IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-12-24
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00:00:13 <OwenS> Other problem with ships is we have 203 of them on short haul routes... and theyre already cosnuming 80% of my CPU
00:00:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you can place an insane amount of stations near an industry, with station walking
00:00:17 <OwenS> (Well, one of my cores)
00:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is, you can only use two pickup stations
00:00:51 * Rubidium doesn't have any CPU problems with 500 ships
00:01:10 <OwenS> Well, 71% CPU at 203 ships, 1000 trains, YAPF
00:03:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14733 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp network/network_server.cpp): -Fix (r14730): creating new companies didn't always work as expected.
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00:19:43 <fjb> AdmiralAI starts to annoy me. It has the habit to excessively build unconnectable stations.
00:21:58 <fjb> There are lots of stations around every industry now. Hard to connect anything at all.
00:22:27 <Eddi|zuHause> wuhai... new buffy
00:23:43 <dihedral> strings like Game Paused (incoming client) could be moved to lang files, no?
00:25:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14734 /trunk/src/ (ai/default/default.cpp company_base.h economy.cpp): -Codechange: type of bankrupt_asked is CompanyMask, not byte
00:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause> # Ich bin der Rock'n'Roll Überkater
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00:37:37 <svippery> I suppose the towns only get really big if you start early.
00:38:18 <Eddi|zuHause> cities get big very fast when you have many stations
00:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> a bus or tram system usually helps there
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08:19:49 <planetmaker> he... morning petern :)
08:21:54 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
08:23:03 <petern> (because 'left' and 'right' are too tricky for seamen)
08:23:13 <petern> ((hurr hurr hurr, seamen))
08:27:46 <planetmaker> hm... ok, no logs then...
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08:42:30 <DorpsGek> petern: I have 6 registered users with 6 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
09:27:50 <dihedral> when a new company is created, NetworkUpdateClientInfo() is issued (and received by the clients, before the company exists on the clients
09:28:07 <dihedral> at lesst IsValidCompanyID returnes false
09:29:19 <dihedral> and it's not COMPANY_NEW_COMPANY
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09:31:59 <Rubidium> dihedral: you're not making sense
09:34:09 <dihedral> ok, i'll rephrase :-)
09:34:17 <dihedral> when i am in the game as a spectator
09:34:32 <dihedral> and create a new company with the company ctrl command
09:35:10 <dihedral> the server sends a PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_INFO to all clients, holding the new company id as playas
09:35:42 <dihedral> this id, when checked with IsValidCompanyID (inside the receive code in network_clients.cpp) returns false
09:36:03 <dihedral> which tells me, that the company does not yet exist on the client side, when the CLIENT_INFO packet is received
09:36:52 <dihedral> the new playas id, however is a correct company id (i.e. < MAX_COMPANIES)
09:37:32 <dihedral> but i assume it would not be possible to send the PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_INFO packet after every client has processed the do commands
09:37:55 <dihedral> as that could be a difference of a few ticks depending on the client, correct?
09:38:29 <Rubidium> am I not see it r what? DEF_CLIENT_RECEIVE_COMMAND(PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_INFO) does not have an IsValidCompanyID in my source code
09:38:43 <dihedral> right now i check for !IsValidCompanyID(playas) && playas < MAX_COMPANIES && ci->client_playas == COMPANY_SPECTATOR
09:38:49 <dihedral> to announce the client started a new company
09:39:32 <dihedral> do something, in the else block: } else if (playas != ci->client_playas) {
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09:39:43 <dihedral> put a IsValidCompanyID(playas);
09:39:47 <dihedral> or actually anywhere
09:39:51 <dihedral> or output the company id too
09:40:14 <dihedral> playas holds the next (open) company id, yet failes on that check,
09:41:27 <Rubidium> dihedral: you're really seeing ghosts there
09:42:08 <Rubidium> playas != ci->client_playas doesn't check whether either of the playas-(s?)es is valid
09:42:27 <Rubidium> it just checks whether the client changed company
09:42:28 <dihedral> IsValidCompanyID(playas) returns false!
09:42:51 <dihedral> DEBUG(net, 0, "[blah] playas: %d", playas) returns an id < MAX_COMPANIES
09:42:54 <Rubidium> but then ISN'T an IsValidCompanyID anywhere in that function
09:43:17 <dihedral> in my code there is (pokes his patch)
09:43:35 <Rubidium> then you're calling the update command too early
09:44:00 <dihedral> no - i was just announcing if and where a client moved to
09:44:43 <dihedral> i.e. moved to spectators or valid company
09:44:58 <dihedral> and i was getting a bunch of 'moved to spectators' when i started a new company :-P
09:45:05 <Rubidium> if you already moved it, it would be valid (except for spectators)
09:45:26 <Rubidium> dihedral: are you running latest trunk?
09:50:50 <dihedral> i can send you a patch in a bit if you want to
09:53:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14735 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs):
09:53:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: remove a bit of bit-waste in the map array (without changing the map array) and make the CompanyIDs contiguous.
