IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-06-11
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05:17:45 <Pikka> Belugas: you'll be pleased to hear that the new industry var works perfectly. :)
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06:03:30 <Ammler> morning Pikka, any idea why your oldwag-newcargo grf doesn't work with NewCargo from MB, did he make his GRF completly different?
06:09:58 <Pikka> Ammler: afaia newcargo predates the cargo class system
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07:01:43 <iAN_> hi gurus, developers, batman, cops and all others
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07:03:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd take the first category if nobody minds :)
07:03:40 <iAN_> I figured out what kills gameplay totally.
07:04:03 <iAN_> using all ECS vectors and trying to deliver cargo from source to destination. That simply does not work
07:04:35 <iAN_> If, in the chain, something minor goes wrong. e.g. a lorry doesn't bring potash to a factory, it decreses production.
07:04:47 <iAN_> Then, coal, ironore, etc. is no longer accepted at the station
07:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> George's ECS implementation is just way over the top
07:05:19 <iAN_> those trains run back (full) the source station sinks in raw materials, and the output goes back from 1500 tons/month to 6
07:05:42 <iAN_> then, when you have fixed the lorry, the factory sinks in potash, because coal and iroenore are missing
07:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can use the unload order
07:06:01 <iAN_> This is a total mess of everything.
07:06:19 <iAN_> I figured out how to handle the mes
07:06:41 <iAN_> buid a gigantic station in the middle of the map. Lots of platforms, huge space.
07:06:54 <iAN_> every train goes from source to there unloading "everything"
07:07:04 <iAN_> and then the factories will be delivered from there
07:07:24 <iAN_> even when one mine goes down, there is enough coal at the center station
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07:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> only that'll totally kill profit
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07:12:02 <iAN_> You lose a lot more with that fricking ECS
07:12:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> like i said, it's way over the top
07:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is no "easy" mode
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07:13:31 <iAN_> you need 6 mineral-sources and one destination (factories). Its almost impossible to have that running. (output is glass + steel)
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07:13:45 <iAN_> never ever had "everything" runnig up to car production in the end
07:14:02 * peter1138 wonders if any ttdpatch players experience that
07:14:20 <iAN_> you would need, coal, ore, sand, glass, steel, oil, refined products, dye and all that in a weighted relation
07:14:53 <iAN_> not even touching the vectors for food and people (towns)
07:15:33 <iAN_> for a mineral source, producing 3000 units/month you need at least 4 platforms with a length of 14 tiles (each)
07:15:45 <iAN_> even if the coalmine is next to the power station.
07:16:14 <iAN_> then, the output of the power station goes up to 25% and the station does no longer accept coal
07:16:45 <iAN_> so, try to find (30!!) oil wells to deliver enough oil
07:17:14 <iAN_> I'd like to chat with the inventor of those ECS
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07:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's George, you find him on the forums
07:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> and he is not the inventor of ECS, ECS is a common specification, he IMPLEMENTED it
07:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> MB wants to do another implementation, let's see how that turns out
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07:40:57 <planetmaker> a wonderful good morning to all, btw :)
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07:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't use signs...
07:54:09 <planetmaker> you don't play multiplayer then :)
07:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, i'm on strike anyway ;)
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07:58:34 <planetmaker> you're on strike?
07:58:41 <planetmaker> how that? and why that?
07:58:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> because YAPP is not included yet ;)
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08:09:36 <planetmaker> big patch which requires careful consideration
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08:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> my main problem with non-trunk-inclusion over a long time is savegame compatibility
08:29:34 <planetmaker> but that's a general problem of all patches, ain't it?
08:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes and no, it is solveable if the patch author includes special savegame code
08:30:14 <planetmaker> you can avoid that, if you bump savegame version yourself a bit more :)
08:30:29 <planetmaker> ^ which is easier, but more hackish :P
08:30:52 <planetmaker> btw: is there an example somewhere how to include such savegame code?
08:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, the MiniIN
08:31:38 <planetmaker> hm, will have to have a look. But I fear the MiniIN is so huge, I won't see the wood because of the trees (or however you call it in English ;) )
08:32:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, most of these changes should be in settings.c and saveload.c
08:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i still think trunk should be prepared so that people can use the minor savegame version for that
08:34:38 <planetmaker> ^that indeed would be a nice idea :)
08:34:58 <planetmaker> but is just a nice idea unless you find a volunteer to make a patch which implements it.
08:35:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> trunk will then only ever be able to load games with minor savegame version == 0
08:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> and patch authors will only ever bump the minor savegame version, not the major savegame version
08:36:25 <planetmaker> though this not necessarily solves anything like savegame incompatibility.
08:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> it uncouples trunk savegame bumps from patch savegame bumps
08:37:16 <planetmaker> IIRC decouple. but whatever :)
08:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> in most cases, these should be orthogonal
08:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> only obvious special case is merging a patch to trunk
08:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> this will help developing one patch with savegame compatibility over time, but not merging patches into patch packs
08:40:15 <planetmaker> hm... but I don't see how this is easily to integrate in the save or load code of a savegame.
08:40:37 <planetmaker> you'd always have to tell it to handle the trunkish stuff special which means you have to tell it what is trunk in the first place
08:41:09 <planetmaker> so far - as I understood from a brief look - it's kind of monolithic writing down the settings structure. But I may be wrong
08:41:53 <planetmaker> and special cases for different savegame versions.
