth> why would you want to write in .svn?
08:43:27 <dihedral> which can happen if you change to another branch in hg
08:43:36 <dihedral> Alberth, are you at all reading?
08:44:00 <Alberth> yes, but I don't understand what you aim for, I think
08:44:00 <dihedral> if you have .svn folders in the hg repo (hg repo is _inside_ svn working copy, or rather, the working copy _is_ the hg repo)
08:44:25 <dihedral> again: svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk openttd; cd openttd; hg init
08:44:29 <Alberth> what is the problem with that?
08:44:38 <dihedral> you overwrite .svn folders
08:44:57 <dihedral> as soon as you have added the files to the hg repo and switch around branches
08:45:53 <dihedral> sorry - let me ask another way - do you understand what i am trying to do?
08:46:00 <Alberth> with the .svn folders in the hg repo?
08:46:16 <dihedral> that is what happens if you do an hg add and have no ignore for .svn folders ;-)
08:47:11 <Alberth> sorry, but I don't understand the problem. When you make a branch, you also copy the .svn folders, so switching a branch also switches the .svn files
08:47:33 <dihedral> you then over time have new revs so you do an svn up
08:47:57 <dihedral> if you then switch around your hg branches, you also overwrite .svn folders
08:47:57 <Alberth> no, you merge from the main hg
08:48:23 <dihedral> you mean the default branch?
08:48:32 <dihedral> yes of course you do that!
08:48:44 <dihedral> the prob is with overwriting .svn folders which you do when you switch around
08:48:54 <Alberth> with that merge, the .svn folders also get updated
08:48:54 <dihedral> when you do so, you can fuck up the working copy
08:49:19 <Alberth> you want to work with svn as well?
08:49:42 <dihedral> Alberth, wait a second please, i will get you a url ;-)
08:50:02 <Alberth> if you do changes with svn without telling hg, you 'll mess up indeed. So don't do that :)
08:51:11 <dihedral> Alberth, you are so not getting the point
08:52:56 <dihedral> Alberth, just from the first block of code you should get the picture
08:54:44 <Alberth> you seem to keep .svn stuff out of hg
08:55:40 <dihedral> else you muddle up the working copy
08:55:58 <dihedral> hence i asked if the ignore pattern could be added to the .hgignore file which is in trunk/
08:59:55 <Alberth> I think it is the other way around. Suppose we don't copy the .svn folder into hg. you make a few branches in hg (that svn knows nothing about), and switch between them. With each switch, the .svn files are not touched, so you get 'real' files and the .svn meta-data out of sync with each other.
09:01:03 <dihedral> you should not touch the .svn folders
09:01:31 <Alberth> ok, let's assume that
09:01:33 <dihedral> i managed to screw that stuff up and it can get a whole bunch of fun trying to rescue your patches out of the hg repo
09:01:49 <dihedral> and it screwed up exactly because the .svn folders were in the hg repo
09:02:28 <dihedral> if you svn up, that is your svn base for svn diff
09:03:45 <Alberth> huh? (let me give a counter-example)
09:04:29 <Alberth> I have hg branch default, so svn up, hg ci. then hg up otherbranch; svn up does nothing!
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09:06:37 <Ammler> dihedral: is that a easy way to work with mercurial (offline), but making svn diffs at the end?
09:06:59 <Alberth> I see 'svn' as a program to modify 'my' source files, just like an editor.
09:08:06 <Alberth> before we had a hg public repo, yes
09:08:37 <petern> svn is a version control system, not an editor... so...
09:09:20 <Alberth> svn is a program to update sources from an external source. It also happens to update some of its own internal files, which you should keep together
09:09:44 <Alberth> (it becomes a VCS once you have commit access ;) )
09:09:52 <petern> mixing svn and hg is a fucking stupid thing to do
09:10:10 <dihedral> petern, yes? how about talking to the thousands of people who do that?
09:10:29 <dihedral> and you dont even get to notice they use hg
09:10:47 <dihedral> there is also someone you know who does that
09:11:27 <dihedral> and a hg init in an svn co is not that uncommon for those people who want to use hg but get files from a svn repo
09:11:38 <dihedral> it's even documented!
09:12:01 <dihedral> and not as a 'stupid idea'
09:12:57 <Alberth> petern: why is it stupid? I never use svn in my branches, so the files never get changed.
