IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-02-05
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00:35:35 <glx> hmm why does it try to open a sound device ?
00:41:29 <Rubidium> cause it boots TTDP (I think)
01:13:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15345 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (6 files): -Add [NoAI]: Add AIVehicle::HasSharedOrders() and AIVehicleList_SharedOrders.
01:16:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15346 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_airport.cpp ai_airport.hpp ai_airport.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: Add AIAirport::GetNearestTown() so AIs can known in which town the noise level will increase.
01:29:13 <Sacro> my VS solution has 3 projects
01:29:24 <Sacro> do I have one mercurial doing the whole lot
01:29:32 <Sacro> or 3, one for each project
01:29:43 <Sacro> or 4, same as above and wone for the top folder
01:33:06 <Yexo> you're talking about openttd? Then you just have 1 mercurial repository (maybe 2, for squirrel)
01:33:18 <Sacro> no, this is a UNi project
01:33:53 <Rubidium> Sacro: you haven't provided enough options for me to answer
01:34:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r15347 /trunk/src/elrail.cpp: -Feature [FS#1761]: Don't draw superfluous catenary wires (based on a patch by Eddi).
01:35:01 <Rubidium> it depends on how dependend the projects are on eachother
01:35:08 <Rubidium> if they aren't make one for each project
01:35:32 <Rubidium> putting mercurial repos inside a repository doesn't seem like a good idea
01:35:46 <Sacro> Rubidium: well it's a client and server
01:35:54 <Sacro> and I was possibly going to use a dll to keep shared things in
01:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i certainly did not expect that one :)
01:36:28 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: yes, and even less than one year :)
01:36:55 <Yexo> if the client and server don't share code (except for the code in the dll) I'd say use seperate repositories
01:37:31 <Rubidium> too bad mercurial doesn't support externals ;)
01:37:35 <Sacro> Yexo: that's my thought
01:37:42 <Sacro> Rubidium: i has branches
01:38:02 <Rubidium> that's very not the same
01:40:08 <Sacro> perhaps I should use a different versionsing system
01:40:40 <Rubidium> the network code of OpenTTD and the masterserver are shared using svn:externals
01:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there appears to be a slight bug... it's barely visible, but when you go from that bridge along the wires to the left, there is a switch, and above the switch there seems to be a wrong sprite drawn
01:43:20 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: hmm, seems so. now why does that happen?
01:47:10 <Rubidium> michi_cc: probably because the northern part 'assumes' there will be a pylon at the other end of the junction
01:48:43 <Sacro> have topforest and then 2/3 subprojects as normal
01:49:30 <michi_cc> Rubidium: pylon position is supposed to be changed according to the masked wires
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02:07:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r15348 /trunk/src/elrail.cpp: -Fix (r15347): Preferred pylon position is dependant on the masked wires as well.
02:07:39 <michi_cc> night, complain tomorrow of that fix was still not enough :)
02:11:18 <SmatZ> tommorow as in "when you wake up"?
02:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> I mean something like the xbox360 chat pad, where you change the layout using the yellow or the green buttons <- if he comes on again, tell him that the swiss keyboard layout uses the caps lock key to switch between two different keyboard layouts
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02:58:19 <DaleStan> Rubidium: I did not. Thanks for pointing it out.
03:17:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r15349 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: no need to call a function when we know there is not going to be any change to the returned result
03:42:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r15350 /trunk/src/ (table/unmovable_land.h unmovable.h unmovable_cmd.cpp):
03:42:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Create a spec array to hold the data definitions of unmovables objects.
03:42:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Note that this is the very basic spec, it will be populated a bit more, later.
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08:02:11 <dihedral> Belugas you're a hero: src/table/unmovable_land.h:96: error: '_original_unmovable' was declared 'extern' and later 'static'
08:02:21 <dihedral> src/unmovable.h:24: error: previous declaration of '_original_unmovable'
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08:07:37 <Rubidium> that MSVC would allow such code
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08:11:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15351 /trunk/src/table/unmovable_land.h: -Fix (r15350): gcc compile failure
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09:09:23 <petern> why do rechargable batteries suck so much in digital cameras?
09:18:51 <dihedral> petern: whats the mAh of the battery?
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09:20:51 <petern> 1800... not that good but should last more than 15 minutes....
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09:31:20 <dihedral> petern, how old are the batteries, and are they NiCad or NiMH
09:33:56 <planetmaker> petern: if cameras require batteries instead of accumulators the difference is voltage: batteries have 1.5V as opposed to 1.2V of accumulators
09:34:08 <planetmaker> --> accumulators suck when used instead...
09:34:27 <planetmaker> well... rechargable batteries
09:35:24 <petern> any modern device, especially cameras, should be made with 1.2V in mind
09:36:14 <planetmaker> My year 2000 camera was still not build with that in mind...
09:37:08 <planetmaker> fortunately my newer one is :)
09:38:34 <Roest> hmm that might explain why my 2000 built camera eats rechargeables like nothing
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12:06:36 <Roujin> about those four strings that were missing "on/off".. I made another diff that changes those in english.txt and removes them in all the other languages, plus uses the situation for renaming STR_CONFIG_MODIFIED_ROAD_REBUILD to STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_MODIFIED_ROAD_REBUILD for consistency
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12:10:56 <petern> Why remove the old strings when they just need {ORANGE}{STRING} added?
12:12:30 <Roujin> uhm, to give the translators some work? seriously, i thought that was way to go after the discussion yesterday..
12:13:20 <Rubidium> petern: I'd reckon strings might need reworking due to the addition of the {ORANGE}{STRING}
12:13:22 <petern> doesn't seem very sensible
12:13:57 <petern> it's not like it's part of the grammar
12:15:44 <Roujin> well, I've got time now so I can make a new diff that changes the strings instead of removing them, if you prefer that... but should I keep this renaming in, or do you object?
