IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2009-01-11
00:00:05 <goodger> hi WhiteRhino
00:00:05 <OwenS> My DVD player is apparently crackable - but the only way is to buy a remote from a bunch of shady fleabay sellers...
00:00:36 <TrueBrain> buy a new DVD player (from a good supplier) and put in the right region DVD as first DVD :)
00:00:46 <TrueBrain> (DVD players from the supplier don't have a region lock yet .. after the first DVD they do)
00:00:54 <OwenS> TrueBrain: I have multiple regions of DVDs
00:01:08 <OwenS> Mostly European, but I have some American imports
00:01:15 <TrueBrain> so buy 6 player s:)
00:01:16 <TrueBrain> haha :)
00:01:32 <glx> cheaper than a bluray player ;)
00:01:45 <goodger> you can of course buy regionless dvd players
00:01:47 *** mib_041m101y has left #openttd
00:01:48 <OwenS> glx: My PS3 is (probably) an adaquite bluray player
00:01:57 <TrueBrain> goodger: those are not legal in any country
00:02:05 <TrueBrain> (well, never say 'any', but okay ...)
00:02:10 <OwenS> TrueBrain, New Zealand has illegalized region coding :p
00:02:12 <goodger> TrueBrain: no, never do say "any"
00:02:15 <OwenS> goodger: Or you can just remove the region coding on your DVD drive :p
00:02:18 <goodger> I own one
00:02:35 <TrueBrain> doesn't make it any more legal
00:02:52 <OwenS> It's only illegal for the manufacturer (Their contract with DVD-LA over the CSS patents)
00:02:59 <glx> you can also 'play' with the firmware
00:03:00 <goodger> I've a feeling ebuyer wouldn't sell them if it were illegal
00:03:04 *** Vikthor has quit IRC
00:03:32 <goodger> I'm not sure of the manufacturer of this drive
00:03:44 <TrueBrain> I like playing with firmwares :)
00:03:47 <glx> on ebay everything is legal until catched
00:04:24 <goodger> ebuyer != ebay
00:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> so buy 6 player s:) <- and then pay absolute attention that you not insert the wrong disk in the wrong player
00:05:34 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: just the first time .. after that, you just won't be able to play them on that player :)
00:05:46 <OwenS> And run out of SCART and HDMI sockets :p
00:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> afair the players can switch regions multiple times
00:06:06 <TrueBrain> enough SCART 3-1 thingies :)
00:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> like 5 times or so
00:06:17 <goodger> *nod*
00:06:19 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause, yes, but only if you ask them
00:06:21 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: when you hit reset, yes :p
00:06:27 <TrueBrain> rarely by just inserting the disk
00:06:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and then you end up with 3 players locked to the same region
00:07:05 <TrueBrain> damn, I just want to watch a good movie :(
00:07:17 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: only if you are really stupid ;)
00:07:27 <goodger> TrueBrain: may I suggest The Terminal?
00:07:34 <Rubidium> Starwreck ;)
00:07:37 <TrueBrain> goodger: no
00:07:45 <goodger> oh
00:07:51 <goodger> shame
00:08:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the most funny thing on star wreck is the language...
00:08:11 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: lol
00:08:19 <goodger> ooh, I got +4 on my slashdot comment! :D
00:08:33 <OwenS> People visit Slashdot?
00:08:53 <TrueBrain> oh goody! People thought you were joking with some math stuff you did?
00:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> what makes you thing goodger is an instance of People?
00:09:09 *** Tim has joined #openttd
00:09:12 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: think ;)
00:09:16 <TrueBrain> hi Tim :)
00:09:21 <Tim> hi :)
00:09:28 <goodger> OwenS: apparently
00:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... my local dialect coming through...
00:09:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the hard "g" :p
00:09:45 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I know thatone all too well :)
00:09:57 <goodger> TrueBrain: no, I got +4 Informative and two replies
00:10:04 <goodger>
00:10:17 <TrueBrain> I would print it, frame it, and put it above your bed
00:10:23 <TrueBrain> @kick goodger no self-promoting here
00:10:23 *** goodger was kicked by DorpsGek (no self-promoting here)
00:10:26 <TrueBrain> too easy
00:10:34 *** goodger has joined #openttd
00:10:37 <goodger> hrrm
00:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i wondered how long it would take him to actually post the lin_k_ here :p
00:11:20 <Roujin_> out of boredom I set up a screenshot that looks like 9/11, because openttd just happened to generate a town with two big towers from TTRS next to each other...
00:11:25 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: same here, same here :)
00:11:38 <goodger> *eyeroll*
00:11:40 <TrueBrain> Roujin_: show us :)
00:11:43 <TrueBrain> (bad joke btw :p)
00:11:44 <Roujin_> now I wonder if people would be offended if I posted that in the random screenshot thread
00:11:54 <TrueBrain> most likely :)
00:11:54 <goodger> Roujin_: probably.
00:12:00 <TrueBrain> as it is kind of ... nasty
00:12:48 <Rubidium> what would be most interesting/offending is having the planes really explode when near/over the building
00:13:09 <Roujin_> sorry :/ I got tempted by the overly huge skyscrapers of TTRS.. higher than planes are appearently allowed to fly
00:13:17 <glx> doable with a custom build ;)
00:13:22 <goodger> and then have the building collapse in a suspiciously vertical pattern?
00:13:28 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: should be doable
00:13:29 <TrueBrain> lol :)
00:13:30 <Rubidium> glx: even without a custom build
00:13:45 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: how do you crash a plane midair?
00:13:57 <goodger> TrueBrain: crash it into another plane
00:14:01 <TrueBrain> not like you can drive a bus into it
00:14:01 <Rubidium> delete all airports
00:14:25 <Roujin_> but then it doesn't explode immediately, does it?
00:14:25 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: good point
00:14:31 <TrueBrain> requires a bit of timing
00:14:56 <TrueBrain> 4 GiB in 10 minutes
00:14:58 <TrueBrain> I love my connection :)
00:15:03 <goodger> hrrm
00:15:07 <TrueBrain> unrar takes longer than the download :)
00:15:13 <glx> I hate you :)
00:15:21 <goodger> I have six torrents downloading at a total of 40 KiB/s
00:15:21 <TrueBrain> I love you too glx :)
00:15:31 <Rubidium> assuming 99% of all stuff is spam...
00:15:41 <goodger> they're not even esoteric
00:15:55 <TrueBrain> Torrent Stats; Average Upload Speed (216 days): 242.3 kiB/s
00:15:57 <Roujin_> well, if one wanted to be really evil, he could also create a newgrf that would be .. lets say the predecessor of the DBset
00:16:21 * goodger raises eyebrow
00:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> <goodger> and then have the building collapse in a suspiciously vertical pattern? <- it would have been a serious architectural flaw, if the buildings would _not_ have collapsed vertically, and instead take two blocks of buildings with them, falling sideways
00:16:57 <goodger> this is true
00:16:58 <Roujin_> and have it transport a certain sub cargo class of passengers... to special "industries" <-- that's WAY wrong
00:17:09 <TrueBrain> Bandwidth Average: 2 TiB a month upload, 1 TiB a mont download
00:17:11 <TrueBrain> hehe
00:17:36 <goodger> the towers were, however, the first skyscrapers ever to collapse after being crashed into by a plane, and the first to collapse from fire
00:17:38 <energetic> did 4:15 for 700megs lately
00:18:14 <Roujin_> goodger: were there other skyscrapers before that have been hit by planes?
00:18:23 <goodger> Roujin_: a few, yes
00:18:37 <goodger> but this is an ugly topic of conversation
00:18:38 <Roujin_> by planes of the same size, too?
00:18:42 <OwenS> IIRC, didn't the kerosene go down one/more of the elevator shafts?
00:18:56 <OwenS> (Sorry, just checking if my memory is correct)
00:19:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Roujin_: usually, accidental. not planned to create maximum damage
00:19:15 <TrueBrain> Roujin_: a few Cesnas :)
00:19:23 <TrueBrain> Cessnas
00:19:25 <TrueBrain> sigh ..
00:20:14 <Roujin_> well, a cessna doesn't really match those who hit the twin towers...
00:20:26 <TrueBrain> not by a long shot
00:20:41 <TrueBrain> like being hit by a match
00:20:51 <Nite_Owl>
00:20:56 <TrueBrain> (in dutch that sounds much better)
00:21:18 <TrueBrain> bah, even 10 minutes is too long when you are waiting for it :)
00:21:26 * OwenS now wonders what aircraft a nuclear reactor's missile shield must withstand =S
00:21:39 <energetic> the best story about this discussion
00:22:05 <energetic> I think is the Delft University faculty of Building
00:22:14 <Roujin_> so I guess by not mentioning that, some conspiracy theory crash people created that sentence* to "prove" their claims (* "the towers were, however, the first skyscrapers ever to collapse after being crashed into by a plane")
00:22:21 <energetic> Saying: no big tower an collapse due to fire
00:22:49 <energetic> then 3 years later: that exactly that happened to their own buillding
00:23:02 <energetic> but the irony here is not _that_
00:23:21 <goodger> energetic: if you were a conspiracy theorist, one might say that this was not an accident. I am not
00:23:22 <Rubidium> energetic: that building fire is special too... it did burn without producing CO2
00:23:30 <energetic> the irony is that the Delft building partly collapsed, as they predicted would happen when a fire hit s a building
00:23:40 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I was waiting on thatone ;)
00:23:45 <Rubidium> ;)
00:23:51 <energetic> and not a total freefall collapse like the twins.
00:24:05 <energetic> They proved their own theory :)
00:24:32 <goodger> I find it highly suspicious that the entire building was destroyed so neatly, nonetheless
00:25:01 <TrueBrain> how would you react whena plane hits you
00:25:03 <TrueBrain> I would go down too
00:25:03 <energetic> Thats why I think the delft story is _so unbelievably strong_.
00:25:04 *** trainel has joined #openttd
00:25:09 <trainel> jo
00:25:18 *** trainel has quit IRC
00:25:21 <TrueBrain> yo yo homies!
00:25:28 <TrueBrain> glad he realises he had to leave
00:25:30 <Sacro> yo yo yo homo!
00:25:40 <TrueBrain> Sacro: yes darling?
00:25:45 <Sacro> eep *hides*
00:25:46 <Eddi|zuHause> homo sapiens. yes
00:25:52 <Sacro> i think dihedral is who you are after TrueBrain
00:26:06 <glx> homo sapiens sapiens to be exact
00:26:07 <TrueBrain> wow, I found a way to scare Sacro away
00:26:21 <goodger> Sacro: has it occurred to you that the casual use of synonyms for "homosexual" as pejoratives is offensive?
00:26:31 <Sacro> goodger: yes, but I don't care :P
00:26:42 <Nite_Owl> Need to feed - later all
00:26:45 <Quaver> Sacro: oh, btw
00:26:49 <TrueBrain> homo homo homo homo homo homo homo homo homo homo homo homo homo homo
00:26:53 *** Nite_Owl has quit IRC
00:27:02 <Quaver> my mum was convinced you were gay until i told her otherwise earlier
00:27:05 <goodger> TrueBrain: that's quite a good tune actually
00:27:09 <Sacro> Quaver: pfft
00:27:22 <TrueBrain> oh, sorry, I meant to say:
00:27:25 <Sacro> i'm as gay as lawrence
00:27:26 <TrueBrain> goodger goodger goodger goodger goodger goodger goodger goodger goodger goodger goodger goodger goodger
00:27:44 <goodger> that also is a good tune
00:27:44 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: just a simple typo, ain't it?
00:27:45 <Quaver> Sacro: she was shocked when i told her otherwise and her gaydar is pretty good ;)
00:27:55 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: happens to all of us, not? :)
00:28:04 <Rubidium> Quaver: thou shalt not lie to thy mother
00:28:22 <TrueBrain> Quaver: what a nasty thing to say in a public channel :)
00:28:36 <Quaver> TrueBrain: hey, she wanted me to tell him ;)
00:28:59 <Sacro> :\
00:29:03 <Sacro> i'm not gay ><
00:29:08 <TrueBrain> but so publicly?
00:29:18 <TrueBrain> Sacro: proof it!
00:29:21 <goodger> Sacro: that's not what you said last night!
00:29:24 <Quaver> TrueBrain: that wasn't specified
00:29:29 <goodger> zing
00:29:59 <TrueBrain> (one thing a person can never proof, is that he is not gay ... one of the annoying features of not being gay I guess :))
00:30:10 <energetic> lol
00:30:16 <goodger> *nod*
00:30:21 <energetic> i disagree though
00:30:37 <TrueBrain> lijbrandt users tend to do that here, but do tell :)
00:30:39 <goodger> well
00:30:42 <energetic> hehe
00:30:44 <Quaver> energetic: i dunno ... it's the same the other way, surely
00:30:49 <energetic> i mean
00:30:55 <Sacro> so TrueBrain, how's the boyfriend?
00:30:56 <goodger> actually there is a test involving forcemeters, elastic bands and pron
00:31:11 <TrueBrain> Sacro: I thought you were my boyfriend :'( :'(
00:31:14 <TrueBrain> what a sad day ...
00:31:14 <goodger> but the candidate has to be not concealing it
00:31:17 <energetic> if i would lie about me being not hetero, and someone would proof i am
00:31:19 <Sacro> errm... if you want
00:31:29 <energetic> simply put a naked hot women on top of me
00:31:36 <goodger> Sacro: you go very well together
00:31:40 <energetic> tproof aint hard to see
00:31:46 <goodger> indeed...
00:31:51 <energetic> i guess this works the other way around, too.
00:31:54 <TrueBrain> energetic: being gay doesn't mean perse that a girl doesn't make you ... well .. you know ;)
00:32:05 <Roujin_> maybe it's possible to put the person in hypnosis so he can't lie when he's asked about his preferences
00:32:22 <TrueBrain> Roujin_: I think that is a good possibility :)
00:32:24 <TrueBrain> lets try it ;)
00:32:27 <Sacro> TrueBrain: yes it does
00:32:27 <energetic> that would simply mean ur bi
00:32:33 <goodger> Roujin_: sodium thiopenthal!
