IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-07-13
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00:16:09 <Belugas> [18:26] <Eddi|zuHause3> i vote for removing the "build vehicle" button instead of greying it out <- not a bad iread, actually :)
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00:17:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think the reason for not removing it back then was that the GUI code was not dynamic enough to handle that
00:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> i hope that has changed meanwhile ;)
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02:44:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13696 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp:
02:44:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix[GUI]: The Build button of the vehicle list is now hidden, instead of just disabled. It will be only visible when called from the Depot Building Window.
02:44:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: Less confusion, hopefully. Suggested by Eddi.
02:55:37 * Belugas goes practicing slide guitar now...
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03:16:19 <UltraNoob> can a main line be L_L_~_R_R??
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04:58:16 <k-man> how can i get trains out of a busy station more efficiently?
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06:16:42 <Celestar> how do these conditional order jumps work?
06:30:13 <Ammler> src/economy.cpp:1329: Money DeliverGoods(int, unsigned ch
06:30:13 <Ammler> nsigned char): Assertion `num_pieces > 0' failed.
06:31:48 <Ammler> Celestar: you can jump to a specific order (skip orders) due the condition you set.
06:32:37 <Ammler> like "go to drop station if you are full, else go to station x to load more."
07:06:23 <Ammler> (the assert isn't from trunk, it is from #wwottdgd)
07:11:28 <Celestar> setting up realistic train servicing is difficult
07:12:18 <ccfreak2k> Yes, that's how "realistic" things tend to work. :)
07:18:59 <hylje> fancy network you got there
07:19:08 <ccfreak2k> Is that your pickup line?
07:20:28 <ccfreak2k> Why don't you just have it say "jump to 5" and end it there?
07:20:53 <Celestar> ccfreak2k: what do you mean?
07:21:11 <Celestar> ccfreak2k: well right
07:21:15 <Celestar> that would simplyfy it :)
07:21:27 <ccfreak2k> It goes "Go to Witfingfield, go to 1, go to Witfingfield".
07:21:31 <ccfreak2k> Why bother having those last two?
07:23:07 <Celestar> because it's not yet optimized :D
07:23:47 <Ammler> how is "service" triggered?
07:24:06 <Ammler> you could also use realibility
07:25:05 <Ammler> I assume service does "just" count days, so that would be more "realistic" :-P
07:26:03 <Celestar> but normally companies have regular service intervals, and don't drive the train until it breaks down every other hour :P
07:26:44 <Celestar> and then hope it limps to the depot somehow :P
07:26:59 <Ammler> that is how service works
07:27:28 <Celestar> what is how service works?
07:27:50 <Ammler> "go to depot every 180 days"
07:28:21 <Ammler> but ususally you co also to depot if you have broken breaks after 30 days.
07:29:38 <Ammler> and that is how realibility works, it shows you, if something randomly broken.
07:30:28 <Ammler> maybe you can use both :-)
07:31:13 <Ammler> (goto depot if service or realibiltiy < 60%)
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07:54:04 <de_ghosty> i had a train break down on me in gb
07:54:12 <de_ghosty> we lost an engin lol
07:54:41 <Celestar> well trains DO break down
07:55:28 <hylje> usually pretty rarely, but when it happens stuff is fucked up
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09:52:43 <Celestar> :o there is an opengl blitter?
09:54:56 <peter1138> My one and this other one.
09:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause4> yes, by TiberiusTeng or something
09:57:41 <ln> and a third one by phaser, last updated in 2003.
09:58:20 <peter1138> Technically that wouldn't be using the blitter system...
10:14:20 <Rexxie> does the GPU actually handle blitters in OTTD? (this coming from an uneducated person.. :p)
10:20:16 <peter1138> The blitter talks to the GPU (usually via layers such as SDL or GDI, though)
10:37:04 <Rexxie> is there a reason why signals on bridges/in tunnels is now supported? and patches are discontinued?
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10:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause4> i didn't understand the question either
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11:05:13 <Rexxie> wow, I must still be asleep
11:05:50 <Rexxie> *is there a reason why signals on bridges/in tunnels is not possible? and the patches that tried to implement this functionality are discontinued?
11:07:07 <Eddi|zuHause4> are you referring to a specific patch?
11:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause4> i am fairly certain this feature is still under development
11:07:59 <Eddi|zuHause4> but it's a very difficult feature
11:11:37 <Rexxie> that looks mad impressive
11:11:42 * eekee would be really really happy with that ^^
11:12:07 <Eddi|zuHause4> i wouldn't expect that feature to hit trunk in the next year :p
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13:23:56 <Rexxie> what are the main factors that make a town grow?
