IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-12-22
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00:00:27 <benjamingoodger> good night, TrueBrain
00:02:25 <dihedral> Rubidium, it would only need 'syncing' if it changed from true to false or vice versa
00:02:32 <dihedral> not though if the password changes
00:03:42 <dihedral> i am trying to work on the move clients patch in a way that clients can join companies, and was wanting to avoid the server having to request a password
00:03:56 <dihedral> but the client doing that check and then sending the password in the same packet or not
00:04:49 <Rubidium> that'd require storing the network seed of the server too
00:05:35 <dihedral> how else does the client set a company password?
00:05:51 <dihedral> i hashes, and sends the hash to the server
00:06:10 <dihedral> does not ask the server for the unique_id and seed and then hash and send back to the server, right?
00:07:08 <Rubidium> the server only sends the unique ID when it's needed, i.e. when the client needs to enter a company password
00:07:29 <Rubidium> oh... also in the welcome packet
00:07:43 <dihedral> when i am already in the game, and set a password, the client does not request that data again
00:08:01 <Rubidium> yup... it's stored at client side
00:08:19 * Rubidium is tired and hasn't looked at the network code for a while
00:08:20 <dihedral> thought i was going bonkers for a second :-P
00:08:52 <dihedral> now i am writing a move patch, where clients can be moved by the server, or clients can request the server to move them
00:09:34 <dihedral> if they want to be moved to a pw protected company, i was hoping for them to not have to query the server for that bit
00:10:28 <dihedral> would it be reasonable to sync that one boolean flag, or would it be better practice to let the client request the move, and the server request the password if needed
00:13:00 <dihedral> if the client knows of companies requiring a password or not, it's easier to 'cancel' the join
00:13:00 <Rubidium> SmatZ: rather not... that requires keeping state at the server
00:14:12 <dihedral> you would have to keep, which company the client is trying to join, which company the client is in right now, and have a timeout for accepting the password
00:14:13 <SmatZ> Rubidium: then I didn't understand the question correctly, but the server already knows if there is a password for given company - or am I that wrong?
00:15:01 <dihedral> SmatZ: _network_company_info[index].use_password is a boolean flag
00:15:10 <dihedral> which is not a lot of data to also keep synced
00:15:24 <SmatZ> Rubidium: ah ok... I should go to bed, I am so tired today :-x
00:17:52 <dihedral> haha! it's already being sent
00:18:01 <dihedral> probably just not kept up to date
00:18:05 <Rubidium> Ruudjah|energetic: I think the replace vehicle every week problem should be solved and not that new vehicles get a higher rating; just make it more expensive to buy-sell-buy-sell-buy-sell than using the vehicle for a while
00:18:24 <Rubidium> dihedral: after getting the lobby it's never updated
00:18:37 <Rubidium> so at "join" it's already out-of-sync
00:19:00 <dihedral> so i just need to update all clients with PACKET_SERVER_COMPANY_INFO
00:19:19 <dihedral> or is that a overkill
00:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: how about "after a vehicle left the depot, it immediately loses 20% of its value"?
00:19:42 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that's the idea for a few months already
00:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (which is actually realistic, e.g. if you buy a car)
00:20:17 <Rubidium> but then... I reckon I've written it down before somewhere
00:22:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like a more complex system of "new" and "used" vehicle pools
00:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> where "new" vehicles represent the amount the factories could produce, and "used" vehicles represent a pool of previously owned vehicles (possibly by virtual companies that are not present on the map)
00:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the prices of "new" vehicles could then rise significantly, if the number of requests exceeds the production capacity
00:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and production capacity could be subject to similar modifiers as model reliability
00:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. start out low with the prototypes. then rise to a higher value, where really popular models can reach high availability, and then drop towards the end of the model life time
00:27:26 <Eddi|zuHause> second market availability would start out at 0 during prototype phase, then slowly rise during the model life, and reach its peak before the end of the first prototype's vehicle life
00:28:28 <Eddi|zuHause> so even if vehicles are not available as "new" anymore, there would still be availability from the "used" market, with decreased vehicle life, but cheaper
00:28:54 <Ruudjah|energetic> sorry, was afk. Rubidium: awesome. I think so too. As I noted already in the topic, CBV goal games dont care about 75% value of new trains bought. Btw, it would make the company value bad
00:29:14 <Ruudjah|energetic> since every train brought makes the company value devaluate 25% of train value
00:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, bank money should not count to company value
00:30:11 <Rubidium> but a trip would gain "income - running cost - 20 % of new vehicle value"
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00:31:16 <Eddi|zuHause> a two market model like my suggestion would even increase that 20% margin for people who use that tactics extensively
00:31:27 <Ruudjah|energetic> yes, but ncv is caluclated of train worth. having 100K, and spending this on trains now still gets u ncv of 100K. Then it would be different.
00:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the new price would grow insanely high, while the second market gets flooded with vehicles, so the selling value drops
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00:35:53 <Eddi|zuHause> money that is not spent has no value
00:36:42 <Ruudjah|energetic> i believe in ottd it does.
00:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> company value should be calculated purely from the company's property (vehicles, stations, infrastructure)
00:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and that is flawed
00:37:38 <Ruudjah|energetic> that is why Kurt developed his own company value, NCV, Net Company Value
00:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> especially during times where the company has bank loan
00:38:10 <Rubidium> but then buying unused vehicles can just artificially increase your company value
00:38:31 <Rubidium> or making many stations
00:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause> if the game was properly balanced, the company would always run on bank loan
00:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> part of the balance problem currently is, that net income grows linearly with number of vehicles
00:40:43 <Rubidium> then it'd be unplayable for Ruudjah|energetic's mother
00:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it should grow sublinearly
00:41:52 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be company management maintenance
00:42:14 <Eddi|zuHause> not just running costs of individual vehicles
00:43:12 <Eddi|zuHause> something that has little effect on companies with 10 vehicles, but huge effect on companies with 1000 vehicles
00:43:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you want to grow even further, you'll have to "outsource" part of your network
00:43:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that'll be a nice challenge for the coop people :p
00:45:55 <dihedral> Rubidium, if say the company name changes, how is that data transfered to all clients?
00:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd imagine something in O(n^2) in the amount of vehicles owned
00:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> where you could also give different weights to vehicles
00:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. 1 for train wagons, 2 for trucks, 5 for train engines, 10 for aircraft
00:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> so 1 aircraft would cause the same management proplems as a train with 5 wagons
00:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> a business model like this can also introduce "realistic" behaviour of closing down small branch lines
00:51:27 <Rubidium> dihedral: CMD_CHANGE_COMPANY_NAME (or something like that)
00:51:49 <dihedral> oh - so it's handled as a command in the queue
00:52:34 <dihedral> so i would either need to add a new packet to sync some company details or let the server keep the state...
00:52:37 <Rubidium> yup... as it isn't network specific
00:54:02 <dihedral> that would be a very small network packet if all it had to do was update a boolean flag
00:54:28 <dihedral> little amount of data - huge overhead :-P
00:56:21 <dihedral> sounds too yucky imo
00:56:45 <Rubidium> not syncing's also yucky
00:57:10 <dihedral> perhaps there is more data that needs syncing
00:57:24 <dihedral> and that could be combined
00:57:52 <dihedral> btw, while i think of it
00:58:15 <dihedral> there is a beautiful line: /* protected */ StrEmpty(npi->password) ? "un" : "");
00:58:38 <dihedral> why not use npi->use_password ? "un" : "" ); instead?
00:59:07 <Rubidium> as servers don't set the use_password bool
00:59:40 <dihedral> (just out of curiosity)
01:00:00 <Rubidium> cause it's unneeded maintaince of variables
01:00:39 <dihedral> else they could not send the details to the clients in the lobby
01:01:01 <Rubidium> technically use_password is for clients and password is for servers and warrants a base class with subclasses
01:01:11 <Rubidium> dihedral: every read the sending part?