09:53:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Note: 15 should be enough for now... making it any more means adding more bytes to the map array and thus wasting more bits instead of reducing the bit waste.
09:54:00 <petern> i read that as contageous first :o
09:56:24 <Rubidium> petern: am I using too difficult words for your early morning reading capabilities?
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10:23:10 <petern> hmm, 16 players in each company and still 14/15 spectators? :p
10:26:40 <petern> of course, people will complain that 254 clients and 15 companies on a 2048x2048 is really slow, and that it used to run fine on a 386...
10:27:34 <dihedral> it's their own silly fault if they configure a game to have more load on their server then the server can handle
10:27:57 <dihedral> the games capability does not mean an admin has to configure it to max capability :-P
10:28:21 <dihedral> i can configure counter strike source to run real slow on my computer :-P
10:39:40 * roboboy ponders playing some scooter on zernebok radio along with some other stuff
10:40:22 <roboboy> if anyone wants to listen I shall play the said music
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10:41:13 <petern> why would anyone willingly listen to scooter?
10:42:02 <roboboy> because (I Like It Loud)
10:44:05 <roboboy> gah wrong channel for those staements
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10:49:21 <Darkvater> dammit, I hate it when support is right
10:49:40 <Darkvater> called them that their stupid program is not working, was instructed to reboot the pc
11:00:25 <planetmaker> [11:41] <petern> why would anyone willingly listen to scooter? <-- years ago... not sure today :P
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11:38:54 <petern> hmm, i should remove pgs, as nobody can ever find that...
11:40:28 <petern> i think they were gpl though
11:40:33 <petern> but never put on grfcrawler
11:41:48 <petern> 'min_clients' is an unknown patch setting.
11:42:27 <dihedral> min_companies could also be fun :-D
11:42:30 <petern> renamed for no good reason :(
11:42:43 <petern> a viewing spectator is an active client
11:42:54 <petern> an idle player is an unactive client!
11:43:03 <petern> min_players made perfect sense
11:43:04 <dihedral> uh - you just reminded me
11:43:08 <dihedral> i need to add that check
11:43:21 <dihedral> no - not at that time
11:43:32 <dihedral> because you had players = companies and clients = players back then
11:43:47 <dihedral> so min_players could have led people to assume it was related to companies
11:44:09 <petern> min_players was the bit that was right
11:44:16 <petern> how do i set this variable?
11:44:59 <petern> patch network.min_active_clients
11:45:22 <petern> way more complicated :o
11:46:12 <petern> well, i guess that was nice
11:46:29 <petern> my old config which defaulted to min_players 1... was now not paused
11:46:46 <petern> still, it's the only server with 15 company slots :D
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11:57:51 <dihedral> petern, if you manually unpause a game that was paused due to not having enough players, the feature does not work anylonger anyway
11:58:19 <dihedral> i.e. min_players = 2, one client online, rcon unpause, client leaves, game does not pause
11:58:57 <yorick> what happens if another client joins, so 2 clients online, and one leaves
11:59:41 <yorick> because there's less than min_players
11:59:49 <petern> you manually unpaused it, you can manually pause it
12:00:00 <yorick> but will it automatically unpause then?
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12:17:12 <dihedral> petern: if you manually pause the game, and then the 2nd client joins, it will not unpause that game
12:18:09 <dihedral> also, if the option is set to start a game in paused mode, and you have min_players set, the game will not unpause as soon as enough players are in the game
12:18:26 <dihedral> so the pause and min_player pause is kinda wiggled
12:18:39 <Rubidium> they're two different things
12:18:49 <Rubidium> both must be off to be unpaused
12:19:11 <Rubidium> though I think manual unpause can force-unpause the min_player pause
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12:46:00 <edeca> I'm just playing with double tracks for the first time, are there any good solutions using PBS for overtaking or should I just use pre-signals like the wiki example?