13:27:08 <Doorslammer|BRSet> And concrete
13:27:20 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Not mutually together of course
13:27:25 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Thats just wrong
13:28:24 * Doorslammer|BRSet imagines the day when Sex is put into ECS
13:29:48 <SpComb> I guess OpenTTD's demographic model doesn't go down to that level of detail, though
13:32:36 <Rexxie> Go to RexxCity Docks (Full load Sex)
13:32:38 <Rexxie> Go to RexxCity Central (Transfer and leave empty)
13:33:40 <Rexxie> I wonder how the transfer rate on sex would be... squares/days
13:33:41 <frosch123> You can already drive a vehicle into a depot and press 'clone'.
13:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause4> "mommy, mommy, where do the little vehicles come from?"
13:34:44 * frosch123 thinks of the amount of vehicles a depot can handle at once.
13:34:49 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Ask your Hereford, dear
13:42:57 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Butterbridge Vaseline Refinery (Production: 1.643 boxes of goods/month)
13:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause4> "neutrally packaged boxes"
13:51:44 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Wellpool Brothel increases production by 23%!
13:52:30 <Doorslammer|BRSet> But the big question remains...
13:52:40 <Doorslammer|BRSet> How do you transport Sex?
13:52:49 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Livestock wagon?
13:59:00 <ln> what is the PEGI rating for OpenTTD?
13:59:11 <Sacro> it does have crashes...
13:59:39 <Sacro> but the PEGI rating doesn't apply here
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14:02:50 <ln> 7+: "Does the game contain: Depictions of implied violence to humans where the actual violence (death or injury) is not shown"
14:03:04 <ln> "This is where you do not actually see any violence to humans but it is obvious what is happening. It covers such matters as the bombing of a city where you know civilians are killed and injured, blowing up a tank or shooting down a plane where you know the crew are killed, smashing into cars or other vehicles where the driver/passenger must be injured."
14:06:29 <Eddi|zuHause4> you honestly want to put a 6 year old child in front of TTD?
14:06:57 <Eddi|zuHause4> the complexity of the game far outweighs the amount of "violence" shown :p
14:08:25 <ln> Sacro: yeah, and the 100% mortality in accidents.
14:09:47 <Rubidium> don't forget the gambling
14:09:58 <Rubidium> (when you bribe a town)
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14:18:10 <ln> a requirement for 12+ is: "The game must actually teach the player how to gamble or bet and/or encourage the player to want to gamble or bet for money in real life. For example this will include games that teach the player how to play card games that are usually played for money or how to play the odds in horse racing."
14:23:48 <Rubidium> it all depends on how you interpret the guidelines; you could even give OTTD a 18+
14:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause4> yeah, if LV4 in the uncensored version is loaded :p
14:57:41 <Pikita> I DEMAND! DIAGONAL ROADS!
14:58:21 <Pikita> to make better road junctions!
14:58:56 <hylje> how about also one-lane one-way roads and stuff?!
14:59:30 <Ammler> current railtraffic is more like roadtraffic in rw
14:59:44 <Pikita> I want to make an entire road network
14:59:48 <Pikita> but the roads suck atm
14:59:53 <Ammler> at least what we build it at coop
15:00:19 <Pikita> Ammler with new roads we should do a network only using roads haha
15:02:00 <hylje> roads just need a great pathfinder (that doesn't particularly care about single vehicles)
15:02:09 <hylje> and magically more bits for map array
15:02:31 <Wolf01> without increasing savegame size
15:03:14 <hylje> the problem with road vehicles is mostly that there'll be a lot of them
15:03:30 <Pikita> road vehicles re fun though
15:03:41 <Pikita> especially if you made a great road network
15:04:09 <Pikita> now doe anyone have a save game copy of the Mega Rail Scenario from TTD
15:04:29 <Wolf01> I want a fully working daylength without bugs
15:04:33 <hylje> it'd be even more fun given private (town-generated) traffic :-)
15:05:18 <Pikita> getting cars using your roads
15:05:23 <hylje> (then we'd have a strange amalgation of ttd and simcity)
15:05:32 <Pikita> and you could set up toll booths on your roads
15:06:00 <Pikita> and it would create traffic meaning road vehicles would be slowd
15:06:18 <Pikita> but then they would have to be made more cost effective to keep them as a viable option
15:07:41 <hylje> that'd also involve towns and other AI entities building a basic road network
15:08:34 <hylje> because there'd be traffic from non-player entities
15:08:42 <hylje> players cant be expected to do it all
15:11:17 <Pikita> but i think it would improve TTD alot
15:17:09 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Don't call us, we'll call you ;)
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16:03:27 <frosch123> hmm, why am I not married to Eva Hermann ?
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16:05:40 <frosch123> She could iron my business shirts.
16:05:57 <Rubidium> isn't someone of 108 a little too old for you?
16:06:27 <frosch123> Hmm, then "Eva Hermann" is not a unique name.
16:07:05 <Forked> still 50 is also fairly old.. by internet standards ;)
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16:10:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r13697 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Feature: Add some support for symbolic links in .tar files.
16:15:43 <hylje> reimplementing GNU tar?