12:15:56 <Roujin> STR_CONFIG_MODIFIED_ROAD_REBUILD to STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_MODIFIED_ROAD_REBUILD
12:16:31 <Rubidium> the renaming's fine I'd say
12:17:01 <planetmaker> which then needs renaming in every language :P
12:17:12 <petern> i'd say add {ORANGE}{STRING} to english and then let the translators deal with it
12:17:30 <petern> planetmaker: not hard...
12:17:42 <Rubidium> petern: then you end up with months of warnings when compiling
12:17:49 <petern> perl -pi -e 's/CONFIG_MODIFIED/CONFIG_PATCHES_MODIFIED/g' *
12:18:04 <Rubidium> that breaks alignment ;)
12:18:42 <petern> give the translators a couple of weeks, and remove any after then
12:18:55 <planetmaker> alignment thingies?
12:19:05 <petern> just be intelligent and add it based on how the others are done
12:19:11 <planetmaker> well... I translate usually using the webinterface :)
12:19:14 <Roujin> so you'd rather go with the warnings?
12:19:24 <planetmaker> Either it automatically aligns things then ... or poof.
12:19:35 <Roest> planetmaker your comment to #2601 makes no sense
12:19:59 <planetmaker> Roest: I might have mis-understood the intention of your patch
12:21:05 <planetmaker> what does it do then?
12:21:26 <Roest> vehicle price goes red when you cant afford it
12:22:40 <Roujin> petern: so you'd rather go with the warnings until the translators fix their strings, than changing all the non-english files?
12:23:29 <petern> that's just my opinion though
12:23:31 <planetmaker> Roest: thanks. Comment removed :)
12:24:12 <planetmaker> petern: that may take long(er) for some languages... IMO it looks bad. Then rather delete it.
12:28:09 * Rubidium wonders how long the warnings will stay
12:28:58 <petern> i'm not project leader, no need to do as i'd like :p
12:31:00 <Rubidium> hmm... totally forgot
12:31:02 *** Rubidium sets mode: +o Sacro
12:31:46 <melwil> hi, when using a dedicated server which is run on linux through a shell, how can I start a game with a set map size?
12:38:36 <planetmaker> melwil: or upload an accordingly modified openttd.cfg to your server prior to restarting a game.
12:42:05 <melwil> well, I couldn't find any such setting in the cfg file =/
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13:04:37 <dihedral> melwil, they are there, the settings i mean
13:05:13 <dihedral> and if they are not, run ./openttd -D -c openttd.cfg
13:05:28 <glm2006ITALY> is very good game OpenTTD
13:05:30 <dihedral> and quit again, then atleast you should have all the settings in the config file you are missing
13:06:55 <glm2006ITALY> but speed game is avalaible for off-line games?
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13:07:21 <dihedral> you mean fast forward?
13:07:39 <dihedral> the button right next to the pause button?
13:07:49 <dihedral> that is available for single player only, yes
13:08:11 <glm2006ITALY> game similar mode
13:08:35 <dihedral> i have no idea what you are trying to ask
13:08:45 <dihedral> but i am sure you will find an answer at wiki.openttd.org
13:08:54 <glm2006ITALY> there is a possibility of improving the artificial intelligence of the game?
13:09:09 <glm2006ITALY> automatic google traslate
13:09:23 <dihedral> try translator.live.com :-P
13:09:46 <Digitalfox> Congrats Sacro at being an OP =0
13:09:49 <glm2006ITALY> i use costedelsud.it/servizi/traduttore.asp
13:09:51 <dihedral> so - you want to modify the ai
13:10:00 <Yexo> glm2006ITALY: yes, try a nightly build instead of 0.6.3
13:10:11 <glm2006ITALY> good good good....
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13:10:23 <dihedral> Digitalfox, we're all gonna die......
13:10:37 <glm2006ITALY> please speak and write simple enghlis :)
13:10:39 <Yexo> openttd.org/download-trunk
13:11:14 <Digitalfox> dihedral was this posted before?
13:12:29 <dihedral> Yexo, very simple indeed
13:14:47 <dihedral> Digitalfox, they want money for their work?
13:14:55 <dihedral> and claim they donate it to openttd?
13:16:46 <Digitalfox> I'm going to try now on iphone
13:17:06 <dihedral> no - i was asking if that was _that_ company
13:17:25 <dihedral> i know there is one that claims any donations to them would be forwarded to orudge or something
13:17:49 <Digitalfox> it seems you just have to add the repository
13:19:32 <Digitalfox> 6.8 MB... Let's how it works
13:23:28 <Digitalfox> well it's build r15332
13:23:57 <Digitalfox> It brings graphics and sound
13:25:38 <Digitalfox> wow, I have to say this port is pretty awesome, the touch screen works pretty well
13:31:51 *** Rubidium sets mode: -o Sacro
13:32:37 <Rubidium> it's "free" and "brings graphics and sound" don't mix
13:33:37 <Rubidium> packaging it with the original sounds and graphics makes it pretty... uhm... illegal?
13:33:42 <glx> "Well it’s just the coolest game based off of Transport Tycoon Deluxe’s sourcecode!" <-- that's just wrong
13:33:44 <Rubidium> still, they should be providing the sources
13:33:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15352 /trunk/src/ (town.h town_cmd.cpp town_gui.cpp town_type.h): -Codechange: make the arguments passed around while founding a town a bit more readable
13:34:46 <NukeBuster> too bad, it's now spreading a version of ottd which includes graphics and sounds and infrigments copyright :(
13:34:57 <NukeBuster> where is his modified source by the way?
13:35:17 <dihedral> NukeBuster: simply mail them and ask for it
13:35:26 <Rubidium> dihedral: that's not enough
13:35:40 <dihedral> is it not upon request?
13:36:21 <Rubidium> dihedral: section 3 of COPYING
13:36:28 <Yexo> dihedral: Have you seen a written offer for the source on their site?
