IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-09-09
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00:59:39 <lobster> anyone know if the vehicle list messing up has something to with the new vehicle pool and/or not using a nightly but 0.6.2 (as the OS X nightlies still seem to be broken)?
01:08:55 <SmatZ> I don't remember anyone reporting problems with vehicle lists
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05:29:50 * Celestar has a 6-hour exam coming up
05:30:43 <nckomodo> I'm so glad I'm done with school for now
05:32:09 <nckomodo> where I think I'm looking at another channel and someone from a different channel joins
05:32:19 <nckomodo> "hey its that guy from #someotherchannel!"
05:32:49 <nckomodo> oh wait no it isnt I'm still looking at #someotherchannel
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05:37:11 <Celestar> nckomodo: I am the examiner (=
05:37:46 <Celestar> not the examinee (does that even exist?) :P
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05:43:22 <Forked> also I'm gonna be late for work again because of cargodest :)
05:43:39 <Celestar> there still are two bugs to finish off :
05:43:57 * Forked is just happy his vdsl2 started working again
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05:48:14 <stevenh> Guys, are any of the NoAI Devs here?
05:49:18 <Celestar> here maybe, awake .. I think not :P
05:49:23 <Celestar> TrueBrain: are you awake? :P
05:50:13 <stevenh> I just wanted to know if the Buy Land item has been left out of the provided functions for a reason or if it's just on a todo somewhere?
05:51:39 <Celestar> I *think* it is a todo
05:52:44 <stevenh> Is there any way of seeing the current todo(s)?
05:54:26 <Celestar> that I don't know sorry
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06:05:40 <planetmaker> stevenh: try #openttd.noai
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10:03:20 <Eddi|zuHause> +STR_JUST_RAW_STRING :{RAW_STRING} <- what is this? is this supposed to be in translation files?
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10:21:00 <peter1138> shake it all about!
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10:32:53 <peter1138> There's no such rule!
10:32:56 <Brianetta> Pikka is an exception
10:33:07 <Brianetta> peter1138: There is, according to thingy.
10:39:45 <TrueBrain> wasn't there a rule against such urls...
10:39:52 <TrueBrain> do we really need to put all of them in the topic? :p
10:40:12 <TrueBrain> (nothing against you Brianetta, but we once had a user, I won't call names *bjarni*, who pasted more bash-urls then lines of text :p)
10:41:04 <Brianetta> The two qdb URLs were to different ends
10:41:21 <Brianetta> The first was a submission from this channel, and just a notification
10:41:27 <Brianetta> The second was damned funny, and a one-off
10:44:05 <TrueBrain> why are rooms always too small for your stuff :(
10:44:54 <Brianetta> TrueBrain: They aren't if, like me, you have guys in your house adding places to store crap
10:45:02 <Brianetta> They boarded the loft yesterday
10:45:09 <Brianetta> and are installing shleving above the stairs now
10:45:37 <TrueBrain> well, the only place I could 'add' is outside the building
10:45:45 <TrueBrain> I don't think they appreciate it when I tried that ;)
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10:48:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14277 /trunk/findversion.sh: -Change [Makefile]: Use [ -n ... ] instead of using return values from grep and read in findversion.sh.
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10:58:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14278 /trunk/findversion.sh: -Cleanup [Makefile]: Rename $TAGS to $TAG.
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11:02:39 <dih> in the advanced settings window (formerly known as configure patches)
11:02:48 <dih> the warning about the station spread
11:02:56 <dih> or can that not be removed
11:03:13 <dih> there are a few settings where a higher value means more resource hungry
11:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> why are rooms always too small for your stuff :( <- same as harddrives
11:08:47 <Progman> dih: your diaper is already full? *runs*
11:08:49 <Eddi|zuHause> who needs pants when you have harddrives...
11:09:38 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: after 1.5 TB of home storage, and 0.5 TB in backup storage, I kind of have enough :p
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11:21:04 <Rubidium> peter1138: can you take a look at FS#2281? It's likely caused by r14175.
11:26:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14279 /trunk/os/debian/ (control control.in rules): -Revert (r14237): Undo changes for renaming Debian packages, this is not the right way to do this.
11:27:13 <blathijs> Rubidium: Could you backport r14279? Or shall I?
11:27:26 <Rubidium> I'll do that (eventually)
11:27:38 <peter1138> There's a line to remove, heh
11:27:53 <peter1138> In t' drop down event handler.
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11:32:44 * welshdragon whoines at Brianetta
11:33:27 <Rubidium> welshdragon: stop using waypoints and making RV jams :)
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11:35:28 * peter1138 spots a dead pixel. Argh.
11:36:01 <welshdragon> Rubidium, i'm not flooding, and how do i stop rv jams?
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11:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> böser raubmordkopierer :p
11:36:58 <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause, english please?
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11:37:22 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: if you can suggest a proper translation for that word...
11:37:23 <Rubidium> welshdragon: by stopping all road vehicles (yes that's a "bad" fix for the problem)
11:38:11 <welshdragon> Rubidium, i kinf of rely on 200 rv's
11:38:49 <dih> not as bad as relying on ships, but yeah
11:39:52 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: assuming Boeser is a location, the Boeser robbery murder copy cat?
11:40:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no... "böse" means "evil"
11:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: "Raubkopierer" means something along the lines of "software pirate"
11:41:43 <Eddi|zuHause> and the "Mord" in there is kind of a satirical overexaggeration of the itself overly exaggerated word
11:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> because nobody is violently robbing software...
11:43:12 <dih> he was not murdered... he desynced....
11:43:50 <Rubidium> so I haven't lost my translation skills :) reading something COMPLETELY different in a foreign language that there actually is (in latin I made murder parties of weddings and vice versa)
11:44:20 <Rubidium> not to mention failing to write proper English sentences
11:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's kind of a running gag whenever there is a news message about file sharing and copyright law, to extend that word with even more non-sensical crimes
11:44:50 <welshdragon> one of the other companies has 127 rv's
11:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> does the owner of the vehicle really matter?
11:45:35 <welshdragon> no, i'm just stating that there's over 200 rv's
11:45:54 <welshdragon> and that's probably what the problem is
11:46:13 <Rubidium> ask Brianetta to disable RVs for his next game
11:46:25 <peter1138> We need a 0.6 branch test ;)
11:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ask Rubidium to release 0.6.3 before Brianettas next game :p
11:47:15 <dih> there have been openttdcoop games with way more rv's than that
11:47:26 <Rubidium> that's going to take a while to be released
11:47:47 <dih> we are busy on the german translation ;-)
11:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "{P Zug Züge}" <- that is already my alternate suggestion
11:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause> or "Z{P ug üge}" would do the job also, but it looks ugly
11:56:13 <dih> it looks ugly, but nicer to do
11:56:40 <dih> if you want ugly you can even split it up more
11:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the second one needs the reference string, {P 0 "" e}
11:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause> at least that's what i did with the gender in the prototype window
11:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the grammar system is cool when you know how to use it :p
11:59:17 <dih> hehe - i only now realised it said Zugs :-D
11:59:33 * dih does not know that yet....
11:59:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hence my comment ;)
12:00:07 <dih> that really is a cute one i must say :-P
12:00:29 <dih> Voreinstellung für Signale though is not the best descriptive either :-(
12:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it's furthest away from "Standard" i could get ;)
12:01:53 <dih> i translated a tooltip string
12:02:14 <dih> did not think keeping it 'short' was gonna be _that_ important, as it was a tooltip
12:02:18 <dih> well - it was too long :-D
12:04:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you can put line breaks in there ;)
12:07:44 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can i "mute" a running process (i.e. redirect stdout to /dev/null)?
12:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> without stopping it, i mean ;)
12:08:47 <Ammler> use another window :-)
12:10:34 <planetmaker> man kill is your friend :P
12:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: fails to meet requirement 2 ;)
12:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i would think there'd be some magic i could do in /proc/<id>/
12:16:52 <dih> uh - that could really hurt :-D
12:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, which is why i ask, and not simply try ;)
12:20:08 <dih> someone can build docs if max_ships = 0?
12:20:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, when the gui buttons are not disabled
12:22:13 <Ammler> dih, advanced setting :-)
12:22:25 <dih> not the same thing ammler
12:22:32 <dih> building something != hiding build options
12:25:39 <planetmaker> dih: you wouldn't want to disable building the infrastructure. That's not nice.
12:25:50 <planetmaker> Why would you want it anyway?
12:26:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14280 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: use IsRailWaypointTile() instead of IsTileType() and IsRailWaypoint() checks at several places
12:27:04 <dih> planetmaker: imagin seeing an oil rig, and seeing that you just about have enough money for a doc and 2 ships
12:27:30 <dih> then you build the dock and find you cannot build ships as max_ships = 0
12:27:44 <dih> and you are losing money?
12:27:51 <planetmaker> imagine you want to build a nice station and just miss a dock for your eye candy. What then.
12:28:14 <planetmaker> dih: there are no technical means to stop human stupidity. It's not even worth the try
12:28:42 <SmatZ> dih: Advanced Settings - GUI - second from the bottom
12:29:19 <Eddi|zuHause> <dih> then you build the dock and find you cannot build ships as max_ships = 0 <- that's why the GUI buttons get disabled
12:31:51 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I take it trams aren't the problem per se, then?
12:31:58 <Brianetta> It's jammed RVs generally
12:32:01 <dih> SmatZ, Eddi: that option is not enabled by default!
12:33:08 <SmatZ> dih: it is not, most patches are TTD-like by default
12:33:40 <SmatZ> though... in TTD, ships were always available
12:37:54 <Rubidium> Brianetta, more specifically: imagine a T junction where there's a jam on the | part and RVs coming from the left and right merging into that jam
12:38:15 <Rubidium> jam can also be just two vehicles driving with almost no space between them
12:38:32 <Rubidium> and a third one trying the squeeze in between them at a junction
12:38:45 <Brianetta> I can either disable RVs, or disable LilDood
12:39:20 <Brianetta> He had one city in a state where you just couldn't see tarmac
12:40:05 <Brianetta> I suppose trams are more likely to reveal the problem because they're less likely to be able to choose a non-jammed path
12:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <SmatZ> dih: it is not, most patches are TTD-like by default <- which i have complained many times about... defaults should be for newbies, not for TTD traditionalists
12:44:16 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: complaining about default settings is not allowed.
12:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ln: which part of the topic says that?
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12:45:09 * SmatZ agrees with Eddi|zuHause
12:45:25 <SmatZ> on the other hand... who wants to play with default TTD settings
12:45:54 <Eddi|zuHause> there are rumors that they exist ;)
12:46:08 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: dunno. i tried to complain about the default message settings being too verbose on a big map, you'll have a newspaper popping up every damn second. i was told not to complain.
12:46:13 <SmatZ> mostly TTDP fans I guess :)
12:46:29 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the settings that are totally senseless (imho) is the red_twoway_eol
12:47:07 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: not to complain and change the settings instead. later some guy called "ludde" complained about the same thing.
12:47:09 <SmatZ> it is used to force trains to go different way when the signal is red
12:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean not the existance of the setting, but the default value thereof
12:47:22 <SmatZ> but if the signal is oneway, then the train may choose to go to the red signal
12:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i perfectly understand that coop-style people like to abuse such settings to the fullest ;)
12:49:29 <SmatZ> I think it would be nice to have GUI for all settings
12:49:38 <SmatZ> and the ability to reset to default everything
12:50:03 <SmatZ> but then it could be too complex for many users
12:50:16 <SmatZ> like "wth is Advanced YAPF settings?"
12:50:23 <SmatZ> and what si a PF penalty?
12:50:48 <blathijs> Something to make the pathfinder avoid things
12:51:15 <Rubidium> show settings: beginner, advanced user, expert ?
12:51:17 <blathijs> ie, rather take a detour than plan a route through a tunnel, or through a red signal, etc
12:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the "important" settings need to be sorted in a way that they are accessible to newbies, and the "unimportant" (expert) settings should be in another window
12:51:28 <blathijs> That was not a question :-)
12:51:55 <ln> default values are not supposed to be sensible!
12:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> "beginner" settings could be stuff like the road driving side, language and stuff
12:53:39 <Rubidium> advanced user most of the currently shown settings and expert's the rest
12:54:44 <Eddi|zuHause> some of the current "advanced" settings should rather be difficulty settings
12:57:13 <Ammler> start a game through a "wizzard" with about 5 pages...
13:00:19 <Ammler> first page askes for clima and difficult level then the following depense on that...
13:02:21 <Ammler> you might be able to "learn" which settings needs which level until the release of 0.7 :-)
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13:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i didn't get an answer previously... what is the policy about "{RAW_STRING}" in language files?
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13:09:39 <dih> Eddi|zuHause: {RAW_STRING} is not to be used in translations
13:09:51 <dih> so nobody can translate STR_JUST_RAW_STRING
13:10:35 <dih> also, currently in the db we have {BLACK}Liefert: {GOLD}
13:10:40 <dih> for {BLACK}Supplies: {GOLD}
13:10:49 <dih> would "Produziert" not be better?
13:11:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that does not quite cover it...
13:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd log 13799
13:13:16 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: There is no command "openttd".
13:13:29 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: help [<plugin>] [<command>]
13:13:36 <Eddi|zuHause> @help openttd log
13:13:36 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: There is no command "openttd log".
13:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause> @help openttd commit
13:13:42 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
13:13:53 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by glx :: r13799 /trunk/src/lang (36 files) (2008-07-23 14:58:43 UTC)
13:13:54 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix (r13730): {RAW_STRING} should be used in english.txt only
13:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: the bot commands me to contact you.
13:19:24 <dih> and {STRING} should be used instead of {RAW_STRING}?
13:19:57 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently that's what the commit does
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13:26:49 <dih> Service non-stop at <- that sucks
13:27:12 <dih> can it not way Go non-stop to service at
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13:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "this timetable will take 5,555 ticks to complete"
13:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "this vehicle is currently running 374,924 ticks late"
13:55:53 <hylje> how many centuries is that
13:58:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i was playing that (old) game with daylength 4, so the original timetable is 18 days, and the lateness is roughly 3 years ;)
13:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> where the train is 43 years old
13:59:44 <hylje> i'd myself be pretty upset if my train ended up three years late
14:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a typical case of "a 10% error margin on autofill would have solved this"
14:02:45 <dih> for tool tips, does the size of the toop tip windows ajust to the lines the text uses?
14:03:16 <dih> i.e. length of string cannot be detected, but what about if i use 3x {} in translated text
14:03:28 <dih> will the tool tip window be bigger?
14:04:46 <dih> you think so or you know so :-P
14:05:07 <SmatZ> there are multiline tooltips, so I guess it would work
14:06:45 <dih> i have already written a tooltip that was too long :-S
14:09:07 <welshdragon> Brianetta, these desyncs are annoying me
14:09:35 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a trivial solution to that ;)
14:11:07 <dih> welshdragon: then fix them
14:11:27 <welshdragon> i knowwhat the biug is
14:11:53 <welshdragon> yes, and i know, it's been fixed
14:11:58 <glx> dih: you can try it by modifying german.txt ;)
14:12:20 <dih> yes glx, just right now i am at work and dont wanna start a game
14:12:36 <dih> thankfully nobody asks questions when wt2 is open in my browser :-D
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14:20:08 <Belugas> work, wt2? same as irc@swork :)
14:20:54 <Forked> also if you're a coder.. irssi has a great theme for you
14:22:25 <hylje> perfect theme for any code monkey
14:22:59 <hylje> real coders blatantly irc and doesn't afraid of managers
14:23:45 <Forked> I actually need irc for workrelated things now and then :)
14:23:57 <Forked> (easy way to communicate with people at competing ISPs)
14:24:40 <dih> i was thinking of writing some kind of bridge to another chat system for that :-P
14:25:16 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: i don't find any language where it is something other than ""
14:25:31 <dih> the english it self is ""
14:25:42 <dih> it's like "why do we need that?"
