IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-07-04
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07:37:10 <ln> the independence day of the world!
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07:42:53 <eekee> happy independance day ln! XD;
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07:51:22 <flowOver> We had independance day already in Canada. We're 3 days ahead right, because we're closer to the north pole
07:51:40 <Poopsmith> and we don't have independance day
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09:34:30 <Mirrakor> my train network is totally collapsing :D
09:36:13 <Mirrakor> what can I do if two(well. actually, there are a few more) trains crash into each other?
09:36:27 <Mirrakor> Do I've to remove the rail there or how do I get them off the network
09:36:31 <Mirrakor> actually I've them :D
09:36:41 <eekee> oh they take a minute or so to go away
09:36:50 <eekee> it's the cleanup time, I guess
09:37:02 <Mirrakor> but somehow they got jammed up - I said to ignore the signal and one train couldn't help it but to drive right into the next one
09:37:26 <eekee> ya very tricky dealing with gridlock
09:37:43 <eekee> I hold my breath & almost pray every time :)
09:38:48 <Mirrakor> on the other hand - I can buy new trains now :)
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09:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> the safest way to deal with a gridlock is building a depot
09:44:51 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Who killed the forum? :P
09:45:07 <eekee> now why did I never think of that
09:47:07 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Hmmm, works now
09:47:13 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Good work everyone ;)
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10:03:01 <SpComb> someone's abusing the networking code, presumeably wrote some custom code to do that
10:06:49 <ln-> don't worry, it's still completely safe to run a server as root..
10:09:06 <MorgyN> if you absolutely have to run it on a unprivilidged port... dnat with iptables =P
10:14:56 <blathijs> But, there are actually spambots that target OpenTTD? Cool :-D
10:16:20 <dih> it's some kiddo that does it by hand
10:17:05 <blathijs> Or probably semi-automated
10:17:30 <blathijs> Once spambots start join games just to be able to spam, we know that our userbase is getting too big :-p
10:20:10 <SpComb> indeed, and I'm wondering how long it'll take until someone finds a remote-code-execution vulnerability in OpenTTD
10:21:11 <Noldo> who has commit access, hide it into today's nigthly
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10:21:43 <SpComb> meh, I'm sure the codebase is large enough that there's already enough bugs to be found
10:22:09 <SpComb> stuff that only happens with malformed data, not normal data generated by OpenTTD itself - so one wouldn't notice it normally
10:29:12 <peter1138> all command data is checked for validity (in theory)
10:33:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> i remember someone called "test" here that looked for all kinds of buffer overflows and stuff
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12:13:00 <Ammler> (the "spamer" is a chinese forum, afaik)
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12:19:07 <dih> Ammler: the spamer is one user from the chinese forum
12:20:39 <Ammler> well, TiberiusTeng should know more... :-P
12:20:50 <TiberiusTeng> actually I don't know much more :P
12:21:04 <Ammler> so nobody answered to your post?
12:21:05 <TiberiusTeng> but they are aware of this situation, yes.
12:21:36 <TiberiusTeng> they did, they even replied to that thread in tt-forums
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14:46:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13674 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: (log message trimmed)
14:46:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2127]: crash when drawing a non-real sprite. The drawing of the
14:46:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: non-real sprite is caused when two NewGRFs replace the same sprite and the first
14:46:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: replaces it with a real sprite (and thus assumes it remains a real sprite) and
14:46:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: the second replaces it with a non-real sprite. OpenTTD already looked at whether
14:46:07 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: the sprite to load should be seen as a real or non-real sprite, but it failed to
14:46:09 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: replace non-real sprites with a substitute real sprite when getting the sprite
14:50:40 <Ammler> nice comment Rubidium :-)
14:51:19 <Ammler> there would be more, I guess
15:07:19 <TiberiusTeng> ahh, spritecache :P
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15:30:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... why do the czech graphics always look so... 2D?
15:31:11 <Ammler> specially the roads :-)
15:35:11 <ccfreak2k> I like how the station terminal occludes the nearby trees.
15:36:26 <MorgyN> theres no dithering gradient shading.
15:36:40 <MorgyN> artist choice i guess ;D
15:37:15 <Belugas> or maybe lack of knowledge/tool?