09:13:47 <Alberth> I do not try to use svn for diffs. I use the hg VCS for that.
09:14:18 <dihedral> Alberth, he is not talking about solely using hg being stupid!!
09:15:32 <petern> you should just clone the hg repo instead
09:16:11 <Alberth> I did, and that's what I use now. It is much better.
09:17:05 <Alberth> The only current problem is /3rdparty/squirrel. hg is bad at merging repo's from different sources.
09:18:05 <dihedral> petern, there are a few reasons why someone would do hg init in an svn working copy!
09:18:19 <dihedral> and i may not be the only one doing so
09:18:55 <Alberth> I think basically anybody that wants a VCS on the sources without commit access.
09:23:30 <Ammler> dihedral: maybe others need that, because they do not have a hg source to clone from.
09:23:56 <dihedral> well that is one of the reasons yes
09:24:39 <dihedral> for at least one of those with commit rights it's because commit is only done to svn
09:24:54 <dihedral> also as one of the reasons
09:25:54 <Ammler> but it seems not easy for just having a svn diff.
09:27:21 <petern> you should use svn export if there is no hg repo to clone
09:27:46 <Alberth> but svn export copies everything every time
09:28:35 <Alberth> maybe the confusion comes from the different view of the problem depending on whether or not you have commit access.
09:29:10 <Alberth> in the latter case, I can see the advantage of not copying .svn files into the local VCS
09:29:22 <Alberth> (ie if you do have commit access)
09:30:13 <Ammler> Alberth: how to do make svn diffs for windows guys?
09:30:34 <petern> you just make hg diffs
09:30:55 <Ammler> Well, it is something like the official openttd format, isn't?
09:31:14 <petern> just because *just* tortoisesvn cannot handle non-tortoisesvn style diffs, doesn't mean it is a not a proper diff
09:31:21 <Alberth> Ammler: if you just do a 'svn co' and work in there without further VCS for your changes, there is no problem.
09:31:32 <Rubidium> by royal decree: whatever `patch` likes is part of the official openttd format ;)
09:32:06 <Alberth> just create them in your editor! :D
09:32:08 <petern> subversion doesn't even apply diffs
09:32:16 <petern> so it's something that tortoisesvn has got fucked up
09:32:23 <dihedral> <petern> you should use svn export if there is no hg repo to clone <- then you dont get why people do it!
09:32:47 <Rubidium> because something is documented doesn't make it right, does it?
09:34:04 <dihedral> Rubidium, have a chat with TB perhaps he can explain it a wee bit better
09:34:08 <dihedral> i seem to fail at this point
09:35:47 <Rubidium> anyhow, if you want .svn ignored, change your global hg ignores
09:36:24 <dihedral> i just thought i might want to add it as others might use this approach too
09:37:48 <Alberth> dihedral: it is much worse trying to convince hg that the .hgignore file is bad, and should be ignored imho.
09:38:11 <Sacro> why should hgignore be ignored?
09:38:36 <Sacro> i commit it, it's useful to have around
09:38:50 <Sacro> then when i checkout, build, alter, commit
09:39:07 <Sacro> I don't have it commiting the build cruft
09:39:18 <Alberth> locally, yes. However, if you get it from a 'svn co', and it is broken
09:39:38 <dihedral> then it needs fixing!
09:40:23 <Alberth> imho it is fine the way it is currently
09:41:12 <petern> hmm, 44291 seconds to synchronise someone's mailbox :o
09:43:41 <murr4y> that's what linus torvalds said
09:43:51 <murr4y> and then he went and made his OWN vcs
09:43:57 <murr4y> are you ready to do that? huh?
09:44:13 <db48x> he didn't have the option of using hg
09:44:17 <db48x> or git, for that matter
09:44:24 <db48x> (although I suppose that's a tautology)
09:44:52 <murr4y> ..that would be because git's the vcs he made
09:45:59 <dihedral> you should listen to his google talk
09:47:09 <db48x> like I said, it's a tautology
09:47:18 <db48x> it wasn't available because it wasn't available
09:48:26 <dihedral> wow - your wisdom today is just astounding!
