IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-06-26
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00:00:23 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, I completely agrees with you ...
00:02:47 *** Madassasin has joined #openttd
00:02:56 <DorpsGek> Belugas: roujin was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 8 hours, 30 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <Roujin> i have to go off now, see you later
00:03:48 <DorpsGek> Madassasin: LordAzamath was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 2 days, 6 hours, 30 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <LordAzamath> leet
00:03:59 <DorpsGek> Madassasin: I have not seen Azamath.
00:04:28 <DorpsGek> glx: LA was last seen in #openttd 9 hours, 7 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <LA> / * Yorick faints /
00:05:01 <Madassasin> :P who could guess
00:08:54 <Madassasin> one q, are the generic trams included in the trunk source?
00:09:12 <glx> only in "stable" releases
00:09:22 <Madassasin> ok, good, I don't have to delete another file :)
00:10:05 <Madassasin> "stable" indeed...for me even bleeding edge trunk with custom compiler switches and patches applied has been stable :))
00:10:44 <glx> "stable" is non beta nor RC
00:11:51 <ccfreak2k> Using my "ati-specific" binary.
00:11:58 <ccfreak2k> He claims everyone looks as it should.
00:12:08 <TiberiusTeng> seems not quite different than my 7600GT :p
00:12:10 <ccfreak2k> Rather, everyTHING looks as is should.
00:12:59 <Madassasin> another q, why is Os (favor small code) set in VC++ 2008 instead of Ot (favor fast code)? If you disable link-time code generation (which IMO doesn't add much speed improvement and adds a ton of useless data to the executable) you would get back some good space
00:14:29 <TiberiusTeng> ahh. EXT_copy_texture has integrated into core OpenGL since 1.1 ...
00:15:34 <TiberiusTeng> Madassasin, I didn't benchmarked it, but my experience is that smaller code would actually faster in many cases.
00:15:42 <TiberiusTeng> think cache size.
00:16:00 <Madassasin> with most HDDs a few MB/s, it wouldn't be much stuff anyway
00:16:15 <TiberiusTeng> no, I mean cache vs. main memory access :p
00:16:26 <TiberiusTeng> but you're right, it really depends.
00:16:31 <Madassasin> bleh, not really noticeable
00:17:01 <Madassasin> but that little Os -> Ot does some wonders :)
00:17:17 <TiberiusTeng> it'll make a big difference if some ofent used codes can't completely fit into the cache, or they collide into each other due to associativity.
00:17:46 <TiberiusTeng> or some really big iterative algorithms ... think of pathfinding, etc. in OTTD
00:18:06 <TiberiusTeng> perhaps you can bench it and check which one's better for OTTD? :p
00:18:30 <Madassasin> it does some wonders with aniamted water & fast forward
00:18:44 <Madassasin> and that water animation bogs down everythng
00:19:05 <TiberiusTeng> fast-forward is almost the 'benchmarking' mode :p
00:19:38 <TiberiusTeng> animation's pretty, that's why I insist that OpenGL blitter should support it before release :p
00:20:15 <Madassasin> Hmm, the project file has some switches on or off at odd times...
00:20:52 <Madassasin> If the OGL blitter does some significant improvement for 8bpp tell me :P
00:21:28 <Madassasin> but on Windows OpenGL is translated back to DirectX, just like Wine does DirectX -> OpenGL.
00:21:55 <Madassasin> So why would ti be faster than using DirectX? (currently done via SDL I guess)
00:22:23 <ccfreak2k> I was sort of thinking the same thing, but that reduces portability.
00:22:47 <TiberiusTeng> it did, on my machine.
00:23:00 <TiberiusTeng> the difference is small in new game
00:23:10 <Madassasin> but for 8bpp, does it add a significant improvment?
00:23:27 <TiberiusTeng> but huge when I loaded something like openttdcoop final save games :p
00:23:27 <Madassasin> I usually don't have lots of trains :P
00:24:01 <Madassasin> must be forced for openttdcoop save games =))
00:24:39 <Madassasin> WTF?! strgen.exe is not a valid win32 application?
00:24:46 <Madassasin> SVN is corrupting fiels now :(
00:25:25 <Madassasin> funny that strgen is compiled directly :|
00:26:17 <TiberiusTeng> but for me, the reason to use OpenGL is actually better transparent buildings for my taste
00:26:25 <Madassasin> I suggest that someone compiles on VC++ with /W4
00:26:35 <Madassasin> Bleh, I'm sticking with 8bpp
00:27:15 <TiberiusTeng> function wise, it should be compared with 32bpp-anim, since 8bpp blitters won't display PNG sprites
00:27:45 <ccfreak2k> Madassasin, I can do that,
00:27:57 <ccfreak2k> I seem to be the only person in the world who uses VS8.
00:28:12 <TiberiusTeng> and when zoomed out 8x in a 1024x768 window, 20fps sounds not really impressive, and yes, 8bpp blitters can do a little better than that
00:28:24 <TiberiusTeng> but 32bpp-anim will do 0.5fps on my machine in that situation ........
00:29:01 <Madassasin> ccfreak2k, switch to /W4 and watch the log skyrocket with warnings like constant expressions and unreferenced params, and others too
00:29:27 <Madassasin> 1 - 2>..\src\tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp(166) : warning C4018: '<=' : signed/unsigned mismatch
00:29:31 <ccfreak2k> I'm trying to find out what /W4 DOES.
00:30:18 <Madassasin> makes the compiler imitate DaleStan
00:30:35 <TiberiusTeng> don't tell me you always write code for -pedantic-errors :p
00:30:36 <Madassasin> LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'dxguid.lib' --> O_o Heck, I have DX SDK!
00:30:48 <TiberiusTeng> ahhh impressive! (salutes)
00:30:51 <Madassasin> Cause i'm a weairdo
00:30:58 <ccfreak2k> So I guess /W4 is like -Wall?
00:31:40 <TiberiusTeng> cl do have /Wall too
00:32:01 <TiberiusTeng> and .../WX treat warnings as errors
00:32:07 <TiberiusTeng> try /Wall /WX :P
00:32:49 <TiberiusTeng> since I don't have ATI cards in hand, I'd rather go playing with mipmaps ...
00:33:29 <SmatZ> Madassasin: return bridge_len <= (_settings_game.construction.longbridges ? 100U : 16U);
00:33:39 <SmatZ> does this "fix" that warning?
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00:33:59 <ccfreak2k> Isn't <= a comparison?
00:34:01 <SmatZ> I really wonder how compilers can't convert constants one the fly :-x
00:34:19 <ccfreak2k> It would return a bool.
00:35:50 <Madassasin> SmatZ GCC does...M$'s stuff likes not to :(
00:36:48 <Madassasin> I guess i'll make a patch to correct the /W4 (-Wall) warnings :)
00:37:03 <Madassasin> I'm gonna kill M$....
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00:37:08 <Madassasin> LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'dxguid.lib'
00:38:01 <SmatZ> Madassasin: MSVC is at level of gcc2, that gives a warning at that line, too ;-)
00:38:32 <Madassasin> damn VC9, I should have stayed with VC8, as this one won't look through subfolders for a damn file
00:40:51 * Madassasin is :O at the portability of OTTD
00:41:05 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r13638 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: signed/unsigned warning for MSVC9 and gcc2
00:41:25 <ccfreak2k> smatz, VS8 warns there too. :)
00:41:57 <SmatZ> I didn't say other compilers dont warn :-)
00:42:35 <Madassasin> I'm gonna make a patch for better VS8 & VS9 projects and to fix those warning like constant expression or unreferenced parameter.
00:42:44 <ccfreak2k> It's just easier to mention the specific compilers that you dislike, right? :)
00:43:02 <Madassasin> it's nearly 4 am xD
00:43:13 <ccfreak2k> Actually, that was the only warning I ever saw generated.
00:43:19 <ccfreak2k> Except for some of TiberiusTeng's opengl code.
00:43:20 <Madassasin> well, good morning guys :))
00:43:27 <SmatZ> Madassasin: I am not sure if that patch would be accepted
00:44:04 <SmatZ> we have that warnings intentionally turned off by -Wno-unused-parameter
00:44:26 <SmatZ> I think it is better readable to have parameters named but unused
00:44:43 <SmatZ> I don't care that much :)
00:45:00 <Madassasin> I'm still wondering why they're added if not used
00:45:08 <SmatZ> does it warn in default compiler settings?
00:45:17 <TiberiusTeng> semms I have to come up a way for those sprintf()s before it even be considered merging :p
00:45:19 <SmatZ> probably some function template
00:45:26 <ccfreak2k> VS8 wans on unused variables. I dunno about parameters.
00:45:38 <TiberiusTeng> but god I hate #define's
00:45:42 <SmatZ> like all patch settings callbacks have to use parameters (int32, int32) or so
00:45:56 <Madassasin> on default no, but i' an error killer xD
00:46:15 <SmatZ> or commands have to have parameters (tile, p1, p2, flags) or so
00:46:22 <ccfreak2k> "Culture" is set to Swedish (0x41d).