15:39:37 <MorgyN> that's and impressive station tho :D
15:46:48 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Depends what technique people use
15:47:28 <Doorslammer|BRSet> There is such thing as too much dithering in my opinion
15:48:10 <Doorslammer|BRSet> But them roads look a little underdone
15:48:20 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Love the station too
15:50:21 <TiberiusTeng> my friend is always complaining about the palette :p
15:52:17 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Just have to be real inventive with it
15:52:35 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Many people have wonderful ideas just from the limited palette
15:53:16 <Doorslammer|BRSet> My PNG which just finished up
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15:57:16 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Any more wondrous musings from the genius Draakon today?
15:58:09 <Belugas> unkless he cahnges identity, of course
16:20:03 <joachim> if consumer rights applied to grfs he might have a point
16:20:04 <Doorslammer|BRSet> You sir, have earned the "Hunter Award for Excellence 2008"
16:25:16 <Belugas> Drakoon did not made any points about anything. He was just after the fun of trolling
16:25:26 <Belugas> if it was Drakoon you were refering to
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18:15:49 <dih> [20:15] <Mr_Console> Game version is r13673
18:15:49 <dih> [20:15] <Mr_Console> Server is going down for autmoated upgrade... see you soon!
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18:15:49 <dih> [20:15] <Mr_Console> Autopilot engaged
18:15:51 <dih> [20:15] <Mr_Console> Starting new game named 'openttd.dihedral.de / AutoNightly'
18:15:55 <dih> [20:15] <Mr_Console> Game version is r13674
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18:16:50 <dih> sounds like someone here cannot be happy with me!
18:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'll never get used to this "ku" thing people say all the time
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18:33:16 <Rubidium> dih: not to mention typos
18:35:00 <Yorick> does it go if all nightlies are compiled?
18:35:07 <Yorick> or just if only the nightly it needs is
18:36:42 <Yorick> yeah, you were ignoring me, but I don't care about that :)
18:37:51 <SmatZ> Yorick: it runs if it compiles server binary
18:38:06 <Rubidium> anyhow... yay... yet another server
18:38:19 <Yorick> someone fired 10 of them from the same ip
18:38:41 <Rubidium> especially useful with ~0.6 clients per server
18:39:14 <SmatZ> hehe yeah, maybe it would be good to code "AI-clients"
18:42:28 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13675 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: memory leak when NewGRFs got forcefully disabled and they defined GOTO labels.
18:46:14 <Yorick> haven't seen any paid ones
18:46:48 <Yorick> and it runs 30 servers
18:47:29 <DorpsGek> Yorick: Servers online: 197; Running version 0.6.1 (latest): 116; Clients online: 133
18:47:42 <Yorick> wasn't the limit around 230?
18:48:21 <Rubidium> but I can't be bothered as long as the number of players < 400
18:50:14 <Yorick> well, it seems like that bigboom.ath.cx is going to start some 70 more
18:51:38 <Rubidium> why do you think that?
18:51:40 <Yorick> "Heute machen wir unsere Master Tests mit unserm Neun MonoWall Firewall und unserem Server, deswegn Haben wir auch knapp 100 Server Am laufen für knap 3-4 Wochen."
18:52:21 <Yorick> ask some native german :)
18:52:58 <planetmaker> Belugas: bragging about a new system with a firewall.
18:53:23 <planetmaker> testing his server. Therefore he has nearly 100 servers running for 3-4 weeks.
18:53:33 <planetmaker> Many grammar and spelling errors :P
18:53:34 <Yorick> they can't just go runnin 100 servers
18:53:54 <planetmaker> yeah, and content. But that's what it sais.
18:54:10 <Yorick> "openttd(at)host47.de" for more info
18:54:40 <Rubidium> so we may need to throttle the amount of servers per IP to something sane
18:54:54 <Yorick> well they can, but only if they go with their own masterserver
18:55:44 <planetmaker> ah... maybe that's what he tries to say: doing a master test
18:56:07 <Yorick> that does not say anything
18:56:08 <Rubidium> having his own master server is pointless, unless he's providing binaries for his server
18:56:21 <Yorick> because he has 30 servers on the official masterserver
18:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> this german statement does hardly make any sense...
18:57:33 * eekee vaguely reembers being in here when the bigboom guy was excited ove having his first server up
18:57:46 <planetmaker> Yorick: yeah, I looked at that site. It's aweful
18:57:54 <planetmaker> And not working properly at all.