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11:27:57 <planetmaker> oh, certainly yes!
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11:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> oh yeah... windows firewall at work...
11:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i have 4 computers in the network, computer A on WinXP has windows shares
11:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i can access the windows shares from computer B (Win95) and C (SuSE)
11:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but not from computer D (Knoppix)
11:57:58 <Rubidium> that one's behind a router?
11:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what you call router
11:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it is on a different network, yes
11:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause> computer C is .1
11:59:45 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i disabled the firewall temporarily, now it works
11:59:53 <Rubidium> so A, B and C are in 192.168.0.X and D in 192.168.1.Y (or similar)
12:00:49 <Rubidium> then for Windows D is a computer on "the internet" that's accessing it, so the firewall goes into block all mode
12:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> is there any way to tell the windows firewall, that it is also "local"?
12:02:36 <ln> no comma in front of "that".
12:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there has to in german
12:03:05 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but whether it includes hexediting the firewall is something I don't know
12:03:29 <iAN_> pew. just spend 646 Euro for an external roof-box on my car
12:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i should just set up a proper bridge instead of routing on computer C
12:13:49 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13461 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: add A* to regression, so we test it a bit (very basic test ;))
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12:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, i think i found the option ;)
12:38:56 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: still on strike?
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12:46:42 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13462 /trunk/src/ (driver.cpp driver.h): -Codechange: move DriverFactoryBase destructor definition from header file (saves ~16kB)
12:54:44 <Belugas> [01:15] <Pikka> Belugas: you'll be pleased to hear that the new industry var works perfectly. :) <-- I am so happy (and releved) to read that :D I just can't wait to joyfully play with these industries !!
12:56:15 <Pikka> muahahaha... just gotta decide what I'm gonna do with them now ;)
12:56:45 <Belugas> and to think it was already drawn ;)
12:56:56 * Pikka is definitely making earlier variations of the oil chain and the power plant and the fuel depots... maybe adding a coal gasification plant?
12:57:29 <Pikka> the early oilwells are more or less drawn :)
13:00:30 <Noldo> I have to wonder how smatz comes up with those saves
13:01:45 <SmatZ> easiest way is to run compilation with -Winline
13:01:50 <SmatZ> where it fails to inline
13:01:56 <SmatZ> there it is better to move it to cpp
13:03:13 <Belugas> i'm sure you're going to produce a killer set, Pikka :)
13:03:25 <Belugas> if you need anything, just knock
13:03:48 <Belugas> ... as long as i understand exactly what you need ... ;)
13:04:39 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13463 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [Library CHANGE]: AyStar is now more object oriented, and you can indicate the amount of iterations FindPath should do in one go (tnx to Yexo and TrueBrain)
13:06:08 <Wuisch> any super secret awesome stuff on the verge of being released?
13:06:31 <Belugas> hoooo.. the little curious one that we have in here ;)
13:06:43 <Pikka> Wuisch: if there is, it's a secret. :P
13:07:20 <Wuisch> but maybe there was a super secret spy that would trust in my upstanding honesty that I won't ever tell *nods*
13:07:20 <Belugas> but anyone following our commits lately should have all the hints required
13:08:26 <Belugas> or rather my commits...
13:09:10 <Wuisch> hmmm I stumbled upon em once... but could you give me a link to where those commits been located so I can go all sherlock holmes on em? :)
13:12:50 <Wuisch> Exxccellent, Smitters get my pipe and monocle
13:42:45 <Rubidium> Wuisch: you should take a look at my IRC logs ;)
13:42:57 <Rubidium> it's just that I don't publish them
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13:54:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13464 /trunk/ (14 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: support NewGRF Action 0x05, type 12.
13:55:04 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13465 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (aqueduct.nfo aqueduct.pcx chars.nfo openttd.nfo): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: sprites for action 0x05, type 12.
13:56:03 <peter1138> r13464: -Feature: Add support for aqueducts
13:56:21 <peter1138> because hiding it is really useful
13:56:41 <ln> support for the roman empire
13:57:37 <SmatZ> well, I am not the one who will update changelog.txt...
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14:13:19 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13466 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13464): slope checking got lost during development...
14:23:56 <Wuisch> aquaducts... like a bridge for boats? if only we had more boat grfs
14:26:09 <Wuisch> Was there a giant party when you hit r10000?
14:27:10 <Wuisch> I was told it was a lie!?
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14:29:54 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13467 /branches/noai/src/station_cmd.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix [OpenTTD Core]: make CmdRemoveRoadStop use p2 as documented (only look at bit 0, not at the complete value)
14:30:41 <Wuisch> Hmmm... did they make it over a Computer screen or do they have some kind of awesome screenshot to cake glazing convertor? *note to self create and patent screenshot to cake glazing convertor*
14:31:05 <Gekz> you print it on edible paper
14:33:50 <Wuisch> but but but... isn't inkt poisonous? its what me mum always said "Don't eat yer pen or ye're gonna die a horrible horrible black inky death"
14:35:28 <peter1138> everyone who are it died
14:35:41 <hylje> ink isn't alive to begin with
14:36:15 <hylje> the level of obviousness remains unchanged :>
14:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why it is a lie, no living person has ever seen it!
