IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-07-12
⏴ go to previous day
00:32:39 *** Eddi|zuHause3 has joined #openttd
01:21:09 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
03:07:16 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex
03:43:47 *** Poopsmith has joined #openttd
05:30:27 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
06:04:13 *** Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo
06:12:02 *** grumbel has joined #openttd
06:43:34 *** einKarl has joined #openttd
07:03:24 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
07:37:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
08:22:23 *** DJNekkid has joined #openttd
08:56:07 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
09:00:06 *** KillaloT has joined #openttd
09:10:35 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
09:15:01 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
09:16:48 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
09:25:25 <Helion> [root@home Transport Tycoon Deluxe]# openttd
09:25:33 <Helion> the game doesn`t start
09:25:42 <Helion> although everything was fine yesterday
09:27:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> don't play games as root
09:28:01 <Helion> it doesn`t work using a normal user either
09:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> i didn't suggest that ;)
09:28:19 <Helion> I just tried it with root afret reinstalling
09:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> try starting with -d3
09:29:05 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
09:29:07 <Helion> seems to be working fine thank you
09:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> -d3 doesn't actually change anything... it just makes the output more verbose
09:30:12 <Alberth> "No protocol" is not in my openttd binary, must have been something else
09:30:19 *** Progman has joined #openttd
09:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> then it should run without d3
09:31:11 <Helion> Will it be easier for me to play if I set the numer of towns and industrie to very low, terrain to very flat?
09:31:28 <Helion> I`m a beginner and it is a bit hard for me to play on the huge map
09:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> depends on what you're trying to do
09:31:51 <Helion> I`m trying to get the idea of the game :)
09:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> start with transporting coal ;)
09:32:25 <Alberth> start with something small, eg 256x512 or 256x1024, with normal industries and normal towns, and flat land
09:32:29 <ccfreak2k> Seems the only winning move is not to play.
09:33:34 <Alberth> ccfreak2k: try to find the second best move :)
09:41:12 <Alberth> euhm, it is probably just me, but I've trying to find out where discussions about the Wiki take place. The Village Pump speaks of 'Talk' pages, and Users' pages and 'sign with 4 tilde characters'. Is there a meta-discussion Wiki page (a page that discusses how to do discussions)?
09:42:04 <eekee> there should be a talk link at the top of each page if it's mediawiki
09:42:31 <ccfreak2k> Yep. Each page has a talk page.
09:44:59 <Alberth> There is a 'discussion' tab, and it looks like discussion, but no 4 tildes thingies there.
09:45:27 <Alberth> Also, suppose I put up an item there? Then what, how is something decided?
09:46:48 <Alberth> In the 'history' tab there are lots of red (ie non-existing) refs to 'Talk' pages
09:48:11 <Alberth> Or can I just start writing text, shuffling pages, etc?
09:49:04 <eekee> ya click on the Talk link for a page you want to comment on, red or not
10:05:42 *** Doorslammer|BRSet has joined #openttd
10:08:18 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
10:25:11 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
10:25:21 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
10:54:35 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
10:57:40 *** Doorslammer|online has joined #openttd
11:01:17 *** Doorslammer|BRSet has quit IRC
11:02:31 *** Doorslammer|online is now known as Doorslammer|BRSet
11:16:31 *** De_Ghost has joined #openttd
12:52:30 <Celestar> hm ... how does one use this libtimidity sound driver? :P
12:57:31 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
13:00:40 *** AmixE90 has joined #openttd
13:01:35 <AmixE90> Hey. Just wonder why v0.6.1 vs nightly builds is so different?
13:01:49 <Celestar> different in what means?
13:01:59 <Celestar> the nightlies contain usually way more features
13:03:35 <frosch123> Hmm, is it documented behaviour, that feof() fails after fseek() ?
13:03:39 <AmixE90> MorphOS version of the game wont be supported because it doesnt close right, while nightly builds gets updated etc...
13:07:46 <Celestar> dunno anything about MorphOS
13:08:49 <Celestar> frosch123: "fails" in what way?