01:01:32 <Rubidium> just search for use_password in e.g. network_server.cpp
01:01:47 <dihedral> yep its used in PACKET_SERVER_COMPANY_INFO
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01:08:26 <dihedral> well - i shall head to bed
01:08:38 <dihedral> thank you Rubidium for your help
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03:38:30 <Dr_Link> How do I set up a dedicated server to use a specific map as opposed to a fractal map?
03:48:46 <benjamingoodger> it's 04:45 here... so, everyone who knows is asleep, sorry
03:50:19 <Dr_Link> It's 10:50 PM on my end...
03:52:01 <benjamingoodger> well, yes, but there are other timezones besides EST
03:52:11 <Dr_Link> I'm well aware of that one.
03:52:16 <Dr_Link> Never mind that now, I may have found my answer.
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06:35:31 <George> What is the right way to do version check? I do the following code, but no error message is displayed
06:35:34 <George> 4 * 9 09 A1 04 \7> E8 38 00 07 01
06:35:34 <George> 5 * 11 0B 03 7F 00 "r14569" 00
06:35:34 <George> 6 * 9 09 A1 04 \7< E9 38 00 07 00
07:00:28 <SpComb^> Dr_Link: `-g foo.sav`?
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08:08:54 <Rubidium> George: in which version is no error message shown?
08:33:34 <Rubidium> George: looks like skipping 0 sprites with action 7/9 disables the NewGRF; in this case in the initialisation stage, which means the stage after that is never ran (and action b is generally not ran during initialisation)
08:33:56 <Rubidium> so the newgrf is disabled due to skipping 0 sprites before the action b is executed
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08:35:14 <frosch123> disabled due to skipping 0 <- that is correct behaviour
08:35:45 <Rubidium> replacing your action 9s with action 7s solves the problem
08:43:13 <petern> hmm, will we ever solve the loading stage misbehaviour...
08:45:44 <Rubidium> more specifically, is it incorrect in George's case?
08:46:19 <frosch123> depends whether George set bit 7 of actionb severity :)
08:46:50 <frosch123> then it is correct IMO :)
08:49:09 <frosch123> yup, he has to set bit 7
08:49:40 <frosch123> I guess he cannot use action7 as he has to skip certain stuff for ttdp
08:52:34 <frosch123> "You must not skip an action 2 at all unless skipping the entire rest of the file" <- according to specs OTTD is on the safe side :)
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09:25:37 <dihedral> Rubidium, can you think of any other data that could be synced at the same time as the use_password flag?
09:27:10 <Rubidium> yes, but it wouldn't be useful ;)
09:33:31 <Rubidium> oh... you're taking it too seriously ;)
09:35:56 <Rubidium> syncing unuseful stuff is pointless as it doesn't get used
09:36:40 <dihedral> depending on what it is
09:38:51 <Rubidium> if could think of anything that could get used I'd've written another reply
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11:58:15 <yorick> is it a bug or a feature that trains actually reserve through stations when they stop at a platform?
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12:28:08 <Progman> feature, otherwise a train from the other entry can enter the same station, which results in a crash
12:31:11 <yorick> Progman: no, because the first train has already reserved the platform
12:31:37 <Progman> thats what you are asking, aren't you?
12:32:03 <Progman> or do you mean the reservation throught the station until EOL or a signal?
12:39:39 <Alberth> yorick: what you want to ask is whether a platform should also be considered to be a 'safe' position to stop
12:40:52 <dihedral> yorick, until the next signal
12:41:07 <dihedral> hence there are pbs signals trans can pass from the back
12:41:18 <dihedral> and there are ones that cannot be passed from the back
12:42:49 <yorick> yes, but why isn't a platform a 'safe' position, like it was in the original YAPP, AFAIK
12:43:33 <dihedral> so you need signals after the station - looks nicer :-P
12:43:52 <dihedral> is there an 'easy' way to prompt a client for a password?
12:45:37 <yorick> dihedral: with or without mayor changes on the client side?