14:37:42 <Wuisch> seriously though it should be possible to make an awesome cake machine that can convert jpg's to cake, and once I have created it I will rule to world and the cake will no longer be a lie
14:40:44 <Wuisch> That is beyond awesome
14:45:11 <Rubidium> they do that already for years
14:45:42 <Wuisch> seems my plan is foiled again >_< back to the drawing board...
14:46:21 <yorick> heh, I like how the commit messages of big things are sometimes cryptical
14:46:23 <Eddi|zuHause> where did you think the cake came from?
14:51:44 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13468 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: make aqueducts a little more expensive than normal bridges and disable terraforming of aqueduct bridgeheads; one can't terraform normal canal tiles either.
14:52:55 <yorick> congrats, you just ruined the cryptic message!
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14:55:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13470 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [Library CHANGE]: allow in graph.aystar to give a custom param to the callbacks, so you can send in an instance of yourself
14:55:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13469 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: add support for loading Action 0x05, type 0F: "tracks for slopes". It's not useful right now, but it will be in the future.
14:56:06 <planetmaker> he, I think wwottdgd has to run with a version >= 13468. Canal bridges are just too nice eye candy :)
14:56:46 <peter1138> action 5 type F is a horrible hack
14:57:06 <peter1138> i guess i can unsupport it later
14:57:30 <Wuisch> so whats the diffrence between an aqua duct and a viaduct?
14:57:40 <peter1138> aqueduct is for water
14:57:42 <yorick> aqueducts have water over them
14:57:49 <peter1138> viaduct is for other forms of transport
14:57:52 <Mchl> one ducts roads, other ducts water
14:57:53 <Rubidium> peter1138: newroutes or whatever it's called should just define *all* graphics and the issue is gone ;)
14:58:18 <yorick> now what does "tracks for slopes" mean?
14:58:33 <peter1138> pbs highlighing on sloped track
14:58:38 <peter1138> that's all it's used for
14:59:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13471 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (6 files): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: graphics for Action 0x05, type 0F.
14:59:14 <yorick> doesn't seem very useful
14:59:52 <peter1138> well it stops the "omg my track isn't highlighted" bug reports
15:00:36 <peter1138> so maybe there'll be a "-Codechange: modify signal updating" at some point
15:01:02 <peter1138> although possibly not as Rubidium does not like YAPP
15:01:33 <Mchl> let's call it something different then
15:01:42 <Mchl> meybe he'll like i tthen
15:02:15 * Rubidium points out the YAPP means Yet Another Patch Pack
15:04:01 * Mchl tries to get allpossible meanings out of this
15:04:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm quite sure that Rubidium's problem has to do with pathfinder penalties
15:05:19 <Mchl> he's penalising pathfinders?
15:05:21 <yorick> he does not not like Yet Another PBS Patch!
15:09:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13472 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Backport (r13467 from NoAI): make CmdRemoveRoadStop use p2 as documented (only look at bit 0, not at the complete value)
15:09:14 <yorick> why can't aqueducts be sloped at one side
15:09:26 <TiberiusTeng> so ... it's the PBS idea bad, the 'huge' yapp patch file that's extremely difficult to proof-read/check/commit, the original developer didn't cooperate with debugging/code-style changing request, or just feeling uneasy for 'somebody out there' writing a such large patchset? :p
15:09:30 <yorick> oh...wait...maybe with a lock at the end?
15:09:42 <Rubidium> cause a lock takes 3 tiles
15:09:57 <yorick> TiberiusTeng, where does someone say he hates it?
15:10:12 <Rubidium> and because nobody bothered to draw sloped aqueduct ramp tiles
15:10:20 <TiberiusTeng> well I'm just guessing, neither of them is true
15:11:49 <yorick> TiberusTeng, we aren't talking about PBS
15:12:26 <TiberiusTeng> ahh, yet another patch pack? sorry :p
15:14:54 <Mchl> I think that canals are not properly drawn when under aqueducts
15:18:30 <Mchl> when canal is next to aqueduct bridgehead, it is drawn without its bank on that side
15:19:14 <yorick> how did you place a canal next to an aqueduct bridgehead?
15:20:05 <Wuisch> is there a way to compile a ttd version when running vista?
15:20:23 <Mchl> next to a slope on which aqueduct starts
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15:21:42 <yorick> can reproduce, could you post it on flyspray? (bugs.openttd.org)
15:22:05 <SmatZ> there are more problems with canal borders
15:23:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13473 /branches/noai/ (36 files in 8 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with r13417:13472.
15:25:27 <[com]buster> lock destruction is also glitchy
15:26:12 <Mchl> yeah, it leaves canal tile, where it wasn't build before
15:26:35 <SmatZ> it has been this way for ages
15:28:06 <Mchl> is there a possibility to browse flyspray by a keyword?
15:28:54 <SmatZ> there is "search" button
15:29:30 <Mchl> i had some task opened, where there's only Show Task # window
15:32:36 <[com]buster> i can guess how the code works
15:32:48 <[com]buster> is that a feature?
15:33:23 <[com]buster> I thought it would be 'o.o'
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15:34:02 <[com]buster> its like, don't do what I expect :-/
15:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wuisch> is there a way to compile a ttd version when running vista? <- yes.