00:46:27 <Madassasin> ok, NOREF(my_param); or my_param;
00:46:32 <glx> we used to treat warnings as errors for MSVC
00:46:58 <glx> ccfreak2k: yes ludde is from sweden
00:47:22 <ccfreak2k> I also know a few Swedes.
00:47:53 <ccfreak2k> Something something borglyft.
00:48:37 <Madassasin> alright, bye people
00:48:43 <ccfreak2k> I wonder why the sprite shader throws an error...
01:06:46 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, I remember I gave you a version that display shader-compilation errors ?
01:06:53 <TiberiusTeng> error messages, I mean
01:09:28 <ccfreak2k> You gave me some lines to paste, but I long since lost those.
01:12:31 <TiberiusTeng> ahh, nevermind. the one with glGenPrograms ...
01:15:26 <ccfreak2k> The only invalid operation I get now is glBindProgramARB.
01:47:28 <TiberiusTeng> I think it's not glBindProgramARB generating the error
01:48:31 <TiberiusTeng> since the error is accumulated (I don't know the exact word to describe it)
01:49:18 <TiberiusTeng> i.e. once an error flag is set, it will keep set, until checked with glGetError().
01:50:10 <TiberiusTeng> and if that glGen/BindProgramARB do failed, the sprite shader would unavailable, causing black screen
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04:17:23 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, try gDEBugger Breakpoints -> Break on OpenGL error when you're available :)
05:13:39 <ccfreak2k> Did anyone ring for me while I was gone?
05:24:19 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, try gDEBugger Breakpoints -> Break on OpenGL error when you're available :)
05:24:39 <ccfreak2k> It doesn't work correctly.
05:24:51 <ccfreak2k> If I turn it on, glPopAttrib() errors on every frame.
05:24:57 <ccfreak2k> So it breaks right after I resume.
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05:34:33 <TiberiusTeng> it didn't show any errors on my computer
05:34:48 <TiberiusTeng> perhaps glPopAttrib did cause some error on your computer
05:35:36 <TiberiusTeng> did it show error type ?
05:36:26 <TiberiusTeng> but strange, I only use it when drawing debugging boundary boxes
05:37:46 <ccfreak2k> GL_INVALID_OPERATION
05:38:29 <ccfreak2k> Actually I can't tell if it only happens when debugging.
05:38:46 <ccfreak2k> I just know that it does happen while debugging preventing me from being able to break on anything ELSE.
05:39:57 <ccfreak2k> Blah, this program is a piece of shit.
05:40:15 <ccfreak2k> It's breaking on glPopAttrib even though I told it to break on glTexCopy2D.
05:41:21 <ccfreak2k> Rather, glTexCopy2D.
05:42:53 <ccfreak2k> I had to change the uh
05:42:59 <ccfreak2k> break mode I guess.
05:43:53 <ccfreak2k> Error on glDrawBuffersATI
05:44:00 <ccfreak2k> GL_INVALID_OPERATION
05:44:20 <ccfreak2k> Unsuprisingly, it's an operation on a non-existant auxillary color buffer.
05:49:07 <ccfreak2k> glDrawBuffersATI and glReadBuffer take turns returning GL_INVALID_OPERATION.
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05:50:41 <ccfreak2k> Call stack is openttd.exe > MainLoop > PreFlip > FlushDeferredDraws > DrawSpriteBuffer for glDrawBuffersATI.
05:51:05 <ccfreak2k> openttd.exe > MainLoop > PreFlip for glReadBuffer.
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06:13:11 <ccfreak2k> Everything else is either a-ok or is experiencing logic errors. :)
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06:26:06 <TiberiusTeng> hmm ... okay. so that's how it does ...
06:26:23 <TiberiusTeng> I'll see if a FBO replacing AUX0 can cure this problem
06:26:52 <TiberiusTeng> it's just TOO HOT here to concentrate on the code :(
06:29:32 <ccfreak2k> What do you intend to do with FBO?
06:30:00 <ccfreak2k> Just store the "pieces" of the screen while scrolling?
06:39:54 <TiberiusTeng> yes, use it like using AUX0
06:40:25 <TiberiusTeng> well, not used for scrolling ... it'll be used to store colorindexes so we can do palette animation
06:40:29 <ccfreak2k> Maybe someone on freenode ##opengl might be able to help out.
06:44:34 <ccfreak2k> OFTC might have their own #opengl. Who knows.
06:44:48 <ccfreak2k> -ChanServ- Channel information for #opengl
06:44:48 <ccfreak2k> -ChanServ- Time Registered: Sat 19 Apr 2003 10:48:35 +0000 (5y 2m 9d 19:56:03 ago)
06:44:48 <ccfreak2k> -ChanServ- Description: "OpenGL - The Industry's Foundation for High Performance Graphics"
06:45:21 <TiberiusTeng> ah! the glDrawBuffers didn't work on your ATI card, so the scrolling breaks!
06:45:38 <ccfreak2k> Now it's all coming together. :)
06:45:59 <TiberiusTeng> but why the cursor is not leaving trails ...
06:46:14 <TiberiusTeng> oh, by the way, what time is it there at your timezone, ccfreak2k ?
06:46:52 <ccfreak2k> /ctcp ccfreak2k TIME might tell you.
06:47:10 <ccfreak2k> I'm about 14:30 behind you.
06:47:11 <TiberiusTeng> actually I did eariler ... but got no reply :p
06:47:18 <ccfreak2k> >ccfreak2k< CTCP TIME
06:47:18 <ccfreak2k> * Received a CTCP TIME from ccfreak2k
06:47:18 <ccfreak2k> -ccfreak2k- TIME Wed Jun 25 23:46:45
06:47:26 <TiberiusTeng> so it's midnight over there?
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06:50:23 <TiberiusTeng> perhaps I can finish a new version next hour or so ... maybe 'tomorrow' for you :)
06:56:13 <ccfreak2k> How much earlier did you ctcp TIME me?
06:56:22 <ccfreak2k> I was offline until about 22:00 here.
06:56:59 <TiberiusTeng> hmm? but from here I never seen you offline :Q
06:57:46 <ccfreak2k> I run a bnc on loliserv.org.
06:59:54 <ccfreak2k> I started because freenode lacks SSL support, so I decided to use an SSH tunnel.
07:00:18 <ccfreak2k> Plus, if I'm getting heavy packet loss, I won't continually join/quit.
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08:27:00 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, still awake?
08:27:13 <TiberiusTeng> or anyone using win32 + ATI 9550+ here? :p
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09:24:23 <DorpsGek> Madassasin: LA was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 27 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <LA> / * Yorick faints /
09:24:42 <yorick> LA is gone for this week
09:24:53 <yorick> he's helping relatives building up their house
09:25:06 <Madassasin> then how did he post on the forums 1 hour ago? :P
09:25:18 <yorick> I don't care about that
09:25:49 <DorpsGek> Gekz: I have not seen jew.
09:34:26 <TiberiusTeng> ahh ... anyone using win32 + ATI 9550+ here?
09:39:57 <Madassasin> I have a nvidia...
09:57:00 <Madassasin> what is newgrf-static for?
09:57:14 <blathijs> TiberiusTeng is drafting testers :-)
09:58:09 <Madassasin> where was that patch that added a better newgrf hui?
09:58:19 <yorick> it currently needs an update
10:27:53 <TiberiusTeng> hmm?! I thought that newgrf gui patch's working
10:28:10 <TiberiusTeng> ouch, neither I nor planetmaker replied that topic ...
10:28:38 <TiberiusTeng> I should check if it still works ...
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10:39:22 <Madassasin> there was a setting to hide trees instead of makig them transparent but I can't find it
10:47:39 <Belugas> "there was" is not proper wording. "There is" would be better
10:48:37 <Belugas> baaa.... hint hint hint -> I NEED COFFEE!
10:55:09 <TiberiusTeng> ahh, almost done (?), now I just need some ATI testers ...
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11:01:04 <LA[lord]> can anyone point me out what is wrong in this...
11:01:09 <LA[lord]> 147 sprites/tropic2.pcx 33 434 09 12 32 -14 -6
11:01:11 <LA[lord]> //!!Warning (159): Metadata invalid. compression must be one of 01, 03, 09, or 0B.
11:02:09 <Rubidium> tabs instead of spaces? alt-255 instead of spaces?
11:02:18 <Rubidium> unicode spaces instead of ascii spaces?
11:03:04 <LA[lord]> erm I don't think so
11:03:20 <LA[lord]> because in whole rest file o such errors
11:03:51 <LA[lord]> and I've got about 150 realsprites defined there
11:04:08 <Rubidium> isn't it that the warning is for the next line?
11:04:53 <LA[lord]> sry for bothering :P
11:05:58 <LA[lord]> and I found the wrong thing in next sprite vey easily
11:06:24 <LA[lord]> if /me is idiot, he should not be in this channel :o
11:07:27 <peter1138> neither should 90 other people
11:08:00 * LA[lord] has left #openttd (kicked: no idiots)
11:08:40 <yorick> I don't trust purple messages
11:08:54 * yorick has quit #openttd (Quit: Poef!)
