IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-06-15
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02:48:49 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13519 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp:
02:48:49 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Feature[newGRF]: Implement var 63, variational action2 variable for Houses.
02:48:49 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: Or, in more simple terms, the check for the animation frame of nearby house.
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11:43:33 <dih> Ammler: _42_ is not in here!
11:44:35 <ccfreak2k> It's really tough getting everything I need to get timidity to play midis...
11:44:36 <Ammler> if he asks you why you pinged him, tell him, I was wondering, why he stopped the NAND gate.
11:46:35 <Sacro> ccfreak2k: all of 2 packages
11:47:15 <ccfreak2k> Well, one, but I'm missing a bunch of patches apparently.
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12:04:08 <Ammler> we found a bug (or missing feature) in conditional orders
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12:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> i know one: nondeterministic (random) branch
12:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> but that would need some lookahead probably
12:14:20 <frosch123> you can also extend the "no stop"-flag towards signals
12:16:02 <Ammler> well, it's more a bug then a missing feature
12:16:57 <Ammler> trains don't turn around in stations, if the next station is backwards
12:17:53 <Ammler> if you use cond orders to skip the station which would be forwards
12:24:52 <ccfreak2k> I had to steal the FreeBSD timidity package.
12:33:42 <ccfreak2k> Now I just need to figure out why openttd is being jerky, and I'll be in business.
12:35:28 <Ammler> the left one should also never visit CE like the right one does.
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12:37:34 <Pikka> Ammler: does it perhaps not turn around in the station because it leaves before it's worked out where the next destination is?
12:38:01 <Pikka> ie, "go to C1" makes the train turn around, "Jump to order 1" doesn't
12:38:23 <Ammler> it should know where to go, BEFORE it leaves...
12:38:38 <Pikka> but I'm guessing it does that by looking at the next order
12:38:49 <Pikka> and if the next order is "jump to order 1", that doesn't tell it much...
12:39:04 <Pikka> so it doesn't turn around
12:39:17 <skidd13> Ammler did you searched me?
12:39:21 <Ammler> so it leaves like "no orders"
12:39:40 <Ammler> skidd13: I was wondering, why you stopped develpment with NAND. :-)
12:40:06 <skidd13> It is/was just a buggy hack...
12:43:12 <Ammler> I remembered it, as I looked at the amazing LED game.
12:43:47 <skidd13> Don't get me wrong... I like it, but ATM I've got other prioritys
12:44:41 <Ammler> :-) yeah, just wondering, I like those simulations.
13:20:10 <Sacro> Limitation disturbs me very sprites. Goes it throw out limitation?
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13:31:36 <Prof_Frink> Sacro is disturbed.
13:35:38 <Ammler> fjb: did you play on Indiana's server?
13:36:14 <Ammler> well, I mean currently
13:36:40 <Ammler> for me, it looks like TibPP is more stable the a plain YAPP server
13:39:17 <fjb> I never tried TibPP. Why should it be more stable then plain YAPP?
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13:45:14 <Rubidium> Ammler: what version of YAPP are you then using?
13:45:33 <Ammler> Rubidium: the newest one
13:45:42 <Ammler> we are running the ps with YAPP
13:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> "the newest one" is not a version
13:46:13 <Ammler> but we have also some GRF issues, I like to fix first
13:46:58 <Ammler> yapp 8 with trunk r13501
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13:53:04 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13520 /trunk/src/gamelog.cpp: -Fix (r13375): pointer has to be valid before it can be loaded to (SLE_STR)
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14:40:50 <Wolf01> who's playing with bots?
14:41:19 *** orudge sets mode: +b *!*@nat4.trans.net.pl
14:42:19 <orudge> just a temporary measure.
14:43:10 <orudge> what does +R do? prevent notices to a channel?
14:43:12 <SmatZ> what does +R do? invite only?
14:43:32 <ccfreak2k> +R allows only users registered with nickserv.
14:43:36 <orudge> let's see what happens now
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14:45:03 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: I have not seen gripe-das-aves.
14:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i'm not registered...
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14:49:25 <redguard> so I suppose the version actually in use now is the 0.6.1 ??