13:37:16 <NukeBuster> i don't see any...
13:37:31 <Rubidium> you may copy if: a) you have the source codes besides the binaries, b) you give people a written offer valid for at least 3 years, c) other offer information on how to obtain the sources
13:38:05 <Rubidium> c would mean he's providing a diff
13:38:22 <Yexo> no, 3) is only valid if you received your binary via b)
13:38:31 <melwil> how would I go about setting new grf settings if I can't use the GUI?
13:38:45 <dihedral> accompany could mean it's in the package you download
13:39:00 <Yexo> melwil: set them in the config file
13:39:02 <Sacro> Yeah, my housemate has the iPhone version, he showed me it on the walk to uni
13:39:03 <NukeBuster> it's an iphone app...
13:39:22 <melwil> Yexo: any page that shows how the syntax is for that?
13:39:46 <Yexo> just path/to/newgrf.grf = param1 param2
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13:39:59 <Yexo> after the '=' just add the parameters as you would do in the gui
13:40:16 <melwil> ah, I'll look into it then, thanks =)
13:40:33 <Sacro> Digitalfox: i'm an op now?
13:40:57 <Yexo> Sacro: you was for a few hours
13:41:54 <Yexo> [13:30] * Rubidium geeft kanaal-operator status aan Sacro
13:42:04 <Yexo> [14:31] * Rubidium verwijdert kanaal-operator status van Sacro
13:42:05 <Sacro> Rubidium: why was i opped for an hour?
13:42:43 <dihedral> Sacro, read lines just before you got opped
13:43:11 <Sacro> I think i'd make a good channel op
13:43:17 <Sacro> been here a long time now :p
13:43:26 <Sacro> Ic ould replace Bjarni, that'd be funny and ironic
13:43:28 <NukeBuster> isn't there something in the gpl that states that you must actively defend your licence?
13:43:55 <SmatZ> Sacro: you could replace yorick well
13:44:01 <Yexo> NukeBuster: not as far as I know
13:44:06 * welshdragon wants to replace somebody
13:44:24 * Yexo gives all the work someone should to do welshdragon :p
13:44:56 <welshdragon> hmm, i could finish the welsh translation
13:45:33 <Rubidium> NukeBuster: that's an old version you're talking about
13:45:50 <Sacro> NukeBuster: don't think so
13:47:02 <dihedral> Sacro, then fix some os x stuff please
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13:47:42 <Rubidium> NukeBuster: 6.8 MB for the file is ~3 MB more than the 'official' binaries
13:47:45 <Sacro> dihedral: when I can get it to buld then i will
13:48:11 * Sacro would replace Bjarni as I run OSX, I'm well known and much hated :D
13:49:44 <Rubidium> dihedral: 10.4.? (or even 10.3.?), Sacro: 10.5.?
13:50:02 <Sacro> this AI lecture is sucky
13:50:04 <welshdragon> dihedral: upgrade!
13:50:53 <dihedral> oh wait.... 10.4.11 is out right?
13:51:13 <glx> Rubidium: indeed TTD files are in the .deb
13:51:16 <dihedral> yeah - i have 10.4.11 :-P
13:51:40 <Rubidium> the windows ones to be precise
13:52:38 <welshdragon> Sacro: don't you finish your lecture soon?
13:52:50 <Sacro> Rubidium: yes, my huosemate had to add none himself
13:52:53 <Sacro> welshdragon: oh god i hope so
13:52:58 <Sacro> he's ranting about asians or something
13:53:18 <welshdragon> Sacro: can i meet you on Bev Road>
13:54:06 <welshdragon> Sacro: outside Benedict's then?
13:54:44 <Sacro> welshdragon: that's a long walk :(
13:54:54 <Sacro> yeah, could go to benedicts
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13:55:34 <welshdragon> Sacro: fine by mw
13:56:14 <Sacro> yeah, iconv_open errors on linking
13:57:06 <Sacro> "_iconv_open", referenced from:
13:57:18 <planetmaker> [14:48] <Sacro> I get fontcache issues <-- what kind of issues?
13:57:31 <welshdragon> Sacro: i;ll give you another 20 minutes
13:58:04 <Sacro> might as well just go home
13:58:28 <welshdragon> Sacro: it only takes 10 minutes to get from uni to benedicts
13:58:31 <Sacro> planetmaker: Undefined symbols:
13:58:31 <Sacro> "_iconv_open", referenced from:
13:58:31 <Sacro> FS2OTTD(char const*)in unix.o
13:58:31 <Sacro> OTTD2FS(char const*)in unix.o
13:58:31 <Sacro> "_iconv", referenced from:
13:58:33 <Sacro> convert_tofrom_fs(void*, char const*)in unix.o
13:58:36 <Sacro> convert_tofrom_fs(void*, char const*)in unix.o
13:58:57 <planetmaker> oh? interesting... you're on leopard, right...?
13:59:02 <welshdragon> 5 if you are quick
14:00:17 <Sacro> ah, libiconv is in macports
14:00:31 <Sacro> can't install it whilst at Uni :(
14:00:38 * Sacro will try when he gets home
14:01:09 <planetmaker> those are necessary, indeed.
14:01:38 <planetmaker> I thought something similar like when I select hebrew as language. :P A sea of questionmarks right ahead in that case :P
14:02:08 <Sacro> well the wiki needs updating
14:02:26 <welshdragon> Sacro: see you soon then
14:11:06 <glx> planetmaker: question marks is because there's no font autoselect ;)
14:11:37 <glx> and of course you also need libicu
14:11:38 <planetmaker> ... just got the API references. With a bit of luck, I'll have time tomorrow in the train to have alook
14:12:15 <planetmaker> ... hm... what's "libicu" - another library?
14:12:52 <planetmaker> then I should get those reference, too :)
14:19:16 <petern> debian calls git a 'content addressable filesystem' ... whatever happened to 'version control system'?
