IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-09-10
⏴ go to previous day
00:00:06 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
00:02:24 * SmatZ notes: better not ask stupid question or you may look like you don't know anything :-P
00:03:37 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I am so happy you didn't know me since the start .. boy oh boy, the questions I asked .. :p
00:04:51 <SmatZ> it's fine to ask questions, when you don't know something :)
00:04:52 <SmatZ> but it's bad to ask even when you know that :-D
00:04:55 <SmatZ> but you look quite experienced nowadays ;-)
00:05:01 <SmatZ> TrueBrain, the network-man
00:05:05 <SmatZ> and ssh-man and everything :)
00:05:25 <ln> TrueBrain: what are you trying to achieve by compiling on Darwin?
00:05:59 <TrueBrain> bah, why is there no documentation about Darwin and how to get it to compile sane things :p
00:06:45 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: well, if that is all you remember me for.. :( :p
00:07:31 <SmatZ> of course, there is the humanity-part of you :)
00:07:40 <SmatZ> like dancing, girls, climbing :)
00:07:49 <SmatZ> maybe 'girls' coming first ;)
00:08:10 *** Jerimiah40 has joined #openttd
00:17:54 <SmatZ> hmm there are 98 people there
00:18:00 <SmatZ> 4% of them should be gay
00:18:14 <TrueBrain> please all raise your hands if you are gay
00:18:21 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: and how many of them should be female?
00:18:36 <TrueBrain> I give up on darwin, I let Rubidium figure thatone out :p
00:18:40 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: stats fail there
00:18:43 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
00:18:54 <TrueBrain> welcome [alt]buster
00:19:37 <SmatZ> I think gays play OTTD the same way as other boys do...
00:19:43 <FauxFaux> I thought it was more than 4%, especially out side of christianland^Wthe us.
00:20:57 <SmatZ> maybe there are 4% of gays and 20% of men who don't care...
00:21:20 * SmatZ stops this discussion because he is afraid of being kicked :)
00:21:37 <SmatZ> I would have kicked myself already
00:21:43 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: you will only be kicked by gay people
00:21:47 <glx> no risks Bjarni is not here ;)
00:21:49 <TrueBrain> or the 20% who don't care
00:22:01 <FauxFaux> No, the kicking would be for claiming that, as there're mostly programmers here, it's probably more likely to be 80% 15-30 year old virgins. :p
00:22:18 <TrueBrain> so 80% in here is a virgin
00:22:24 <TrueBrain> all raise hands if you are
00:22:34 <TrueBrain> (well, that per definition only gives a max of 10%, as the rest is never alive)
00:22:51 <FauxFaux> (Cunningly avoiding the question)
00:22:52 <TrueBrain> I wonder why this channel as around 100 people for ages now
00:23:06 <TrueBrain> eekee: so you are, thank you for that answer
00:23:11 <FauxFaux> It happens in lots of channels.
00:23:23 <TrueBrain> (really, if you need to ask .. you are one)
00:23:36 <TrueBrain> it is like: do you drive a car? Which one?
00:23:55 <TrueBrain> I think I should get some sleep or something .. hmm ..
00:23:56 <SmatZ> eekee: never had penis in a vagina/anus of another human/animal (except mother during birth)
00:24:13 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: LOL!!! That .. kind of covers most of it :p
00:24:25 <TrueBrain> just I would have put mouth there too
00:24:25 <eekee> I duno. Certain things that aren't technically sex can be pretty damn amazing. :þ
00:24:27 <FauxFaux> Lies, other oraphices count too. *runs*
00:24:38 <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: GO TO BED
00:24:42 <eekee> see, there is disagreement :D
00:24:54 <FauxFaux> But I don't have to be at work for literally 6 and a half hours!
00:24:59 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
00:25:04 <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: so just stay up
00:25:07 <FauxFaux> Heads, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes.
00:25:12 <TrueBrain> I tried that once ... was kind of dangerous
00:25:21 <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: there are no holes in shoulders
00:25:28 <TrueBrain> well, not without a gun anyway
00:25:38 <SmatZ> :-D @ TrueBrain & glx :)
00:25:40 <FauxFaux> <6h a night for a couple of weeks is roughly the same effect.
00:25:52 <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: I am doing that for 3 months now
00:25:58 <TrueBrain> I just notice I have a hard time concentrating
00:26:01 <el_En> simpler definition: "had the thing inside something that's alive"
00:26:03 <TrueBrain> but .. who notice that?
00:26:24 <SmatZ> [02:25:12] <TrueBrain> I tried that once ... was kind of dangerous <= are you talking about that "animal" part?
00:26:31 <TrueBrain> el_En: 'the thing'? The hand that is walking without body?
00:26:39 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: no, about the not sleeping and going to work
00:26:51 <TrueBrain> trying to drive a car after being up for 48 hours is ..
00:27:03 <TrueBrain> you tend to miss ... a few km of road now and then ..
00:27:15 <TrueBrain> (one moment that truck is 4 km away ... next moment you are right behind it)
00:27:48 <TrueBrain> well, at least I then know I am a good driver ... my eyes were open while sleeping, and I woke up as I needed to change lanes :p
00:28:01 <TrueBrain> (that requires head movement, that I couldn't do while sleeping, I tihnk .. :p)
00:28:39 <TrueBrain> nah, I can make a joke of that, but it was not one of my proudest moments .. and I truly hope you guys never have such .. problem :)
00:28:59 <SmatZ> well I had and I survived :-)
00:29:31 <SmatZ> I was going behind those red lights of the car before me
00:29:41 <eekee> I have regular trouble sleeping. I don't have to drive regularly though
00:30:04 <SmatZ> later I discovered I am at absolutely different place I wanted to be
00:30:05 <eekee> oh losing yourself in the tail-lights of the car in front is normal, I think
00:30:19 <SmatZ> I was just going behind him, no metter where he drove
00:30:38 <eekee> one of my friends says one day he's going to accidentally kill himself by following a suicidal driver off a cliff
00:30:49 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: who wrote that ... if you have no clue where to go in a foreign city, follow the person in front of you
00:30:54 <TrueBrain> mostly works for me
00:31:15 <TrueBrain> (if I have no clue where to go, I truly follow to car in front of me .. mostly it turns out okay)
00:31:24 <TrueBrain> sometimes I am in some sub-urb .. but okay :p
00:31:26 <eekee> I did that in Brighton once. Found several shortcuts then found myself in a dead end
00:31:30 <TrueBrain> eekee: hehe, nice motto ;)
00:31:35 <el_En> sounds like everyone on this channel should have their driving licenses suspended.
00:31:56 <TrueBrain> I once drove in a new part of a town, following the car in front of me
00:32:14 <TrueBrain> he: "do you know wher eI can find blabla?"
00:32:22 <TrueBrain> I: "haha, I was hoping you knew!"
00:32:33 <TrueBrain> the tactic kind of fails if the person in front of you is lost too :p
00:32:34 <SmatZ> anyway, nn... I want to be up when the large hadron collider colapses :)
00:32:43 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: well, I hope to speak to you tomorrow
00:32:51 <TrueBrain> and that we didn't all disapeared in some black hole
00:32:55 <eekee> The idea of following fandom cars crops up in Douglass Adams The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul, where one of the leading characters finds that he rarely ends up where he wants to be but often where he needs to be
00:32:55 <TrueBrain> if we do, I suggest to look to your left
00:33:01 <TrueBrain> I read the view is marvelous!
00:33:09 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
00:33:17 <TrueBrain> eekee: Douglas, yes, he wrote that :) Tnx!
00:33:26 <TrueBrain> I knew it had to be him or HG Wells
00:33:31 <TrueBrain> but the latter most likely never had a car
00:33:34 <TrueBrain> so .. well .. stupid of me :p
00:34:12 <TrueBrain> I tihnk I should read THHGTG again soon ..
00:34:45 <TrueBrain> "I appoligies for the inconvenience"
00:35:11 <TrueBrain> "I feel so depressed"
00:35:39 <TrueBrain> it really sucks Adams died ...
00:36:07 <eekee> yeah. I think it might have been preventable too
00:37:57 <TrueBrain> CTRL+TAB doesn't do what I expect it to do in Firefox 3.1 :(
00:39:28 <eekee> There's an inherited condition where the connective tissue is very weak. People affected tend to be very tall, and to have their sternum angle outwards, so their chest has a point at the base of the sternum. Most of the body is ok with this condition, but the aorta slowly stretches until it bursts around the age of 40-45, unless reinforced
00:40:30 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
00:40:32 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
01:08:11 <eekee> is there an option to allow crossing tunnels?