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09:49:04 <Ammler> db48x: the question now is, would "he" use Mercurial if that would have been available at that time? ;-)
09:49:20 <db48x> yes, that is a good question
09:49:34 <db48x> I can only prognosticate, but probably
09:50:59 <db48x> hg doesn't have a few minor things that git does, but that's often a benefit
09:51:06 <db48x> for example, it doesn't have a rebase command
09:51:16 <db48x> but the rebase command was a huge mistake
09:51:40 <db48x> it allows the user to erase history
09:52:29 <Ammler> well, it is like export, nothing special then :-)
09:52:46 <petern> 18 deg C harddrives :(
09:53:16 <db48x> no, export doesn't remove the history from the repository, it merely produces a copy of the current revision with no links back to the repository
09:53:41 <db48x> rebase lets you take a set of changes to the repository and rewrite them into a different set of changes
09:53:58 <db48x> so I commit a new feature, then commit a fix for a typo 20 minutes later
09:54:19 <db48x> I can use the rebase command to erase those two commits and commit a single changeset that makes it look like I never make mistakes
09:55:48 <db48x> it's probably not, as long as that's all you ever use it for
09:56:12 <db48x> but what people actually use it for is to take 6 months of hard work and boil it down to a single perfect commit
09:56:49 <db48x> they hide in a cave for 6 months, then produce a single commit
09:57:02 <db48x> when they could have had people commenting and helping all along
09:57:05 <Rubidium> well, that's easy with hg too; just make a real clone of the repository, mess around in there, get the final diff and apply that to the real repository
09:57:17 <db48x> even if it meant that people could see every misstep, every typo
09:58:00 <db48x> Rubidium: sure, but then you lose some of hg's help in merging your changes
09:58:53 <db48x> in the mozilla project, people use patch queues to do rebasing
09:58:58 <Rubidium> I really hope you don't need hg's help in merging a diff with the same revision you made it against
09:59:15 <db48x> in a big project it'll never be the same revision you started with
09:59:49 <db48x> by the time you've made the patch available for testing and whatever reviews are required, lots of other patches will have been checked in
09:59:51 <Alberth> db48x: normally, you do a merge with the repo changes while you work
09:59:53 <Rubidium> how hard is merging the changes in the official repo into your cloned repo?
10:00:23 <Rubidium> and THEN making the diff and apply that to the offical repo
10:00:43 <db48x> but it's actually easier with a patchqueue
10:00:53 <db48x> even if it is half a dozen commands instead of two or three
10:01:16 <Alberth> but also with a patch queue you want to base from a recent central repo revision
10:01:31 <Alberth> otherwise a review makes no sense
10:01:37 <Rubidium> patch queues are just a glorified way of rebasing
10:01:49 <db48x> Rubidium: that's what I said
10:02:38 <db48x> I'm just saying that the way people use it is unfortunate, so making the rebase command do all the work for you is also unfortunate
10:04:24 <db48x> have you guys by any chance tested my own patch?
10:04:25 <Rubidium> that hg sucks from an admin point of view?
10:15:33 <planetmaker> good morning also :)
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10:26:16 <db48x> clients don't seem to know which other client issued a command
10:26:59 <db48x> just that some commands came from the network, and the rest are sent to the network
10:27:16 <Rubidium> do they need to know?
10:29:06 <db48x> makes my idea harder to implement though
10:31:09 <Alberth> Can a dev give me some comments on FS#2314?
10:32:12 <planetmaker> [11:26] <db48x> clients don't seem to know which other client issued a command <-- true
10:32:39 <Rubidium> free bonus comment: you didn't vote for it yourself
10:32:56 <Alberth> I never vote for issues :)
10:33:05 <planetmaker> db48x: what do you need to know for what a particular client did?
10:33:37 <db48x> planetmaker: I thought it would be nice for some user actions to be unobtrusively attributed
10:34:04 <db48x> building some track causes a bit of text to float by with the cost
10:34:08 <planetmaker> hehe. It is also a nice way to find out griefers :)
10:34:19 <db48x> making it "Cost: $nnnn (db48x)" seemed like it would be an easy way to go
10:35:26 <planetmaker> would be nice, yes
10:35:40 * Rubidium says something about can and worms
10:35:51 <db48x> I guess it's not something I can do tonight, since I have to read more code
10:36:54 <db48x> Rubidium: what unintended consequences do you think this might cause?