16:17:09 <frosch123> You can put data files for OTTD in uncompressed .tar files. Very useful for 32bpp replacements with hundreds of .png files.
16:19:51 <SpComb> hylje: yes, doesn't look like the code uses any library
16:20:33 <frosch123> I doubt that there is any library available that does what we need.
16:21:01 <frosch123> I.e. find the offset and size of a certain file in a .tar file without extracting it.
16:27:13 <SpComb> the .tar format's a pretty silly format if no proper libraries exist for it
16:27:24 <SpComb> libtar looks somewhat ancient
16:27:55 <HMage> it's used widely in games
16:28:06 <frosch123> "uncompressed" is the most important property here
16:28:15 <HMage> make an uncompressed zip :)
16:31:58 <frosch123> Hmm, where is the main artists' information for creating .tar files? There does not seem to be anything on the wiki nor in the sticky forum topics.
16:33:30 <Rubidium> does zip support symlinks?
16:34:22 <frosch123> zip is a dos format, I doubt that
16:35:37 <Wolf01> whoa "production at xxxxxx farm increases 100%!"
16:36:00 <Wolf01> from 9 items of livestock to 18 :|
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16:38:25 <Eddi|zuHause4> Wolf01: now imagine that going on for another 63 months :p
16:38:51 <SpComb> libtar does support just reading the headers
16:39:16 <Wolf01> now imagine if that farm is serviced only by livestock trains
16:40:25 <Wolf01> how much happy are the engineers to start the trains one day early
16:40:47 <Wolf01> 150 days and 149 days aren't so different
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18:07:19 <petr> hi everyone... I have a question. I've written a histogram/average speed accounting for openttd, and I'd like the histogram window to repaint periodically. How to do it?
18:07:22 <petr> Right now I just SetWindowDirty after each repaint, which more or less works, but is a terrible cpu hog.
18:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause4> petr: look for functions called OnTick*
18:09:24 <petr> Eddi|zuHause4: ok, thanks
18:09:38 <Eddi|zuHause4> petr: in openttd.cpp there should be a function that gets called every tick, and handles date changes and stuff
18:12:03 <frosch123> IIRC windows also have a 'OnTick' method
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18:22:01 <petr> oh yeah, windows do get WE_TICK event
18:22:09 <petr> cool, that will do the trick
18:26:04 <petr> and interestingly enough it's not hogging the cpu as much even if I dirty the window on each tick ^o^
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19:44:33 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r13698 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r13697): MorphOS compilation.
19:45:47 <frosch123> * (with support from tokai)
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20:20:40 <kyevan> Man OpenTTD lags like hell in huge network games
20:20:56 <kyevan> (Though admittedly some of the fault is probably on the WWOTTDGD patches)
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22:23:12 <ln> "The Eurocopter Super Puma (originally built by Aérospatiale) is a helicopter marketed for civil and military use."
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22:26:19 <ln> anyway, the police closes the street every time that thing lands or takes off.
22:33:07 <ln> gränsbevakningsväsendet.... what a ridiculously long word.
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22:35:46 <Eddi|zuHause4> that's a long word?
22:36:49 <ln> no, but they must have chosen a helicopter model with long enough tail so the whole word fits on it.
22:37:49 <Eddi|zuHause4> what does that even mean? something to do with border patrol?
22:38:41 <ln> "[The Finnish] Border Guard" is what they seem to be using on their web page.
22:39:10 <ln> but the word is actually swedish.
22:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause4> yeah, i figured it is not finnish :p
22:39:37 <Eddi|zuHause4> it's too close to german :p
22:40:38 <ln> Rajavartiolaitos in finnish.
22:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause4> see, that is not even remotely understandable :p
22:41:45 <SpComb> Raja - vartio - laitos
22:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause4> with the other word you see the close relationship to the german word "Grenze"
22:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause4> (meaning border)
22:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause4> SpComb: no, it's not
22:44:29 <Eddi|zuHause4> with a little good faith you also recognise the word "bewachung" [meaning guard]
22:44:54 <ln> the building on the background is a hospital
22:44:56 <Eddi|zuHause4> but i can't figure out what "väsendet" is supposed to mean
22:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause4> ln: yeah, i thought that from the beginning, if you didn't point out the word, i'd have thought it's a medical helicopter
22:47:01 <ln> strangely enough, väsende(t) means something like "being" [noun], "das Wesen", according to dictionary.
22:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause4> yeah, i thought so, too, but i couldn't fit the "det" in there
22:49:01 <ln> what they mean by it must be "border guarding organization/department/institution"
22:49:32 <Pikita> has anyone got an ottd convertion of MegaRail or West Country 90211 from TTD
22:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause4> it's not uncommon to end names of institutions in -wesen
22:50:05 <Eddi|zuHause4> but it's more like abstract institutions, like "Gesundheitswesen"
22:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause4> [meaning the whole institutional system of health insurance and hospitals, no specific institution]
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