13:09:22 <Celestar> frosch123: fseek clears the EOF indicator
13:09:43 <Celestar> frosch123: that is documented
13:09:54 <frosch123> yes, that is what google also tells me.
13:10:13 <frosch123> But that is not very obvious for someone used to more decent programming languages :p
13:11:37 <AmixE90> Celestar: www.morphos-team.net
13:12:12 <Celestar> frosch123: I don't see the problem
13:12:23 <Celestar> AmixE90: sorry. I know about MorphOS, but not about the openttd port :D
13:13:39 <frosch123> Celestar: I.e. the OTTD tar loader has a 'while (!feof(f))' with an 'fseek' at the end.
13:14:26 <frosch123> I guess it is pure luck that there is somewhere a 'continue' before the 'fseek' that prevents infinite execution
13:14:38 <Celestar> frosch123: where is that?
13:15:00 <frosch123> fileio.cpp::TarListAddFile
13:15:35 <frosch123> It also reads the next tar header from the file without checking whether data was available
13:16:02 *** Ridayah has joined #openttd
13:16:12 <fjb> I'm voting vor a second tram track type. Wuppertal is calling.
13:16:53 <Celestar> frosch123: interesting :D
13:17:10 <AmixE90> Ohh... Wuppertal got a tramline?
13:17:55 <frosch123> So I guess the result of fread() should be checked to be 512
13:19:12 <frosch123> and the 'while (!feof(f))' could as well be replaced by 'for(;;)'
13:21:24 <Celestar> frosch123: I quite agree (=
13:22:34 <Celestar> try it and see what happens
13:31:33 *** Doorslammer|BRSet is now known as Doorslammer|BVE
13:32:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> AmixE90: "a tram of special kind" :p
13:37:20 <AmixE90> Eddi|zuHause3: yes. Its a metro rather
13:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm assuming these elevated vehicles will still stop if a road vehicle is in front of them...
13:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> AmixE90: no, juristically it's classified as a tram
13:37:45 <AmixE90> Its listed as metro on www.urbanrail.net
13:39:57 *** jorisslob has joined #openttd
13:40:10 <AmixE90> The thing in Wuppertal is a metro ;)
13:41:45 <jorisslob> Companies can have the same name now, right?
13:42:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> "Verkehrsrechtlich gesehen ist die Wuppertaler Schwebebahn eine Straßenbahn besonderer Bauart." [wikipedia]
13:45:53 <AmixE90> Well, thats not correct
13:47:22 <AmixE90> If it was a tram. It would have run at streetlevel. The wuppertal schwebebahn is totally seperated. Thats why its a metro.
13:47:29 <jorisslob> Well, nobody said it, but I am trying the advanced naming your company code from the wiki, and the SetCompany name doesn't seem to fail
13:47:38 <jorisslob> causing all my AIs to use the same name
13:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> AmixE90: where in the law does it state that a tram has to run on streets?
13:49:45 <Rubidium> or even at streetlevel
13:50:02 <AmixE90> Well. The wuppertalbahn isnt at the streetlevel at all. It runs like Paris and Chicago metro. Above the ground, though it is hanging.
13:50:27 <Rubidium> there are trams that don't run at streetlevel at all
13:50:40 <Rubidium> and the metro in Paris runs at places at streetlevel
13:50:43 <Mchl> Things not to do: put 'SVN revert' next to 'SVN commit' in TortoiseSVN context menu
13:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> german railway law has exactly two choices: "railway", meaning high speed and long distance between stops, and "tramway", meaning low speed and short distance between stops
13:51:20 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttd
13:51:23 <Rubidium> AmixE90, from the dictionary: any of various vehicles: as a: a boxlike wagon running on rails (as in a mine), b: [...]