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12:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> problem with pbs-overtaking is that it cannot distinguish between slow and fast trains
12:51:16 <Eddi|zuHause> so you inevitably end up with slow trains reserving an overtaking spot and blocking fast trains
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12:59:24 <edeca> Argh, why isn't there copy&paste in trunk :)
13:00:08 <Rubidium> because nobody has written it properly
13:00:51 <edeca> The current implementation is bad? :(
13:11:07 <edeca> Hrm, must I use 2 way pre-signals for overtaking blocks/
13:12:57 <Rubidium> edeca: yes; massive amounts of code duplication and even PBS isn't supported yet (AFAIK)
13:13:18 <edeca> Rubidium: Damn, that's not so good :)
13:13:42 <edeca> There should be a bounty system like horde has so that openttd lovers can sponsor features they want the most
13:18:13 <Rubidium> not to mention that the patch has still 16 todos
13:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you can "sponsor" features easily
13:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> just implement them
13:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> or pay someone to implement them full time. prepare some 10.000€ though ;)
13:22:20 <Rubidium> + if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_X))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_X, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
13:22:24 <Rubidium> + if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_Y))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_Y, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
13:22:27 <Rubidium> + if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_UPPER))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_UPPER, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
13:22:30 <Rubidium> + if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_LOWER))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_LOWER, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
13:22:33 <Rubidium> + if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_LEFT))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_LEFT, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
13:22:36 <Rubidium> + if ((m_rail[index] & (1U << TRACK_RIGHT))>0) CP_PlaceRail(tile, TRACK_RIGHT, m_convert_rail ? (uint) _cur_railtype : ((m_rail[index] >> 6) & 3U) );
13:22:41 <Rubidium> ^ that's copy-paste (and it happens a lot) in copy-paste
13:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well, ever heard of a paste bin? :p
13:23:20 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause: Heh, I wish I had the spare time to play & code it! But I think my programming skills would need lots of work
13:23:41 <blathijs> edeca: No better way to improve coding skills than to start coding :-)
13:23:50 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes... but posting links doesn't get much attention in here
13:23:52 <edeca> blathijs: Yes, this is true
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13:26:14 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: and copy pasting a copy paste from the copy paste patch is soo much nicer than copy pasting a link with a copy paste of a copy paste from the copy paste patch
13:27:29 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, shouldn't that be solved with something like a "for each trackbit in tile:"
13:28:34 <Rubidium> now imagine the same to happen with say signals
13:28:35 <edeca> I'm assuming TRACK_FOO are constants that one could easily use in a for loop, rather than if..if..if..if..if.
13:29:04 <edeca> Anyhow, that's horribly inefficient if it doesn't use 'else if' :(
13:29:11 <Rubidium> but only instead of copying 1 line 6 times copy 11 lines 6 times with *only* TRACK_X as difference between them
13:29:34 <edeca> If it's pasting TRACK_X, it then goes on to check at least 5 other things
13:30:11 <Rubidium> edeca: ever noticed that there can be more than 1 track piece on a rail tile?
13:30:27 <edeca> Rubidium: I hadn't considered that ;)
13:30:35 <edeca> Rubidium: I mean, damn, you can do that?! :)
13:31:57 <OwenS> One thing I notice is theyre reimplementing GB there as well...
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13:33:12 <OwenS> And that code would wordwrap when in many people's editors :p
13:33:44 <Rubidium> it's only half a screen wide in my editor on my poor laptop
13:34:59 <OwenS> Nicer on the eyse when staring at code all day
13:35:48 <Rubidium> yup... the eternal battle between seeing more context and not straining the eye too much
13:36:33 <OwenS> I have good eyesight... and would like to keep it that way :p
13:37:41 <OwenS> 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 120 112 000 Old_age Always - 30
13:37:54 <OwenS> I hope my disk is lying when it claims it's 120 deg C!
13:38:36 <SmatZ> 190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022 056 053 045 Old_age Always - 44 (Lifetime Min/Max 17/44)
13:38:50 <SmatZ> merry Christmas to you :)
13:39:09 <Rubidium> what tool's that output of? smartctl?
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13:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> OwenS: 120 is the raw value, 30 is the "human readable" value
13:39:39 <OwenS> Why does it say VALUE MAX .... RAW at the end? And the RAW is the 30
13:40:18 <dihedral> smatzctl -A /dev/sdb :-P
13:40:20 <OwenS> And just to be weird, the topmost of my drives is coolest...
13:40:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, because it has the best airflow
13:40:56 <OwenS> The bottom most one is right behind a 160mm fan...
13:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> well... so much for that theory :p
13:41:27 <OwenS> The middle most one is warmest at 34C
13:42:06 <OwenS> My CPUs at 32C... And the GPU is being silly at 63C
13:42:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0002 166 166 000 Old_age Always - 33 (Lifetime Min/Max 16/66)
13:43:52 <OwenS> How can you be at 63C when all your doing is outputting a 2D framebuffer?!
13:46:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> all your doing is belong to us
13:47:06 <OwenS> Silly GPU with higher maximum power consumption than my CPU...
13:50:09 <planetmaker> OwenS: I'm quite sure the human GPU also uses more power than the rest of the brain :P
13:53:04 <Rubidium> a human's graphical output is kinda limited
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14:02:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> that was fun :p
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14:10:39 <Belugas> MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!!
14:10:57 <Belugas> okay... now that i've said it, i can return drink.. hem... working
14:12:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you work on christmas eve?
14:12:47 <Gekz> its christmas in australia already btw
14:13:20 <petern> i got back from work a little while ago
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14:15:00 <OwenS> O_o wtf happened there?
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14:15:22 <Belugas> you were kicked for insanity on the irc, OwenS
14:15:49 <Belugas> and sorry for you too, petern
14:16:00 <OwenS> "*Disconnected (No route to host)."
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14:17:26 <OwenS> Now the cats trying to eat my USB christmas tree...
14:21:25 <Belugas> this is why i install our christmas tree outside this year. my tiger would not chew on it :)
14:21:54 <Belugas> damn she's a giant one...