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11:16:30 <LA[lord]> I have another problem :/
11:17:14 <LA[lord]> which justy got solved :)
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12:01:01 <LA[lord]> and justy I posted the grf on forums
12:04:10 <Noldo> grf-talk is so captivating
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13:22:37 <Madassasin> how do I make trees invisible?
13:23:54 <yorick> and then the button under the trees
13:25:17 <Madassasin> that makes them transparent...I want them invisible, there was a way but I forgot that...also, transparency doesn't work for some reaso :|
13:26:49 <yorick> try the button under the trees
13:26:51 <Belugas> you mean... you cannot make it to work would be more precise
13:27:33 <yorick> colorblind memory, perhaps
13:27:58 <Madassasin> bleh :P, I forgot to press X xD
13:28:48 <Madassasin> now, a bug report is that TG always seems to stick a bunch of industries of the same type near each other and put the processing one at the other side of the map :|
13:29:44 <yorick> try disabling multiple industries near eachother
13:30:46 <Madassasin> I allow multiple of same type per town, not next to each other...but they ARE pretty next to each other, at most 7 tiles
13:31:02 <yorick> possibly that location is the only one where these industries can be built
13:31:12 <yorick> and yes, disable multiple of same type per town
13:31:16 <glx> normally only one type is allowed in each town
13:31:34 <Madassasin> ok, then still why are they next to eahc other? can't they be a little father away?
13:31:37 <Belugas> p.s.: the range of a town is quite further than the visible houses...
13:31:43 <Rubidium> ofcourse PBI and such override most of OpenTTD's checks
13:32:09 <yorick> go complaining to pikka
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13:33:09 <Madassasin> another problem, whem zoomed ou on 512 x 256, the game is sorta laggy, paused with no vehicles
13:33:18 <yorick> why isn't the "Ban" string localized?
13:33:27 <yorick> Madassasin,that's the drawing that takes time
13:33:44 <Madassasin> it was faster on my old pc :|
13:33:56 <yorick> 0.6 has a new zoom-out level ;)
13:33:56 <Madassasin> if that is big, then 4024 or sth ?!
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13:34:19 <yorick> a greater zoomout level got introduced some time ago ;)
13:35:17 <Madassasin> Yea, no idea why it's so slow though :| Hmm, is ottd hardware accelerated?
13:35:41 <Madassasin> there's the problem
13:35:46 <peter1138> the new zoom out level means it has to draw 4 times as much
13:36:00 <Madassasin> didn't SDL pick up on DirectX then GDI?
13:36:15 <yorick> Madassasin: someone made an opengl patch
13:36:32 <yorick> but it's slower than GDI
13:36:33 <glx> because it doesn't need to
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13:36:54 <Madassasin> I know about that OpenGL patch
13:36:55 <peter1138> we should make sdl the default, and drop win32 :p
13:37:10 <peter1138> less code to maintain
13:37:21 <Madassasin> Yea well using DX over GDI is much better...and AFAIK SDL prefers it to GDI
13:37:31 <peter1138> and sdl should be perfectly happy on osx, no matter what bjarni says
13:37:38 <Madassasin> And OGL gets translated to DirectX, so what's the deal?
13:37:55 <yorick> you can't really compile dx on mingw
13:38:23 <yorick> I don't like installing more than 1gb of libs to build a 3mb file
13:38:47 <Madassasin> DX SDK occupies less than 100 megs
13:38:53 <peter1138> there is no DX driver
13:38:56 <Madassasin> ok, not the download :P
13:39:10 <peter1138> so you don't need dx libs
13:39:15 <peter1138> (only for music, but who cares about music)
13:39:29 <Madassasin> so you mean I dl'd it just to keep it nice?!
13:39:38 <Belugas> for music, i uase winamp :P
13:43:19 <peter1138> no you use a guitar
13:47:22 <blathijs> Hmm, when did I disappear from the "contact" page on the site?
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13:49:52 <Belugas> it must be related to your inactivity, i think
13:50:13 <DorpsGek> yorick: KUDr was last seen in #openttd 35 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 25 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <KUDr> good
13:50:25 <Belugas> yeah, that is what i was thinking
13:50:48 <Belugas> Yu want to be added, blathijs?
13:51:02 <Belugas> do you still have your openttd email?
13:55:51 <blathijs> Dunno, I never use it :-)
13:56:59 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: ludde was last seen in #openttd 24 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 33 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <ludde> :)
13:57:07 <SmatZ> even ludde was here more recently :)
14:06:40 <TiberiusTeng> the bottleneck's at sprite sorter ...
14:08:22 <TiberiusTeng> and, opengl blitter's in fact faster in some circumstances ...
14:09:14 <TiberiusTeng> something like openttdcoop final savegame, zoomed 8x out :p
14:09:34 <Belugas> [10:04] <TiberiusTeng> the bottleneck's at sprite sorter ... <--- was not that an already known and spoken out loud fact??
14:09:51 <Belugas> at least, there is someone else who knows about it...
14:09:54 <yorick> go fixing our sprite sorter
14:09:58 <TiberiusTeng> well I think it depends :P
14:10:12 <yorick> and thou shallt be rewarded
14:10:58 <TiberiusTeng> on a 8x zoomed-out openttdcoop final save (I tested with public server #96)
14:11:09 <TiberiusTeng> VC release build
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14:12:25 <TiberiusTeng> 32bpp-anim (1fps) > 32bpp-optimized (3~4 fps) > opengl (20~25fps) > 8bpp (can't measure, about 30fps I'd say)
14:12:57 <TiberiusTeng> so the sprite sorter isn't the bottleneck when using 32bpp-anim/32bpp-optimized & zoomed all the way out ...
14:13:20 <TiberiusTeng> but I wonder, if a participant has slow framerates, will he affect other players ?
14:15:24 <yorick> unless the participant is the server
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14:19:42 <TiberiusTeng> a fresh new version for you to test ...
14:20:37 <TiberiusTeng> I'd really like to see it work on ATI cards ... I've updated the binary in the thread
14:21:33 <TiberiusTeng> wait a sec, I'm making the diff (against trunk)
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14:28:03 <Madassasin> I've found a bug - my train have been loading for years yet they're 100% full!
14:28:13 <ccfreak2k> TiberiusTeng, what does it patch agains?
14:28:31 <TiberiusTeng> or you need raw opengl.cpp/hpp ?
14:28:40 <ccfreak2k> I mean what revision.
14:33:56 <Madassasin> oh, well, I saved and quit, then whilw quiting ottd crahed...filling a bug report
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14:35:09 <yorick> what's the difference between SetWindowDirty and InvalidateWindow?
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14:38:36 <TiberiusTeng> the way of choosing window I guess
14:39:40 <glx> one uses Window* the other uses WindowClass IIRC
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14:42:53 <Madassasin> I need to mention that FF was running at an alarming rate (a year in a few seconds) :P
14:43:09 <glx> Madassasin: I can't do anywthing with crash.log and crash.dmp as I don't have the corresponding openttd.pdb
14:43:32 <Madassasin> darn, shall I compile again?
14:44:14 <glx> I don't know if psb will be the same
14:45:43 <Madassasin> Ahh idn't notice that
14:46:21 <glx> Madassasin: anyway you should have the right pdb if you didn't recompile since you build the your current openttd.exe
14:46:57 <Madassasin> well I usually delete objs folder so it's gone
14:47:25 <glx> yorick: debug info for MSVC builds
14:50:30 <yorick> why is the client window redrawn, but my own window not?
14:50:37 <ccfreak2k> turning on all of my "nice" options no longer causes the text to look like shit/
14:50:56 <TiberiusTeng> how about panning ? is it working ?
14:51:09 <ccfreak2k> Scrolling is fixed.
14:51:40 <ccfreak2k> It's kind of slow though.
14:51:48 <ccfreak2k> When panning at high resolutions.
14:52:06 <ccfreak2k> Something's wrong./
14:54:38 <dih> yorick: define client window and your own window
14:56:02 <yorick> but if I use 2 lines to redraw both my window and the client window, only the client window is redrawn
14:56:21 *** Osai is now known as Osai^away
14:56:24 <dih> or you are another client
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14:58:40 <TiberiusTeng> Mchl also posted in the forum mentioning about line cropping weirdness
14:58:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
14:59:18 <TiberiusTeng> stills some bugfixing to do ... but the foundation's done :D
15:02:00 <yorick> does SetWidgetLoweredState also need any redrawing after it?
15:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> the picture looks fun ;)
15:04:49 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, does reloading the game / returning to title screen fix this problem ? :p
15:05:17 <TiberiusTeng> because I've met this problem too, but a bit random, so I haven't nailed it yet.
15:06:50 <ccfreak2k> No matter how many times I start a new game on any terrain, the flat tiles for the non-desert and non-snow tiles are missing.
15:07:15 <ccfreak2k> They AREN'T missing on the title screen, though.
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15:09:15 <blathijs> Belugas: Took a while, but it seems my @openttd.org adress still works :-)
15:11:21 <ccfreak2k> Also TiberiusTeng, changing the window resolution using one of the pre-baked resolutions in the options screen still causes the screen to become black.