13:51:23 <AmixE90> Rubidium: oki. I didnt knew that
13:51:56 <Rubidium> and metro is just short for metropolitan railway
13:52:23 <jorisslob> Ah, nevermind... companies aren't getting the same name
13:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> and choosing between one or the other has implication on the amount of security you have to put into it
13:52:55 <Rubidium> so technically the wuppertal bahn might be a metro (assuming wuppertal is a metropolitan area), but it doesn't make it not a tram
13:53:10 *** jorisslob has left #openttd
13:53:13 <AmixE90> No.. Metro is mostly underground, but can run above the ground aswell and at streetlevel. Wagons are bigger, platforms too etc
13:54:54 <AmixE90> Hehe, seems we sit with different definitions. You can call it a tram.. Its ok for me, but for me its a metro. Rather one of worlds oldest metro
13:55:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> AmixE90: obviously you have no idea what you are talking about
13:55:37 <Rubidium> the thing is: metro and tram aren't multual exclusive
13:56:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> "metro" is a short form of "metropolitan railway", meaning exactly what it says, "railway in a metropolitan [huge city] area"
13:56:44 <AmixE90> And thats what Wuppertal-bahn is
13:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> that has absolutely nothing to do with wether it is above ground or underground...
13:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> and Wuppertal is not exactly the largest city around...
13:58:01 <AmixE90> H-bahn in Dortmund is a light-metro
13:58:15 <AmixE90> Or so called peoplemover
13:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> Dortmund is slightly bigger than Wuppertal :p
14:00:29 <AmixE90> So dont say that i dont know.. Bah. Here people asks how can a tram go underground as they are used to see no trams underground ;p
14:01:21 <Rubidium> those people have not enough knowledge of the world's implementations of trams
14:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> i've also seen the word "Metrotram" before
14:04:09 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13692 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix (r13674): loading PNG sprites could very quickly fill the sprite cache.
14:16:03 <AmixE90> Eddi|zuHause3: in france you find tram-train ;)
14:17:32 <AmixE90> In Strasbourg and Alicante I think
14:18:03 <glx> near Bondy IIRC (or it is just planed)
14:18:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> since when is Alicante in france?
14:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, could have been i missed something :p
14:19:03 <AmixE90> Well. He wrote in not many places
14:19:12 <AmixE90> And i replied where i know
14:20:20 <glx> but you were talking about France
14:20:41 <glx> (I replied to <AmixE90> Eddi|zuHause3: in france you find tram-train ;) )
14:21:41 *** lobster_MB has joined #openttd
14:22:49 <AmixE90> France, spain, portugal.. All the same.. Just different languages ;)
14:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> USA, Israel, Afghanistan, South Korea... all the same, just different languages...
14:24:04 <AmixE90> They are all outside of EU
14:24:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> exactly, proves my point...
14:24:23 <Mchl> which makes them all the same
14:26:22 <AmixE90> Trams, light-rail, peoplemover, metro, underground, streetcar, local train, tram-train, busstram, monorail
14:39:09 <Mchl> quite current information about Warsaw too
14:39:14 <AmixE90> Wuppertal is under red dot ;p which means it is metro
14:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> "it's in the internet, it must be true!"
14:42:00 <AmixE90> Yes. Wuppertal is more a monorail
14:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> of course the Schwebebahn Wuppertal is a monorail
14:42:58 <AmixE90> A question. Is there plans porting openttd to Symbian mobiles?
14:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> but nowhere in the law it states that a tram has to have 2 rails
14:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, technically the Schwebebahn has a secondary rail for electric transmission
14:45:31 <hylje> i'm a bit puzzled as to why top-suspended monorail is so rare
14:46:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> infrastructure costs are higher than conventional rail, i suppose
14:46:38 <AmixE90> No massproduction of rails for it etc
14:46:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> especially operation of switches is difficult
14:46:54 <hylje> i don't see it fundamentally very expensive, it's just not in such volume than conventional rail
14:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> so building up a network is complicated
14:47:17 <hylje> most tram networks get away with little switchwork
14:47:31 <hylje> but they are indeed needed
14:49:56 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r13693 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r11106, r11117): Do not rely on .tar files always ending with a block of zeros.