14:23:26 <OwenS> The cats haven't pulled down our main christmas tree this year
14:23:54 <Belugas> becasue you do not have a giant cat ;)
14:24:04 <OwenS> They pulled it down twice last year
14:24:19 <OwenS> They like the fluffy baubles, so we now keep them at the top :p
14:27:09 <OwenS> Maine Coon by any chance?
14:27:57 <Belugas> indeed!! WOW!! Congrats :D
14:28:08 <OwenS> I recognize the tiger like face and size
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14:29:37 <dihedral> my word, Belugas, you have a huge ass son :-D
14:30:43 <Belugas> traveled 6 hours (back and forth) to meet the owner of the cattery she came for (in a snow storm...) but it was worth it. That kitty is an absolute treasure
14:31:00 <Belugas> dihedral, his ass is pretty much normal ;)
14:31:54 <Wolfolo|AWAY> is it the cat which is too much big :P
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14:32:15 <OwenS> Our two cats turned out to be treasures too =)
14:32:49 <OwenS> Though a bit ambiguous: Theyre related, but we don't know if theyre sisters or mother and daughter
14:33:46 <OwenS> Gotta love them... most of the time
14:35:55 <dihedral> my move clients patch... hihihi
14:36:14 <dihedral> max_companies setting is not considered when a company is started
14:36:49 <OwenS> Taken a couple of years ago
14:37:06 <OwenS> (Theyre allowed to explore out back off leads now)
14:37:42 <Forked> they look ..real happy ;p
14:37:42 <dihedral> as long as i send the correct docommand and am a spectator i can create companies
14:38:38 <OwenS> Forked: Cats have different expressions to humans ;-)
14:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you have cats on leashes?
14:39:29 <Belugas> i love the black one :)
14:39:35 <OwenS> Used to. Theyre now allowed to roam freely
14:39:52 <OwenS> Black cat is Bliss, tortie is Faith
14:40:16 <OwenS> Bliss is a lot smaller, and somehow has lost her tail
14:40:19 <Belugas> but i would never EVER allowed mine to even put a foot on the outside, leash or not. Anyway it's forbidden by contract with the breeder...
14:41:19 <Belugas> yeah... when you buy a pure breed, you are required to sign a contract. no un-claws, no reproduction, no this or no that...
14:41:39 <OwenS> No declawing? Thats already illegal, at least over here
14:42:09 <petern> i'd rather have a moggy anyway :)
14:42:13 <Eddi|zuHause> cats are supposed to roam freely... they only come home for food and sleep
14:42:14 <Belugas> animal rights is pretty much inexistant, in fact
14:43:10 <OwenS> Ours got tightened at the start of the year
14:43:23 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, i would not let her outside. she's worth 850$ CDN . sorry, but i don't trust neither humam nature nor nature itself...
14:43:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i would not buy a cat for that kind of price anyway
14:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that's just ridiculous
14:44:07 <OwenS> Our house backs on to an enclosed area of gardens, so shes pretty safe
14:44:49 <OwenS> I would say theyre, but Bliss is scared half to death by a strong gust of wind...
14:45:38 <Belugas> i wish Mina would be too, but she's way too adventurous
14:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> how many "adventures" could you have indoors?
14:46:27 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, you pay for something you'll kow you'll gonna get. The race has some features we wanted and that we get and we do appreciate that
14:46:45 <Belugas> many adventures, when you're with a 5 years old boy :)
14:46:54 <OwenS> Shes also pretty smart though. Faith had made a hammock out of a sheet we had draped over a table and chair to dry. Bliss got up on the chair underneath, looked, up, though "hmm", raised her claws, and stabbed
14:47:08 <Belugas> plus, daddy is crazy about his little pet, and we do play a lot together
14:47:18 <Forked> (slow sql server warning:p)
14:47:48 <svippy> Wait, is that album title accurate?
14:48:08 <Forked> sverige? yes these were taking during vacation at my parents "cabin" (holiday palace) this summer
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14:48:37 <svippy> Until they give us back Skåne, I am not visiting Sweden.
14:48:40 <Forked> I played quite alot of ottd there when there was little else to do =p
14:49:07 <OwenS> Who needs an SQL server to serve photos? /me likes the raw speed of Nginx
14:49:13 <svippy> Until they give back Constantinople to the Byzantine Empire, I am not visiting Turkey.
14:49:54 <dihedral> companies should be created on the server and then sent to the clients
14:50:05 <dihedral> rather than the command just sitting in the command queue
14:50:24 <svippy> OwenS: When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
14:50:27 <dihedral> and now i am off to church
14:52:06 <svippy> OwenS: It is like to Sun Microsystem is every problem an object. Things in Java are objects that shouldn't be objects, but built-in commands. But oh no! As for Microsoft, every problem can be fixed with XML.
14:52:25 <svippy> But we know what XML and violence have in common; if it doesn't work, use more of it.
14:52:54 <OwenS> And to *nix everything is a file descriptor... even your graphics card
14:53:18 <svippy> At least we don't have a faulty registry system.
