IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-10-05
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09:33:21 <petern> TrueBrain, you have scripting language experience...
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09:48:40 <Alberth> Always nice when people state such things as fact :)
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10:46:41 <TrueBrain> petern: tnx, I guess ...
10:47:00 <petern> I'm looking to do something with one :)
10:47:15 <petern> So I wanted to steal your knowledge.
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10:48:44 <petern> Looking at Lua but it seems the API is different between 5.0 and 5.1...
10:49:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
10:50:11 <TrueBrain> lua is the first scripting language which can be embedded in an application, without it leaking memory, or using a lot of memory
10:50:18 <TrueBrain> which is amazing :)
11:01:49 <petern> Crap, my config is all wrong for 0.6.3...
11:15:40 <TrueBrain> KDE 4.1 has its bugs, so it seems ...
11:15:58 <TrueBrain> My desktop is at 1024x768, while my screen is at 1280x1024 ...
11:16:06 <TrueBrain> pretty annoying ...
11:16:15 <TrueBrain> you can't move most of the widgets, so it seems ... pretty annoying :(
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11:16:45 <DJNekkid> -1 * 0 00 00 \b1 01 \b*14 1A \b*8503 // BDVmot w/mail This should set the vehicle with ID 14 in front of 8503 ... right?
11:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i found KDE 4 way too unmatured
11:19:51 <Ammler> TrueBrain: still 3.5 here.
11:20:08 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I start to have the same feeling ..
11:20:25 <TrueBrain> whoho, OpenTTD in 1m15, that is a lot faster ... :)
11:20:49 <TrueBrain> I think I will downgrade now, as there are too many bugs ... and just install compiz for the same visual effects :p
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11:24:53 <welshdragon> fuco's away nick is kinda offensive
11:26:18 <TrueBrain> Only if you have a REALLY dirty mind ... :s
11:27:39 <TrueBrain> which is your problem
11:28:14 <welshdragon> i blame my friends
11:28:53 <Chrill> regarding new websitE: I cannot find the old scenarios that could be found there, incl. the Africa scenario?
11:29:39 <Chrill> are these nowhere to be found, or do I simply fail? :P
11:37:38 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: and aren't they embedded in latest release, you said?
11:39:14 <TrueBrain> idiotic KDE4 ... brr
11:39:27 <TrueBrain> also, idiotic debian, for that matter
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11:40:39 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: old scenarios implies (for me at least) pre 0.5 scenarios
11:51:42 <Chrill> well, Africa is pre 0.5 afaik
11:52:25 <Alberth> Can NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH be increased? My HG revision text ("h106e41b1M-merge_options") doesn't fit and I get strecpy() messages.
11:54:16 <Alberth> k, we should chop off the last part I guess
11:56:41 <Alberth> but it reports that it is doing that when debug is on, and gives an error (I think, looking at the code) if debug is off. I see little value in that message in this case
11:57:23 <Alberth> I'd prefer that this happens silently
11:59:02 <Rubidium> better this way than the way it was before
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13:35:30 <Alberth> should we extend the 'difficulty_level' with values from advanced settings?
13:46:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but it needs serious reworking of the difficulty system
14:05:45 <Alberth> "Allow removal of more town-owned roads, bridges, etc" setting influences difficulty of the game imho
14:06:54 <Phantasm> It is more of a realism setting. Depending on how it is interpret... In real life a bit company can do lots of stuff inside a city, as long as it makes everything back to same or better. Of course so that it won't affect too much.
14:07:29 <Alberth> ok, this one then: "Weight multiplier for freight to simulate heavy trains"
14:08:16 <Phantasm> It could actually make things easier.. Given hard enough conditions, no matter how they are done, the AI will never ever survive. Thus, no competition. ;P
14:08:27 <Phantasm> But yea, increasing that does increase difficulity somewhat.
14:09:42 <Alberth> Max number of competitors is already a difficulty setting :)
14:10:10 <Phantasm> Yea, but if you make the conditions so hard, that all AIs just die, it is effectively 0 AIs with 7 set.
14:11:28 <Alberth> I guess we can debate what a difficulty setting is and what not.
14:11:41 <Alberth> (and probably never reach agreement)
14:13:45 <Alberth> I was moving the difficulty window to a page in the advanced setting window, and have some trouble deciding where to put the difficulty buttons (easy, medium, hard, custom).