15:35:34 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13474 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_abstractlist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: remove the restriction of 10 params per Valuator
15:35:55 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: you sure?
15:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i'm just not sure why anybody would want to run vista
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15:37:07 <hylje> because it's what everyone will use
15:37:09 <trd> Well, it is this thing called "the only viable windows version that supports amd64 adequatly".
15:37:45 <[com]buster> If i want 64-bit support I rather use linux
15:37:47 <Wuisch> I like shiney things that use massive amounts of memory?
15:37:52 <[com]buster> vista's not worth it
15:38:12 <trd> buster: Give me FreeBSD with DirectX 10 support, and I'd kill my vista installation instantly.
15:38:21 <hylje> where do you need dx10?
15:38:28 <[com]buster> wait for the next release of wine :p
15:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Wuisch: there's always Beryl/Compiz ;)
15:38:52 <trd> "need" is very.... odd. You don't *need* a gui for anything. Textmode is best.
15:39:14 <trd> DirectX 10 has some better ways of doing some things than DirectX 9, even though all modern games only use it for useless eyecandy.
15:39:53 <Rubidium> luckily DirectX10-sdk isn't backward compatible
15:40:03 <Wuisch> anyhow how would I go about compiling open ttd in vista?
15:40:31 <Rubidium> install about 3 GB of shiny memory sucking applications, libraries and SDKs
15:41:30 <hylje> if it doesn't, hunt for a hotfix and pray that will then work
15:41:32 <Rubidium> cause as vista isn't backward compatible as everybody thinks the easy non-memory sucking and non-HDD sucking method fails
15:41:41 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
15:48:54 <planetmaker> e.g. install a proper compiler suite
15:49:45 <bowman> compiling with cygwin works the same in vista
15:50:13 <planetmaker> which is in some way also a compiler suite :P
15:50:34 <bowman> once all the crap is turned off there really isn't any significant difference between vista and previous nt5-iterations
15:50:48 <bowman> apart from the directx stuff that is
15:51:09 <bowman> but killing off directsound turned out rather well :)
15:53:57 *** user is now known as Guest69
15:54:45 <planetmaker> time for football :)
15:54:51 <Guest69> how can i solve my "network-game connection lost" error i'm getting frequently, that boots me out of the server im trying to play on
15:55:04 *** Guest69 is now known as UserError
15:57:17 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13475 /trunk/src/ (tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix (r13464): crash on destroying aquaduct with ship on in and on company bankrupt
15:57:39 * hylje is puzzled by this curious crash bug
15:57:54 <hylje> assuming a common cause
15:58:24 <peter1138> well tested feature :p
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15:59:20 <yorick> FS#2035: I didn't know that you could "lunch" openttd!
15:59:30 <SmatZ> I lunch openttd every day
16:00:24 <SmatZ> -Feature: now you can lunch your OpenTTD every day
16:00:58 <Mchl> and you get hand painted developer fig in each pack!
16:01:15 <SmatZ> peter1138: untested actually
16:03:44 * Rubidium can't help it when asking others to help testing that nothing happens or that they don't tell about issues they've found until it gets committed
16:04:09 <peter1138> yorick: you can 'crush' it too
16:05:14 <SmatZ> Rubidium: last time you asked was version without working pathfinders, you certainly didn't ask about version you commited
16:10:25 <yorick> I didn't see you asking there?
16:10:39 <yorick> And what's next, aquetunnels?
16:12:40 <Rubidium> and there aren't ships small enough to go into a real one
16:17:41 <Wuisch> aye more shipsmore ports... better yet lets abandon all the other forms of transportation and fully focus development on ships! ^^
16:17:46 <peter1138> add a property bitmask: can go through tunnels, can go over aqueducts
16:18:18 <hylje> waterways for ships to work in
16:18:24 <svippy> Pathfinder. Now you're making sense.
16:18:31 <svippy> Maybe cooler channels.
16:18:32 <hylje> like rails but more freeform and automatic
16:18:42 <Wuisch> well collision detection might be a bit undoable with the small size of channels but it would be neat
16:18:52 * yorick wants real ferries with cars
16:19:19 * yorick wants floating bridges
16:19:23 <svippy> Otherwise it wouldn't make sense.
16:19:36 <yorick> svippy, over longer distances, offcourse
16:19:37 <hylje> with deep water it'd be feasible
16:19:42 <svippy> And the ability to make tunnels that is like a hole in the ground.
16:19:59 * peter1138 throws yorick into the sea
16:20:00 <hylje> because 1) deepwater bridges are expensive 2) it's even more expensive to excavate underwater
16:20:01 * yorick wants enhanced tunnels
16:20:13 <svippy> And maybe a global scenario where the water rises a level during game play.
16:20:23 <hylje> it's civ2 all over again
16:20:29 <svippy> s/global/global warming/
16:20:53 * Belugas is tempted to attach yorick to tracks in tunel entrance
16:21:22 <svippy> And maybe a map type where the water is lava.
16:21:29 <svippy> Oh dear, that is just a image replacement.
16:22:19 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13476 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix: draw canal borders for locks and when directly next to a aquaduct entrace but under the aqueduct.
16:22:21 <yorick> what ? no scenario editor aqueducts?!
