IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-28
00:04:33 <worldemar> they are useful )
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00:11:42 <Wolf01> 'night
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00:56:22 <worldemar> 4:45, and it's time to sleep for a while...
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01:06:27 <De_Ghosty> what we really need is signal in tunnels and bridges :D
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01:20:40 <Eddi|zuHause> go ahead ;)
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01:57:59 <Vaevictus> good evening all! i started playing with heightmaps with 0.6.3, and it seems like it never generates bubble factories. can anyone reproduce this symptom? (seems to work fine with normal generation)
02:09:02 <kd5pbo> Is there a handy way to get the channel bot to report the latest changes to trunk?
02:09:22 <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd commit
02:09:22 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r15287 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp (2009-01-27 21:51:06 UTC)
02:09:23 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Cleanup: some code style, remove erroneous comment.
02:09:24 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Document: the fact that zlib reads uninitialised data (valgrind notices this) and that it won't be fixed in zlib and that we can't do anything about it except ignoring it.
02:09:54 <kd5pbo> Any way to get the past N commits?
02:10:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can give a number. but talk to the bot in private
02:10:39 <kd5pbo> Will do.
02:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> much easier would be to get an svn checkout and use svn log, though :p
02:11:20 <kd5pbo> Well, true
02:12:49 <kd5pbo> Did the trick.
02:21:04 * Vaevictus looks at john mcmurray
02:23:06 <Vaevictus> (junior)
02:23:07 <Vaevictus> :)
02:29:33 <kd5pbo> Yeah, yeah.
02:29:40 <kd5pbo> C freaking Q.
02:29:42 * Vaevictus <-- kc0kef
02:29:42 <Vaevictus> :)
02:29:44 <Vaevictus> heh
02:29:50 <kd5pbo> HiHi
02:30:59 <Vaevictus> so ... anyone in here wanna fire up a copy of trunk or 063 to see if they also get no bubble factories when spawning a heightmap based map?
02:36:34 <Belugas> sounds like a real exciting activity
02:36:41 <Belugas> i'll pass the opportunity
02:38:26 <Vaevictus> heh
02:39:11 <Vaevictus> not that difficult... click candyland, click play heightmap, select a heightmap, check map for bubble factories :)
02:39:46 <Belugas> clicking on stuff ? yurk... too lazy to do that
02:39:56 <Vaevictus> heh
02:40:40 <Vaevictus>
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02:45:36 <kd5pbo> What is that?
02:46:59 <Vaevictus> a heightmap :)
02:47:17 <Vaevictus> the black is sea level, the grey is a bit higher
02:47:18 <kd5pbo> Ah
02:51:56 <Belugas> honestly, as long as it works in trunk, i would not care too much about it. But somehow, i think i kind of remembering a fix about it, although i'm not too sure, to be honest
02:52:03 <Belugas> but it does work in trunk
02:52:24 <Vaevictus> yeah, works for me if it works in trunk. :)
02:52:30 <Vaevictus> there's apparently other issues too :)
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02:54:32 <Pikka> There's a song that I recall my mother sang to me, she sang it as she tucked me in when I was ninety-three...
02:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the night reveals the weirdest kind of people :p
02:59:20 <Pikka> hello Eddi
03:00:55 <Belugas> adn it goes like this "tut tuut tuut tutututut"
03:00:59 <Aali> it's not night in .au
03:01:05 <Vaevictus> Belugas: you're sure it works in trunk?
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03:01:33 <Vaevictus> i get similar results in trunk
03:03:23 <Vaevictus> no bubble generator in candyland, no farm or forest in cold climate,
03:03:48 <Vaevictus> no water stuff in desert
03:04:27 <Vaevictus> no lumber mill either in desert
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03:05:50 <Vaevictus> normal climate dosen't have bank, oil rig, or oil refinery, but that's probably "okay"
03:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> banks and oil rigs are not created on game generation
03:06:47 <Vaevictus> genertated a max size world... about 380+ of each type, but zero bubble generators
03:06:57 <Vaevictus> Eddi|zuHause: that's why i said it was "okay"
03:06:57 <Vaevictus> :)
03:14:18 <Vaevictus> Eddi|zuHause: what about forests and farms in the cold climate?
03:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Vaevictus: forests only above, farms only below snow line
03:15:08 <Vaevictus> hmm
03:15:20 <Vaevictus> lemme make a new heightmap with a bit more variance
03:15:40 <Vaevictus> i suppose there's an area in between with neither?
03:16:14 <Belugas> well... unless my repo is too heavily broken up, i'd say it does work
03:16:27 <Vaevictus> Belugas: what heightmap are you using?
03:16:50 <Belugas> a litebrite designe made for my son
03:17:15 <Belugas> ther is NO difference whatsoever in the generation process
03:17:39 <Belugas> therefor, it might very well be your heighmaps that do not provide required landscape
03:17:57 <Vaevictus> Belugas: i'd hope so. :)
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03:20:52 <Belugas> make a test, run a very flat heighmap and see what it does
03:20:59 <Belugas> experiment, in other words
03:21:06 <Vaevictus> i'm working on that already :)
03:21:53 * Vaevictus fires up the test
03:22:20 <Vaevictus> look ... a farm. in the middle of my "generating world" view
03:22:21 <Vaevictus> lol
03:22:44 * Vaevictus blames it all on mspaint ;)
03:23:51 <Belugas> as soon as you have ms in your stuff, you know you'll going to blame... ms for it :)
03:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> s/paint//
03:23:58 <Vaevictus> looks like a big area in the middle altitudes with neither forest nor farms... and happens to contain #808080
03:24:05 <Vaevictus> which was my color :)
03:24:47 <Vaevictus> bubble generators too :)
03:24:57 <Vaevictus> thanks Belugas ... you're a genius...