14:20:32 <Swallow> I think most of the current difficulty settings can either be removed or moved to one of the existing advanced settings pages
14:23:56 <Alberth> Moving the difficulty settings is the easy part (although it creates some havoc in the language files). I guess we should keep the difficulty levels, so I need to make room for them in the advanced settings window. Also the high score button needs a new place.
14:24:14 <Rubidium> almost all settings (that are stored in the savegame) influence difficulty
14:24:39 <Rubidium> even the size of the map
14:25:15 <Alberth> so you want to have a larger set of settings controlled by the difficulty_level?
14:26:52 <Rubidium> most of the settings are of the boolean kind, so what is easy, medium and hard?
14:27:09 <Rubidium> why really bother anyway?
14:27:37 <Phantasm> Well, there could be a difficulity number.. With every thing contributing to it.
14:27:43 <Phantasm> Instead of 3 fixed difficulities.
14:28:21 <Rubidium> those should be seen as merely defaults for the "noobs"
14:29:27 <Alberth> one could eg do 'false' for the first two difficulty levels, and 'true' for the third setting.
14:29:54 <Rubidium> but what is difficult?
14:30:03 <Rubidium> take for example gradual loading
14:30:07 <Rubidium> what setting is most easy?
14:31:24 <Alberth> I was typing that 'difficulty' is highly ambigious :) , so indeed it makes no sense imho to spend a large amount of time to it or attempt to fold everything into a single number.
14:33:15 <Alberth> Phantasm: Maybe we should give the player the remains of the AI when it goes bankrupt ,including its debt. Now that would make things difficult :D
14:33:26 <Rubidium> gradual loading CANNOT be classified with: true = easy, false = hard, because true and false are both easy and hard (depending on the vehicle length, loading amounts etc)
14:35:43 <Swallow> In any case, I think it's impossible to accurately measure difficulty as NewGRFs can influence it in almost any way.
14:37:35 <Alberth> Rubidium: We cannot even agree on how we should play the game (which is good, imho), so a single 'difficulty' concept just won't do. Expanding it a bit is useless due to ambiguity of the concept, as you said. Expanding it a lot is very much work, and not really useful even if it is possible.
14:37:58 <Alberth> Aka: leave it as it is
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14:43:22 <Swallow> In an ideal world I'd merge everything to the advanced settings window and add a preset system like NewGRF presets
14:43:41 <Swallow> With a few pre-supplied presets for easy/medium/hard
14:44:27 <yorick> you mean we don't have newgrf presets currently?
14:45:01 <Swallow> I mean a preset system, similar to newgrf presets, for the advanced settings
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14:47:40 <Ammler> I like that idea, too.
14:54:08 <khizer> hi i need some help regarding smallmap_gui
15:00:39 <yorick> hehe, no toyland servers online
15:01:05 <Doorslammer> Killed the evil at last, yes?
15:01:28 <yorick> only 6,7 % with arctic
15:02:10 <yorick> 8.43% of total amount of clients could be online
15:05:32 <yorick> niceties such as cindini should be forbidden
15:15:59 <petern> I know what it is, but, forbidden?
15:18:27 <Alberth> you cannot start a transport service in it, it would mess up the scene too much
15:19:48 <yorick> even letting it run messes up the scene
15:19:58 <yorick> and flatten the landscape
15:24:43 * yorick just overwrote nice 64*64 testing save with 2048*2048 cindini map
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15:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> what exactly is so special about this cindini map?
15:33:44 <Tefad> hmm indeed. i thought i was in another channel : x
15:37:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> wtf adds ".doc" files in a forum?
15:43:03 <petern> It has some map-bugs too :)
15:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> i never understood what that phrase means
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15:52:44 <Ammler> default real name for chatzilla clients
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17:24:58 <Chrill> Sacro wouldnt know where brianetta is?
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17:32:11 <Rubidium> no, I waited till that number ;)
17:33:49 <TrueBrain> idiotic KDE4 .. more bugs than working features ... :(
17:35:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> i found it basically unuseable, because of all the annoyances
17:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> but that was with KDE 4.0, it hopefully improved since then ;)
17:36:16 <TrueBrain> well ... I have 4.1 running here .. 4.1.1 to be exact ..
