IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-02-03
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00:48:18 <Eddi|zuHause> noted, but i'm too tired now
00:48:58 <michi_cc> well, anybody else still here can have a look as well of course :)
00:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause> not "advanced" "advance"
00:49:03 <michi_cc> advance, not advanced
00:49:29 <Eddi|zuHause> means they show the state of the next signal, not of this signal
00:51:11 <michi_cc> very much a hack, but you can now have signal overruns
00:51:26 <Rubidium> oh... yellow signals?
00:52:13 <Rubidium> something to test when I've splut the leak
00:52:51 <michi_cc> so openttdcoop can now have pbs priority thingies :)
00:56:07 <michi_cc> note to somebody™: that adv_signals.grf needs semaphore graphics and the electric signals could probably do with some love as well
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04:09:52 <doc> is it possible to increase the number of bays loading trains at the one time
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09:01:52 <dihedral> how are you Celestar
09:02:51 <Celestar> my XP installation is progressing :P
09:03:29 <Celestar> two things still missing: bluetooth and activation
09:04:26 <dihedral> i had some fun bashing a forum user yesterday evening :-P
09:05:34 <Celestar> XP has been detecting new hardware devices for the past 20 minutes
09:05:45 * Celestar looks at his notebook "I wonder where all that hardware actually IS"
09:08:09 <dihedral> talking of IS ... the project stalled
09:08:44 <dihedral> Infrastructure Sharing?
09:08:55 <dihedral> DaleStan is great: "Put a sock in it until you know the difference."
09:09:06 <Celestar> some games are funny too. "Game requirement not met: Recommended Video Card: ATI Radeon 9200 or better. Found: ATI Radeon 3450"
09:09:19 <Celestar> possibly just doing a numerical comparison between model numbers is NOT helpful
09:10:26 <Celestar> and Securom (some anti-piracy idiocy) fails to detect a (valid) CD when the driver is in silent/powersave mode.
09:10:27 <petern> damn, this 22" lcd is so nice after my 17" crt...
09:11:09 <petern> securom works on timings, somehow, so silent might upset it
09:11:38 <petern> you'd think that a million different variantions of drive would upset it too though, mind you
09:11:54 <Celestar> yes, which causes me to download nocd cracks for all the games I legally _own_
09:27:30 <blathijs> Celestar: I wonder if doing that is illegal as well
09:27:48 <blathijs> Under DMCA it probably is...
09:28:07 <dihedral> in germany you are allowed to use cd cracks as long as you own the original cd
09:28:24 <dihedral> so Celestar is actually quite fine there :-P
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09:33:12 <planetmaker> dihedral: actually I'm not quite sure about that anymore... you must not circumvent copy protections... which noCD patches might fall under...
09:34:03 <planetmaker> But then... these kind of customer-are-all-bad-and-only-use-is-giving-us-money-for-free - attitude is bad, so...
09:35:32 <planetmaker> and I like your reply to this mega annoying clan guy ;)
09:38:12 <petern> dihedral, make that for openttd ;D
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09:39:43 <dihedral> but i have never done one grf and now you want me to do a few thousand?
09:39:56 <dihedral> that sounds a wee mean to me petern
09:41:36 <petern> it's only "a few" sprites :o
09:41:53 <dihedral> you promise to code it?
09:42:06 <dihedral> so i get you the graphics and you code it!
09:43:19 <petern> graphics in the right size, yeah
09:43:49 <petern> 32bpp replacements don't need coding
09:44:16 <dihedral> i was gonna post something on the forums :-P
09:44:39 <petern> be a project manager and get others to do the drawing ;)
09:48:13 <dihedral> i think i'd prefer letting the authors focuse on opengfx
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09:49:04 <dihedral> petern, the brick land climate would be awesome to if it were ever finished
09:51:34 <petern> stop changing the subject ;p
09:52:23 <planetmaker> hehe. But indeed his graphics look quite nice.
09:52:51 <planetmaker> Let's hope to win him back and do more beyond the w2w buildings...
09:53:42 <dihedral> i was not changing the topic at all - you are!
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10:02:16 <dihedral> planetmaker, does IS have a webview of the hg repository?
10:03:09 <planetmaker> Well. The existing hg repo does. But I cannot reccommend (or at least judge) as it's only Yoricks work which I didn't review so far.
10:03:44 <dihedral> you have a pre-yorky-porky patch ?
10:03:45 <planetmaker> and I think Ammler's server is down right now... so not accessible atm
10:04:13 <planetmaker> Aali has... but of course I do have most versions of the patch. But at home
10:04:30 <planetmaker> if you're interested I'll pm it to you tonight.
10:04:47 <dihedral> well... kinda curious
10:05:17 <Rubidium> isn't Aali the guy who got overrun by Yorick changing things faster than he did?
10:05:18 <planetmaker> dihedral: it's for the cargodest only and obviously not really fit for current trunk. That patch of him...
10:05:34 <planetmaker> Rubidium: if you refer to IS... probably
10:06:42 <dihedral> i recall rortom working with yorky on some stuff - never seen rortom again
10:07:00 <dihedral> i really dislike that kid with a passion
10:07:18 <planetmaker> He had a patch which had some modifications to the station GUI which could go in a good direction IMO
10:07:43 <dihedral> planetmaker, COULD :-P
10:07:51 <planetmaker> dihedral: yes. _could_
10:07:56 <Rubidium> I really ignore that kid with a passion ;)
10:08:11 <planetmaker> the current implementation or realization isn't optimal, I think.
