IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-25
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00:57:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15263 /trunk/ (11 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: added Engine::GetCost() to remove some code duplication.
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01:44:15 <ArmEagle> hmm, i have a double line(where at every intersection trains can choose the most empty one) going into a drop off station, and just before the station I have a separate entrance for pickup.
01:44:53 <ArmEagle> Even though the dropoff is the 'shorter' path, sometimes a train picks the pickup track (pickup trains are set to go trough there with a waypoint).
01:45:24 <ArmEagle> But since I have two separate lines going into the station I can't putup waypoints, unless I can tell trains to go trough either WP 1 or 2.
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01:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> in nightlies, you can use stations and "go via" orders
01:53:46 <ArmEagle> i guess I should just split this station up (pickup and dropoff are the same)..
01:53:56 <ArmEagle> that i hadn't thought of that obvious yet..
01:56:26 <Eddi|zuHause> go via orders are what makes this station work:,%2023.%20Maer%201942.png
01:56:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (the truck part)
01:56:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it has to be one station, because it is train<->truck transfer
01:57:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but the trucks should be separated by cargo type, because trucks of one cargo type might wait for a train load, and thus block off trucks of other cargo types
01:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so the trucks have orders like:
01:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> 1. go via "Gbf <cargo type>"
01:59:35 <ArmEagle> ohh drive trough stations..
01:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> 2. go to "Gbf"
01:59:44 <ArmEagle> fancy solution.
01:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> 3. go to target station
01:59:53 * Mortomes__ waves to ArmEagle
01:59:57 <ArmEagle> hah hi Mortomes__
02:00:23 <ArmEagle> now to try and find to option to allow mutliple stations next to each other..
02:00:55 <ArmEagle> hmm it is on, yet doesn't let me
02:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the settings window needs a search/filter option ;)
02:01:06 <Eddi|zuHause> press ctrl
02:01:26 <ArmEagle> Eddi|zuHause great, thanks i haven't played for a long time :)
02:01:32 <Mortomes__> Oh neat, I didn't know that
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02:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that feature is in for a week or so
02:02:05 <ArmEagle> hah it is? Right in time :)
02:02:23 <Mortomes> I've mostly been playing around with cargodest, it's neat
02:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know when cargodest was synched last time
02:03:29 <ArmEagle> oh wait.. that's why i had this station as a big one, else the other isn't close enough to the industry. but I'll just put a satellite point
02:03:35 <ArmEagle> hmm, cargodest?
02:03:46 <Mortomes> ArmEagle: Cargo with specific destinations
02:04:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ArmEagle: luckily, that is trivially easy now :p
02:04:56 <ArmEagle> Eddi|zuHause not if the local town doesn't like you..
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02:05:07 <ArmEagle> I hadn't even seen it at first, it's that small
02:05:19 <Mortomes> All the cargo routing and switching between trains is handled automatically
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02:07:58 <Mortomes> It makes passenger transport a lot more interesting
02:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodest makes me even more miss a shunting feature
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02:55:16 <welshdragon> grr
02:55:23 * welshdragon is trying to find a game
02:55:41 <welshdragon> where you plan transportation routes
02:57:48 <welshdragon> ah, Traffic Game :)
03:04:33 <RS-SM> hey all
03:04:50 <RS-SM> what is the fastest train on your current setups
03:06:29 <Nite_Owl> depends on which train set one is using
03:10:07 <RS-SM> I have the Type 700s
03:10:20 <RS-SM> ... they make more money than 747s cross country
03:12:31 <Nite_Owl> do you have a newgrf train set in use
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03:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i rarely even build a BR 05
03:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> although, the E 03 is very cool
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03:58:25 <Sacro> I sing into the microphone as the drummer plays along...
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04:04:49 <Eddi|zuHause> luckily, IRC does not transmit sound
04:06:57 <Sacro> indeed
04:07:02 <Sacro> though I can post the youtube link
04:07:04 <Sacro> i think
04:07:09 <Sacro> yes, it isn't in the topic now
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04:43:35 <RS-SM> yeah
04:43:44 <RS-SM> honestly the Type 700 is...
05:00:00 <kd5pbo> I'm trying to compile openttd under opensolaris.
05:00:04 <kd5pbo> I'm getting an error running configure.
05:00:33 <kd5pbo> awk: cmd. line:5: gsub("
05:00:37 <kd5pbo> awk: cmd. line:5: ^ unterminated string
05:01:04 <kd5pbo> Is this a known bug?
05:05:45 <FauxFaux> "Solaris' awk isn't gawk" sounds like a bug you shuold file against solaris to me.
05:06:58 <kd5pbo> Opensolaris awk is gawk, according to awk --version.
05:07:42 <Sacro> hmm
05:07:58 <Sacro> I don't think there is an official opensolaris dev
05:08:01 <kd5pbo> Ah, found something else.
05:08:03 * Sacro might have to install it some time
05:08:03 <kd5pbo> ./configure[73]: : cannot execute [Is a directory]
05:08:18 <Sacro> kd5pbo: what version?
05:08:46 <kd5pbo> Of awk or opensolaris?
05:11:22 <kd5pbo> I have version 3.1.5 of gawk.
05:22:22 <kd5pbo> SRCS="`< $ROOT_DIR/source.list tr '\r' '\n' | $awk '
05:22:35 <kd5pbo> What does the < do in this line?
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05:47:12 <kd5pbo> I've gotten configure working now
05:47:14 <kd5pbo> The problem wasn't awk/gawk.
05:48:15 <kd5pbo> I changed a couple of ``'s to $()'s and used cat and a pipe instead of the <.
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05:55:49 <Sacro> kd5pbo: submit a patch to the developers
05:55:55 <kd5pbo> Now ld is complaining that crt1.o is referencing main, which isn't defined.
05:55:57 <kd5pbo> Will do.
05:56:19 <kd5pbo> Well, Will do after I make sure it worked.
05:56:52 <Sacro> hehe
05:58:09 <kd5pbo> On the other hand, I'm using sun's ld.
05:58:34 <kd5pbo> Opensolaris ships with gcc and gld, but gld isn't the default linker.
06:02:25 <Sacro> hmm
06:05:36 <kd5pbo> gld doesn't work either.
06:06:46 <kd5pbo> Is there a pastebin somewhere?
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07:43:45 <vraa_> .
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08:17:53 <Wolf01> morning
08:24:14 <Alberth> good morning Wolf01
08:35:52 <planetmaker> good morning
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09:04:06 <petern> kd5pbo|away: yeah,
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09:38:06 <petern> hmm
09:38:20 <petern> my game keeps locking up for a second
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10:20:27 <Roest> morning
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10:39:40 <Alberth> Roest: good morning
10:41:17 <Roest> ah someone is alive, how's going
10:42:50 <Alberth> quite nicely, having another go at more flexible widgets
10:43:42 <Alberth> how are you doing? Haven't seen you a while.
10:43:48 <Roest> i finally finished my thesis and have time for other stuff again
10:44:04 <Roest> besides learnign for the final test
10:44:12 <Alberth> congratulations
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10:45:05 <Roest> yea it's pretty good, i already got a job at the local max planck institute here, depending on passing that final tets of course
10:45:57 <Roest> so i saw there was another go at the cargo dest and it also kinda died again?
10:48:34 <Alberth> Celestar and petern made a new cargo dest branch, it worked quite nicely actually, except for various balancing issues. It is scheduled for inclusion in 0.7. not sure about current development though.
10:49:19 <Alberth> We also have the NoAI branch in trunk, and in-game downloading of new goodies such as GRF files and AI scripts
10:49:35 <Roest> cool
10:51:38 <Alberth> last but not least, we have mercurial mirrors of the repository, very nice for patch development
10:52:08 <Alberth> (oh and all branches as well, such as the cargo dest branch
10:52:11 <Roest> man i'm glad i finally understand svn good enough to work with that
10:52:49 <Alberth> mercurial is a distributed VCS, so you can do local commits.