18:57:58 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Its like the equivalent of a Mormon computer player :S
18:58:12 <Yorick> their servers are flooding the masterserver
18:58:12 <Doorslammer|BRSet> One server is good, but 30 is better
18:58:53 <planetmaker> on the webpage nothing works except the entry page
18:58:56 <Yorick> "4 OpenTTD Players" :-P
18:59:04 <Yorick> they got 4 players on 100 servers
18:59:24 <planetmaker> yeah, Very nice. And good service to the "community" :P
18:59:37 <Yorick> Amd Opteron 2,2GHZ, 2GB DDR2 Ram, 200GB Sata2 Raid1, BioStar Board, 10MB Line, Debian 4.0 64Bit System. <-- that's also nowhere near enough for 800 possible players
18:59:46 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Hes taking the pistachio
19:00:05 <Doorslammer|BRSet> Nut references FTW
19:00:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13676 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix [FS#2126]: inactive companies from old (TTD) saves could be marked active in some cases, which then loads garbage in their statistics and such.
19:00:54 <planetmaker> uh... I read someone is on a bug fixing spree :)
19:00:54 <Yorick> yeah, we should place a limit on the masterserver for servers/ip
19:01:30 <KingJ> Or just IP ban this guy from the master server so he can't announce in the first place?
19:01:57 <Yorick> KinJ: hardcodes IPs; ugh
19:03:03 <eekee> 10's quite a lot in a list, imho
19:03:15 <Rubidium> the quy doesn't even pause the games ;)
19:03:34 <Yorick> woah, he allows players to set up a new server for themselves too
19:03:49 <Yorick> well it doesn't work yet
19:04:00 <Yorick> login: yorick password: yorick
19:04:50 <Rubidium> I'd like 5 0.5.3 servers with a custom setting ;)
19:04:58 <Rubidium> to maximize the load
19:05:20 <Rubidium> almost all water maps with YAPF for ships ;)
19:05:24 <Rubidium> and that kinds of settings
19:05:40 <Yorick> you can't even do that
19:05:50 <Yorick> the add.php page isn't found
19:06:08 <Yorick> I think you can email them about how they can't just setup 100 servers
19:07:25 <Prof_Frink> Yorick: Don't set a max number of servers per IP. Set a max number of *empty* servers per IP.
19:07:58 <Rubidium> I was more thinking of something with players and servers per IP
19:08:26 <Rubidium> like (5 + (players / 5)) servers per IP
19:08:27 <Yorick> Rubidium: at most 60 players per IP
19:08:53 <eekee> why a max player limit?
19:09:14 <Yorick> because one is currently running about 50 empty servers
19:09:22 <KingJ> This could be a nightmare if I decide to launch OpenTTD hosting services (On hold at the moment)
19:09:48 <Rubidium> KingJ: what's more annoying is having 0.1 clients per server
19:09:52 <eekee> Yorick: oh player slots? Not active players?
19:10:22 <KingJ> Yeah, I see that he's got a lot of servers and is in effect spamming the list. How about no more than 5 servers with the same hostname per IP?
19:11:06 <Rubidium> then he'll just start numbering them
19:11:13 <Yorick> KingJ: worse, the master server can't handle 230 servers
19:11:34 <Rubidium> it can, it just will not show the last few
19:11:49 <Belugas> can it be controlled by the masterserver itself?
19:11:57 <KingJ> How does your master server work then? Does it query each server or just return a list of IPs?
19:12:07 <Yorick> it returns a list of ip
19:12:16 <Yorick> then the client queries them
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19:12:33 <KingJ> So how does the 230 limit come into play?
19:12:47 <Rubidium> ~(max packet size / 6)
19:13:11 <Rubidium> which is like 1457/6 IIRC
19:13:34 <DorpsGek> Yorick: 242.833333333
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19:14:03 <Yorick> how does ottd react on a piece of ip?