01:21:32 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
01:22:54 *** Jerimiah40 has joined #openttd
02:01:01 *** Sacro__ has joined #openttd
02:11:37 <Belugas> Pikkaa, if i'm not too blind, id' say that during callback 17, use parent scope, access town var 80 and it will be the same as the industry counterpart
02:11:58 <Belugas> if that can make sens...
02:19:06 <Phantasm> Belugas: How is the fixing going on?
02:23:40 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
02:23:42 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
02:23:42 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
02:24:16 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
02:24:53 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
02:25:16 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
03:05:27 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
03:05:29 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
03:07:17 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex
03:07:19 <Pikkaa> erm, yeah belugas. but that still doesn't help with houses. :)
03:31:41 *** Sacro__ has joined #openttd
04:07:28 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
04:07:31 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
04:25:01 *** Singaporekid has joined #openttd
05:09:18 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
05:44:41 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
06:17:30 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
06:25:36 *** Jerimiah40 has joined #openttd
06:28:43 *** Sir-Bob has joined #openttd
06:40:49 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
06:47:28 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
07:00:38 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
07:00:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Celestar
07:05:02 <Celestar> I currently am in a state where I hate my work
07:05:31 <Celestar> I've been working 60-70 hours a week since start of August without basically having a single day off, including weekends
07:06:24 <Celestar> (read: underpaid and overworked slave)
07:06:41 <Forked> crazy germans.. stuff like that is just not allowed in Norway
07:06:50 <Celestar> Forked: neither is it allowed here
07:07:04 <Forked> "but there is no one else" ?
07:07:50 <Rubidium> Celestar: be happy you're not working at Stanford
07:08:03 <Rubidium> there it's standard to work 14 hours a day, 7 days a week
07:08:24 <Celestar> my Prof just was there for a month and said they work not much more than we do :-)
07:08:37 <Celestar> Rubidium: working 14/7 is just plain inefficient.
07:09:33 <Celestar> there's a reason why PhD stands for Permanent Head Damage
07:10:07 <Forked> Celestar: if no one cares, stop working more than 8/5 .. and see if they start caring :p
07:10:38 <Celestar> I'm considering taking 4 weeks of vacation from the end of this month
07:10:51 <Celestar> I still vacation left from 2007 :S
07:13:10 * Celestar has 37 days of "shore leave" remaining for 2008 :P
07:18:36 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
07:26:52 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
07:27:42 <Forked> well use it fast.. the world is ending :)
07:28:39 *** Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggs-work
07:28:46 <Forked> you know.. WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!11one
07:28:49 <eekee> my nephew worked on coils for the LHC. I'd forgotten about it
07:29:24 <Celestar> he's a murderer then </sarcasm>
07:29:49 <Celestar> why are people always shitting their pants when it comes to science
07:30:50 <eekee> because they believe what they hear from paranoid idiots
07:30:54 * SpComb is failing to view the webcast
07:32:55 * Celestar is failing to concentrate on work
07:33:42 <eekee> honestly it's not like science is without failings, but some people take those failings and blow them up to massive issues regardless of whether anything better exists, and then other people hear the unbalanced issue and start thinking they may have a point.
07:33:55 * peter1138 is failing to get dressed to go to work.
07:34:15 <Celestar> peter1138: wanna help with cargodest (=
07:34:22 <Celestar> instead of getting dressed I mean
07:34:25 * eekee is failing to stay away from his mad plan to take over the world
07:35:11 <Celestar> why do you want to take over the world?
07:35:25 <eekee> coz the current operating systems are all crap :D
07:35:25 <Celestar> it just sucks. Find yourself a planet that is actually worth taking over....
07:35:48 <eekee> oh now you're talking, but taking over the world would make leaving it so much easier
07:36:03 <Celestar> That much is certain
07:36:22 <Celestar> We could actually spend money onto sensible things instead of finding new ways to kill one another
07:37:02 *** Skiddles has joined #openttd
07:38:11 <Forked> nah, they are only sending the beam one way at the time
07:38:29 <nckomodo> yeah I know, it'll be awhile before they smash it together
07:41:01 <nckomodo> what will be absolutely hilarious is if they find nothing new
07:41:24 <nckomodo> no higgs boson, nothing they havent seen before
07:42:05 <SpComb> they'll make something up
07:42:42 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
07:47:27 * Celestar wonders how inexpensive the LHC actually is
07:48:00 <planetmaker> Good morning to the last day on Earth :P
07:48:50 <Celestar> planetmaker: well. it's around 2.5 billion $, and about 10 000 scientists work on it. That's 250.000$ per scientist. This is not much more than the average PhD doing experiments has in his lab at our department.
07:49:45 <planetmaker> well... yeah. Though it's nevertheless rather the high end budget alloted to PhDs :)
07:51:20 <Celestar> well, if the world would end today it had a good thing. I could stop making this presentation right now .P
07:52:00 <planetmaker> Indeed quite true here, too :)
07:54:07 <Celestar> BOOM BOOM BOOM please
07:54:24 <Celestar> or make a time-space disruption which moves the date back to Aug 1st, :P
07:55:56 <blathijs> Was this actually the second time they're turning it on, or the first?
07:55:58 * Rubidium wonders why today is so hyped?
07:56:08 <Celestar> I'm trying not o work
07:56:44 <Rubidium> they're not even running high energy experiments yes
07:57:12 <Rubidium> s/yes/yet/ (stupid split keyboards)
07:58:07 *** Aylomen has joined #openttd
07:59:30 <Forked> I don't understand it therefor we are all doomed!!11 DOOOMEEED
08:00:34 <Noldo> Rubidium: the first beam day apparently
08:01:50 <Noldo> didn't even run a complete lap yet
08:01:54 *** |Bastiaan| has joined #openttd
08:03:04 <Celestar> it exited the collider before completing a lap? We're doomed
08:04:33 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
08:05:41 <peter1138> Needs a bit of work.
08:07:34 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
08:07:49 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
08:09:17 <peter1138> Hmm, Phun could do with a grid, and snap to grid.
08:09:30 <peter1138> And possibly a measurement tool, and a way to input precise sizes...
08:09:51 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe that would be too CADish...
08:13:54 *** Jerimiah40 has joined #openttd
08:14:42 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttd
08:23:19 <TrueBrain> morning lovely people
08:23:36 <Forked> no greet for me eh? =\
08:25:10 <TrueBrain> so how are you doing? :)
08:26:33 <Forked> sleepy.. sort of late dinner last night. I was suppose to have the pancakes ready when the gf came home f..wait, do you actually care? :p
08:26:55 <TrueBrain> kind of. It does suprise me you have a gf ;)
08:28:31 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
08:28:44 <Forked> but then again she is one of a kind =p she use fluxbox as a window manager
08:30:02 <Celestar> mine still uses ... KDE
08:30:20 <Celestar> but I'm using 4.1 (=
08:30:33 <Forked> but linux is still a server OS for me
08:30:38 <Celestar> Forked: yeah I need KDE to fire up 20 terminals and a browser :P
08:30:51 <Celestar> oh and an openttd window sometimes :P
08:31:28 <Celestar> Forked: well, I do a lot of cargodest devving/debugging with -vnull (=
08:33:11 <Celestar> unless I do something with the GUI
08:33:38 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
08:33:39 * Celestar notices that peter1138 still didn't say if he will help a bit with cargodest (=
08:35:05 <TrueBrain> [com]buster: I am sure you are a nice guy, but for the past 12 hours you have more join/leaves then any of us talked ...
08:35:28 <TrueBrain> please get your connection stable, or please leave this channel (and come back when you have something to talk about :))
08:35:43 <TrueBrain> (same goes for Jerimiah40 btw, but he is currently reconnecting :p)
08:51:10 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
08:51:12 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
08:57:20 <TrueBrain> hmm .. my HD just crashed and didn't want to reboot until after a big boink on his head
08:58:23 <Rubidium> sounds like my HDD that didn't want to spin up quickly enough so it timed out at booting
08:58:46 <Rubidium> you had to quickly turn the computer on and off so it was still spinning a bit so it didn't time out
09:00:32 <TrueBrain> this is just an ordinary head-crash
09:00:42 <TrueBrain> if it repeats itself, I need to make a clone of this disk soon :)
09:03:09 <TrueBrain> oh, btw, WE ARE STILL ALIVE!