16:22:55 <hylje> aqueduct is correct i believe
16:23:11 <Rubidium> svippy: use a dictionary!
16:23:20 <svippy> Which agrees with hylje.
16:23:25 <yorick> it's "aquaduct" in any other language
16:23:36 <svippy> Finnish is silly anyway.
16:23:58 <svippy> Which is why I have gone over to Estonian.
16:24:10 <yorick> correction: every language that has a word that sounds like "aqueduct"
16:24:13 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13477 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r13464): correct tile type in the Query tile info window
16:24:22 <Sacro> svippy: actually it varies
16:25:44 <Mchl> latin pronounciation would be closer to aque than aqua
16:25:56 <yorick> not if seperating the words
16:26:01 <Prof_Frink> What have the Romans ever done for us eh?
16:26:22 <svippy> Just like encyclopaedia.
16:26:23 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: don't start that :p
16:26:41 <svippy> I have æ in my language.
16:26:52 <svippy> We even spell it "Cæsar".
16:27:00 <svippy> I feel sorry for you, Prof_Frink.
16:27:10 <Mchl> it all falls back to 'e' in polish
16:27:36 <svippy> So there is only e in Polish?
16:28:00 <Mchl> oh sorry... english only
16:29:05 <Mchl> that's silesian dialect I believe
16:37:41 <Wuisch> My god I think i'm compiling
16:39:19 <Prof_Frink> Arie*: Are there anough of you?
16:40:04 <Arie> dunno, my connection apperantly fucks up when i use google maps and zoom in / out a lot
16:42:50 <Belugas> i guess that it's time to grab my lunch now...
16:42:58 <Belugas> way passed my regular time
16:43:46 <Mchl> I'd beter go buy some water, while the shops are still open
16:56:16 <Touqen> Not everyone likes tap water.
16:56:35 <Prof_Frink> Then they're silly.
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16:57:22 <[com]buster> Sometimes it's a bad idea to dring tap water
16:57:26 <Wuisch> I firmly believe that if you just fill up the spa bottle with tap water 90% won't notice the diffrence
16:57:28 <[com]buster> a _really_ bad idea
16:57:37 <[com]buster> maybe not in your country
16:57:40 <Wuisch> yeah if you live in an undeveloped country... like greece
16:58:29 <hylje> bottled water tends to be worse off around here
16:58:38 <hylje> it's only the novelty and lack of choice
16:59:20 <Wuisch> I'm still wondering if it'd be possible to hookup a main line to a brewery and have beer flow from yer taps
16:59:48 <Prof_Frink> Could take a while to prime the pump
17:00:00 <Wuisch> it'd be totally worth it though
17:00:13 <Prof_Frink> And with losses along the pipe, it'd be a damn heavy pump
17:00:14 <Wuisch> nothing reels in the ladies like beer guzzling
17:00:34 <Wuisch> well not much heavier then water is it?
17:00:39 <Prof_Frink> Or you could get a cellar
17:01:03 <Wuisch> I suppose just getting a tank beneath yer house and have it filled up every once in a while would work too
17:01:51 <Prof_Frink> Like I said. Cellar. Complete with street hatch for deliveries
17:02:17 <Wuisch> but where will I put my daughter and incestuous children then?
17:02:25 <Vikthor> The problem is, you have to have high consumption
17:02:27 <hylje> you build another cellar
17:02:55 <Wuisch> well beer showers take quite a bit I reckon
17:03:20 <Vikthor> if this is the case than I rest my case :D
17:03:26 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, would I run the pipeline to Ringwood or Blandford?
17:03:32 <Prof_Frink> decisions, decisions...
17:04:21 <Wuisch> running a pipeline all the way to belgium would be quite Expensive I suppose
17:05:08 <Prof_Frink> And if I were in Kent, it'd go to Shepherd Neame anyways
17:05:59 <Prof_Frink> A pipeline to get Red Cuillin. Now that'd be expensive.
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17:11:02 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13478 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: don't use GetBridgeSpec() for aqueducts
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17:12:12 <Wuisch> thats like a water bridge
17:12:43 <fjb> I know. But they are new in the game.
17:13:05 <Wuisch> well since about 10 code change
17:14:30 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, does that mean we'll be able to recreate the M6Toll?
17:14:49 <Prof_Frink> New motorway, bridge over it to carry the canal
17:15:00 <Prof_Frink> Only problem... No canal!
17:15:04 <Mchl> Wuish: don't drink tap water in Warsaw, ever
17:15:25 <Wuisch> isn't tap water vodka there?
17:15:31 <yorick> technically, aquaducts can be bridges and tunnels
17:15:33 <Mchl> in my home city, it's safe
17:15:53 <Mchl> but in Warsaw.... well yeah... I suppose you could get intoxicated as if it was vodka
17:15:54 <fjb> Do we have sprites for aqueducts?
17:16:39 *** Barry_ is now known as Barry
17:16:46 * Prof_Frink wants a suspension aqueduct
17:17:05 * yorick wants a subterranian aqueducts
17:17:14 <Wuisch> wants more boats and better ports
17:17:34 <Prof_Frink> Wuisch: Not more boats...
17:17:40 <Prof_Frink> I want an ekranoplan.
17:17:43 <fjb> And ships that don't go through each other.