14:19:22 <petern> Description: content addressable filesystem This is a stupid (but extremely fast) directory content manager. It doesn't do a whole lot, but what it 'does' do is track directory contents efficiently.
14:23:13 <blathijs> petern: I get Description: fast, scalable, distributed revision control system
14:23:20 <blathijs> petern: On the git-core package
14:23:44 <melwil> wrong player-id in DoCommand <-- what does that mean?
14:24:03 <Belugas> dihedral, what shold i do about your attitude? put you on ignore? kick you? laugh about your impatience? Critisize you about your lack of understanding? or just do nothing?
14:24:12 <Belugas> salut planetmaker. alors, ca boume?
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14:24:39 <dihedral> Belugas, have you no sense of humor?
14:25:08 <dihedral> at least someone picked up on it!
14:25:33 <Yexo> melwil: how did you get that message?
14:25:34 <planetmaker> hm... I think I understand your words, Belugas - but they don't make sense to me :P
14:25:53 <melwil> I don't know.. if I did, I would have changed it..
14:26:05 <planetmaker> melwil: usually if you erronously try to execute something as a different player. I shouldn't happen in unpatched versions.
14:26:33 <dihedral> you got that message, or someone connected to your server?
14:26:46 <melwil> someone connected to my server
14:26:53 <melwil> but I'm connected to the same server
14:27:02 <Yexo> then that other person tried to cheat
14:27:02 <melwil> and he gets it instantly when joining
14:27:13 <dihedral> either they connected from SA (i have seen that happen a few times with people connecting from SA)
14:27:13 <melwil> I can assure you he is not trying to cheat
14:27:26 <dihedral> or someone on purpose tried to act as a different company
14:27:36 <Belugas> planetmaker, it's a salute and wondering if it's all fine with you :)
14:27:42 <melwil> well, he's from norway, in the same room as me =P
14:27:51 <Belugas> dihedral, well.. not really that early in the mornuing, no
14:28:15 <dihedral> Belugas, read it in a few hours again :-P
14:28:23 <planetmaker> Belugas: :) thx for asking - yeah, doing pretty well :) I hope you, too :) - and I guess my french is worse than I hope(d) :P
14:32:09 <melwil> could this be caused by the fact that he jsut copied the whole install folder from another person?
14:33:25 <melwil> well, it helped him to reinstall it anyway
14:33:52 <dihedral> it's sending an action as a company other than the server expects to receive from that client
14:36:57 <dihedral> yes - should actually not happen
14:40:20 <SmatZ> STR_SCENARIO_EDITOR_CITY_TOOLTIP :{BLACK}Cities grow faster than regular towns{}Depending on settings, they are bigger when found
14:40:28 <SmatZ> any native English speaker?
14:42:21 <Rubidium> planetmaker/dihedral: why no? Maybe the person he copied it from played a patched binary
14:44:14 <Rubidium> but then you need to do it *everywhere*
14:44:30 <Rubidium> making buttons red because you can't build rail
14:44:49 <Rubidium> or making the rail thingy red because you don't have enough money
14:46:27 <planetmaker> the latter is a bad idea as that's reserved for removing...
14:48:17 <Roest> i wouldn't say you need to do it for everything, for vehicles i find it useful because they tend to cost alot and especially in the beginning i sometimes find myself waiting for money to buy the next engine or plane
14:49:27 <Yexo> Roest: what about funding industries and town actions?
14:52:10 <Roest> ok good point, so for consistency it should be everywhere where a cost string is drawn
14:53:22 <Belugas> this is why i mentionned the "concept" word, as ... the idea is interesting
14:53:39 <Belugas> not that the patch as-is is
14:54:02 <Belugas> on the other hand, guiding the user for every action he'll have to do is kind of a bore
14:55:05 <Roest> giving visual clues isn't really guiding through every step
14:55:52 <SmatZ> petern: :{BLACK}Cities grow faster than regular towns{}Depending on settings, they are bigger when found <- is that gramatically fine?
15:02:10 <Belugas> Roest, to some extend, it does, much like the red square of tile selection. the more cues given, the more fingers been hold on the hand
15:02:15 <Belugas> or something like that :S
15:02:53 <Belugas> SmatZ, i fail to understand the last part...
15:03:06 <Belugas> or rather the link to the first part
15:04:56 <SmatZ> Belugas: there's no link between it :)
15:05:49 <dihedral> Rubidium, if it were a modified copy, and both clients do the same thing, and only one gets that error - dont you think that sounds a wee bit odd?
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15:07:07 <Rubidium> dihedral: "copied from another person" != "copied from me"
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15:28:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15353 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt town_gui.cpp): -Feature(tte): make it possible to have cities of various sizes
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15:58:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15354 /trunk/src/ (order_cmd.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Fix (r14803): first shared of a vehicle could be NULL making it impossible to (share-)clone the vehicle.
15:59:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15355 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_vehiclelist.cpp: -Codechange: simplify some stuff now ->FirstShared returns non-NULL again.
15:59:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15356 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make PlaceProc_Town and some global variables a static function/variables of the scenedit window
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16:15:09 <OsteHovel^EEE> anyone here has any knowledge about compilling GCC that targets Linux on Cygwin?
16:37:36 <planetmaker> [15:55] <SmatZ> petern: :{BLACK}Cities grow faster than regular towns{}Depending on settings, they are bigger when found <- is that gramatically fine? <--- no.
16:38:08 <petern> maybe they were hidden
16:38:11 <planetmaker> found-founded-founded as opposed to find-found-found
16:43:29 <planetmaker> sorry, SmatZ, didn't see that before... :)
16:49:02 <SmatZ> planetmaker: better than if you saw it and didn't reply ;) it can still be fixed
16:51:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15357 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt town_gui.cpp): -Codechange: unify the way buttons are updated in the 'found town' window
16:55:05 <planetmaker> hehe :) well hidden typo fix :)
16:55:43 <SmatZ> I wonder if it is gramatically correct now
16:56:22 <planetmaker> Well. Grammar is ok, I think.