03:25:09 <Vaevictus> is there any page somewhere which lists altitude requirements?
03:25:39 <Belugas> Vaevictus, not a genius at all, believe me
03:25:49 <Belugas> simple logic and knowledge of the system :)
03:26:03 <Belugas> as for the wiki, dunno
03:26:20 <Eddi|zuHause> src/table/industry_land.h i'd say ;)
03:26:44 <Belugas> let say wiki is not really my first reference tool :)
03:26:53 <Belugas> yup to Eddi|zuHause
03:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> or src/table/build_industry.h
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03:35:54 <Vaevictus> hmm... can't find it
03:37:18 <Belugas> Use The Source, Luke
03:37:34 <Vaevictus> yeah, working on it.
03:37:36 <Vaevictus> not finding it
03:37:40 <Belugas> Let The POWER of the SVN be always with Ya
03:37:56 <Vaevictus> i'm looking at those files you mentioned...
03:38:12 <Belugas> build_industry.h is THE file to look for
03:38:25 <Vaevictus> yeah... didn't see anything relevant the first time around
03:42:41 <Vaevictus> i'm guessing it's the CHECK_FOREST
03:42:43 <Vaevictus> or something
03:47:40 <Belugas> or somehting maybe... i'd may be tempted to look for SLOPE_STEEP or something alike :)
03:48:07 <Vaevictus> that looks like it's related to graphics
03:48:11 <Vaevictus> could be though
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03:51:14 <kd5pbo1>
03:51:17 <kd5pbo1> Oops.
03:51:28 <kd5pbo1> Anybody wanna work as an army historian?
03:51:35 <kd5pbo1> I meant to send it to someone else.
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03:52:45 <Vaevictus> Belugas/ Eddi|zuHause : i'm lost in the code. i still think it's related to CHECK_FOREST and the CheckProc enum... but i don't know where that gets applied
03:54:43 <Belugas> kd5pbo, i'm totally halergic to anything that touches from deep nor far to army stuff... so... no thanks
03:55:06 <kd5pbo> A history major friend is looking for a job.
03:55:41 <Belugas> Vaevictus, you are on a goose chase/ the code works fine
03:55:59 <Belugas> kd5pbo, a lot of people are looking for a job
03:56:14 <Vaevictus> Belugas: i concur, the code works fine. but i want to design a good height map :)
03:56:45 <kd5pbo> Life as a CS major is good.
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03:59:31 <Belugas> life as a programmer is good
03:59:34 <Belugas> andf fuck the army
04:00:09 <Belugas> Vaevictus, i do undestand
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04:03:17 <Belugas> just note that the bubble factory needs flat ground
04:03:45 <Vaevictus> and a certain altitude :)
04:07:41 <Vaevictus> looks like bub gens are 50,100,and 150ft elevatoins
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04:09:33 <Belugas> yup
04:09:35 <Belugas> static bool CheckNewIndustry_BubbleGen(TileIndex tile)
04:09:35 <Belugas> {
04:09:35 <Belugas> return GetTileZ(tile) <= TILE_HEIGHT * 4;
04:09:35 <Belugas> }
04:12:02 <Vaevictus> where's that?
04:12:12 <Vaevictus> forests start at 450' looks like
04:12:40 <Vaevictus> farms below 200'
04:14:30 <Vaevictus> and in desert, water stuff below 150'
04:14:32 <Belugas> that is in industr_cmd.cpp, around 1166
04:15:15 <Vaevictus> dang
04:15:18 <Vaevictus> i just barely missed that one
04:17:10 <Vaevictus> cool, thanks
04:17:14 * Vaevictus heads to bed!
04:23:06 <Belugas> so am i
04:23:22 <Belugas> newobjects is a little bit closer to reality now...
04:23:29 <Belugas> we'll see
04:23:30 <Belugas> night
04:25:04 <Vaevictus> thanks again
04:28:12 <Pikka> newobjects newobjects rah rah rah! *waves pompoms*
04:28:18 <Pikka> gnight guys
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06:23:53 <Pikka> hallo skiddles
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07:33:49 <dihedral> morning
07:34:19 <Pikka> hello
07:36:11 <doc> is there a bug with pathfinding in the nightlies?
07:36:59 <Tefad> is there ever not a bug in pathfinding
07:37:00 <doc> I have a station off to one side on a route, for some trains to go to, but all trains seem to use the tracks that go towards it despite there being a shorter, straighter, path
07:37:02 <doc> hehe
07:37:08 <doc> it used not do that
07:38:26 <doc> ok, changing to npf fixed it
07:38:29 <Aali> it's not really a "bug" just because the pathfinder isn't 200% perfect 200% of the time
07:38:45 <doc> Aali: this was wrong 100% of the time
07:39:17 <Aali> well, if it doesn't do the same thing in the same situation every time, that's a bug
07:39:38 <Aali> but it can't handle all situations perfectly
07:39:45 <doc> it does do the same thing, the same wrong thing :)
07:40:08 <doc> think of a a track like this [station]=<|
07:40:20 <doc> the path it should have been following was straight up the |
07:40:25 <doc> instead it was using the <
07:41:28 <dihedral> doc: then check your rails!!