12:45:59 <yorick> mmm, private chat to ask for password
12:46:03 <dihedral> hence the use of the word 'easy'
12:46:12 <dihedral> yorick, you are an idiot
12:47:03 <yorick> could you give any argument?
12:51:52 <frosch123> everything more detailed would mean a lot more work, but I guess you will have enough work to interpret this one :p
12:59:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14709 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make a clearer distinction between 'unique' client identification ids and the indices into the clients/client info arrays.
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13:00:11 <yorick> "when the mouse button is depressed" :D
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13:13:01 <petern> hmm, XP SP3 failed to install :o
13:14:54 <svippy> How is that possible?!
13:15:03 <svippy> I thought everything Microsoft wrote was the best software ever!
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14:02:52 <svippy> Bloody chunda my net is terrible.
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14:05:12 <svippery> Why does my router keep restarting?
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14:07:33 <svippery> Hm, Forked. It is pretty quite to restart.
14:07:43 <svippery> Unfortunately, its logs does not tell me why it goes off.
14:11:21 <yorick> I rememer seeing a screenshot of a station with a bridge above on fuzzle.org
14:11:34 <yorick> with some newgrf variable and callback
14:19:53 <yorick> it says "off coudse, there is nothing here yet. Camera System Information"
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14:24:09 <yorick> 4A is the animation frame variable
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14:57:39 * Belugas salutes ya, mister my friend
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15:18:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14710 /trunk/src/network/ (network_client.cpp network_server.cpp): -Change: simplify sending company information from the server to the client.
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15:54:43 <petern> SmatZ, you're good at maths, aren't you?
15:58:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm usually good at maths
15:59:17 <petern> why is our realistic acceleration so wrong?
15:59:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that i can't judge without an abstraction of the formulas involved
16:03:41 <Belugas> becasue it tries to mimic reality
16:04:01 <petern> it's nothing like reality
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16:05:44 <petern> the original acceleration is more realistic in some regards
16:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause> GetTrainAcceleration has a distinct deficiency of comments
16:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> int mass = v->u.rail.cached_weight; <- and that simply strikes me as odd...
16:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause> either it is weight, or it is mass
16:06:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it cannot be both
16:08:20 <thingwath> on this planet it shouldn't matter, or I'm wrong?
16:08:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a matter of units and conversion factors
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16:09:11 <petern> mass and weight can mostly be interchanged
16:09:43 <Eddi|zuHause> v->acceleration = Clamp(power / weight * 4, 1, 255); <- and magic numbers like this 4 really need to be documented
16:10:39 <Eddi|zuHause> return (force - resistance) / (mass * 4); <- in context with lines such as these, there might even be a bracket missing
16:11:00 <Eddi|zuHause> or is the one 4 meant to cancel out the other 4?
16:11:20 <petern> the first one is part of the original acceleration model
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16:11:27 <petern> the second one is part of 'realistic' acceleration
16:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> really, this function should either get reverse engineered and fully documented, or completely rewritten from a clean physical model
16:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and if one rewrites this, the curve speed limits should not depend on train length, imho
16:16:10 <petern> it's partly complicated by odd units, as m/s basically doesn't work with integers...
16:16:13 <thingwath> realistic acceleration is a nice thing, but realistic brakes would be great
16:16:42 <petern> that's the other thing
16:16:57 <petern> in our model braking force is dependent on engine power...
16:17:24 <thingwath> that makes any sense?
16:19:05 <Eddi|zuHause> min(max_te, power) <-- wtf?
16:19:15 <Eddi|zuHause> apples are lighter than bananas?
16:20:24 <thingwath> I don't like that short trains have as effective brakes as the long ones
16:22:35 <De_Ghosty> ytains can magic stop at 200km/h
16:22:47 <De_Ghosty> as long as they hit a red light
16:23:16 <thingwath> well, it could work for real-life train too, just substitute red light with concrete wall
16:24:31 * Rubidium wonders what train can't stop in 300+ km ;)
16:25:41 <thingwath> to derail is not to stop
16:26:16 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and what i think should be important for an acceleration rewrite: make the scale factors configurable... e.g. two slope tiles in X distance mean Y% slope
16:27:21 <thingwath> nice idea, if it can be implemented
16:28:32 <petern> maybe we should emulate the longer length of a slope...