09:03:56 * TrueBrain gives Celestar a hug
09:04:56 * murray stretches and pats his backup system
09:07:10 <Forked> reminds me.. my raid5 has 3 of 4 drives and has been like that for two weeks
09:07:17 <Forked> maybe I should stuff in the replacement disk I got yesterday
09:13:47 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
09:13:49 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
09:16:33 <peter1138> TrueBrain incites the Portal song...
09:21:48 <TrueBrain> @kban [com]buster Please come back when your connection is stable
09:21:48 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: [com] is not in #openttd.
09:21:56 <TrueBrain> @kban "[com]buster" Please come back when your connection is stable
09:21:56 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl
09:21:57 *** [com]buster was kicked by DorpsGek (Please come back when your connection is stable)
09:22:17 <TrueBrain> sorry, but that can be so freaking annoying ... :(
09:23:29 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I heard that sound again, of a HD head crashing ..
09:23:56 <TrueBrain> disk is no longer allowing access ...
09:24:08 <TrueBrain> so .. new HD, and hoping 'dd' is going to do his job ;)
09:24:28 <TrueBrain> (and that it doesn't crash while doing the 'dd', else it is going to be a long long day :p)
09:24:50 <TrueBrain> hurry is not what will help me
09:25:39 <murray> is there a feature to let hdd's rest sometimes when they're not much used?
09:25:50 <murray> i've heard one of mine reboot while the pc is running and everything
09:25:58 <murray> quite a lot of times now recently
09:26:06 <TrueBrain> a HD can go into suspend, yes
09:26:19 <TrueBrain> but it should never ever do when it is being used
09:26:29 <TrueBrain> (like .. the HD which is for your main OS :p)
09:26:41 <murray> well, yeah it wasn't in use at the time
09:27:29 <murray> oh btw TrueBrain, thanks for your svn hooks-tips, it works great :)
09:27:41 <TrueBrain> default redbook stuff
09:28:48 <TrueBrain> okay, I should now really be shutting down and analyzing my HD problem .. be back in a few hours :p
09:32:04 <sulai> I'm helping translating for the german language
09:32:41 <sulai> now, {RAW_STRING} should always be {STRING} in any other file than english.txt, right?
09:33:29 <sulai> What about STR_JUST_RAW_STRING, which is {RAW_STRING} in english... should this be {STRING}, too?
09:36:30 <guru3_> does everyone remember that php landscape thing i wrote? then how i rewrote it in python? i've ported it into c++ now
09:36:34 <guru3_> performance keeps going up
09:36:35 *** guru3_ is now known as guru3
09:37:01 <guru3> now i need to get it to compile on os x
09:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause> sulai: yes. ALL occurances of RAW_STRING are to be replaced by STRING
10:03:57 <sulai> so, "Fahrstraensignal" fits best!
10:04:31 <sulai> Eddi|zuHause: ~80 new strings have been commited to trunk yesterday
10:07:13 <Celestar> EVERY signal is a Fahrstraßensignal.
10:07:18 <Celestar> except those used for shunting :P
10:07:48 <sulai> Celestar we thought about using "Fahrstraensignal" as translation for the PBS signals
10:07:50 <Ammler> Fahrstrasse sounds silly
10:08:15 <Celestar> Ammler: it's the correct technical term, however.
10:08:25 <Celestar> sulai: that would be reasonable.
10:09:01 <Ammler> Celestar: btw, your optimizing for the dest patch rocks
10:09:15 <Ammler> Rob can now join the dev server again and play
10:10:50 <peter1138> fahrstraßensignal = fahrstraßensignal
10:10:59 <peter1138> Fahrstraßensignal = Road signal
10:11:10 <peter1138> Silly Google translator, or silly German...
10:11:21 <Celestar> Road signal is not a Fahrstraßensignal
10:11:25 <Celestar> what's a road signal anyway?
10:11:30 <sulai> road signal is a "ampel"
10:11:38 <peter1138> That's what Google says :)
10:11:39 <Celestar> sulai: no, that's a traffic light.
10:15:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i really hope for that traffic light that they drive on left side :p
10:22:30 * peter1138 ponders making a GPL graphics replacement set...
10:23:07 <Celestar> don't we have that with OpenGFX?
10:23:53 <peter1138> They're arguing about license now.
10:24:08 <peter1138> You'd think that would've been sorted before any drawing...
10:24:09 <Forked> Would it not have been better to clear that before you started? :)
10:24:13 <Noldo> peter1138: and you are feeling abit like you told them so
10:24:26 <peter1138> Yeah, but I don't think I did, heh...
10:24:44 <Noldo> peter1138: I think you did, at least someone did
10:25:57 <peter1138> Well, back in February :)
10:26:48 <peter1138> Well, in that case...
10:26:54 <peter1138> I did tell them so... ;)
10:27:57 * peter1138 ponders posting that quote in the new thread.
10:28:37 <Noldo> propably not a good idea
10:28:48 <peter1138> Don't worry, I pointed out that you reminded me.
10:29:40 <peter1138> Oh, alright then :o
10:30:20 <Noldo> peter1138: btw check what zephyris said then about the license of graphics he had drawn
10:32:55 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
10:42:44 <Noldo> "Very true, I have, from the start, stated that my graphics can be used under GPL, CC or similar licences."
10:46:23 *** grumbel has joined #openttd
10:47:48 <planetmaker> Interesting. And now it seems to be not good enough anymore :)
10:49:22 <Celestar> I think GPL is not the right thing to use
10:50:26 <Noldo> CC share alike - attribution 3.0 would be dsfg free and better for graphics than gpl
10:50:52 <FauxFaux> CC SA-A is dsfg free? You sure?
10:50:53 <Ammler> planetmaker: in the mood to update newgrf gui
10:51:08 <Noldo> FauxFaux: 3.0 is, just checked it earlier
10:51:15 <planetmaker> hm... right now is quite bad wrt time...
10:51:56 <Ammler> I checked it self, but it is definitly to complicated for me :-)
10:52:13 <planetmaker> I think we should bug peter1138 that the new newgrf win is a very nice idea & patch :P
10:52:27 <Ammler> hmm, did you read his commnet?
10:52:41 <Ammler> last post in the thread
10:52:45 <planetmaker> or too long ago :)
10:54:22 <Ammler> sorting of the list for path view is wrong...
10:54:39 <planetmaker> ah, that one. Yes, I read it :)
10:56:19 <planetmaker> he, but looks like the cards are dealt back well at the patch maintainer(s) :)
11:09:46 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
11:19:57 *** reldred|gone is now known as reldred|work
11:26:25 *** Progman has joined #openttd
11:28:35 <Ammler> devs should maybe telll the OpenGFX'er that they should accept GPL, if they want distributed it with OpenTTD, else it will be complicated, not?
11:30:01 <Noldo> GPL isn't good for graphics because of source distribution requirement
11:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see a huge problem there...
11:33:34 <Ammler> Noldo: isn't that the point, they should also publish the graphic sources, so they can be reused later...
11:35:21 <peter1138> In my opinion, to be distributed with OpenTTD, it must be GPL.
11:35:39 <peter1138> But that is not the opinion of all devs.
11:36:04 <peter1138> To be distributed alongside OpenTTD, it can be any free license, heh...
11:36:34 <peter1138> Silly ebay, giving me a list of tractors for sale...
11:37:53 <Ammler> Noldo: if they want to be part of OpenTTD, they have to, imo.
11:38:33 *** reldred|work is now known as reldred|gone
11:39:11 <Noldo> well, CC-NC-whatever a major step forward from the current situation even if it won't be distributed with OpenTTD
11:39:43 <ln> Noldo: major useless step forward
11:40:03 <Noldo> ln: better that nothing
11:40:43 <Noldo> Ammler: what kind of "have to" is that?
11:40:47 <Ammler> if they don't make it GPL, they should remove the "Open" from the name ;-)
11:41:18 <Ammler> and replace it with FreeGFX...
11:41:32 <ln> Ammler: GPL is not open, it's free.
11:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause> GPL has nothing to do with free
11:42:10 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: what kind of free is that
11:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> GPL allows you to charge money
11:42:16 <dih> does sourceforge not offer a compile farm?
11:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. it's not free (as in beer)
11:42:38 <Ammler> ln: please define "open" and "free"
11:42:41 <dih> but do they not have a mac server there to compile mac builds on?
11:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's open (as in free speech)
11:43:07 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: interesting way of seeing the distinction
11:43:42 <Noldo> I have thought Open Source means you can read the source and study it not neccessarily anything else
11:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, everybody you ask will have a different opinion of what "open" and "free" means
11:44:18 <ln> Ammler: as defined by FSF. (which is not necessarily what I agree with, but relevant with GPL)
11:44:34 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: that is so true
11:44:40 <peter1138> dih, "One example of a compile farm was the service provided by SourceForge until 2006."