10:08:15 <dihedral> Rubidium, but it is fun to bash him whenever he sais stupid stuff
10:08:21 <dihedral> which is like _always_
10:08:45 <planetmaker> I have the feeling he got better... but he hasn't been around lately much.
10:09:00 <planetmaker> but better, starting from worst, isn't good :D
10:09:03 <dihedral> planetmaker, he has gotten better or his coding has gotten better?
10:09:10 <planetmaker> he got less annoying
10:09:43 <dihedral> petern, that line just cracked me up :-P
10:09:46 <planetmaker> But probably it's deception: not being around stops him from annoying :D
10:10:25 <dihedral> and then when he does show up, he seems to have the feeling of needing to catch up
10:10:59 <planetmaker> well. Which is fair enough. But a good catchup is mostly done in the forums and possibly via logs... so silently :)
10:11:12 <planetmaker> not to forget the commit logs :)
10:11:36 <dihedral> i meant catching up with his annoyingness
10:12:47 * petern grumbles at RV acceleration
10:12:59 <petern> seems i need to put in magic numbers to make it behave decently :/
10:13:24 * dihedral gives petern some magic for the numbers
10:15:34 * planetmaker hates magic numbers
10:16:36 <planetmaker> it's like in a mathematical proof finding the line "here occurs a miracle"... :P
10:16:36 <petern> it's got other 'magic' numbers but they're documented conversion factors
10:17:02 <planetmaker> if they're documented, they're not magic; especially, if they're conversion factors :)
10:17:19 <petern> i.e. te = power / speed, but we have units of 10 hp and mph * 3.2
10:17:48 <Rubidium> and weight differs a factor 4?
10:18:14 <planetmaker> yeah... Personally I prefer to do everything SI internally. But I see the need to do it these "strange" ways due to var size limitations and int restrictions
10:18:30 <petern> so power*50000/speed (it's not 50000, but something close to that) works, is more efficient, and doesn't introduce rounding errors
10:18:48 <petern> it's fine as long as it's documented, which is the problem with the current train acceleration
10:19:17 <petern> Rubidium, doesn't make much difference, actually
10:20:05 <Rubidium> and is speed still in mph*3.2; I see mph*0.8 in the specs too
10:20:51 <petern> yes, we convert from the course speed to fine speed, heh
10:21:06 <petern> that's done in the newgrf loader
10:21:09 <Rubidium> then I've got no clue what could be wrong :(
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10:21:42 <dihedral> my croissants are looking goooooood
10:21:48 <dihedral> brekkies? here i come!
10:22:21 <petern> Rubidium: what's wrong is that the airdrag coefficient value is tailored to ttdpatch's world. when you apply it to physics it needs adjusting.
10:23:34 <petern> i do, of course, have a patch that introduces ttdpatch style acceleration for trains, although i'm not sure how to handle curves, either use the old way or keep ottd's curve handling...
10:23:55 <petern> dihedral, oh... please... *drool*
10:24:01 <planetmaker> what's the difference, petern ?
10:24:19 <planetmaker> between traditional curve handling and TTDP's
10:25:12 <petern> i don't know, i've not looked at that bit in detail. i know it's more customizable than in ottd.
10:25:32 <petern> i suspect it just alters the amount of speed that is reduced when reaching a curve
10:25:45 <petern> i'd need to view it to check :)
10:26:15 <planetmaker> oh right. But then there's no real need in my eyes be able to adjust *every* single parameter. Or rather select between zillions of models.
10:26:47 <planetmaker> Maybe it's a solution to make the single conversion factors an entry in the ini file and have them loaded... maybe similar to newgrf presets :)
10:27:11 <planetmaker> IF you want it fully customizable and have the different models present
10:27:23 <petern> only one at a time, so...
10:29:46 <Rubidium> yeah... I want to define what the air pressure is at different heights ;)
10:30:27 <petern> openbve has that, as well as temperature
10:30:27 <planetmaker> And whether we have a high air pressure and sunny times or a low pressure hurricane approaching...
10:30:39 <petern> on the other hand, that is *supposed* to be a realistic train simulator
10:30:41 <dihedral> Rubidium, on a per-height-level bases?
10:30:44 <planetmaker> not to speak of wind direction
10:30:56 <dihedral> + include 'more height levels' :-D
10:31:04 <dihedral> pressure at level 99
10:31:19 <petern> we have something like 120 levels
10:31:22 <planetmaker> where wind direction would make sense for planes. Travel times highly depend upon it... if we dare to mention the "r"-word :D
10:32:41 <petern> planetmaker, we could make it like cycling in real life -- the wind is always working against you...
10:33:04 <planetmaker> hehe. Very true indeed!
10:33:09 <petern> dihedral, yeah, you don't see trains going up 8 pixels at a time
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11:19:14 <dihedral> may i bring up the discussion of a centralised auth system again? :-P
11:19:42 <Sacro> this channel is a lovely centralised refusal system
11:19:58 <petern> Sacro's not mature enough to answer that.
11:20:24 <petern> I am still confused by your comment the other day...
11:21:21 <petern> 11:24 < Sacro> since when was petern an op?
11:21:21 <petern> 11:24 < Sacro> he's nowhere near mature enough
11:21:34 <dihedral> wow Sacro you must have a brain like a sive
11:22:18 <petern> That was two lines from the end of irssi's history...
11:22:39 <Sacro> i sleep and forget things
11:23:49 <petern> Like that I've had chanop for over 3 years?
11:25:04 <Sacro> not sure why that slipped my mind
11:25:47 <dihedral> because you mind is a sieve
11:26:16 <petern> A colleague sent an email with a question... in the subject... in uppercase...
11:26:32 <Sacro> petern: heh, well what should he put in the topic?