14:49:31 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: you can register, or wait until +R is removed
14:49:51 <redguard> someone has a link to it ?? ;)
14:50:01 <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: not a problem as soon as you don't leave the chan
14:50:09 <SmatZ> redguard: openttd.org :-P
14:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i leave at 2:34 ;)
14:50:21 <redguard> lol okay thanks I'll go with that ;)
14:50:50 <glx> I think the +R will be already removed at that time
14:50:51 <redguard> amazing how building networks while listening to Patrice is relaxing
14:50:55 <redguard> you should all try it out ;)
14:51:54 <redguard> uhm ... dowload servers are quite slow ...
14:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> sourceforge... :p
14:52:29 <ccfreak2k> "lol sourceforge" is probably the best answer.
14:52:43 <redguard> lol that's what I was expecting anyway ;)
14:55:06 <redguard> uhm I can't join with 0.6.1 installed ...
14:55:43 <redguard> (and don't play it obama-like with me ;))
14:56:13 <Rubidium> redguard: which server can't you join?
14:56:26 <redguard> I think I have found the culprit
14:56:46 <Rubidium> and the GUI is fairly explicit for reasons why it can't join a server (version or newgrf mismatch)
14:56:51 <redguard> the GRF "signals on one side of the rails" can't be found
14:57:17 <redguard> someone could help me to find it ??
14:57:25 <Rubidium> grfcrawler.tt-forums.net
14:57:32 <redguard> let me test something
15:04:11 <redguard> isn't there a pack of GRF I could download once and for all ?
15:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> what do you mean with "obama-like" anyway?
15:10:51 <dih> redguard: there is a grfpack, but that too is updated at times
15:11:43 <redguard> Eddi|zuHause2: Obama always repeat "Yes you can" so I was just afraid that you'll answer me simply that and let me alone with my problems ;)
15:12:04 <dih> why would anybody here do such a thing? :-P
15:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> we are europeans, please forgive us :p
15:13:03 <redguard> lol ;) I'm french I know that very much ;)
15:13:26 <Ammler> well, not all are europeans :P
15:13:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, if you count the brits :p
15:13:44 <redguard> yeah I know that too
15:14:28 <redguard> LOL So now you know I'm french, don't blame the brits in front of me I could react very badly to such a present sight ;)
15:14:38 <redguard> a pleasant sight sorry ;)
15:16:55 * dih eats fish and chips with malt vinegar
15:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> but occasionally dih's suppressed german half gets the upper hand :p
15:17:55 <redguard> I don't dislike the brits, I just always quote the De Gaulle sentence about them : You can't trust a people wich has such a bad cuisine
15:18:07 * redguard is a quarter bulgarian
15:18:48 <dih> redgard: but the brits are not always favorable of french :-P
15:20:05 <redguard> yeah I know that the brits some years ago followed blindly their big brother (i.e. former colonies) and trashed tremendously the french ;)
15:20:32 <redguard> that was quite funy to see
15:20:44 <dih> i dont think it is ok to use 'past tense' when you are talking about the brits attitude towards the french :-D
15:21:05 <dih> never understood it myself
15:21:19 <redguard> they don't like us grog eaters ;)
15:21:48 <redguard> but I don't resent them for that ...
15:22:53 <redguard> but ... the version isn't corresponding ...
15:23:15 <glx> ask the server owner (if you can)
15:23:49 * redguard is invoking the spirits of TTD
15:24:04 <redguard> spirit of the sever owner are you here ???
15:24:19 <redguard> (I'm quite hopeful that will work ...)
15:24:24 <dih> talking nonsense does not get you any further!
15:25:14 <redguard> I was just joking a bit ...
15:27:50 <redguard> the public server is called #openttdcoop - Public Server ??
15:29:56 <Vikthor> that's public server of the #openttdcoop community, AFAIK there is no official OpenTTD server
15:31:11 <SmatZ> there is no official OpenTTD server
15:33:25 <orudge> let's see if those bots are gone now
15:35:41 <redguard> uhm .... I sould watch for r13210
15:36:21 <redguard> I sould look for it sorry ;)
15:37:31 <redguard> that's the version on the member zone ;)
15:38:14 <SmatZ> are you going to play at Member Zone?