11:44:50 <peter1138> Of course, I'm assuming wikipedia is correct ;)
11:45:07 <dih> they dont do that anymore?
11:45:22 <Noldo> but personaly CC-NC what ever is basically just freeware and not free software
11:45:55 <dih> if opengfx should be part of openttd, it should go under gpl
11:45:59 <Ammler> ln: well, that doesn't help me understanding "your view", so I just disagree with you :-)
11:46:02 <dih> as the entire openttd project is under gpl
11:46:11 * peter1138 ponders a 22cm fan to cool his PC.
11:46:35 <dih> peter1138: just attach a vacuum cleaner to the cpu's heat sink :-D
11:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Noldo: yes, free as in beer, and not when you come with a tanker truck to get it.
11:48:05 <peter1138> Hmm, 1500W ATX PSU...
11:48:16 <Noldo> peter1138: btw what is the situation with including parts of boost?
11:48:38 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the GPL does not forbid to put an extra package containing non-GPL data on the same "medium"
11:48:42 <ln> Ammler: free is free as in speech.
11:49:26 <Ammler> well, you read Eddi|zuHause...
11:50:34 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: that is why I don't share peter's and dih's GPL-only view
11:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> GPL with pictures is hard to enforce, i think. because you cannot prove that the creator of the picture did not work directly on the (png, pcx, whatever) file
11:51:27 <peter1138> You can with GRF ;p
11:51:46 <Noldo> peter1138: mmm, how exactly?
11:52:30 <Ammler> Noldo: most important imo is, that you can reuse the sprites without asking the author for permission.
11:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: the GRF chain exactly ends at the pcx that gets spit out by grfcodec
11:52:48 <dih> why do people want _their_ support to a project treated a special way?
11:52:49 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: couldn't agree more, also the the source requirement is bit redundant because if you can view the media file you can do most of the edits you need
11:53:05 <dih> it's not about what _they_ do, it's about the project they want to support
11:53:09 *** Celestar has joined #openttd
11:53:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Celestar
11:53:16 <Noldo> dih: that is something I agree with
11:53:59 <dih> then give OpenGFX to OpenTTD and let OpenTTD decide how to andle it as THEIRS*
11:54:02 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, but nobody worked directly on that file, as you've only just created it.
11:54:11 <dih> *Theirs = the Projects, namely OpenTTD
11:55:26 <Noldo> dih: that still doesn't mean GPL-only is the only way to go
11:55:48 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but if you count grfcodec like a compression program (zip, rar, ...), then the pcx file someone potentially modified and the grf file are equivalent concerning their "source"-dness
11:56:26 <dih> Noldo: no - but it saves all the authors their breath, and shut up about what THEY want with THEIR work
11:56:26 <Celestar> peter1138: conferences, presentations, final reports .. the full blast
11:57:10 <Celestar> gotta LOVE Deutsche Bahn. 2 people, Munich-Colonge and back (specific trains). 2nd Class: 427 EUR, 1st Class: 290 EUR
11:57:53 <Celestar> Noldo: apparently, 2nd Class is basically booked out, 1st class almost empty
11:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the only way you can potentially handle a graphics-"source" is if you directly define what kind of image editing tool has to be used (similar to chosing a programming language and a code style)
11:59:43 <peter1138> Hmm, 1024 circles in a confined space... I need a faster PC :(
11:59:57 <dih> all you self centered gfx authors suck!
12:00:44 <dih> if you just gave your work to the project, you would not have to worry about the license
12:01:14 <dih> if you just dropped your own say in what you once strived to give to a project
12:01:30 <dih> in what was supposed to be OpenGFX
12:02:02 <dih> in what was aimed at making the project called OpenTTD free from the need of copyrighted graphic files
12:02:50 <hylje> the existence of 'self' in general is detrimentar to communities in general
12:03:06 <hylje> small amount of it, such as credits, might be useful
12:03:29 <Rubidium> adding credits isn't he hardest thing to do
12:03:37 <dih> yes - granted, add a line for each author in the readme or something
12:04:10 <planetmaker> It wouldn't even hurt to say which grf author worked on which
12:04:13 <dih> but all this "i dont want x to happen with MY work"
12:04:14 <Rubidium> even add a credits or authors section to *.obg and show that in the "about window"
12:04:47 <hylje> pretentiousness is something that decent artists seem to build
12:04:54 <hylje> good artists get away with it
12:05:26 <planetmaker> Would it be a problem to have the grfs in a CC share alike license which allows free distribution and modification given that the original artists name is credited? I fail to see anything which objects this...
12:05:28 <hylje> but even then it's damaging for any community efforts
12:06:14 <Ammler> planetmaker: you mean every sprite?
12:06:29 <planetmaker> well... if necessary.
12:06:32 <Ammler> there will be only 5 grfs left :-)
12:07:25 <Noldo> giving credit on sprite by sprite basis might help someone feel better, but licence is the real issue
12:08:03 <planetmaker> It has to be a license which allows free distribution and alteration w/o notice of the original artist.
12:08:31 <Brianetta> Creative Commons Share-Alike (possibly with attribution)
12:08:44 <planetmaker> Brianetta: :) yeah
12:08:47 <Brianetta> without no-derivs or non-commercial
12:09:06 <Noldo> I would like that (version 3.0 that is )
12:09:50 <dih> and if they do manage to push this through somehow i will refuse to use OpenGFX
12:10:14 <dih> we can remove OpenGFX from the grfpack with the crap they are doing :-D
12:10:22 <dih> or infact we might even HAVE to :-D
12:10:40 <Ammler> declined, we do not care that much about those licence things...
12:10:57 <eekee> why on earth might you have to?
12:11:00 <Ammler> as nobody does understand it anyway...
12:11:12 <hylje> nobody should care either
12:11:27 <dih> because it's a pile of crap
12:11:35 <hylje> because as of now the authors are getting a lot more than they possibly deserve
12:11:37 <Ammler> I try to respect the authors wishes...
12:11:39 <dih> any grf author, can do what they like i dont give shit
12:11:39 <Rubidium> does anyone actually know what the license is of the current opengfx *new*grfs
12:11:55 <dih> Rubidium: afaik that has never been discussed
12:12:20 <dih> but as OpenGFX was supposed to have such a high aim
12:12:27 <dih> basically 'freeing' OpenTTD
12:12:36 <Rubidium> so you are distributing something with unknown license?
12:12:37 <dih> i do care a bunch what they try to do
12:12:51 <dih> Rubidium: openttdcoop is distributing a bunch of stuff
12:13:08 <dih> sadly, way too much where those in charge dont care
12:13:28 <planetmaker> [14:12] <Rubidium> so you are distributing something with unknown license? <--- sort of :S
12:14:04 <planetmaker> Though in the OpenGFX thread was stated, as also peter cited there, that it's made under GPL, CC or something like that.
12:14:28 <Noldo> planetmaker: that was just Zephyris about his own work
12:14:38 <Noldo> and he might have changed his mind
12:14:47 <planetmaker> well. Can he revoke?
12:14:56 <planetmaker> Once released under CC or GPL?
12:15:12 <eekee> I don't think the author can revoke rights after somehting is distributed
12:15:17 <Rubidium> he can relicense it, but AFAIK anything distributed under GPL stays GPL
12:15:27 <planetmaker> ^^ my understanding. Yes.
12:15:34 <Celestar> my understanding as well
12:15:43 <Celestar> that's the main diff to the BSDL, isn't it?
12:15:43 <Noldo> GPL would needs a version and the licence files should be distributed with everything
12:16:29 * Celestar needs a particle gun
12:16:44 * Forked needs a month off work
12:16:49 <peter1138> Noldo, yeah, I don't think that statement would hold up in court ;)
12:17:37 <Noldo> peter1138: my thoughs exactly
12:18:53 <Noldo> though is someone was to take zephyris' work and distribute properly under GPL... well propably not a good idea
12:20:14 <Noldo> anyway somehow I still hope that the opengfx artists could be reasoned with
12:20:17 <peter1138> That was more like a statement of intent. It is not statement of license. :)
12:20:40 <peter1138> When I win the lottery, I'll solve it all ;)
12:21:01 <Forked> do you play the lottery?
12:21:08 <peter1138> One thing I don't get is why they did it in 8bpp, but never mind.
12:21:15 <peter1138> Forked, sometimes, rarely.