07:41:50 <dihedral> remove the connection to the < and see where the train has issues to pass
07:42:01 <doc> ok
07:42:11 <dihedral> perhaps you are using standard instead of electric at some point
07:42:20 <dihedral> are missing a track, or have a wrong signal
07:43:41 <dihedral> and perhaps you can upload a screenshot somewhere?
07:43:45 <doc> dihedral: hehe, nope, works perfectly when I remove a section of track
07:43:46 <doc> sure
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07:48:47 <doc> dihedral:
07:49:41 <dihedral> you should disable 90 degree turns for trains and such!
07:51:40 <doc> dihedral: I thought I had. Where's that in the settings again? but isn't that beside the point?
07:52:30 <dihedral> no, you want the train to go straight ahead, and that will make the train go straight ahead :-P
07:52:32 <Timitry> Somewhere under advanced settings ---> Vehicles ----> trains
07:53:20 <dihedral> also: where is that train heading to? it's not the station to the right of the main line is it?
07:54:13 <doc> dihedral: no, it's meant to be going straight ahead when it turns left
07:54:34 <doc> dihedral: i.e. staying on one of the two tracks that are parallel
07:54:48 <doc> .. and in the same direction
07:55:11 <Aali> doc: but is the destination actually reachable from that track?
07:55:18 <Aali> without reversing somewhere
07:55:31 <dihedral> what happens if you have a track that goes to the mainline track to the right?
07:55:33 <doc> Aali: yes, if I remove a chunk of the track (the one it's following under yapf) it follows the correct path
07:56:11 <doc> dihedral: sorry, you lost me
07:56:39 <Aali> doc: not good enough (because then there is no other path)
07:56:57 <doc> Aali: hmm?
07:57:26 <doc> under npf it works perfectly fine. Goes straight on the track. Under Yapf it goes to the left like the screenshot
07:57:48 <doc> no modifications to the track
07:58:48 <Aali> npf doesn't need to find a path all the way to its destination
07:58:50 <Aali> yapf does
07:59:01 <doc> ok, but it's still correct while yapf isn't
07:59:04 <Aali> if it can't, the train can do whatever it wants
07:59:14 <Aali> including stupid detours
07:59:36 <dihedral> doc: your 90 degree turns is the issue
07:59:48 <doc> dihedral: I can't switch that off in my settings
07:59:59 <doc> there's no option
08:00:02 <dihedral> you just have not found the setting
08:00:05 <doc> atleast not that I can see
08:00:05 <Aali> thats the main difference between npf and yapf, npf tries to get the train as close to the target as possible, yapf finds the exact route
08:00:08 <dihedral> and yes you can switch it off
08:00:32 <doc> ok, but why is it still finding the lesser optimal route in yapf?
08:00:47 <doc> (every time, not just randomly)
08:00:56 <doc> I can send you the savegame if you like
08:00:58 <dihedral> open the console
08:01:04 <dihedral> patch pf.forbid_90_deg true
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08:01:50 <doc> ok, testing
08:02:01 <Aali> doc: I already told you, if it can't find a route, it will just go around randomly until it can
08:02:16 <Aali> (pseudo-randomly, of course)
08:02:25 <doc> Aali: but it can find a route
08:02:34 <Aali> how do you know that?
08:02:41 <doc> because it's a straight line..
08:02:55 <doc> dihedral: ok, that made a difference.
08:03:00 <Aali> the final destination is at the end of that line?
08:03:05 <doc> Aali: yes
08:03:24 <doc> it's going back onto the correct track, but it should never have taken that detour in the first place
08:03:25 <Timitry> And it can reach that destination without turning around in a station or a depot?
08:03:31 <Aali> and there are no bad signals, no non-electric tracks?
08:03:31 <doc> Timitry: yep
08:03:34 <doc> Aali: nope
08:03:49 <doc> Aali: when I remove a small (non-signal) section of the detour track it works perfectly
08:05:48 <Aali> assuming you have made a savegame already, try rebuilding the line all the way from the junction (where it makes the wrong turn) to the destination
08:06:01 <dihedral> perhaps yapf has an odd penalty setting for 90 degree turns :-P
08:06:06 <doc> hehe
08:06:26 <Aali> that would have been discovered earlier :P
08:06:28 <doc> well, other sections of the map require 90 degree turns so I have to switch it back on or stuff breaks :/
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08:07:02 <doc> Aali: why rebuild it? it's working fine under a different pathfinder
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08:07:48 <Aali> ..
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08:08:14 <Aali> because if you do, we will know if it's a caching error in yapf or not
08:09:08 <doc> Aali: if I take out a chunk of track instead will it try to rebuild it?
08:09:12 <doc> (the cache)
08:09:21 <doc> I don't want to rebuild it all, pain in the ass
08:09:44 <Aali> err, it's a straight line
08:10:07 <doc> not at the station, it branches
08:11:01 <Aali> and now you tell me this?
08:11:32 <Aali> ah well, I'm bored, please go ahead and side-step the issue by using npf
08:12:28 <doc> what do you mean "now you tell me this?". If it was so relevant why didn't you ask. The destination isn't even close to where the problem is occurring.