19:14:08 <KingJ> All encapsulated in one single packet
19:15:01 <Rubidium> it won't send half IPs
19:15:27 <Rubidium> oh, it's more 1455/6-ish
19:16:01 <Rubidium> Yorick: I'm fairly sure about it
19:16:13 <Rubidium> static const uint16 max_count = (sizeof(this->serverlist_packet->buffer) - sizeof(PacketSize) - sizeof(PacketType) - sizeof(count)) / (sizeof(uint32) + sizeof(uint16));
19:16:29 <Rubidium> so (1460 - 2 - 1 - 2) / (4 + 2)
19:16:38 <Yorick> someone can now send that bigbang stuff an email :)
19:16:46 <Rubidium> that amount of servers is queried
19:16:58 <KingJ> Perhaps the master should be redesigned (I know, no small task) since OpenTTD will grow and exceed that limit one day. Another game I host for simply has their list returned from a HTTP server (pulling the data from a MySQL database or similar I presume)
19:17:24 <Rubidium> KingJ: there is currently *absolutely* no need for a redesign
19:17:58 <Rubidium> and TCP isn't quite the best protocol to use as it uses way more bandwidth than UDP
19:18:02 <KingJ> I'm sure you will legitmately hit that limit someday though
19:18:06 <Rubidium> at least in this case
19:18:58 <Rubidium> KingJ: as long as the number of clients is less than twice the server limit I can't be bothered changing it
19:20:22 <Rubidium> and given the 'current' rate of client growth
19:20:41 <Rubidium> it won't happen soon
19:21:00 <Rubidium> though the servers are exploding with like 100 since last year
19:22:51 <Belugas> which means that contrary to MB's statement, OpenTTD is easy to install and configure :P
19:33:56 <tneo> does compiling under linux for 64 bit need special options?
19:34:26 <tneo> does it make a difference I use "-j4" ?
19:36:06 <MorgyN> lol openttd dedicated server is a /bit/ of a faff, but I shan't complain or you'll suggest i fix it somehow =P
19:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> translation, please?
19:38:03 <TiberiusTeng> -j4 ... are you using some dual/quad core CPU ? :P
19:38:43 <eekee> -j6 works well on quad core :p
19:39:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> if n is the number of cores, you can get away with -j(2n-1)
19:39:03 <eekee> Actually I had a single core that liked -j3. Athlon 1800XP
19:39:28 <joachim> without reading all of the backlog, the problem seems to be flooding the server list?
19:39:38 <eekee> My later Sempron didn't want more than -2, and was generally crap for compiling
19:40:17 <joachim> if that is the case I think the best solution is for there not to be a default server list
19:40:44 <joachim> such a list can always be flooded or hacked as long as the source is open
19:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> a DHT serverlist ;)
19:41:16 <eekee> it can be flooded or hacked as long as the protocol is crackable
19:41:29 <Yorick> joachim: it's more like someone setting up 100 servers
19:41:47 <joachim> if you have a non-hackable protocol, let cia know
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19:42:13 <joachim> Yorick: well, trolls exist
19:42:25 <joachim> and they always will...
19:42:27 <Yorick> he doesn't seem to be evil
19:42:40 <Yorick> just he doesn't know that it's gonna flood the master server
19:42:50 <joachim> ok, then it should be possible to tell him?
19:43:23 <joachim> and assuming it is a "he" is sexist... I know girls who enjoy openttd
19:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> joachim: there are no females on the internet
19:44:37 <joachim> Yorick: Could not connect to remote server, but I assume yau are female?
19:44:51 <joachim> still, you assume the host is male
19:44:55 * eekee knows some very good simulations of females online. Has been one too. >__>
19:45:13 <eekee> joachim: no, we all saw the web page with that image
19:45:18 <joachim> females can be sexist as well... thinking otherwise is sexist...
19:45:22 <hylje> male pronouns are generally used for unknown gender in english
19:45:45 <joachim> hylje: especially on the internet?
19:45:48 <Yorick> hylje: it isn't unknown
19:46:06 <eekee> It used to be a hard rule. If you didn't know, you used the male
19:47:21 <Yorick> he just doesn't know that he's gonna flood the server list
19:47:36 <joachim> still - that is sexist - cause historically males are usually the ones either doing the tricks or being noticed for doing the tricks
19:48:21 <joachim> so it being part of the language... plausible, but sexist
19:49:16 <joachim> Yorick: well, is noone able to contact the host?
19:50:07 <hylje> joachim: the origin is irrelevant
19:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> joachim: better than "liebe Sexistinnen und Sexisten"
19:52:37 <joachim> hylje: yes, but referring to every unknown in the openttd community as one sex would be offensive to the other
19:53:33 <hylje> the unknown is the same word as the male
19:53:40 <hylje> the unknown is not the male
19:55:14 <joachim> might be correct.. but appropriate?