12:21:32 <dih> what do the devs actually think of that license discussion on OpenGFX
12:21:43 <dih> what would you guys want? (WWYGW)
12:24:05 <peter1138> I think it's amusing that they didn't decide this beforehand.
12:24:17 <peter1138> Argh, wiki.openttd.org does not contain the company's internal wiki :o
12:24:50 <peter1138> As in the company I work for.
12:25:39 <peter1138> As in I loaded up the wrong URL.
12:27:25 <eekee> oh :D That's my kind of mistake :þ
12:27:49 <peter1138> Right, for the purposes of 'half a rack', how many U is the average rack...
12:28:54 <peter1138> I think I'll go with 20U, to allow cabling space.
12:29:14 <dih> 20 U is quite big already
12:29:26 <peter1138> I need to shuffle stuff around to free up a contiguous 20U space.
12:29:28 <dih> all you need is decently pachted patch pannels
12:30:05 <dih> i.e. 24 port at front and 24 port at rear patched to eachother
12:30:10 <peter1138> There must be some kind of algorithm for this :)
12:30:37 <Noldo> peter1138: isn't it basically a backbag problem?
12:30:59 <Noldo> I'd go for the greedy algorithm
12:34:46 *** lobster_MB has joined #openttd
12:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> what is "commercial use" in the definition of the CC license?
12:37:24 <Celestar> what do you need half a rack for? (=
12:38:45 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: the example is basically that you can't charge money for redistributing
12:38:56 <eekee> erm, if you refuse commercial use in a grf bundled with ottd, that bundle couldn't be shipped on CD for a small fee, etc etc
12:39:52 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: "You may not exercise any of the rights granted to You in Section 3 above in any manner that is primarily intended for or directed toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation. "
12:41:01 <Celestar> I'm tried and bored.
12:41:07 <Noldo> though that is missing SA too
12:41:10 <ln> can never be included in any Linux distribution
12:41:34 <Noldo> ln: well, ubuntu has all kinds of stuff
12:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a pretty strict requirement
12:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say nc should be out of the question for an "open" gfx
12:43:26 <peter1138> Celestar, customer wants it, for... you know, servers...
12:44:14 <peter1138> Although I appear to have lost 4U somewhere :o
12:46:32 *** Ridayah has joined #openttd
12:56:45 <Celestar> peter1138: why not buying a proper 42U thing in the first place?
13:02:13 <Brianetta> peter1138 writes cool patches.
13:02:23 <Brianetta> Colour by group. Drive-it-yourself.
13:06:08 <Brianetta> [13:41] <Celestar> I'm tried and bored.
13:11:48 <SpComb> /lastlog shows it from 15.5 hours ago and 5.5 hours ago
13:11:48 *** Clinton has joined #openttd
13:12:10 <Clinton> Are there any scenarios for openttd that already have a rail network set up?
13:12:13 <planetmaker> probably gravitation redshift of information due to a new black hole caused this information arrive at my place late :P
13:12:17 <Clinton> in particular, real world scenarios?
13:14:40 <planetmaker> Clinton: any savegame you find could act as a scenario.
13:15:12 <Clinton> planetmaker: is there any place where there's some that people have based on real world networks?
13:15:16 <planetmaker> but there are little "real world" maps out there, less with built tracks.
13:15:32 <planetmaker> Probably, but I don't know where :P
13:29:25 <TrueBrain> took a while to sync 160 GiB :p (and of course when the new volume is 500 GiB, you need to do some moving ;))
13:31:36 <TrueBrain> 'dd' is slow when you use bs=1 :p
13:31:41 <TrueBrain> bs=1024 makes it slightly more .. useful :)
13:32:09 * eekee typically uses bs=1048576
13:32:26 * blathijs typically uses 4096K or something
13:32:43 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: any reason to use bs=1 ? to slow things down? :)
13:32:50 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: default ... :(
13:33:06 <TrueBrain> and I was wondering why my HD was going all crazy and it was so darn slow :p
13:34:56 <SmatZ> I wonder the OS doesnt' apply any caching
13:35:14 <SmatZ> sh.... after lunch, I can't fit in my trousers
13:37:17 <peter1138> Celestar, what do you mean?
13:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> a block size less than the drive's block size is hardly ever useful
13:41:42 *** mucht_work has joined #openttd
13:42:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i usually use something like 1024K (=1M)
13:47:12 <FauxFaux> You'd've thought there'd be a way to do it without copying the data into and out of user mode by now.
13:50:03 * Belugas wonders if peter1138 can come up with a sentence containing as many contractions with the same number of words as the last sentence...
14:05:47 *** Swallow has joined #openttd
14:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know a "Mister T"
14:16:44 <Belugas> i know one Mister Freeze
14:17:01 *** LA[lord] has joined #openttd
14:20:50 <Roujin> Born_Acorn, are you there? Could you unlock the "Roadmap" page on the wiki? (or anyone else for that matter?)
14:22:43 <Roujin> I think there should be a link to "New Features Since 0.6.0" there, below "New Features Since 0.5.0"
14:27:10 <glx> Roujin: this page is protected for a good reason
14:28:04 *** LA[lord] is now known as LA
14:29:22 <Roujin> I understand. Does someone who may edit it add the link to "New Features Since 0.6.0"? I created the page to make a list of the stuff that has been added to trunk since the latest stable
14:30:18 <Roujin> As there's also the link to "new features since 0.5.0" there, i reckon it could be linked there as well
14:33:05 <Brianetta> Improved Breakdowns ++
14:33:53 <peter1138> Bah, my lights keep dimming.
14:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* leave time when pressing "ctrl,q", so it does not get interpreted as "ctrl+q"
14:36:05 <Progman> Roujin: the talk page isn't locked, is it?
14:36:45 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, or use a sensible keyboard layout that doesn't do that.
14:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: what does that have to do with layout?
14:37:28 <peter1138> Hmm, well, depends what ctrl on its own was meant to do.
14:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ctrl on its own enables "shortcut" keys to links on a webpage
14:38:08 <Roujin> i've written my request on the talk page on 23rd of August, but nobody has taken notice of it until now - so I'm repeating it here ;)
14:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and q then selects the appropriate link
14:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause> in this case, the "quote" button in the post edit window
14:38:43 <peter1138> Ctrl on its own is usually ignored :o
14:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause> not in konqueror ;)
14:39:25 <peter1138> Typical of KDE to implement non-standard behaviour ;p
14:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> likewise, "ctrl,b" clicks on the "bold" button and stuff... it's actually quite useful
14:40:45 <Brianetta> Celestar, peter1138: Would reducing station catchment area be an effective way of reducing passenger numbers with cargodest?
14:41:49 <peter1138> I want to test it without newhouses.
14:43:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it's still too large without newhouses, imho
14:45:32 *** Dr_Jekyll has joined #openttd
14:47:03 <eekee> smaller cachement area would go well with cargodest imho
14:47:34 *** Dr_Jekyll has joined #openttd
14:47:52 *** Dr_Jekyll has joined #openttd
14:48:27 *** Dr_Jekyll has joined #openttd
14:48:47 <TrueBrain> Dr_Jekyll: in or out, make up our mind
14:49:00 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
14:49:09 *** TrueBrain sets mode: -b *!~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl
14:49:23 *** TrueBrain sets mode: -o TrueBrain
14:53:21 <Dr_Jekyll> TrueBrain what you're trying to tell me? (i don't understand, not a native speaker)
14:54:09 <Belugas> he means that your repetitive attemps of connections are boring to watch
14:54:14 <Belugas> we wonder what the hell you
14:54:28 *** Rexxars has joined #openttd
14:54:31 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
14:54:36 <Belugas> and TrueBrain is not a native speaker, at least not in english ;)
14:56:25 <Dr_Jekyll> i've tried to connect to my usual irc servers in the row i usually do it - but something was wrong with the startscript
14:57:20 *** LA is now known as LordAzamath
14:57:40 <Dr_Jekyll> row = sequence, order
14:58:47 <Dr_Jekyll> and well watching tv is boring too (at least for me) that's the reason why i have not a tv
14:59:56 <Gekz> No-one natively speaks anything in here.
15:00:40 <LordAzamath> I speak natively Estonian :P
15:00:51 <TrueBrain> LordAzamath: you would be the first person on earth
15:00:52 <Dr_Jekyll> ok, then i don't have to beworried bout typos
15:01:33 <Gekz> LordAzamath: that's one retarded language btw
15:01:46 <TrueBrain> ( LordAzamath: you do realise I was trying to insult you, right? :p :p :p)
15:02:30 <TrueBrain> mwah, was a bad joke anyway :)
15:02:56 * TrueBrain takes it back and shows respect to LordAzamath's native speaknig :)
15:04:27 <Belugas> haaaaarrrgh Hargh hou hou hoummm yaaaaaa!!!!