15:14:30 <TiberiusTeng> yep ... I should completely disable that menu ...
15:16:02 <TiberiusTeng> maximizing the window sometimes will cause freeze on my pc
15:16:32 <TiberiusTeng> and I just fixed a panning-transparency-smearing bug here :p
15:16:54 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, you said it's slow, can you describe it more clearly?
15:17:10 <ccfreak2k> The framerate is just low while scrolling.
15:17:25 <TiberiusTeng> how about FF pressed?
15:17:56 <ccfreak2k> Makes no difference to framerate.
15:18:04 <TiberiusTeng> I don't feel much difference while scrolling
15:18:21 <ccfreak2k> Fraps says ~140 FPS while idle at farthest zoom, and 4FPS when scrolling.
15:18:52 <TiberiusTeng> how about disabling fraps ?
15:19:03 <TiberiusTeng> is the number on your picture drawn by fraps ?
15:19:21 <ccfreak2k> Actually, the framerate is drawn using ATI Tray Tools.
15:19:29 <ccfreak2k> It just happens to have the same font..
15:20:24 <Belugas> ok blathijs. as time allows it, you'llbe added. Under which labeling?
15:21:23 <TiberiusTeng> how about disabling it ?
15:23:22 <blathijs> Belugas: Not sure you should bother, I haven't been really committing anything lately :-)
15:23:50 <blathijs> If I really want to be there, I can add myself :-)
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15:34:42 <TiberiusTeng> perhaps you can try isloating that issue? I don't have hardware to experiment :Q
15:35:03 <TiberiusTeng> you're running debug build ?
15:36:01 <TiberiusTeng> hmm ... this doesn't seem to be a problem, my debug build won't stall
15:38:23 <ccfreak2k> The "build solution" icon sort of looks like a birthday cake.
15:39:01 <TiberiusTeng> ah, texture interpolation
15:39:08 <TiberiusTeng> did you enabled that or something like AA ?
15:39:13 <TiberiusTeng> or automatic mip-map generation
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15:40:28 <ccfreak2k> Does "dither alpha" count?
15:43:06 <yorick> "mip-map", it keeps sounding funny :)
15:46:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r13639 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs):
15:46:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: rewrite 32bpp-anim and 32bpp-optimized drawing and encoding so it uses similiar scheme as 8bpp-optimized
15:46:42 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: All zoom levels are stored and a kind of RLE is used. Together with further changes and reducing number of variables, drawing is ~50% faster in average.
15:46:50 <ccfreak2k> I built a release version of openttd, and scrolling still causes the framerate to drop to sub-20 levels.
15:47:07 <SmatZ> TiberiusTeng: can you benchmark now? :)
15:47:21 <TiberiusTeng> SmatZ, what? how? :p
15:47:40 <SmatZ> yorick: it is still only drawing, not sprite sorting and so...
15:47:41 <TiberiusTeng> I'm now trying to figure out why ATI cards are slow-scrolling
15:47:54 <TiberiusTeng> oh, checkout && compile
15:47:55 <ccfreak2k> AND the missing tiles.
15:48:02 <TiberiusTeng> wait a few minutes ...
15:48:16 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, about the missing tiles, can you check it by gDEBugger ?
15:48:35 <ccfreak2k> I don't know what I'm looking for, though.
15:48:40 <TiberiusTeng> because missing just one sprite in a texture atlas is just puzzling ...
15:48:57 <TiberiusTeng> losing the same sprite every time ?
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15:49:54 <TiberiusTeng> the changeset hasn't went into hg yet ... a few more minutes ...
15:50:34 <TiberiusTeng> my english is poor :p
15:50:55 <yorick> peter1138: you should correct our developer whale on THAT particular mistake more often :)
15:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i wonder if the new ATI driver actually has improvements for my old card
15:51:44 <ccfreak2k> glPopAttrib throws GL_INVALID_OPERATION when changing to a pre-baked window resolution.
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15:53:09 <Belugas> [11:48] <yorick> peter1138: you should correct our developer whale on THAT particular mistake more often :) <--- somehow, i feel pointed...
15:54:25 <eekee> multiple rail grfs make for a crazy new rail vehicles list ^^
15:54:37 <TiberiusTeng> I never call glPopAttrib when changing resolutions :(
15:55:04 <TiberiusTeng> gDEBugger shows backtrace, where did the glPopAttrib() call originates ?
15:57:48 <ccfreak2k> InitializeOpenGL > PostDriverInit > CreateTexturePalette > DrawSpriteBuffer > DrawPointBuffer > SetGLDraw
15:58:18 <ccfreak2k> This happens in context 2...
15:58:33 <TiberiusTeng> what's context 1 doing ?
15:59:21 <TiberiusTeng> just googled that glTexImage2D() is an EXPENSIVE function on ATI boards ... maybe I can fix it in 10 minutes.
15:59:25 <ccfreak2k> There's 59 opengl calls in the history.
15:59:34 <TiberiusTeng> but let me try the shiny new 32bpp blitters first :)
15:59:59 <ccfreak2k> But it happens right there.
16:00:13 <ccfreak2k> Blitter_GL::SetGLDraw - opengl.cpp, line 411.
16:00:57 <TiberiusTeng> SmatZ, 32bpp-optimized still doing 0.5fps on my PC ...
16:01:06 <TiberiusTeng> did you tried that savegame before ?
16:02:02 <SmatZ> TiberiusTeng: :-x what savegame?
16:02:04 <yorick> TiberiusTeng: did you try looking at that line combined with the previous correction? :-P
16:03:24 <Belugas> yorick, why do you need to show the mute status on clients?
16:03:35 <yorick> because it is a rcon gui
16:03:44 <Belugas> that is not an answer
16:03:45 <TiberiusTeng> Public Server Game 96
16:03:53 <TiberiusTeng> there's a link to needed GRFs
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16:03:59 <ccfreak2k> You know, like a chicken coop.
16:03:59 <yorick> in fact, it's an answer ;)
16:04:08 <Belugas> well... sorry, but not in my book
16:04:36 <TiberiusTeng> past tense will become my nightmares
16:04:40 <yorick> for the client to know if he's in fact disabling or enabling the mute
16:05:00 <TiberiusTeng> try zoom all the way out ...
16:05:05 <SmatZ> TiberiusTeng: how do you measure FPS? do you redraw whole screen each tick?
16:05:34 <TiberiusTeng> I used Fraps to measure fps
16:06:02 <Belugas> yorick, let's imagine for one second that i do not have the fainted idea what a rcon is, nor what the mute fonction is suposed to do
16:06:24 <Belugas> and that for answering your question, one wold need to know the whole situation
16:06:25 <TiberiusTeng> and I swap buffer in videodriver MainLoop()
16:06:36 <ccfreak2k> "Detected error: The debugged process asked for an extension function pointer (glGenProgramsARB) from one render context, but called this function pointer in another render context (context #2)"
16:07:20 <TiberiusTeng> shit, threading problem
16:07:42 <ccfreak2k> This happens after changing to a pre-baked resolution in windowed mode.
16:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: rcon is the remote control for a dedicated server
16:08:07 <ccfreak2k> Does this for that, glBindProgramsARB and glProgramStringARB.
16:08:11 <yorick> ok. With mute, you can disable a client from saying things, configurable to All-chat, Client-chat, Team-chat and any combination of that. You can enable it by doing "mute clientid type" in console.
16:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: so the rcon gui should display/access what the server should do
16:08:19 <TiberiusTeng> SmatZ, I believe Fraps is timing the difference between first OpenGL draw call and buffer swapping call
16:08:24 <ccfreak2k> Then glPopAttrib gets GL_INVALID_OPERATION sometime later.
16:08:48 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, I think I'll nuke that menu NOW ...
16:08:51 <yorick> And in order for you to know what the server's gonna do, you need the current state, as it toggles the function.
16:09:02 <Belugas> now that is way better, thanks guys
16:10:03 <ccfreak2k> I'm not sure why a pre-baked resolution should be any different from resizing the window.
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16:10:34 <Belugas> so, the idea is that the mute status that is currently set on the server would be available to all users inorder for the remote one to toggle it. right?
16:11:20 <planetmaker> I guess. Unless there's a better solution.
16:11:34 <TiberiusTeng> I think it's recreating the window (destroy-create) but perhaps in a different thread ...
16:11:43 <Belugas> i wonder, is there some kind of an authentification scheme that allows one user to control the server? or is it for all to play with? I doubt. So, why not make the remove visible only for those with proper access?
16:11:47 <TiberiusTeng> let me fix ATI scrolling first ...
16:12:01 <yorick> Belugas: it is for all with the rcon password
16:12:31 <Belugas> ok. so, what is dih against it?
16:12:38 <Belugas> as an admin, he must have a good argument
16:13:06 <yorick> [16:59] <@dih> yorick: i still dont think mute should be transmitted to clients
16:13:13 <yorick> [17:00] <@dih> other clients dont need that info
16:13:34 <Belugas> or are you sending it to all clients?