19:55:44 <joachim> like I said, the language is still made by only one sex
19:58:41 <joachim> I disagree, but I guess the Scandinavian languages are of the few to take notice and adapt to this...
19:59:08 <hylje> nothing to adapt, it was like that to begin with
19:59:58 <joachim> nothing was there to begin with. you made your own language?
20:00:51 <joachim> god made earth, humans. and then he created finnish :)
20:00:54 <hylje> the pronouns are all genderless. that is obviously offensive to both sexes anyway...
20:02:26 <Rubidium> who said that god is male?
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20:03:36 <joachim> wasn't it genderless?
20:03:42 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: Indeed, Dogma suggests otherwise.
20:03:51 <Rubidium> so you have been equally wrong... end of discussion ;)
20:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> that was on TV here last weekend ;)
20:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, the documentation...
20:07:33 <joachim> ok - then there are a few
20:12:08 <joachim> one that doesn't call everyone "he"? :P
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20:34:28 <ln> would someone like to recommend a keyboard model?
20:41:09 <ln> i'll have one azerty keyboard with freedom fries, please.
20:47:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> did you mean: oil industry fries
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21:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> "what is typical german mentality" -- "I have a solution to my problem, but let’s see if I can find a more complicated one."
21:43:39 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13677 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2102]: in the case that elrails and 'realistic' acceleration are disabled all electrified engines would have no power on load, until the vehicle got turned around, loaded or got into a depot.
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23:08:08 <ArmEagle> Hmm, I haven't played for quite some time and just downloaded a 0.6.1 version for windows. I started some scenario, and I was surprised to see I could lower terrain parallel to some existing track, making that being 'built on a slope'.
23:09:21 <ln> note to self: rm ~/Downloads/*.rar is not the command for listing downloaded rar files.
23:09:29 <ArmEagle> But in some places, along the same stretch of (opponent's) track it does not allow this "Can't lower land here...""Must remove railroad track first".
23:10:04 <ArmEagle> i had it lowered on the other side already..
23:11:26 <joachim> ln: closing in on intelligence, are we? :P
23:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> and i thought cmp vs. cp was bad...
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23:31:59 <ben_goodger> that must have been painful
23:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, the files definitely were the same afterwards :p
23:42:24 <ln> just a little bit of re-downloading...
23:43:43 <joachim> do any of you live in the netherlands? i know there used to be a lot of dutch people in the community earlier
23:44:04 <joachim> i'd like a job there, in it or telecom :)
23:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> that'd not be different than anywhere else in europe
23:45:05 <joachim> all european countries are the same?
23:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, it's called "globalisation"
23:47:32 <joachim> and it's a trend, not a fact. there are different cultures and laws in different parts of europe....
23:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's mostly small details
23:49:59 <joachim> what about suth-eastern asia and africa?
23:50:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> most of europe has a shared history and a common base culture
23:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> i can't speak about "the world"
23:51:33 <joachim> there are huge (local) cultural differences within europe and there is no such thing as a "globalisation" that has occured
23:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> there are also huge local difference within the same country
23:52:49 <joachim> so globalisation doesn't affect them?
23:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> between villages that are only 5km distant from each other, but do not understand each other because of differently evolved dialects
23:53:20 <joachim> 01:44 < joachim> all european countries are the same?
23:53:20 <joachim> 01:46 < Eddi|zuHause3> yes, it's called "globalisation"
23:53:38 <joachim> you just said europe shared a culture
23:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it's basically like 3 main cultures that all influenced each other ;)
23:55:05 <joachim> citation needed.. i still want to move to the netherlands :) so if anyone has a vacant job... let me know
23:55:18 <joachim> Eddi|zuHause3: may i ask where you live?
23:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> central germany
23:56:04 <joachim> otherwise you would be somewhere else :)
23:56:29 <joachim> ok, then i agree with you a little
23:57:46 <joachim> i might group the dutch culture in a "continental" culture along with zc, belgium, etc
23:58:24 <joachim> typical for the beer belt except for the uk
23:59:08 <joachim> suthern is the wine belt, and northern europe (except uk) is the vodka belt
23:59:15 <ln> the problem with netherlands is that you cannot watch e.g. their tv without laughing at the subtitles.
23:59:27 <joachim> like you said, three cultures, Eddi|zuHause3 :)
23:59:43 <joachim> ln: i don't watch tv... :)
continue to next day ⏵