10:38:04 <db48x> I wouln't show the tag during a single-player game, obvously
10:39:49 <Rubidium> client A lags behind, client B sends command, client A receive command, client B quits, client B gets removed from client A's list of clients, client A executes client B's command, getting name results in NULL client info, causes NULL->name, ...
10:40:22 <db48x> I think I can safely dodge that one :)
10:40:26 <Rubidium> same way that a client can be removed while the text is floating; might also cause same segfault (or reading freed memory)
10:40:32 <SmatZ> Rubidium: use {CLIENTNAME} instead, where these cases are checked...
10:40:41 <SmatZ> I have a {CLIENTNAME} patch somewhere...
10:40:53 <SmatZ> but it doesn't have much of use...
10:41:45 <Rubidium> SmatZ: stop imitating peter 'I have a patch for that somewhere' n ;)
10:42:14 <db48x> SmatZ: I'd be interested if you can find the link without too much trouble
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10:50:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15555 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the mallocs + frees for temporary data from loading sprites.
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12:16:37 <Felicitus> planetmaker: i have good news for you
12:17:35 <Rubidium> what? You finished his little project?
12:18:00 <dihedral> Rubidium, i guess he means he has good news for himself, just wants to share it with pm :-P
12:18:27 <Felicitus> Rubidium: no :D which little project?
12:19:33 <planetmaker> [13:17] <Rubidium> what? You finished his little project? <-- hehe. What's my little project? The bloody apple font detection? :S
12:20:18 <Felicitus> planetmaker: it builds pretty neat 2 track mainlines now :)
12:20:24 <dihedral> planetmaker, did you not get the memo?
12:20:36 <Felicitus> and dynamically adds trains if there's enough cargo
12:20:44 <planetmaker> uhm... no... which memo, dihedral ?
12:20:56 <planetmaker> Felicitus: that's good news indeed :)
12:21:25 <planetmaker> I'm afraid: no, dihedral :S
12:21:39 <planetmaker> By what means should I have got that memo?
12:24:00 <dihedral> planetmaker, i mean your little job for openttd
12:25:37 <planetmaker> Not that I'm aware of.
12:26:23 <planetmaker> No e-mail or pm from any official openttd address or flyspray in recent times here.
12:29:21 <planetmaker> irrespective of that, yes, I'm still playing with the font selection. It still doesn't work though :(
12:29:34 <planetmaker> it still segfaults on me.
12:30:24 <planetmaker> but I have the feeling that the current approach might work somehow
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12:51:10 <Felicitus> okay, admiralAI is clearly beaten, cv-wise :)
12:51:27 <Felicitus> and even half of the lines of FelicitusAI don't work :(
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12:54:16 <planetmaker> From middle of the week I'll anyway have a bit more time again.
12:54:48 <Felicitus> and everyone else who likes to have a peek into it
12:55:10 <planetmaker> is that link in you tt-forums thread, Felicitus ?
12:55:19 <planetmaker> I can only come around to having a look tonight
12:55:48 <planetmaker> and I fear irc is to transient to remember this link :P
12:56:31 <dihedral> planetmaker, remember the date and search the logs :-P
12:57:13 <planetmaker> Felicitus: did you update the libraries so that there's no version conflict anymore? (Just curious)
12:58:00 <Felicitus> planetmaker: i'm writing the announcement right now
12:58:47 <Ammler> first serious train ai?
12:59:08 <Felicitus> Ammler: you can have a look at it if you like to
12:59:22 <Felicitus> Ammler: but don't expect too much, its the first version and many of the planned features aren't in there yet
12:59:24 <Ammler> available with banans?
13:00:08 <Felicitus> it's because the patched libraries aren't on bananas yet and I didnt see yexo to discuss if the changes are okay or if i should think of something else
13:00:40 <Ammler> just gunzip that to the ai folder
13:01:12 <Felicitus> the first FelicitusAI-train outperformed 7 years, 33 road vehicles and 3 trains of AdmiralAI
13:02:04 <Felicitus> Ammler: you might need to download again, there's a little bug i just found
13:02:10 <Felicitus> package is updated on my webspace
13:06:14 <Ammler> dbg: [ai] Registering two libraries with the same name and version
13:06:19 <dihedral> Felicitus, good work ;-)
13:06:27 <Ammler> do I need to replace the other one
13:06:54 <Felicitus> Ammler: no just ignore it
13:06:56 <Felicitus> dihedral: did you try it?