11:27:08 <petern> Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: usually
11:28:10 <petern> I love those 100KB+ emails...
11:28:40 <Sacro> someone e-mailed everyone at the uni using CC: :(
11:29:16 <Sacro> noone has hit reply all yet though
11:30:17 <petern> That's a useful report from the BBC there...
11:30:35 <petern> Wear some shoes with grip you idiots...
11:33:01 <dihedral> 2 inches of snow and the country's out
11:33:48 <Sacro> Vector3f& Vector3f:operator =(const Vector3f &v)
11:33:54 <dihedral> schools close, no busses drive
11:34:08 <petern> It's great, it means the roads are clearer for me :D
11:35:30 <petern> hmm, i just broke google maps
11:35:41 <petern> It had two road overlays at different zoom levels...
11:41:12 <Celestar> dihedral: you think I'm quite fine with the cracks? :P
11:43:25 <Celestar> the no-cd cracks because of failing SecuROM
11:44:39 <Celestar> awesome. now, with all drivers installed and working, I have 5 Ethernet connections on my XP :P
11:44:59 <Celestar> along with 5 symbols in the status bar :P
11:45:01 <Sacro> Celestar: connect them to each otehr!
11:45:58 <Celestar> well 5 Network connections actually. 1) Ethernet, 2) WLAN, 3) IEEE1394, 4) bluetooth, 5) WWAN
11:46:17 <petern> fucking router/webcam/somethign :o
11:46:50 <dihedral> that's a nice combination
11:47:12 <Celestar> plus the total mess that UPNP creates :P
11:47:35 <petern> UPNP... Why yes, I do like to give authorised access to my router, honest!
11:48:09 <Celestar> I have a 300MBPs AP and network card. I have a distance of approxmately 5 cm between the router and the laptop. my current speed is 65MBits
11:48:41 <petern> Have you tried using wires?
11:50:40 <Celestar> petern: It's especially grate that all these 300MBps access points have a 100MBPs wired connection :S
11:52:06 <dihedral> that'd be something for SmatZ petern
11:54:58 <tosse> Celestar: it doesnt really matter, you can't really reach over 100Mbps anyway :)
11:55:09 <Sacro> does www.google.com/translate come up in russian for anyone else?
11:55:30 <dihedral> the output is the same in any language
12:00:23 <dihedral> so... central auth system.....
12:04:03 <Rubidium> dihedral: where's the trust?
12:04:26 <dihedral> well, that'd be the thing to find out :-P
12:04:38 <dihedral> in the openttd server authing :-P
12:04:44 <dihedral> i would trust that :-D
12:05:15 <petern> you'd need a ticketing system
12:05:43 <petern> authentication tickets
12:06:26 <dihedral> "please hold while we connect you to your personal authorisation member of staff"
12:06:27 <Rubidium> what do you want to achieve with 'central authentication'?
12:07:43 <petern> game server gets a ticket from auth server, then passes ticket to client, client authenticates with auth server to validate ticket, server veries with auth server
12:09:09 <Rubidium> trust isn't what you want to achieve and if you want trust then a central authentication system is not what you need (as you need to trust that and everybody could get an account there, trustworthy and untrustworthy entities)
12:09:44 <Rubidium> so there is no trust in the authentication system
12:10:05 <dihedral> i mean trust in knowing the person is who he claims to be
12:10:14 <Rubidium> well, not in case of OpenTTD as there's no root trust authority that only adds trustworthy things
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12:11:42 <Rubidium> e.g. there is someone with the username 'dihedral' in the content system and one in this IRC channel. How can I be sure both are the same entity?
12:12:31 <dihedral> ldap.openttd.org :-D
12:13:11 <Rubidium> so how do I know someone called 'dihedral' in the 'central auth system' is the same as the one in this IRC channel?
12:13:41 <dihedral> that would be cross-system
12:13:56 <dihedral> you have no influence on irc, so that would be a silly link
12:14:05 <dihedral> 2 clients on different games
12:14:20 <petern> run a custom irc server that requires central authentication :D
12:16:16 <Rubidium> even then, one can't force people to use central authentication
12:17:21 <dihedral> it could be defined by the server
12:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i think we need a GUI setting for chosing the graphics pack
12:25:34 <planetmaker> dihedral: but what would you win by having a centrai authentication system? I guess the chances that someone malicious logs into any server as dihedral or planetmaker are quite remote
12:27:07 <dihedral> not allowing them _on_ the server if they are not identified? + a better banning system?
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12:29:17 <planetmaker> :) but then they'll just register as a different name... which basically forces openttd to maintain a database of dead nicks
12:30:38 <planetmaker> dihedral: I'd rather see that as a plug-in to ap :)
12:30:50 <dihedral> i still like the thought of donating money to the project to get an 'identidy' :-P
12:31:01 <planetmaker> _That_ would be a good idea IMO as it allows every site to have their own registered and trusted players.
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12:32:13 <dihedral> why then not have a global one?
12:34:15 <planetmaker> why? :) I don't want to need to register to play a game...
12:34:42 <dihedral> you would not have to
12:34:51 <dihedral> only to play on those servers that require it
12:34:57 <dihedral> which will never be all of them :-P
12:36:35 <planetmaker> but what's wrong with an AP module for authentication?
12:36:52 <dihedral> people are already connected before ap knows about them
12:37:44 <planetmaker> allow only registered IRC users
12:38:16 <dihedral> still, the client already joined the game before ap knows about it
12:38:41 <planetmaker> force them join spectator. Move them, if they're authenticated :D
12:38:46 <planetmaker> nice and complicated :D
12:39:00 <dihedral> they join _before_ ap knows about them
12:39:11 <dihedral> means, game already been paused, unpaused, etc.