15:38:36 <redguard> no I just wanted to take a peak
15:39:13 <redguard> and yet I'll have to work quite hard to become a member ...
15:40:38 <redguard> I'm looking for a good way to connect a RR_LL line to a R_L line (it appears I'm not very gifted at that ...)
15:42:51 <redguard> yeah I know that but that intresting to see how those rails are actually laid ;)
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15:48:56 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13521 /trunk/src/ (graph_gui.cpp players.cpp): -Codechange: Use GUIList sorting instead of poll & sort for CompanyLeagueWindow
15:49:01 <Digitalfox> @openttd commit 13354
15:49:01 <DorpsGek> Digitalfox: Commit by smatz :: r13354 trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp (2008-06-01 19:36:55 UTC)
15:49:02 <DorpsGek> Digitalfox: -Codechange: make 8bpp_optimized blitter ~25% faster in encoding and ~15% faster in drawing (depends on architecture)
15:49:22 <Digitalfox> Smatz to what architecture does this apply ?
15:50:11 <skidd13> Digitalfox: I guess its not only architecture, also compiler ;)
15:51:03 <frosch123> It should be a speedup for all architectures. But the measured amounts may differ.
15:51:18 <Digitalfox> Hi skidd13 :) But does the user ( like Me ) feels any performance gain on playing? I wonder because I had some problems with performance in 32bpp and sometimes on 8bpp :)
15:51:44 <Digitalfox> ok, thanks for the answer frosch123 :)
15:51:53 <glx> this one is for 8bpp only
15:52:26 <Digitalfox> glx yes but before there was also on 32bpp 13545
15:52:33 <skidd13> Digitalfox: Visible gain is depending on so much more :D ;)
15:52:41 <Digitalfox> @openttd commit 13445
15:52:41 <DorpsGek> Digitalfox: Commit by smatz :: r13445 /trunk/src/blitter (32bpp_optimized.cpp 32bpp_optimized.hpp) (2008-06-10 17:28:37 UTC)
15:52:42 <DorpsGek> Digitalfox: -Codechange: make 32bpp_optimized blitter ~10-20% faster in drawing (depends on architecture and compiler)
15:53:27 <ccfreak2k> I can blitter with the best of 'em.
15:53:38 <Digitalfox> ok, I only ask because sometime ago I had a talk with truebrain on what could be optimized for better 32bpp performance and before this commit not much could be done :)
15:54:12 <Digitalfox> So it's a nice commit :)
15:56:00 <skidd13> Digitalfox: different points of view help allways to catch a few seconds speedup
15:56:20 <Digitalfox> skidd13 yes it's true ;)
15:59:31 <SmatZ> Digitalfox: tested on x86 and amd64, gcc 4.2
16:00:01 <SmatZ> Digitalfox: I am working on another blitter update
16:00:49 <SmatZ> Digitalfox: do you have any performance problems?
16:02:10 <peter1138> apparently it sucks in windows
16:02:15 <peter1138> but i've never noticed
16:02:18 <Digitalfox> Well in 32bpp I do :(
16:02:52 <Digitalfox> And in 8bpp I notice some ( but rare ) perfomance problems .
16:03:05 <SmatZ> 32bpp_optimised is still ~4 times slower than 8bpp_optimised
16:03:48 <SmatZ> not only that, it is more complicated
16:04:01 <Digitalfox> For example in a P4 3.2 HT 32bpp with anim blitter my CPU go nuts with 30% of usage with no NewGRF for example just on Intro Menu
16:04:21 <Digitalfox> I understand it's much more heavy than 8bpp, but 30%?
16:05:12 <Digitalfox> I discussed that with truebrain but at the time he told me nothing really could be done, but like skidd13 said * different points of view help allways to catch a few seconds speedup * :)
16:06:03 <peter1138> well, game size, anyway
16:06:20 <SmatZ> Digitalfox: and what usage do you have with 8bpp?