00:32:40 <TrueBrain> energetic: well, I have to agree with you on the other way around .. put a naked man in front of me, and nothing would happen ....
00:32:47 * goodger runs down to the lab
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00:32:51 <energetic> the gay ppl i know really dont get 1 bpm more when they see a naked women
00:33:00 <TrueBrain> energetic: it is more the social pressure of we being used to getting .. well .. you know, by seeing a naked woman
00:33:07 <Roujin_> goodger: hai, sou desu ne...
00:33:10 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
00:33:29 <goodger> Roujin_: no speaky the japanesey
00:33:30 <Roujin_> goodger: in other words, I have no idea what you just said :P
00:33:40 <goodger> ah
00:33:50 <Roujin_> (actually that was not what I said, but you get the point :P)
00:33:54 <TrueBrain> truthserum
00:34:00 <energetic> TrueBrain: any news about Lijbrandt?
00:34:10 <goodger> sodium thiopenthal is a barbiturate anaesthetic drug commonly used to erode people's ability to lie under interrogation
00:34:16 <TrueBrain> energetic: they suck?
00:34:19 <TrueBrain> haha :)
00:34:23 <energetic> thats not new.
00:34:32 <TrueBrain> only it doesn't work
00:34:34 <TrueBrain> but the idea is nice
00:34:37 <TrueBrain> it sounds cool :)
00:34:50 <TrueBrain> put 'sodium' in front of any expensive word
00:34:54 <TrueBrain> and in any movie you have: TRUTH SERUM!
00:35:00 <energetic> hehe
00:35:03 <goodger> heh
00:35:10 <OwenS> Sodium Thiopenthal's effects are entirely the person going "Crap! They have injected me with Truth Serum!"
00:35:17 <goodger> IRL it works as I described, though
00:35:24 *** frosch123 has quit IRC
00:35:29 <energetic> most computer interfaces are fake in movies, so prolly the checmical stuff is all fake too
00:35:32 <goodger> it makes the person less alert, hence less intelligent and less able to avoid giving things away under tricks
00:35:39 <TrueBrain> energetic: no shit ;)
00:36:00 <TrueBrain> anyway, when you believe enough in your own lie, it isn't even a lie for your own brain
00:36:00 <energetic> however trinity hacking into mainframe.... some stuff _is_ real.
00:36:08 <TrueBrain> so any 'serum' which makes you tell the truth is bullshit :)
00:36:10 <energetic> True, brain.
00:36:15 <goodger> TrueBrain: absolument
00:36:23 <TrueBrain> energetic: yeah, the word: 'ssh' ;)
00:36:27 <goodger> have you noticed how smashing a VDU in a movie will always render the system offline? and how, when computers break, the VDUs explode
00:36:28 <OwenS> Yeah, I like how The Matrix exploits a real OpenSSH vulnerability :p
00:36:57 <Roujin_> yeah, show me a computer that just shows a password screen all day and if you enter the right password you directly get all the secret information you want :D
00:37:00 <OwenS> goodger, And how, in Star Trek, they run multi megajoule pwoer conduits behind consoles, so the bridge operators get injured/killed every time someone shoots at them?
00:37:06 <goodger> yep!
00:37:06 <energetic> just must be a honk of an admin to use software with a flaw....
00:37:09 <TrueBrain> what amuzes me in movies, is how they reflect a computer which is not working 100% ... by putting static on parts of the screen ...
00:37:12 <energetic> >2 ages old!
00:37:20 <energetic> *hork*
00:37:47 <mrfrenzy> you guys should start producing movies ;)
00:37:51 <goodger> OwenS: also, the warp engines are inexplicably located in the aft, the ship banks in order to make turns, the ship has to slow down to turn, and the bridge is inexplicably located at the front
00:37:52 <TrueBrain> finally my movie is extracted
00:37:59 <goodger> mrfrenzy: way ahead of you...
00:38:03 <energetic> Private bitches #4?
00:38:04 <TrueBrain> mrfrenzy: nah .. making it 'real' makes really boring movies :)
00:38:22 <goodger> s/front/stern/
00:38:25 <mrfrenzy> however having the science probable makes it a lot more fun
00:38:26 <OwenS> goodger, The in universe explaination for the shape of the ships is "warp dynamics". In other words, warp has it's own laws ;-)
00:38:31 <TrueBrain> lol @ energetic :)
00:38:33 <mrfrenzy> I think stargate is quite good at that
00:38:54 <TrueBrain> still there things happen ...
00:39:06 <goodger> OwenS: actually warp drives are not weird pseudoscience, the theory is sound under general relativity
00:39:23 <OwenS> goodger, In theory sound if we find a particle with NEGATIVE ENERGY, yes
00:39:29 <TrueBrain> goodger: sure ......
00:39:41 <OwenS> I'll leave it up to you to debate the possibility of a particle having a negative energy
00:39:46 <TrueBrain> OwenS: or bundle all the energy of our solar system into a single point ... :p
00:39:50 <goodger> OwenS: the use of antimatter is an implementation detail. besides, antimatter does exist
00:40:00 <OwenS> Antimatter has positive energy
00:40:07 <TrueBrain> what OwenS says
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00:40:20 <energetic> did they find the higgs particle yet in france?
00:40:26 <TrueBrain> antimatter is just as normal as matter
00:40:32 <TrueBrain> energetic: not by a long shot
00:40:33 <OwenS> But to implement a Abercubie Drive (Scientific name for Warp drive), you need negative energy particles
00:40:39 <goodger> energetic: no, a lot of helium spilled on it and now it's offline. it's also in switzerland
00:40:47 <TrueBrain> OwenS: one of the theories :)
00:40:54 <energetic> oh, they evaporated into a black hole, i see.
00:41:13 <OwenS> The problem is that FTL and time travel are mutually inclusive
00:41:19 <OwenS> You can't have one without the other
00:41:25 <energetic> there is this cool movie about the tenth dimension
00:41:46 <Roujin_> <goodger> energetic: no, a lot of helium spilled on it and now it's offline. it's also in switzerland <-- lol, that sounds like "it's also in switzerland" is also a mistake that happened during some experiment :D
00:41:47 <goodger> OwenS: again, an implementation detail. the idea of achieving faster-than-light travel by bending spacetime around a stationary object is sound
00:41:48 <TrueBrain> OwenS: FTL?
00:41:57 <energetic>
00:42:01 <goodger> TrueBrain: faster-than-light
00:42:01 <energetic> great stuff
00:42:02 <OwenS> TrueBrain, FTL = Faster Than Light
00:42:17 <OwenS> goodger: Yes. It's sound if negative energy particles are sound
00:42:19 <TrueBrain> OwenS: ah :) Then I agree with you :)
00:42:42 <OwenS> As of yet, we have yet to develop negative energy particles, and it is debatable whether it's possible to have a particle with an energy debt
00:42:45 <valhallasw> somewhat sound, yes :P
00:42:56 <valhallasw> of course, faster-than-light particles exist
00:42:59 <valhallasw> just not in vacuum
00:43:04 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I like the theory which suggest if we create one negative particle, it would consume all positive particles :)
00:43:22 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: bad joke :p
00:43:35 <OwenS> Mmmh, Cherenkov Radiation
00:44:00 <goodger> ...anyway
00:44:11 <Roujin_> anyway...
00:44:14 <OwenS> So, funnily enough, given the right conditions, nuclear reactors do glow. But cyan, not green :p
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00:44:23 <TrueBrain> lol @ OwenS :)
00:44:25 <goodger> I think we've gone too far into pointing out petty flaws in a fictional television programme
00:44:40 <OwenS> Were having a Physics debate :p
00:45:00 <energetic> well thats the only cool thing about the program
00:45:09 <TrueBrain> goodger: you started saying it is possible
00:45:24 <energetic> you can neglect the acting stuff, McGyver is better at that.
00:45:38 <TrueBrain> true :)
00:45:40 <Roujin_> and now for something completely different. what this guy did gave me the idea that the add newgrf window should work like the save/load window...
00:45:46 <OwenS> Though if were gonna have a physics debate, I'd prefer it be on something I'm gonna be examined on on Tuesday :p
00:45:57 <goodger> TrueBrain: I started by saying that the idea of moving an object by enclosing it in a packet of spacetime is sound, not that it is possible to implement IRL with current tech
00:46:00 <energetic> *ducks*
00:46:04 <TrueBrain> OwenS: which is?
00:46:26 <OwenS> Electricity and The Standard Model of Quantum Physics
00:46:35 <Roujin_> okay, keep discussing physics then :P
00:46:37 <goodger> OwenS: if it's classical mechanics, just remember to stick inverse-square relationships under everything
00:46:44 <TrueBrain> OwenS: good luck my friend :)
00:46:57 <goodger> yes, good luck
00:48:14 <energetic> A small thing crossed my mind: when removing a station, shouldnt the railway be kept?
00:48:26 <energetic> just like a bus stop
00:48:35 <Roujin_> nope
00:48:36 <energetic> of an inline busstop
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00:48:48 <Roujin_> you also don't build the station on existing rail, do you?
00:48:54 <OwenSX> OK what happened there? =S
00:49:09 <energetic> seems logical to me
00:49:22 <energetic> (that the railway should be removed seperately)
00:49:23 <Roujin_> OwenSX: depends on what "there" is...
00:49:30 <energetic> except if you use the demo tool
00:49:36 *** OwenS is now known as Guest1021
00:49:36 <thingwath> damn, it seems I'm drunk.
00:49:36 *** OwenSX is now known as owens
00:49:37 <TrueBrain> OwenSX: a cosmic ray hit your cable
00:49:43 *** owens is now known as OwenS
00:49:59 <energetic> thats actually possible, TB.
00:50:11 <TrueBrain> thingwath: depends on how many people you see in this channel
00:50:14 <energetic> bitflips caused by cosmic rays
00:50:18 <TrueBrain> energetic: not only possible, even probable
00:50:23 <TrueBrain> but I doubt the problem was because of that ;)
00:50:36 <thingwath> Umm, not many.
00:50:46 <energetic> we should never remove all possibilities :D
00:50:50 <TrueBrain> what was the thumbrule ... 1 cosmic ray hits the top of your dumb every minute
00:50:58 <TrueBrain> dumb = thumb
00:50:59 <TrueBrain> lol
00:51:20 <energetic> _thats_ why i am slowly dying....
00:51:30 <OwenS> And something like 10,000 Carbon-14 atoms decay in your DNA every hour or something
00:51:31 <energetic> dang cosmic rays!
00:51:36 <TrueBrain> haha :) If you think that is the only reason .. sure, why not ;)
00:51:54 <energetic> shooting at my valuable stem cells!
00:52:09 <OwenS> You don't have any stem cells ;-)
00:52:19 <TrueBrain> SHIELD YOURSELF!
00:52:32 <energetic> anyone some tinfoil left?
00:52:45 <OwenS> And what is it? 10 billion solar Neutrinos pass through your body every second
00:52:48 <TrueBrain> tinfoil won't do it :)
00:52:54 <TrueBrain> you need something .... more equiped :)
00:53:04 <TrueBrain> OwenS: that is just scary ;)
00:53:10 <energetic> copperfoil?
00:53:26 <energetic> leadfoil!
00:53:32 <TrueBrain> chicken-raster
00:53:36 <TrueBrain> what is it called in english?
00:53:44 <energetic> kippegaas lol
00:53:44 <OwenS> The Sun generates neutrinos through it's CNO fusion cycle, and also through side Electron-Positron eliminations
00:53:52 <Sacro> tinfoil
00:53:58 <TrueBrain> energetic: yeah, now the english word :)
00:53:58 *** OtherRhino is now known as WhiteRhino
00:54:06 <energetic> *interglots*
00:54:17 <TrueBrain> OwenS: as long as it is CNO fusion ;)
00:54:23 <energetic> chicken wire
00:54:37 <energetic> wire mesh
00:54:44 <energetic> wire gauze
00:54:50 <energetic> doubt that helps though
00:55:04 <energetic> leadfoil might just do it?
00:55:13 *** Guest1021 has quit IRC
00:55:13 <TrueBrain> works pretty well
00:55:13 <OwenS> Against?
00:55:20 <TrueBrain> cosmic rays
00:55:27 <OwenS> 100km of air works better
00:55:37 <energetic> OwenS: not well enough.
00:55:44 <goodger> tinfoil actually amplifies some EM radiation
00:55:48 <TrueBrain> OwenS: true, but that is rarely available in a room :)
00:56:14 <energetic> thats why they use it! now they can say: see: radiation kills!
00:56:15 <OwenS> TrueBrain: You always have 100km of air above you unless your outside the atmosphere :)
00:56:30 <OwenS> energetic: Oh great, more opposition to nuclear power =(
00:56:49 <TrueBrain> OwenS: but we just established that even that does allow some CR to enter your body
00:56:54 <TrueBrain> to avoid that .. we need an other 100 km :p
00:57:08 <TrueBrain> energetic: anyway, a Faraday works pretty well
00:57:14 <TrueBrain> Faraday cage
00:57:22 <energetic> against electrons in the air
00:57:28 <energetic> not cosmic stuff
00:57:34 <OwenS> Anything with enough mass to stop the rest of the cosmic rays has enough mas to crush your body
00:57:34 <energetic> they aint electrons
00:57:47 <TrueBrain> OwenS: not ALL of them ;)
00:57:50 <TrueBrain> just a bunch more :)
00:57:52 <OwenS> Remember: Your body is already holding up a 100km air column ;-)
00:58:09 <TrueBrain> and it is heavy as hell
00:58:09 <TrueBrain> :p
00:58:19 <energetic> thats a nice line to approach a women
00:58:20 <goodger> indeed
00:58:25 <goodger> heh
00:58:30 <OwenS> Most people don't realise how much the air above their head weighs :p
00:58:33 <Tim> Hm, following the tutorial here: everything worked fine so far, but when trying to compile pnglib it msys gives me an error...:Connecting to[]:80... connected.