12:39:13 <planetmaker> I understood that.
12:39:23 <dihedral> if that is a few slow clients its an annoying waste of time
12:39:43 <dihedral> (forcing them to join as spectator is already on my mind :-P)
12:42:09 <planetmaker> :) I think I might have seen such patch from you :P
12:42:47 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: you have a point certainly with a ingame switch :)
12:43:19 <dihedral> planetmaker, the patch just needs to be written somewhat nicer than the last one
12:45:38 <planetmaker> dihedral: weren't you looking for a task for yourself?
12:45:52 <planetmaker> Or got another one: start with wwottdgd/3 :)
12:46:11 <dihedral> the spectate model is nicer :-P
12:46:48 <planetmaker> "spectate model"? You mean the task "writing join as spectator", or... watching others do wwottdgd/3?
12:47:25 <dihedral> not model - wrong word
12:47:42 <dihedral> the setting to force players join a game as spectators
12:48:51 * dihedral is considering playing gothic 1 again
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13:29:55 <petern> I wonder how Transport Empire is getting on.
13:30:15 <dihedral> or "Transporter" :-P
13:35:01 <Sacro> i still have a copy of Transporter
13:37:43 <dihedral> TTT = terrible terry tate
13:38:13 <Sacro> trains and trucks tycoon
13:39:21 <dihedral> trains trams trucks busses ships and planes tycoon :-D
13:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i could never figure out how to properly build bridges in that game
13:42:17 <Eddi|zuHause> did they actually make final judgement meanwhile on that game?
14:19:27 <petern> "Dead or faulty pixels occur when transistors responsible for the ‘switch on/off’ mechanism in an LCD fail to operate."
14:19:45 <petern> imagine if CPUs could have dead transistors...
14:20:02 <smeding> they can, but those are rejected after inspection
14:20:18 <smeding> silicon is recast to ingots, i guess
14:20:53 <smeding> actually i think some also might be sold as downgraded versions for some chips
14:21:03 <petern> by "could have" i meant "could be sold with"
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14:32:36 <Sacro> smeding: yes, 3 core AMD processors are rejected 4
14:32:42 <Sacro> same with 2s i think as well
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15:40:18 <lanaiya> hi, is it normal that plains crash all the time even if the desasters option is turned off?
15:40:41 <Yexo> yes, but it's much worse if you send big planes to small airports
15:42:19 <lanaiya> and which kind of desasters are turned off with that option exactly :)
15:42:29 <dihedral> desasters, eg. ufo's
15:43:13 <Yexo> lanaiya: you were talking about crashing planes, right? Not only breaking down?
15:43:25 <Yexo> there is a seperate option to turn breakdowns off
15:43:33 <lanaiya> no i mean crashing on landing
15:43:44 <Yexo> ok, that can't be disabled
15:45:03 <dihedral> lanaiya, dont fill you planes so full, then you wont have as many casulties :-P
15:45:33 <lanaiya> well well time is money :P
15:45:46 <lanaiya> and the gas does not get cheaper either
15:53:20 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: tried the advance signals patch already?
15:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm kinda busy
15:54:19 <dihedral> michi_cc, what does it do?
15:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause> it adds advance (yellow) signals
15:54:34 <michi_cc> implements advance singnals
15:55:39 <dihedral> yes - i picked up on that one
15:58:38 <petern> yeah, what tekky wrote there is what we need
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15:58:54 <TrueBrain> Belugas: IT IS SNOWING HERE!!!
15:58:57 <TrueBrain> (hehehehehe, sorry :p)
15:59:17 <petern> yellow signals are just an extra signal state of standard signals
15:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of which, where is goodger? he always wanted snow
15:59:54 <petern> i pissed him off yesterday :D
16:00:51 * Belugas is very hapy for TrueBrain :)
16:01:05 <michi_cc> petern: my patch has combo signals that act a bit like this (just not on braking distance but on the state of the next signal). it has stand-alone advance signals as well, can be used for priority thingies
16:01:52 <TrueBrain> Belugas: which reminds me .. in 17 days I am going to the REAL snow :) Boarding for 7 whole days ... oh jolly days :)
16:02:04 <TrueBrain> well .. glad I had that shared ;) Bye all :)
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16:04:27 <dihedral> michi_cc, placing signals is gonna be getting a real pain up the fuzzy
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16:07:43 <michi_cc> dihedral: why? the combo signals have most of the advantages of the stand-alone signal and are a normal pbs signal as well
16:08:12 <petern> why does it need a new type then? heh
16:08:44 <michi_cc> they are tri-state signals: red as before, yellow if the path is free but the next signal red, green if a path over two signals could be made
16:09:07 <michi_cc> because there's surely somebody that doesn't like it :-p
16:09:22 <petern> they use block signals anyway ;)
16:09:49 <Belugas> what a scotland's shame :)
16:09:54 <michi_cc> the stand-alone advance signal can be used for priorities, every signal encountered will try to reserve on further signal block
16:10:37 <petern> maybe i should start from 1...
16:11:36 <Belugas> god I LOVE that record!
16:12:20 <petern> i haven't watched the dvd yet
16:14:02 <Eddi|zuHause> in a "realistic" network, most signals are combo
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16:18:08 * planetmaker hugs michi_cc for another nice signaling feature :)
16:18:24 <planetmaker> I guess I'll give the patches a try tonight :)
16:21:25 <Belugas> the video of black cat is not bad, but the two other version are ...