14:53:29 <petern> just lots of different systems
14:53:40 <svippy> I am just saying, OwenS.
14:53:49 <svippy> Whoever wrote that gallery was already found of SQL.
14:53:56 <svippy> So it seemed natural to them to include it in their gallery.
14:54:00 <svippy> Even for no apparent reason.
14:54:04 <svippy> Other than they were used to it.
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15:30:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14736 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
15:30:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-12-24 15:29:53
15:30:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 8 fixed, 37 changed by khaloofah (45)
15:30:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hebrew - 36 fixed by dodibitran (36)
15:30:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 39 changed by fanioz (39)
15:30:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 7 fixed, 27 changed by peerer (34)
15:30:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: serbian - 31 fixed by Jenraux (31)
15:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> what does a saxon say when he wants to buy a cristmas tree in new york?
15:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> ä tännschen please
15:32:36 <Wolf01> In Soviet Russia Christmas trees buy you!
15:36:20 <fjb> KGB bought Soviet Russia.
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15:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> in soviet russia, kgb buys ... wait...
15:44:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
15:56:51 <fjb> In Russia the KGB owns you.
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15:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "Shit. The system has become sentient." - "Friggin' Python." :p
16:05:46 <Bennythen00b> What kinda channel is this then?
16:06:54 <Wolf01> no, you can also feed Sacro with pr0n and blame devs for not adding your most wanted feature
16:07:19 <fjb> This channel is for killing the internet. But don't tell anybody.
16:10:23 <Belugas> question i might have is... If you do not know what that chanel is for : why did you dropped in ??
16:12:19 <Bennythen00b> Because i love Ottd...?
16:12:36 <Bennythen00b> Good enough reason? :P
16:13:03 <glx> usually we don't talk about ottd here :)
16:13:39 <OwenS> Earlier we were having a cat discussion
16:13:56 <Belugas> we talk about code, we bitch each others, cat indeed, music once in a while..
16:14:06 <Bennythen00b> You are crazy and you have got a spare time problem...
16:14:08 <OwenS> And before that having a discussion about hard disk S.M.A.R.T., and the ridiculous temperature of my graphics card
16:14:22 <Belugas> oh... and we answer stupid questions been asked a thousand times already...
16:14:42 <glx> OwenS: mine is currently at 52°C
16:14:43 <Belugas> spare time???? what the hell is that???
16:15:12 <Bennythen00b> The time when you dont work or go to school
16:15:17 <OwenS> glx, and mine is at 70C
16:15:30 <glx> passive or active cooling?
16:15:52 <OwenS> It's an 8800GTS. It doesn't come in passive cooling
16:16:28 <OwenS> And nVIDIA's linux drivers seem to have never heard of underclocking
16:16:48 <Bennythen00b> Gotta go, we're gonna have our christmas dinner now. see ya tomorrow
16:17:14 <OwenS> It's been like that since I got it
16:17:24 <OwenS> Well, no, it hasn't. When I got it it idled at 80
16:17:31 <OwenS> Then I improoved my case cooling
16:17:45 <glx> anyway it's quite safe up to 120°C
16:17:49 <Wolf01> ok, you can talk about ottd again
16:17:53 <glx> but still 80 is a lot when idle
16:18:59 <OwenS> I've even got a case fan blowing under it
16:19:25 <glx> [17:16:13] <+glx> 7900GS <-- it's a 7600GS indeed (dunno why I said 7900)
16:19:50 <OwenS> Even the CPUs just at 44C - and thats at moderate load
16:20:31 <OwenS> OpenTTD is pushing my CPU up to 69% on one core
16:21:12 <OwenS> I know that. The other core is mainly running everything else
16:22:43 <glx> one core for ottd and one for timidity should be ok
16:24:04 <OwenS> People listen to the TTD music?
16:25:23 <OwenS> I personally prefer to use that core to download MPEG 2 Audio Layer 3 or Vorbis
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17:07:12 <Wolf01> does ttf work for you?
17:07:29 <OwenS> No, I'm having trouble connecting
17:19:40 *** George3 is now known as George
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17:51:31 <entropy> where is openttd.cfg, when i compile openttd from sources?
17:52:59 <glx> and it's explained in the readme
17:55:46 <entropy> if i delete it, it'ill restore default?
18:05:45 <entropy> can i change the map size from the console?
18:11:26 <entropy> i don't see that feature in list_cmds
18:11:53 <Belugas> you might find a reference of the name been used for that command in the miki
18:12:17 <glx> try list_vars (or something like that)
18:17:02 <glx> game_creation.map_x and game_creation.map_y to be exact
18:22:12 <entropy> how to change difficulty options
18:35:52 <OwenS> GAAH! Why does OpenTTD's map download protocol seem to go at a sum total of 10kb/s
18:39:41 <OwenS> Or, could it not be made to send "I'm alive" packets to the server when it inevitably churns away for 30 seconds after connecting with the mass of packets that have arrived and not yet been processed?