16:56:29 <planetmaker> But I'm no native speaker :)
16:57:14 <Rubidium> but then, who speaks native?
16:57:30 <SmatZ> there are some :) I asked them, highlihted them, but didn't receive any reply
16:57:44 <planetmaker> ^^ universal language world wide ;)
17:05:47 <kosher> Hello, can I ask a newby question? I have looked over the web, forums and wiki but found no answer...
17:06:29 <Vikthor> Don't ask if you can ask and ask straight away
17:07:05 <kosher> How to access the 'local authority window'? The place where I am supposed to advertise/bribe etc.?
17:07:19 <frosch123> click on the town name
17:07:20 <Vikthor> click on the town name
17:08:17 <kosher> thanx guys for quick help
17:19:44 <Vikthor> SmatZs reactions are somewhat slow :p
17:20:26 <Yexo> says Vikthor after 9 minutes...
17:23:18 <Belugas> SmatZ works a lot and is not always staring at the IRC screen ;)
17:24:42 * planetmaker hugs workoholic SmatZ
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17:27:51 * SmatZ hugs dihedral and planetmaker
17:28:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15358 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIEventVehicleCrashed::GetCrashReason()
17:33:10 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
17:39:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15359 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIEventVehicleCrashed::CRASH_RV_UFO, AIEventDisasterZeppelinerCrashed and AIEventDisasterZeppelinerCleared as aliens accepted NoAIs as competing life-form.
17:44:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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17:48:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15360 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: Flooding vehicles did not trigger an AI event.
17:50:18 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
17:56:19 <SmatZ> :) maybe you can change "Layout of expenses window" to lowercase l
18:00:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15361 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.cpp settings_type.h): -Cleanup: minor comment style fixes (planetmaker)
18:00:46 <planetmaker> he :) That's quick. TY, Smatz :)
18:01:23 <planetmaker> the random "stumbled upon oddities" of yesterday :)
18:04:35 *** Yeggs-away is now known as Yeggstry
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18:13:56 <TrueBrain> lol @ frosch123: "as aliens accepted NoAIs as competing life-form. "
18:14:06 <TrueBrain> frosch123: minor typo in doxygen: remvoed
18:17:22 <Wolf01> gaah, I'm stressed, too much work@work this month
18:17:23 <TrueBrain> how are you this day? :)
18:17:45 * dihedral waves hello to TrueBrain
18:18:13 <Yexo> I'm fine, everything is ok around here. How are you?
18:19:15 <TrueBrain> dihedral: and here you do talk to me? Pfff :p
18:19:32 <TrueBrain> doing fine too, tnx :)
18:20:30 <TrueBrain> well .. getting a bit annoyed by LeaseWeb
18:20:56 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: is the web going to die today again at 20:03 ?
18:21:01 <TrueBrain> they requested root access for a valid reason, so I asked them to give a ssh public key ... took quiet a while before someone understood what we meant ... :p
18:21:01 <orudge> What's LeaseWeb been doing? :/
18:21:05 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: lets hope not ...
18:21:31 * |Japa| wishes he could us multiple gfx sets for signals
18:21:34 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: last 2 days we have had tons of link up/downs ...
18:21:45 <TrueBrain> might be VirtualBox ... or LeaseWeb ... hard to trace
18:22:03 <TrueBrain> orudge: tnx again for the dns thingy, it works nicely :)
18:22:31 <TrueBrain> I dunno if anyone has an other bright idea what might cause a eth to give a link-down message ...
18:22:42 <TrueBrain> to me it reads: switch is giving up, and is rebooting :p
18:24:05 <TrueBrain> I wish I knew other IPs which were on the same switch ... :p
18:25:20 <dihedral> TrueBrain, query with snmp, use the word 'public' :-D
18:26:02 <TrueBrain> and that indeed shows me the other links of the switch ... sigh :p
18:26:32 <TrueBrain> I might strongly hope the switch is not bind on a public IP ...
18:26:35 <dihedral> just need to know the correct MIBs
18:29:22 <TrueBrain> but sniffing arp requests is a valid method :) hehe :)
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18:39:45 <TrueBrain> General Notice: todays nightly will be delayed with 15 minutes
18:40:12 <FauxFaux> Delayed by 15 minutes.
18:40:30 <TrueBrain> @kick FauxFaux oh please ...
18:40:30 *** FauxFaux was kicked by DorpsGek (oh please ...)
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18:41:13 <FauxFaux> You can't interrupt International Pedantry Hour!
18:43:00 <|Japa|> OTTD is officialy the only game I know that provides a 64bit version
18:43:18 <TrueBrain> |Japa|: I guess that says most about your knowledge of games :p
18:43:18 <glx> TrueBrain: is the 15min delay required for some tests ?
18:43:37 <TrueBrain> glx: we want to make absolutely sure we are not the reason for our interface interuptions
18:44:00 <TrueBrain> as the nightlies boot up VMs, which in theory could be messing with interfaces .. well .. I just want to make 100% sure :)
18:44:10 <glx> TrueBrain: so if it's down 15min later than yesterday it's 'our' fault :)
18:44:15 <FauxFaux> Uh.. I thought it was FEAR, maybe not. One of those Modern Shooty Games.