16:28:12 <Belugas> lies..there is a video about the band itself, like on the road and stuff
16:28:23 <Belugas> it was actually very intersting
16:28:34 <Belugas> only major problem for me was the accent
16:28:45 <dihedral> planetmaker, did you see Mega's reply? :P
16:32:37 <petern> Belugas, well, that's a problem for anyone...
16:34:40 <petern> I assume... I didn't watch it.
16:39:46 <Belugas> it's long, and there is not much action scenes :)
16:40:01 <Belugas> neither live actions too, that's a minus
16:40:10 <dihedral> no more comments to the undo knob thread :-(
16:40:39 <lanaiya> @ coders(if on's present): woundnt it be a good idea to adjust the zoom lvl for the map to support an overview of even the large maps?
16:41:07 <Roujin> laniya, do you mean the mini map?
16:42:03 <Roujin> there were already tries to do that long time ago, but appearently none of those patches matured enough to be included into the game...
16:43:44 <lanaiya> oh im sorry to hear that. but it would be a nice feature though :/
16:44:01 <dihedral> Belugas, i could start a thread, "ctrl+z" - i searched the forums, nothing came up :-D
16:46:52 <Roujin> (you see the first one is ancient alone by its low task number ;))
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16:51:21 <petern> one day we'll have to write all our own patches
16:51:57 <Belugas> some do it not very fast nor frequently,
16:52:07 <Belugas> some do not even commit them once completed
16:52:33 <Belugas> some do not test not compile them before commiting (that would be me...)
16:55:21 <Roujin> speaking about patches.. I wonder if SmatZ is doing anything with my GUIList filtering patch
16:58:30 <Rubidium> ofcourse he's doing something
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16:58:46 <Rubidium> including testing, compilig, reviewing and ignoring
16:59:25 <Elukka> how can a torrent file be 100 kb...
16:59:27 <Roujin_> I hope more of the previous and less of the latter :D
16:59:35 <Elukka> someone found a 86400x43200 heightmap of the world :D
17:00:18 <Elukka> and nasa has it as a torrent... i'm sure we all know how well torrents work with things only very few people download
17:00:51 <dihedral> are you at it again?
17:06:05 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:09:33 <OwenS> Elukka: They work well if they have a good seeder :p
17:10:05 <Elukka> sure, but something like a nasa world heightmap is bound not to have many seeds :P
17:10:26 <OwenS> NASA should be seeding it then :P
17:22:37 <dihedral> and NASA is a fat-ass seed
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17:24:35 <Elukka> apparently the reason its not a direct download is not a lack of resources, but because downloads got interrupted by maintenance, so they could well seed it...
17:34:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15323 /trunk/bin/ (ai/regression/run.sh scripts/): -Fix: regression backed up game_start.scr but didn't/couldn't restore it.
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17:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> <Elukka> how can a torrent file be 100 kb... <- why would a torrent file like this be extraordinary?
17:47:46 <Elukka> i dont think i was really thinking
17:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> biggest torrent file i spontaneously found is 500kb
17:49:20 <FauxFaux> If it's that big then you should probably rar it then torrent the rar. *stabs people in the face*
17:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause> FauxFaux: multi-part rar, please.
17:50:19 <TinoDidriksen> Oh gods I hate those...
17:50:24 <FauxFaux> With recovery information, just in case you're using one of those torrent clients that doesn't bother hashing stuff.
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17:55:13 <Eddi|zuHause> for the record, the 500kb file compresses to 29%
17:57:58 <TinoDidriksen> Doesn't later versions of the .torrent format allow for compression, actually? I recall reading something about that. Or could be a vendor trick.
17:59:20 <Zahl> hey i have a question about pbs
17:59:29 <Zahl> there are one-way and two-way pbs signals
17:59:31 <TinoDidriksen> In either case, rar is the wrong format to use. For anything.
17:59:46 <Zahl> but why doesn't the two-way pbs signal look like a normal two-way signal
17:59:52 <Zahl> with lights in both directions?
17:59:57 <Zahl> it seems to work just like that
18:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Zahl: because it is a signal only in one way
18:00:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it just allows passing (but not stopping) in the other way
18:00:38 <Eddi|zuHause> which would be stupid, because it only causes deadlocks
18:01:00 <Zahl> hmmm now that you say that
18:01:35 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster
18:08:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15324 /trunk/ (10 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: unify the class used for comparing of strings for std::map
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18:15:40 <Wolf01> I can easily beat you on writing that way
18:17:48 <Wolf01> lol, no that one is not in my knowledge
18:30:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15325 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt korean.txt unfinished/hebrew.txt):
18:30:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-02-03 18:29:45
18:30:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by tucalipe (1)
18:30:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 4 changed by planetmaker (3), hellow (1)
18:30:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hebrew - 615 fixed, 54 changed by 19izhar73 (669)
18:30:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 6 changed by darkttd (6)
18:32:40 <dihedral> hebrew? what a work horse!
18:33:00 <dihedral> planetmaker, keep up dog :-D
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18:39:57 <Belugas> ho... look... here come's Local Authority!
18:41:32 * Prof_Frink stabs Belugas with an apostrophe
18:44:46 <petern> I've not used this laptop for so long, it still has the engine pool in my working copy.
18:45:11 <petern> struct stationview_d { uint32 cargo; };
18:45:20 <petern> Okay, that's an old and obsolete working copy too...
18:45:43 <frosch123> hehe, when I boot win, I can play ottd 0.4.0.1 or so
18:46:07 <Wolf01> I still have some r4xxx checkouts
18:46:32 <Wolf01> very old patches never finished
18:46:49 <Wolf01> like all my other patches
18:47:39 <petern> The third working copy has the YAPP patch applied...