10:53:10 <Roest> didnt you guys also try git for a while
10:53:11 <Alberth> it also has support for making sequences of patches
10:54:52 <Roest> hmm the newgrf window is still the same :/
10:55:07 <Alberth> I have never tried git. but yes that exists as well (
10:55:24 <Alberth> yeah, don't know the state of your patch
10:55:40 <Roest> guess i hasnt been updatet since i left
10:55:59 <Alberth> oh boy
10:56:20 <Roest> think i left in the middle of the gui transition phase
10:56:37 <Roest> so that new newgrf window wass still on old code
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10:58:50 <Aali> there's a newgrf gui patch
10:59:06 <Aali> let me find the FS task
11:00:15 <Aali>
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11:00:57 <Aali> not sure why it's not in trunk, it's infinitely better than the old one
11:01:40 <Roest> the main argument why the old one i was updating didn't go into trunk was that it didn't fit into some smal screen resolution
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11:03:45 <Alberth> Hmm, I can see why that would be a problem
11:04:39 <Alberth> Why does it have 2 lists of newgrf files?
11:04:39 <Aali> the new one can be resized to be absurdly small
11:05:00 <Aali> of course, it's not very useful that way, but then again the old one was never useful
11:05:36 <Aali> Alberth: one lists the GRFs you can choose from, the other which you have chosen
11:06:10 <Roest> well i was thinking about it, think when i have time i try it out, it would be one list with checkboxes
11:06:11 <planetmaker> Aali: I just toyed with the newgrf layout. Checkout the latest patch submitted to that task
11:06:15 <Alberth> so what's against having 'selected' boxes in front of the grfs?
11:06:42 <Roest> hey pm
11:06:54 <planetmaker> Alberth: 5 selected of 200? Not very usefull to see what you have selected. Also order is an issue.
11:06:58 <planetmaker> hey Roest :)
11:07:33 <Roest> well for the 5 out of 200 problem you could have filters
11:07:35 <Alberth> we'd need some filter buttons
11:07:41 <Aali> yeah, load order of some GRFs really matter
11:07:43 <Roest> sorting is an issue tho
11:07:52 <planetmaker> Alberth: still. You need a seperate view for those which you have.
11:07:54 <Alberth> Roest: don't type just a tad faster than me :)
11:08:00 <planetmaker> because the order matters.
11:08:32 <planetmaker> having filters, of course, will be nice :)
11:08:38 <planetmaker> Care to add some? ;)
11:08:51 <Rubidium> where to filter on? GRF ID?
11:08:51 <Alberth> we can have up/down buttons for swapping selected grf files
11:09:23 <planetmaker> Alberth: still not usefull to combine IMO. Because you mostly want sorting different for applied and unselected.
11:09:25 <Roest> no if oyu have one single list with checkboxes you would filter selected/unselected
11:09:26 <Alberth> Rubidium: loaded grf files in a long list of available ones
11:09:36 <Roest> ha again faster
11:09:40 <planetmaker> :D
11:10:56 <planetmaker> But it's difficult to apply two sorting schemes to the list at the same time...
11:11:03 <Alberth> ok, 2 views to toggle between, one for loaded and one for unselected
11:11:06 <planetmaker> overview of what you have vs. "trains only"
11:11:18 <planetmaker> Alberth: that's what you currently have
11:11:37 <Alberth> iirc, we currently have 2 windows
11:11:49 <planetmaker> yeah. The same as one window with alternate content
11:12:33 <Roest> well selected ones stay in the source window so it's not exactly the same
11:12:54 <planetmaker> Rubidium: do grfs have anything like tags?
11:13:03 <planetmaker> I mean: are the tags on bananas downloaded, too?
11:13:20 <Rubidium> GRFs don't have tags
11:13:37 <Rubidium> well... unless you count the GRF ID and/or GRF version as a tag
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11:14:40 <planetmaker> hm, that's not really useful
11:15:20 <planetmaker> hm... wasn't there a string which contains tags? Or was it only AIs?
11:16:28 <planetmaker> despite that: I had a look at small sizes of the newgrf gui patch and did a few changes :)
11:16:40 <planetmaker> Maybe you're interested enough in it to look at it sometime
11:18:27 <Alberth> what if we add an index number to loaded grfs?
11:19:26 <planetmaker> in order to achieve what?
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11:20:41 <planetmaker> you mean different categories = different index? Or...?
11:22:11 <Alberth> to represent the load order of grf files amongst non-loaded grfs
11:22:53 <planetmaker> uh... that's hard to order then.
11:23:36 <Alberth> well, then you first switch to loaded-only view (and that view may use another sort criterium)
11:23:53 <planetmaker> though possibly with a button show all / show selected
11:24:21 <Alberth> something like that indeed
11:25:31 * planetmaker ponders
11:25:57 * Alberth makes coffee
11:26:20 * Roest plants coffee tree
11:27:17 <planetmaker> As there is anyway currently no good sorting of the newgrf files (other than name) one could just as well forgo sorting of the filelist and allow moving them up and down in order to accomodate order for applied newgrfs
11:28:16 <Roest> didn't i do a switch between name and filename and you could sort by that, i think that worked pretty well since you put them in categories anway
11:29:24 <planetmaker> hm... I haven's seen that switch :) But that might work
11:29:33 <Rubidium> how well does a filename/directory sort work with e.g. openttdcoop grf pack 7.3 and openttdcoop legacy 'diff packs'?
11:29:36 <planetmaker> but not with downloaded content
11:30:03 <planetmaker> nor with legacy. But legacy is nothing which you should add to new games anyway ;)
11:30:32 <Rubidium> still... don't expect people to remove them because they don't need them for new games
11:31:24 <planetmaker> I don't :) I don't do myself :)
11:32:36 <Rubidium> so with sorting on filename you're likely to end up with a larger mess and unfindable GRFs than with sorting on the name in the GRF themselves
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11:33:06 <planetmaker> as it's done now...
11:33:37 <Rubidium> you could ofcourse propose adding some tags to the newgrfs, but don't expect that to be an immediate resolution to your problem
11:34:16 <planetmaker> definitely it won't :) But it might work in conjunction with bananas slowly, but steadily.
11:34:35 <planetmaker> Anything w/o tags is then sorted into an unsorted or misc category
11:34:45 <Roest> excuse my ignorance, whats bananas, besides yellow curved fruits
11:35:02 <Rubidium> bananas won't change the GRFs
11:35:10 <Alberth> Roest: ingame downloading goodies
11:35:33 <planetmaker> :)
11:36:10 <planetmaker> Rubidium: no, that's not what I want. But it might be possible to supply an additional small text file inside the tar
11:36:20 <Alberth> planetmaker: tags seems something the next generation to me
11:36:37 <Alberth> planetmaker: seperate files get lost
11:36:49 <planetmaker> Alberth: not inside the tars
11:37:38 <planetmaker> alternatively, one could save user-defined tags inside openttd.cfg just like newgrf presets
11:37:55 <planetmaker> and offer them as sorting criterion
11:37:56 <Rubidium> then you'll quickly get desyncs between the tags in the tar and the tags in bananas (as tags are changed/updated and tars won't be)
11:38:06 <Alberth> people will copy grf files without the tags, etc
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11:38:44 <planetmaker> Rubidium: even so. It's only the sorting of older grfs which are in other categories than newer.
11:38:55 <planetmaker> but may be source of confusion, yes
11:39:16 <planetmaker> what about user-defined tags?
11:39:46 <Alberth> how am i to know what tags x.grf should get?
11:41:12 <planetmaker> Alberth: my personal choice. Just like presets
11:41:58 <Rubidium> how to merge the tag data from multiple coop legacy packs?
11:42:29 <planetmaker> we don't have tags yet...
11:42:50 <planetmaker> but I would allow only one file.
11:43:12 <planetmaker> either as new section in openttd.cfg or like newgrf_tags.cfg
11:43:39 <Rubidium> so... whom's tags get precedence?
11:43:56 <Rubidium> should people manually copy parts of the coop tags file to their own config file?
11:44:30 <planetmaker> maybe one could make something like "import tags file" with options "retain old info" / "overwrite old info"
11:44:55 <planetmaker> retain / overwrite working on a grf name basis
11:45:23 <Rubidium> splitting tag info from the newgrf does not work
11:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> why would merging of tags be a problem, if it was a .cfg file?
11:45:40 <Eddi|zuHause> [tags]
11:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> dbsetxlw.grf="train"
11:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> other file:
11:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> [tags]
11:46:00 <Alberth> you'd get one with each grf
11:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> dbsetxlw.grf="mb"
11:46:13 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that's what I'm saying. But when another comes with dbsetxlw.grf="vehicles"?
11:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> each grf can have multiple tags
11:46:33 <Eddi|zuHause> just merge the sets
11:46:33 <planetmaker> or that.