15:09:23 <Roujin> so.. nobody wants to put that "features added since 0.6.0" link to the roadmap page? :(
15:09:43 <blathijs> Roujin: Not sure who is allowed to. I'm not, anyway :-)
15:10:53 <peter1138> 0.6.0 - This version will feature ...
15:10:56 <peter1138> Maybe that needs changing :p
15:13:55 <davis-> "Commercial use by OpenTTD - Very happy"
15:14:38 <Roujin> i think you got that one wrong..
15:16:15 <Roujin> i think this originated in someone saying that the sprites might be on a screenshot that might be on a t-shirt that might be on sale on that site that sells merchandise stuff of OpenTTD that was set up by orudge
15:16:32 * orudge sells Roujin a t-shirt
15:16:45 *** Swallow_ has joined #openttd
15:17:11 <Roujin> that reminds me that I have to buy a T-shirt that says E:\> for my gf...
15:17:22 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
15:18:12 <Roujin> have you got t-shirts of that kind on sale orudge? ;)
15:18:14 <LordAzamath> davis-: That is currently being discussed, don't think that we are yet finished
15:18:26 <Roujin> because her name starts with E ^_^
15:18:54 <davis-> same shit different name?
15:19:02 <Roujin> I'm always saying shes my external memory, so now she gets a shirt with E:\> :P
15:19:07 <orudge> C:\ = main disk, J:\ = an old disk, Y:\ = home directory on server, Z:\ = media directory on server
15:19:20 <davis-> i splitted my hdds quite a lot
15:20:36 <dih> davis-: you mean hda1 - had20 ?
15:21:00 <orudge> my DVD drive is D:, and I have a virtual drive F:
15:21:10 <Ammler> davis-: and what does that help?
15:21:22 <davis-> i just made some mistakes like 6 years ago
15:21:27 <davis-> and i was to lazy to fix it yet
15:21:28 <Ammler> I see no reason to split a desktop in multiple disks
15:21:31 <orudge> however, I also have lots of things like C:\OldDrives\DriveJ, which contains an OldDisk, which contains a DriveG, which contains an OldDisk, which dates back to 1998
15:21:38 <orudge> C:\OldDrives\DriveJ\OldDisk\DriveG\OldDisk :D
15:22:45 <LordAzamath> YAY. I've got 2 partitions :P
15:22:56 <orudge> due to the fact that now and then, I'd get rid of old hard disks (well, stop using them), and copy all their contents to an "OldDisk" folder
15:22:58 *** Swallow_ is now known as Swallow
15:22:59 <LordAzamath> and I doubt I'd need more
15:23:03 <orudge> after a while, you end up with quite am ess
15:23:56 <davis-> ive all my music on one partition , and all the games and movies on another
15:26:13 *** Swallow_ has joined #openttd
15:27:53 <orudge> I have all my music, TV shows, etc, in Z:\Music, Z:\TV shows, etc
15:28:56 *** Swallow__ has joined #openttd
15:29:31 *** Swallow___ has joined #openttd
15:31:35 <Brianetta> LordAzamath: Lose and Lin, surely?
15:31:58 *** Swallow___ is now known as Swallow
15:34:43 <LordAzamath> Brianetta: How would you play all those gmods and hl2-s with Linux :P
15:35:02 <LordAzamath> I use windows only for gaming
15:35:08 <LordAzamath> Garrys Mod and Half Life 2
15:35:11 <Brianetta> I play OpenTTD on Linux
15:35:36 <Ammler> there are other games?
15:35:48 <Brianetta> Oh, and Oolite, of course
15:35:55 <orudge> LordAzamath: HL2, etc, works fairly well on Wine
15:36:24 <Brianetta> I see people say stuff like that a lot.
15:36:31 <LordAzamath> yes, but if I have windows partition, why should I do it the hard way?
15:37:00 <Brianetta> You asked *me* how I'd play "all those gmods and hl2-s "
15:37:14 <Brianetta> I'm windering what they are and why you'd want to
15:37:18 <LordAzamath> like, I've yet to see a man who has successfully played Multi Theft Auto: San Andreas on linux through wine :P
15:37:35 <Brianetta> Look at it from my POV
15:37:55 <Brianetta> I upgraded from DOS to Linux (via Caldera OpenDOS) before Windows 95 was released.
15:37:55 <Eddi|zuHause> why does make say "[LANG] Generating table/strings.h" 3 times?
15:38:10 <Brianetta> Eddi: It wants to be sure.
15:38:26 <Brianetta> It's like invoking Satan
15:38:58 <Brianetta> I updraded to Linux when Windows was still this optional thing for DOS users
15:40:06 <Brianetta> I'm still somewhat surprised when I see people play games in Windows. Back when I was in the un-free world, people used to quit Windows to give Doom more RAM.
15:40:29 <Brianetta> That's if you could run Doom in Windows at all.
15:40:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that was before they innventd directx ;)
15:40:53 <Brianetta> So you still have how many hundreds of megs of RAM given over to inactive GUI crap?
15:40:54 <LordAzamath> back when the computers had 32Mb Ram? :P
15:40:58 <orudge> well, you had direct access to the hardware in DOS
15:41:02 <orudge> which could be bother a blessing and a curse
15:41:26 <Brianetta> You have direct access to hardware in DirectX. That's why they call it that.
15:41:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: the ram problem was about the low 640k... not that windows used some other megabytes that were not accessible by dos anyway
15:41:30 <Brianetta> It's barely protected.
15:41:41 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause: Not entirely
15:41:53 <orudge> Brianetta: yes, but I was commenting on the [16:40:31] <Eddi|zuHause> that was before they innventd directx ;)
15:41:56 <Brianetta> There was also the fact that you could triple your available RAM by not running Windows in it
15:42:20 <Eddi|zuHause> directx is more than a direct access layer
15:42:24 <Brianetta> Still, the last DOS computer I had sported 2MB RAM
15:42:25 * orudge has a smattering of old DOS games, a few of which he plays these days
15:42:30 <Forked> any "official" openttd merchandise anywhere that is not cafepress? :)
15:42:35 <orudge> Forked: not at the moment
15:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> because it still has an abstraction from the actual hardware
15:42:42 <orudge> if you know of any better places to do such things, let me know
15:43:04 <Forked> orudge: I don't, but CP puts the wrong numbers on the packaging and that gives us hell with customs :\
15:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> which is still a huge advantage over DOS
15:43:28 <Brianetta> I'd get some OpenTTD merchandise, but I'm simply not walking around with a giant dollar printed on me.
15:43:44 <Forked> item: $X + shipping: $Y .. oh no.. they just do Item: (x+y) and puts only the total
15:43:51 <Forked> I wanted the coffee cup :)
15:44:21 <Brianetta> Basically, I'm waiting for a better logo (:
15:45:41 <orudge> what's wrong with a dollar sign? It doesn't represent any specific type of dollar, just "money" in general
15:51:42 <Brianetta> Out of context, it's not even clear it's a game
15:52:10 <FauxFaux> Isn't there an official generic currency symbol?
15:52:12 <Brianetta> It's just a big orange square with a dollar, and some lettering that might mean anything
15:52:24 <Brianetta> FauxFaux: That wouldn't make me any keener to wear it
15:56:20 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
15:56:22 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
15:58:18 <Brianetta> Basically, the T-shirt says, "Money!"
15:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> what would people (as in "devs") think about this: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/thousand_separator.diff
15:58:35 <Brianetta> when I'd rather is says "OpenTTD! It's about transport somehow!"
15:59:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it adds a pragma "##separator" to language files, to specify the separator for {COMMA} numbers
15:59:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and defaults to ',' if not specified
16:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. german uses '.' as separator
16:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> {COMMA} is used for (almost) any numbers that are not currencies
16:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. town population, waiting cargo
16:05:55 <Brianetta> I thought German uses . for all thousands
16:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what the patch allows
16:06:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it was only possible for currencies before
16:06:40 <Brianetta> "not just currencies"
16:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> all other numbers were hardcoded to ','
16:07:12 <Brianetta> Some countries use a space
16:07:20 <Brianetta> so it'll be welcome, I imagine
16:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> space is possible, too (at least i see no reason that would prevent that)
16:08:18 <Roujin> hmm, i'm really wondering where I should create and buy that t-shirt...