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08:13:07 <dihedral> Aali: do you still have the password saving patch?
08:15:14 <Aali> doc: well I told you a couple of time that yapf needs to find the exact route from start to finish or trains will go into SUPERDUMB-mode but whatever
08:15:25 <Aali> dihedral: I do, this is like the third time you ask :P
08:15:31 <dihedral> :-D
08:15:47 <dihedral> yes - it's like the third time i think of it (plus i want to change the topic) :-D
08:16:06 <doc> Aali: and how am I supposed to know that that means you need to know about branching off at the destination? :/
08:16:45 <dihedral> doc: afaik openttdcoop has junctions the size of your map, and they run a couple thousand trains on that, and never had that issue :-P
08:17:01 <doc> dihedral: fine, I'm making it up.
08:17:03 * doc shrugs
08:19:13 <Aali> dihedral: so do you want it or what? :P I haven't changed anything since last time, but I did accidentally test it since it's part of my patchpack and my server went into perpetual desync
08:19:43 <Aali> and it worked, even though it didn't really matter since all players involved had rcon and move capability
08:19:54 <dihedral> :-D
08:20:04 <dihedral> yes, i would love to see the patch
08:20:19 <dihedral> perhaps i can update it to current trunk and fix whatever the issue was :-P
08:20:41 <dihedral> would be quite nice if servers finally managed to secure companies after loading a savegame
08:20:50 <dihedral> (with the correct hashes)
08:21:07 <Aali> oh the issue I had was totally unrelated to that patch
08:21:45 <Aali> and the old version still applies to current trunk as far as I know
08:21:56 <Aali> but I'll upload the one from my patch repo for you
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08:23:11 <dihedral> sweet :-)
08:23:13 <dihedral> thanks
08:25:05 <Aali>
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08:25:43 <Aali> there had been one small change since the saveload files were moved
08:25:47 <Aali> but that's it
08:26:10 <Aali> oh and the 'w' shouldn't be there, it's an artifact of the upload system
08:29:13 <dihedral> cute :-)
08:30:10 <Aali> it's not my upload system, it's not even my server :P
08:30:59 <dihedral> hehe
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09:04:41 <planetmaker> good morning
09:04:53 <Roest> mrng
09:07:20 <edeca> Hey
09:14:29 <dihedral> morning pm
09:16:00 <petern> "I have contacted the US Post Office and am seeking
09:16:00 <petern> prosecution of everyone involved, which includes you."
09:16:00 <petern> okay
09:16:00 <Roest> k
09:16:00 <petern> maybe my knowledge of US legal proceedings is a little lacking
09:16:00 <petern> but...
09:16:00 <petern> US Post Office?
09:17:24 <Roest> just wait till they come after you
09:17:40 <TinoDidriksen> There's no such thing, anyways. It's the US Postal Service.
09:18:00 <petern> Quite.
09:18:20 <petern> Also the word is "anyway."
09:32:50 <edeca> Involved in what? You rob another delivery truck? :)
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09:49:39 <Roest> hmm KDE4.2 for windows, now why would anyone want to do that
09:49:58 <edeca> Roest: amaroK on windows?
09:50:07 <edeca> Roest: Better than any other player I've used
09:50:53 <Roest> what does it do that winamp can't?
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09:52:01 <dihedral> why would someone use windows in the first place?
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09:52:24 <Rubidium> same reason someone wants OSX?
09:52:32 <dihedral> osx is good!
09:52:43 <dihedral> + it's a unix system
09:53:07 <Rubidium> too bad it throws away all unix goodiness
09:53:15 <Rubidium> like backward compatible APIs
09:53:41 <dihedral> yes, ok
09:56:39 <Rubidium> or backward compatible video card drivers for that matter
10:01:01 <edeca> Rubidium: But it's so pretty1
10:06:06 <Rubidium> a nuclear explosion is pretty too
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10:07:21 <petern> raa, new monitor
10:07:26 <petern> 22" 1680x1050 :D
10:07:27 <thingwath> I have just installed KDE 4.2 (on fedora, though) and it looks great.
10:08:38 <Forked> petern: I have a couple of those at work. Good stuff :)
10:08:42 <thingwath> Hm, I could use new monitor too :)
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10:09:17 <thingwath> If only that stupid intel driver could support screens larger than 2048x2048 properly...
10:10:33 <petern> it's got a dodgy patch in a corner :(
10:10:35 <petern> oh well
10:10:42 <petern> only where status bars go :p
10:11:21 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (107-27)*5/9
10:11:21 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 44.4444444444
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10:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> what actually happened to the per-vehicle-group-liveries?
10:34:25 <petern> i forgot about it :)
10:34:44 <goodger> it was rather nice
10:35:12 <goodger> it was useful for imitating FGW's insane livery schema
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10:56:18 <petern> it was?
10:56:22 <petern> but it was never coded :p
10:56:25 <petern> not finished, anyway
11:03:55 <Eddi|zuHause> since we now have a tree view, how difficult would it be to use that for nested vehicle groups?
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12:51:02 <Mortomes> Is there a newgrf with ECS compatible ships?