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14:30:15 <peter1138> Sometimes you need to include nothing ;P
14:30:59 <welshdragon> laggy wlan is laggy
14:31:05 <ln> "" in english would be "ciao a tutti" in italian
14:31:10 <dih> wow - your wisdom welshdragon
14:31:36 <Belugas> so is yours dih, hehe
14:31:45 <Belugas> [10:25] <dih> it's like "why do we need that?"
14:35:47 <welshdragon> time to try the ethernet
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14:40:27 <dih> Belugas: why dont you enlighten me?
14:41:15 <Belugas> you mean: "why don't you baby feed me, Belugas?" ?
14:42:53 <dih> no Belugas, i mean, why can you not as a dev explain to me the advantage of having an emtpy string in the language file
14:43:25 <peter1138> I already explained.
14:44:27 <dih> yes - you did - i was more getting at Belugas ;-)
14:45:35 <Belugas> dih, why should I when you have the sources yourself and when you kow how to search for things?
14:46:23 <dih> becaus, due to some odd misunderstanding, i was still under the false impression of you actually being a friendly and helpful person
14:46:48 <dih> i thought that was quite a good one :-P
14:46:51 <Lakie> There are limits to peple pataince.
14:47:22 <dih> no Lakie, in this case it's just Belugas and I having some fun
14:47:40 * peter1138 is having some Phun.
14:48:02 <peter1138> No, it's on the PC.
14:48:44 <Lakie> Haven't got much done on new objects. :/
14:48:45 <peter1138> My suspension system doesn't work if the axle boxes are not connected together :/
14:49:49 <Belugas> Lakie, fear not, i'm totally stalled too
14:49:59 <Belugas> wife has some higher plans for me :S
14:52:20 <dih> "could you fetch the vase from that top shelf for me?"
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14:59:17 * Belugas hands a chair to dih. Now, you can climb
14:59:48 <peter1138> I think he needs a lift.
15:00:04 <peter1138> One from a coal mine.
15:00:19 <LilDood> Any idea why OTTD wouldn't work on a PowerPC mac running Mac OSX 10.3.9?
15:00:38 <Forked> not enough power! (ok that wasn't funny, please forgive me)
15:00:46 <Lakie> Don't you need to compile any openttd past 0.5.x for powerpc?
15:01:01 <Lakie> I don't think the official builds include the old mac cpus
15:01:22 <dih> Lakie: they do, they are universal builds
15:01:51 <Lakie> PowerPC and Intel use completely different Assembly
15:02:17 <dih> have you never heared of universal binaries?
15:03:59 <peter1138> LilDood, depends what "wouldn't work" means.
15:04:07 <dih> you can buy a 12" ppc at quite a reasonable price :-P
15:05:40 <peter1138> The lost art of reporting bugs.
15:05:46 <peter1138> Will it ever return?
15:06:05 <Lakie> Probably not, peter1138...
15:06:45 <dih> LilDood: you said that earlier
15:06:52 <dih> i can tell you it runs on 10.4 :-P
15:08:02 <dih> LilDood: what kind of mac you got?
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15:10:01 <LilDood> dih: I already said, PowerPC
15:11:08 *** tycoonmarkj is now known as welshdragon
15:11:29 <Belugas> any USEFULL error messages, LilDood ?
15:11:49 <Belugas> nor BEHAVIOURS ? sounds, lights? smoke?
15:12:13 <LilDood> Its does the running thing where the icon gets bigger and fades away, whirs and then nothing
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15:13:22 <peter1138> You need to try running it from a terminal window. It might tell you more.
15:13:37 <m1cmack> I have troubles with starting a server
15:13:44 <m1cmack> can somebody help me?
15:17:06 <Belugas> m1cmack: what are the steps you have taken to try to solve it? what are the problems you have encountered? have you tried searching wiki? forum? what is your version? yur OS?
15:20:36 <yorick> I told ya whales were scary!
15:20:43 *** peter1138 changes topic to "0.6.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | We Love YAPP | THIS IS NOT A PSYCHIC SUPPORT CHANNEL"
15:21:33 <Sacro> I don't see a way to see available trams D:
15:21:56 <yorick> could you help me, my crystal sphere is broken
15:24:14 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl
15:24:14 *** yorick was kicked by peter1138 (My crystal foot can still kick)
15:24:34 <dih> LilDood: with 'what kind of mac' i did not mean the processor
15:25:00 <dih> i.e. imac g3/4 iboot g3/4 power book ....
15:25:15 <peter1138> "gpl the entire project and the problem is solved!" << Haha
15:25:34 <peter1138> I'm glad you're not my solicitor.
15:25:51 <dih> i thought it was amusing :-P
15:26:46 *** peter1138 sets mode: -b *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl
15:28:30 <dih> which would make it a PowerMac
15:29:10 <dih> G5 are sweet little things
15:29:22 <LilDood> Thats what the setup guide says
15:29:24 <dih> why dont you upgrade to 10.4?
15:30:03 <SmatZ> [17:29:43] <LilDood> That costs money <== welcome to the Apple world :-P
15:30:27 <Eddi|zuHause> wait... this is the first time i see yorick not joining 0.2 seconds after the ban is lifted...
15:30:36 <SmatZ> anyway, LilDood, did you try running openttd from console? what does it say? what version do you use and what version was last working?
15:30:39 <LilDood> It cost us something like ?1.5k i think
15:30:53 <dih> no, you should not buy a new mac
15:30:58 <dih> just a new operating system
15:31:06 <LilDood> I tried it from ternimal, nothing extra
15:31:14 <dih> mac prices are nearly the same all over the world*
15:31:32 <LilDood> not my decision to upgrade
15:31:33 <dih> pricess are lower in the US
15:32:35 <dih> then you should have less issues getting it upgraded
15:32:53 <LilDood> No point, we hardly use it
15:33:11 <LilDood> I'm only on it now cause my PC is broke
15:33:17 <dih> LilDood: that is a wast of a very good computer
15:33:35 <yorick> Eddi: it took a while, I was playing :-)
15:33:44 <dih> if nobody uses it, why can you not use it?
15:34:27 <dih> and there are no games for os x?
15:34:45 <LilDood> No, its just I have lots of PC games
15:35:02 <LilDood> that and this mac is a bit slow, we havn't upgraded it
15:35:34 <dih> i am sure if you wanted to get rid of it the openttd guys would take it :-D
15:36:00 <dih> well - then make it usable :-P
15:36:07 <LilDood> It gets a lot of sleep
15:36:10 <welshdragon> 'must demolish bus station first' <- that's what i want rid of
15:36:28 <LilDood> You using the bulldozer thingy?
15:36:54 <LilDood> not the remove only road thing
15:36:55 <dih> LilDood: how did you try to start the game from the command line
15:37:45 <dih> in one of those folders there is a file called openttd
15:39:18 <LilDood> i'm in the OTTD folder which has all the stuff in
15:39:24 <welshdragon> LilDood, that's what i was doing
15:39:49 <LilDood> Switch it to bus station
15:41:00 <welshdragon> well, i never knew that :P
15:42:31 <dih> LilDood: cd to OpenTTD.app/Contents/MacOS
15:43:23 <LilDood> k, its doing something
15:44:30 <dih> and give us the url in here of the paste
15:44:45 <LilDood> Segmentation fault is the only line of output
15:44:52 <dih> oh and on top of that specify what version of openttd you are trying to run
15:49:56 <Belugas> now, what should we say to uncle dih for his help?