00:58:33 <Tim> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found
00:58:33 <Tim> 01:56:20 ERROR 404: Not Found.
00:58:33 <Tim>
00:58:33 <Tim> tar (child): /tmp/libpng-1.2.8.tar.bz2: Cannot open: No such file or directory
00:58:36 <energetic> wow, you are strong! you can hold a column of 100KM of air!
00:58:45 <TrueBrain> OwenS: for good reason :)
00:58:49 <Sacro> Tim: oh dear
00:58:52 <energetic> *confused*
00:59:03 <TrueBrain> Tim: be creative
00:59:14 <Tim> :D
00:59:16 <TrueBrain> energetic: I can stay under water for 1 hour!! :)
00:59:25 <Sacro> TrueBrain: drowning?
00:59:31 * Sacro wants tickets
00:59:32 * TrueBrain puts a glass of water on his head
00:59:42 <goodger> *headdesk*
00:59:44 <energetic> thats how they found water on mars, too.
01:00:01 <TrueBrain> energetic: most likely :)
01:00:15 <TrueBrain> Mars is fake!
01:00:22 <energetic> omg i put on the irc channel of tweakers
01:00:43 <goodger> TrueBrain: it is traditional at this point to link to a photograph of a glass of water on a mars bar
01:00:56 <energetic> difference of day and night - all thats not allowed on the forum happens in the irc channel
01:01:00 <TrueBrain> goodger: really?!?!!?!
01:01:04 <TrueBrain> wow .. the intelligence ..
01:01:33 <goodger> ¬.¬
01:01:39 <TrueBrain> energetic: peopple want to ventilate one way or an other :)
01:01:40 <energetic> tradition ultimately needs to be broken and replced by new tradiotions.
01:01:48 <Roujin_> is a vehicle ID of 255 illegal?
01:02:01 <TrueBrain> Roujin_: no
01:02:07 <Roujin_> hmm
01:02:08 <energetic> as u can all se i can trype very fatds
01:02:48 <Roujin_> i have an action 6 changing the vehicle ID of my vehicle according to the parameter the user sets
01:02:51 <TrueBrain> Ai Speek Ferrie Goet Engelisj
01:03:00 <goodger> heh
01:03:18 <energetic> but i thought they would mod the irc channel like tweakers, too.
01:03:44 <Roujin_> it's in all places where I need to mention the vehicle ID (action 0, action 3, action 4)
01:03:50 <TrueBrain> then everyone just goes to #tweakers.hideout
01:03:50 <TrueBrain> :p
01:04:21 <Roujin_> if I set the parameter to 255 ingame, it disables the grf saying "Unknown Action 0 property"
01:04:24 <Tim> Hm, that place where he does want to download the file does not exist... Where is it situated now? :
01:04:24 <Tim> $ ./
01:04:24 <Tim> Download file? (Yes)
01:04:24 <Tim> Download file URI? (
01:04:37 <TrueBrain> Tim: be creative :)
01:05:23 <Tim> do i need the adress to the normal libpng 1.2.34 download?
01:06:35 <Roujin_> is it that action 6 does not allow setting something to 255 with a parameter? :/
01:06:53 <Tim> And is it possible to paste from the clipboard into msys? :)
01:07:14 <TrueBrain> Roujin_: I can't help you, my knowledge of newgrf is 0.0000000000
01:07:15 <TrueBrain> ;)
01:07:19 * OwenS wonders why the tt-forums database backup requires shutting down the forum. It should be possible to get a consistent backup just by surrounding the backup with a transaction :p
01:07:37 <energetic> I think, after about a year, Kurt is the biggest ottd community
01:07:53 <TrueBrain> OwenS: it will make the backup take much longer ;)
01:08:06 <OwenS> TrueBrain, But it wouldn't shut down the forum ;)
01:08:17 <energetic> I learned something yesterday:
01:08:27 <TrueBrain> OwenS: those 10 minutes ....
01:08:28 <TrueBrain> :)
01:08:29 <energetic> beer+HDDs running dont go together.
01:08:32 <TrueBrain> energetic: one thing? :p
01:08:35 <Tim> Hey, i guess it worked :D
01:08:44 <Tim> Thank you, TrueBrain :D
01:08:56 <TrueBrain> yw!
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01:09:38 <energetic> And the country leading the country-rankings on Kurts is.... how can it be different... NL.
01:09:59 <TrueBrain> we just rule :)
01:10:04 <energetic> how come NL is relatively the most active ottd supplier?
01:10:12 <glx> Roujin_: not sure but it may be a B* not a B
01:10:19 <energetic> so much dutchies.... its weird
01:10:21 <TrueBrain> energetic: just appearance :)
01:10:32 <energetic> doubt that
01:10:40 <Tim> svn checkout...
01:11:27 <Tim> aaaaaand compiling
01:11:36 <Tim> wish me luck...
01:11:45 <energetic> gl?
01:11:52 <Tim> thanks :)
01:11:57 <glx> if configure worked, compile should not fail
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01:12:17 <glx> unless you modified the sources
01:12:23 <TrueBrain> glx: want to put money on that?
01:12:26 <TrueBrain> it is ,a fter all, Tim
01:13:34 <TrueBrain> energetic: but yeah ... of all nationalities, Dutch ruled in the dev-team for a long time ;)
01:13:39 <TrueBrain> weird enough ... not that many are from USA
01:13:43 <TrueBrain> which always did suprise me :)
01:13:52 <energetic> i guess thats easy to explain
01:14:01 <Roujin_> glx: indeed, vehicle id is listed as B*, but does that mean i cannot use 255?
01:14:03 <Tim> hey.... :(
01:14:10 <Tim> No, i did not (yet) modify the source :D
01:14:13 <energetic> chriss sawyer came from UK, so prolly not sold a lot of copies in US
01:14:36 <energetic> mainly EU. But then I still dont know where the NL part cpomes from
01:14:43 <OwenS> OpenTTD is mainly a train sim, and America has very few railroads
01:14:45 <Tim> But i definitely will... And my first "patch" will be to make realistic acceleration activated as standard
01:14:58 <glx> Roujin_: IIRC 255 for a B* means there's something else behind
01:15:00 <TrueBrain> and NL has a sucky railroad system .. that explains :)
01:15:02 <energetic> OwenS: also true
01:15:03 <OwenS> Coincidence or not I do not know
01:15:23 <energetic> well, NL has to biggest railroad system of the world, relatively
01:15:48 <glx> ,...val = grf_load_byte(buf);
01:15:48 <glx> ,...if (val == 0xFF) val = grf_load_word(buf);
01:15:51 <OwenS> The UK's railroad system needs a higher speed
01:16:04 <energetic> NL is mostly 130KPH
01:16:09 <glx> so FF FF 00 should be 255
01:16:19 <energetic> some parts 140, some 160, some 240
01:16:19 <Roujin_> I see
01:16:44 <OwenS> UK's fastest is 125mph/200kmh^-1
01:17:53 <OwenS> Exception being High Speed 1 (Track between the 'chunnel and London St Pancras)
01:18:08 <OwenS> Which is 300kmh^-1
01:18:13 <energetic> i totally like how they made the line between lodon and manchester
01:18:21 <Tim> hrhrhr, compiling worked :)
01:18:21 <energetic> they terraformed the complete route
01:18:30 <TrueBrain> energetic: 240? In NL? Where?
01:18:34 <TrueBrain> The HSL is still not active ..
01:18:37 <energetic> since engines where unable to do more then .5% slopes
01:18:41 <energetic> HSL
01:19:14 <OwenS> Heh cool, the UK is getting Shinkansen to run on HS1 :p
01:19:22 <energetic> I read that AMT can make chaper maglev lines as they built Hispeed links
01:19:31 <energetic> *cheaper*
01:19:38 <glx> TrueBrain: give me the money ;)
01:19:56 <TrueBrain> glx: you forgot to put in any money :p
01:20:01 <TrueBrain> you can get a cookie?
01:20:03 <TrueBrain>
01:20:10 <Tim> And it worked again with my change to settings.cpp applied :)
01:20:22 <OwenS> So we'll have Shinkansen (Class 395) and TGVs (Eurostars) operating side by side? :P
01:20:31 <TrueBrain> Good night all :)
01:20:40 <energetic> gn8
01:20:46 <energetic> no
01:21:06 <energetic> german/japanese malgev use active railroad
01:21:09 <OwenS> Good night
01:21:11 <glx> OwenS: real highspeed ?
01:21:16 <energetic> AMT passive
01:21:24 <energetic> much cheaper to built
01:21:30 <energetic>
01:21:38 <energetic> they want to built it here in NL
01:21:43 <OwenS> glx: High Speed 1 is real high speed (It's basically an LGV :P )
01:22:04 <energetic> in the port of rotterdam and Schiphol (aitrport) and a new airport in the lake
01:22:24 <energetic> great stuff.
01:23:06 <OwenS> The problem with passive maglev is that a train can't stand still on them
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01:23:32 <energetic> yes, i wonder how they solve that
01:23:39 <glx> using an anchor?
01:23:44 <energetic> prolly good old fashioned wheels flippoing down
01:23:56 <Roujin_> glx: does TTDPatch also accept 255 0 0 to 255 255 0 as vehicle IDs?
01:24:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought the japanese did in passive maglev
01:24:16 <OwenS> But anyway, EMS Maglevs (Transrapid) are about as cheap as traditional rail - if not cheaper - when other considerations are included
01:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and they have to accelerate to 100km/h with normal wheels
01:24:36 <energetic> then AMT is _much_ cheaper
01:24:44 <glx> Roujin_: the wiki is not clear enough :/
01:24:48 <energetic> since TR still use active rails
01:25:04 <glx> and don't want to dig in ttdp source right now
01:25:13 <OwenS> And how do your AMT trains get power?
01:25:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the most expensive part of railway building is the area
01:25:21 <energetic> battery
01:25:28 <energetic> they aint mine btw
01:25:33 <energetic> but check out
01:25:33 <Roujin_> glx: I'm making a single-vehicle grf that lets the user choose the vehicle ID to his liking with a parameter
01:25:35 <energetic>
01:25:37 <Roujin_> using action6
01:25:39 <OwenS> It's an expression
01:25:51 <energetic> it sounds very... uhm...
01:26:20 <energetic> kinda huniliating
01:26:25 <energetic> *humiliating*
01:26:59 <glx> Roujin_: but you can try it with hardcoded > 254 value
01:27:49 <Roujin_> you mean hardcode it with 255 123 0 value and see if it loads in ttdpatch?
01:28:01 <Roujin_> to see if ttdpatch accepts that?
01:28:09 <glx> The <Id> is an extended byte since 2.0.1 alpha 61, to support the definition of >255 sound effects. In OpenTTD since r13482, extended IDs can be used for vehicles as well. However there is currently a caveat that articulated parts must be below 128.
01:28:20 <OwenS> The main problem with powering trains of batteries is, well, that batteries have terrible energy to weight ratios
01:28:30 <glx> so it looks like ttdp doesn't support it for vehicles
01:28:54 <Roujin_> aww.. sad
01:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> <Roujin_> glx: indeed, vehicle id is listed as B*, but does that mean i cannot use 255? <- means you can make FF ?? 00, and then alter the ?? using the action 6
01:29:34 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: that part was known :)
01:29:39 <energetic> OwenS: the main thing about AMT apparently not breaking through in our political system -
01:29:43 * Roujin_ is considering ttdpatch compatibility against the user being able to freely choose any of 65536 IDs...
01:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> ok ;)
01:30:00 <Roujin_> Eddi: thanks, but a bit late ;)
01:30:03 <energetic> - is that AMT apparently solved the economic problem, which is much more important then the technical stuf.
01:30:06 <glx> Roujin_: you can allow it for openttd
01:30:22 <Roujin_> I can even make FF ?? ?? and change the ?? ?? with the action 6
01:30:34 <energetic> by AMT claiming it being cheaper then HS
01:30:55 <energetic> which sounds, if you think about it, quite logically.
01:31:09 <OwenS> So is Transrapid. A study done in the UK found Transrapid much cheaper than conventional rail for a variety of reasons
01:31:33 <OwenS> Much better gradient handling ability, tighter curves, ability to raise track effectively, etc
01:31:38 <energetic> that one sounds irrational, care to elaborate?
01:31:40 <glx> not when it's stopped between 2 stations
01:31:55 <energetic> off course
01:32:03 <Roujin_> glx: by checking if we're running TTDPatch or OpenTTD with some action, and depending on the outcome, skipping this or that pseudosprite, right? ugh, I was hoping on avoiding such :P
01:32:05 <energetic> it has all the advantages of maglev
01:32:31 <energetic> you don't wanna know how much a train wears after one ride
01:32:40 <energetic> (a high speed train, that is)
01:33:05 <energetic> pantograph, suspension, wheels, electrical lines, electrical stuff)
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01:33:29 <energetic> not to mention railways, safety systems
01:34:18 <Roujin_> I would certainly find it more convenient if TTDPatch understood 255 x y but rejected it if y>0 :P
01:34:25 <glx> Roujin_: FF ?? ?? should work in ttdp, you just need to discard user chosen value and use a fixed one
01:35:02 <OwenS> One thing that strikes me about AMT is that there seems to be a lot of infrastructure under the vehicle
01:35:14 <OwenS> Anotehr thing that strikes me is it looses TransRapids' inherent safety
01:35:15 <energetic> "infrastructure under the vehicle"
01:35:17 <energetic> ?
01:35:35 <energetic> what inherent safety?
01:35:37 <OwenS> You see a bunch of equipment, presumably motors, underneath the passenger area
01:35:58 <energetic> AMT doesnt have a production unit yet, TR does
01:36:06 <Roujin_> point is that the ttdpatch guys need the choosing of vehicle ID via parameter more badly than the openTTD guys... those can just set "allow multiple newgrf sets" and be happy :P
01:36:07 <energetic> all stuff of AMT you see is beta
01:36:31 <energetic> (probably one of the reasons they are not taken seriously yet)
01:36:35 <OwenS> And, since a TransRapid's locomotion is powered by the track, then theres no need for any signalling to the cab for safety
01:37:13 <energetic> what 'inherent safety' of TR u talking about?