18:49:23 <petern> Hmm, station animation patches
18:49:56 <Wolf01> and any sloped stations with working graphics?
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18:51:43 <Wolf01> adding newstation support to road stations was not so easy as I thought initially
18:52:24 <frosch123> do you have to do more than increasing a constant in sprites.h ?
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18:53:01 <frosch123> or do you want more than adding the sloped dtrs to action5 ?
18:53:05 <patchie> how do i make my trains go one-way?...
18:53:17 <patchie> so trains cant go the other direction
18:53:19 <Wolf01> I don't know anything of the graphics drawing, I only know the transparency code and a little of guis
18:53:32 <patchie> what kind of signals?
18:53:40 <frosch123> patchie: place a signal, and click two or three times on the tile
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19:00:35 <frosch123> patchie, petern: one of you has to change his colour or the shape of the nick
19:03:13 <Prof_Frink> frosch123: Why? They're different colours and different lengths
19:05:55 <frosch123> if i shall look so close to see that, then I can as well read it
19:05:55 <frosch123> and 'reading', well, who does that?
19:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree with frosch123
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19:31:46 <DorpsGek> el_en: I have not seen DorpsGek.
19:32:34 <Mek> okay, so it is the most recent release; I don't think it makes much sense to package nightly snapshots if there aren't even packages of a released version yet
19:42:02 <dihedral> Mek, now get the working with the nightlies and maintain it :-P
19:42:32 <Mek> dihedral: first I want to get it working properly/somewhat integrated with maemo
19:42:40 <Mek> right now it doesn't even show up in the list of running apps
19:43:00 <dihedral> what is that system anyway?
19:43:06 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +v Osai
19:43:29 <Mek> it is the linux variant running on the nokia internet tablets (n800/n810)
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20:08:25 <frosch123> next time the will notice, that he should have piped it into a file
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20:26:58 <Rubidium> Wolf01, meet glm2006ITALY... he speaks Italian too ;)
20:27:40 <Rubidium> then don't leach of an Italian ISP ;)
20:29:15 <Wolf01> I know him, he's an user of my forum ;)
20:30:09 <Wolf01> or at least, he registered to my forum, where I'm the only one which talks
20:30:53 <Belugas> well... if yu claim you don't speak italian and you have users from Italy in your forum... i mean... is it surprising???
20:31:34 <Wolf01> I use google translator for both itaGlian and engRish
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20:33:33 <Mortal> lol, "itaglian", haven't heard that before
20:34:15 <welshdragon> don't shout that out too loud, or Sacro will be after you :P
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20:36:17 <welshdragon> Sacro: read Wolf01's last line :p
20:38:16 <`Ka> hi guys I have a question, been looking on forums and googling but havn't found any answers, good to ask?
20:38:27 <Yexo> just ask what you want to know
20:38:44 <Wolf01> what's the meaning of life?
20:39:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15326 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Old-ai-ishm when refitting vehicles.
20:40:14 <`Ka> ok so basically i have a scenario, towns, etc all good
20:40:30 <`Ka> but it doesnt seem to matter wht i do, my towns always decrease in population
20:40:52 <`Ka> and so once where rail stations and bus stations were in the middle of a residential district, they are no in amongst a network of abandoned roads
20:41:16 <Yexo> is the tile under the town name still a road tile?
20:41:41 <glm2006ITALY> yes speak italian
20:41:47 <glm2006ITALY> I'm italy boy!!! :D
20:42:04 <glm2006ITALY> Wolf01... ma non hai un forum in italia?
20:42:22 <Yexo> `Ka: can you upload your savegame somewhere?
20:42:25 <glm2006ITALY> Wolf you have a italy forum?
20:42:40 <glm2006ITALY> senti io alla fine ci ho rinunciato
20:42:48 <glm2006ITALY> non riuscivo pi ad accedete
20:42:56 <glm2006ITALY> non mi inviava pi
20:43:04 <glm2006ITALY> i dati di accesso.. ed ho perso il link
20:43:30 <`Ka> yexo i can put it on yousendit?
20:43:53 <Yexo> I don't really care where you put it
20:44:01 <welshdragon> glm2006ITALY: english please?
20:44:22 <Yexo> but yousendit seems to require an email adres, right?
20:44:48 <`Ka> I tell you what, I have dinner in the oven and a shower. I won't pester you with your time right now, i shall come back in an hour or so and if you are still here Id appreciate any input you have immensley, but I shan't upload now as I will have to go in 5minutes anyway
20:45:14 <`Ka> i guess if its on the forum actally you could give me a reply to the thread if im not here, ill do that :d
20:45:46 <glm2006ITALY> ok... but i'dont speak very good english :(
20:46:30 <SmatZ> almost nobody here speaks italian
20:47:17 <glm2006ITALY> ok i use automatic traslate ;)
20:47:52 <glm2006ITALY> I wanted to ask:
20:48:04 <glm2006ITALY> What do I need to rebuild the streets of towns / cities?
20:48:15 <glm2006ITALY> please speak very simple english
20:49:13 <SmatZ> what do you mean by "rebuild"?
20:49:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15327 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp ai_instance.hpp): -Fix (r15027): AIs could access the map and other data in their constructor and Load() function while the savegame was not completely loaded.
20:49:31 <frosch123> "Fund local road reconstruction" is available from the town window
20:49:33 <glm2006ITALY> error automatic teraslate
20:49:42 <welshdragon> click on the town name
20:49:52 <SmatZ> yeah, but "Fund local road reconstruction" doesn't do anything useful :-p
20:50:00 <SmatZ> except from blocking all roadvehs in that town...