17:36:25 <TrueBrain> I can't move widgets I put on the desktop .. for unknown reasons
17:36:42 <TrueBrain> it thinks my screen is smaller than it is, so I have the taskbar somewhere in the middle
17:36:52 <TrueBrain> when you click the wrong button, it does weird stuff
17:36:58 <TrueBrain> and it uses a constant of 10% CPU, even if I don't do anything
17:36:59 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: You need more clocks.
17:37:13 <Prof_Frink> plasma is all about clocks.
17:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> well... i immediately went back to KDE 3 for my desktop, and use a few KDE 4 programs
17:38:05 <Sacro> Chrill: not sure, warum?
17:40:17 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: well, I will install KDE3 again too soon .. just it is too bad, as I like a few things of KDE4 (of the kwin part)
17:40:31 <TrueBrain> but okay, I am already sick of Debian too, so I need to burn a Gentoo LiveCD first :p
17:40:48 <Prof_Frink> Gentoo? Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...
17:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> when's KDE 4.2 due?
17:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> then i might give it another try
17:43:34 <TrueBrain> oh well ... by all :) Is going to take a while to install Gentoo I guess .. by the lack of alternative :p
17:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm fine with suse... i don't know what problems people have
17:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14441 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-05 17:45:23
17:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 6 fixed by arnaullv (6)
17:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 1 changed by sulai (1)
17:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed, 1 changed by alyr (2)
17:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 6 fixed by christian (6)
17:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 fixed by ww9980 (1)
18:09:21 <TrueBrain> wow, KDE3 works so much better ...
18:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... in which config file do settings like the prefered shell go?
18:28:27 <Rubidium> depends on the flavour of Linux I reckon
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18:29:45 <petern> default shell is in /etc/passwd
18:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's unlikely that i can change something outside /home/<user>
18:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... that said it couldn't find me in /etc/passwd
18:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> i should probably talk to the admins...
18:35:51 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: You don't exist.
18:43:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14442 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14406): Typo causing problems in rare cases.
18:45:45 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: no nightly today?>
18:48:13 <frosch123> [20:29] <DorpsGek> CompileFarm: nightly (r14441) completed. <- this time dorpsgek is not to blaim :)
18:48:47 <SmatZ> overlooked that one in the translators commit :)
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18:50:52 <Vikthor> SmatZ: Pýcha předchází pád :p
18:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have not ever heard of a thing called "engliszh"
18:51:54 <ln> Vikthor: Bízšú žowùm vûxelt.
18:52:32 <TrueBrain> anyhow .. I can now connect my HDTV via HDMI to my computer .. now that is useful shit :)
18:52:59 <TrueBrain> and I have 240 GiB of data to move from one PC to the other .... maybe I just shouldn't do it, and boot up the old machine when ever I need it ..
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18:53:15 <TrueBrain> @kick Prof_Frink yes, we will kick you
18:53:15 *** Prof_Frink was kicked by DorpsGek (yes, we will kick you)
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18:53:26 <TrueBrain> some people are so demanding these days
18:53:53 <Prof_Frink> You could at least have rot13d the kick message
18:55:08 <petern> hmm, 2GB of space used...
18:55:23 * petern shall put off getting big drives
18:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> TrueBrain: isn't it faster to just put the whole HD in the new computer?
18:57:45 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: faster, yes; useful? no .. as I would never clean it up and just continue messing it up :)\
18:58:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> oh, i know that problem ;)
18:58:38 <TrueBrain> hmm .. how on linux to get a screen to a secondary monitor .. hmm ...
19:01:29 <TrueBrain> something for an other day .. good night all!
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19:59:16 * frosch123 always liked unary numbers
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20:03:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah... right... i always needed this, and never even knew it :p
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20:07:16 <herojoker> are there any good introductions for getting to know the variety of NewGRFs?
20:08:48 <herojoker> for example a text which describes the most popular ones and perhaps additionally some personal tips etc.
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21:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> herojoker: best you get the grfpack from openttdcoop, there should be a readme in it
21:06:56 <herojoker> the mass of grfs is a bit overwhelming ^^
21:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you could just join a server using newgrfs, they should have a sensible subset of the collection enabled ;)
21:07:55 <herojoker> especially because it's not always direclty visible whether it's a replacer or addon
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