16:28:46 <petern> 17.888 units instead of 16 ;)
16:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> petern: i don't remember ever seeing a railway working on 50% slope :p
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16:44:26 <planetmaker> hm... I make the train list of a waypoint sticky, the waypoint window itself not.
16:44:41 <planetmaker> Then pressing close all windows (delete), the train list is closed, too
16:46:20 <planetmaker> another thing: when copying orders: clicking on "goto button" I can subsequently use ctrl+click on another train to copy its order to the currently selected train
16:46:45 <planetmaker> if I use the shortcut "g" instead of the mouse button, I get an "error copying shared orders".
16:47:27 <planetmaker> if I don't open the order window priviously explicitly
16:47:54 <planetmaker> maybe that shouldn't work... but... :)
16:47:57 <Rubidium> the first thing is known and it's clashing of two features (and we're not sure which feature to prioritise)
16:48:17 <planetmaker> yeah, petern :) Just asking whether it's really bugs :)
16:48:28 <Rubidium> and the second sounds really vague to me (got no clue what you mean)
16:49:06 <planetmaker> Rubidium: when I have the train window open, "g" gives me the "goto mouse cursor". But copying the orders of another train to the train fails
16:49:55 <planetmaker> yeah. Adding a station works.
16:50:22 <planetmaker> but let me check it more closely when what.
16:51:51 <planetmaker> ah. different thing happens: I have already one order window open. Copying identical orders to a train fails
16:52:32 <planetmaker> didn't notice as I opened the train window of another train (with different orders) after that - which caused confusion on my side
16:55:37 <Ruudjah|energetic> when competng, the third player is ignored by ottd's distribution/competition model. Is this desired behaviour (intentional), or is this just something inherited from the past>
16:56:43 <Ruudjah|energetic> thats a great answer :)
16:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but this must stay among us
16:56:59 <Ruudjah|energetic> ok, will do.
16:57:12 <Dr_Link> I'm having a problem with my dedicated server...
16:57:12 <Ruudjah|energetic> we keep it our little secret :+
16:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (i don't think any non-german can get this reference...)
16:58:09 <Dr_Link> I want the plane speed to be 1/1 and for drive through stations to be built on town owned roads, but for some reason when starting my server with the -D -g "scenario/map.scn" options, it doesn't respect these rules which have been set in openttd.cfg.
16:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Dr_Link: loading a savegame will also load the settings from the savegame
16:59:14 <Rubidium> Dr_Link: openttd.cfg only works for new games (and scenarios are not new games)
16:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so you must open the .scn in your local game, modify the settings, and save it back
16:59:29 <Dr_Link> Well then, that should be simple enough to fix.
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17:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> # Der Stürmer sagt zum Trainer: 'Trainer, ich treff das Tor nicht!'
17:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> # Der Trainer sagt zum Stürmer: 'Stürmer, du triffst den Ball nicht!'
17:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause> # Das muß aber unter uns bleiben!
17:06:46 <Ruudjah|energetic> Rubidium, do you have an idea on third player competition?
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17:08:50 <Dr_Link> Server !Simulation Nation [Eastern US Heightmap] now running.
17:09:11 <dihedral> Dr_Link, that add will not get players to your server ;-)
17:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> # Und der Trainer sagt: 'Als erstes anlaufen, Augen schließen, Hymne singen, abziehen'
17:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause> # 'Kucken was der Ball macht!'
17:15:25 <Yorick> Rubidium: I guess you should bump NETWORK_COMPANY_INFO_VERSION with 14710
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17:19:10 <Yorick> (I guess I'm on his ignore)
17:22:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you very likely are.
17:24:37 <dihedral> Yorick, that is your own silly fault
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17:25:46 <dihedral> and that will not help either
17:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... should i rather settle a 13/5 or a 12/2 planet?