16:13:37 <yorick> you aren't actually authorized
16:13:55 <yorick> so the only way I can think of is sending it to all
16:14:21 <Belugas> a hacked client can fool with it
16:14:40 <planetmaker> Belugas: in order to modify things, you need the server password
16:14:43 <yorick> the only thing they'd know is that they're actually muted
16:14:45 <Belugas> that's you to find out :)
16:15:14 <SpComb> yorick: why does a client need to know if they or some other client is muted?
16:15:16 <planetmaker> yorick: Do I understand correctly, that you send client-side generated console commands which incorporate the rcon pw?
16:15:33 <Ammler> yorick: that sounds more like a ignore function.
16:15:45 <yorick> a server-side ignore function
16:15:53 <Belugas> that users can toggle...
16:16:09 <planetmaker> Only those which know the server password
16:16:10 <yorick> only the users with the rcon password can change it
16:16:16 <Ammler> mute does a client automatically, if he doesn't chat :-)
16:16:33 <yorick> someone +q Ammler, please
16:16:39 <yorick> then he'd know what mute means :)
16:17:08 <planetmaker> ... +m Ammler? No...
16:17:32 <planetmaker> yeah... noticed a split second too late...
16:18:25 <Belugas> yorick, you have to find a way to send the info to those who can receive it. otherwise, it's a risk
16:18:35 <yorick> everyone can receive it
16:18:47 <Belugas> do i need to repeat myself?
16:19:02 <yorick> I can't see how it is a risk?
16:19:21 <yorick> just people that know from other people that they're muted
16:19:28 <yorick> what they can see with the chat anyway
16:19:57 <Belugas> you'd be surprised to waht people can do, having enough info
16:20:50 <yorick> if someone gets muted, a *** 'playername' is muted for 'all' chat message gets displayed
16:20:57 <yorick> so people can just see it
16:21:24 <yorick> and, yes, I ASKED you for a way to send the info to those who can receive it, not for a confirmation :)
16:22:28 <Belugas> i gave you antoher way
16:22:39 <Belugas> send it to those who can receive it
16:23:03 <Belugas> i don't know how, i'm debugging my own app
16:23:04 <yorick> ok, then I ask you, can you think of a way to send the info to those who can receive it?
16:23:19 <Belugas> do you have alist of available connected clients?
16:25:15 <Belugas> how many meanings can be given out of my question?
16:25:23 <Belugas> a list, an array, whatever...
16:25:53 <yorick> a list of all players that show up on wwottdgd
16:26:07 <yorick> or a list of all possible openttd versions that can connect to wwottdgd
16:26:34 <planetmaker> a list of clients which know the rcon password
16:26:43 <Yexo> yorick: he probebly means FOR_ALL_CLIENTS is availbable to walk through all connected clients
16:26:58 <yorick> we'll let him explain it
16:28:23 <Belugas> Yexo wins a cookie for not been blind
16:28:33 * Belugas sends a cookie to Yexo
16:28:58 * yorick intercepts cookie, divides it in 2, and sends half of cookie to Yexo
16:29:28 * yorick feeds planetmaker a cookie
16:29:48 * planetmaker wonders about the origins of that cookie :)
16:29:56 * Belugas kicks yorick on the back of his head, so he now spits out the unrewarded cookie
16:30:14 * planetmaker eats half a cookie despite :)
16:30:35 <planetmaker> ... and produces some cake, distributing it to Belugas, Yexo and Yorick
16:30:38 * Yexo thinks now it is Belugas who cannot read, since yorick didn't eat any cookie :)
16:31:09 <yorick> I gave another half-a-cookie to planetmaker
16:31:31 <Yexo> anyway, how does the rcon password stuff work, it the password send with every command or just once?
16:32:22 <planetmaker> AFAIK the rcon gui is a client-side only thing
16:32:44 <yorick> at least, it adds some GUI functionality to the server
16:32:52 <TiberiusTeng> if a client crashes, will it bring down the game ?
16:35:56 * Belugas sends yorick checking over what NetworkClientInfo could do for him
16:36:13 <yorick> I know what it could do for me
16:36:23 <yorick> just I want a client-side only patch
16:37:01 <yorick> however, then I wouldn't be able to have that mute gui
16:37:18 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, around ?
16:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> yorick: then you have to ask the server repeatedly about the mute state (if such a command exists)
16:37:26 <yorick> I made a whole authorizing system for 0.6 somewhere :)
16:37:37 <yorick> but I don't like that either
16:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, that is really the only option
16:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> you will not get the server to notify of any changes
16:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> with a clientside patch
16:38:17 <yorick> or I should be able to send a request to recieve mute updates from then on
16:38:29 <TiberiusTeng> against current opengl code
16:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> yorick: or generally send each client a notification "XXX has been muted"
16:39:09 <TiberiusTeng> try if this cures the scrolling issue ...
16:39:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> IRC does this, too
16:39:25 <yorick> Eddi|zuHause3,that's the idea tho
16:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> so, what is your problem?
16:39:48 <yorick> but both dih and belugas do
16:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> then go find that out :p
16:40:17 <yorick> Belugas says that people can do things with the info
16:40:23 <TiberiusTeng> seems a X800 series problem ... hmm.
16:40:54 <TiberiusTeng> but I never used the Z-buffer :Q
16:41:24 <TiberiusTeng> anyway it increased the scrolling speed on my computer too ... :p
16:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> remind me to never get involved in opengl magic
16:42:26 <ccfreak2k> Scrolling is still slow on the farthest zoom level, but it is or close to full speed on the closest and second closest zoom.
16:42:31 <yorick> Belugas: if clients get a chat notification of the move anyway, what is the problem exactly?
16:42:43 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, same here. another problem solved. :P
16:42:59 <ccfreak2k> Guess it's solved then.
16:43:01 <TiberiusTeng> (with the cost of another window-sized permanent texture ...)
16:43:09 <TiberiusTeng> anyway, pack & release!
16:43:21 <ccfreak2k> We still gotta contend with the missing tiles.
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16:44:20 <Belugas> network is not my stuff, really
16:45:08 <Belugas> but i know that you should not send stuff to everyone when it is only for a few restructed people
16:45:17 <Belugas> that is the basis of security
16:45:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> like i said, IRC does this, too
16:45:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> it notifies every user of mode changes
16:45:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> not just the ops
16:46:00 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, it keeps black when zoomed out ?
16:46:05 <Belugas> otherwise, you keep on thinking it does not matter, and add more stuff alike and one day, you'll have people sending spams over the network
16:46:20 <ccfreak2k> Just that one specific type of flat tile is just...missing.
16:47:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: channel modes (+c, +m); user modes (+o, +b) etc.
16:47:23 <Belugas> anyway... i don't care... it's not for trunk, afer all...
16:47:26 <Belugas> granted Eddi|zuHause3
16:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, +b is not really a user mode
16:47:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r13640 /trunk/src/blitter/ (32bpp_anim.cpp 32bpp_base.hpp 32bpp_optimized.cpp): -Codechange: make colours behind not fully solid objects less darker for BM_TRANSPARENT (for 32bpp blitters)
16:49:19 <TiberiusTeng> the same tile's missing every time ? @_@
16:49:31 <TiberiusTeng> but it didn't happen before I think ?
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16:50:51 <ccfreak2k> Nope. Previous versions had those tiles.
16:51:08 <ccfreak2k> AFAICT it happened with whatever you changed last night to fix scrolling.
16:56:21 <planetmaker> btw, yorick, is the rcon gui patch available somewhere? :)
16:56:49 <planetmaker> I'm strongly interested in it :)
16:58:02 <yorick> first making some minor ajustments
16:58:18 <planetmaker> hehe. Perfectionist speaking...
16:59:13 <ccfreak2k> TiberiusTeng, I was gonna try to compare the two atlases, but I can't.
16:59:18 <ccfreak2k> Not directly, anyway.
16:59:39 <TiberiusTeng> I think you can save it as a file
16:59:49 <TiberiusTeng> and compare them with GIMP, Photoshop etc
16:59:58 <ccfreak2k> But the tiles aren't in the same order.
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17:00:35 <TiberiusTeng> the old one keeps tall buildings straight ?
17:00:59 <ccfreak2k> Well, I'm comparing the main menu atlas with a new game atlas.
17:02:59 <ccfreak2k> Can you start a new mountain game and dump the atlas for me?
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17:04:01 <TiberiusTeng> sub-arctic ? sub-tropical ?
17:04:24 <ccfreak2k> Reminds me of Colorado.
17:04:55 <TiberiusTeng> damn, I see those black sprites too
17:04:59 <TiberiusTeng> so I can debug it here ...
17:05:44 <TiberiusTeng> but I think it's from some NewGRF ...
17:06:23 <ccfreak2k> I don't have any loaded.
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17:07:02 <TiberiusTeng> if I change NewGRF settings, just change it (no specific), then it becomes normal ...
17:07:13 <TiberiusTeng> there must be something wrong with my sprite management ...
17:07:19 <yorick> changing newgrf settings redraws the screen
17:09:30 <ccfreak2k> Start a new game, open newgrf window, hit apply...