17:18:22 *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
17:18:42 <fjb> How fast can ships be in OpenTTD?
17:19:10 <Prof_Frink> iirc 127mph was max in ttd
17:19:17 <yorick> or was it 74 pixels per tick?
17:19:31 <Wuisch> is it hard to make new ships ?
17:19:32 <yorick> yeah, 74 px per second
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17:20:14 <Eddi|zuHause> as "easy" as any newgrf, considering you have to hex-hack most of it
17:20:42 * yorick wants aqueducts in scenario editor :)
17:20:44 *** Barry__ has joined #openttd
17:20:47 <fjb> Hm, road vehicles are limited to 127km/h.
17:20:47 <Wuisch> hexhack... now that sounds annoying
17:20:48 *** [alt]buster has joined #openttd
17:21:43 <yorick> only planes and trains can go faster, fjb
17:22:25 <fjb> Are roadveclis still limited like that in TTDP?
17:22:32 <yorick> because it was so in the original game
17:22:47 <Prof_Frink> Sounds like a job for
17:22:52 <yorick> and changing it would require changing the whole mechanism of drawing rvs and ships
17:22:53 <frosch123> roadvehicles are not limited to 127 kmh
17:22:54 <Wuisch> but can't that limit be removed?
17:22:54 <Prof_Frink> peter1138! NewFasterStuff!
17:22:57 <DaleStan> Limited to 2040 mph, I think.
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17:23:22 <Ammler> there was a patch for RVs, wasn't?
17:23:53 * frosch123 calculates 511 km/h
17:24:28 *** Barry__ is now known as Barry
17:24:31 <Ammler> frosch123: but there is no set which has more speed?
17:25:03 <yorick> any faster things for ships?
17:25:12 * frosch123 only uses RV, when he has to test something, so no idea
17:26:52 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
17:26:59 <fjb> I guess LongVehicles has some busses which are fster than 127km/h. But I don't use TTDP, so I'm not sure.
17:27:26 <peter1138> and me-tv is digital only
17:28:57 * frosch123 only managed to configure kdetv, though it sounds noobish
17:30:07 * yorick still wants aqueducts in scenario editor and knows how long it could take if he posted it on FS
17:30:29 <frosch123> yorick: So you do not want locks in SE?
17:31:33 <Ammler> aquaducts looks a little bit strange, can't you make them 2 tiles high?
17:31:53 <SmatZ> frosch123: well, why not
17:32:05 <Ammler> maybe I find an old screen at tt-forums to show what I mean.
17:32:25 <yorick> frosch123, yes I do, but I see aqueducts implemented slightly more soon, because every other type has bridges
17:32:32 <frosch123> and who should own them? I never figured out, why you can build canals in SE
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17:33:42 <fjb> Better invent the generation of rivers...
17:33:53 *** Barry__ is now known as Barry
17:34:46 <yorick> fjb, we already did that
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17:35:07 <fjb> Oh, where? What did I miss?
17:35:08 *** Barry__ is now known as Barry
17:35:31 <yorick> inventing != implementing
17:36:07 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13479 /trunk/src/ (dock_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: don't use word 'bridge' for aqueducts that often
17:37:04 <fjb> Hm, ok, than implement that first.
17:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause> canal bridges are quite common
17:38:39 <Ammler> is there a aquaduct _not_ over a river?
17:39:09 <Prof_Frink> Yes. Over t'M6Toll.
17:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> well, most of the others look more like tunnels
17:39:35 <Prof_Frink> (Except it's missing the "aque" bit atm)
17:40:36 *** Pikka|afk is now known as Pikka
17:42:14 <Ammler> SmatZ: please, make a goal :-)
17:44:31 <Wuisch> I'm going to try and make a ship for ottd.... Time till I get bored with it 15 minutes 35 seconds
17:44:40 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ vor, noch ein Tor! :p
17:44:41 <yorick> [19:30] * @SmatZ agrees <-- maybe then SmatZ could code and commit it with the reward of a "<yorick> thank you SmatZ"?
17:45:01 <SmatZ> I have exam tommorow, maybe later :)
17:45:19 <SmatZ> you may place a feature request if it is not there already
17:45:46 <Ammler> SmatZ: don't talk, press the thumb
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17:45:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
17:45:58 <Ammler> (if you do that in your home...)
17:48:07 <yorick> hello coder-who-likes-aqueducts-in-scenario-editor-and-can-commit-it-before-nightly?
17:49:29 <yorick> SmatZ, shall I assign it to you?
17:50:32 <Bjarni> yorick: don't count on getting something committed 10 minutes before a nightly build
17:50:40 <SmatZ> yorick: don't misuse FS bugs :-P
17:51:15 <Bjarni> since it will take more than 10 minutes to verify that it is good enough, both featurevise and codevise
17:51:25 <Ammler> aqueducts in scenario editor is like rivers in the game... :P
17:51:58 <yorick> not misusing it, just using the field where it is supposed to be used for
17:52:02 <peter1138> 'n roads 'n bridges
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18:10:28 <Wolf01> I would have restricted the min height to 2 tiles
18:11:33 <Ammler> Wolf01: I guess, it is hard to implement
18:16:56 <yorick> Ammler, I guess it isn't
18:17:18 <yorick> if height < 2 then fail()
18:17:36 <Prof_Frink> min/max heights and lengths are better left to newgrfs
18:19:31 <Wolf01> in case of aqueducts I think that a standard higher limit should be better
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18:21:03 <Wuisch> whats the biggest size a boat can be?