17:26:50 <petern> what's that, ratio of women to men?
17:29:47 <Eddi|zuHause> the first figure is size (*10 => maximum population), the second is class (*250 => upkeep cost for the colony)
17:30:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and the 10 more population don't generate enough tax to make up for the 750 upkeep
17:30:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and they would generate only slightly more science/production output
17:31:29 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 13.3333333333
17:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> note that the size can be increased with technology
17:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and the class can be reduced with terraforming (which is expensive at first, but really pays out later)
17:37:24 <Rubidium> Ruudjah|energetic: "can't be arsed as it works for my playing style"
17:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> # Dann sagt der Meister: 'Das isn Draht!'
17:44:52 <Eddi|zuHause> # Und der Geselle sagt: 'Kann ich den mal anfassen?'
17:44:55 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
17:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> # 'Nein! Als erstes Lehrling rufen und dann gibst du dem das in die Hand...'
17:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause> # 'Einschalten!'
17:45:53 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, dat reicht!
17:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but the song is so great :p
17:46:27 <dihedral> the write the text to paste.openttd.org and give the url
17:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i already gave the youtube link :p
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18:20:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14711 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: don't misuse the _network_company_info password field for changing the password on clients.
18:24:59 <dihedral> Rubidium, rename the function to HashCompanyPassword (i.e. removing the 'Current')?
18:26:54 <Dr_Link> <dihedral> Dr_Link, that add will not get players to your server ;-)
18:27:16 <Dr_Link> that "add" was not intended to bring more users. ;)
18:27:25 <Dr_Link> I have a site I can advertise on since it's my own, so I have no need to.
18:27:42 <Rubidium> dihedral: it sets the password of the current (local) company of the server
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18:28:57 <dihedral> so i need GenerateCompanyPasswordHash() :-P
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18:34:52 <dihedral> i managed to get the command capture in ap+ to work
18:35:00 <dihedral> i use an openttd console alias
18:35:12 <dihedral> alias ap_cmd "%+ ; echo donecapture"
18:35:36 <dihedral> aliases are handled in a way that no output will slip in between
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18:41:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14712 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: split server and client side w.r.t. the storage of network related company information.
18:44:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14713 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:44:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-12-22 18:43:52
18:44:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 14 fixed, 144 changed by khaloofah (158)
18:44:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hebrew - 9 fixed, 1 changed by davidx123 (10)
18:44:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 17 changed by IPG (17)
18:44:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 136 changed by fanioz (119), sireno (17)
18:44:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 116 fixed, 235 changed by peerer (351)
18:52:19 <Belugas> [13:25] <dihedral> Rubidium, rename the function to HashCompanyPassword<--- me wants to smoke CompanyPassword!!
19:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... for someone on a lonely unknown island, this crusoe guy surely has a lot of visitors
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19:28:45 <DorpsGek> dihedral: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 21 hours, 20 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
19:29:11 <dihedral> hello Sacro, Hello Belugas
19:48:33 <dihedral> Rubidium, clients only receive the PACKET_SERVER_COMPANY_INFO from the lobby
19:49:08 <dihedral> but if you issue a connect <host> console command, or run ./openttd -n <host> that info is not sent to the clients
19:49:56 <dihedral> that is nasty - the client takes that info from the map, and misses the multiplayer data
20:00:02 <yorick> I don't see anything nasty...companies are just sent by the map, clients are sent by network
20:05:26 <Ruudjah|energetic> ""can't be arsed as it works for my playing style" --> huh?
20:15:56 <Rubidium> dihedral: what multiplayer data does it miss?
20:16:33 <Wolf01> I'm the fucking antichrist!
20:16:35 <Wolf01> ...oops, wrong reality
20:23:01 <frosch123> no, no, you are quite right here
20:30:46 <Dr_Link> How do I get MP3 audio working in 0.6.3?
20:30:59 <Dr_Link> Simply placing the .mp3 files in /gm/ doesn't do anything.