12:52:24 <|Japa|> I believe so
12:52:28 <|Japa|> I'll check
12:52:40 <Mortomes> Thanks
12:52:50 <petern> i think there's an ECS adapter for newships
12:53:42 <|Japa|> yes
12:53:50 <|Japa|> newshipa has an ECS adaptor
12:54:45 <Mortomes> Hmmm, the link to it in GRFCrawler seems to be dead
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12:55:08 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a forum thread somewhere
12:57:25 <Mortomes> Turns out I already had it in the openttdcoop grfpack :P
13:04:42 <dihedral> yes, it would be in there :-P
13:07:01 <Belugas> fun hey, grab all grfs yo can find, withouth knowing what they are up to ;)
13:07:10 <Belugas> did I already said that, somewhere?
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13:07:11 <Belugas> mmh...
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13:08:56 <|Japa|> anybody here plays with cargodest?
13:10:38 <edeca> Nah, you're the only player ;)
13:11:45 <Roest> i still use paxdest, this new stuff is the devil
13:12:17 <dihedral> Belugas, deja vu
13:12:30 <petern> Belugas :D
13:12:52 <petern> it's the devil, eh?
13:15:10 <Roest> =)
13:24:37 <Mortomes> I play with cargodest, loving it
13:29:51 <Retro> on current version or you stopped at 14691 ?
13:31:11 <Mortomes> I uh.. have no idea
13:31:20 <Retro> great :)
13:31:24 <Mortomes> It says OpenTTD h3b244a8f at the top :P
13:31:40 <Retro> som I think you just have binary , you are not self compiler :)
13:31:56 <Mortomes> Yeah
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13:36:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15288 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix (r15212): Don't set the newgame setting for water borders to a random value if it's 'random' when the newgame gui is opened.
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13:38:14 <|Japa|> it's hard to get all the pax transported
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13:39:22 <|Japa|> apparently they got so pissed at one point, the loaded about 600 tonnes of m,ail into a carriage that could only hold 30
13:39:35 <|Japa|> just to get it out of hte station
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13:39:51 <Mortomes> hehe
13:40:14 <Mortomes> Yeah, it is really hard to transport all passengers once you've got a bunch of cities connected.
13:40:22 <Mortomes> Something needs to be tweaked there
13:40:27 <|Japa|> went from 0% to 255% several times
13:41:38 <|Japa|> the pax I was transporting weren't giving enough income for me to afford a new train to transport the rest on
13:46:44 <|Japa|> it's a shame I can't controll when they use the indian loading sceme
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13:51:32 <dihedral> dbg: [net] recv failed with error 110
13:51:33 <dihedral> dbg: [net] recv failed with error 110
13:51:33 <dihedral> dbg: [ms] Vehicle 13 (index 952) arrived at wrong stop
13:51:33 <dihedral> dbg: [net] send failed with error 104
13:51:42 <dihedral> got a few of these ....
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13:51:58 <glx> network problems
13:52:37 <dihedral> so nothing i have to worry about
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13:53:09 <dihedral> do you know how i can find out why i am getting the nasty out of memory issues?
13:53:19 <Rubidium> 104 = connection reset by peer, 110 = connection timed out
13:53:27 <dihedral> perfect, thank you Rubidium
13:53:31 <Rubidium> dihedral: are you running AIs?
13:53:34 <dihedral> nope
13:53:46 <Rubidium> then I've got absolutely no idea
13:53:47 <dihedral> was not a single one loaded this time
13:56:07 <Rubidium> then I've got no idea
13:56:36 <Rubidium> if you want to know you should compile a debugbuild (level 3) and run that in valgrind --leak-check=full
13:56:38 <Roest> the situation improved though, we went from absolutely no idea to no idea
13:56:44 <Rubidium> and tell us where it leaks
13:58:34 <ccfreak2k> Keep a sponge handy to clean up the leaked bits.
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14:01:51 <edeca> ccfreak2k: I find it best to cook with them. Makes a nice marinade.
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14:07:51 <nicfer> I've seen on discovery channel various interesant futuristic methods of transport and some of them would be cool to see in ottd
14:08:49 <Eddi|zuHause> well, make a newgrf
14:09:21 <edeca> Heck, I hope the discovery channel isn't the source for other openttd features :\
14:09:36 <edeca> newanimals.grf
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14:09:46 <Roest> i saw on star trek some features i'd like to see in ottd
14:09:46 <nicfer> One of them is a car that can drive both on road and in a special rail
14:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> cars running on rails is not exactly a new idea...
14:11:25 <nicfer> They acouple one each other to reduce the effects of wind
14:13:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and by coupling you lose exactly every advantage of cars...
14:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> might as well just stuff them on a car transporter
14:14:25 <edeca> I saw an advert on TV where a guy wakes up and rides a waterchute to work through the city.. that would be pretty cool.
14:14:59 <petern> i want everything from futurama
14:15:03 <petern> in ottd
14:15:05 <petern> out of the box!
14:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> travelling in pipes. funny ;)
14:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> or did you mean suicide boxes? :p
14:15:59 <petern> all of it!
14:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> or giant lady-bug-cows?
14:16:26 <nicfer> Are considerated futuristic things realistic?
14:16:36 <petern> what?
14:19:23 <edeca> nicfer: You can make a newgrf for anything you like.
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15:39:02 <planetmaker> <-- hehe. If they make their point there'll be no holidays for pupils anymore :D
15:45:57 <SmatZ> hehehe
15:46:20 <SmatZ> also, productivity of most people is very low during weekends
15:46:38 <Roest> actually for me it's also low during weekdays
15:46:48 <SmatZ> :-D
15:47:22 <|Japa|> my productivity is low during days of the week that end in y
15:48:18 <SmatZ> :_D
15:48:23 <|Japa|> does OTTD have any cheats?