18:21:36 <Prof_Frink> Wuisch: About yay big
18:21:47 <SmatZ> yay, that's a big ship!
18:23:24 <Wolf01> I think 458m until now
18:25:22 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
18:41:09 <Wolf01> I was starting to type "Is possible to open timetables with status window?" when I clicked with ctrl on the orders button...
18:43:17 <Wolf01> I should update the key guide on my site
18:43:42 <planetmaker> ^ is your site the wiki? :)
18:44:10 <planetmaker> or can you point me to your site?
18:44:26 <planetmaker> (short cuts are just so nice...) :)
18:44:27 <Wolf01> no, somebody copied it from my site, translated it to English and then posted to the wiki
18:44:48 <Wuisch> Hmm It might have been smart of me to draw the ship from the right angle I suppose a roofless ship wouldn't really work
18:45:33 <planetmaker> what's your site then, Wolf01 ?
18:46:11 <Wolf01> transporttycoon.game-host.org, if still work
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18:50:21 <planetmaker> he, italian :). Somewhat hard to figure out, but with a bit of fantasy it works for me :)
18:54:09 <Mchl> Wuisch: better roofless, than bottomless...
18:56:16 <Bjarni> there were a ship that transported some sort of metal and since it got wet it started producing hydrogen. Days later they started to repair something and turned on a welding unit
18:56:21 <Bjarni> then it became bottomless
18:56:44 <Wolf01> mmh, I just noticed that alt+enter doesn't work anymore, the window blinks and nothing happen
18:56:48 <Bjarni> the insurance company didn't want to pay because no SOS was sent
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18:57:45 <Bjarni> <Mchl> Wuisch: better roofless, than bottomless... <-- odds are that some people would think it's the opposite with women
18:58:06 <hylje> bjarni? women? have i missed something?
18:58:40 <Bjarni> which means... women != ships (or women = !ships)
18:58:46 <Bjarni> hylje: you always miss stuff
18:59:32 * Bjarni notes that hylje is a Sacro wannabe
18:59:47 <Bjarni> looks like he highlights on words like "women"
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19:00:01 <Bjarni> Sacro: I got something for you
19:00:19 <SmatZ> no, he highlights on "men", but it is part of "women"
19:00:19 <Bjarni> that should keep him busy
19:01:15 *** [com]buster has joined #openttd
19:03:14 <Wuisch> well back to the drawing board
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19:23:59 <Wuisch> does the nightly built include the aquaducts?
19:24:58 <Wuisch> Never mind already know :P
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19:28:52 <peter1138> no, it includes aqueducts
19:31:25 <Wuisch> will there also be a function of aque ducts so you don't have to raise the hill to go over a road? Don't really care just wondering
19:33:33 <Wuisch> thats quite a neat little thing... I once visited a giant sluis.... whats that called again...
19:34:02 <peter1138> well you can lower the road...
19:34:59 <SmatZ> hehe one can build 2040 tiles long aqueduct
19:35:04 <Wuisch> true its not something thats really important it works this way and really how often do I use canals anyhow :p
19:35:58 <SmatZ> Wuisch: I think it is unrealistic
19:36:11 <SmatZ> water level can change only in locks
19:37:54 <Wuisch> alter the bridge head to look like a lock... but that would require ships to stop and such... meh on to other subjects Cheese
19:38:35 <SmatZ> and it would need to be much longer
19:38:40 <SmatZ> 3 tiles long bridge head
19:38:41 <Belugas> GIMME GIMME GIMNME MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORE!!!!!
19:38:54 <SmatZ> wasted time for that, really
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19:39:51 <Wuisch> I don't know how to make cheese >_<
19:40:00 *** mucht_home is now known as Mucht
19:40:11 <Belugas> try asking google. the answer is OUT THERE
19:40:58 <Wuisch> thats what they said to me when I was looking for the copulation of goats...
19:41:55 <SmatZ> no, don't make it, it wouldn't be included
19:42:09 <Wuisch> specially with my ultra special non compiling code ^^
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19:43:21 <Wuisch> basicly it consists of a .txt containing the code "10 Make lock bridgehead goto 20 20 end "
19:44:06 * frosch123 would prefer a lift bridge for the road
19:44:29 <frosch123> kind of water-road-level crossing :p
19:45:01 <Prof_Frink> frosch123: 's called a ford
19:45:02 <frosch123> including crashing roadvehicles, when the bridge opens and a raodvehicle was too slow
19:46:30 * frosch123 never saw roadvehicles driving through a ford
19:46:56 <Wuisch> you mean b asicly a drawbridge? probably hard to implement aswell but go for it
19:46:58 * planetmaker even drove through some fords. Living in NZ is not possible without :P
19:47:37 <Prof_Frink> frosch123: If you make it, you have to make a special GRF for lifting bridges in the middle of cities
19:47:58 <fjb> We even still have some in Germany. But you only need them when you lost your way.
19:48:57 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
19:49:12 <SmatZ> planetmaker: did you live in the New Zaeland?