11:46:41 <planetmaker> probably best.
11:46:51 <Eddi|zuHause> tags are useless if you could not have multiple
11:47:02 <planetmaker> Rubidium: why couldn't tag information as described by Eddi|zuHause kept in the cfg, seperate of the grfs?
11:47:18 <Rubidium> planetmaker: what 'the cfg'?
11:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause> something similar to the .obg files?
11:48:06 <Rubidium> you mean we should search the data directories for yet another file type and reading them?
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11:48:42 <Rubidium> and the data is ONLY going to be lost
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11:48:48 <Rubidium> or improperly copied
11:48:50 <Rubidium> or corrupted
11:48:53 <Rubidium> or whatever
11:49:10 <Rubidium> and WE get bug reports about that searching for "trains" doesn't work
11:49:23 <Rubidium> because someone forget to give him the appropriate file with tags
11:49:49 <planetmaker> Rubidium: no, no
11:50:02 <planetmaker> A new entry category in openttd.cfg
11:50:19 <planetmaker> with lines very much like in the section [presets]
11:50:24 <Rubidium> so people MUST MANUALLY MERGE openttd.cfgs from everywhere?
11:50:26 <Alberth> planetmaker: openttd.cfg is generated by openttd the first time, and never distributed
11:50:41 <Rubidium> just to get the fracking tags?
11:50:50 <Rubidium> and just to forget to merge it one time
11:50:58 <Rubidium> and then filing bugreports that the tags don't work
11:51:09 <Rubidium> just because they failed to properly manage the tags?
11:51:10 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I though of a user editable thing very much like the grfpresets.
11:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, that discussion is going into the wrong direction
11:51:25 <planetmaker> Then you certainly have a point with users stupidity... :)
11:52:16 <Rubidium> (some) users are more stupid than stupid, so imagine how stupid you can be and multiply that stupidness. If the system is still fool proof it's okay, otherwise it's a waste of resources
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11:53:17 <planetmaker> my idea is to give the user the possibility to somehow "rate" the grfs (only them) Import is then something else
11:53:30 <planetmaker> this rating can be done by tags - or categories
11:53:48 <planetmaker> So, external import is a 2nd step - which might work over tags supplied by bananas
11:53:54 <planetmaker> but not now.
11:53:58 <Rubidium> and when it involves doing ANYTHING but downloading a single file or starting OpenTTD it won't work
11:55:07 <Rubidium> adding something without the data immediatelly is going to cause problems; see the whole tram issue with people not being able to load the supplied newgrf. Did that once, not going to repeat that.
11:55:32 <Roest> is anyone here compiling with vs2008?
11:55:49 <planetmaker> ok
11:56:01 <planetmaker> point taken
11:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well, the only other option would be to hardcode the tags into the newgrf files. but that would make it not user-editable, not possible to extend to old grfs, and not synchronised between grf authors
12:00:06 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: the latter is easily solved by having a pre-defined set of tags in the newGrf definition
12:00:30 <petern> or parsing the grf
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12:00:37 <petern> for features
12:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause> in the end, there must be some kind of filtering in the newgrf window. it will only get MORE grfs, not less
12:01:01 <planetmaker> he, yeah
12:01:07 <Elukka> i have no idea what you were talking about but i say yes to that
12:01:10 <petern> trains, rvs, ships, aircraft, stations....
12:01:14 <planetmaker> rm -rf ~/.openttd/data ;)
12:01:18 <petern> wouldn't let you filter on "mb" though
12:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but "mb" appears in the grf-id ;)
12:01:32 <Elukka> ships... speaking of
12:01:33 <petern> hehe
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12:01:38 <Elukka> is there any ECS compatible ship set?
12:01:42 <planetmaker> yes
12:01:46 <planetmaker> newships by mb
12:01:49 <petern> newshipsxl!
12:01:50 <petern> oh wait :/
12:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: there is a 2cc-ship set
12:01:54 <Elukka> hmm
12:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i think
12:02:15 <Elukka> to the googlemobile
12:02:53 <petern> or a 'tag content service' hehe
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12:03:37 <planetmaker> which wouldn't be bad
12:04:13 <petern> bit overkill
12:04:31 <Alberth> and you get a keep-up-to-date problem
12:04:46 <planetmaker> imagine a scenario designer: use only grfs which anyone easily can obtain, petern
12:07:09 <Eddi|zuHause> above question is also something which could be addressed with tags... is there "XYZ" set which goes with ECS?
12:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> just tag every compatible set with "ECS"
12:07:40 <Elukka> 2cc ship set doesnt seem to be available yet
12:07:49 <Elukka> i dont think newships supports new industries
12:08:27 <Roest> hmm do i really need dxguid.lib?
12:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> newships supports newindustries, but only the original grf from mb, not the complete ECS scheme
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12:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but afaik there is a newships_ecs extension, similar to the dbset extension
12:09:22 <Elukka> hey, it does support ECS!
12:09:48 <Elukka> i'm surprised how few ship sets there are
12:10:31 <petern> Roest: you can compile with sdl, but you need to modify bits to make that work with msvc
12:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: that's because ship sets were very limited because of the low number of ship-ids
12:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so it wasn't interesting for set designers
12:13:28 <Elukka> does were mean they arent so limited any more?
12:13:52 <planetmaker> yes. In Openttd there're no limits ;)
12:13:57 <planetmaker> well... much higher now :)
12:14:10 <Elukka> i should try to learn to make grfs..
12:14:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the über-evil newgrf kill feature, otherwise known as "multipool"
12:16:23 <Roest> petern: it works, i just had to remove the use dx music preprocessor directive and that lib entry
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12:22:40 <Roest> btw for printing the svn revision in the about dialog, how do you do it for the global revision, i only found out how to do it for a file but that revision doesn't necessarily change
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12:23:45 <Vikthor> Roest: svn info
12:23:49 <Alberth> Roest: ask revision of / (or /trunk)
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12:24:32 <Alberth> (after svn up)
12:25:10 <Elukka> hmm...
12:25:24 <Elukka> i wonder if i could model stuff in sketchup, then export to blender, then do stuff...
12:25:31 <Elukka> because sketchup is ridiculously easy
12:25:50 <Roest> hmm was using the $Revision$ variable
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12:27:54 <Alberth> Roest: see in root of OpenTTD sources
12:29:09 <Elukka> hmm... the road system from the pathzilla ai looks like it would be excellent for road networks in the map generation phase
12:29:15 <Elukka> it always bugged me there were no road networks
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12:41:52 <petern> or rivers
12:41:53 <petern> or canals
12:42:22 <Roest> or pizza delivery services
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12:44:50 <Alberth> somebody is working on a supermarket, that's a start
12:45:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15264 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [Squirrel] -Cleanup: we no longer use the Suspend stuff we once introduced in Squirrel, which assumed threads (which NoAI no longer uses)
12:48:54 <petern> there's a supermarket in the original graphics
12:49:07 <petern> it doesn't do anything special though
12:52:46 <Elukka> it also looks like a greenhouse
12:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the most weird buildings that got introduced with TTD
12:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it wasn't in TTO
12:54:18 <Elukka> i never played TTO
12:54:22 <Elukka> and i played very little TTD
12:54:28 <Elukka> because then i found openttd
12:55:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i played TTO basically until i had internet... which was somewhere around 2001/02
12:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause> where i found TTDPatch
12:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> 1.6 or something
12:56:09 <Elukka> i dont recall when i began playing
12:56:36 <Elukka> i do remember that there were no newstations support and a lot of grfs for various things werent supported yet
12:56:40 <petern> i have TTO somewhere
12:56:43 <Elukka> like industries
12:57:14 <petern> Elukka: that could've been a year ago :p
12:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i played TTO Demo around 1993 or something
12:57:20 * petern nods
12:57:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15265 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (7 files in 3 dirs): [Squirrel] -Update: updated to Squirrel 2.2.2
12:57:40 <yorick> how am I supposed to set different sound effects for helicopters? :p
12:57:49 <Elukka> i think it was 0.4x or 0.5 something
12:57:56 <Elukka> not that long ago
12:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> my brother then bougt TTO for a horribly inflated price
12:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> he paid like 120DM (~60€)
12:58:35 <Elukka> 1993...