20:50:01 <welshdragon> choose 'fund local road....'
20:50:15 <glm2006ITALY> but utility the operation?
20:50:36 <welshdragon> glm2006ITALY: you want new roads?
20:51:05 <glm2006ITALY> original roads the city and my roads
20:51:51 <glm2006ITALY> what serves to reconstruct?
20:52:08 <welshdragon> non preoccupatevi
20:52:53 <welshdragon> glm2006ITALY: le strade non hanno bisogno di essere costruito di nuovo
20:54:26 <welshdragon> Sto utilizzando Google
20:54:31 <glm2006ITALY> beh almeno conosci la mia lingua ;)
20:54:34 <el_en> yeah welshdragon, why aren't you italian?
20:54:37 <glm2006ITALY> google traslate?
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20:55:23 <welshdragon> el_en: i might learn italian
20:55:41 <welshdragon> it's similar to french and spanish
20:56:58 <glm2006ITALY> yes... but difference
20:57:23 <glm2006ITALY> differences exist
20:57:23 <welshdragon> now, how to /invite in colloquy
20:58:06 <welshdragon> yes, i want to talk in italian to you
20:59:02 <welshdragon> heh, that solved the problem
21:05:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15328 /trunk/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: -Fix (r15327): Load(data, version) was called instead of Load(version, data).
21:07:35 <Wolf01> hey you, does the fund road reconstruction has any other effect than block competitors' vehicles?
21:08:15 <welshdragon> it's just a great way to annoy people
21:09:22 <welshdragon> hmm, before i go and suggest this.... can bridges be built over buildings?
21:09:30 <welshdragon> (similar to locomotion)
21:10:02 <Wolf01> yes, just disable some checks like I do when I need to build something where I can't
21:10:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15329 /3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp: [Squirrel] -Fix: properly clear the stack on returning so that AI*Modes actually have a chance of working in functions without going through hoops.
21:11:02 <Roujin__> Wolf01, welshdragon: if the advanced option "remove absurd roadbits during road construction" is activated, yes it has.
21:13:41 <el_en> una macchina tutti le stazione gelato.
21:14:21 <el_en> no. i have studied it very very little very very long time ago.
21:14:52 <Wolf01> you wrote "one machine all station iced"
21:15:04 <glm2006ITALY> station ice cream?
21:15:46 <el_en> but i bet it sounded very convincing to those who do not know italian.
21:17:03 <glm2006ITALY> but you english?
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21:45:02 <planetmaker> michi_cc, what actually is the use of the path combo signals in the patch you posted last night?
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21:50:29 <michi_cc> planetmaker: realism (if you want that), making a priority line, fun (or so if you combine it with advance_slowdown_hack.diff) because trains then slow down on yellow signals and can overrun red ones (but it is a hack)
21:51:47 <planetmaker> ok... so without that additional patch they don't really serve a purpose?
21:52:05 <planetmaker> Because running it on a circle line it basically is the same as no signal...
21:53:03 <michi_cc> they look pretty. and you can give trains on a line priority over joining trains for example (also possible with the stand-alone signal of course, but two signals to place)
21:53:07 <planetmaker> while the exits... kinda make trains reserve two signal distances as it seems to me
21:53:38 <planetmaker> uhm... I tried to fabricate exactly that priority...
21:54:00 <planetmaker> But to trains following on that line, they're red, thus stop and cannot follow the previous train anymore.
21:55:30 <michi_cc> it's not an absolute priority, trains from a sideline can still join just after a train on the mainline went past, but it the mainline train can reserve the junction ahead of time
21:56:22 <planetmaker> michi_cc: yes. I see that. But a 2nd train on the ML cannot follow the first without the same distance as the length of the priority
21:56:44 <planetmaker> e.g. it will wait at the start of the priority until the 1st train is past the exit signal
21:57:29 <planetmaker> But I have the feeling that I just don' t get there something :)
22:00:17 <planetmaker> upper line shall continue unharmed, lower line shall enter, if possible without stopping the upper
22:00:52 <planetmaker> using the combo signals a train reserves straigt to the exit... and the subsequent train stops at the entry
22:07:01 <michi_cc> what's the real problem in your screenshot? the entering train on the upper line can pass the next signal as soon as the train in front as passed the signal
22:07:35 <michi_cc> it doesn't work properly of course if you use the speed hack, but that really is just a hack
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22:14:09 <michi_cc> not a very good screenshot though, it is a bit forced :)
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22:16:07 <planetmaker> michi_cc: I haven't installed the speed hack
22:16:10 *** energetic has joined #openttd
22:16:31 <planetmaker> and the "problem" I have is, that I fail to actually make a prio
22:16:47 <planetmaker> a prio which differs from a signal gap on the main line
22:17:04 <petern> what you need is a signal controller...
22:18:03 <SmatZ> whole m2 can be available for track with signals ;)
22:19:59 <SmatZ> 12 bits of m2 are used, but they can be moved to m6 and m7
22:21:27 <petern> Any amount of signal states...
22:21:44 <petern> Performance through the floor...
22:21:51 <planetmaker> michi_cc: my naive understanding of a pbs combo signal was that it allows reservation up to an exit signal - or as long as it can get a reservation using combos only
22:22:20 <planetmaker> well. not understanding. But rather expectation before I tested it :)
22:23:23 <planetmaker> kinda a "reserve as far as you can or until you hit an exit" signal :)
22:23:53 <planetmaker> in anycase the signals look very nice :)
22:24:11 <petern> what would that achieve?
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22:29:40 <planetmaker> petern: what was your question directed at?