16:08:48 <Brianetta> Simutrans has a fantastic logo
16:09:08 <Roujin> I found no decent german or at least european site where you can print photos on dark shirts
16:09:28 <Brianetta> Transport Tycoon's box image was good for a t-shirt
16:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i like dark shirts more than light shirts
16:09:39 <Brianetta> The Locomotion logo is great
16:09:54 <Brianetta> Eddi: Me too. Locomotion's logo looks good on black.
16:10:20 <Roujin> also since the dollar is weak, I think ordering on cafepress.com would not be much more expensive than on an european one, even with the added cost for international shipping..
16:10:39 <Brianetta> Roujin: It's excise that hurts, not shipping
16:11:11 <Roujin> pardon me while I look up excise..
16:13:15 <Brianetta> Actually, it'd be customs
16:13:25 <Brianetta> FOr years Customs and Excise was the same department int he UK
16:14:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i think anything below the value of 20€ is free
16:15:12 <Brianetta> Helen bought me a £30 compass from the states. The import duty doubled the price. UPS cheerfully paid it, and stood on the doorstep demanding the extra.
16:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> - bis zu einem Wert von 45,- Euro sind bei einer Sendung von Privat an Privat keine Gebühren zu zahlen. Dies gilt nur bei nicht-kommerziellen Sendungen, also z.B. bei einem Geschenk
16:17:31 <Eddi|zuHause> - bis zu einem Wert von 22,- Euro sind auch bei bestellter Ware, Ebay Auktionen etc. keine Gebühren zu zahlen.
16:18:20 <planetmaker> we don't have all day to wait, lobster_MB ;)
16:18:45 <lobster_MB> well, i guess you're not a student like me then :P
16:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause> note that the 22€ include the shipping costs
16:18:57 <Roujin> Eddi: source? and does that include shipping cost?
16:19:01 <lobster_MB> i just forgot that this isn't #tycoon
16:19:20 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: lobster_MB was last seen in #openttd 10 seconds ago: <lobster_MB> so no patchbot
16:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> lobster_MB: no, but we have DorpsGek
16:19:38 <lobster_MB> alright, i get it :)
16:20:09 <lobster_MB> clearly the Dutch reign supreme with een DorpsGek as bot
16:20:14 <DorpsGek> lobster_MB: Rubidium was last seen in #openttd 4 hours, 4 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <Rubidium> he can relicense it, but AFAIK anything distributed under GPL stays GPL
16:20:47 <Roujin> bah, that's bad. The price is at 32 Dollars, which according to google is approx. 22,7 Euro
16:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Roujin: well, even above that price, there's a chance that you don't get "caught"
16:22:30 <Eddi|zuHause> lobster_MB: so what do you need Rubidium for?
16:22:51 <Roujin> Eddi: wait - in the link you gave me it says "without shipping costs"!
16:23:12 <lobster_MB> Eddi: i wanted to ask him about the details of compiling
16:23:31 <Roujin> iso the 22 euro do not include the shipping costs..
16:23:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "Wichtig ist also, dass die Bemessungsgrundlage auch die Versandkosten enthält." <- i read that sentence
16:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but that appears to be referring to the additional payment
16:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause> very confusing ;)
16:25:38 <Eddi|zuHause> lobster_MB: and why can you only do that with Rubidium?
16:26:15 <Roujin> but I should be fine, since the actual product value is only $19.99 (times 0.71 according to google makes less than 22 Euro in any case)
16:28:02 <Roujin> I'll only see if I find some official page confirming what that link you gave me says
16:29:26 <Roujin> as long as it's not alcohol, tobacco, coffee or perfumes, the < 22 Eur rule applies :)
16:38:05 <lobster> Eddi: because he was involved in the aforementioned discussion
16:41:06 <Brianetta> I like Simutrans' orders system
16:41:25 <Brianetta> You make a line (schedule of orders) and assign vehicles to it.
16:41:48 <Brianetta> It's like shared orders but cleaner.
16:42:42 <TrueBrain> lobster / lobster_MB: (pick a client for crying out loud): how is that typing more than interesting?
16:42:49 <TrueBrain> it is as boring as any other topic regarding the subject
16:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: yeah, i'd like that, too
16:47:25 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: it is the reverse approach, if I read you correctly :)
16:47:30 <TrueBrain> sounds worth implementing in OpenTTD ;)
16:47:32 <Brianetta> I am trying to get Helen playing OpenTTD
16:47:39 <Brianetta> The orders thing just totally bewildered her
16:47:53 <Brianetta> We were just making a coal truck service
16:48:23 <Brianetta> Even the very basics, like "How do I get the coal from the coal mine to the station?"
16:48:47 <Brianetta> Made me realise how much of this game I know because I've been playing it for 14 years
16:49:18 <Brianetta> Things sometimes aren't obvious, and I'm no longer aware of that
16:50:00 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: write them down, cna only improve OpenTTD
16:50:20 <TrueBrain> bah, now I remember why I hated the mirror in .hu ..
16:50:22 <Brianetta> I rather suspect I'll be asked to provide the patch, too
16:50:24 <TrueBrain> more conenction drops then a rain-storm
16:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "wiki: How to get your wife playing openttd"
16:50:35 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: depends on who you ask ;)
16:50:56 <Brianetta> I'll do some research with my wife.
16:50:58 *** [1]Roujin has joined #openttd
16:51:47 <TrueBrain> I had to send a file 4 (!) times before it came over in one piece .. omg ..
16:52:07 <Belugas> [12:50] <Eddi|zuHause> "wiki: How to get your wife playing openttd" <--- mmmh... would love to read and let HER read it too ;)
16:52:09 <lobster> TrueBrain: most certainly it's interesting for OS X users like myself. i've not been able to play a game with for instance the new vehicle pool thing
16:52:34 <TrueBrain> lobster: the only other way (besides the obvious removing 10.5 Intel :p :p), is to compile yourself
16:52:39 <lobster> the broken Leopard builds had bothered me for ages, so this is an exciting prospect
16:52:41 <glx> lobster: you can still use the PPC version
16:53:02 <lobster> glx: yes, but that slowed down the game to a problematic level\
16:53:10 <lobster> TrueBrain: quite true
16:53:13 <Brianetta> I'm going to compose a list of UI stumbling blocks, with perhaps alternative ways of explaining what's going on and (occasionally) a suggestion for a change to the game.
16:53:23 <TrueBrain> lobster: as that might be, just reliase that we can never distribute such binary as 'official' binary of any kind
16:53:27 <Brianetta> As an example, shared orders would require a gameplay change
16:53:44 <lobster> i wouldn't expect you to. TrueBrain
16:54:06 <Brianetta> I'm led to believe, though, that there's no addressable list of orders lists
16:54:14 <Brianetta> It's all done by copying pointers
16:54:37 <Brianetta> so any changes like this won't be popular with devs who'd have to do work
16:54:59 <TrueBrain> lobster: so what is new? He isn't the first to suggest building nightlies himself .. the last person who 'tried', did it for 2 days
16:55:23 *** [1]Roujin is now known as Roujin
16:57:11 <lobster> perhaps i'm being positive, but i do have some faith in this, TrueBrain
16:57:13 <peter1138> Brianetta, what's the connection between order lists and UI stumbling blocks?
16:57:20 <lobster> and on that bombshell, i'm off to buy some dinner
16:57:40 <TrueBrain> lobster: and maybe I have seen too many of those people passing by ;) I hope for you it works out :)
16:57:44 <Brianetta> peter1138: There's a really opaque UI to shared orders
16:57:48 <TrueBrain> in the mean time, I give an other try to get 10.5 Intel official supported ..
16:57:52 * TrueBrain hates OSX for the complexity ..
16:58:05 <Brianetta> peter1138: Compare to Simutrans, which has a really elegant idea
16:58:19 <Brianetta> You define a "line" and assign your vehicles to it
16:58:32 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
16:58:43 <Brianetta> whereas you can't bring up a list of order lists in openttd
16:58:48 <peter1138> That's what vehicle groups should have been, possibly.
16:58:54 <Brianetta> and searching for them is, I'm led to believe, expensive.
16:59:08 <Brianetta> Perhaps vehicle groups could become this
16:59:23 <Brianetta> Combine vehicle groups with shared orders (and liveries)
16:59:28 <peter1138> That would conflict with existing uses of vehicle groups.
16:59:36 <Brianetta> There are existing uses?
16:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, conditional autoreplace, for example
16:59:57 <peter1138> I use them on your server ;)
17:00:11 <peter1138> I have groups for freight services, groups for express lines, etc...