15:50:25 <Kloopy> "Can I stoke your beard?"
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15:53:11 <Rubidium> see, I already told Bjarni... you can't compile an OSX binary that works on 10.3, 10.4 *and* 10.5. Only one for 10.3 and 10.4 or 10.4 and 10.5... Apple has really been doing great work lately
15:55:40 <Rubidium> LilDood: the best you can do is post a bug report on flyspray that the 0.6.2 release doesn't work on 10.3 and that the nightlies do
15:56:25 <dih> Rubidium: then the best thing to do is to make 2 versions for os x
15:56:51 <ln> Rubidium: that might be the price of not trying to maintain backwards compatibility forever like Microsoft.
15:57:25 <dih> ln: they did that already once before
15:57:32 <dih> thinking of os 9 to os x here
15:57:56 <dih> hehe - simply build binaries for os 9, who wants to play can install classic :-D
15:58:13 <glx> dih: it's impossible to make a working 10.5 intel
15:58:18 <ln> dih: can install if they happen to have a ppc.
16:00:02 <Rubidium> we could ofcourse remove the locale detection from OSX as that's most likely the part of OpenTTD causing the crash
16:01:26 <ln> most likely based on what evidence?
16:01:52 <Rubidium> the fact that Bjarni has been messing with it
16:02:33 <Rubidium> and the fact that the code is different if 'max mac version' >= 10.5 than when it's < 10.5
16:03:02 <Rubidium> and the nightly farm compiles with max mac version 10.4 and Bjarni makes the releases with max mac version 10.5
16:04:43 <ln> Rubidium: removing locale detection would be a big step backwards in usability. and you should have at least a backtrace to support your claims.
16:05:49 <Rubidium> fine, then we'll remove 10.3 and 10.5 from the "officially" supported versions of OSX
16:06:01 <Rubidium> solves this issue and the compile farm issue
16:06:32 <ln> wait, i have a better idea: remove OS X from the "officially" supported ports
16:07:00 <Rubidium> fine by me too; just use darwine
16:11:28 <Rubidium> ln: what would calling an API function with more parameters than it "supports" do?
16:12:51 <SpComb> Rubidium: make daemons fly out of your nose
16:15:41 <Rubidium> SpComb: not out mine, I'm staying as far aware from Apple products as possible
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16:20:26 <Rubidium> who should be sure of what?
16:21:03 <Pikka> that this is not a psychic support channel?
16:22:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i fear this "angewendet"/"angewandt" discussion is not going to lead anywhere...
16:23:54 <ln> Rubidium: no idea actually, could imagine it would cause an error about missing symbol at runtime.
16:24:53 <Rubidium> I can really imagine undefined behaviour, especially segfaults
16:25:14 <Rubidium> ofcourse that doesn't prove a thing
16:25:32 <Eddi|zuHause> we might be psychic, but this is definitely not a support channel :p
16:27:02 <hylje> arguably since it's a known fact that people don't actually read topics
16:28:15 <Rubidium> hmm, Pikka doesn't belong to people? Then what is he?
16:28:57 <peter1138> How do other software suppliers deal with different OS X versions?
16:29:20 <FauxFaux> Not providing binaries for osx, ime.
16:29:20 <hylje> Rubidium: well duh we used our awesome psychic powers to convey him that message!
16:29:31 <ln> peter1138: some drop support for 10.3.
16:29:33 <Rubidium> write a ginourmous abstraction layer?
16:30:02 <planetmaker> [17:58] <glx> dih: it's impossible to make a working 10.5 intel <-- but there a number of people who successfully compile it on Leopard :) Crosscompiling might be tricky, though
16:30:30 <glx> planetmaker: [17:58:39] <+glx> (without a real mac)
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16:33:43 <planetmaker> [18:05] <Rubidium> fine, then we'll remove 10.3 and 10.5 from the "officially" supported versions of OSX <--- hm. 10.5 would be a shame (though I still run 10.4 :P )
16:34:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the console command "patch" needs to be renamed
16:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "set" and "list_settings"
16:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and we need support for "set name=value"
16:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i too often fell in that trap already ;)
16:37:40 <yorick> and we need support for a better console
16:39:06 * Rubidium knows a version of embedded python to use
16:39:20 <Eddi|zuHause> embed brainfuck ;)
16:40:14 <hylje> give it an (simple?) object which represents settings, maybe on several levels
16:40:30 <hylje> make it introspectable and magically get documents from somewhere
16:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> now i know! embed XML!
16:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause> then everybody can understand it!
16:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> because it is human readable!
16:41:56 <hylje> for bonus points allow changing everything (through ctypes?), provide a simple scripting support (with e.g. scheduled callbacks)
16:46:11 <planetmaker> oh, and add a therapist like emacs has... :P
16:53:34 * planetmaker proposes to start supporting emacs as OS for OpenTTD :P
17:00:28 * Belugas proposes planetmaker as the porter and maintener of that OS
17:01:22 <dih> Belugas, you must be out of your mind
17:01:29 <dih> we need him and his time for wwottdgd
17:02:24 <yorick> well, I need his time, you need him :-p
17:02:37 <dih> you need everybodies time!
17:02:44 <dih> or at least you consume it :-P
17:02:53 <yorick> yes, so I can use his too
17:03:50 <Ammler> hehe, planetmaker the nighly build maintainer...
17:04:46 <Ammler> seriously can't you use a macserver for that?
17:04:57 * yorick ponders making some time to get the python bot working as a proxy so an infinite number of people can join with unpatched versions
17:05:30 <dih> Ammler, if they had a mac server, they would us it
17:06:52 <yorick> but they keep saying I'm doing it the wrong way
17:08:09 <Ammler> well, then planetmaker needs to let his mac run allday :-P
17:08:11 <Rubidium> Ammler: any idea how much a simple mac server costs?
17:08:44 <Ammler> Rubidium: I thought more of someone who has already one.
17:09:01 <Ammler> and could run a side job all night...
17:09:27 <dih> no - 2000 CEST Ammler, not all night
17:09:45 <Rubidium> we don't want to have any time limitations for using the compile farm
17:10:21 <dih> i was more making a point of all build being done at the same time
17:10:50 <dih> Rubidium, why not buy a second hand mac mini
17:11:10 <Rubidium> very expensive to place that in a DC
17:11:44 <Ammler> well, it could run at home, does only need to make the build and upload it once...
17:11:57 <Ammler> but very unstable, I fear.
17:12:14 <Rubidium> we do not like unstable connections
17:12:32 <Rubidium> .hu <-> .nl was already unstable enough
17:12:33 <Ammler> I see, the reason for the new server :-)
17:12:40 <dih> Rubidium, perhaps there might be some possibility elsewhere
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17:21:30 <Rubidium> and you can install a whole development environment on that?
17:22:18 <Ammler> ssh access..., can that be limited?
17:22:45 <Ammler> well, was just an example, you would need for donating first...
17:23:30 <Ammler> a well english writer should write a nice email to some mac hoster and ask for it :-)
17:23:54 <ln> Ammler: do you know how to install dev tools or other things through an ssh connection?
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17:24:56 <Ammler> ln: mac users will, I don't need to :P
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17:26:13 <Rubidium> and I wonder whether 1000 MB is enough for OSX's development toolchain
17:27:36 <Ammler> well, if you ask for a hosting, you should of course tell them, what you need, I assume, they know what is needed...
17:28:17 <ln> a lot more than 1000 MB is needed at least temporarily.