01:37:21 <OwenS> In TR, the track has the motors
01:37:29 <energetic> yes, active system
01:37:31 <OwenS> The vehicle is just being driven arround by the track
01:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Roujin_: what about simply: "if TTDPatch: y=0; x%=128"?
01:37:51 <OwenS> Therefore, the vehicle can't decide to crash into something else - the track has to drive it into the obstruction
01:38:17 <energetic> nothing inherent safe about.
01:38:35 <Roujin_> uhm.. I think TTDPatch doesn't accept the long format at all
01:38:35 <energetic> the system of AMT can make drones of the vehicles, too
01:38:50 <Roujin_> even if y=0
01:38:50 <energetic> or: the TR system can make 'smart wagons' too.
01:38:53 <OwenS> Yes - but this relies on cab to vehicle communication working
01:39:03 <energetic> TR doesnt?
01:39:07 <OwenS> No.
01:39:11 <OwenS> The track is running the show
01:39:15 <energetic> i doubt that?
01:39:20 <Roujin_> or does it?
01:39:35 <energetic> the main controller needs to know the state of the wagon?
01:39:42 <energetic> hence - it communicates?
01:39:57 <OwenS> Yes. It knows where the wagon is because, if it doesn't, then it can't move it ;-)
01:40:47 <energetic> then both systems are in this aspect simply influenced by the architectural decisions of the main controller.
01:41:20 <energetic> namely: do we make them drones, or smart thinking wagons.
01:41:21 <OwenS> And I still don't know how AMT intends to power the trains. Cause batteries won't work, for reasons of needing to recharge
01:41:43 <energetic> I think they replace the battery at a depot at start/end of line
01:41:53 <energetic> but other then that, its a mystery to me, too.
01:42:17 <energetic> and i doubt they use supercapacitors
01:42:31 <OwenS> They'd be better off inductively transfering the energy to the train
01:42:46 <OwenS> Though, when doing that, your getting perilously close to reinventing Transrapid
01:42:59 <energetic> they are proposing short (~25KM-75KM) routes - wonder if this has to do with technical reasons - ie the battery.
01:43:25 <energetic> i suspect they do - but it may very well have other reasons, too.
01:44:02 <OwenS> Cool thing with Transrapid is, seal the train perfectly, then put it in a vacuum, and it can go ~8000km/h
01:44:10 <energetic> yeah baby
01:44:24 <energetic> transatlantic tunnel
01:44:41 <goodger> OwenS: slight safety issue there
01:45:00 <OwenS> goodger: Yeah, I know. No worse than aircraft though, really
01:45:34 <energetic> xctly.
01:46:07 <OwenS> If a train hits an issue, decelerate them all then flood the tube with air
01:46:52 <energetic> i think a curve in the railway system doing mach 8 will be as big as NL though
01:46:55 <goodger> OwenS: explosive decompression is not so much an issue when there is air (though low-pressure) as when there is only vacuum
01:47:16 <energetic> a curve of say, 45 deg
01:47:32 <OwenS> goodger: Thats why you have a high pressure air tunnel nearby to flood with
01:47:49 <OwenS> OK, low pressure air, ~6000km/h
01:47:50 <goodger> oh, so now you need five tunnels instead of three
01:48:17 <OwenS> If you have one tunnel per direction, then you only need one more - and it'll likely be useful for maintainance purposes any way
01:48:24 <OwenS> The air pressure doesn't have to be much above atmospheric
01:48:26 <goodger> and some sort of seal mechanism to segment the tunnel
01:48:53 <energetic> i think those systems will be used on other planets only, where resources are available
01:49:23 <OwenS> We'll be living on other planets? We haven't found one hospitable to human life yet
01:49:27 <energetic> it would drain too much on earthly resources to get a decent system upnrunning
01:49:44 <energetic> i didnt say it would be used for humans :o
01:49:48 <OwenS> I find it likely we'll build space colonies - space colonies which will mine asteroids
01:50:08 <OwenS> The average near earth asteroid has something like 100 times our yearly extraction of many metals
01:50:14 <goodger> why mining asteroids?
01:50:18 <goodger> they move about!
01:50:20 <energetic> why not?
01:50:25 <goodger> and they're tiny
01:50:32 <energetic> once we have that spacelift
01:50:35 <goodger> mine planets and jovian moons instead
01:50:36 <OwenS> Exactly - asteroids don't have gravity!
01:50:43 <OwenS> Gravitys a blooming pain
01:50:45 <goodger> even worse
01:50:47 <energetic> mining asteroids will be cheaper then mining on earth
01:51:04 <goodger> how do you mine something without gravity? you'd have to bolt the mining equipment to the asteroid
01:51:15 <OwenS> And if you mine the moon, you have to be careful to avoid creating an atmosphere of dust on it
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01:51:30 <OwenS> goodger, And bolting to the asteroid is a problem?
01:51:36 <energetic> lol
01:52:42 <OwenS> Any company which managed to mine asteroids would very quickly be able to collapse all of the Earth's mining companies
01:53:04 <energetic> depends what they mine
01:53:08 <glx> Roujin_: I have a simple test grf (works in openttd, now I'll try in ttdp)
01:53:32 <OwenS> Asteroid mining also doesn't have to worry about messing up the environment :p
01:53:33 <Roujin_> anyway, i'm leaving my action6 now like it is, so the user will only be able to choose IDs 0 to 254 <-- that's what I just wanted to say, but now I wait what glx is up about
01:53:36 <Sacro> I have a nut allergy. When I was at school, the other kids played Russian roulette with me by force-feeding me a packet of Revels.
01:54:02 <OwenS> Sacro, that was random O_o
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01:54:09 <energetic> indeed :D
01:54:49 <OwenS> Anyway, the easy way with Revels is to eat the disk shaped ones :p
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01:55:07 <Roujin_> what exactly does it test glx? if ttdpatch reads vehicle IDs in the D* format (e.g. FF [something] 00) ?
01:55:20 <Roujin_> B* i mean
01:55:59 <glx> yes and it does
01:56:20 <glx>
01:56:26 <glx> power changed for both
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01:56:37 <energetic> Owen: any way to convince plitics they should pursue maglev?
01:57:41 <goodger> energetic: yeah. bribe them with more money than the car industry
01:58:09 <goodger> "this will replace the M1 by being four times the speed at half the cost!" is not the way to do it
01:58:30 <energetic> well its clear trains are cheaper then buolding motorways
01:58:35 <energetic> that was never an issue
01:58:52 <energetic> new however is that a newer type of rail is cheaper then the preceding one
01:59:24 <OwenS> I don't know. UK Ultraspeed are working on it here :p
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01:59:37 <energetic> ,maglev?
01:59:42 <OwenS> Yeah
01:59:44 <OwenS> TransRapid
01:59:51 <energetic> where?
01:59:59 <glx> Roujin_: but it indeed complains for FF 08 01 ;)
02:00:02 <OwenS>
02:00:22 <energetic> looool
02:00:34 <energetic> they use.... kmh in an UK website?
02:00:43 <energetic> that sounds really odd
02:00:47 <goodger> energetic: it's a bigger number
02:00:58 <OwenS> :p
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02:01:05 <energetic> but no one knows what kmh is in uk
02:01:07 <goodger> energetic: put a pair of like-poled magnets under a train and stick a linear motor on the back and you have a zero-friction movement system
02:01:14 <goodger> energetic: precisely. it sounds even bigger that way
02:01:22 <goodger> s/back/side/
02:01:31 <energetic> i know how maglev works
02:01:54 <energetic> but the coolest maglev project
02:02:17 <energetic> is the one of some japanese prof, inventing a maglev system to replace subways
02:02:32 <energetic> a maglev escalator
02:02:36 <energetic> only flat
02:02:46 <goodger> heh, how ludicrous
02:02:55 <OwenS> We have them at airports :p
02:03:02 <energetic> right
02:03:08 <energetic> except the maglev part
02:03:11 <OwenS> Yeah :p
02:03:25 <goodger> trying to implement a horizontal escalator at any speed above walking pace will just cause people to fall over
02:03:30 <energetic> some parts of the topyo subway system are that bvusy
02:03:39 <energetic> that they cant add more trains
02:03:50 <energetic> hence they need something better
02:03:57 <energetic> solution: maglev escalator
02:04:03 <goodger> so make the trains run faster
02:04:07 <goodger> problem solved
02:04:08 <energetic> impossible
02:04:18 <goodger> or make it a continually looping train
02:04:23 <energetic> they have
02:04:32 <goodger> right then, problem solved also
02:04:36 <goodger> no escalator required
02:04:37 <energetic> no
02:04:38 <OwenS> goodger: In other words an EMU with no end? :p
02:04:45 <energetic> since they need _more_ capacity
02:04:49 <OwenS> Just a big circle of carriages
02:04:54 <goodger> OwenS: precisement
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02:05:07 <energetic> problem: train needs to stop
02:05:10 <Roujin_> glx: sorry, took until now to fully understand your test grf ;)
02:05:23 <glx> is it that hard?
02:05:25 <glx> :)
02:05:26 <Roujin_> but thanks for testing that :)
02:05:32 <Roujin_> no, I am that bad ;)
02:05:40 <goodger> energetic: no it doesn't. paternosters and the london eye do not stop,
02:05:44 <Roujin_> this is my first newgrf I'm making
02:05:50 <glx> ha ok
02:06:06 <glx> I only written test grfs so far
02:06:09 <goodger> the system could just move along at a small multiple of walking pace so that people can catch it easily
02:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> they made experiments once with "moving platforms"
02:06:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. increasingly faster "escalators" towards the rim
02:06:33 <goodger> or, close the doors, move very quickly a distance equal to the length of the platform, and then stop, and open the doors
02:06:40 <Roujin_> I cannot yet "read" nfo just like this, have to look up everything, so I was tabbing all the time between the pastebin and the tiki ;)
02:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> so the speed difference at the rim matches the speed of the train
02:07:24 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause2: I completely fail to understand. do you have a URL?
02:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> but you'll need extremely long platforms this way
02:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> sorry, no link
02:07:43 <goodger> :S
02:07:47 <OwenS> Anyway guys
02:07:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> was a tv show i watched years ago...
02:07:48 <OwenS> Night
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02:07:56 <goodger> night
02:08:18 <Roujin_> plus I made the mistake of interpreting the action column as the length column, and the column after that as the action column
02:08:28 <energetic> gn
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02:08:48 <energetic> eddi: i saw a triple speed escalator in 10m
02:08:55 <energetic> going upto 20KPH
02:09:03 <glx> Roujin_: just ignore things around tha stars ;)
02:09:38 <Roujin_> it fits for the first line.. there are three bytes after the 03 ^^
02:09:58 <Roujin_> you mean to not care about them and use nforenum, correct?
02:10:11 <glx> yes
02:10:25 <Roujin_> i've not yet downloaded it, set those by hand until now :P
02:11:18 <glx> well use -1 * 0
02:11:36 <glx> nforenum will 'fix' it
02:13:00 <glx> though grfcodec doesn't care either ;)
02:13:43 <glx> but it still safer to check the nfo with nforenum
02:14:01 <Roujin_> hmm, the tiki doesn't mention B* to be usable for action 4...
02:14:15 <Roujin_> action 4's <offset> to be precise
02:14:59 <glx> because it's different
02:15:22 <Roujin_> but it has to be usable (at least in OpenTTD) or else vehicles with IDs > 255 couldn't be named, or am I wrong?
02:15:58 <Roujin_> oh, it says "For vehicle IDs (language-id bit 7 is clear), this is a byte value, except for OpenTTD since r13482, where it is an extended byte value."
02:16:08 <Roujin_> extended byte == B*, i assume
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02:18:05 <Roujin_> so there TTDPatch does not accept extended byte notation, in contrast to action 0 and 3? :/
02:18:37 <glx> ottd reads an extended byte for vehicles
02:18:55 <glx> and it's a B* :)
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02:19:08 <Roujin_> also accepted by TTDPatch?
02:19:22 <glx> dunno I can test
02:19:25 <Eddi|zuHause> then you'll have to make two actions, and skip one in case of TTDPatch, and the other skipped in case of OpenTTD
02:19:45 <Roujin_> glx: I'd be grateful :)
02:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> or am i again answering the wrong question?
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02:20:29 <Roujin_> Eddi: if ttdpatch also accept B* format, I can leave out such (which I hope)
02:22:13 <Roujin_> The only difference will be that openttd will accept it when the user sets a value >255 as parameter, and TTDPatch will disable the grf then. (it should, at least..)
02:24:07 <Roujin_> another plus is that if at some point they decide to implement vehicle IDs up to 65535, my grf is upwards compatible :)
02:24:42 <Roujin_> (they meaning in TTDPatch)
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02:27:09 <glx> Roujin_: it accept the grf but doesn't change the vehicle name
02:27:59 <Roujin_> even for IDs <255 in extended byte notation? (255 123 0)
02:28:31 <glx> I tried FF 08 00 (Chaney 'Jubilee' (Steam) )
02:28:39 <Roujin_> aww, that's sad :(
02:28:45 <glx> in openttd it's renamed to "test"
02:29:14 <glx> but ttdp didn't said the sprite was not valid
02:29:21 <Roujin_> strange
02:29:30 <Roujin_> maybe a ttdp bug?
02:31:39 <glx> or a missing check :)
02:31:55 <glx> anyway extended byte doesn't work
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02:32:57 <glx> I guess it replaced vehicle FF name with 8
02:33:31 <Wolf01> 'night
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02:34:20 <Roujin_> wow
02:34:58 <Tim_> man, it's so confusing that declaring a variable as integer and declaring a function look almost the same -.-
02:35:05 <Roujin_> should changing a newgrf in game be able to cause a fatal application failure and openttd to shut down as soon as soon as I hit "apply"?
02:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
02:35:52 <glx> can happen, but should not be as fatal
02:36:11 <glx> unless the newgrf is highly broken :)
02:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you mean "before that big red window is shown"
02:36:34 <Roujin_> really? I thought OpenTTD could catch this and disable the newgrf instead
02:36:53 <glx> depends on what the newgrf changes
02:36:58 <Roujin_> eddi: err, no, after bluntly ignoring the warning of course :)
02:37:33 <Roujin_> I guess my action 6s are a bit off somewhere and changed something vital :)
02:37:55 <Eddi|zuHause> action 6s are evil
02:38:21 <Roujin_> wow, but that error window is awesome, it features an "emergency save" button :O
02:38:30 <Roujin_> (never seen it before ^_^)
02:38:32 <glx> normal crash
02:38:36 <glx> check the log
02:39:15 <Roujin_> Reason: Assertion failed at c:\openttd\compile\src\oldpool.h:125: index < this->GetSize()
02:39:46 <glx> typical
02:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> such an assert is useless without a stacktrace
02:40:40 <glx> less things in a pool after newgrf modification
02:41:11 <glx> no need for a stack trace (he played with newgrf window)
02:41:53 <Roujin_> ah, so my grf isn't even wrong
02:42:25 <Roujin_> i deliberately changed the id to something that's already used by another set to test it (if the setting works correctly)
02:42:37 <Roujin_> without "multiple newgrf sets" activated
02:43:01 <Roujin_> didn't think it would assert on that..
02:43:02 <glx> so you overwritten an existing engine, thus reducing the amount of engines
02:43:10 <Roujin_> yup that makes sense
02:43:44 <Roujin_> and so, this crash finally proves -> it works :D
02:44:16 <glx> well now you need to check it actually remplaced what you wanted :)
02:47:19 <Roujin_> well, entering something >255 doesn't result in an error, so everything should work correctly now..
02:47:52 <Roujin_> but, since that B* seems not to work with TTDPatch on Action4, I think I'll revert it to B again...
02:48:36 <glx> <-- these ranges are important in ttdp
02:52:51 <Roujin_> hmm so in TTDPatch roadvehs can only have IDs 00 to 57...
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02:53:25 <Roujin_> Maybe I shouldn't use F9 as default then...
02:53:42 <Roujin_> (i chose F9 since eGrvts by Zephyris uses 00 through F8)
02:54:23 <Roujin_> aww, screw that, I assume most OpenTTD players will turn on "allow multiple newGrf sets" nowadays anyways :)
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04:46:04 <Sacro> We need a cllean of General OpenTTD
04:46:17 <Sacro> so many topics that should be in suggestions/problems/screenshot topic/development forum
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05:20:51 <George> OTTD devs! I hope FS 2521 would not be hard to code. Could you please provide it in this nighty (or make a personal win32 version for me if you do not find it safe to put it in trunck), so I could test some ideas I have? PLEASE!
05:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... how do i sensibly draw a graph with 700000 edges?
05:27:39 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: dot!
05:27:40 <goodger> :D
05:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> let me specify this: with dot, so that i get an image that i can actually open in an image viewer
05:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, not need to wait 4h till dot finishes...
05:31:16 <goodger> yeah, I know :S
05:31:32 <goodger> I think that might not be possible
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10:05:21 <Wolf01> hello
10:08:45 <petern> George, how can 8 be 8 and -8 at the same time?
10:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> with goodger's bits ;)
10:10:07 <goodger> shush
10:10:28 <goodger> I'm trying to write a press release
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10:12:45 <petern> leave his bits out of it
10:29:06 <Wolf01> which foundation uses SLOPE_N? FOUNDATION_INCLINED_Y/X (based on the axis of the track) or what?
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10:46:46 <Alberth> petern: by interpreting the 3 bits sometimes as signed and sometimes as unsigned?
10:47:00 <Alberth> euh 4 bits of course
10:47:48 <planetmaker> good day OpenTTD :)
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10:52:48 <el_en> # Ich will Sternenteile essen ♪
10:54:28 <Eddi|zuHause> good luck with that :p
10:54:41 <planetmaker> pretty hot stuff, I guess ;)
10:55:22 <planetmaker> Alberth: congratulations on your good re-work of the advanced settings GUI :)
10:55:36 <Alberth> tnx
10:56:13 <planetmaker> looks good and is nicely extensible :) - so fit for future :)
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11:07:55 <Alberth> Nicely extensible was one of the main driving factors for this solution. Some of your thanks should also go to Rubidium for pushing me in this direction; my original approach was much more modest, but he demanded a better solution :)
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11:34:31 <planetmaker> Hehe. Yeah, that's his way. But he's good at it :) And it's his task :)
11:38:04 <TrueBrain> morning all :)
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11:40:13 <planetmaker> morning TB :)
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11:50:46 <Wolf01> uhm... I think I really need help
11:52:08 <TrueBrain> haha ... sounds like you have a mental breakdown :)
11:52:20 <Wolf01> I do
11:52:32 <Wolf01> but that's another story
11:52:48 <TrueBrain> for that there are people who get paid ;)
11:53:08 <Wolf01> I can't get the train behave like a normal slope on stations placed on SLOPE_N/W/E/S
11:53:28 <Wolf01> on SLOPE_NW/NE/SW/SE works like a charm
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11:53:42 <Rubidium> GetSlope returns the wrong value?
11:53:45 <Wolf01> but on the first slope it doesn't
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11:54:15 <Wolf01> seem, so
11:54:36 <Wolf01> but the point is that I tried to copy the GetSlopeZ for tracks
11:54:46 <Wolf01> and seem to do the same things
11:55:06 <Rubidium> then you're screwed and you need to screw with the train controller
11:55:23 <Wolf01> instead of track bits I used InclinedFoundation(axis)
11:55:38 <Wolf01> eh, instead of GetRailFoundation(tileh, GetTrackBits(tile))
11:56:14 <Rubidium> try converting the axis to trackbits and pass that to GetRailFoundation
11:56:17 <petern> right, i should try to diagnose this networking bug
11:56:29 <Rubidium> what networking bug?
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11:58:28 <petern> the one i spoke about at 9pm (GMT) yesterday
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11:59:32 <Rubidium> hmm... desync due to restart; seems to be related to FS#2446 I'd reckon
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12:01:35 <Tim> Morning
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12:02:37 <TrueBrain> morning Tim
12:02:47 <Wolf01> oh, good, now it works
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12:03:55 <TrueBrain> so what am I going to do this day ...
12:03:56 <TrueBrain> hmm ..
12:04:10 <Tim> Can we provide a wishlist? :)
12:04:39 <TrueBrain> sure thing
12:04:41 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: what about having dinner?
12:04:44 <TrueBrain> just know I am not a trunk-developer ;)
12:04:57 <TrueBrain> that for sure, but that in 5 hours or so
12:05:32 <Rexxars> *gasp* you're not a trunk developer?
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12:05:44 <Tim> I thought so too...
12:05:49 <TrueBrain> .... people are weird :)
12:06:22 <TrueBrain> find my latest src/* commit ;) :p
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12:07:57 <Wolf01> ok, now the hardest part: don't allow road bays to be built facing the slope :O
12:08:18 <Tim> Hehe
12:08:20 <Wolf01> but roadstops are allowed
12:08:24 <Tim> Those sloped stations are cool :)
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12:09:10 <Wolf01> the best is all works already, it only needs some little tweaking
12:09:15 <Wolf01> *that all
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12:09:54 <Terkhen> hello
12:10:12 <TrueBrain> hello Terkhen
12:11:31 <frosch123> haha, who added a screenshot of the new advanced settings to the wiki before they were shuffled another time
12:11:53 <TrueBrain> look it up ;)
12:12:07 <frosch123> Roujin :)
12:13:54 <Wolf01> two new buttons might be useful now: collapse and expand all
12:16:14 <Tim> What has been changed in comparison to that picture?
12:16:30 <Tim> Oh wait, no, i can compile OpenTTD myself and look it up :D
12:17:04 <frosch123> fs#2523 also sounds reasonable :p
12:17:19 <Rubidium> frosch123: go for it ;)
12:17:44 <frosch123> I hoped there would pile up more first :)
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12:20:45 <Alberth> Suddenly everybody wants to shuffle the options :D
12:21:06 <Tim> Ofc
12:21:09 <Tim> :)
12:21:25 <Tim> putting all of them together like you suggested would be nice :)
12:25:18 <TrueBrain> lot of cargodest 'bugs' :p
12:27:15 <Alberth> Tim: I don't think there is a single solution that make everybody happy. Many settings can be put at several places.
12:28:46 <TrueBrain> make a setting to change the settings layout
12:29:22 * Rubidium wants a setting to disable people's stupid comments and wants it turned on
12:29:49 <TrueBrain> @kick Rubidium granted
12:29:49 *** Rubidium was kicked by DorpsGek (granted)
12:30:01 <planetmaker> :D
12:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i think +q or +m would have been more appropriate
12:31:49 <TrueBrain> no, doesn't keep him from receiving the comments
12:31:54 <TrueBrain> or none of us can talk :)
12:31:59 <TrueBrain> so this was really the only solution :)
12:33:30 <Tim> :D
12:42:57 <TrueBrain> I hate being bored :p I should study for this exam .. but bleh :p
12:42:59 <Forked> could still /msg him :p
12:43:15 <TrueBrain> Forked: if you want a /ignore, that is the way to go, yes :p
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12:43:35 <joachim> from when is oil wells/rigs built in temperate?
12:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
12:45:03 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you broke it :(
12:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> oil wells are there from the start, oil rigs start around 1970 or something
12:45:23 <TrueBrain> I broke who?
12:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> IT, as in Information Technology
12:45:59 <Rubidium> no, the setting to disable stupid comments and the like
12:46:29 <joachim> hm, thought so.
12:46:38 <TrueBrain> yeah ... /invite tends to break that setting yes
12:46:43 <joachim> no oil wells in my game though
12:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you need enough water around the map, of course
12:47:38 <joachim> for wells?
12:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause> no, for rigs
12:49:22 <joachim> oh, there were wells in the earlier saves. they've all closed
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12:50:54 <Wolf01> is there a way to know the type of the station which is being built from the StationID?
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12:54:12 <frosch123> you mean p2 of CmdBuildRailroadStation ?
12:54:47 <Wolf01> no, I need it on CheckFlatLandBelow
12:55:34 <frosch123> If the station is not yet built, you have to pass p2 resp. the StationSpec to it
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13:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: sure, i can set waiting time to infinite, but then i am still not notified about a potential deadlock
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13:16:20 <Wolf01> ok, now it works, missing features: make vehicles following the slope on the roadstops, make the track/road of the stations following the slope and remove the foundations when not needed
13:16:53 <petern> -ing, twice
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13:17:03 <George> petern: -t can't, that's why I wrote [F]. For triplet 1 byte is neded (17 values possible), for pair it is only 9, so 4 bits are enought
13:17:07 <TrueBrain> miss features?
13:17:08 <TrueBrain> :p
13:17:20 <Wolf01> no, I think he meant follow-ing
13:17:49 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: no shit? :)
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13:23:33 <frosch123> George: read my new comment in fs?
13:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> well, after Miss Fortune and Miss Understanding, why shouldn't there be a Miss Feature?
13:24:07 <George> frosch123: not yet
13:26:54 <George> frosch123: would this work 65 * 4 01 01 01 _01_ ?
13:27:17 <frosch123> when you specifiy only one sprite it will be used for all orientations
13:28:56 <George> frosch123: > active vehicle and for the front (i.e. related) vehicle you can calculate a height difference to the front vehicle. -> when I have only 2 units - yes, but dolphin bus would have 6 units. I can't compare 5-th and 1-th units.
13:29:10 <George> I mean parts
13:29:40 <frosch123> with "related" you can always access the first one
13:29:53 <George> hou can I calculate dH for the 4-th and 5-th parts?
13:30:14 <frosch123> no that won't work :)
13:30:30 <George> That's why I asked for a var
13:31:48 <TrueBrain> planes flying backwards
13:31:50 <TrueBrain> I love speed :)
13:32:07 <George> And about using the fnearest part - it solves the problem with slopes, but does not with tunnels
13:33:22 <petern> TrueBrain?
13:33:36 <TrueBrain> my plane was going so fast
13:33:41 <TrueBrain> it looks like it is going backwards :)
13:33:56 <petern> i see
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13:37:17 <TrueBrain> @calc 384 + 64
13:37:17 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 448
13:38:38 <glx> you're lazy (this can be done in head easily)
13:41:16 <Wolf01> vehicles follow the slope too now, the drawing code is a bit too complicate for me, I don't know if I'm able to change it
13:46:27 <petern> the drawing and integrating with newgrf is the hardest part :p
13:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... someone was discussing that yesterday:
13:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> object.__nonzero__(self)¶
13:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Called to implement truth value testing, and the built-in operation bool(); should return False or True, or their integer equivalents 0 or 1. When this method is not defined, __len__() is called, if it is defined (see below). If a class defines neither __len__() nor __nonzero__(), all its instances are considered true.
13:48:30 <frosch123> Wolf01: just change the call to DrawFoundation
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13:50:10 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: was something with 'if None' iirc
13:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. i know.
13:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i was just mentioning it, because i stumbled over that definition
13:51:20 <Alberth> so what's the verdict? Should we submit a bug report to Python for implementing __nonzero__() on None?
13:59:58 <Eddi|zuHause> why the hell would you do that?
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14:02:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14989 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: remove a lookup table by reordering some items in english.txt (Swallow)
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14:09:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14990 /trunk/src/ (order_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: handle articulated RVs and trams more strictly in GetStationTileForVehicle and CanVehicleUseStation (based on idea by Swallow)
14:11:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14991 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix: Command-flags is an uint32.
14:15:47 <TrueBrain> why do trains not self-regulate themself :(
14:16:02 <TrueBrain> how ever you distribute them .. after a while they all go after eachother to the same station :(
14:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why you apply the timetable management patch and enable autospacing
14:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause> or "headway"
14:17:54 <TrueBrain> headway?
14:17:58 <TrueBrain> and url?
14:18:16 <Rubidium> ?