18:40:53 <SmatZ> OwenS: you are the only one who has problem with slow download... you said you are on 8mbit, right?
18:44:04 <OwenS> And I can pull ~350KB/s fine
18:44:19 <OwenS> Over TCP, from across the pond
18:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> # Leise rieselt der Schneeeeeeeeeeeeeee
18:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause> # Still und starr ruht der Seeeeeeeeeeeeee
18:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> # Weihnachtlich glänzet der Waaaaaaaaaaaaald
18:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause> # Freue dich, 's Christkind kommt baaaaaaaaaaald
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19:13:26 <benjamingoodger> in other news, merry christmas eve for those in UTC-1 and further east
19:14:02 <benjamingoodger> and merry christmas for those in UTC+5 and further east.
19:14:49 <OwenS> Temps Atomique International, or International Atomic Time
19:14:55 <OwenS> UTC = TAI + a few seconds
19:15:05 <OwenS> TAI doesn't have UTC's silly leap seconds
19:15:34 <benjamingoodger> the trouble with atomic time is that it doesn't work properly compared to the earth
19:15:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and happy new year for the people in UTC+173?
19:15:59 <OwenS> Do you care that midnight is 8 seconds off?
19:16:05 <benjamingoodger> absolutment! :)
19:16:08 <benjamingoodger> and yes, I do
19:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you might not care now, but in 2000 years?
19:16:53 <OwenS> Suggestion: Define UTC to be TAI+x, define everything else to be UTC+x, then you have a nice absolute timebase to use when storing timestamps
19:17:15 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause, In 2000 years I'd expect most of humanity would not live on earth
19:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean look at those people that used the caesarian calender
19:17:21 <OwenS> Cause if they do, were screwed
19:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> they also said "do you really care if you are a day off in 4 years"?
19:18:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: didn't you like my singing about snoooooooooow?
19:18:48 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Will people who don't live in Earths planetary rotation care? :p
19:19:09 <Eddi|zuHause> they do have night shifts on the enterprise
19:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> why would they do that, if they didn't care?
19:20:01 <OwenS> Who says that the Enterprise is using Earth's timezone
19:20:19 <OwenS> Is it not equally possible that some of their ships are using, e.g., Vulcans?
19:20:26 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause... hem... sorry... i'm dual-glot
19:21:20 <OwenS> In any case, Star Trek isn't a good model of the future :p
19:21:22 <Eddi|zuHause> your education is lacking ;)
19:21:25 <Belugas> by the way... Eddi|zuHause, i should mention that we're again in the midst of a snow storm
19:21:27 <OwenS> For a start, all ships always meet the right way up
19:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> we have not a single flake of snow for christmas
19:22:02 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, a question... what the hell would german linguistic skills do me good in this american ground? ;)
19:22:05 <OwenS> In real life, they'd probably meet at odd angles, with a high probability of one going backwards
19:22:23 <Belugas> haaaaa..... REALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
19:22:42 * Belugas preforms the sign of the cross numerous times
19:23:07 * Belugas throws Holy Water on Owess
19:23:28 <Belugas> and /me goes back to the drinking part of the job
19:23:31 * OwenS grabs G36 and fires several 5.56mm rounds into Belugas chest :p
19:24:05 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC
19:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: it's much more funny when they get hit that they hang inclined and everybody falls down
19:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> (very satirical)
19:26:06 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause, I'll never understand why they route so many major power conduits behind consoles
19:26:25 <OwenS> The Star Fleet engineers obviously like building deathtraps
19:31:21 <Belugas> or has it just begun?
19:31:51 <OwenS> rofl at that article on German
19:33:11 <Belugas> mmh... a Queensryche song... don't think you would have known, petern
19:34:45 <OwenS> Interestingly, while Japanese may look like one of the most complex languages on the planet, spoken Japanese is even simpler than English
19:36:02 <OwenS> Mainly because the Japanese didn't get invaded every 100 years and have foreigners stuffing up their rules with their imported words
19:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> (it uses a slightly outdated version of german occasionally)
19:38:31 <yorick> japanese is just hard to write and to pronounce
19:38:49 <OwenS> And the other way round to most languages
19:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know any japanese, but i don't think it would be too difficult to learn
19:39:53 <OwenS> The main difficulty learning it is remembering all the different kanji
19:42:18 <yorick> and dutch is hard to pronounce, write, speak, but reading it is easy :)
19:43:25 <OwenS> Fun fact: people who speek svSE can understand svFI, but not vise versa - because the Finns speak what is essentially 1700s Swedish (When not speaking Finnish that is)
19:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that is a natural development for groups of same heritage but isolated areas
19:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the german that is spoken in pennsylvania is not easily understandable for the german that is spoken in romania
19:47:06 <Belugas> hehe.. ask glx if what we are speaking in here is really french ^_^
19:47:14 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause, Finland and Sweden are neighbouring countries. And, up until relatively recently, Finland was a part of Sweden...