17:30:28 <Rubidium> not to mention a few hundred MB for temporary files during the compile
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17:32:29 <ln> the downloadable installation image of devtools is more than 900 MB.
17:37:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you also need a few MB for an svn checkout...
17:40:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r14282 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
17:40:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-09-09 17:38:39
17:40:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed, 7 changed by Hadez (7), joeprusa (1)
17:40:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 61 fixed, 6 changed by ThomasA (28), MiR (39)
17:40:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 6 fixed by habell (5), webfreakz (1)
17:40:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: estonian - 1 fixed by kristjans (1)
17:40:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 66 fixed by habazi (66)
17:40:48 <ln> interesting, a swede speaking german on the news.
17:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause> baaah... someone should teach me to not open a post titled "Visual Basic 6.0"
17:42:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r14283 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2281](r14175): beep only after clicking on the main toolbar, not after finishing the selection
17:44:33 <peter1138> I can host a MacMini if someone can find one :p
17:45:17 <qkr> how do I use the new advanced signals? is there a guide?
17:45:48 <peter1138> Place them where a train should wait.
17:48:36 <SmatZ> hmm I wonder why oneway PBS are not used in that example
17:49:10 <peter1138> Because they're generally not needed.
17:51:07 <SmatZ> but right :) there aren't needed
17:51:20 <qkr> can I use advanced signal where I before used pre- and exit-signals? like when 1 track splits into 2
17:51:36 <peter1138> 'generally not needed' does not mean 'never needed'
17:52:31 <SmatZ> qkr: many people build PBS even in this case, when it is not needed... you waste more CPU power this way
17:53:29 <qkr> I have enough cpu power for openttd, that's not a prob
17:54:28 <peter1138> Splitting 1 into 2 with PBS does actually have a use.
17:54:48 <peter1138> A train following another can proceed earlier.
17:54:55 <Zuu> qkr: depends on how big you want to go. Going big big big, will make you reach the limit of what your computer can do.
17:56:27 <SmatZ> peter1138: it matters only in cases when you have signal every tile on your lane so trains can be so near each other... (and of course if the network is jammed,)
17:56:51 <peter1138> I find it far simpler just to place PBS signals everywhere.
17:59:18 <Eddi|zuHause> <qkr> can I use advanced signal where I before used pre- and exit-signals? like when 1 track splits into 2 <- most of the time, put a one-way signal where you previously put a pre-signal, put no signal, where you previously put an exit-signal, and put normal signals everywhere else
18:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> where "normal" means "PBS" signal
18:01:46 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and "no" signal means "backwards" signal, when the signal was twoway
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18:30:34 <SmatZ> tadaaaam :) after a lot of work done on YAPP, michi_cc is another person with commit rights ;-) congratulations :-)
18:31:26 <hylje> the developers! they're multiplying!
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18:35:32 <Sacro> hylje: we keep losing them
18:35:45 <Sacro> like DarkVater, Celester, Bjarni, TrueLight, KUDr
18:37:12 <Noldo> I thought Celestar has been quite active lately
18:37:36 <Wolf01> congratulations michi_cc
18:39:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: The list should be a lot longer...
18:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause> like Tron, or ludde
18:39:34 <Ammler> and half can be removed :P
18:40:40 <hylje> in short Sacro fails miserably as usual
18:43:24 <planetmaker> Hey, congratulations michi_cc :)
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18:45:28 <Zuu> Congratulations to michi_cc from me too. :)
18:46:33 <Ammler> cratulation michi_cc, now you can fix the reversing troubles ;-)
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18:48:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14284 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13958): Trains would not look ahead and extend their reservation on a waypoint tile in all cases.
18:48:08 <Belugas> Ammler, you want to scare him away?
18:48:18 <Belugas> congrats to michi_cc :)
18:48:27 <Belugas> you see what GODO work can lead to ?
18:48:28 <SmatZ> congrats michi_cc, clap clap clap :)
18:48:45 <Ammler> I hope not, he just explained, it is not a YAPP issue :-)
18:49:32 <Forked> michi_cc: Keep up the good work =)
18:52:12 <Vikthor> congratulations from me too michi_cc
18:53:02 <Ammler> what does a power station need to disapear?
18:53:17 <SmatZ> Ammler: magic dynamite cheat
18:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> in TT original, power stations and forests never disappeared
18:55:51 <Ammler> but could considered as bug, or was it intendend?
18:56:03 <welshdragon> maybe it might be good to have older power stations demolished after a time, and new ones built?
18:56:12 <frosch123> Ammler: set property 0B to something non-zero
18:56:57 <frosch123> same applies to both banks and water towers
18:56:59 <Ammler> frosch123: I speak about default (non-newgrf) industries
18:57:18 <frosch123> what is the difference ?
18:57:55 <frosch123> the default value of property 0B is 0 for those four industries
18:58:55 <SmatZ> it was designed this way
18:59:06 <SmatZ> default value = value of original industry
19:00:04 <SmatZ> any NewGRF may override this value...
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19:01:47 <Ammler> the problem is, because we have a long starting phase, players tend to produce scenarios with many industries so there are some left until the main game begins.
19:02:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14285 /trunk/src/ (train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_func.h): -Fix [FS#2263]: A train inside a wormhole could free the reservation of another train inside the wormhole.
19:04:03 <Ammler> wormhole=bridge/tunnel?
19:05:27 <Zuu> I think depots might be concidered wormwholes too, but I'm not sure when it comes to code.
19:05:57 <Zuu> But brigdes and tunnels are wormholes.
19:07:33 <Ammler> might it be that powerstations need to have property 0 because if they don't produce something?
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19:09:46 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: forest has 2
19:09:57 <Zuu> Or it was to diferentate the industries and make some easier than other.
19:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: it was probably changed in TTD
19:10:33 <frosch123> Ammler: temperate bank has 0 and produces something
19:11:00 <frosch123> but hey do no change production IIRC
19:12:08 <Ammler> frosch123: but production is very low for banks
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19:16:47 <Belugas> [14:56] <Ammler> frosch123: I speak about default (non-newgrf) industries <--- industry properties will not change. they are as they are and will remain as such. This makes it so that newgrf compliance is enforced and maintained
19:17:34 <Ammler> Belugas: I know and agree, I was wondering if there is a reason.
19:17:44 <Belugas> now you have the reason :)
19:17:58 <peter1138> The reason is; that's how it is.
19:18:08 <Ammler> well, but not from you :-)
19:18:15 <Belugas> we did not worked our butt for so long on newinduistries to change bhaviours/values by no-newgrf
19:18:57 <Belugas> apart from maybe doing funy stuff like adding more acceptance/production cargos ...
19:19:41 <Ammler> me is just wondering, if I or someone would make a grf with that property >0, would that have a bad side effect?
19:20:40 <Ammler> as disapearing PowerStations, whcih are serviced with coal.
19:20:50 <peter1138> Well, you can try it.
19:21:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14286 /trunk/src/yapf/ (yapf_node_rail.hpp yapf_rail.cpp): -Fix [FS#2265]: If a change of conventional/electric rail coincided with the start of a station platform, stale reservations could be left behind.
19:23:34 <Belugas> Ammler, it will not crash the game for sure.
19:23:52 <Belugas> it will just have different behaviour that waht you are accustomed to
19:24:10 <Belugas> as peter1138 said, try it and you will see
19:24:10 <frosch123> [21:25] <Belugas> Ammler, it will not crash the game for sure. <- never promise such things :)
19:24:24 <SmatZ> frosch123: exactly my thoguhts ;)
19:24:24 <Ammler> like pikkas town grf :-P
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19:45:16 <ln> Rubidium: i was told by someone who codes with Cocoa for living that calling a method with unknown arguments would result in a runtime exception.