14:18:32 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you know I am lazy
14:19:49 <TrueBrain> the other solution is to just put N trains on a route from station A to station B
14:19:59 <TrueBrain> and not what I do now, from station A, to B, to C, to B, to D, to B
14:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i also have no idea what the word "headway" means
14:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but it does what you want it to do
14:21:37 <frosch123> [15:21] <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you know I am lazy <-
14:23:35 <OwenS> letmegooglethatforyou takes far too long to type
14:25:24 <TrueBrain> too bad the patch fails for cargodest (well, latest cargodest)
14:25:44 * TrueBrain slaps PhilSophus .. fix that
14:26:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14992 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Rename 'CheckIfAuthorityAllows' to 'CheckIfAuthorityAllowsNewStation' and unduplicate a tiny bit of code.
14:27:43 <TrueBrain> oh well .. any sane network with PBS and cargodest becomes impossible without something like that ..
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14:32:09 <TrueBrain> bah ... and still OpenTTD has this annoying features that at signal blocks the vehicle with the lowest vehicle ID or something goes first ..
14:32:13 <TrueBrain> instead of the one waiting the longest ..
14:36:30 <OwenS> More annoying is that we still have reversing at red signals
14:36:39 <Progman> OwenS:
14:36:55 <TrueBrain> can't you give a very high number to avoid that, OwenS?
14:36:59 <TrueBrain> but I agree with you, yes
14:37:02 <OwenS> Thats an excellent way to jam a network with both PBS and block signals
14:37:16 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: how hard would it be to change the problem with signals nowedays?
14:37:31 <TrueBrain> I guess the way signals work should be changed .. and something should track how long a train is waiting ..
14:38:12 <TrueBrain> OwenS: more annoying I find with PBS, they turn once in front of a red signal, can't find a free path reversed (as signals in my networks don't allow that), and they seem to wait for ever ....
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14:43:15 <TrueBrain> = 255 at least makes it never turn for a PBS signal ..
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14:43:59 <frosch123> there you have your tracking how long a train has been waiting
14:44:33 <TrueBrain> indeed
14:44:43 <TrueBrain> so only the signal behavoir should be changed ;)
14:44:52 <snappy> Im running openttd on mac osx, i created a dir ~/ttd and put the in there. I have a data/ dir with the GRF files and a gm dir with the GM files (they're actually symlinks to the corresponding directories after unzipping transport tycoon). Anyways, I can't seem to get the music to play. I'm finding it unclear where the .gm files should reside in the directory. Anyone mind clueing me in?
14:45:01 <TrueBrain> anyway, bbl :)
14:46:26 <snappy> oh nevermind, looks like it's working now.
14:49:36 <OwenS> TrueBrain: I find they only turn in front of block signals, then get stuck in a PBS block
14:49:58 <Aali> you can make trains never turn around in front of signals in latest trunk
14:50:47 <Aali> @commit 14852
14:50:47 <DorpsGek> Aali: Commit by michi_cc :: r14852 /trunk/src (settings.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2009-01-05 20:29:05 UTC)
14:50:48 <DorpsGek> Aali: -Feature: Automatic reversing in front of block signals can now be disabled by setting pf.wait_oneway_signal respectively pf.wait_twoway_signal to 255.
14:54:37 <OwenS> Why, at Helistations, will heilos land and enter the hanger rather than landing on a platform/flying around waiting for one in the air
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14:57:46 <frosch123> all airports with hangars do that
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15:03:08 <OwenS> It's incredibly annoying cause my hanger fills up with choppers
15:03:39 <OwenS> And also choppers leaving a depot lock the pads early and take forever, creaing more jams
15:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> time for a bigger station, i suppose
15:04:29 <OwenS> Is there anything with more pads than a Helistation?
15:06:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if you finish newgrf_ports :p
15:06:46 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, i have no idea
15:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i never ever built a heliport since the new airports got introduced
15:07:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i never built a heliport at all in TTD
15:08:23 * frosch123 transports valuabes by heli sometimes
15:09:32 <SmatZ> frosch123: good idea, it is much safer... one can hijack transport van, but helis are much harder to hijack
15:10:31 <frosch123> esp. when the heli is more valueable :p
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15:40:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14993 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14957, r14975): Do not reverse the train with OT_LEAVESTATION as that breaks PBS prediction.
15:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> what?
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15:56:38 <snappy> hmm, my first time playing openttd. Im trying to setup a bus service between two cities. I can't build a depot or a station?
15:57:03 <snappy> it's greyed out, can someone fill me in as to why? I don't recall this happening in ttdlx
15:57:48 <frosch123> no roadvehicles available yet?
15:58:39 <frosch123> first bus of default road vehicles is available about 1930 in temperate climate
15:58:53 <snappy> ahh
15:59:00 <snappy> yeah i started at 1900
15:59:03 <snappy> what was i thinking heh.
15:59:19 <TrueBrain> you might want to consider starting in 1950
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16:17:37 <den> hi people
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16:18:36 <TrueBrain> hi den
16:20:40 * Zuu get to think of Matlab when he reads "den" in an English speaking environment
16:23:57 * frosch123 cannot find a connection of "den" to "matlab"
16:24:16 <TrueBrain> frosch123: Zuu is the connection :)
16:24:18 <den> =/
16:24:25 <Rubidium> density for plotting stuff?
16:24:43 <den> what you mean?
16:25:04 <Zuu> frosch123: num and den are used as variables for what is found upper/lower of a division line.
16:25:06 <frosch123> most important function for me was always "accumarray" or similiar...
16:28:31 <Zuu> A quick google tells me that the step function of Matlab takes num and den as parameters.
16:30:22 <snappy> Is there a way to bookmark a location on the map in game for easy access later? I keep forgetting which cities i build roads in
16:30:45 <frosch123> use an additional viewport
16:30:57 <TrueBrain> Place a sign
16:30:58 <frosch123> it's in a submenu of the "map" icon
16:31:11 <joachim> or sign list
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16:33:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14994 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#Aali]: Better handling of OT_LOADING and OT_LEAVESTATION in ChooseTrainTrack.
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16:36:10 <snappy> ah thanks
16:37:33 <Alberth> snappy: rename the town
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16:46:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14995 /branches/noai/ (229 files in 20 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14928:14994
16:46:50 <den> who used ubuntu?
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16:52:18 <OwenS> I use KUbuntu
16:52:21 *** Bennythen00b has left #openttd
16:53:17 <den> OwenS: where located openttd grf?)
16:53:29 <den> i can't find)
16:54:04 <glx> used openttd "installer" ?
16:54:04 <Digitalfox> I wonder if today I'll download nightly r15000... =0
16:54:09 <den> yeap
16:54:10 <OwenS> ~/.openttd/data
16:54:15 <den> tnx
16:54:18 <glx> OwenS: wrong
16:54:36 <glx> it's somewhere in /usr
16:54:48 <den> glx: heh)))
16:54:54 <OwenS> ~/.openttd/data works also
16:55:03 <glx> but openttd grf is not there
16:55:26 <OwenS> $locate openttd should help :p
16:55:35 <glx> as it's provided by openttd bundle
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16:57:37 <den> fuck=(
16:58:16 <den> YEAH) /usr/share/games/openttd
16:59:58 <Rubidium> openttd.grf means "very ancient" openttd
17:01:01 <den> !password
17:01:01 *** den was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
17:01:23 <OwenS> lol, was that automated? Or did someone /msg
17:01:41 <TrueBrain> try it
17:01:48 <OwenS> No thanks :P
17:01:58 <KillaloT> omg
17:02:02 <KillaloT> !password
17:02:02 *** KillaloT was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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17:02:23 <TrueBrain> stupid
17:02:36 <KillaloT> what's openttdcoop?
17:02:38 <OwenS> It sends invides also? :p
17:02:45 <OwenS>
17:03:06 <KillaloT> it's because there's some IRC commands
17:03:10 <KillaloT>
17:03:24 <OwenS> KillaloT, I know the #ottdc IRC commands =)
17:03:48 <TrueBrain> I know the ones here :p
17:04:03 <KillaloT> openTDDcoop , is a version where you can run on eachothers rails? or something? :D
17:04:46 <Zuu> KillaloT: In one sense yes, because all use the same company :)
17:05:07 <KillaloT> ahh ok
17:05:18 <KillaloT> unlimited money?
17:05:21 <OwenS> One company with presently £2.3bil cash
17:05:29 <Zuu> But it is not a special version of OpenTTD, just plain nightly versions.
17:05:39 <frosch123> KillaloT: "Boldly building what other only dare to dream"
17:05:44 <planetmaker> KillaloT: even single player has unlimited money after <10 years.
17:05:51 <KillaloT> :P
17:06:14 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: at 1024x1024 even after 1 year ... planes at 1/1 speed :)
17:06:18 <OwenS> All legitimately earned, lots illegitimately spent on bribing local authorities
17:06:28 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: yes, For example :)
17:06:37 <planetmaker> But doesn't work necessarily in 1920 or so.
17:06:42 <TrueBrain> true :)
17:06:43 <planetmaker> So, it depends upon settings
17:06:57 <planetmaker> or rather map
17:07:18 <OwenS> Can I request a setting which prevents people spending > £25m? :P
17:07:36 <Zuu> OwenS: How would that setting work?
17:07:56 <OwenS> I don't know exactly. It would just stop people flattening maps
17:07:58 <Zuu> Blocking all commands that result in more than 25 milion pounds?
17:08:01 <Rubidium> OwenS: no, because then I can't buy an icecream this summer
17:08:23 <OwenS> Rubidium: The £ isnt that bad quite yet :p
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17:19:21 <TrueBrain> boring
17:23:42 <planetmaker> Zuu: does your filter signs patch require the widget focus patch or can it be used independently?
17:24:06 <planetmaker> And: can you post a hg version? Or is that already one you posted in the tt-forums?
17:24:39 <Zuu> planetmaker: The filter signs patch could be used without filter sign list with minor modifications.
17:24:43 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: a 'hg' version? Are they different to 'svn' versions? :)
17:24:57 <Zuu> without focus widget*
17:25:05 <UFO64> what can hg do that svn wont do anyway? I
17:25:07 <UFO64> I
17:25:20 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: yes: patch -p1 as opposed to patch -p0 ;) And with queues the -p1 doesn't need modification
17:25:22 <UFO64> I'd never seen it till recently, then suddenly it keeps poping up
17:25:30 <TrueBrain> sigh ....
17:25:41 <planetmaker> I could just put it into my queues directory without any work ;)
17:25:50 <planetmaker> and edit the series file
17:26:01 <Zuu> planetmaker: I have posted a hg queue patch in the tt-forums thread
17:26:04 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: svn checkout svn:// && hg init && hg add * && hg commit && patch -p0 < yourpatch && hg diff > newpatch
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17:26:07 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: easy as pie ;)
17:26:19 <Zuu> for the step from widget focus to filter sign list
17:27:00 <planetmaker> Zuu: yes. I found that. But it's not the latest one? Or did I overlook something?
17:27:01 <Aali> TrueBrain: that makes no sense
17:27:05 <Aali> however
17:27:25 <Aali> hg qnew && patch -p0 < oldpatch && hg qrefresh will do nicely
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17:27:50 <TrueBrain> Aali: might make no sense to you, works like a charm
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17:28:03 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: not with hg queues.
17:28:27 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: mind that you create a temporary new hg :) So all it does, is convert a -p0 patch to a -p1 patch ;)
17:28:30 <Zuu> planetmaker: Filter Sign List has not changed since that version. After that version only changes have been done to the widget focus part.
17:28:45 <planetmaker> there Aali certainly has the better line. But just overwriting the old diff in .hg/patches is way easier even ;)
17:28:55 <planetmaker> Zuu: thx, ok
17:29:12 <Zuu> Filter sign list is mostly only in misc_gui.cpp, so it is not that much affected by changes in trunk.
17:30:20 <Zuu> planetmaker: Are you going to test it without focus or does it conflict with some other patches you use?
17:31:53 <planetmaker> Zuu: I'm just updating my client_patches repo. The widget focus doesn't hurt there, so I would want it in along with it. The versions I have / had are old enough so that they need an update.
17:32:17 <planetmaker> And I am somewhat confused what requirement the new releases have since january 3rd.
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17:32:42 <energetic> What is the chance a patch gets included in the main trunk
17:32:48 <planetmaker> where I just took the widget_focus+filter_signs from your hg queues which you posted
17:32:54 <TrueBrain> 12%
17:32:59 <planetmaker> energetic: 0%...100%
17:33:05 <energetic> the patch being clearly coded, and the functionality desirable?
17:33:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
17:33:15 <planetmaker> define "desirable"
17:33:20 <energetic> lotsa ppl want it
17:33:26 <TrueBrain> in that case: 13%!
17:33:29 <Aali> define "clearly coded"
17:33:33 <planetmaker> :P
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17:33:43 <energetic> clearly coded -> coded follwing the coding guidelines
17:33:48 <Rubidium> "lotsa ppl want it" reduces the chance considerably
17:33:49 <Aali> define "functionality"
17:33:52 <Zuu> amount of changed lines are important also
17:33:59 <Zuu> is*
17:34:18 <Rubidium> and the sanity of the patch
17:34:25 <Rubidium> and the reviewability
17:34:28 <TrueBrain> energetic: I think it is more a question: does any developer think it is a desirable patch ;)
17:35:15 <frosch123> chances are higher if it is a "yet another..." patch
17:35:27 <planetmaker> hehe...
17:35:27 <energetic> --> Kurt wants to spend a lot of time implementing a new/improved division algo. But before, he wants to know what the chances are - he doesnt want to spend all time spending effort to in the end - have nothing.
17:35:38 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Or a developer can be "persuaded" that it's desirable.
17:35:45 <planetmaker> is actually the newgrf selection gui patch desirable?
17:35:58 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: my banking account agree'd with you last time indeed
17:37:29 <Zuu> planetmaker: So if I understand you, you was mostly after the two steps that I have in my patch as separate steps to just put in your hg queues easier.
17:37:50 <planetmaker> Zuu: not really.