15:08:03 *** Slowpoke has joined #openttd
15:10:37 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
15:16:05 <Celestar> the code doesn't compile with -DNO_DEBUG_MESSAGES
16:02:12 *** Davelister has joined #openttd
16:12:08 *** Doorslammer|BVE has quit IRC
16:14:26 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
16:24:11 *** KillaloT has joined #openttd
16:25:34 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
16:37:16 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
16:49:03 *** Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai
17:15:35 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
17:21:11 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
17:28:14 *** de_ghosty has joined #openttd
17:28:27 *** lobster_MB has joined #openttd
17:37:36 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
17:42:16 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
18:06:29 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
18:26:00 *** Wolfolo|AWAY has joined #openttd
18:26:00 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest311
18:26:00 *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
18:55:17 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
19:04:51 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
19:37:43 <MorgyN> what would open trasport tychoon do, gawd damn?
19:38:03 <Sacro> MorgyN: English only please
19:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> something like that :p
19:38:48 <MorgyN> its english, just with bad spelling...
19:40:23 <Wolf01> bah, I don't want to continue my patches... too complicate, too many stupid errors I make, not much ideas, not much knowledge, not much help... 3, 2, 1, REVERT!
19:50:22 <planetmaker> Uh... wolf01 - bad day?
19:50:43 <planetmaker> enjoy the game now on our wwottdgd server :)
19:52:36 <planetmaker> hm... every Saturday is bad? Nahh...
19:53:11 *** De_Ghost has joined #openttd
19:54:07 * LA gets a present every Saturday... not :(
20:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> saturdays are only bad when there's no doctor who :p
20:02:34 <Rubidium> which is about 3/4th of the saturdays then
20:02:40 <fjb> The doctor comes sundays.
20:02:56 <Rubidium> not the dubbed german version
20:21:36 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest328
20:44:10 *** Zealotus has joined #openttd
20:58:47 *** GoneWorko has joined #openttd
21:01:51 *** GoneWorko is now known as GoneWacko
21:06:58 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
21:19:28 <Sacro> Why does OpenTTD have English (UK)
21:19:32 <Sacro> surely that is just English
21:20:51 <glx> to make it clear it's not English(US)
21:21:57 <Sacro> if the americans complain then tell em to piss off
21:22:31 <Sacro> do you have "French (France)"
21:22:36 <Sacro> and "French (Canadian)"
21:22:49 <glx> there's only 1 French lang file
21:22:49 <Sacro> and "French (Allo Allo)"
21:23:10 <Mchl> there's also English (Original veh names)
21:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> we should have Sächsisch and Schwäbisch as languages :p
21:25:23 <ln> i'm having trouble choosing which french to choose as the one and only doesn't say if it's France or Canada or Suisse.
21:25:42 <ln> well, actually I've never run OpenTTD in french, but that's beside the point.
21:26:23 <Mchl> yeah... who uses translations anyway? :P
21:29:15 <ln> who said i don't use a translation?
21:33:15 <ln> besides the original is full of incomprehensible things such as "Patch settings" and "TTDPatch-style non-stop handling".
21:34:23 *** Ridayah_ has joined #openttd
21:39:55 <Mchl> they're even more incomprehensible in polish
21:40:11 <Mchl> for whatever reason patches are translated as 'plugins'
21:45:33 *** Ridayah has joined #openttd
21:57:13 *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
21:59:28 *** KillaloT has joined #openttd
21:59:53 *** The_real_Lord has joined #openttd
22:01:49 <ln> Mchl: well, is that any more wrong than "patches"?
22:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> "plugin" is more what a grf is
22:07:55 *** Progman has joined #openttd
22:11:12 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
22:11:37 <dih> what's up with the nightlies?
22:18:03 <Rubidium> network trouble at the time the compile was scheduled, so svn update didn't do it's work
22:18:27 <Rubidium> so let's hope it does it's work tomorrow
22:29:01 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13694 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Change: make it more explicit that you've opened the available train/ship/etc. list instead of the one where you can actually build vehicles by setting the appropriate title for the window.
22:29:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> i vote for removing the "build vehicle" button instead of greying it out
22:30:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13695 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Fix [FS#2120]: in some cases the (sound) mixer could overflow causing artefacts in the sound.
22:45:22 *** The_real_Lord has left #openttd
23:16:03 *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
23:26:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
23:34:31 *** ben_goodger has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