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19:56:33 * Belugas shakes his head in disbelief
19:59:59 <ln> see, for italian "" is not "".
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20:18:07 <nicfer> one question, does work opengrf.obg in 0.6.2?
20:18:54 <nicfer> the only solution for it is renaming files right?
20:20:52 <Ammler> and ignore the "corrupt" messages about...
20:22:47 <peter1138> "does opengrf.obg work" ...
20:22:50 <stillunknown> Noldo: the music player?
20:23:03 <Noldo> stillunknown: the forum user
20:23:06 <peter1138> One day, you'll all speak English properly... WHEN I RULE THE EARTH, MUWAHAHAHAHA
20:23:47 <Ammler> peter1138: I am thankful for that, really.
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20:28:43 <TrueBrain> I wonder if peter1138 forgot his pill today ..
20:31:41 <Belugas> naaa... he stole mine!
20:35:16 <nckomodo> <@peter1138> One day, you'll all speak English properly... WHEN I RULE THE EARTH, MUWAHAHAHAHA
20:35:28 <nckomodo> You'd better get cracking, LHC switches on tomorrow
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20:39:16 <peter1138> nckomodo, I'm counting on the LHC to create the alternate universe where I am the ruler.
20:39:19 <Rubidium> it's already "on" for a very long time...
20:39:25 <FauxFaux> My highly reliable source of some guy saying it doesn't says otheriwse!
20:40:49 <nckomodo> "Seamen Willstain"'s comment
20:40:56 <nckomodo> hell, his name alone is worth a laugh
20:41:00 <Belugas> alternate universe? alternate reality? I'm IN!
20:41:05 <nckomodo> possibly a laugh n a half
20:41:17 <ln> peter1138: a ruler with centimeters or inches?
20:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: one with less realism?
20:41:42 <Rubidium> with centipeters ofcourse!
20:42:15 <peter1138> Don't they have both still?
20:42:39 <Belugas> one that has less work@work for sure! none at all woulod be even better!
20:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i think one of mine had
20:47:23 <dih> Eddi|zuHause: where did you get "Fahrstraßensignale" from?
20:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: from the old PBS patch, i think
20:50:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it's exactly what a PBS signal does, it forces the switches into position, so that a train cannot alter its route, plus some additional stuff to make sure that other trains cannot cross this path
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20:51:31 <jinxjinxsen> what is the default startdate for a ottd game?
20:52:10 <Zuu> for "normal" climate at least.
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20:53:21 <jinxjinxsen> the first vehicle is created in the year 1925 right?
20:54:38 <jinxjinxsen> so why is it possible to start a game in 1600 or something else below 1925?
20:55:04 <Rubidium> because one can write graphics replacements with vehicles for said ages
20:55:08 <Zuu> I don't know, I think it depends on climate, what the first vehicle is. But you need to be close to 1950 unless you use some newGRFs with newer vehicles.
20:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause> because newgrf sets can provide vehicles for that time
20:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> some newgrf sets provide horse carriages, or sailboats
20:56:54 <jinxjinxsen> for a default ottd game without additional newgrf sets the default startdate should be 1925? :)
21:00:00 <TrueBrain> hmm.. the good old days
21:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> in "the good old days", games began in 1930
21:00:57 <TrueBrain> no, that version as not good
21:01:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but there were more early engines
21:02:32 <TrueBrain> now I want a good movie to watch
21:03:48 *** welshdragon2 is now known as welshdragon
21:04:12 <Rubidium> not the one with supplemental Japanese subtitles
21:04:31 <Zuu> Try some sign language movies at youtube :)
21:04:44 <TrueBrain> you should watch the movies about 'the end of the world'
21:04:50 <TrueBrain> tomorrow the new thing in CERN startsup
21:04:59 <TrueBrain> and 'many' people are protesting AGAIN that it will mean the end of the world
21:05:07 <TrueBrain> (their search for the Higgs particle, that is)
21:05:15 <TrueBrain> possible tiny blackholes will be created
21:05:26 <TrueBrain> which WILL SLURP THE EARTH INTO IT, AND WE ALL DIE!
21:05:28 <Rubidium> too bad the protesters logic is flawed
21:05:45 <TrueBrain> even more if they say: If you destroy the earth, I I I .. .I KILL YOU!
21:05:49 <Rubidium> the first run, i.e. the one tomorrow, will have less force than the ones conducted up till now
21:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the world will really end this way!
21:06:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the ones up till now were not protons ;)
21:06:05 <Rubidium> the run in a month will be at full speed/energy
21:06:21 <TrueBrain> (well, for CERN that is :p)
21:06:38 <TrueBrain> if they abort a run, protons of high energy are ejected in a big block of lead
21:06:49 <TrueBrain> which instant becomes radioactive (I still hope it becomes gold, but that is impossible, they told me :()
21:06:54 <TrueBrain> now they also complain about that ..
21:07:03 <TrueBrain> but the leaks in the France reactors of last month, that is all okay ...
21:07:23 <TrueBrain> and the worst: people are going to court to stop CERN from doing the trail ...
21:08:01 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: ps: at full speed they won't be for a long time ;) They start with low energies, and will increase the energy to higher and higher levels over time .. will take a few months ;)
21:08:09 <TrueBrain> but I get what you mean :)
21:08:29 <ln> at what time does it start?
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21:09:07 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and if the world would end this way, at least it will be quick
21:09:40 <Rubidium> a well, in a month they expect to be doing "high energy" collisions
21:09:51 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that is better phrased, yes :)
21:10:06 <TrueBrain> as long as they don't loose vacuum, it should go pretty rapidly
21:11:30 *** FauxFaux was kicked by DorpsGek (never do that again)
21:11:52 <Rubidium> did I miss something?
21:13:59 <welshdragon> indeed, that link was bad
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21:16:08 <TrueBrain> What happens If i were in the CERN TUnnel during the particle flows and collisions?
21:16:08 <TrueBrain> 1. What happens if i were to stand in the 27km tunnel of CERN while the PROTONS are being fired in 1 direction?
21:16:08 <TrueBrain> 2. What happens if i were standing in the 27km tunnel of CERN while protons were being fired in both directION?
21:16:08 <TrueBrain> What would happen to me?
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21:16:43 <TrueBrain> inside the tube: YOU DIE (vacuum)
21:16:48 <TrueBrain> well, you don't fit in the tube, but okay
21:16:58 <TrueBrain> in the tunnels ... you don't want to know :p
21:17:06 *** Zuu is now known as Guest6125
21:18:47 <Rubidium> it's pretty chilly in the tunnels I reckon
21:19:02 <TrueBrain> enough helium to cool your brains, yes yes :p
21:19:25 <eekee> other particle accelerators had tunnels accessible for maintainance
21:19:27 <TrueBrain> but the tubes itself are only 1.9K
21:19:34 <TrueBrain> so the tunnel should be slightly hotter :p
21:19:38 <TrueBrain> eekee: only when offline ;)
21:20:02 <TrueBrain> when a supercondocter breaks, they shut down the thing, and someone is sent to repair it ;)
21:20:09 <TrueBrain> (byebye vacuum .. hello 1 week waiting time :p)
21:20:28 <Rubidium> I read something much longer somewhere else
21:20:32 <TrueBrain> dependng on the tube
21:20:40 <TrueBrain> CERN LHC is 3 weeks or something?
21:20:43 <TrueBrain> well, in that order :p
21:20:51 <Rubidium> they had to slowly bring it back to "room" temperature and such
21:21:22 <TrueBrain> but okay, if we don't speak again after 0730 UTC, ... there was a blackhole who slurped the earth ;)
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21:23:24 <SpComb> hmm, they do the next test at 0730 UTC?