12:58:50 <Elukka> i was one
12:59:13 <Roest> %$%/&/%$
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12:59:43 <petern> hmm, i remember when doom came out
12:59:45 <Eddi|zuHause> later the world editor expansion also cost 25DM
12:59:49 <petern> that was exciting stuff
13:00:20 <Roest> we downloaded the doom demo the day it came out and played it in a lab with 386 comps
13:00:34 <Eddi|zuHause> must be a big lab :p
13:00:49 <Roest> :P
13:01:11 <Roest> and it was exciting
13:01:19 <petern> hmm, i remember having doom, but i don't remember where i got it from. don't think i bought it :p
13:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> TTO was one of the few games i actually bought
13:01:44 <petern> it didn't run too well on the 368sx-16 we had
13:01:49 <petern> yeah, i bought TTO
13:01:55 <Roest> i think id never really did copy protection until like q3 with the serial
13:01:58 <petern> i did buy doom later, heh
13:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of games had some kind of "copy protection"
13:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> usually typing in stuff only to be found in the manual
13:03:01 <petern> type the word in from the manual
13:04:00 <Eddi|zuHause> this disk from monkey island, where you could assemble the pirate faces was cool :)
13:04:02 <frosch123> we should also do that for ottd: type the paragraph about "transfer orders" to activate the game :p
13:04:24 <petern> hmm, grand prix unlimited had a wheel
13:05:00 <frosch123> or: type 100 times: 'I shall not change newgrfs ingame'
13:05:20 <yorick> then why not just remove feature that allows you?
13:05:25 <petern>
13:05:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember Zak McKracken, where you had huge tables of symbols
13:05:32 <petern> ^ not the most realistic GP simulation...
13:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> give that to Belugas ;)
13:06:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15266 /trunk/src/thread_none.cpp: -Fix (r15159): compilation without threads was broken
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13:09:30 <Aali> seriously though, maybe you should remind users to change their name to something other than 'Player' when they try to join a MP game
13:09:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15267 /3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/ (sqvm.cpp sqvm.h): [Squirrel] -Cleanup: two very minor final things to make us closed to Squirrel source
13:10:48 <petern> why?
13:11:00 <Eddi|zuHause> default the player name to the username on first start
13:11:06 <petern> closed? :o
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13:11:48 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: then people will join with nick "Administrator" instead of "Player" :-P
13:11:52 <Aali> having a server full of Player, Player #1, Player #2 isn't very nice
13:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: yes, but way fewer
13:12:22 <Aali> yeah, username doesn't help at all
13:12:30 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: you'd be surprised
13:12:42 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'd not care...
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13:12:59 <yorick> now who translated "manually" with "handleiding" in the dutch translation :/
13:13:23 <Roest> was me sorry
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13:20:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15268 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: AIEventVehicleLost triggered at every pbs signal independent of the vehicle being lost.
13:20:39 <el_en> doesn't sound funny enough to be dutch, true.
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13:40:03 <petern> hm
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13:45:59 <petern> how can 5 * 5 = 35?
13:46:14 <Elukka> D:
13:46:17 <Roest> inflation
13:46:17 <Elukka> divide by zero!
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13:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's a derivate of 6*9=42?
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13:48:26 <Elukka> you're reminding me of this maths exam i have tomorrow and am supposed to be studying for :/
13:48:50 <Roest> studying is for the weak
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14:03:57 <Zuu> Roest: Only works the first half of a course, the second half study is all 7 days.
14:04:31 <frosch123> depends on the course :p
14:04:54 <Elukka> i have geometry now
14:05:13 <Zuu> Maybe if you read culture analysis or something like that you don't need to study so hard... :)
14:05:22 <Elukka> next up, analytic geometry
14:05:23 <Elukka> then vectors
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14:23:46 <Zahl> if anyone here likes settlers 2, you might be interested in this: :-)
14:24:42 <Elukka> heh... settlers 4 was my first game that i really played online
14:25:00 <Zahl> i just loved this game when it came out
14:25:18 <Zahl> i was as addicted to it as to ttd
14:25:28 <Zahl> just two games that are totally awesome :-D
14:25:35 <Zuu> My first computer based settlers was settelers 3, but was really good.
14:26:26 <Zahl> well, i liked that you had to build streets in settlers 2, so settlers 3 war a bit disappointing :-D
14:26:41 <Zahl> its trainsport tycoon with people ^^
14:26:46 <Zuu> I can imagne, never played settlers 2.
14:27:09 <thingwath> is this somehow related to widelands?
14:27:15 <Zahl> nope
14:27:35 <Zahl> this project needs files from the original game, just like ottd
14:27:50 <Zuu> Settlers 5 was the real disappointment for me.. but then I didn't play much anymore anyways..
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14:31:48 <Zahl> gameplay:
14:35:28 <Zuu> Nice :)
14:36:21 <Aali> oh man
14:36:29 <Aali> settlers 2 was the bomb
14:36:36 <Aali> Zahl: thank you for this :P
14:36:49 * frosch123 preferred settlers 1
14:37:04 <Zahl> settlers 1 was nice too
14:37:20 <Zahl> 2 was an improvement
14:37:25 <Zahl> 3 didn't have streets :-D
14:37:50 <Zuu> But they had paths.
14:38:03 <Zahl> they were built automatically
14:38:13 <Zahl> so you didn't have to think
14:38:22 <Zahl> its like airplanes in ttd...
14:38:30 <Zuu> looking on the video it looks like the streets in #2 is also automatically bulit.
14:38:52 <Zahl> nope, you had connect the flags
14:38:55 <Elukka> unrelated, but i've gotten 4 real life friends to play ottd :D
14:38:59 <Elukka> it's much more fun online
14:39:00 <Zahl> +to
14:39:10 <Zuu> Not automatic in the same way but, still you didn't told where the roads should be built explicit.
14:39:10 <Zahl> well i'm also playing s2 online ;)
14:39:31 <frosch123> I liked building streets in settlers 1, which was quite challenging because the mines and farms produced so much. settlers 2 produced less and transported faster. so that challenge was removed
14:39:33 <Zahl> Zuu: well you had to choose start point and end point
14:39:41 <Zahl> and you also could build them completely on your own
14:39:46 <Zuu> Okay
14:40:01 <Zahl> frosch123: but the world was much larger in s2
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14:40:57 <frosch123> what? the size of settlers 1 world depends on your ram size. the largest map feeled like ottd 2048x2048 :p
14:41:12 <Zahl> o.O
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14:41:50 <Zahl> i only played it on the amiga and there they were pretty small as far as i can remember
14:42:27 <Zuu> I like how enemy buildings are set into fire in s2 :)
14:45:10 <Roest> ok question: i have an old scenario, i load it in the editor, fixed all the grfs, now when i start to play it and unpause it it tells me grfs are missing and it may crash, all the grf in the list are green tho
14:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i do actually have settlers and settlers 2 still on my HD...
14:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause> settlers 1 supported really large maps
14:50:33 <Roest> do you ever delete stuff?
14:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause> not if i can help it ;)
14:51:52 <Roest> anyway you're only a rl s1 player if you played it on an amiga :P
14:52:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hey. the real adventure was to actually get it running under DOS...
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14:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that was the game where i had the biggest problems getting it to run
14:53:50 <Zahl> heh yeah, deleting things sucks, Eddi|zuHause :-D
14:54:08 <Roest> hmm now the yapp is in trunk is there an option to just use it or do i have to activate the signal menu and just choose a signal from the
14:54:12 <Zahl> when i discovered that project a while ago i also still had an s2 installation on my disk
14:54:27 <thingwath> not really, there are so many things I would like to delete
14:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember that i had big graphics problems with Siedler 1
14:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> and even with a boot disk it only started 50% of the times
14:55:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it worked better under windows (3.1), but saving the game was broken there
14:57:11 <Eddi|zuHause> weee... i still have my siedler 1 manual
14:58:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but the CD is not in the box...
14:58:27 <thingwath> Could settlers 1 be played by two people split-screen?
14:58:47 <frosch123> on novel dos (flame me), it worked only with himem, not with emm
14:59:01 <Zahl> thingwath: yep
14:59:05 <frosch123> thingwath: yes, with second mouse, was hell to configure
14:59:18 <Zahl> with s2 it was a bit easier
14:59:42 <Alberth> Roest the signal GUI is one way, under 'advanced settings'->Construction->Signals, you can configure how clicking with signals works
15:00:06 <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: yes, if you had 2 mice
15:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: weird, i had novell dos, too ;)
15:00:43 <thingwath> I only remember doing this with settlers 2/.
15:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause> also, you hardly saw anything with a split screen at resolution 320x200
15:01:27 <Zahl> you saw a couple of pixels :D
15:01:36 <thingwath> depends
15:01:37 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: so you also had those problems with all those software that complained about not finding mscdex, as it was nwcdex :p
15:02:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i had no CD drive for quite a long time
15:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i had a drive, but no free IDE port
15:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, there were occasionally problems with that
15:04:49 <el_en>
15:08:02 <petern> hurr
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15:16:35 <Roujin> hi guys
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15:25:07 <Zuu> Hi Roujin
15:25:35 <Roujin> ah zuu, you're the authour of the filter sign list patch, right?
15:25:43 <Zuu> Yep
15:26:32 <Zuu> Any questions regarding it?
15:26:40 <Roujin> I'm currentling persuing a different approach at filtering lists.. a lower level one, introducing a new Filter class to use alongside the GUIList
15:27:35 <Zuu> Okay, that I have though about, but though that the filters would differ to much between different windows.
15:28:14 <Roujin> yes, but with what I am trying to do you can (and actually have to) provide the filter your own filtering function
15:28:28 <Roujin> similar to how sorting of GUILists is handled
15:30:22 <Zuu> It is probably a good movement with increased number of filters. My filter will be a tinny bit slower, but probably not noticalble even if it would become 10 or 100 times slower.
15:30:44 <petern> Roujin, do it
15:31:08 <Roujin> petern: I'm at it :)
15:31:20 <petern> hmm
15:31:24 * petern mumbles at curves
15:31:34 <petern> shorter wagons = curves vary in lenght
15:31:36 <petern> *length
15:31:56 <petern> this should be done better
15:32:02 <petern> preferably in advance...
15:32:11 <Roujin> currently I decided to go away from the idea of making a subclass of GUIList, GUIFilterList, but rather make a class named GUIListFilter that gets the GUIList it is supposed to filter on passed as an argument
15:32:29 <petern> just add filtering to GUIList?
15:32:44 <Roujin> should I?
15:33:01 <Zuu> With a default Fillter() {} function.
15:33:19 <Zuu> So if you don't override it it don't filter anything.
15:33:20 <Roujin> I supposed I should rather make a new class instead of altering one that is heavily used all through the game
15:35:22 <Zuu> Depends a bit on if you need to change all places which uses it or not I think.
15:35:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15269 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: reduced indentation in CmdBuildRail*
15:36:07 <petern> glx is code duffing
15:36:51 <glx> well I notice it while doing my last changes (which were needed for noai)
15:37:15 <Roujin> ?
15:37:41 <Roujin> what is code duffing?
15:38:40 <Rubidium> making code drunk?
15:38:52 <petern> return early, functionise, along with a few other methods
15:39:10 <petern> a few tweaks and you can reduce unnecessary indentation or code duplication
15:39:24 <Roujin> aah okay ;) didn't know that expression
15:40:29 <Roujin> maybe this expression is an invention by you? because the only google hit I get for "code duffing" is a post by you on the openttd flyspray :D
15:41:08 <FauxFaux> I'm totally going to use that at work. (return mid-block is against style)
15:41:22 <petern> r5062 :o
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15:42:38 <Roujin> yup ^^
15:45:10 <Roujin> the question i am facing with my filter-capable list is where to store the items that are currently filtered out
15:46:24 <Roujin> I was thinking about having two second small-vector, and then one contains all items, and the other contains only the items that should be displayed with the currently applied filter
15:46:54 <Roujin> *having a second small-vector
15:48:31 <Roujin> or does someone have a better idea?
15:48:46 <frosch123> how do you want to combine that with sorting the list?
15:48:59 <Roujin> sorting is done on the complete list
15:49:18 <frosch123> and when changing the sorting-method while they are filtered?
15:51:05 <petern> Roujin: do you need to?
15:51:11 <petern> couldn't the list just be rebuilt?
15:51:11 <Roujin> then the complete list is sorted first, and after that the filtered list is created again from the complete list using the filter function... I'd say
15:51:55 <petern> they don't take a lot of time to rebuild
15:52:02 <petern> it's just you don't want to be doing it every tick
15:52:02 <Roujin> hmm
15:52:45 <petern> kudr (i think it was) removed the caching once as it was a 'minor' performance improvement
15:53:01 <glx> maybe a show/hide flag for the items
15:53:09 <petern> yeah
15:53:11 <petern> that would work
15:53:19 <petern> sorting can work exactly as normal
15:54:34 <Roujin> problem is how the GUIList is currently used everywhere in the code..
15:54:40 <petern> "-Codechange: Reinstate caching of sorted purchase list. Dropping from 9m to 1.5m cycles for a redraw of a full list is not frivolous.
15:54:43 <petern> "
15:54:46 <petern> hehe
15:55:01 <petern> Roujin: how is it a problem?
15:56:36 <Roujin> well, the GUIList is currently a derived class of SmallVector, so windows that use a GUIList just iterate over the list like this: for (ConstContentIterator iter = this->content.Begin(); iter != this->content.End(); iter++)
15:56:54 <Roujin> where content is the GUIList
15:57:01 <Eddi|zuHause> <petern> shorter wagons = curves vary in lenght <- really, i think curves and slopes should be determined independent from the train length
15:57:24 <glx> Roujin: and?
15:57:29 <petern> Eddi|zuHause: obviously. i was stating how it works currently
15:57:56 <petern> "- removed unnecessary "optimization" (rebuild and sort engine list on each WE_P
15:58:00 <petern> AINT)"
15:58:02 <petern> hehe
15:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause> problem i can see with "static" curve handling is switches...
15:59:14 <petern> whatever happened to 'look-ahead' with pbs... hmm
15:59:34 <Roujin> glx: well for the flags idea I guess I'd have to make a little struct containing the item itself and its flag (show/don't show) and then use a SmallVector of this struct instead of the desired item itself
15:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly railtypes could have a property "main speed" and "branch speed", branch speed is taken when on a tile with multiple track bits, and a curve is in the path
16:00:07 <Zuu> Roujin: In bulid sign list function, for each entry call the filter-function, and ask it if the item should be added or not.
16:00:17 <Eddi|zuHause> standard tracks could then have something like 100km/h main speed, and 40km/h branch speed
16:00:23 <Zuu> (item == entry)
16:00:31 <Eddi|zuHause> high speed tracks could have different values, but insanely more expensive switches
16:01:12 <NukeBuster> any msvc users here?
16:01:24 <Zuu> what is the question?
16:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> no.
16:01:32 <Roujin> Zuu: I'd rather not do this, but apply the filter once to the whole list, and only when the filter changes (or is enabled/disabled), not everytime I want to get some item out of the list
16:02:02 <thingwath> with current openttd economy there is nothing like 'expensive', eventually, you can afford anything :)
16:02:13 <Zuu> Hmm, reading from the list shouldn't require it to be rebuilt.
16:02:21 <Zuu> Only when data changes.
16:03:04 <Roujin> Zuu: uhm, I think we are talking about different things.. you're specific about the sign list, right?
16:03:11 <glx> NukeBuster: just ask :)
16:03:11 <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: that's a different balancing issue, and i did propose a solution for that
16:03:23 <NukeBuster> I was doing a private msg.
16:03:27 <Zuu> Roujin: The sign list is the only list I've used specificly with.
16:03:27 <NukeBuster> but i'll ask here
16:03:37 <Zuu> And that one is only rebulit when data changes.
16:03:42 <NukeBuster> The issue is I have a plugins file which i like to be configured by cmake to set the right values. I want to know if msvc can do the same?
16:03:52 <Roujin> ah yes, but I want to do something generic that can then be used on any GUIList
16:03:52 <Rubidium> thingwath: in any game you should be able to eventually afford anything, otherwise there's stuff in the game that can't be reached
16:03:57 <NukeBuster> i don't want every commit to have plugins.cfg attached because it got replaced
16:04:27 <Zuu> NukeBuster: No idea, never used plugins with msvc.
16:04:30 <petern> Roujin: same applies to other lists
16:04:41 <glx> NukeBuster: no idea either
16:04:41 <NukeBuster> the plugins aren't for msvc but for the app
16:05:08 <NukeBuster> the issue is that linux has a different dir i want to insert on compile time
16:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause> NukeBuster: so you want to autogenerate files on compile? how about you look at the code that makes version detection in openttd?