17:09:41 *** Madassasin has joined #openttd
17:13:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: belugas * r13641 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix: Misleading enum name.
17:16:41 *** grumbel has joined #openttd
17:16:57 <ccfreak2k> TiberiusTeng, one of the if blocks in PostDriverInit() has a redundant conditional.
17:21:35 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, ok got it
17:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> Ammler: there was an improved version that had dirty (brown) tiles
17:22:22 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
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17:35:23 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 14 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <Bjarni> goodnight
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17:44:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: belugas * r13642 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Documentation: Add the enum values to the widget arrays, in concordance with code style
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17:47:47 <TiberiusTeng> sorry, my computer just went mad ...
17:53:22 <fjb> peter1138: Could you please add George's nshp_ecs.grf to your overrides.grf?
17:53:50 <yorick> but I think George should do that
17:54:37 <peter1138> indeed, get him to add it
17:54:54 <peter1138> overrides.grf is obsolete
17:58:50 <TiberiusTeng> peter1138, I shouldn't free() the area allocated by spritecache's allocator(), right ?
18:03:07 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
18:05:08 <Ammler> fjb: what is nshp_ecs.grf ?
18:05:51 <glx> something related to ships?
18:05:52 <yorick> most likely the ECS converter for newships
18:05:53 <fjb> Ammler: It teaches Michael's NewShips about ECS cargos.
18:06:26 <Ammler> oh, where do I get that?
18:07:03 <fjb> At the usual place. George posted it on tt-forums.
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18:08:13 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai
18:09:25 <Ammler> :oops: I missed that...
18:11:47 <Ammler> I always thought, newships works with ECS anyway...
18:13:18 <yorick> they don't understand fish
18:13:52 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
18:17:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
18:19:02 <Bjarni> let me guess. Your coding introduced yet another autoreplace "bug" that you want me to fix
18:19:54 <yorick> I was just greeting you
18:20:15 <yorick> and my "bug" turned out to be happening in a normal trunk case too
18:20:27 <yorick> so it is now an official "bug" :)
18:20:31 <Bjarni> you should greet me properly then :)
18:21:27 <Bjarni> this feels like a contradiction to what happened a few days ago
18:21:28 <yorick> Hello, sir Bjarni of the kindom of Bjarnotopia.
18:22:04 <Bjarni> one guy at uni realised that I'm an OpenTTD developer and said "wow, a famous guy!"
18:22:38 <yorick> you're known by over a 100 people
18:25:29 * Hendikins idly notes that the CityRail station information on Google Maps... well, sucks
18:26:48 <Hendikins> I did a better job over a year ago :P
18:28:02 <Bjarni> <yorick> you're known by over a 100 people <-- way more than that
18:28:57 <Bjarni> it's just that not everybody knows me for the same stuff
18:29:41 <Touqen> It's more like OVER 9000!
18:30:03 <Hendikins> I've occasionally been recognised as a Whirlpool moderator.
18:30:08 <SpComb> do OpenTTD users ever actually run into the names of devs?
18:30:09 <Hendikins> Or for my Mozilla stuff.
18:30:39 * SpComb doesn't even know what Bjarni's real name is
18:30:57 <Belugas> you already know half of his name ^_^
18:31:09 <Bjarni> well I run into OpenTTD players
18:31:12 <Belugas> or his first name at least...
18:31:26 <Bjarni> presumably they encounter a developer
18:31:52 * SpComb adds in a reference to OpenTTD to that article
18:32:25 <SmatZ> "Bjarni is believed to be the first European to view the mainland of North America" :)
18:33:24 <Bjarni> right now would be a bad time to claim not to have left Europe... so I better not
18:33:26 <yorick> "But in that summer of 985 or 986, Bjarni was blown off course by a storm with no map or compass"
18:33:53 <Bjarni> imagine to head for the ocean without a compass or a map
18:35:18 <yorick> "The land looked hospitable, but Bjarni was eager to reach Iceland to see his parents and did not land and explore the new lands."
18:35:19 <eekee> I hear the Vikings actually deliberately didn't use maps
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18:36:16 <Bjarni> gee... I get highlighted all the time
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18:37:30 <yorick> no, that's actually the discoverer of america
18:38:01 <TiberiusTeng> hmm, seems a race condition ...
18:38:30 <Bjarni> my race discovered America
18:39:08 <yorick> no, actually someone called "Bjarni"
18:39:30 <Bjarni> can you prove that we aren't related?
18:40:06 <yorick> can you prove that you arE?
18:41:22 <SpComb> that Bjarni was a kind of weird personality
18:41:38 <SpComb> although that wikipedia article on Bjarni is also written in a rather weird style
18:41:42 <Bjarni> are you trying to insult me?
18:42:18 <SpComb> no, but the way the article is written seems to indicate such
18:42:22 * Bjarni decides to go pick up the Grœnlendinga saga
18:42:35 <Bjarni> then I have to walk all the way to the bookcase
18:44:17 <Ammler> yorick: fish is no problem for NewShips
18:45:59 <Bjarni> I guess I solved my issue about what to do tonight :)
18:46:44 <TiberiusTeng> map generator loads a sprite and call Encode()
18:46:46 <Bjarni> yorick started talking about an Icelandic saga
18:46:51 <Bjarni> about a guy named Bjarni
18:46:56 <yorick> SpComb started the Bjarni name
18:47:05 <TiberiusTeng> but main thread will sometimes try to draw that sprite before it's been Encode()d
18:47:07 <Bjarni> now I want to read that saga
18:47:25 <yorick> lets revert that vehicle backups
18:47:35 <yorick> until they cause less bugs than they fix
18:47:50 <Bjarni> and unlike you uncivilised savages I actually have books like that ready in case of events like this :)
18:48:07 <Hendikins> Hrm, must have a new signaller at Sydenham box. They don't normally call us at all about alterations to train running, let alone at 4:40am...
18:48:20 <SpComb> TiberiusTeng: you're trying to multithread the blitter/gfx code?
18:48:41 <yorick> now that would be interesting
18:48:52 <Bjarni> yorick: are you reading about events 1000 years ago... online?
18:49:03 <Bjarni> who do you think blogged back then?
18:49:05 <SpComb> yorick: you mean a horror
18:49:17 <Bjarni> and paid for the server to be up all that time
18:49:19 <TiberiusTeng> I'm just trying to cope with map generating thread
18:50:07 <yorick> Bjarni: no, I download the books
18:51:59 <Bjarni> Belugas: for the record... I'm working on the cargo crash in autoreplace
18:52:07 <Bjarni> I just don't know when it will be done yet
18:52:26 <yorick> better work on the free money bug :)
18:52:55 <TiberiusTeng> SpComb, OpenGL context is thread specific, so I can't do Encode() in map generating thread
18:53:07 <Belugas> yorick, maybe you can try to fix it? I'm sure you can
18:53:13 <Belugas> go on boy, don't be shy!
18:53:28 <Belugas> yorick! yorick! yorick!
18:53:30 <TiberiusTeng> so I ran into some synchronization problems now ...
18:53:33 <yorick> Belugas: I know an easy way to fix it
18:53:45 <yorick> called "check for money so it doesn't fail"
18:53:57 <yorick> but it could fail in over 3000 ways
18:54:12 <Phantasm> Belugas: How is the patch? ;P
18:54:18 <yorick> and I don't have much knowledge about the backups that cause it
18:55:24 <Belugas> Phantasm, i tried and tried and tried several approaches
18:55:33 <Belugas> none are satisfactory
18:56:27 <Belugas> Rubidium mentionned he might have another approach, but as of now, he did not shown me anything
18:57:00 <yorick> belugas: he did not shown?
18:57:05 <Belugas> yorick, it's about industries not been able to "regenerate" fast enough comparing to the closure rates when using large maps
18:57:18 <Belugas> he has not showed it?
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18:58:02 <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: one small addition to the NewGRF GUI, you should be able to remove a GRF with double click as you are able to add it
18:58:15 <Belugas> welll... i'm sorry, but i think that as a non native english speaker, i;m doing quite well thank you :P
18:59:50 <Belugas> problem with the code I have is that the random production-change and industry creation messages are bringing way too many news events
19:00:09 <Belugas> and not showing them is not really a good idea either
19:00:33 <Belugas> so... let say a good solution has yet to be found
19:02:23 <Phantasm> Belugas: Hmmn.. How about user customable filtering of them?
19:02:44 <Phantasm> Say, own, competitor, production level, ...
19:03:14 <Phantasm> Or in the area of towns you have something.
19:03:17 <Belugas> only the last filer you mentionned is a good one
19:03:32 <Belugas> ho...that one too, but it's a bit irrelevant
19:04:06 <Phantasm> So one could for example set himself to only see production changes and new industries that he has station connecting to or production is over 200.
19:04:07 <Belugas> type wold be a good one. cargo produced/accepted (maybe both)
19:04:25 <yorick> Phantasm, the station connecting one is already there
19:04:28 <Belugas> ho god... that would be like a rule system...
19:04:47 <Belugas> yorick, not necessary
19:05:25 <yorick> Belugas: we have the industry production changes from the ones you service, no?