21:23:46 <SpComb> time to blow your life savings on hookers and poker
21:23:57 *** welshdragon2 is now known as welshdragon
21:24:07 <TrueBrain> and then nothing happens ;)
21:24:15 <welshdragon> SpComb, no, hookers and blackjack
21:25:35 <eekee> I was wonderng what I would spend my life savings on. I couldn't decide, but then I don't have any life savings so...
21:26:02 <eekee> actually there's always the theft option. I'd steal a supercar
21:26:23 <Eddi|zuHause> when was the last apocalypse?
21:26:40 <TrueBrain> 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004 ... which one do you want? :p
21:26:41 <dih> what is STR_01D8_EZY_STREET
21:26:47 <TrueBrain> (all related to NEW YEAR 'events')
21:27:15 <TrueBrain> weren't there a bunch of people 'rescued' from a cave, as they were hiding there for the end of time .. October this year?
21:27:25 <ln> all systems failed, the earth was without electricity for months
21:27:54 <dih> "Ezy Street" have no idea what to do with that! :-S
21:28:35 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Yea, I remember that cave too.
21:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: it's in the music player
21:30:10 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: it's one of the playlist presets
21:32:16 <ln> i wants a tv that can sync to 60 hz
21:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't NTSC 60Hz?
21:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> probably need a 60Hz power supply to do that properly ;)
21:34:33 <eekee> erm, multi-sync TVs have been common for a long time now, at least in Britain
21:36:54 <TrueBrain> "The NTSC field refresh frequency was originally exactly 60 Hz in the black-and-white system, chosen because it matched the nominal 60 Hz frequency of alternating current power used in the United States."
21:37:26 <eekee> syncing to the power supply hasn't been necessary for years
21:37:45 <TrueBrain> eekee: neither are black and white systems still widely available ;)
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21:38:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't had a TV in years now...
21:39:14 <SpComb> I haven't had a non-mobile phone for three years
21:39:17 <TrueBrain> Jerimiah40: please stop timing out :p
21:39:27 <TrueBrain> SpComb: me neither :p
21:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a 22" TFT, that must suffice for a while ;)
21:39:42 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: many many PAL TVs can sync to 60 Hz, but not mine. and it isn't even directly related to how expensive the tv has been originally, even cheap ones can be capable.
21:39:51 * SpComb still only has two 19" TFTs
21:39:55 <eekee> I haven't had a non-mobile phone in over 10 years, and... nope, I've never had a TV
21:39:58 <TrueBrain> I have a computer with 2 17" screens ... I either want 2 19", or 3 17" .. not sure yet ..
21:40:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no use for a phone...
21:40:21 <SpComb> I need to upgrade to 24" + 19" or something at some point
21:40:28 <Eddi|zuHause> mobile or not...
21:40:45 <eekee> I have 1 17" and 1 20". Have tried to get a 15" working with them, but no joy
21:40:49 <SpComb> people tend to usually call me, rather than the other way around
21:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i hate asymmetry
21:41:27 <TrueBrain> <!-- if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated
21:41:27 <TrueBrain> please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund -->
21:41:41 <SpComb> it uses an interesting metric to determine that
21:41:53 <SpComb> if (!(typeof worldHasEnded == "undefined")) {
21:41:53 <SpComb> document.write("YUP.");
21:42:35 <eekee> I have different uses for different monitors. The 20" is my game & work space, & the 17" currently does chat & a few TTYS. I want to move chat to the 15" and use the 17" for web browsing & documentation
21:43:29 <ln> everyone started telling how many inch they are after i only mentioned TV.
21:44:11 <TrueBrain> why do people use youtube to just show you big pages of TEXT
21:44:34 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: the timer seems wrong :p
21:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: are they at least photographed on a wooden table?
21:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: yeah, looks strange
21:44:59 <ln> Eddi|zuHause: "01 DAYS, 11 HOURS"??
21:45:11 <TrueBrain> I think he was confused with the WTC :p
21:45:13 <SpComb> huh, I thought it was tomorrow morning
21:45:24 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they're counting the second run ;)
21:45:58 * dih likes seeing TrueBrain in this channel ;-)
21:46:27 <ln> the thing is i can't play Super Mario Lost Levels because my TV doesn't support 60 Hz. not funny.
21:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause> "documentation"?? what is that?
21:46:42 <TrueBrain> second run takes a while longer ;)
21:46:51 <TrueBrain> but okay, some random date after the initial start .. :p
21:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> I think he was confused with the WTC :p <- but that was at 13 UTC, i think
21:48:18 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: 9/11?
21:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i seem to remember it was 15 o'clock local time
21:48:26 <TrueBrain> who cares about the time :p
21:48:36 <TrueBrain> (sorry, misread you initially)
21:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> which i know because i wanted to watch star trek
21:50:04 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: how would thing go?
21:50:45 <peter1138> . o O ( Why are you Europeans measuring monitor size in inches... )
21:51:15 <glx> only monitors, TVs are in centimeters
21:51:20 <TrueBrain> peter1138: because I wanted it to make it easy for you
21:51:29 <TrueBrain> glx: monitors here are mixed, both inch and centimers
21:51:53 * TrueBrain stops posting youtube links ;)
21:52:00 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: more like: BOOM, SLURP
21:52:26 <TrueBrain> anyway, I do hope a tiny blackhole is created
21:52:30 <TrueBrain> would be nice if they can detect it
21:52:37 <TrueBrain> finally puts that theory to a proven state :)
21:52:55 <TrueBrain> (and a blackhole of that size is completely harmless :))
21:53:01 <SmatZ> "We have proven our theeeooorrrryyyyyyyyy".... SLURP!
21:53:09 <TrueBrain> the front of a train is more harmful ;)
21:53:16 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: lol, would be cool, yes ;)
21:53:40 <SmatZ> right, tiny blackholes appear and disappear everywhere (theory which name in English I don't know, but it is a solid one theory)
21:53:52 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: String-theory ;)
21:53:57 <TrueBrain> which ever one you favor :p
21:54:03 <TrueBrain> (10 or 11, you name it :p)
21:54:16 <TrueBrain> but this means we would CREATE them, which is slightly different ;)
21:54:53 <TrueBrain> people worry about very silly things
21:55:09 <TrueBrain> nobody cares if we freeze a particle to close to 0 K
21:55:12 <peter1138> Like, shit, it's bed time...
21:55:16 <TrueBrain> (which theories state, if that happens, shit happens too)
21:55:21 <TrueBrain> peter1138: enjoy your bed ;)
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21:57:25 <TrueBrain> "Donkey Xote", is it me, or does it sound boring?
21:58:22 <TrueBrain> I-See-You.com <- that is a cool movie :)
21:58:37 <TrueBrain> (and yes, that is the NAME of the movie, not their website (well, possible it is, but I wouldn't know)
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22:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> . o O ( Why are you Europeans measuring monitor size in inches... ) <- we don't, we measure them in "Zoll" ;)
22:00:38 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: one zoll, 2 zoll, 3 troll?
22:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, something like this ;)
22:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> interestingly, measuring sticks here are called "Zollstock", even though they didn't have a "Zoll" scale in decades...
22:02:35 <TrueBrain> "duimstok", same problem
22:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what does that have to do with "Daumen" (thumb)?
22:03:09 <TrueBrain> thumb-stick, freely translated
22:03:13 <eekee> yardstick, only yards have only just falen out of favour
22:03:16 <TrueBrain> but 'thumb' as messurement ;)
22:03:39 <DaleStan> The original inch was the length of some portion of the king's thumb.
22:04:03 <TrueBrain> ('duim' is dutch for 'inch' I believe)
22:04:56 <TrueBrain> I like 'centimeter' :)
22:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> there were at least as many measuring units in germany as there were individual states...
22:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> which were up to 200 at one point :p
22:05:18 <ln> wasn't the original inch something like four grains of wheat placed next to each other.