18:44:35 <TrueBrain> and than I blame Rubidium for updating the Windows VM ;) :p
18:45:05 <TrueBrain> |Japa|: but you are right, there aren't many
18:45:28 <|Japa|> my knowledge of games onnly goes as far as the stuff borrowed from friends, or downloads that are under 20mb
18:45:47 <TrueBrain> today a professor told me that 64bit wasn't kicking in really, because most OSes didn't support it correctly .. then I realised, it is only Windows who doesn't do it properly :p
18:46:16 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I know nothing of OSX :p
18:46:16 <glx> well windows does it (if you buy the right version)
18:46:19 <TrueBrain> but I guess you might be right
18:46:21 <FauxFaux> I can't believe they're not dropping x32 for seven. :(
18:46:30 <TrueBrain> glx: yeah .. exactly the problem :)
18:46:35 <TrueBrain> I wanted to get 64bit Vista with my new computer
18:46:40 <TrueBrain> I couldn't! I had to pay extra! :s
18:46:58 <|Japa|> well, for me D2 works in 7x86, but not 7x64
18:47:58 <FauxFaux> 32-bit emulation and 64-bit support are entirely different things. :p
18:49:20 <glx> I can run 64bits app on my 32bits windows XP :)
18:49:43 <|Japa|> the question remains, does OTTD significantly take advantage of x64?
18:49:48 <TrueBrain> glx: in a VM, I hope? :p
18:50:01 <|Japa|> or would you need a hugeass map for that?
18:50:16 <TrueBrain> |Japa|: depends no your definition of 'significant'
18:50:53 <glx> probably faster 64bits operations
18:51:22 <glx> but I think that's all :)
18:51:32 <|Japa|> does OTTD use cideo hardware at all?
18:51:41 <SmatZ> OTTD is slower on my amd64 when compiled as 64bit than when compiled as 32bit
18:52:05 <TrueBrain> |Japa|: video memory is not used, so I guess that is a no ;)
18:52:11 <SmatZ> |Japa|: when you run as dedicated, then not
18:52:35 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: it's used as a framebuffer (indirectly) - but I think directly with Allegro driver ;)
18:53:29 <|Japa|> so a gbetter card would not improve 32bpp performance then
18:53:31 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: so I should have said: the video memory is not used to store sprites :p
18:53:59 <TrueBrain> haha, it is not a 3d game my friend :)
18:54:15 <SmatZ> there is a OpenGL blitter somewhere :)
18:55:06 <TrueBrain> 5 minutes till 2000 ...
18:55:25 <glx> and? it will start at 2015
18:55:46 <TrueBrain> glx: lets hope not :)
18:56:12 <glx> else you failed to delay it ;)
18:56:25 <Belugas> SmatZ, look under petern's desk, you'll find it ^_^
18:56:25 <|Japa|> videocards also acellerate 2d rendering
18:56:34 <TrueBrain> glx: yeah .. but I meant something else ;)
18:56:45 <TrueBrain> |Japa|: accelerate is not really the word :p
18:56:52 <Belugas> good for 2d render, |Japa|. we do not render anythung
18:56:59 <Belugas> nor surface nor nothing
18:57:22 <TrueBrain> |Japa|: but one might consider using the video memory, for quicker drawing ... just .. OpenTTD's method of company-colours fucks that up a tiny bit ;)
18:57:36 <glx> Belugas: we "render" sprites on the screen ;)
18:57:54 <petern> on what system is graphics the bottleneck anyway?
18:58:14 <|Japa|> when using 32bbp, it seems to be
18:58:17 <TrueBrain> petern: I doubt one could find one :)
18:58:28 <Belugas> true, glx, but i think it is not exactly like generating a picture out of something
18:58:37 <glx> |Japa|: then don't use 32bpp-anim
18:59:08 <glx> palette animation on 32bpp is not the best thing to do ;)
18:59:34 <TrueBrain> those 2 were never meant to work together, no :p
18:59:38 <petern> slightly differently mind you :)
18:59:44 <|Japa|> I'lll jjust stick to 8bit for now
18:59:58 <petern> yeah, compile for 6502 :D
18:59:59 <glx> you can use 32bpp-optimized
18:59:59 <|Japa|> at least untill there's a cmplete 32bit set
19:00:08 <TrueBrain> |Japa|: without 32bpp replacement graphics, using 32bpp is useless anyway
19:00:32 <|Japa|> some of the gfx are there, but not most
19:01:10 <glx> most are for extra zoom (and they are not compatible with clean openttd)
19:01:23 <Belugas> mmh... 32bpp... there is someone who has not yet answered my PM... nor did he read it...
19:02:50 <|Japa|> I'd go for an 8bb extra zoom, personally
19:03:09 <|Japa|> it's wonderfull on a big screen that a little far away
19:03:11 <TrueBrain> that is very ugly :)
19:03:12 <petern> i'd got for what Belugas goes for :D
19:04:03 <petern> Wolf01: already fixed a long time ago
19:04:23 <TrueBrain> 20:04, still perfectly fine connection ...
19:04:42 <petern> that scenario has been *years* in the making
19:04:59 <petern> the guy could go over it and just dynamite those bits. they'll return to normal.
19:05:06 <Belugas> you do petern? damned... going to cancel my request than
19:05:13 <Belugas> CAN I HAVE IT TOO????
19:05:26 <Belugas> [14:04] <@petern> i'd got for what Belugas goes for :D
19:05:28 <petern> no, i mean go, not got
19:09:15 <TrueBrain> k ... going to start the nightly in 50 seconds .. I hate waiting :)
19:10:35 <TrueBrain> VMs are booting ...
19:10:40 <TrueBrain> tick tack tick tack ..
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19:13:16 <TrueBrain> 3 minutes in ... besides a very high load and 3 cores going crazy, nothing weird going on ...
19:14:30 <frosch123> TrueBrain: mwhahaha
19:14:30 <Noldo> which weird are you hoping for?
19:14:51 <TrueBrain> Noldo: exactly that was is happening :p
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19:50:23 <planetmaker> welcome back, DorpsGek :D
19:52:56 <dihedral> Sacro, that does not get you ops back!
19:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you want to tell us something with that, Sacro?
19:53:19 <dihedral> hey - reminds me of my cousin
19:53:31 <SmatZ> dihedral: he/she changed sex?
19:53:45 <dihedral> SmatZ, is in the process of
19:53:54 <dihedral> pretty sad sod if you ask me
19:54:12 <SmatZ> I didn't expect you actually say "yes"!