17:38:35 <planetmaker> Re-reading the whole long posts, I think, I got it: it's two completely seperate things. Could be done sperately. I think I'll add them then seperately, too. Easier :)
17:39:09 <planetmaker> The existance of the combined patch was the source of my confusion :) Now I only want the patch files as they're in your hg repo ;)
17:39:13 <energetic> "lotsa ppl want it" reduces the chance considerably -->?
17:39:20 <planetmaker> or rather in your .hg/patches
17:39:34 <TrueBrain> energetic: this is not a game for the public!
17:40:07 <planetmaker> energetic: devs do what they like. It's their fun. It's their free time. Why should they do something which they don't like?
17:40:12 <planetmaker> They're not paid after all.
17:40:14 <Zuu> planetmaker: I can PM you them if you like, but the widget focus one on FS should be quite similar (made with svn diff > file.patch though)
17:40:18 <planetmaker> at least for this :)
17:41:01 <planetmaker> Zuu: don't worry. I just do the usual thing. Just wondered whether you keep posting patches which require -p1 instead of -p0 :)
17:41:20 <planetmaker> no biggy, though.
17:41:44 <glx> not a problem if you use a proper patch tool (ie not tortoise)
17:42:00 <energetic> So if people do lots of effort creating cool or neat patches they might not end up in main trunk simply... because some devver doesnt like it?
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17:42:20 <Zuu> hmm, I made them using svn diff > file from the base director (not src). Isn't that the favorable way to make them?
17:42:25 <glx> yes we have the POWER
17:42:35 <TrueBrain> energetic: how would you like to see it?
17:42:39 <planetmaker> glx: it's no problem :) patch -p1 or -p0 isn't difficult.
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17:43:58 <energetic> well first of all u guys need to understand that I really _do_ like your (all contributing ppl) efforts of openttd. This may sound a bit sharp, but I do mean that. I have already have quite some fun ewith ottd!
17:44:26 <Rubidium> energetic: almost *all* patches that "lotsa of ppl like" are badly coded, badly tested (if tested at all) even when they say they have tested it for months
17:45:13 <energetic> second I think i know how oss projects work - ppl see coding as a fun thing to do. therefore they just do not want to guarantee anthing, since it creates responsiblility, and that in turn reduces the fun
17:45:16 <Rubidium> energetic: take a look at e.g. distant join; the amount of issues that patch had when I started to look at (when it was tested already for 9! months) was high
17:45:45 <Rubidium> energetic: and some of the bugs were so trivial in nature that almost everybody should've noticed it
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17:46:30 <energetic> So please, let me ask this otherwise: what do I have to do to get something in main trunk? Give u guys all a blowjob?
17:46:35 <energetic> no, i am kidding
17:46:50 <TrueBrain> energetic: make a patch any of the devs like and feels like finalizing :)
17:46:58 <planetmaker> :)
17:47:02 <Zuu> energetic: You need to make good work your self, and don't demand things from the devs.
17:47:15 <energetic> did I ever demand things from the devs already?
17:47:16 <planetmaker> otherwise: make patches YOU like and play with them. Make them available to the public
17:47:21 <Zuu> Then you one day will have a email saying your FS has been closed because it was commited.
17:47:23 <planetmaker> and don't demand that others like it.
17:47:34 <planetmaker> it's a good feeling actually :)
17:47:45 <planetmaker> ^^what zuu said :)
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17:48:21 <energetic> did I ever demand things from the devs already? --> I might have did this without realizing! So please, if this is the case, I want to know wabout it and remove that impression - which surely I can tell is false -
17:48:53 <TrueBrain> poor energetic :)
17:49:01 <TrueBrain> anyway, nobody can garantee you anything before there is a patch :)
17:49:29 <Rubidium> we don't even guarantee something committed to trunk wil stay there
17:49:52 <Zuu> I would say nobody can guarantee it will be committed before it is committed. And even committed stuff can get removed. (like Rubidium wrote)
17:49:54 <TrueBrain> :)
17:50:09 <energetic> I understand. We have a patch, we have tested it. It's not ready to go in trunk. But someday it will be, i am sure.
17:50:31 <TrueBrain> so no guarantees what so ever at any level :) haha :)
17:50:44 <Zuu> energetic: What patch are you thinking about?
17:50:52 <energetic> I dont want any guarantees. Just want to know what I have to do to have a patch that has the highest available chances to get into trunk.
17:51:03 <TrueBrain> make sure to give it up for review :) You will be suprised what is wrong with it ;) haha :)
17:51:10 <TrueBrain> and energetic, one big tip: make VERY small patches
17:51:22 <TrueBrain> energetic: one thing per patch ... not like some people introduce N things at once ...
17:51:38 <energetic> right
17:51:49 <planetmaker> and have patience.
17:51:56 <planetmaker> Patches need time to mature.
17:51:57 <Zuu> energetic: A tips I got was to write a patch document that explains the purpose of the patch plus most important things to know of implementation.
17:52:00 <TrueBrain> use a hg queue if needed, if one patch depends on an other
17:52:03 <TrueBrain> but never ever combine them :)
17:52:13 <planetmaker> Like 10-line patches may take 6 month before they are :)
17:52:36 <frosch123> energetic: the best strategy is always to provide patches that simplify/cleanup/generalise something, which are advancious to everyone but do not change any behaviour, and which makes keeping your local version in sync easier
17:52:52 <Rubidium> and don't demand that something happens, because that'll send it straight to the bottom of the todo list (below all insane feature requests)
17:52:56 <planetmaker> :)
17:53:09 <planetmaker> small is beautiful. But then: size matters :P
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17:53:24 <energetic> so, to conclude..: a patch - tested in production with a lot of ppl, only focused on _one_ subject/bug/whatever, as small as possible, have good documentation, follows coding guidelines, have backward compatibility,
17:53:41 <planetmaker> best chances, yes.
17:54:00 <TrueBrain> and make sure to give it up for review from time to time :)
17:54:04 <frosch123> and no conflicst with more general future plans of someone else :p
17:54:11 <energetic> preferably coming with a free blowjob and a bank account positive thing.
17:54:11 <planetmaker> :P
17:54:23 <TrueBrain> I rather have a girl giving me a blowjob
17:54:25 <TrueBrain> but that is just me
17:54:27 <TrueBrain> frosch123: lol :)
17:54:29 <energetic> lol
17:54:38 <planetmaker> sure. But blowjobs are desirable by women only
17:54:52 <Zuu> frosch123: Esp plans of any of the devs.
17:55:59 <energetic> I fail horribly at c++, but i *think* i know software devving. so all other prereqs shouldnt be too hard
17:56:27 <energetic> thanks for the tips all! Appreciated.
17:56:46 <TrueBrain> good luck :)
17:57:36 <energetic> oh, what is a hg queue
17:57:50 <TrueBrain> hg (mercurial) is an other VCS
17:57:55 <TrueBrain> which allows 'queuing' patches
17:57:59 <TrueBrain> so make one depending on an other
17:58:15 <energetic> right
17:58:18 <planetmaker> very useful indeed.
17:58:32 <TrueBrain> svn for example doesn't allow this :)
17:58:44 <TrueBrain> and else you get N working copies :)
17:58:45 <TrueBrain> haha
17:58:55 <energetic> Zuu: i am talking about this one:
17:59:02 <energetic> blugh
17:59:04 <planetmaker> also very useful for patch packs :)
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17:59:42 <TrueBrain> energetic: be very careful with such patches; you are touching game rebalancing, which is a very tricky road to walk :)
18:00:06 *** planetmaker_ has quit IRC
18:00:29 <energetic> That's one reason why I think there should be a backwoards compatibility option.
18:00:42 <Zuu> Easiest patches to get commited are those who clean up code or generalize, but isn't visible for players at all.
18:00:44 <TrueBrain> that always goes a long way :)
18:01:22 <Rubidium> but they are the most important of all as they keep OpenTTD maintainable
18:01:26 <energetic> Though i wonder how many players/ppl will be affected of it - only like, the top ten ppl of kurts competition server know all the tricks to compete - in other words, they know the current mechanics of competition.
18:02:28 <energetic> And I really doubt much other players/servers know these rules - for instance, the rondje om the kerk or the yearly AI competition will be affected
18:02:32 <Zuu> I think the longest patch I got committed that actually change the external behavior was a one-liner if I have not forgotten any.
18:03:22 *** Lakie has joined #openttd
18:03:39 <planetmaker> he... I think I only got interface patches..
18:03:54 <energetic> So what other caveats/ tips do you have in relation to game rebalacing? any more do's and/or don'ts?
18:04:21 <TrueBrain> make it fair
18:04:41 <planetmaker> and simple / easy to understand
18:04:44 <energetic> :) that's the whole point of the patch I am trying to get into trunk :)
18:10:32 *** worldemar has joined #openttd
18:10:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: how long do you keep unreproducable bugs open?
18:12:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain: out of memory
18:12:50 <TrueBrain> frosch123: no
18:12:56 <frosch123> yeah, works again
18:13:12 <TrueBrain> we force-restart all services every 6 hours
18:14:10 <glx> to prevent OOM ;)
18:18:28 *** FR^2 has joined #openttd
18:24:11 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: depends on the information we have and whether the person reporting the bug reacts
18:24:43 <Rubidium> and whether the person with the bug can reproduce it him/herself
18:24:54 <TrueBrain> I was refering to one from november .. :)
18:25:41 <Rubidium> there're more than on from november
18:26:22 <TrueBrain> 1 unreproducable with no replies :)
18:28:50 <TrueBrain>
18:28:51 <TrueBrain> FYI
18:28:59 <Rubidium> that has a reply
18:29:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Rubidium
18:29:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Belugas
18:29:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v petern
18:29:49 <TrueBrain> oeh, I want +v too!!!
18:30:05 <Rubidium> ask Bjarni
18:30:21 <TrueBrain> for +v?
18:30:26 <TrueBrain> @voice
18:30:26 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +v TrueBrain
18:30:28 <Rubidium> for autovoice
18:30:29 <TrueBrain> I don't need him :)
18:30:44 <TrueBrain> :p
18:30:46 <TrueBrain> don't want that :)
18:30:49 <Rubidium> got no idea what to do about/with FS#2411
18:31:10 <Rubidium> I've got no way to reproduce it and it's the only "sighting"
18:31:21 <TrueBrain> so close it :) Haha :)
18:31:25 <TrueBrain> my reason for asking was that :)
18:33:17 <TrueBrain> whoho, 26.6 kiB/s from ...
18:33:26 <TrueBrain> 6.7 kiB/s ...
18:33:37 <planetmaker> :P
18:33:50 <TrueBrain> someone should keep their hands of the ratelimiter ..
18:33:56 <TrueBrain> it is not only annoying, only costs much more in the end
18:33:57 <planetmaker> which one, TrueBrain ?
18:34:21 <TrueBrain> which one what planetmaker?
18:34:29 <energetic> OwenS: are they building the transrapid already, or is it still in planning phase?
18:34:50 <planetmaker> the server which is so slow.
18:35:03 <planetmaker> there's more than one openttdcoop server :)
18:35:07 <TrueBrain>
18:35:09 <TrueBrain> www
18:35:13 <TrueBrain> grf pack
18:35:19 <planetmaker> ah. hm...
18:35:32 <TrueBrain> bursts for a few seconds
18:35:35 <TrueBrain> then rate limiter kicks in
18:35:36 <TrueBrain> very stupid
18:35:49 <TrueBrain> even more as I just make it a bundles requests, and I get it at full speed
18:35:50 <TrueBrain> go figure ..
18:35:54 <planetmaker> found that last week, too.
18:36:02 <TrueBrain> piss off, stupid 'traffic' shapers .. useless in all possible ways
18:36:29 <TrueBrain> don't put a 100 mbit/sec server on the web if you are limiting it anyway ...
18:36:37 <planetmaker> back then I thought it was on my end. But if that's general, it's stupid, indeed.
18:36:47 <TrueBrain> you could as well attach it to a ADSL connection
18:36:55 <TrueBrain> as stable and useful as this
18:37:13 <TrueBrain> (sorry, I REALLY hate traffic shapers of this kind ... useless useless and useless ... uses it too ... blegh!)
18:37:33 <planetmaker> I figured, you really hate them :P
18:37:39 <Aali> frosch123: hate to say this, but r14994 has another problem :P
18:38:46 <TrueBrain> bleh, I thought openttdcoop was open for spectate, without password? :(
18:39:20 <planetmaker> difficult. But anyone can obtain the password for free.
18:39:52 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: it requires me to join a channel ....
18:39:57 <planetmaker> a server pw applies to spectators, too...
18:40:01 <TrueBrain> and it just differs between password on server or on company :p
18:40:10 <frosch123> haha, what's this time?
18:40:23 <planetmaker> grisly
18:40:26 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: and my point exactly was, that I assumed it was on the company, but it is on the server :)
18:41:16 <planetmaker> right. There's not a good patch to make joining with automatically setting company pw afaik.
18:41:41 <planetmaker> like command line arguments for that
18:41:59 <TrueBrain> I see :)
18:42:01 <TrueBrain> fair enough
18:42:06 <Aali> frosch123: trains get lost when exiting a depot
18:42:08 <TrueBrain> we always have webchats :p
18:42:18 <Aali> sometimes
18:42:30 <planetmaker> I posted you the PW anyway :) But now it will be invalid, I guess...