16:05:25 <NukeBuster> I can do it with cmake
16:05:30 <NukeBuster> ah ok, thanks
16:06:30 <Roujin> Okay, I think I've understood what you mean now..
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16:08:08 <thingwath> Rubidium: yes, of course, but you still should think about the price, whether a cheaper solution wouldn't be enough, in openttd, you aren't :)
16:10:02 <Roujin> but (if I understand correctly what you mean) that means every time the filter changes I have to rebuild the list...
16:11:06 <petern> yup
16:11:11 <petern> not a big issue
16:11:16 <petern> you don't have to rebuild it
16:11:32 <petern> the rest of the code'll do that
16:12:19 <Zuu> The window code that uses the GUIList will need to call rebuild yes, but that shouldn't be an issue as filter don't change without some code asking for it to change.
16:12:45 <Roujin> hmm but in the case of the content list, doesn't that imply connecting to the server again and getting all that stuff?
16:13:43 <Zuu> In that case it might be usefull to have a local copy yes.
16:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i disable a certain AI personality from appearing?
16:15:10 <petern> hmm
16:15:18 <petern> that might be the only case, heh
16:15:40 <Roujin> because the content list is what I originally had in mind for filtering...
16:15:50 <Zuu> Should apply to the list in multiplayer list alos that is quiried from the master server.
16:15:59 <Zuu> /alos/also/
16:16:56 <el_en> and /quiried/...
16:18:30 <Roujin> so that's why I didn't want to just delete stuff from the GUIList, only because it's currently filtered out by a filter
16:18:49 <Roujin> but rather have a second "complete" list available
16:19:37 <Zuu> So either we have to have a cache for network-related lists or a more generic cache for all lists.
16:25:28 <Roujin> so... such a second list I am imagining is a no-go?
16:25:53 <petern> you either need a second list or a list of what to show
16:26:10 <petern> the modify the iteration to exclude what shouldn't be shown
16:26:32 <petern> (or a list of what should be shown, same thing)
16:26:53 <petern> hm
16:27:05 <petern> thing is
16:27:10 <petern> that's what the guilist is meant to be anyway
16:27:42 <glx> an item flag should work too ;)
16:27:57 <Roujin> glx: how would you do this flag idea?
16:28:28 <glx> iterate the list and mark items visible or not depending on the filter
16:28:44 <glx> then on displaying check if it should be drawn or not
16:28:55 <Roujin> to mark them, the items need a flag attached to them..
16:29:37 <Roujin> so I haven't a SmallVector<T> anymore but a SmallVector<HelperStruct>, where HelperStruct contains T and the flag
16:29:40 <Roujin> correct?
16:31:03 <glx> you can store whatever you want in GUIList
16:33:23 <Roujin> yes, I underatand that.. hmm, it's hard to express what I mean...
16:33:45 <glx> but std::pair<T, bool> shoud work
16:36:15 <glx> hmm probably not
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16:38:07 <Roujin> to be honest, it bothers me that the GUIList "is a" SmallVector of its contents, and not "has a"
16:40:58 <glx> hmm it could be a SmallMap
16:41:41 <Roujin> I don't get why it has to be like this, and it means changing the code in all places where a GUIList is used if implementing the flag idea if I see it correctly. or atlternatively override all kinds of functions provided by SmallVector
16:42:13 <Alberth> Roujin: you could also have a 2nd 'next' pointer for the visible items
16:43:41 <Roujin> Alberth: the code that currently uses such lists doesn't even use next pointers but just a pointer that is incremented...
16:44:34 <Alberth> It's not a pointer, it's an iterator object looking by your for-loop code example
16:45:23 <Roujin> typedef const ContentInfo * const * ConstContentIterator;
16:45:42 <Alberth> how the iterator decides '++' is not in the for-loop but in the ConstContentIterator::operator++()
16:46:29 <Alberth> (but yes, a pointer could be 1 form of iterator)
16:47:14 <Roujin> see my last line: If I don't understand something wrong that means it is just a pointer, not a kind of "sophisticated" iterator :)
16:50:23 <Roujin> ah wait, you mean I could change this iterator into something more sophisticated..
16:51:16 <Alberth> Roujin: yeah, that's what I meant.
16:51:51 <Alberth> That's one of the ideas behind STL
16:52:22 <Zuu> Then wouldn't you need to compare against the filter every time you re-paint the list? But I guess, either you have to have a copy of the entire list or you have to check against the filter at every read.
16:53:54 <Roujin> Zuu: nah, not check against the filter, but combine every item of the list with a boolean flag, and check that flag
16:54:15 <Alberth> Zuu: checking a boolean flag 'visible' is quite cheap. If that's too expensive, build a 2nd 'next' pointer to the next visible item
16:54:31 <Zuu> Oh, yes checking against a flag won't cost much.
16:54:53 <glx> the problem is how to add the flag
16:55:12 <Alberth> you could even move all visible items 'up' against each other
16:55:33 <Zuu> And we are working with GUILists now, which shouldn't be that performance critic. Usually they are only repainted when they change anyway.
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17:00:11 <petern> pom te pom
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17:48:34 <petern> is that so?
17:50:20 <FauxFaux> Pon de replay.
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19:04:05 <planetmaker> hm... how do I get on a server a list of available AI which I can start?
19:06:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15270 /trunk/src/ai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Change [API CHANGE]: remove AIEventTest
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19:27:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15271 /trunk/src/ (elrail.cpp table/elrail_data.h table/sprites.h): -Codechange: Use offsets for drawing elrail wires & pylons instead of absolute sprite IDs.
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20:16:02 <fjb> Hello
20:16:15 <kd5pbo> fjb: Hi
20:23:20 <welshdragon> hmm
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20:25:20 * welshdragon thinks he will get an error when installing openttd
20:25:28 <petern> you will?
20:25:33 <welshdragon> also, the website keeps saying 'network timeout/
20:25:38 *** evandar has quit IRC
20:25:52 <petern> which website?
20:25:58 <welshdragon> petern, as i don't have any of the graphics
20:26:06 <welshdragon>
20:26:14 <petern> works for me
20:26:59 <welshdragon> The operation timed out when attempting to contact
20:28:03 <welshdragon> petern, as i don't have any ttd graphics installed
20:28:20 <petern> you can install opengfx
20:28:26 <petern> the installer doesn't need them
20:29:06 <welshdragon> link/
20:29:43 <petern>
20:29:56 <Rubidium> welshdragon: it's probably the great firewall of Wales
20:30:22 <welshdragon> Rubidium, i'm in hull
20:30:28 <petern> the welshdragon is an expatriot
20:30:37 <petern> (not to be confused with an xml library)
20:30:40 <welshdragon> actually, it's to be expected here
20:31:01 <petern> what did you want, the latest nightly?
20:31:04 <petern> or 0.6.3?
20:31:35 <welshdragon> i'm going to run both
20:32:31 <Zuu> 0.6.3 will not work with OpenGFX as far as I know.
20:32:43 <kd5pbo> What's the differences between the current nightly and 0.6.3?
20:33:14 <glx> a lot :)
20:33:22 <Prof_Frink> noai, pbs, bananas
20:33:22 <Zuu>
20:34:29 <welshdragon> where can i get graphics for 0.6.3?
20:34:39 <Zuu> From the TTD cd
20:34:47 <welshdragon> don't have 1
20:34:56 <planetmaker> then buy it
20:35:06 <welshdragon> ...meh
20:35:13 * welshdragon gets ttdpatch
20:35:22 <Rubidium> welshdragon: ttdpatch nightlies?
20:35:27 <Rubidium> good luck ;)
20:35:36 <planetmaker> hm...
20:35:41 <petern> ttdpatch also needs a certain CD...
20:35:43 <Zuu> ttdpatch will neither work without TTD graphics as far as I know.
20:35:50 * planetmaker wonders how welshdragon will play ttdpatch without ttdp...
20:35:56 <welshdragon> not if you know where to look
20:36:02 <planetmaker> it's a patch after all, you know...
20:36:19 <planetmaker> ah... :) well. then look properly. You might solve you Openttd problem, too
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20:37:58 <welshdragon> ...and i have TTD
20:38:09 <planetmaker> so... where's the problem?