19:47:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but there is still a big chunk of sea between them
19:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so exchange of both areas is sparse
19:49:35 <Eddi|zuHause> of course, many german "colonies" in the east were cleaned up during the march of the red army in WWII
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19:53:10 <petern> dihedral! you're still on 11/8 ;)
19:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the isolation effect also not necessarily needs to come out of geographical distance. there are neighbouring villages in central germany, which have so different dialects, that they do not understand each other
19:54:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i need to learn how to formulate shorter sentences.
19:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i have given out draft versions of my diploma thesis, and they come back with several instances of "this sentence is too long", "make this sentence shorter", "this sentence is DEFINITELY too long"
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19:58:45 <OwenS> My Chemistry teacher remarked that, at university, she handed in a long essay to her teacher. When she got it back, he'd crossed out everything but the first paragraph on the first two pages, with the statement "VERBAL DIARRHEA! You answered that question fully in the first paragraph!"
20:03:21 *** benjamingoodger has quit IRC
20:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm not a person of many words
20:04:36 <Eddi|zuHause> when i wrote essays in school, they typically had like half the words the other people had
20:04:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but sentences not under half a page long :p
20:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> making the whole essay consist of 5 sentences :p
20:05:23 <OwenS> I get complained at for overuse of semicolons and commas
20:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause> to which my father once replied: "well, i have written a 2 page letter in one sentence"
20:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> well, my german teacher said: "well, you are the only person in this class who can formulate a sentence of half a page, that is grammatically entirely correct"
20:07:23 <OwenS> I've also been asked what words mean on occasion - case in point, verboten. Which is interestingly stolen from German
20:07:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you know, german has really genious rules of enclosing minor sentences in other minor sentences, and enclosing those into a major sentence
20:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes, you guys only know that from Hogans Heroes ;)
20:08:56 <OwenS> In English we just string them together by using too many commas, semicolons and dashes
20:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it's no fun when all you have to do is replace a period by a comma
20:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> german has the additional fun of splitable verbs
20:09:59 <OwenS> Period? Whats this period you speak of?
20:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> where one part ends up in the begginning of the sentence, and the other part at the end of the sentence
20:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and that part at the end can completely change the meaning of the entire sentence
20:11:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and inbetween those, you can put an endless amount of subsentences
20:12:31 <OwenS> I also enjoy nesting parentheses - which confuses my non programmer friends to no end
20:13:17 <OwenS> Using boolean rather than natural logic is also fun :)
20:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause> there are huge differences if you say: "es fällt ... schwer" [it's difficult], "es fällt ... auf" [it catches attention], "es fällt ... um" [it collapses], or "es fällt ... ein" [being remembered (passive form)]
20:15:01 <Eddi|zuHause> where "fallen" [falling] is the base verb in all cases
20:16:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and "..." can expand to two pages worth of minor sentences ;)
20:16:41 <dihedral> petern: i am not :-P
20:17:09 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause, German is the Rube Goldberg Machine of languages
20:17:27 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: honestly, save for missing "u"s, i cannot tell what is an americanism
20:18:31 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause, Lots of cases of zs, such as realizes/realises, the us, and calling the "full stop" the "period". But thats mostly it
20:18:34 <yorick> forbidden = verboden in dutch ;)
20:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: it would be much easier if you could just call it a "point"
20:20:20 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause, That works too! :p
20:20:55 <OwenS> The term full stop tends only to be used to illustrate a point
20:24:55 <petern> dihedral, not now, no :)
20:25:15 <petern> dihedral, seems to say 1 spectator is on all the time, though :o
20:52:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:11:58 <Belugas> merry christmas and see you soon.
21:12:09 <Belugas> i'm gong to spend a lot of time with my family now
21:25:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14737 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r10211): memory leak in Action 0x0F (new town names)
21:28:27 <OwenS> By the way - I'm gonna shoot anyone sad enough to make a commit on Christmas day (their time) :p
21:32:24 <SmatZ> can you shoot over the internet?
21:39:32 <Eddi|zuHause> he will first have to commit it :p
21:40:28 <fjb> Please shoot only religious Christians.
21:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> christmas is not even the highest holiday of the christians
21:42:09 <yorick> please only shoot people who celebrate christmas
21:44:24 <fjb> Please don't shoot anybody. I'm pacifist.
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21:47:34 <Nite_Owl> Whoa - wait a minute
21:47:45 <yorick> nite owl is very small
21:47:50 <yorick> you can't hide behind him
21:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it's no loss of him, please shoot anyway :p
21:49:42 <Nite_Owl> and did you not have to pass through the metal detector
21:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no menthos
21:52:21 * fjb hides behind Eddi|zuHause.
21:52:30 <Nite_Owl> I thought they might be down
21:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> who let the logs out?
21:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> well, highlight SpComb^ properly :p
22:01:00 <Sacro> I was throwing rice at an Indian wedding and accidentally started a pilau fight.
22:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know pillow fights
22:04:40 <Nite_Owl> A vulture is boarding a plane and has in his hand two dead rabbits. The security guard tells him "Sorry - only one carrion allowed per passenger."