19:07:08 <Phantasm> We have industry production changes from everything currently?
19:07:22 <Belugas> mmh... we do... how nice
19:07:35 <Phantasm> The problem there are too many of em. ;P
19:07:35 <Belugas> was not aware, or didn't remember
19:07:49 <TiberiusTeng> oh no, I'm idiot
19:08:12 <Belugas> you know waht? I think i'm going to retire as a dev for a few weeks
19:08:19 <Belugas> and i'm gonna play instead
19:09:29 <Phantasm> Belugas: I think it should be so that user could add any number of rules that show every matching one.. Say one rule is to show everything connected to own stations, another rule could be to show anything over 200 production, third rule could be to show any new ones in towns you have something in. That could be well customised to whatever and could have lots of options.
19:09:44 <TiberiusTeng> ahh ... why the sprite's on the "PALETTE" texture ... >_<
19:10:14 <Phantasm> Belugas: Even as much as different production limits to show depending on where it is located to etc.
19:11:19 <TiberiusTeng> ccfreak2k, still here?
19:12:13 <Belugas> the idea is interesting, Phantasm
19:12:19 <TiberiusTeng> add this->SetGLActiveTex(0); after this->SetGLTex2D(true);
19:12:38 <TiberiusTeng> I think it'll cure the black sprite problem
19:12:43 <ccfreak2k> I need to see if I fixed my garrysmod server.
19:13:02 <TiberiusTeng> if it goes well, I'll pack it, put it on forum and go sleep
19:13:07 <TiberiusTeng> 03:00 already ...
19:14:52 <Belugas> yup... the afternoon is well advanced :)
19:15:53 <glx> only 12hours offset between you ;)
19:16:23 <TiberiusTeng> I mean 03:00, not 15:00 :p
19:16:49 <glx> but for Belugas, it's 15:00
19:18:47 <ccfreak2k> Yep, looks fixed to me.
19:19:12 <ccfreak2k> Is the text always supposed to look "nice"?
19:21:31 <TiberiusTeng> you can delete the font settings in .cfg
19:21:39 <TiberiusTeng> and it'll revert to original GRF font
19:22:53 <ccfreak2k> So it is intentional behavior.
19:23:09 <ccfreak2k> In that case, I don't think there's any more bugs, other than the inherent uselessness of it. :)
19:23:48 <TiberiusTeng> thanks for your help in these weeks ...
19:25:48 <Bjarni> <yorick> better work on the free money bug :) <-- my plan will modify the place where the bug is and it's not unlikely that it will go away on it's own if I just do as I planned
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19:51:24 * Belugas is on Sigur Rs - lafoss
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20:04:21 <Belugas> hoping the same on your side of the screen :)
20:05:49 <dragonhorseboy> doing okay actually ^-^
20:15:26 <dragonhorseboy> you doing anything belugas?
20:16:40 <Belugas> still working at work
20:19:34 <Belugas> ho .. and having fun with the toolbars too...
20:20:03 * Belugas is not a big feature guy
20:20:44 *** izhirahi1er is now known as izhirahider
20:38:11 <Bjarni> Belugas: looks like you don't need to be. You managed to get married anyway ;)
20:39:07 <Belugas> ho ho ho... very funny :)
20:49:29 <dragonhorseboy> how're you sacro?
20:49:29 <dragonhorseboy> (and sorry about yesterday...but hm well I'm free now if you still want to)
20:50:30 <Sacro> meh, fine, tired though
20:51:29 <dragonhorseboy> ah hm well either westbury (so you can do as much or as little as you want) or just save it for another day?
20:54:33 <dragonhorseboy> sacro ok its on
20:55:27 <Bjarni> well there are other people in this channel
20:55:41 <Bjarni> I have an announcement: I'm done reading the saga about Bjarni Herjólfsson
20:56:09 <Bjarni> and figured out why he didn't set foot on America even though he came close to the shore
20:56:23 <Bjarni> now the question is if anybody who cared are still present
20:56:47 <Bjarni> Sacro: Nobody asked you :P
20:57:16 <Sacro> Bjarni: nobody answered you
20:57:31 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Nobody loves you.
20:57:33 <planetmaker> Bjarni: do you recommend reading that saga?
20:57:45 <Bjarni> it seems likely to end up in America if you head for the southern point of Greenland and encounters both a storm and fog
20:58:06 <Sacro> that's how asterix found england
20:58:12 <Sacro> or was it how he knew he'd arrived.. .
20:58:13 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Nobody loves me.
20:58:22 <Bjarni> planetmaker: I recommend that everybody should read all the sagas and understand them so yes :)
20:58:40 <planetmaker> uh... a livetime of reading ahead of me :)
20:59:08 <Sacro> it is when you listen to Bjarni
21:00:15 <planetmaker> probably it goes along the lines "style only looks like arrogance from below"
21:00:30 <Bjarni> remember that the sagas are written as rimes because "skalde" travelled around and had to remember all of it before it was written
21:00:40 <Bjarni> this gives a natural max length of each saga
21:00:45 <planetmaker> "educated talk sounds like babble for the unknowing"
21:01:09 <planetmaker> Well... The Ilias isn't that short either :)
21:01:24 <Bjarni> interesting... skald is actually an English word
21:01:32 <Bjarni> they stole a word from us >_<
21:01:36 <Bjarni> yet another one that is
21:01:53 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: YOu should know.
21:02:11 <Prof_Frink> If you copy from one source, it's stealing/plagiarism
21:02:28 <Prof_Frink> If you copy from many sources, as in English, it's research.
21:03:03 <planetmaker> Bjarni: I think that word exist in more languages :)
21:03:41 <Bjarni> basically English received a lot of words from Scandinavia when people moved from Denmark and Norway to England
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21:04:51 <planetmaker> anyway, tiredness dictates to say goodbye. So cu another day :)
21:04:53 <Bjarni> basically town names ending on "-by" is of Viking origin. The word "by" is still in use and means town
21:05:01 <Bjarni> town is another word English got at that time
21:05:10 <planetmaker> I'll put it on my to-read list though :)
21:05:16 <Bjarni> planetmaker: is it that tiresome to make planets?
21:05:31 <planetmaker> yes, it is... it's a damn dusty business.
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21:13:42 <Bjarni> more interesting reading :D
21:13:57 <Bjarni> on an interesting subject I already know something about
21:14:51 <Bjarni> we do that at our uni too
21:15:06 <Bjarni> but we do not intend to get the dust to gather... it just happens :P
21:16:33 <planetmaker> hehe. Yes, it does. :) Fortunately
21:17:05 <Bjarni> it resulted in a somewhat funny phonecall
21:17:14 <planetmaker> which universiy are you at?
21:17:35 <Bjarni> somebody called a mobile phone and the guy answered and said he didn't really want to have a long conversation in the position he was in
21:18:05 <Bjarni> "I'm lying under a table in the basement fixing cable connections and it looks like nobody cleaned this room for years"
21:18:49 <planetmaker> Moving some furniture today in our library, we found such spots, too...
21:19:39 <Bjarni> you know the basement is what you expect of say old bunkers... concrete constructions under ground with no natural light and it's usually dim lit as well
21:19:57 <Bjarni> and once in a while water leaks in
21:20:32 <planetmaker> or really flows in, if the water pipe breaks :P
21:20:46 <Bjarni> the water is not from pipes
21:20:59 <Bjarni> I think it's condensed water or rain water
21:21:19 <planetmaker> depends upon the state of the building :)
21:21:24 <Bjarni> however they dug up a lot not long ago because of an incident with rain water
21:21:55 <Bjarni> the heating pipes are down there as well
21:22:04 <Bjarni> and they are like half a meter in diameter
21:22:49 <planetmaker> yep :). The old heating pipes didn't look nice when they were replaced...
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21:23:45 <glx> there's always powerlines near water pipes
21:24:04 <Bjarni> the basement was built in the 1960s... and rumours has it that they did add stuff down there that should be used in case of a nuclear war
21:24:32 <Bjarni> but... I don't know if it's true
21:25:00 <planetmaker> at least you know that your building has decent foundations.
21:25:11 <Bjarni> and I know for sure that if nobody looked at it for the past 40 years I guess it's not only outdated but also not in mint condition anymore
21:26:08 <planetmaker> Our basement could be the setting for a movie as creepy as Blair Witch Project or so...
21:26:39 <glx> there's a forest in your basement?