13:07:01 <Felicitus> Ammler: it should work
13:07:06 <dihedral> Felicitus, looking at code
13:07:28 <Ammler> then it asserts because of something else :-(
13:07:38 <Ammler> src/network/../oldpool.h:125: T* OldMemoryPool<T>::Get(uint) const [with T = NetworkClientInfo]: Assertion `index < this->GetSize()' failed.
13:07:47 <Felicitus> Ammler: which release?
13:08:19 <Felicitus> dihedral: i mean, how can someone measuring code? :)
13:08:23 <planetmaker> [14:07] <Ammler> hmm, sure? <--- yes
13:08:29 <planetmaker> worked here last night
13:08:47 <planetmaker> Ammler: also update 3rdparty
13:09:04 <Ammler> that happens automatically to trunk rev, afaik?
13:09:16 <planetmaker> which reminds me... I need to update my update_trunk script
13:09:19 <planetmaker> Ammler: using hg: no
13:09:20 <Ammler> the issue is just, if you need an older rev, isn't?
13:09:54 <planetmaker> I found out (again) hg doesn't yesterday
13:10:11 <Rubidium> De_ghosty: I can't figure out what you mean with your comment at FS#2662
13:10:20 <Ammler> yeah, it should go to trunk...
13:10:44 <Felicitus> ouch! i wrote 180k of code for my AI ?!?
13:11:30 <Felicitus> this means that the MTBF is down by at least...let's say...500.000 keypresses!
13:11:35 <Felicitus> of my keyboard, of course
13:12:18 <Ammler> Rubidium: could you explain me the difference between trunk and the nightly source. (copyright related)
13:14:01 <Ammler> well, that was the explaination, why squirrel isn't in trunk.
13:14:16 <Ammler> but it is in the nightly source.
13:15:37 <Rubidium> what a lame explanation ;)
13:16:36 <planetmaker> Felicitus: I'd like again to advertise bananas :) You might even get more testers that way
13:16:40 <Rubidium> the idea was that the squirrel API was stable (and squirrel was stable) and thus that all versions of squirrel would work with all versions of OpenTTD
13:17:37 <Rubidium> and thus that there was no need to copy the directory on branches and such
13:17:37 <Felicitus> planetmaker: i will use it as soon as i talked to yexo, because i don't want to upload a patched library without his comments
13:17:47 <planetmaker> (and of course it supports my lazyness :P)
13:17:55 <planetmaker> oh, ok, I understand that well. :)
13:18:49 <planetmaker> I just wonder whether you even *could* superseed the existing libraries...
13:20:13 <Felicitus> in 0.6.3, if you have 2 trains in the same station, loading stuff, the first one completes loading cargo and then leaves, and then the second one full loads
13:20:27 <Felicitus> in trunk, the cargo seems to be distributed among those two trains
13:20:39 <Rubidium> Felicitus: turn on fifo loading
13:21:23 <Felicitus> but its odd anyways - i got train A in the station, it was fully loaded to 50%. then train B came in, and left before train A (A had 80%, B had 100%)
13:22:07 <Rubidium> Felicitus: looks odd, isn't odd when you know how it works
13:22:21 <Felicitus> how does it work? :)
13:22:36 <planetmaker> also, the driver of the first train was having extended lunch with his girlfriend in that town
13:23:00 <dihedral> planetmaker, that's what you call it, ey? 'extended lunch'
13:23:09 <planetmaker> pssst, dihedral :)
13:23:19 <Rubidium> Felicitus: with improved loading off a train loads whatever he can and then waits a number of ticks (based on loading time of the wagons)
13:23:38 <Rubidium> so if cargo is brought to the station just after train A loaded, then train B loads all the new cargo
13:23:50 <Rubidium> if that happens most often, then B gets loaded before A
13:24:09 <Rubidium> with improved loading B can only load what A cannot take
13:24:43 <Rubidium> i.e. A and B can take 10 units, A is 50% full and 7 units arrive at the station. Then B loads 2 even when A isn't fully loaded yet
13:24:56 <Rubidium> as it's certain that A will be fully loaded in the next load cycle
13:25:13 <Felicitus> but fifo makes more sense
13:26:18 <Felicitus> wasn't on at my box
13:26:25 <Felicitus> maybe it confused with some old config?