22:10:56 <Eddi|zuHause> too many plays on words... i do not fully grasp it...
22:13:01 <OwenS> 1. (uncountable) Dead flesh; carcasses
22:14:05 <Nite_Owl> plays off of a carry on piece of luggage on an airplane
22:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that part i got ;)
22:33:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14738 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r13576): GCF_STATIC belongs to GRFConfig::flags, not GRFConfig::status
22:47:55 <fjb> Oh, yorick and Nite_Owl got shot.
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23:01:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14739 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r13675): when a static GRF was forcibly disabled, wrong data was released, causing memory leaks and wrong behaviour or crashes
23:05:41 <Rubidium> SmatZ: you just signed your death warrant...
23:06:04 <SmatZ> Rubidium: what have I done? (scared!)
23:06:23 <Rubidium> 22:28 < OwenS> By the way - I'm gonna shoot anyone sad enough to make a commit on Christmas day (their time) :p
23:06:34 <Rubidium> isn't it Christmas day now?
23:07:11 <SmatZ> err I am in China (for OwenS :)
23:09:39 <dihedral> is there a way to send an error message to a client (from the server) without the client being disconnected?
23:09:42 <SmatZ> nice Christmas, dihedral :)
23:09:58 <dihedral> family has gone to bed
23:10:07 <dihedral> so i get time to wrap perssies and do some patching :-P
23:10:21 <dihedral> Rubidium, i meant with the error box popup
23:10:31 <dihedral> but chat will do too i guess
23:10:37 <Rubidium> error messages mean you've done something really really bad and thou shalt be punished ;)
23:11:18 <dihedral> Rubidium, if i am connected to a game and issue CMD_COMPANY_CTRL i can create the maximum number of possible companies
23:11:25 <dihedral> regardless of max_companies setting
23:11:43 <dihedral> i must be spectator though :-)
23:12:42 <OwenS> Rhubidium: I'ts not christmas for another 48 minutes in the UK
23:13:14 <dihedral> and christmas eve has nothing to do with christmas?
23:13:35 <fjb> Its christmas time. lets go shoot people in the name of god.
23:13:41 <benjamin_> merry christmas, UTC+1
23:14:51 *** benjamin_ is now known as benjamingoodger
23:15:14 <Rubidium> looks like someone's already intoxicated
23:18:33 <dihedral> if clients at least would know the current value of the server's max_companies setting
23:18:46 <dihedral> but that is also easy to work around
23:18:55 <Rubidium> dihedral: the server should handle that
23:18:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:19:21 <dihedral> i agree with you there
23:19:27 <dihedral> it would just be nice for the gui too
23:19:33 <dihedral> so i could hide the 'new company' button
23:19:37 <Rubidium> ~ line 910 and further from network_server
23:20:38 <dihedral> i added a check before adding the command to the queue
23:20:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14740 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r13675)(r14739): we shouldn't skip all remaining sprites neither
23:20:49 <dihedral> however, it's the gui button i would also like to hide
23:20:53 <Rubidium> hmm... could pass the "current" max number of companies in there to CMD_CTRL_PLAYER
23:21:52 <dihedral> or make the company update packet a more general update packet
23:22:07 <dihedral> and send an update on all companies + the max_companies value
23:22:31 <dihedral> and push the update on every pw change + max_company change + join
23:22:53 <dihedral> where join would only push the data to one client
23:22:58 <dihedral> and the other 2 to all clients
23:23:00 <Rubidium> you've got the same issue with number of spectators
23:23:32 <dihedral> i.e. joinin spectators in the middle of the game?
23:23:49 <Rubidium> going from company to spectator
23:23:51 <dihedral> perhaps if i make a network action popup an error window?
23:24:00 <Rubidium> could go "beyond" the spectator limit
23:24:31 <SmatZ> I guess this can happen when you go bankrupt
23:25:25 <Rubidium> but that's imo not really a bug; you can't bankrupt yourself in MP, right? So going to spectator means admin intervention
23:25:47 <SmatZ> (except the server may kick you when you issue a command in the moment you bankrupt - you sen command with your old ID, but you should send it with ID == 255)
23:25:56 <SmatZ> you can bankrupt in MP :)
23:26:09 <SmatZ> if you have "red numbers" for > 1 year
23:27:24 <Rubidium> what's FS#1993 about then?
23:28:07 <SmatZ> about singleplayer I guess
23:28:22 <SmatZ> or there broke something since I last looked (~1 year ago)
23:29:12 <SmatZ> eg. company bankrupted in singleplayer, but later was loaded in MP, and it never disappeared
23:31:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> error messages mean you've done something really really bad and thou shalt be punished ;) <- my language sense tells me it should be "shallst" [or something]?
23:32:51 <Rubidium> then fix you language sense ;)
23:33:00 <Rubidium> "thou shalt not steal"
23:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, might both be steps of the language development
23:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause> or rather... language degration
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continue to next day ⏵