21:26:46 <Bjarni> I remember when we produced some electric circuits on our own. We (like 6 people) were alone in the basement and somehow it became a bit spooky when the clock passed 22:00 and everybody else had left
21:27:00 <planetmaker> glx: maybe in some places where there's no light anymore :)
21:27:30 <Bjarni> the underground railroad line passing the botanic garden in Glasgow is now a forest
21:28:12 <Bjarni> I saw some pictures taken by a guy who found a crack in the barriers meant to keep people out of the now rather dangerous tunnel system
21:29:50 <planetmaker> anyway, good night to you all now. I'm so sleepyyyyyyyyyyyyy
21:31:01 <Bjarni> google is good at finding URLs that you forgot ;)
21:31:49 <Bjarni> I wouldn't be surprised if they left the tracks there and there still are some rusty iron bars underneath all those plants
21:32:13 <Bjarni> I don't get the idea of graffiti on a station that's sealed off though
21:32:20 <Bjarni> it's not like people will see it
21:32:39 <glx> it's like putting them in tunnels
21:33:02 <glx> though there's light when a train pass
21:33:23 <Bjarni> it's not like this station will see that many trains anymore
21:33:44 <Bjarni> it's interesting to see how many plants can live with virtually no light
21:33:56 <Bjarni> all the light is from ventilation ducts
21:34:19 <Bjarni> and I have no idea of how many they left unblocked from the surface side
21:35:27 <Bjarni> I will say that this railline is pretty impressive by itself. It linked the southern station with the northern one by a tunnel under the city and under the river
21:35:31 <Bjarni> and it's from the steam era
21:35:51 <Bjarni> I bet those guys really had ventilation issues XD
21:37:53 <glx> well steam is not the problem
21:38:37 <Bjarni> the coal smoke could be
21:39:02 <Bjarni> they had to custom build the locomotives to allow the driver to see anything
21:39:19 <Bjarni> and yes it's a steam train and yes I took the picture myself
21:39:38 <Bjarni> and no it's not a custom built one for tunnels so it was running on low power
21:42:49 <Sacro> you can go twice as fast!
21:43:12 <Bjarni> that remains to be seen
21:43:25 <Bjarni> one green: permission to pass the signal
21:43:54 <Prof_Frink> supergreen: Floor it, mofo
21:43:56 <Sacro> permission to pass the next signal
21:43:59 <Bjarni> an additional green: no change in the permission here but it informs that at least one green light is lit on the next signal
21:44:12 <Sacro> home + distant combined
21:44:26 <Sacro> green green, green yellow, or red
21:44:29 <Bjarni> which basically means that you do not have to slow down and prepare to stop at the next signal if it's near and behind a curve
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21:47:37 <Bjarni> there is this very basic rule: if the signal shows something unexpected then you stop at the signal and call the station manager
21:49:14 <Bjarni> it would however be really interesting to see on a Danish signal (and possibly other signals as well) because they lack control of the red light bulb. The red light works on a relay activating if there is a current through the green bulb and the red is lit in case of no current
21:49:20 <Bjarni> it's as simple as that
21:49:49 * Bjarni almost wrote "hello Night"
21:50:03 <Bjarni> this would be fitting for our current time frame though
21:50:33 <Nite> onece again i was concerned with planecrashes+
21:50:54 <Nite> is there anything that makes tem mre likely/unlikely ?
21:51:42 <Nite> or ist it just pure luck?
21:52:31 <ln> at least don't use small airports.
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22:11:59 <Bjarni> when you make a summery you are summerising... but how do you spell the last word?... I can't figure it out (or my dictionary lacks the word)
22:13:44 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Summery: Like summer. Summary: A brief outline of the item.
22:13:56 <Bjarni> ok I got that word wrong as well >_<
22:14:10 <Bjarni> I mean I read a text and then I tell the content
22:14:31 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Well, you made the same mistake on t'other one
22:15:48 <Nite> the spring is over and now its summerrising. ;P
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23:07:24 <Nite> is there any reason for the "transfer" order without "leave empty" ??
23:08:16 <Nite> vehicles unload and load - there is almost no use for this
23:13:52 <Nite> you mean "yes there is no use"
23:15:25 <Nite> ... i was trying to bus pax to an airport leave them there and take other pax that arrive there, but i guess thats no option so far.
23:15:53 <Nite> .- yes its about pax transfer.
23:17:31 <Nite> well .. there is also no use for cargo transfer withpout the "leave empty" order
23:19:42 <Belugas> Nite, i would say that for YOU, there is none.
23:20:05 <Belugas> but if it's there, then, to as least the dev who did them, there is.
23:20:25 <Nite> well id like 2 say "i see none"
23:20:59 <Nite> that there is always another vehicle waiting at the transferstation ...
23:22:06 <SmatZ> what hasn't been really solved yet
23:22:17 <Nite> i found plenty of uses for it "with" the unload attached
23:22:22 <SmatZ> is that a vehicle will transfer & load the same pax / cargo it unloaded
23:23:22 <Nite> thats true smatz and was what i was reffering to.
23:24:27 <Nite> you can work around that with 2 seperate "departure and arrival" stations
23:24:50 <Nite> but its not an option with planes becauce they have to take of to go to another station.
23:25:36 <SmatZ> because even if you checked the last vehicle the cargo was in
23:25:47 <SmatZ> then another aircraft could pickup that cargo
23:25:55 <SmatZ> and not buses designed for that
23:26:06 <Nite> guess you had to rebuild the whole airport part of the game.
23:26:28 <SmatZ> coding wouldn't be that hard
23:26:38 <eekee> what if you checked the previous station the cargo went to?
23:26:51 <Nite> or have airpoprts witch already have seperate "arrival" and "departure"
23:27:24 <SmatZ> eekee: that would be possible, but then another aicraft could still pickup that
23:27:44 <SmatZ> Nite: yeah, you can have stations logicaly divided to several segments
23:27:46 <Nite> you already can build arrival and departure easyly with train/ship/rv
23:28:02 <SmatZ> where vehicles from one segment can't pickup cargo transferred from the same logical segment
23:28:06 <eekee> SmatZ: well, at least it wouldn't be an aircraft heading back to the passengers' originating airport
23:28:42 <SmatZ> there is problem with trains
23:28:51 <SmatZ> say you have route with n stations
23:29:01 <SmatZ> and one terminal where you transfer + load
23:29:14 <SmatZ> then you would have to check all stations in orders
23:29:21 <SmatZ> hmmm maybe not really an issue
23:29:24 <Nite> i think the "cant pickup from destination" is almost obsolete with seperated stations.
23:30:33 <SmatZ> maybe not that problematic
23:30:39 <Nite> no its not an "issue" still the train has to go into one part of the station go out (depot or track) and in again on the other part of the sttion
23:30:40 <SmatZ> but if you use RVs to transfer pax to rail station
23:30:48 <SmatZ> then you take them by train...
23:31:02 <SmatZ> you would have to remember last station they visited, not the original
23:31:22 <SmatZ> but it is probably already implemented for cargo credits
23:32:09 <SmatZ> I hope users would understad such behaviour :)
23:32:13 <Nite> i got it - you would have to check the last station in order but then again the next and maybee all others
23:32:23 <Nite> and hey THIS is complicated
23:32:46 <SmatZ> so store list of stations the cargopacket visited?
23:33:44 <ccfreak2k> Why are there silicon bridges for roads?
23:33:53 <ccfreak2k> It's not like there's any 380MPH lorries
23:34:11 <Nite> someone could write a newgrf with that jetbus or smthng
23:34:35 <ccfreak2k> The Darwin Express.
23:34:54 <Nite> i have the idea of a station having seperat arrival and departure storage!
23:34:56 <ccfreak2k> It picks up passengers, then plows into a wall at the destination at 600MPH.
23:36:11 <Nite> so you can "transfer" pax/cargo to that departure storage and the next vehicle than only takes from departure again but leaves its cargo at "arrival" where the first vehicle takes it from
23:37:18 <Nite> with that method you would not nead checking of where cargo came from at all!
23:39:09 <Nite> or not only "arrival" departure" but just many slots, cargodepots, warehouses, or how you would call them
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23:44:14 <eekee> that does sound simpler, especially if it is only arival & departure
23:44:56 <eekee> I'm not sure it would work so well though
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23:45:56 <Nite> well arrival and departure (the words) only make sense sometimes
23:46:26 <Nite> it only would be transparent if you could name your slots like station names like:
23:47:11 <Nite> "maize from A" or "pax from groompytown"
23:48:42 <Nite> now for example you could make an order for any vehicle to load from "maize from a"
23:49:15 <Nite> so the vehicle would only load what it should without the need to check its other orders at all.
23:49:59 <Nite> am i going way to far into "undooable" with this idea ?
23:50:45 <eekee> I quite like it, but the UI might seem complicated
23:51:32 <Nite> you yust would have two or more signs over a station than yust one (!)
23:52:23 <eekee> maybe, I can't really picture it working.
23:52:31 <Nite> not perfectly because you actually click station tiles and not signs to make an order
23:53:04 <Nite> imagine you would make an order by klicking its sign
23:53:28 <Nite> now you have a station (1 or more lane no mather)
23:54:10 <Nite> with as much signs as you like representing a different station (slot) using the same station
23:54:42 <Nite> "wood" "pax from A" pax from "b" and so on ...
23:55:19 <eekee> yeah, but you would be changing that one thing and you would have hundreds of people asking "how the #$%^&* do you make an order now?????"
23:57:11 <Nite> ... hmmm yeah how the +*/& to solve that ;)
23:59:03 <Nite> i really dislike another gui window for every new invention
23:59:20 <Nite> in 1.0 you would have 100 different windows
23:59:58 <Nite> i already dislike timetables :-x
continue to next day ⏵