20:38:17 *** Mortal has joined #openttd
20:38:19 <welshdragon> there sin't now :D
20:39:11 <Zuu> copy the gm directory if you like to have the wonderfull music from TTD also. :)
20:48:13 <Elukka> i used to have sounds and music on but i recently turned them off
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21:01:28 <Aali> @commit 13752
21:01:28 <DorpsGek> Aali: Commit by rubidium :: r13752 /trunk/src (4 files) (2008-07-20 07:41:43 UTC)
21:01:29 <DorpsGek> Aali: -Fix [FS#2130]: correctly restore conditional orders when they are put 'into' backup.
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21:02:50 <Nite_Owl> Hello all
21:04:41 *** energetic has joined #openttd
21:04:59 <frosch123> night all
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21:18:46 <DASPRiD> dihedral, yt?
21:18:58 *** Swallow has quit IRC
21:20:27 <dihedral> yep
21:20:30 <dihedral> sup dog
21:20:53 <DASPRiD> dihedral, pm
21:21:00 <Wolf01> 'night
21:21:00 <planetmaker> ?
21:21:05 <planetmaker> night Wolf
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21:42:32 <kd5pbo> So, I'm trying to build the latest nightly under OpenSolaris
21:44:01 <SmatZ> kd5pbo: I think you need to run "bash ./configure --without-makedepend ; gmake"
21:44:06 <kd5pbo> I did.
21:44:09 <kd5pbo> Oh, not gmake.
21:44:12 <kd5pbo> Lemme try that.
21:44:20 <Elukka> hmm...
21:44:30 <Elukka> more advanced random maps would be awesome
21:44:45 <Elukka> although the current one is about.. many times better than the default generator
21:46:30 <smeding_> i've never tried the default generator except for playing TTD when i was little
21:46:32 <smeding_> (well, littler)
21:46:42 <smeding_> and i'm not sure if i want to see what it produces :)
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21:47:08 <Elukka> ugly things :D
21:47:18 <Elukka> something like what dwarf fortress has would be awesome
21:47:39 <Elukka> mountains, rivers, oceans, lakes, forests
21:47:42 <Elukka> more variation
21:48:03 <kd5pbo> gmake didn't make a difference.
21:48:39 <SmatZ> kd5pbo: and --disable-strip ... at least those works on sparc with sunos
21:48:47 <SmatZ> but I guess you don't have sparc...
21:48:57 <SmatZ> kd5pbo: what's the problem?
21:49:09 <kd5pbo> Intel.
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21:49:14 <kd5pbo> I did strip
21:49:17 <kd5pbo>
21:49:22 <kd5pbo> Is the output.
21:49:30 <SmatZ> hmm it's broken ;)
21:49:42 <kd5pbo> Really?
21:49:43 * SmatZ svn exports...
21:49:44 <kd5pbo> Wow...
21:50:58 <kd5pbo> strndup is a library function, right?
21:51:05 <Rubidium> yes
21:51:33 <Rubidium> it should be available when _GNU_SOURCE is set according to strndup's manual
21:51:51 <Rubidium> apparantly your environment sets _GNU_SOURCE but doesn't provide strndup
21:52:11 <kd5pbo> OpenSolaris is fun sometimes.
21:52:54 <glx> #if defined(__MINGW32__) && defined(_GNU_SOURCE)
21:52:54 <glx> ,.../* For some weird reasons, SDL defines _GNU_SOURCE */
21:52:54 <glx> ,...#undef _GNU_SOURCE
21:52:54 <glx> #endif
21:53:01 <glx> looks similar to your problem
21:54:18 <kd5pbo> Put this in ini.cpp?
21:54:32 <glx> it's in stdafx.h
21:54:44 <kd5pbo> Which doesn't help, because I'm not using windows...
21:54:47 <kd5pbo> Rats.
21:55:22 <glx> I know you are not using windows, I just showed the fix I needed for mingw :)
21:55:29 <petern> SmatZ might like that one, but I dunno
21:55:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15272 /trunk/src/saveload/vehicle_sl.cpp:
21:55:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Check that engine types of vehicles are valid and for the correct
21:55:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: type on loading a game. This prevents a crash/assertion failure if required
21:55:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: NewGRFs are not available. This won't make the game playable, but will let you
21:55:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: see what NewGRFs are required.
21:56:59 <kd5pbo> Ah.
21:57:02 <glx> kd5pbo: you can try to build a dedicated version to see if it works
21:57:09 <kd5pbo> I will.
21:57:32 <kd5pbo> Is there a way to pass a don't define parameter to gcc.
21:57:36 <petern> buggy SDL is buggy?
21:57:42 <kd5pbo> Something like a -D in reverse?
21:57:45 <glx> it's SDL
21:58:48 <kd5pbo> Is there any file in which I can undefine _GNU_SOURCE once?
21:58:50 <glx> sdl-config --cflags
21:58:55 <Elukka> what's the main obstacle for real curved tracks? coding or lack of sprites?
21:59:16 <glx> kd5pbo: yes stdafx.h
21:59:44 <petern> 1) lack of code 2) lack of sprites 3) lack of interest 4) abundance of lack
22:00:16 <Elukka> :/
22:00:33 <Elukka> sprites would be easier with 32bpp since you could just make more renders, right?
22:00:40 <petern> no
22:00:50 <Elukka> no?
22:00:59 <petern> 32bpp has nothing to do with 'rendering'
22:01:17 <Elukka> i thought they were done in blender
22:01:21 <glx> 32bpp just replaces existing 8bpp sprites
22:01:24 <petern> sprites are sprites
22:01:32 <petern> you can 'render' 8bpp sprites
22:01:56 <Elukka> i got the idea most are just drawn
22:02:22 <petern> and you can 'just draw' 32bpp sprites too
22:02:33 <petern> so 8bpp vs 32bpp is irrelevant
22:02:39 <Elukka> right
22:02:44 <kd5pbo> I've undefined _GNU_SOURCE, we'll see if it works.
22:02:59 <Elukka> i really ought to try making some 32bpp sprites
22:03:21 <glx> kd5pbo: what is the output of "sdl-config --cflags" for you ?
22:03:40 <petern> anyway, sprites are not really an issue
22:03:42 <kd5pbo> -I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT
22:03:47 <petern> the huge amount of code changes is
22:03:47 <kd5pbo> Interesting.
22:03:58 <SmatZ> what I can say: "./configure --disable-strip --without-makedepend && gmake" compiles on "SunOS sunray1 5.10 Generic_137111-07 sun4v sparc SUNW,Sun-Fire-T1000"
22:04:01 <kd5pbo> I wrote a small program to see if _GNU_SOURCE was defined and it wasn't.
22:04:12 <glx> SmatZ: do you have SDL ?
22:04:16 <SmatZ> glx: yes
22:04:19 <Elukka> simple models would be easy in sketchup... its textures that could pose a problem
22:04:23 <SmatZ> runs fine over ssh :-D
22:04:27 <Rubidium> I reckon we should strip the _GNU_SOURCE from the sdl-config result
22:05:01 <Rubidium> <- like so
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22:05:31 <SmatZ> and it loads a TTO savegame ^_^ (it's a big endian machine)
22:05:36 <petern> can you put an "SDL is fucking stupid" in there too?
22:05:50 <petern> SmatZ, why does that surprise you? :(
22:05:58 <SmatZ> Assertion failed: == st->rect.bottom, file /bags/sojkaz1/openttd-ex3/src/station_cmd.cpp, line 612
22:06:02 <Rubidium> petern: wasn't there someone complaining about cursing in the surce code?
22:06:06 <SmatZ> petern: I coded it :)
22:06:15 <SmatZ> so it doesn't run :'-(
22:06:16 <petern> Rubidium, not enougH?
22:06:55 <Rubidium> petern: like in the updated diff?
22:07:02 * Rubidium was lazy
22:07:14 <petern> lol
22:07:18 <SmatZ> though, most of that TTO code reused code of TTD loader...
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22:08:05 <kd5pbo> ini.cpp compiled
22:09:09 <glx> kd5pbo: now try a clean trunk with Rubidium's patch
22:09:53 <Rubidium> glx: can you try the updated diff with mingw?
22:10:11 <glx> I did already :)
22:10:17 <petern> uh, yeah, remove that line yea? :P
22:10:25 <glx> was my first try
22:10:25 <Rubidium> glx: really?
22:10:32 <kd5pbo> trunk == nightly?