16:06:22 <peter1138> yeah, see, i usually use 640x480
16:06:49 <Digitalfox> but peter1138 I mean the window is maximized
16:07:18 <Digitalfox> Not the In game resolution :)
16:07:46 <peter1138> but maximized at 1280*1024 is quite a bit larger than 640*480
16:08:06 <peter1138> with 32bpp-anim on the intro screen at 1024x768 maximized it takes about 3% cpu for me
16:08:39 <Digitalfox> ok, I tested with Windows XP, Vista and 2008 :\
16:09:05 <peter1138> tried the sdl driver in windwos?
16:09:09 <peter1138> might be faster, dunno
16:09:22 <peter1138> though i don't think it's compiled by default
16:09:23 <TiberiusTeng> somebody wanna try my OpenGL thing? :p
16:09:24 <Digitalfox> I guess it has different optimizations for each OS, but you know that better than me :)
16:10:18 <peter1138> gdi vs sdl will be different
16:10:22 <ccfreak2k> TiberiusTeng, what OpenGL thing?
16:10:30 <peter1138> but 32bpp* blitters are the same
16:10:46 <Digitalfox> This may be silly but how do I start open with sdl driver?
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16:11:37 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13522 /trunk/src/players.cpp: -Codechange: Replace the qsort of the highscore with one of the internal sorters
16:11:50 <skidd13> Digitalfox: "openttd.exe -v sdl" I guess
16:14:04 <glx> but it needs to be compiled with sdl support
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16:20:09 <Sacro> skidd13: oh but qsort is ace
16:22:01 <skidd13> Sacro: well qsort needs some casts... The new way hides them... Anyways qsort is fast for bigger irregular sorted data, but for presorted or very short data the Gnome sorter should be better
16:22:53 <Sacro> ah yes, gnome sort is nice
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16:40:35 <Ammler> someone here has a GRF with a engine on max speed and power?
16:40:54 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13523 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Codechange: replace qsort by the internal typesafe QSortT for resolution sorting
16:41:05 <Ammler> We need it for optimizing logic gates :-)
16:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> don't use dynamic cells ;)
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17:39:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> the ndl compiler can do that
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17:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> "America’s most trusted news source among 18 to 45 year-olds, The Daily Show" -- lmao :p
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20:03:27 <kjaer_> Hey guys. Is it possible to have bots in a multiplayer game?
20:03:58 <kjaer_> Yexo: noai, sound like the opposite.
20:04:44 <Yexo> it's a framework to write new AIs with
20:05:39 <kjaer_> But it haven't been done before?
20:06:13 <Yexo> TrollyAI might be working in multiplayer, but that's very experimental
20:06:54 <Yexo> Check configure patches -> competitors -> allow AIs in multiplayer for that
20:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is called "NoAI" because the first step was to rip out all signs of the old AI
20:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> and then introduce a brand new framework step by step
20:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's still under heavy development
20:08:17 <Yexo> The framework is very useable right now
20:08:27 <Yexo> multiple people are developing AIs for it
20:09:41 <Progman> useable? this anti-oop-thingy? *g*
20:10:47 <Yexo> Yes, useable. But I'm not going to have a discussion here about how useable it is, if you want to discuss that, join #openttd.noai or post at tt-forums
20:12:15 <Yexo> <kjaer_> But it haven't been done before? <- What is your question? There have been written multiple AIs, and they work in multiplayer
20:12:42 <bowman> does it have support for trains and rails yet? :)
20:13:26 <kjaer_> Yexo: Well, I thought multiplayer games would just use the same bots as singleplayer game. So I got confused why they didn't show up.
20:14:21 <Yexo> support for rails will come, and there has been discussion about it, but there are some other things that will be created first
20:15:26 <Yexo> but there are some very good road and airport AIs out there
20:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> kjaer_: the problem is, all AIs must do the same on all multiplayer clients, otherwise they desync. with the old AI this was not possible
20:38:39 <Yexo> with NoAI the AIs only run on the server, not on the clients
20:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> exactly, the new AIs behave just like any other clients
20:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> the old AI had cheats all over the place
20:39:49 <Yexo> yes, like free terraforming
20:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> and cheats are disabled in multiplayer, so also the AIs are disabled
20:40:01 <glx> old AI used direct access
20:40:44 <Ammler> [22:38] <Yexo> with NoAI the AIs only run on the server, not on the clients <-- opposite, isn't?