22:05:33 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and you know them all? :)
22:05:35 <DaleStan> Only if the king wasn't available.
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22:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> "(Revision 7886)" ... i didn't even know i have that ancient patches around...
22:31:46 <SmatZ> what does the patch do?
22:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause> change catchment area depending on station size
22:32:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like 3 lines ;)
22:55:20 <TrueBrain> the world comes to an end?
22:57:30 <eekee> damn. When's it going to end then?
22:58:01 <SpComb> according to the slashdot summary, it's between 09:00 and 18:00
22:58:09 <SpComb> although I can't figure out any reference for that
22:59:11 <TrueBrain> well, 7 hours remaining till the start-up ..
23:00:19 <SpComb> but the cern page says that it'll be at 09:30
23:00:31 <TrueBrain> SpComb: checktime-zone ;)
23:00:46 <SpComb> "The first injection of a beam is scheduled for 9:30 CET"
23:01:10 <TrueBrain> CET ... that is +0100
23:01:14 <TrueBrain> short: somewhere tomorrow :p
23:01:28 <ln> CET during summer is +0200
23:02:22 <SpComb> since we're talking about the end of the world, they really should give times in UTC
23:02:34 <SpComb> I mean, it's probably not going to be some kind of localized event
23:02:58 <TrueBrain> I doubt they can give it an exact time :p
23:03:04 <SmatZ> great, I will be sleeping by that time
23:03:10 <SmatZ> I think it is fine to die while sleeping
23:03:15 <TrueBrain> talk to you tomorrow ;)
23:03:28 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: No, due to relativistic effects it'll be all times.
23:03:37 <TrueBrain> lol @ Prof_Frink :)
23:04:13 <SmatZ> it will never happen :-P
23:06:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:08:44 <glx> no collision planed for tomorrow
23:10:03 * SmatZ plans to enjoy (possibly) last 4 weeks of his life
23:10:07 <TrueBrain> glx: now I won't sleep for the next 4 weeks :(
23:10:38 <SmatZ> hmm leave school, build a house, plant a tree, give birth a child...
23:11:57 <TrueBrain> well, you would be able to give birth to a child
23:12:01 <TrueBrain> if you would help a female
23:12:05 <TrueBrain> I doubt you can do it yourself :p
23:12:26 <SmatZ> but ...6 mounths at least
23:12:35 <TrueBrain> and in 4 weeks you can try to make one like 56 times :p
23:12:47 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: just go to any hospital and help a random female giving birth to a child
23:12:50 <TrueBrain> can be done in 12 hours :p
23:13:02 <SmatZ> if she hasn't been pregnant for 5 months already, what I doubt
23:16:10 <TrueBrain> whoho, I have a running Darwin8 install
23:16:14 <TrueBrain> no good what that does ..
23:17:09 <TrueBrain> bypassing the root login on Darwin8 is WAY too easy ...
23:17:27 <TrueBrain> (F8 on bootup, -s, wait till it is done, 'sh /etc/rc', and you are done ...)
23:17:57 <TrueBrain> maybe I should try to make an OSX binary now ..
23:17:57 <eekee> There's a quote (iirc) in the unix hater's handbook, to the effect that the flaws of unix are offset by the sense of achievement felt in getting it to work at all
23:18:02 <TrueBrain> just no idea how ..
23:18:26 <eekee> is SDL any good on OS X?
23:18:43 <TrueBrain> network doens't work
23:19:55 <SmatZ> hmm wiki says 8.0 is 3,5 years old, 9.0 is 1 year old...
23:19:56 <eekee> If you can build for SDL on Darwin (with SDL using X), maybe it would also work when SDL is using Cocoa
23:20:00 <SmatZ> why did you install 8.0?
23:20:20 <TrueBrain> eekee: why? Isn't Cocoa in Darwin? :p
23:20:27 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: well, OS X 10.4 fails and 10.5 too
23:20:35 <TrueBrain> so ... Rubidium thought it would be cool to use Darwin
23:20:40 <TrueBrain> which after some slapping works :p
23:20:45 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: well .. in a virtual env :p
23:20:49 <TrueBrain> not really legal or anything
23:20:51 <SmatZ> I thought only 10.5 fails
23:24:00 <TrueBrain> I first need a method to get SVN into this Darwin VM ..
23:24:05 <TrueBrain> not as simple as you might hope ..
23:25:19 <eekee> what's the VM software?
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23:26:44 <eekee> ah I don't know anything about that
23:27:54 <eekee> in qemu with software networking, you could just set up networking normally & go, if you're not wanting to run any daemons
23:28:12 <TrueBrain> if only I would have networking ..
23:28:31 <TrueBrain> mount doesn't work as the linux mount .. that is annoying ..
23:31:19 <TrueBrain> so now I can make a iso with the files on it ..
23:38:38 <TrueBrain> no 'CoreServices' ...
23:38:42 <TrueBrain> the configure passed!
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23:40:56 <TrueBrain> if only I had any idea what I was doing .. ;)
23:43:25 <TrueBrain> I can produce a valid strgen
23:43:27 <TrueBrain> that is something :p
23:43:46 <TrueBrain> we need a configur eoption: --without-depcheck
23:43:54 <TrueBrain> completely useless for the compile-farm, in any and all ways
23:44:38 <eekee> it's not a normal autotools configure?
23:44:47 <TrueBrain> far far far far from it
23:44:58 <TrueBrain> you ever seen the lines: 'checking for stdlib.h ... yes'
23:45:10 <TrueBrain> autotools configure takes around 10 times longer
23:45:35 <TrueBrain> it checks EVERY aspect of your env (if it is sane and stuff)
23:45:39 <TrueBrain> well .. if a user can't set up a sane build env
23:45:41 <SmatZ> --without-makedepend won't help?
23:45:56 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: 'makedepend' is a X11 tool which in fact speeds up dep-check with a big facto
23:46:00 <TrueBrain> without it .. it is even more slow
23:46:10 <TrueBrain> for now we created a 'fake' makedepend on the compile-farms
23:46:18 <TrueBrain> echo "# DO NOT DELETE"
23:47:44 <TrueBrain> hmm .. I don't have Endian32_Swap
23:48:14 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: well that was one of stupid uestions of mine...
23:48:36 <SmatZ> --without-makedepend helps on sunos though :) it won't build without it
23:48:43 <SmatZ> because of max_open_files, you know...
23:50:05 <TrueBrain> completely different problem ;)
23:50:21 <TrueBrain> oh no, not again a dep-check .. just becaus eI changed one silly file ...
23:50:24 <TrueBrain> (of course a core-file)
23:51:49 <SmatZ> as I said, sometimes I type stupid sentences / questions, sorry :-( (I hope not too often ;)
23:52:07 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: it isn't a stupid question; you just don't know how that part of OpenTTD works .. big deal
23:52:15 <TrueBrain> glx: related ;) bitmath_func.h
23:52:33 <TrueBrain> compiling again .. at the 'm'
23:52:33 <glx> english.txt is a nice one too
23:52:44 <TrueBrain> qtmidi fails .. not unexpected
23:52:47 <TrueBrain> I miss like ALL libraries :p
23:54:38 <eekee> why would ottd need quicktime?
23:55:41 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
23:56:26 <TrueBrain> problem with Darwin, it only contains the open source parts of OSX (if I understand it correctly)
23:57:40 <eekee> on a totally different matter, sometimes with PBS I need to make a peice of track one-way without putting signals on it.
23:57:59 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: that's the problem... I (think) I know how makedepend works, but that fact doesn't me stop from asking stupid questions... just forget it :-)
23:58:23 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I 10 times rather have you asking silly questions, then you never asking them at all :p
23:58:34 <TrueBrain> now you know what makedepend does, and what --without-makedepend does :p
continue to next day ⏵