15:48:28 <edeca> |Japa|: Yes
15:48:30 <SmatZ> Ctrl+Alt+C
15:48:35 <|Japa|>
15:48:35 <Belugas> planetmaker, what did the commit that broke zuu's patch brough to trunk?
15:50:27 <planetmaker> hey Belugas :)
15:50:47 <planetmaker> Well... I read it such that there was "only" a missing update of a window fixed...
15:50:54 <dihedral> *** [GER] Timmaexx has started a new company (#11) <- the beauty of it :-P
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15:52:34 <planetmaker> ... but then my guess is that I understand it somewhat wrongly...
15:52:55 <planetmaker> hm... let me guess: I "fixed" it such that it's now done twice?
15:55:32 <planetmaker> [16:47] <|Japa|> my productivity is low during days of the week that end in y <-- move to Germany then (or probably many other contries will suffice ;) ). Every day ends with a g exept Saturday in some regions.
15:56:30 <planetmaker> mäh. And I forgot about Wednesday which is completely different, but w/o y none the less.
15:56:38 <SmatZ> "Sonnabend, der" interesting, never heard that
15:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's the evening before the "Sonntag"
15:57:47 <planetmaker> :)
15:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause> similar to how the "Feierabend" used to be the evening before a "Feiertag" [Holiday]
15:58:07 <planetmaker> SmatZ: it's my impression it was used more often some years ago.
15:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "Feierabend" later expanded to be every evening, when you stop working
15:58:29 <SmatZ> :o)
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15:59:13 <Belugas> planetmaker, i may have been wrong then
15:59:25 <Belugas> what was the said revision?
16:00:03 <planetmaker> <-- r15273
16:05:52 <planetmaker> Belugas: can I conclude from your questions that part of it are going into trunk in the somewhat near future? :)
16:05:57 <Belugas> my fault, totally my fault
16:06:04 <planetmaker> no worries :)
16:06:11 <petern> don't assume, or conclude, anything :p
16:06:18 <planetmaker> :P
16:06:24 <Belugas> i was referring to r15283
16:06:26 <planetmaker> right. Let's speculate :)
16:06:56 <Belugas> misc_gui.cpp had a little change that you did not reflected onyour fix, coming from that commit
16:07:33 <planetmaker> Yeah, saw that. But the patch doesn't touch that part and isn't harmed by that commit of yours.
16:07:46 <planetmaker> it just gives some offsets.
16:08:28 <Belugas> it does :) there is a IsWidgetFocused(10) where 10 chan be something else ;)
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16:11:08 <Swallow> In ShutdownGame (openttd.cpp line +/-350) all memory pools are cleared, but the OrderList pool is not
16:11:27 <Swallow> Does this have a reason or is it a memory leak?
16:11:51 <Aali> OrderLists can and will be reused AFAIK
16:11:53 <SmatZ> Swallow: no
16:12:00 <SmatZ> more pools are not cleared at exit
16:12:03 <SmatZ> for some reason
16:13:08 <SmatZ> Swallow: one rather old patch to free something...
16:13:26 <petern> no need to :p
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16:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it should at least be documented why it is not freed
16:14:02 <SmatZ> petern: it's cleaner...
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16:15:52 <Swallow> ok, thanks for info
16:16:25 <petern> at long as it's cleaned up between games that's good enough
16:16:42 <petern> the OS will tidy it up on exit much faster than we can free it
16:17:13 <petern> never done it myself
16:18:03 <edeca> Only benefit of always free()ing on exit is that it makes it easier to use valgrind
16:18:27 <petern> yeah
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16:53:58 <|Japa|> yay! mad a XOR gate!
16:54:09 <|Japa|> now I just have to make moar
16:54:26 <Roest> yay
16:54:27 <Aali> a MOAR gate?
16:56:15 <dihedral> more :-P
16:56:35 <Roest> whats a more gate?
16:56:45 <dihedral> more xor gates :-P
16:56:46 <Aali> whatever it is, I want one
16:56:47 <planetmaker> <-- |Japa| you know that article(s)?
16:57:10 <petern> lolgates
16:57:15 <planetmaker> I want more ore or e...
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16:57:42 <dihedral> # gib mir mein erz zurueck...
16:57:55 <planetmaker> nooo! It's my preciousssss ;)
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17:01:38 <el_en> # Du hast Sternenteile mit zurückgebracht!
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17:06:56 <planetmaker> hehe :)
17:07:25 <planetmaker> But only those with a high metal content. So... I rather settle for (inner) parts of planets :P
17:07:57 <el_en> what's the english term for those Sternenteile in the game?
17:08:56 <planetmaker> uh? What's a "Sternenteil" even in German?
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17:32:20 <|Japa|> [22:26] <planetmaker> <-- |Japa| you know that article(s)?
17:32:22 <|Japa|> yes
17:32:40 <|Japa|> that's what made me make a full adder gate
17:32:54 <planetmaker> I see :)
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17:43:08 <|Japa|> now I managed a full adder
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17:51:20 <ccfreak2k> Cool beans.
17:52:14 <dihedral> on toast?
17:59:17 <ccfreak2k> Reading him talking about making small logic gates makes me think "die shrink!"