13:27:15 <Felicitus> maybe because i also use 0.6.3 to play online
13:28:03 <Rubidium> mixing 0.6 (and less) openttd and 0.7 (and more) on the same config file isn't a great idea
13:28:38 <Felicitus> both seem to use ~/.openttd
13:30:22 * dihedral wonders where the sound replacement project is at (i.e. what's still missing)
13:30:50 <Ammler> dihedral: wiki tells it quite good.
13:31:07 <Ammler> monolev engines is the most important missing part.
13:33:11 <Ammler> there is no sound replacement which would work with current trunk
13:33:30 <Ammler> except touch sample.cat
13:34:02 * dihedral lets his hdd head 'touch' sample.cat
13:34:44 <dihedral> Rubidium, i know the thread
13:35:16 <dihedral> i was more wondering if anybody kept track of missing sounds - as only the achievements are mentioned across the 7 pages
13:35:18 <Ammler> well, that sounds :P cool
13:35:59 <Ammler> that last zip doesn't need the patch from orudge
13:36:12 <dihedral> Rubidium, already have been rtfw'd, see above ;-)
13:37:09 <Felicitus> because it *is* pretty kept on track there
13:37:20 <dihedral> thank you Felicitus !
13:37:37 <Felicitus> time for a smoke :)
13:37:42 <dihedral> why does not everybody in this channel tell me to read the wiki? :-P
13:38:03 <Ammler> why is that thread in general openttd, btw.?
13:38:18 * dihedral applies SirkoZ' smoke patch to Felicitus
13:42:40 <petern> i don't think people should actually care which bits of the forum you read
13:45:24 <planetmaker> dihedral: very unhealthy to apply that patch to persons :P
13:47:22 <dihedral> how about the day length patch right now? :-P
13:48:37 <Rubidium> how about which one?
13:48:53 <Rubidium> and where's the non-broken one?
13:51:00 * planetmaker also needs a day length patch and especially a nights length patch for RL
13:51:10 <petern> :/var/log # ls -1 | wc -l 4147
13:56:56 <Rubidium> petern: any interesting reads in those few logs?
13:59:51 <dihedral> you have about the same number of logs as i emails :-P
14:08:16 <SpComb> terom@shell ~ $ ls -1 /var/log/wwwlogs/ | wc -l
14:09:03 <SpComb> although I did reconfigure logrotate a month ago
14:17:14 <George> petern: What do you think about applying CB 3D to vehicles to control possible refit list?
14:25:29 <petern> i think that vehicles are not industries
14:26:05 <petern> while i see no reason that different feature types need to share the same numberspace, that's how it works
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14:49:09 <Avdg> hi, just wondering the new feature
14:49:11 <Avdg> Support vehicle vars 0x47 and 0xF2 in purchase list.
14:50:16 <Avdg> :/ seems nobody is active here :p
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14:51:17 <Roest> right, because you didn't get an answer within 10 seconds nobody is active here
14:51:53 <Avdg> maybe becouse i expected a 'hi' or something lol
14:52:09 <Avdg> oh i got the answer ty anyway :)
14:53:21 <dihedral> Roest: i have a ques.... oh - nobody here, bye
14:54:17 <Forked> no one are active? ohmygod! they shut down the internet
14:55:10 <dihedral> the internets <- it's plural :-P
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14:57:34 <dihedral> Alberth, nobody is active, no chance in getting a reply
15:02:56 <Alberth> that's ok, I will wait for the answer to my previous one ;)
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15:07:41 <glx> and all newgrf variables are documented on ttdpatch wiki ;)
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15:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause> am i dreaming or did alain actually update a patch by himself?
15:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the town distance patch
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16:21:08 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, would be about time
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17:54:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15556 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): -Change: don't temporary malloc+free when encoding sprites, just reuse the same piece of allocated memory for each encoding.
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18:03:52 <Rubidium> petern: what are your thoughts on FS#2646?
18:06:25 <petern> don't allow saving if grfs are missing
18:07:13 <petern> add a system to allow to specify grfs by grfid and md5sum instead of filename
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18:14:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15557 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix: the font width cache was not updated when changing fonts causing the font spacing to be off when changing fonts in-game (auto font detection).