22:10:34 <Rubidium> as I just updated
22:10:58 <glx> I commented out stdafx.h lines
22:11:06 <Rubidium> ah, okay
22:11:18 <glx> compiled fine
22:12:21 <planetmaker> kd5pbo: even newer :)
22:12:40 <planetmaker> checkout from source repository
22:12:45 <kd5pbo> Will do.
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22:16:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15273 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: OSK of the chat did not update the caret graphics
22:16:57 * Zuu waves for Rubidium
22:19:13 <Rubidium> free out sourcing of waving ;) Must be a bad economical season
22:20:29 <petern>
22:20:51 <kd5pbo> Ok, how do I apply the patch.
22:21:01 <kd5pbo> I've had a lapse of memory, it seems.
22:22:22 <Rubidium> petern: it's waiting for the translator to say he has done it and the execution of the robber
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22:29:54 <kd5pbo> patch -p1 < fk_sdl.diff doesn't seem to work
22:30:12 <kd5pbo> Nor does patch < fk_sdl.diff
22:30:20 <Rubidium> try -p0
22:30:31 <kd5pbo> Put the patch in /trunk?
22:31:05 <kd5pbo> Worked.
22:32:24 <Zuu> I started out good with my Widget Focus thread, I think. Used images to not wirte to much un-understandable text. but then I started to write a bit... :-D
22:32:36 <Zuu>
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22:41:49 <kd5pbo> Well, first attempt at a make failed.
22:41:51 <kd5pbo> I ran out of virtual memory.
22:43:11 <kd5pbo> It compiled just fine, now I've link errors:
22:43:15 <kd5pbo>
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22:45:06 <Rubidium> rather looks like warnings
22:45:20 <kd5pbo> Yeah.
22:45:37 <kd5pbo> make run complained it couldn't find
22:45:42 <kd5pbo> Forgot to put in graphics files.
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22:50:12 <Rubidium> kd5pbo: the warning is harmless; gcc just leaves a little too much data behind when discarding bits of duplicate code
22:50:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15274 /trunk/src/saveload/ (oldloader.cpp oldloader.h oldloader_sl.cpp): -Fix (r8705): oldloader wasn't updated to use 64bit airport_flags
22:50:16 <SmatZ> fixed :)
22:50:31 <kd5pbo> Rubidium: Good to know.
22:52:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15275 /trunk/ (config.lib src/stdafx.h): -Fix: SDL adds _GNU_SOURCE to the defined macros even when the compiler doesn't provide the functions promised when that define exists...
22:57:02 <kd5pbo> Works!
22:57:09 <kd5pbo> Whee!
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22:58:22 <kd5pbo> Only problem is that now I've not got the same version as my roommates.
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22:59:04 <planetmaker> have them update :)
22:59:21 <planetmaker> pays off usually. Especially currently.
22:59:23 <kd5pbo> To the svn version?
22:59:37 <planetmaker> choose a nightly version.
22:59:46 <kd5pbo> They're mac users.
22:59:47 <planetmaker> then they most probably can download w/o compile
22:59:51 <unfrickable> Over 80% of NEGROS lack the latest mutations on Haplogroup D that allow for higher though processes. Learn even more facts about the people that hail from the Dark Continent by joining Chimpout!! At all races that aren't Negroid are welcome. We love and respect Asians, Whites, Indians, Native Americans, Mestizos, and non-negroid Jews (no Samm
22:59:52 <planetmaker> yeah. well then
22:59:56 <unfrickable> y Davis Jr.s). Join us in the epic battle of humans vs niiiggggeeers.
23:00:02 <planetmaker> @kick unfrickable
23:00:03 <kd5pbo> They're scared of compiling.
23:00:03 <kd5pbo> Found a bug.
23:00:03 <kd5pbo> Oh, ok.
23:00:08 <SmatZ> @kban unfrickable
23:00:08 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~PC@
23:00:09 *** unfrickable was kicked by DorpsGek (SmatZ)
23:00:41 <TinoDidriksen> People still spam like that? Wow, been years since I've seen that.
23:00:47 <planetmaker> kd5pbo: Mac is no problem. Versions from 10.3.9 on afaik. I compile myself though
23:00:48 <SmatZ> hehe
23:01:02 <el_en> TinoDidriksen: the second time this month on this channel.
23:01:23 <planetmaker> 3rd time I see this chimp post his racist scam
23:01:36 <kd5pbo> The music won't paly.
23:01:36 <kd5pbo> Cool.
23:01:36 <kd5pbo> The music isn't a huge issue.
23:01:53 <Rubidium> kd5pbo: don't read the readme
23:01:55 <planetmaker> kd5pbo: you need You have it?
23:01:59 <kd5pbo> Yep
23:02:02 <el_en> He (or it) was from Mexico... Or the botnet node was from Mexico.
23:02:24 <kd5pbo> What's in the readme that I should ignore?
23:02:29 <kd5pbo> ignore*
23:02:30 <Zuu> Music is in the gm folder
23:02:38 <kd5pbo> Got it.
23:02:52 <Zuu> And you have placed the gm folder NOT in your data dir?
23:03:01 <kd5pbo> it's in ~/.openttd
23:03:17 <Rubidium> do you have timidity?
23:03:19 <kd5pbo> The music player cycles through tracks fast.
23:03:23 <kd5pbo> No idea.
23:03:25 <kd5pbo> Lemme look.
23:03:50 <Rubidium> chance is pretty high you don't
23:03:55 <Rubidium> otherwise the music would play ;)
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23:04:19 <kd5pbo> Now, let's take bets on whether it's in a repository somewhere.
23:04:22 <SmatZ> ok, trunk compiles on SunOS fine
23:04:28 <kd5pbo> Yep.
23:04:32 <kd5pbo> I've not played much.
23:04:44 <kd5pbo> The changes since the latest stable version look nice.
23:07:17 <kd5pbo> The Blastwave repository had it.
23:08:20 <planetmaker> he. New supported platform, eh?
23:08:30 <planetmaker> anyway. Good night all!
23:08:32 * planetmaker waves
23:08:57 <Nite_Owl> later planetmaker
23:09:19 <SmatZ> good night planetmaker, I am going to bed too :)
23:09:32 <Nite_Owl> later SmatZ
23:09:45 <SmatZ> good night, Nite_Owl :-)
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23:22:15 <glx> I need a volunteer to test a script
23:24:23 <TinoDidriksen> Sounds dangerous...
23:24:57 <glx> only if it works :)
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23:30:44 <TinoDidriksen> Waffles are great at ! Now with free butter!
23:30:44 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!
23:30:45 *** TinoDidriksen was kicked by DorpsGek (TinoDidriksen)
23:30:49 <glx> @op
23:30:49 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o glx
23:30:57 *** glx sets mode: -b *!
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23:31:04 <TinoDidriksen> Works
23:31:06 <glx> thanks
23:31:42 <glx> it reacts faster than any op can :)
23:31:49 <glx> @deop
23:31:49 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o glx
23:35:42 <el_en> does it require you to be online?
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23:37:05 <glx> it does
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23:37:45 <glx> but it's better than nothing
23:37:48 <el_en> it's the Sacro-Macintosh cyborg!
23:37:49 <Sacro|Mac> Yeah
23:37:57 <Sacro|Mac> heh, trying colloquy
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23:38:07 <glx> did you find your (at) key?
23:38:14 <glx> too late
23:38:52 <Sacro> glx: yes
23:38:55 <Sacro> @ :D
23:39:00 <Sacro> I had option set as meta ticked
23:39:16 <Sacro> which allowed me to use alt+num to change window
23:39:24 <Sacro> but disabled the whole ¡€#¢∞§¶•ªº
23:39:41 <el_en> that's why people use esc+num.
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23:42:29 <el_en> does the n-word now result in a ban, too?
23:42:46 <glx> n-word?
23:42:58 <svip> The word that is banned in New York.
23:43:40 <el_en> the "nigger, v. 1. a. trans. To section off (a log, etc.) by burning or charring at intervals." word.
23:44:09 <el_en> apparently not.
23:44:12 <glx> no, it's hard to catch
23:44:29 <glx> they tend to duplicate letters to prevent that
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23:44:38 <glx> but the url is always the same ;)
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23:51:35 <RS-SM> ...
23:51:36 <RS-SM> what
23:51:42 <RS-SM> anyway
23:51:51 <RS-SM> what ngrf do you like the most
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