18:42:51 <TrueBrain> it already was a few seconds after you posted it :)
18:42:53 <TrueBrain> but tnx anyway ;)
18:43:06 <planetmaker> np :)
18:43:44 <Aali> some trains do it the first time they exit a depot, but they all seem to get lost if i send them to depot while they're loading
18:43:46 <frosch123> Aali: provide a savegame
18:44:49 <Aali> will do
18:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14996 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-11 18:44:49
18:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 22 fixed by burgerd (22)
18:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 18 fixed by khaloofah (18)
18:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 16 fixed by arnaullv (16)
18:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 12 fixed by Hadez (12)
18:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 13 fixed by Excel20 (13)
18:49:11 *** Tijuas has joined #openttd
18:50:54 <Tijuas> Tired of niigggers and their general monkeyshines? Then join the multiracial alliance against the golliwogs, darkies, jigaboos, etc! Chimpout welcomes Asians, Whites, Indians, Native Americans, Jews, non-negroid Hispanics, and anybody else that isn't negroid. The Alliance of Humans vs Niiiggggers
18:51:20 <TrueBrain> @kban Tijuas bye
18:51:20 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~Tijuas@
18:51:21 *** Tijuas was kicked by DorpsGek (bye)
18:52:07 <energetic> wtf
18:52:21 <TrueBrain> spam is not only via email :)
18:52:49 * Sacro laughs heartily
18:53:00 <energetic> never seen this kinda spam
18:53:18 <TrueBrain> once or twice a month
18:53:36 <energetic> racist spam
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19:03:12 <OwenS> The Whois info is apparently Whoisguard protected... Not surprising :p
19:04:38 <TrueBrain> hehe
19:04:44 <TrueBrain> don't pay any attention to such people
19:04:45 <TrueBrain> bad for you :)
19:07:08 <Aali> frosch123:
19:07:14 <Aali> no grfs needed
19:07:44 *** vraa_ has joined #openttd
19:09:15 <Aali> oh and even though I used PBS there, it will still happen with block signals
19:09:52 <energetic> hey owen
19:11:40 *** Wolle has joined #openttd
19:11:52 <OwenS> Just noticed I sit in here also? :P
19:12:00 <OwenS> Oh wait... brainfart :p
19:12:15 <TrueBrain> he isn't the quickest of the group ;)
19:13:03 <energetic> OwenS: are they building the transrapid already, or is it still in planning phase?
19:14:05 *** vraa has quit IRC
19:14:10 <frosch123> Aali: train2 does not even have orders :/
19:14:23 <Aali> indeed
19:14:30 <frosch123> and train1 is of course lost
19:14:39 <OwenS> energetic: It's a proposal thats trying to convince the gov it's a better idea than a bog standard high speed rail line
19:14:41 <OwenS> Anyway,
19:14:43 <frosch123> that is a known fs task
19:14:48 <OwenS> afk for a bit
19:15:24 <Aali> frosch123: oh, right, it doesn't look past the eol reversing?
19:15:43 <frosch123> yes, but how do you get a train without orders "lost"
19:16:02 <Aali> yeah, that one is a bit odd :P
19:16:12 <frosch123> well, I did not reproduce that part yet
19:16:52 <Aali> and you only have to start it (green flag in the depot) it doesn't even have to leave the depot at all
19:17:38 <frosch123> I only get a profit warning
19:18:43 <Aali> hmm, ya, I can't reproduce it either :/
19:18:48 <Aali> try building a new train
19:19:20 <frosch123> ah yes :)
19:25:54 <frosch123> but isn't that a feature?
19:28:08 <Aali> may be, lets see if it was like that before 14994
19:28:22 <frosch123> it is like that in 14952 :)
19:29:01 <Aali> yep
19:29:10 <frosch123> and the train throws that error reguarly, not only on start
19:31:42 <Aali> alright, you're off the hook then, FS#2516 has been resolved without any bad side-effects :P
19:32:18 <frosch123> haha, there might still show up issues in some months
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19:33:38 <snappy> Does it make sense to bulldoze farmland and build on top, or does it cost the same as just building on top?
19:33:58 <frosch123> try it, but directly building might be cheaper
19:34:30 <frosch123> you can also try to buy the land
19:36:31 <Aali> you always end up paying the "clear farmland" price though, right?
19:39:14 *** Singaporekid has quit IRC
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19:50:27 <Sacro>
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20:02:29 <glx> nobody wants it?
20:02:48 *** UFO64 has quit IRC
20:04:14 <Aali> they want as many as possible to move away from Vista :)
20:04:35 *** lewymati has quit IRC
20:07:00 <Zuu> I read after 1:st july (or june?) resellers may offer a free upgrade to windows 7 for customers that buy a PC with Vista on it.
20:07:06 <Terkhen> it can't get worse than Vista, right? :/
20:07:12 <Sacro> heh
20:07:20 <Sacro> I offer a free upgrade to Ubuntu for Vista users
20:07:42 <Zuu> Terkhen: As vista had some areas improved over XP it surely can get worse.
20:10:18 <OwenS> Terkhen, It could be ME....
20:10:58 <Terkhen> yeah... i suffered ME and now i'm suffering Vista :(
20:11:16 *** sigmund_ has joined #openttd
20:12:56 <glx> ME is just a mix of worse part of 9x and worse part of NT
20:13:00 *** sigmund has quit IRC
20:19:24 <Aali> nice
20:19:43 <Aali> company manager faces aren't synced properly in MP
20:21:27 <glx> it's just a number
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20:52:22 <goodger> glx: that's not true. ME is 9x with bugs, there's no trace of NT
20:52:42 <goodger> NT didn't become a desktop release until XP was released
20:54:57 <el_en> 2000 was quite widely used on desktop.
20:55:10 <el_en> Widelyerly than NT 4 anyway.
20:55:27 *** petern changes topic to "0.6.3 | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | Word of the day: Widelyerly"
20:55:52 <el_en> Just for the record, I know it's not a real word.
20:56:28 <petern> of course
20:56:32 <petern> those are the best ones :D
21:21:53 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody would question the existence of a word in german...
21:22:42 <goodger> heh
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21:51:40 <Zuu> Does anyone remember this English student that built the website with lot of small squares that he sold for adverts? I have forgoten what the website was called. :/
21:51:55 <goodger> million dollar webpage
21:52:26 <goodger> one million pixels, one dollar per pixel to hire it for a fortnight or something
21:52:30 <goodger> made him super-rich
21:52:34 <goodger> bastard
21:55:02 <Prof_Frink> goodger: It was longer than a fortnight, several years iirc
21:55:23 <goodger> the period to hire the pixel?
21:55:24 <goodger> hm
21:55:49 <goodger> I'd have made it monthly... no point in earning $1m when you can earn $1m a month
21:56:09 <Prof_Frink> Except you'd earn $1m.
21:56:45 <Prof_Frink>
21:57:33 <goodger> ah, so it didn't expire at all
21:57:35 <goodger> *tut*
21:58:51 <goodger> I don't know how I'd spend a million dollars
21:59:28 <goodger> but if I had the choice of earning a million dollars, or a million dollars per set period for the foreseeable future, I'd choose the latter
21:59:49 <Prof_Frink> Unless the set period was "Every 1000 years"
22:01:00 <goodger> yeah, but I'd have the set period as a year, or six months, or perhaps even a week if I could get away with charging a minimum of $100 for a week's advertising with a 10x10 pixel image
22:02:32 *** energetic has left #openttd
22:02:41 <Zuu> well, you could try to start an airliner, and you will soon find yourself with less money left than you started with. :)
22:03:10 *** mikl has quit IRC
22:04:38 *** Jezral has joined #openttd
22:04:39 <Zuu> there is a quite often spoken joke in the air industry that to become a millionaire you have to put in 10 million into an airliner company.
22:06:55 <mrfrenzy> that is not quite how it works in openttd with airliners ;)
22:09:19 *** energetic has joined #openttd
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22:23:10 <petern> erm
22:23:18 <petern> how do you add new files using msvc 2005?
22:23:57 <glx> openttd related?
22:24:42 <glx> or more general ?
22:25:23 <frosch123> former is for free, latter will cost
22:25:32 <glx> :)
22:27:24 <petern> openttd, yes
22:28:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14997 /trunk/src/ (gfx_type.h spritecache.cpp): -Fix [FS#2524](r14223): when handling invalid sprites, entry in spritecache data could lose its parent
22:30:57 <glx> you add the files in source.list then run projects\generate.vbs
22:31:21 <petern> thought so
22:31:25 <petern> tedious :p
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22:32:24 <glx> it's possible to add them in VS but it tends to do extra changes ;)
22:32:35 *** Roujin has joined #openttd
22:32:44 <petern> it puts them in projects/ as well, which is stupid
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22:33:16 <Roujin> hi everyone
22:34:05 <Roujin> who feels responsible for the grfcrawler? ;)
22:34:10 *** ecke has joined #openttd
22:34:33 <glx> no me
22:34:39 <Roujin> I added my hover bus newgrf to the grfcrawler, but it displays errors on uploading images :(
22:35:23 <Roujin> (also, I created a duplicate entry because I thought it didn't work at all when I saw the errors and pressed "send" again :( )
22:36:59 <Rubidium> Roujin: eis_os (#tycoon)
22:39:14 <Roujin> thanks :)
22:42:03 <Roujin> could it be that he doesn't show up often lately? last forum post from in his a month ago, at least..
22:42:51 <Roujin> *from him is
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22:48:59 <TrueBrain> LA LA LA!
22:49:59 <TrueBrain> I can sing very pretty!!!!!!!!111oneone
22:50:18 <glx> someone seems drunk
22:50:51 <TrueBrain> nah!
22:50:55 <TrueBrain> then I wouldn't be typing the right letters :)
22:50:56 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: please sing for us, but do it vocally without speech-to-text
22:51:05 <TrueBrain> but you both can be correct glx :)
22:51:37 <TrueBrain> you want me to record it and force it through your soundcard?
22:51:38 <TrueBrain> :)
22:52:20 <energetic> yesyesyes!!!!!111twotwotwo
22:52:41 <TrueBrain> energetic: two? You are silly ...
22:52:53 <energetic> thats called sarcasm
22:53:11 <TrueBrain> I hate sarcasm :(
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23:00:38 *** xahodo has joined #openttd
23:01:54 <xahodo> Hello
23:01:59 <TrueBrain> hi xahodo
23:02:38 <xahodo> I've hit a problem with pbs
23:03:06 <xahodo> Something with the reservations seems to be wrong.
23:03:23 <Wolf01> 'night
23:03:29 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
23:04:23 <xahodo> With several stations when vehicles are stopped in front of a pbs signal (both normal and single-direction).
23:04:49 <TrueBrain> try reversing the train :p Fixed many problems for me :(
23:05:01 <xahodo> The construction in question has a pbs signal as an entry and a normal signal as an exit.
23:05:19 *** FauxFaux_ has joined #openttd
23:05:29 <xahodo> However, if you demolish the tiles with the pbs signals on them and rebuild the signals, it /seems/ to solve the problem.
23:05:37 <TrueBrain> Night all
23:06:54 <frosch123> xahodo: try with a screenshot
23:07:19 *** FauxFaux has quit IRC
23:07:29 <xahodo> I'm looking for the problem now.
23:09:06 <xahodo> I've got both a screenshot and a save!
23:09:13 <xahodo> yippy!
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23:18:48 <Zuu> xahodo: You should not have an PBS signal infront of your station platforms
23:19:02 <Zuu> Only one signal before the junction where trains select platform
23:19:11 <Zuu> (given that you only have one entry-track)
23:19:33 <glx> PBS signal must be safe waiting position
23:19:52 <glx> but show us the screenshot
23:20:02 <Zuu> With your construction you tell the trains that they can wait in the junction infront of the station.
23:20:11 *** bleepy has quit IRC
23:20:42 <Zuu> But indeed a screenshot may clear up some missunderstandings of either us or you.
23:21:35 <Eddi|zuHause> rule of thumb: whenever you previously put an exit signal, you put no signal
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23:27:49 <xahodo> Well, the screenshot in the bugreport should explain a lot.
23:27:57 <xahodo> I'm also attaching a save.
23:30:02 <xahodo> this is the bugreport:
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23:33:49 <frosch123> yarrs.grf <- what's that
23:34:11 <xahodo> uh-oh... quite a bunch of newgrf's in there :(
23:34:13 <xahodo> sorry.
23:34:29 <frosch123> is it in ottdcoop 7.3, that one I have not yet
23:34:38 <xahodo> rail and road replacement set
23:34:54 <xahodo> There's a forum thread somewhere...
23:35:08 <frosch123> only graphics, then it is not important :)
23:36:52 <xahodo> It might be in ottdcoop 7.3... but of several grf's I use different versions :S
23:37:56 <frosch123> i need your version of the 2cc set
23:38:06 *** OwenS has quit IRC
23:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14993 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14957, r14975): Do not reverse the train with OT_LEAVESTATION as that breaks PBS prediction. <- i still have no idea what this means
23:38:33 <xahodo> I'll upload it.
23:39:05 <xahodo> do you need the metro tracks too?
23:39:05 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: It means "Do not do bad thing."
23:39:13 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: terminal stations were broken
23:39:50 <frosch123> yarrs.grf is also missing
23:40:08 <xahodo> ok
23:40:18 <frosch123> as well as ECSTown, ECSBasic and ECSMach
23:40:31 <frosch123> though I have different versions of all of them :p
23:40:44 <glx> everybody uses a different ECS version ;)
23:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the problem of releasing beta versions
23:41:24 <frosch123> however, the vehicle sets are the important ones, as those prevent loading
23:41:33 <glx> and using same name for them
23:41:43 <frosch123> and using same grfid
23:42:41 <glx> luckily md5sum is usually different ;)
23:43:15 <frosch123> well, if the grfid would be different the grf would be disabled, instead of loading an old one, which is that different, that ottd crashes :/
23:43:44 <glx> indeed
23:44:08 <glx> I wonder how ttdpatch handles that
23:44:13 <frosch123> someone wrote a 11 lines long text about that :)
23:45:28 <xahodo> more missing?
23:45:36 <frosch123> no
23:47:41 <xahodo> Can I upload it anywhere?
23:48:01 <frosch123> where you uploaded the savegame?
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23:48:29 <xahodo> oh......
23:50:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14998 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Codechange: warn once about misuse of each sprite, not once about misuse of any sprite
23:51:09 <xahodo> Added the missing grfs to the bug.
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23:54:44 <xahodo> Gotta leave, bye
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23:55:22 <frosch123> so, Aali, why did you not found that one :p
23:57:03 <Aali> the what?
23:57:20 <Aali> which one?
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