20:32:29 <petern> ottd is not an mp3 player
20:33:18 <Dr_Link> Owen seems to have been developing it for 0.6 in the past.
20:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't mean it was included in 0.6
20:35:02 <OwenS> I was wondering who was saying I was developing MP3 support for a moment there O_o
20:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i think we discussed that "owen" issue not only once in the past :p
20:37:48 <OwenS> The way people talking to me keep pinging him? :P
20:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. that is exactly the most common case :p
20:40:29 * OwenS expects him to wander in in a few minutes and grumble :p
20:41:42 <yorick> maybe he only highlights on orudge
20:41:59 <Dr_Link> he'll be grumbling now for sure then.
20:42:04 <OwenS> No, cause them he misses everyone calling him Owen :p
20:42:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14714 /trunk/src/network/ (network.cpp network_func.h): -Codechange: only allocate the company network "state" variables (password/months not used) when needed, i.e. only for servers.
20:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: what have you done... you opened pandoras box with your network feature request
20:43:45 * Wolf01 is wondering how many features OTTD will bring to him this Christmas
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20:47:02 <Dr_Link> that's why so many nightlies were released today?
20:48:47 <Dr_Link> but I'm talking about the network stuff today
20:50:19 <Dr_Link> well, then I must have my terms confused
20:50:37 <Dr_Link> they compiled several builds today.
20:50:50 <lolman> Dr_Link: no, they committed several changes
20:50:51 <yorick> no, they committed several changesets today
20:52:19 <Dr_Link> What about that PPC port of OpenTTD? Isn't it "not official"?
20:53:31 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, i'll show you sooner or later
20:53:33 <yorick> it's it very unofficial
20:53:42 <Rubidium> Dr_Link: PPC is ambiguous
20:53:54 <dihedral> (me is deving on a PPC :-P)
20:54:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hence "ambiguous"
20:55:56 <Rubidium> guess that's probably the most used multiple syllable word I used the last 24 hours
20:56:10 <Wolf01> [21:53:54] <dihedral> (me is deving on a PPC :-P) <- me on a pocketpc :P
20:56:20 <yorick> the pocket pc, where the "support the openttd team" link points to a donation page of their own
21:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of the bad things about "plain english"... you can get through a whole day with hardly any 2-syllable words...
21:00:18 <Eddi|zuHause> try that in german...
21:00:21 <Dr_Link> How come some of the latest nightly builds don't require any of the TTD .grf files?
21:00:34 <Dr_Link> yet every single forum topic I see says they do require them?'
21:00:54 <Dr_Link> I can doubleclick on openttd.exe and it'll open without requesting for them
21:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but they will search for them on a central place
21:01:06 <glx> Dr_Link: if you have opengrf
21:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so when you set this up once, you will not have any trouble anymore
21:02:28 <glx> also if you put TTD files in a "global" dir it's available for all OTTD versions
21:02:42 <glx> all is explained in readme
21:03:32 <Dr_Link> Explain those, because I suspect that they contain the graphics files.
21:03:53 <glx> .obg don't contain any graphics
21:04:18 <glx> openttd[dw].grf contain only ottd specific graphics
21:10:38 <jerkerTaggart> hello! is the new graphics complete so there can be a complete GPL release?
21:11:56 <George> frosch123: could you make just the same table as did first time (where al the CBs are summarized)? If it is not hard for you, of cause. Before detailed view of your detailed information, I'd like to understand general change with yesterday files
21:12:41 <George> I mean, was global disabling of CBs 26 and 27 useful or not.
21:15:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14715 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move some network code from the main gui file into one of the the network files.
21:15:32 <George> Visualy, I could not see the speed change on the fast-forward mode in the 2kx2k map. So, I get a filling that returning FF 80 for CB 26 (I hope it gives the same result as FF 80 for CB 25) does not giv the effect.
21:17:11 <George> frosch123: as for version check problem - what would be the best?