20:41:03 <Yexo> no, the AIs run on the server.
20:41:28 <glx> doesn't matter where it is run
20:41:44 <Ammler> I thought, I can join a server a let my ai do the work :-)
20:42:12 <Ammler> so we will have soon more clients then server :-)
20:42:16 <Yexo> you can if it's your server. Start a new ai and join the company :)
20:42:50 <Ammler> glx: but that is the goal, isn't?
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20:49:49 <Dr_Link> How do you remove an individual piece of a monorail train station instead of removing the whole thing?
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20:52:57 <Dr_Link> It appears that the bulldozer icon is grayed out.
20:53:03 <Ammler> omg, I hope I will learn that somewhen.
20:54:17 <Dr_Link> peter1138: How do I make the bulldozer selectable? It is grayed out and I don't know how to get it back.
20:54:30 <Ammler> Dr_Link: you need first to chose, which type you like to remove
20:55:04 <Ammler> so click the station and then the bulldozer
20:56:19 <Dr_Link> clicked the station; brought up the station's manager dialog. Now I went into the Monorail Construction dialog, and with the station's dialog still brought up, the bulldozer is still grayed out.
20:57:39 <Dr_Link> Ammler: What did I do wrong?
20:58:58 <Ammler> Dr_Link: dunno, if I click the station, the bulldozer is clickable right after.
20:59:20 <peter1138> click on the station builder tool, not the station
20:59:41 <Ammler> oh, wasn't that clear :)
21:00:08 <peter1138> totally clear, "click the station" means exactly what Dr_Link did
21:04:19 <peter1138> TiberiusTeng: already fixed in trunk i believe
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21:48:29 <Bjarni> svippy: you are radical?
21:48:40 <Bjarni> you mean you vote on R?
21:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure i understand all parts of this joke :p
21:49:29 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: it wasn't a joke >_<
21:49:41 <Bjarni> well.. at least not what I just wrote
21:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i just ignored what you said :p
21:50:19 <Bjarni> svippy understands what I meant
21:50:30 <Bjarni> yet he have yet to answer this yes/no question
21:56:51 <Bjarni> looks like svippy decided to idle :/
21:57:10 <Bjarni> I might have offended him
21:59:00 <svippy> You don't offend me with B, Bjarni.
21:59:05 <svippy> I was talking about be radical.
21:59:13 <svippy> Not creative Østerbro pussy.
22:00:15 <svippy> B has nothing to do with being Radical.
22:02:57 <Bjarni> you know what I mean :s
22:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> apparently, nobody ever knows what you mean
22:05:54 <Bjarni> you make me sound like B
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22:09:25 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: in case you still wonder: B is a reference to a certain political party in Denmark
22:10:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13524 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp:
22:10:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: use the typesafe QSort for vehicle sortings
22:10:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Prepare: vehicles sorting for convsersion to GUIList
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22:13:38 <Bjarni> svippy never answered if he would vote for them though
22:13:50 <svippy> To answer your question; no.
22:18:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13525 /branches/noai/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIEventEngineAvailable and AIEventStationFirstVehicle
22:24:19 <Ammler> src/train_cmd.cpp:2431: void FreeTrainTrackReservation(const Vehicle*, TileIndex, Trackdir): Assertion `IsFrontEngine(v)' failed
22:24:46 <Ammler> (because of TrackReservation)
22:37:47 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13526 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_road.cpp ai_road.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: some namespace problems and forgotten pre-condition
22:54:02 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
22:56:55 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13527 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_controller.cpp ai_event_types.hpp ai_event_types.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Fix (r13525): squirrel_export doesn't like extra semicolon
23:00:27 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
23:13:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13528 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/ (regression.sav regression.txt): [NoAI] -Change: regression so it doesn't lose money as fast as it did.
23:19:18 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13529 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_road.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: don't suggest something is DiagDirection if it in fact isn't
23:35:52 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13530 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix (r13528): regression.txt was wrong
23:52:09 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
continue to next day ⏵