19:54:37 <SmatZ> Sacro: he/she's nice :)
19:54:54 <dihedral> SmatZ, well, swallowed some hormone pills (made in china) hehe - stupid kid
19:54:59 <SmatZ> hmm you date a girl, then you find out she was born as a boy... do you feel gay then?
19:55:05 <dihedral> and had a facial done in Holland
19:55:09 <SmatZ> dihedral: intentionaly?
19:55:32 <dihedral> yeah, he would not get those made in the uk because the doc refused :-D
19:55:35 <SmatZ> dihedral: how many people change sex? I thought it happens rarely (like < 10 people / world / year)
19:55:55 <dihedral> SmatZ, how should i know?
19:56:07 <dihedral> it's more than enough to have a cousin doing that rubbish
19:56:42 <dihedral> he's got a PhD too, so he's not like some real idiot
19:57:40 <SmatZ> well if he was gay... then maybe this will make his life happier
19:57:42 <dihedral> [20:55] <SmatZ> hmm you date a girl, then you find out she was born as a boy... do you feel gay then? <- you tell by the adams apple
19:59:21 <Belugas> it's the soul that counts, not the body
19:59:34 <Belugas> whatever is dangling or not :)
20:00:37 <dihedral> my soul counts on me keeping this body :-P
20:01:23 <petern> so is your cousin mtf or ftm?
20:01:45 <dihedral> with some bits of f now and some bits of m :-D
20:02:04 <dihedral> i have not seen him for like a few years
20:02:21 <dihedral> i dont even know what name he goes by, something along the lines of melissa or melinda
20:02:46 <dihedral> i know my cousin as a guy :-P
20:02:50 <petern> you seem to be missing the point some what
20:03:43 <dihedral> so technically speaking 50% correct and 50% wrong, whatever you chose :-P
20:03:45 <petern> one would presume, being ftm, they would refer to themself as she
20:04:26 <dihedral> you got me confuddled there
20:05:04 <dihedral> he's been running around dressed like a girl for a few years
20:05:28 <petern> well yes, she would, that's what girls do
20:05:48 <dihedral> gnah - i pitty the fool :-P
20:07:51 <dihedral> look at that - my apple crumble decided to come out of the oven
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20:11:42 <dihedral> "name a yellow fruit" .... "orange" <- LOL
20:14:57 <petern> bah, why can't image editors leave png text along? :)
20:16:03 <dihedral> "name a type of bean" - "lesbian"
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20:34:49 <TrueBrain> still no cargodest sync .. too bad :)
20:36:08 <TrueBrain> who has something to compile for me?
20:36:12 <TrueBrain> I want to know if my fix fixes the problem :p
20:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> make a sync yourself :p
20:38:11 <Wolf01> TrueBrain, I have sloped stations if you want
20:38:31 <TrueBrain> I was more thinking in the lines of something on either OpenTTD hg, git or svn
20:39:17 <TrueBrain> lets compile petern's railtypes :p
20:40:45 <TrueBrain> expect openttd.org downtime ..
20:42:02 <Wolf01> wait until I download the nightly
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20:42:57 <Wolf01> ok, you can blow up what you want, I have my nightly to play with now ;)
20:47:30 <TrueBrain> lucky enough the compile failed ... lol :)
20:48:44 <TrueBrain> hg and '3rdparty' fails :p
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20:52:25 <Yexo> it was a problem with my browser font size, making one line not show up
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20:58:57 <TrueBrain> I am a bit out of ideas what the problem might be
20:59:27 <TrueBrain> maybe I should run a long tcpdump, see what the VMs try to do on the network or something ..
21:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Question: how difficult would it be to replace the current "Waypoint" concept by stations that get automatically assigned "go via" orders?
21:03:38 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you should rather think about distant-join waypoints
21:04:17 <petern> problem with using stations as waypoints is what happens when you mix them?
21:04:21 <planetmaker> frosch123: might it then not be an idea to define a base class and make stations and waypoints both derivatives of that?
21:04:25 <Yexo> frosch123: that doesn't make sense as long as you can't join them at all
21:04:48 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: the whole station gets a flag "treat this station as waypoint"
21:05:09 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: and next step is to mark docks as buoy
21:05:09 <Eddi|zuHause> no matter which graphics it actually uses
21:05:20 <frosch123> and then name it ttdp
21:06:11 <frosch123> and then make depots a subclass of stations, so you can add orders to multiple equally ranked depots
21:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the only difference would be a) the default order when using "go to station", and b) the sign not showing up when waypoint signs are disabled
21:07:17 <petern> trains can stop at via station orders and turn around
21:07:25 <petern> they can't at waypoints
21:07:51 <Yexo> petern: can they if the station is a roro station? (ie not terminus)
21:07:54 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: waypoints, depots and buoys work quite similiar, and joining would make sense for all of them. ok, buoys currently not
21:08:20 <petern> Yexo: if the signals allow it...
21:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: i have never seen a train with a "go via" order reverse
21:08:46 <frosch123> also multiple docks per stations come to mind
21:09:49 <Eddi|zuHause> how can a train reverse when it does not stop?
21:10:10 <planetmaker> hehe... Train1: go via outer-sea-bouy #2 to grandcentral ;)
21:10:11 <Eddi|zuHause> how can a train check if it wants to reverse at a station before having stopped at a station?
21:10:40 <planetmaker> I've never tested what happens, if a train goes via a terminus station
21:12:44 <thingwath> konqueror doesn't think it's necessary to replace ' ' with url escapes...
21:14:03 <SmoovTruck> in one of the last few nightlies, I noticed the graphics changed some on the opening screen... and a few buildings and rolling stock graphics, are just black boxes instead... am I missing a new file or something?