21:17:37 <George> In case when I do the similar code for TTDP and OTTD
21:17:41 <George> 1 * 9 09 8B 04 \7> 68 20 60 02 01
21:17:41 <George> 2 * 14 0B 03 7F 00 "2.6 r2069" 00
21:17:41 <George> 3 * 9 09 8B 04 \7< 69 20 60 02 00
21:17:41 <George> 4 * 9 09 A1 04 \7> E8 38 00 07 01
21:17:41 <George> 5 * 11 0B 03 7F 00 "r14569" 00
21:17:43 <George> 6 * 9 09 A1 04 \7< E9 38 00 07 00
21:26:22 <frosch123> I guess it is enough to set bit 7 of action b severity. (Didn't rubidium tell you that already?)
21:26:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14716 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move more network core querying to the network files.
21:27:00 <George> frosch123: Thank you. Now I'm very confused. I've removed fast all usage of CB 27, but your table shows that I got only 30% saving. WHY?
21:27:12 <George> Hope you are using the latest ones?
21:30:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14717 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Change: more 'Index' -> ClientID to not confuse ClientID and ClientIndex
21:31:13 <frosch123> George: I generated a new map, so different industry amounts
21:31:28 <frosch123> take a look at the detailed stats, how much the industry numbers differ
21:31:42 <frosch123> they also contain the exact versions
21:32:44 <George> Yes, I have to do it now. I supposed to get a huge (more than 2 times change) in a general viewm where exact nuber of industries does not play a lot
21:32:49 *** yorick is now known as Guest804
21:34:21 <frosch123> George: note that february has about 10% less calls than march :)
21:34:50 <George> previously, almost every secon industry had CB 27, while now only 3 of them has. I supposed to get a big change, but was not succesful :(
21:36:23 <frosch123> Isn't 66347512 -> 37119880 quite a success?
21:37:12 <orudge> [20:40:29] * OwenS expects him to wander in in a few minutes and grumble :p <-- quite, the openttdcoop channel has been on constant highlight for the past few days
21:37:22 <orudge> if anybody actually wants me there, well, ping me here :p
21:38:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14718 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Change: remove some direct network core variable accesses from non-network locations.
21:39:09 <George> frosch123: yes, but I hoped for more. This means that I made something wrong somewhere and I should find what and where
21:43:28 <OwenS> orudge, I suppose it doesn't help that my OpenTTD player name is Owen :P
21:44:44 <petern> hmm, my track following code is wrong :o
21:44:51 <petern> the vehicle length alters, hehe
21:44:59 <OwenS> I also occasionally receive TT-Forums PMs for the other Owen as well :p
21:45:36 <orudge> as long as you don't receive donations for me ;)
21:46:19 <OwenS> I haven't been lucky enough this far :(
21:48:00 <Dr_Link> you're in charge of the improved music...
21:48:30 <Dr_Link> where do I place my folder full of openttd.ogg files? I have an m3u file that I'm editing with Notepad... it's pointing to gm\song-name.ogg
21:49:09 <Dr_Link> or should I change that entry in the m3u?
21:50:38 <petern> support for that has not been added since you last asked
21:51:01 <Dr_Link> It was added in 2005...
21:51:48 <Dr_Link> ...or don't tell me that was just for the nightlies.
21:53:04 <orudge> Dr_Link: No code has been added to OpenTTD for playing MP3s or Vorbis files
21:53:10 <orudge> an updated version may be at some point
21:53:13 <orudge> but currently it's not possible
22:05:31 <petern> "All 27,000 permanent and temporary staff will lose their jobs unless a last-minute buyer can be found."
22:05:37 <petern> sucks to work a woolworths...
22:08:58 * frosch123 is gone for about a week or more
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22:31:34 * Belugas is gone for the night
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22:56:24 <dihedral> nice commits there Rubidium
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23:38:09 <svippy> Why can't bridges be invisible?
23:45:28 <svippy> Does providing goods for a town help it grow?
23:56:18 <fjb> Nobody would use an invisible bridge. they would fear to fall off.
23:56:54 <fjb> Providing goods to a town does not help it grow (as was often answered in the forum).
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