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18:29:12 <planetmaker> saving a game while missing grfs doesn't make sense imo :)
18:29:29 <planetmaker> and it seems like I'll have to update my working copy on the font fixing issue
18:34:59 <petern> "Mediterranean Small by Truelight.bix"
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19:05:23 <planetmaker> petern: thx. then I'll have to look at it one day again :) It's a great game anyway :)
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19:36:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15558 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_object.hpp script/squirrel.hpp): -Cleanup: Remove some unnecessary friend declarations.
19:37:22 <frosch123> unnecessary friends :s
19:38:31 <Forked> I guess they didn't pay enough :\
19:38:39 <Prof_Frink> Friend 6. Generally unnecessary.
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20:03:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15559 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp landscape.h lang/english.txt town_gui.cpp): -Feature: Show required/already-delivered cargo needed for town-growth in town-view-window. (and only if it is really needed)
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20:08:27 <planetmaker> now, that's a nice feature, frosch123 :)
20:09:26 <frosch123> nice that you like it :)
20:16:31 <Belugas> yeah... no need to wonder anymore, nor to look at the wiki ;)
20:16:57 <Belugas> but nice any way hehehehe
20:16:59 <planetmaker> Belugas: exactly. It will save at least a few questions... :)
20:17:15 <planetmaker> so... it's better also for your well-being :P
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20:17:47 <welshdragon> will that revision be available tonight?
20:19:34 <frosch123> welshdragon: you have about 22 hours left to translate the new strings to welsh :p
20:19:54 <welshdragon> frosch123: i'm quite behind with the strings anyway
20:20:05 * welshdragon shall work on some tonight
20:20:43 <Belugas> "most of them" can be acceptable
20:21:49 <frosch123> planetmaker: go! go! go!
20:22:00 <planetmaker> Just submitting :P
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20:28:42 <Prof_Frink> welshdragon: Don't forget to slip an out of office reply into the translations
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20:43:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15560 /trunk/src/table/namegen.h: -Fix: typos in Spanish town names (Erregerre)
20:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15561 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2646]: segfault when saving a preset with unknown NewGRFs
20:58:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15562 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_core.cpp ai_gui.cpp ai_scanner.cpp): -Change: Use GetName() to determine the unique AI name instead of GetInstanceName() to make branching of AIs easier.
20:58:43 <frosch123> hehe, I am definitely not going to add it :p
21:06:11 <planetmaker> fs2674 for you then, frosch123 :) - or rather free for the taking ;)
21:07:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15563 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_industry.cpp ai_industry.hpp ai_industry.hpp.sq): -Change [API CHANGE]: Remove AIIndustry::GetMaxIndustryID().
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21:22:10 <welshdragon> i have a blank string
21:22:24 * welshdragon is finishing the welsh translations
21:23:52 <Belugas> that is indeed a blank string
21:24:44 <petern> STR_000E :THIS STRING INTENTIONALLY BLANK
21:25:26 <planetmaker> does it serve a purpose?
21:25:57 <Yexo> it's used as name for some cargos
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21:34:04 <welshdragon> w00t, welsh translation completed
21:34:13 <Eddi|zuHause> why does amarok 2 tell me "Failed: No tracks were imported" when i try to import my amarok 1.4 collection?
21:34:50 <Rubidium> cause it wants you not to use it?
21:38:50 <el_en> cause your locale is set to english and not german?
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21:58:30 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it's the warezs protection ;)
22:00:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15564 /trunk/src/cheat_gui.cpp: -Fix: Refresh all industry windows if the modify production cheat is enabled/disabled.
22:09:35 <DorpsGek> dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 0 hours, and 6 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> Merkin English and English English. <-- I thought it was corrupted English and real English :/
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22:40:58 <dihedral> (see attached file's comment)
22:47:12 <fonsinchen> Is there a StringID that does something like "<number>/<number>", for example "34/123"?
22:47:38 <fonsinchen> I want to print a relation between actually transported goods to capacities of the links in the smallmap.
22:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause> search for one? make one?
22:49:49 <glx> STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_AMOUNT_INT is the closer, but indeed you can add one if needed
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23:26:12 *** welshdragon is now known as off
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23:49:08 <dihedral> [00:28] * nik0518 (nik0518@82.138.241.220) has joined #oftc
23:49:08 <dihedral> [00:28] <nik0518> hello?
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continue to next day ⏵