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18:34:56 <fjb> Hello
18:36:09 <frosch123> moin :)
18:36:47 <dihedral> :-P
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18:42:12 <Wolf01> hello
18:43:00 <dihedral> oi
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18:48:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15289 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
18:48:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-28 18:48:19
18:48:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 3 fixed by planetmaker (3)
18:48:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 22 fixed by fanioz (22)
18:48:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 3 changed by darkttd (1), dlunch (2)
18:48:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 6 fixed by xaxa (6)
18:48:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 140 fixed, 4 changed by nars (144)
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18:59:26 <planetmaker> <-- Rubidium, reading this bug report, I think the guys have a point.
19:00:38 <Rubidium> so because you make a 64x64 station all tiles within a 82x82 square should yield subsidies?
19:00:49 <planetmaker> It's at least a bit confusing to have different things depending upon different "influence areas" of a station: within limits of a sign there, within the square(?) of the catchment area for delivery and nearest industry supplied....
19:00:55 <planetmaker> Rubidium: indeed, I think so.
19:00:59 <planetmaker> It's stupid.
19:01:13 <planetmaker> But no one is forced to play that way.
19:01:33 <Rubidium> they will
19:01:44 <planetmaker> I know. Their problem.
19:02:01 <Rubidium> and subsidies are pretty simple: station flag within 9 tiles of destination flag you get it, otherwise not
19:02:04 <dihedral> same as it is now
19:02:13 <dihedral> their problem :-)
19:02:17 <planetmaker> My argument is not to stop some fun-stoppers playing as they like, it's rather for the consistency of the rules OpenTTD works on.
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19:03:26 <planetmaker> What is the catchment area about, if there are two catchment areas? One station sign, one rectangle and then then another which supplies to the nearest industries to the station sign, if it comes to delivery?
19:03:53 <planetmaker> Three different concepts for acceptance, delivery and subsidy acceptance.
19:06:17 <frosch123> there is a fourth for acquireing cargo from industries
19:07:04 <planetmaker> he... :S
19:07:46 <planetmaker> In my eyes it would add to understandability of the rules to use in all places on function like IsInStationsReach(tile,station)
19:08:22 <planetmaker> s/on/one/
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19:17:10 <planetmaker> frosch123: what's the difference between "supplying" and "accepting" catchment areas?
19:17:38 <planetmaker> or "aquiring from industries" and "accepting"?
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19:18:19 <frosch123> he, I hope you don't expect a correct answer from me? but IIRC the supplying is more like a catchment area around the industry, where a station tile must be inside
19:19:00 <frosch123> i.e. accepting and supplying would only match when both the industry and the station are rectangular, and all industry tiles accept the cargo
19:19:27 <planetmaker> he... the latter seldom is true :)
19:19:30 <Wolf01> or reversing the sentence: the station catchement area should cover the industry tile which supplies the goods
19:20:12 <planetmaker> yeah. It doesn't help you, if you only provide service to the junk yard of a food plan. You need to service the front door :P
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19:24:03 <Wolf01> I should compliment with Yexo, the AdmiralAI is really challenging ;)
19:24:17 <Wolf01> or *compliment to
19:24:26 <Wolf01> I don't know the right one :P
19:25:21 <dihedral> just compliment Yexo ;-)
19:25:47 <Wolf01> good
19:27:53 <planetmaker> hm... having logged in to translators, I cannot get past the 2nd page (German language) when pressing the next button (using 'edit strings')
19:28:49 <Wolf01> does anyone has any Pinnacle system? I need help to configure my remote to use the computer (and maybe play OTTD :D)
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19:57:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r15290 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Isolate size and section of the UnMovable HQ object, in order to keep the Unmovable type free of any irrelevant data
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21:33:51 <el_en> ¿Dónde está el señor Bjarni?
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21:36:42 <dihedral> el_en, Bjarni is not around currently
21:36:55 <dihedral> @seen Bjarni
21:36:55 <DorpsGek> dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 7 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <Bjarni> hi Wolf01
21:37:57 <fjb> Maybe he kickbanned himself...
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21:52:09 * Wolf01 dies
21:52:12 <Wolf01> 'night
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22:43:10 <Nite_Owl> Hello all
22:43:55 <SmatZ> hello Nite Owl
22:44:09 <Nite_Owl> Hello SmatZ
22:45:44 <thingwath> (5884 more hellos for a complete graph)
22:46:51 <petern> do it
22:47:42 <SmatZ> 8-)
22:48:03 <SmatZ> thingwath: I think you are wrong
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22:48:25 <thingwath> it's possible
22:48:26 <SmatZ> both "A says hello to B" and "B says hello to A" cases occur
22:48:32 <SmatZ> so...
22:48:35 <thingwath> oh. you're right
22:48:39 <SmatZ> @calc 110 * 109
22:48:39 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: 11990
22:48:58 <SmatZ> -2 (me and Nite_Owl)
22:48:58 <petern> a directed graph, eh?
22:49:06 <SmatZ> yeah :)
22:50:10 <Nite_Owl> -3 you and me twice if you count the generalized "Hello all"
22:50:19 <SmatZ> hehe
22:50:38 <SmatZ> but there isn't anoone called "all" ...
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22:51:52 <Nite_Owl> true - but I did not capitalize it today like I did yesterday
22:52:10 <thingwath> so I still have to study -- for an graph algorithms exam, this friday...