21:14:29 <Yexo> SmoovTruck: you've downloaded opengfx
21:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> SmoovTruck: you downloaded opengfx
21:15:00 <SmoovTruck> I take it, that isn't complete yet?
21:15:01 <frosch123> SmoovTruck: that's the penalty for downloading everything from bananas
21:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: why do they not have buffer stops there?
21:15:33 <SmoovTruck> just trying to be current with the auto-updater :P
21:15:55 <Yexo> SmoovTruck: this has nothing to do with the auto-updater
21:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> SmoovTruck: yes, it is not complete. you can disable opengfx in the config file
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21:16:31 <SmoovTruck> no need to disable it... I can live with the boxes... just wanted to make sure it was something expected at this point
21:16:32 <thingwath> Eddi|zuHause: Should they?
21:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: at the end of a line? yes, i think they should.
21:17:19 <SmoovTruck> replace "auto-updater" with "check online content" menu...
21:17:45 <SmoovTruck> anyways, no problem... it is known, no need to dink around about it anymore. :)
21:19:03 <petern> i misread that as 'no need to drink any more' :o
21:19:57 <SmoovTruck> well, it could have been possible I was seeing it cuz I wasn't drunk enuf... I just never had OpenTTD need that particular solution before. :D
21:21:22 <thingwath> Eddi|zuHause: if I only knew, maybe just nobody cares :)
21:33:01 <petern> damn, the cymbals on this mp3 suck :(
21:51:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15362 /trunk/src/ (42 files in 2 dirs): -Change: make a string name more consistent.
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22:06:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15363 /trunk/src/lang/ (43 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#2600]: inconsistency w.r.t. On/Off text for settings.
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22:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i smell something big coming
22:15:51 <Rubidium> nah, I just want to be prepared when rortom comes gloating 'bout ror
22:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause> why is "more engines" separate from "more everything else"?
22:16:54 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:18:43 <planetmaker> Rubidium: what about different road layouts for towns?
22:19:29 <Rubidium> was already possible
22:21:48 <petern> how do i dump back to the intro screen?
22:22:37 <petern> i want to reinit the intro screen
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22:25:13 <petern> but i'm getting grfconfig problems
22:25:24 <lanaiya> Hi, is there a option that industies don't shut down??
22:25:36 <Eddi|zuHause> - Feature: Show what cargos a station could be supplied with (r12596) <-- was it ever changed that this info is also shown in the station window, not only when building a station?
22:26:36 <lanaiya> :/ hmm that suxx i'm in jear 2040 and nearly all industries are closed
22:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you can build some manually
22:27:40 <lanaiya> jeah thats pretty expensive ^^
22:28:03 <Yexo> then you should've provided better service so they don't close down
22:29:28 <lanaiya> huh? they close down anyway even if they are at 80% capacity
22:31:28 <planetmaker> lanaiya: they usually don't. except oil wells. Or if you use some newgrf which do that (dunno which)
22:37:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15364 /trunk/docs/openttd.6: -Update: the man page
22:38:50 <SmatZ> petern: are you woking on the ability to switch base graphics set in-game?
22:39:16 <petern> while the program is running
22:39:20 <petern> not actually in a game
22:39:25 <petern> cos that would mess things up
22:39:50 <petern> but apparently it messes up anyway :/
22:40:17 <SmatZ> restart doesn't matter... but people downloading opengfx and then complaining about black boxes are really not wanted
22:45:12 <Eddi|zuHause> can't there just be a confirmation box "this setting only takes effect after restarting"?
22:45:33 <petern> hmm, still doesn't work :/
22:49:53 <petern> no function calling, just set _switch_mode
22:53:36 <petern> this is the problem of C|S
22:58:43 <lanaiya> any idea how drawing trees on a tile could switched off. i looked in the code and got no easy idea to do that without changing something in all tree classes.
22:59:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15365 /trunk/src/core/string_compare_type.hpp: -Fix (r15324): svn properties were lost in 'svn move'
22:59:39 <SmatZ> lanaiya: Ctrl+X - make trees invisible? (for trunk)
22:59:52 <SmatZ> in 0.6.3 there is a patch option...
23:00:00 *** goodger has joined #openttd
23:00:33 <lanaiya> hmm ok then i have to search for that.
23:00:44 * SmatZ wonders what "all tree classes" might be
23:02:04 <SmatZ> lanaiya: are you sure you are talking in the correct channel?
23:02:29 <lanaiya> why? what other channel is there?
23:02:58 <lanaiya> "You can use the channel for questions, problems, development or general discussion"
23:07:20 <petern> i suppose if _ini_graphics_set was saved then specifying -I would be 'permanent'...
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23:07:30 <lanaiya> Or what do you mean Smatz
23:07:50 <SmatZ> lanaiya: what's wrong about that "Ctrl+X" solution?
23:09:01 <lanaiya> well i dont look for an option to shut them off all the time. i build in a new zoom lvl in the normal vieport. and its kinda laggy. so i want to shut off all non essentials aka all subpixel items including trees for that zoom lvl
23:09:38 <Rubidium> it has SLF_CONFIG_NO set, so the setting is never actually stored to the config file
23:10:35 <Rubidium> which makes saving it into the config kinda tricky
23:10:36 <petern> i thought you were going to add something i didn't know then :p
23:10:47 <petern> that is of course what i was talking about
23:11:13 <SmatZ> lanaiya: DrawTile_Trees - have a look at parts that aren't executed when trees are invisible
23:11:57 <Rubidium> isn't at 1/16+ zoom everything subpixel except the tiles graphics?
23:13:34 <petern> did you ever get that working satisfactorily?
23:13:47 <SmatZ> :) it was actually working without artifacts... but it was a hack in 8bpp-optimised blitter
23:14:07 <lanaiya> jeah thats kinda nice ^^
23:14:44 <petern> no extra 'high res' graphics :p
23:17:23 <lanaiya> well thats more elegant then my solution but a bit a bit 2 many zoom steps for my taste ;)
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