17:00:18 <Brianetta> Well, I wasn't psychic enough to figure that out. Another thing for the list.
17:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> only replace vehicles you manually move to the "replace" group
17:00:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
17:01:04 <Brianetta> Conditional autoreplace would likely be wanted for all trains on a shared orders list anyway
17:01:15 <Brianetta> autoreplace is such an artificial idea
17:01:30 <Brianetta> so how about grouped groups
17:01:50 <Brianetta> with each leaf group having an order list
17:01:56 <Brianetta> whichoverrides the one above
17:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but lacking the ability to slowly rotate out engines to the "lower" services, autoreplace is the only useful way
17:02:11 <Brianetta> and a livery which overrides the one above
17:02:35 <Brianetta> Eddi: You could just shift it to a slower group
17:02:43 <Brianetta> and it'd just get those orders and be off
17:02:49 <Brianetta> and even a new livery (:
17:02:58 <eekee> SmatZ: Thanks for the patch!
17:03:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Brianetta: yes, but switching out the wagons and stuff is a big hassle
17:03:11 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, could separator ever need to contain more than one character, or a UTF-8 encoded character?
17:03:23 <Brianetta> Eddi|zuHause: That's an aspect of the UI which needs improvement, too
17:03:44 <Brianetta> but re-purposing a train is something I always considered part of the game play
17:04:04 <Brianetta> In my last game I was always so short of money, every wagon counted
17:04:08 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i didn't see any uses for multi-character separators, but utf-8 might be a valid concern
17:04:19 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, and also, do we ever use decimal separators? hehe
17:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> about "will we ever...", i'm not psychic enough for that ;)
17:07:26 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it should not be a huge problem to make it a char[8] or something
17:08:44 *** davis-- has joined #openttd
17:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i don't know how to properly copy the separator-string into the buffer...
17:23:27 <SmatZ> eekee: ... you are welcome :) but what patch are you talking about?
17:24:37 <Roujin> thanks for your help earlier Eddi|zuHause
17:26:00 *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry
17:31:51 <SmatZ> ahh, you are welcome, eekee :-)
17:46:27 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
17:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: btw. the currency separator is not multi/utf-8 capable either
18:00:26 <Wolf01> does anybody knows how to block a connecction to an IP using Local Security Settings / IP Security Policies?
18:02:26 <Wolf01> ok, I added an entry to the IP filter list, an entry with "block" as rule to filter operations
18:03:14 <Wolf01> and I'm trying to add a policy, I activated it but the IP is reachable :(
18:04:56 <peter1138> If I remember correctly you need to create an 'allow' rule, and then add that as the 'catch all'
18:05:21 <peter1138> The only time I set up that stuff I was creating is as default-deny anyway.
18:05:40 <peter1138> Wolf01, your solution is to go to the machine and remove the filter.
18:06:18 <Wolf01> I think I'll install a firewall...
18:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause> err... i have a missing catenary pylon
18:40:22 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
18:56:35 *** Yeggstry has joined #openttd
18:58:07 <peter1138> Rubidium, does the obg system allow for 32bpp-only graphics replacement?
19:01:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
19:50:28 <Rubidium> peter1138: no, it's pure 8 bits grf
19:50:55 <Rubidium> and you can't do 32 bits anyways because then you miss colour mappings and such
19:51:57 <Rubidium> one could ofcourse make a bare minimum 1x1 pixel obg and replace that immediatelly with pngs
19:58:33 *** Clinton has joined #openttd
20:21:12 *** ben_goodger has joined #openttd
20:25:31 <Aylomen> welcome to heaven's chat.......or hell's chat?
20:32:43 <Wolf01> the fish with the large mouth and the light
20:37:57 <Wolf01> like in the Spongebob movie, the fake ice cream kiosk, which was the fish tongue
20:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i really feel sorry for you, for watching spongebob :p
20:47:38 <Wolf01> spongebob is funny... it's whacky
21:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> does that do anything in vim?
21:24:28 <Prof_Frink> E492: Not an editor command: beef
21:34:48 *** Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen
21:46:42 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
22:03:11 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
22:07:42 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
22:22:56 <Ammler> hmm, I desync without original grfs...
22:24:26 <Ammler> or is it possible that sample.cat can desync?
22:29:04 <Eddi|zuHause> sample.cat only contains the sound files
22:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> are different things happening when sounds that should be there are not played?
22:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> like different random decisions whether to play a sound?
22:30:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't think of a reason either
22:31:11 <Ammler> I created a empty file sample.cat
22:31:24 <Ammler> or is there an other possibility
22:31:35 <Ammler> seems somehow forgotten from Rubidum :-)
22:32:43 <Ammler> replaced the empty file now with original sample.cat, no desync
22:33:31 <Ammler> the font of OpenGFX isn't that optimal
22:35:23 <Ammler> got a strange error if I join with empty sample.cat
22:53:37 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
22:55:35 <Ammler> glx> vehicle sprite "size"? <-- yeah!
22:55:58 <Ammler> what has that to do with sample.cat?
23:00:55 <Ammler> I can join dihedral's nightly...
23:01:11 * Ammler is going to read changelog :-)
23:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so 0.6 desyncs but nightly does not?
23:04:26 <Ammler> yesterday nightly does
23:04:39 <Ammler> but there are only 3 changes between
23:04:47 <Ammler> no commits the whole day?
23:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen any...
23:05:32 <Ammler> dih's nightly server has no newgrfs...
23:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> especially not FS#2287 ;)
23:07:15 <Ammler> eddi that looks more like a region setting then language
23:12:51 <Ammler> renaming opengfx*.grf to trg*.grf works nice for 0.6.2
23:15:13 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
23:19:59 <Ammler> 0.6.2 does also not desync
23:20:14 <Ammler> so it is something with newgrfs, strange :-(
23:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you are free to provide a de_CH localization ;)
23:22:22 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: I liked to, but you know how easy the translation support is...
23:23:14 <Ammler> you mean, because I just joined a left again?
23:24:28 <Ammler> sorry, if I broke a rule, but your server is one of the few with newgrfs and I am wondering why I desync on coop ps.
23:24:58 *** Sir-Bob has joined #openttd
23:28:04 <Brianetta> Have you read it yet?
23:28:24 <Ammler> Brianetta: if you are still on the server, you can reset my company, sorry for any troubles I made :-)
23:28:46 <Brianetta> Ammler: Stop talking to me about your visit to the server and read the damned page, please
23:28:49 <Ammler> I thought, you will delete unpassworded companies automatically.
23:29:21 <Ammler> Brianetta: I don't see it, sorry :-(
23:30:01 * Brianetta hits Ammler with a rolled up web browser
23:30:40 <Ammler> I read it now the 3. time :-P
23:30:52 <Brianetta> So, now you know better what causes desyncs?
23:31:09 <Ammler> I didn't desync on your server
23:31:19 <Brianetta> You didn't do anything
23:31:53 <Ammler> I founded a company and let it run for about 2 days...
23:32:31 <Ammler> I need to test again, if the server is busy
23:32:45 <Brianetta> It's a new game, about half an hour ago
23:33:07 <Brianetta> "Ammler: hmm, paused?"
23:33:43 <Ammler> that's why I founded a company.
23:33:56 <Ammler> you don't unpause for specators, it seems...
23:34:08 <Brianetta> min_players works like that
23:34:20 <Brianetta> and doing nothing on an empty server won't desync you
23:35:11 <Ammler> Do you know another 0.6er server with GRFs?
23:36:11 <Brianetta> I don't know any other servers, really
23:36:45 <Ammler> I am really confused, why I desync on coop ps because of missing sample.cat
23:38:59 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd
23:39:24 <Ammler> hmm, now I am on another NewGRF server without desync..
23:39:42 <Brianetta> You need sample.cat
23:39:52 <Brianetta> It's not an optional file
23:40:07 <Ammler> you can replace it with a empty file
23:40:14 <Brianetta> As long as the sample data is the same length
23:40:20 <Brianetta> An empty one's fine for solo
23:40:50 <Ammler> I joined a mega server without troubles...
23:41:09 <Ammler> the only server I know, yet, is coop
23:41:23 <Ammler> which doesn't like me with empty sample.cat.
23:46:09 <Ammler> the grf replacment is quite useless if sample.cat can't be replaced too.
23:51:24 <Ammler> also no problem with cargodest branch
23:51:44 <Ammler> that is just strange... (sorry for my monolog, btw.)
continue to next day ⏵