22:52:27 <SmatZ> :o)
22:53:43 <Nite_Owl> <Yoda_Owl> long behind me are the days of study
22:53:49 <SmatZ> thingwath: if you prove P != NP (or P == NP) by friday, you don't have to care about that exam ;)
22:53:59 <thingwath> I already did.
22:54:05 <thingwath> But for another P and NP...
22:54:09 <SmatZ> hehehe
22:54:52 <thingwath> They are equal.
22:55:21 <SmatZ> which P and NP ?
22:56:52 <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: That's easy. You just have to prove that N=1.
22:57:14 <SmatZ> 8-)
22:57:20 <thingwath> :o)
22:57:31 <thingwath> see, they are both green, so they are equal.
22:58:20 <SmatZ> :-D
22:58:20 <Prof_Frink> Not all green things are equal.
22:58:25 <SmatZ> :-D
22:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> proof?
22:58:35 <thingwath> in our IS, they are. :-)
22:58:56 <Prof_Frink> Grass, for example, is not equal to kryptonite.
22:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> # Grün, ja grün sind alle meine Kleider
22:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> # Grün, ja grün ist alles, was ich hab
22:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> # darum lieb ich alles was so grün ist
22:59:50 * Prof_Frink hands Eddi|zuHause a nugget of purest green
23:00:17 <Eddi|zuHause> # weil mein Schatz... so viel Jägermeister säuft... :p
23:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a well known children's song:
23:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> basically you associate a colour with a job
23:01:52 <thingwath> if it's not "zelená", then it's allright.
23:02:34 <petern> soylent?
23:03:01 <Eddi|zuHause> that is usually not commonly known amongst children :p
23:03:07 <goodger> petern: blackadder 2
23:03:09 <goodger> or II, rather
23:03:10 <thingwath> peppermint liquor
23:03:50 <goodger> "what you have created, Percy, if it has a name, is some... Green."
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23:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the song goes basically like this: <colour> are all my dresses, <colour> is everything i have, why i like everything in <colour>, because my darling is a <job>
23:07:32 <SmatZ> you love your job?
23:07:36 <thingwath> which job matches black?
23:08:10 <Nite_Owl> undertaker
23:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> usual mapping is: green - hunter, blue - sailor, red - firefighter, white - baker, black - chimney sweeper, "coloured" - painter
23:08:45 <thingwath> chimney sweeper, hm, I hoped for something better
23:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, a chimney sweeper is a symbol for good luck
23:09:49 <thingwath> here it is too
23:10:20 <thingwath> but it isn't the right job for someone with acrophobia :)
23:10:39 * welshdragon spams openttd with
23:11:10 * glx look at the video before deciding what to do about welshdragon
23:11:56 <thingwath> it has "trains" in its name, it must be good!
23:14:09 <glx> ok just boring :)
23:14:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the line is not even electrified...
23:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and the trains are not even historic...
23:14:36 <glx> and the weather is not nice
23:14:52 <petern> yeah but there's 10 minutes of it
23:14:58 <thingwath> :)
23:15:15 <petern> welshdragon, tripod
23:16:11 <Prof_Frink> petern: That's not what I heard ;)
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23:16:41 <welshdragon> petern, fpr a mobile?
23:16:50 <welshdragon> *for
23:17:06 <welshdragon> glx, the weather gets better
23:17:06 <thingwath> especially for a mobile :)
23:17:34 <petern> yay, a 90
23:17:47 <petern> 1
23:17:49 <petern> :/
23:18:37 <welshdragon> petern, there's even 2 hst's slightly llater on
23:20:00 <petern> do not dirty the sound of a 43 departing by speaking over it
23:20:20 <petern> especially when you talk unintelligable crap
23:20:37 <welshdragon> ;o
23:22:04 <petern> crap framing on the second HST
23:22:29 <petern> nobody cares about the numbers :/
23:23:14 <welshdragon> oh, peoiple do
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23:23:49 <welshdragon> i blame the fact that the 220, 41 01 and 43 02 left 5 minutes after ecah other
23:24:06 <welshdragon> 43 01 even, argh
23:28:21 <petern>
23:28:22 <petern> hehe
23:28:25 <petern> looks silly :D
23:28:49 <Sacro> fugly bugger aint it
23:33:45 <welshdragon> the fuck?
23:34:43 <glx> what's behind the engine ?
23:36:15 <Progman> the tender? *g*
23:36:59 <Sacro> looks more like a brakevan
23:37:23 <glx> that's what I think, but I'm not sure
23:38:15 <goodger> ah, the 41
23:38:15 <goodger> it's actually almost the same as the 43, but with buffers and a slightly differently angled nose
23:38:17 <goodger> hi welshdragon
23:38:21 <goodger> looks like a brake van :P
23:38:25 <goodger> woop for separate diesel tank
23:38:29 <goodger> hrrm
23:38:29 <goodger> I said brake van! ¬.¬
23:38:33 <goodger> fortunately the majority of HSTs have now been refitted with bombardier engines from 220s
23:38:33 <goodger> the valentas were extremely painful
23:39:47 <Prof_Frink> Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeem bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwm
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23:40:56 <Sacro> i loved the valentas
23:41:01 <Sacro> very distinguishing tone
23:41:31 <goodger> nah
23:41:33 <goodger> oooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrnnnyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
23:41:33 <goodger> very very _very_ painful to stand next to
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23:47:23 <Prof_Frink> Yeah, but loud is good.
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