22:30:33 <planetmaker> if it referred to the signal type I described: priority for the line which they are built upon
22:31:18 <SmatZ> petern: not all signals would need to be in the pool... in fact, only very few
22:33:11 <petern> planetmaker, what is an "exit" signal then?
22:33:14 <michi_cc> planetmaker: that would require there to be an exit signal
22:33:36 <planetmaker> petern: one of the new signals michi introduced
22:33:46 <planetmaker> or actually any other :)
22:33:59 <planetmaker> depends upon implementation. :)
22:34:36 <michi_cc> the main difference to a signal gap is that with a combo signal trains don't need to have a gap when the junction is occupied
22:35:18 <michi_cc> placing stand-alone advance signals will cause the path to get to one further signal for each advance signal
22:35:54 <planetmaker> ok. That's what I figured with the exit signals
22:36:21 <planetmaker> each combo continues reservation to next signal
22:37:07 <planetmaker> but I don't understand still this :
22:37:09 <planetmaker> [23:34] <michi_cc> the main difference to a signal gap is that with a combo signal trains don't need to have a gap when the junction is occupied
22:37:53 <planetmaker> hm... that's interesting :)
22:38:25 * planetmaker goes back to testing things
22:39:22 <michi_cc> junction blocked, but trains on the main line can still queue as far as possible
22:40:34 <michi_cc> with a gap in signalling, waiting trains would also have such a gap
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22:42:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15330 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Fix [FS#2597]: leaking of Squirrel when using circular references (by enabling the GC).
22:43:27 <michi_cc> that's not a combo signal
22:43:51 <michi_cc> that are pure advane signals, i.e. trains will never stop there
22:44:24 <michi_cc> (ignore the single combo further up)
22:44:52 <michi_cc> three advance signals = three track sections reserved
22:44:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, simple advance signals increase the "lookahead" +1 signal, combo signals act as normal signals, so the lookahead is not changed (+/-0), normal signals do not extend the lookahead, so it is reduced (-1)
22:44:57 <`Ka> any ideas on this anyone?
22:45:25 <michi_cc> almost, Eddi, the first combo signal does a +1
22:45:37 <planetmaker> sorry. whenever I wrote combo I should have written advance :S
22:45:55 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
22:46:19 <Eddi|zuHause> those are corner cases
22:46:27 <planetmaker> ok, so the small signal with yellow is advance signal, right?
22:46:52 <michi_cc> but do note that this "lookahead depth" is not saved or anything, if reservation failed on passing the signal, it won't magically appear later
22:46:52 <planetmaker> And the path signal with the yellow is the path combo signal in your terminology?
22:47:04 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
22:47:07 <michi_cc> use the info tool, pm :)
22:49:30 <el_en> does someone know wtf is going on when powering on a disk in a hotswap thing causes one or two other disks to experience a power reset?
22:50:18 <el_en> which, in turn, causes an unrelated RAID1 mirror unit to degrade, besides the one whose disk was powered down.
22:51:00 <planetmaker> thank you for your patience and explanation, michi_cc.
22:52:45 <planetmaker> Now it makes sense - and yes, I liki it! :)
22:57:55 <planetmaker> he... I found a way to create lost reservation, michi_cc
23:01:09 <planetmaker> the train waiting at the red signal - which is read due to its own reservation
23:01:28 <planetmaker> way how to create that described in the image
23:01:39 <planetmaker> got 2 go to bed now. :)
23:01:44 <planetmaker> Have a good night all :)
23:17:51 <el_en> these House M.D. intro scenes are so predictable.
23:19:26 <el_en> it's always the healthy-looking who gets sick, not the fatty or old or midget.
23:21:21 <petern> Not a patch on Casualty then...
23:30:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15331 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Fix (r15330): remove extra semicolons
23:34:38 <petern> ah, so, squirrel leaks... because we disabled the GC?
23:38:01 <SmatZ> problem was with circular dependencies
23:45:37 <petern> i didn't do anything in gimp :o
23:48:46 <Belugas> i would not blame you, sir :)
23:49:05 <Belugas> i am doing customer support right now
23:49:20 <Belugas> while integrating the modest changes in trunk i did today at work
23:49:32 <Belugas> bah... i'm used to it
23:49:50 <kd5pbo> Belugas: What are you supporting?
23:51:07 <User1> I've installed the OpenTTD via Windows 2k / XP / Vista (32bit) (installer)
23:51:39 <User1> but the game won't run, some files are missing:
23:51:46 <Belugas> kd5pbo, currently, it's a PINPad that is unresponsive, or what it feels like
23:52:17 <User1> TRG1R.GRF and some other .GRF files
23:52:24 <SpComb> User1: the origional graphics resources are not distributed with OpenTTD
23:52:58 <User1> so should i load some patches, which are presented in the forum?
23:53:09 <User1> or how can i get these ones?
23:53:45 <User1> there is a hint for sample.cat even - what's this?
23:54:02 <SpComb> those are the graphics files that came with the origional TTD
23:55:48 <User1> and do i have to buy the original one? i have it on a nearly 15 year old disk, but my laptop isn't quite cooperative to accept the disks :D
23:56:34 <SpComb> that's the best option
23:56:48 <User1> sorry, what's the best option?
23:57:00 <SpComb> copying them off the CD
23:57:37 <Belugas> a cd reader is not a spare resource. it's STILL quite abondant
23:58:34 <SpComb> doesn't mean you need one on a laptop, as long as you have a desktop with a DVD drive on the network...
23:59:18 <kd5pbo> Or find a friend and email files.
23:59:21 <User1> didn't know that TTD is available on CD
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