19:49:28 <Wuisch> I lived in the old zeeland
19:49:43 <planetmaker> Yes, I did for bit more than a year.
19:50:06 <yorick> Wuisch: lived, or live?
19:50:28 <planetmaker> not anymore :). So past tense :)
19:50:47 <planetmaker> was a great time :)
19:51:14 <yorick> then where do you live now, Wuisch?
19:51:42 <planetmaker> He. Quite a distance between Zeeland and New Zealand :)
19:51:52 <Wuisch> I'll never tell! think of all the people coming to seek my advice
19:51:54 <planetmaker> I guess Zeeland is WAY closer for me now. Could be there in a few hours.
19:53:06 <planetmaker> yeah. take 24h and you just may make it.
19:53:08 <Wuisch> I now live in the edgecity!
19:53:58 <yorick> which city in the edgecity?
19:54:16 <planetmaker> what or where is edgecity?
19:54:33 <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> frosch123: 's called a ford <-- a bridge that can open for ships is called a ford?
19:54:39 <Bjarni> never heard that before
19:54:54 <Wuisch> its a secret place where dutch people live planetmaker
19:55:01 <Bjarni> maybe that's why I haven't heard it before XD
19:55:15 <planetmaker> Bjarni: ford = level crossing water + road :)
19:55:29 <yorick> it's our secret place where we communicate with aliens and such
19:55:29 <Bjarni> I tried one of those once
19:55:49 <Bjarni> it was like there was a river and a road and somebody forgot to build a bridge
19:56:01 <Bjarni> but jeeps could get through the river
19:56:26 <planetmaker> hehe. It requires sometimes a bit of courage to go through with a normal car :)
19:56:31 * yorick also lives in the edgecity
19:57:23 <Bjarni> <planetmaker> hehe. It requires sometimes a bit of courage to go through with a normal car :) <-- courage wasn't enough to drive on that road in a normal car
19:57:43 <Wuisch> england had a lot of fords last year then
19:58:07 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13480 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2050]: RVs stoppping at drive through stations of other companies.
19:58:25 <Prof_Frink> Wuisch: And my boss' father in law got stuck in one
19:58:32 <Vikthor> Shared road stops? :D
19:58:47 <planetmaker> :) I have them :)
19:59:27 <Vikthor> Of course, but these were in trunk :D
19:59:38 <Wuisch> is it possible to make trucks at drive throughs pass a loading truck?
19:59:39 <planetmaker> Bjarni: but those roads are probably most fun with the _right_ car :)
20:01:19 * planetmaker will now give the new aqueducts a try :)
20:01:47 <Wuisch> darn none of the servers have updated to the latest nightly yet
20:02:04 <planetmaker> svn is your friend :)
20:02:33 * yorick already gave the new aqueducts a try
20:03:36 <Wuisch> Lets see how many water things I can have over each other
20:04:11 <dih> [21:41] <Ammler> our turkey got the goal :-)
20:09:09 <yorick> you know that's supposed to be a private message :P
20:09:19 <yorick> geoip was wrong - as usual
20:10:37 <Wuisch> Apperantly I live in bodegrave according to my ip
20:10:54 <yorick> no, in The Hague, GeoIP says
20:11:10 <Wuisch> geoIptool says bodegrave
20:11:22 <yorick> heh, at least mine is correct
20:12:02 <yorick> except for the case that I don't live in the MediaPark
20:14:30 <Wuisch> this one puts me in haarlemmermeer... I'm all over the place
20:14:47 <yorick> weeh! you're multiple!
20:14:53 <Boyinblue0> there ya go combuster
20:15:11 <[com]buster> wrong channel, freind :)
20:17:06 <Wuisch> so when is the aquatunnel coming ?
20:17:16 <yorick> pffm, dentist put a plastic layer on my teeth, feels wierd, and will be doing that for 3 years :(
20:17:23 <yorick> because the ships are too big
20:18:19 <Wuisch> why don't just get artificial teeth straight away?
20:20:07 <Bjarni> because they are just as good compared to the real thing as artificial intelligence
20:21:37 <planetmaker> proposal for aqueducts: make "b" the shortcut for them. It'd be consequent
20:21:48 <Bjarni> artificial teeth compared to real teeth
20:22:05 <Bjarni> artificial intelligence compared to real intelligence
20:22:36 <Bjarni> it's still an open question if the latter is available everywhere though
20:23:25 <Mchl> I'll feed it into eliza, and tell what she thinks about it
20:24:02 <Mchl> Eliza: Do you wish that the latter is available everywhere though?
20:27:21 <Bjarni> I bet Eliza will answer something like that
20:29:04 <Mchl> did Eliza ever answered in confirmative?
20:29:34 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: I have not seen Eliza.
20:30:18 <DorpsGek> Wuisch: I have not seen boobies.
20:30:25 <Wuisch> Hahaha... i'm a comedy genious
20:30:57 <Mchl> Wuisch: you owe me new keyboard
20:31:36 <Wuisch> you broke when you rolled over it while laughing on the floor?
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20:32:13 <Mchl> nah... it's covered in... a peach... i was eating
20:33:09 <Prof_Frink> @seen orudge_naked
20:33:09 <DorpsGek> Prof_Frink: I have not seen orudge_naked.
20:33:50 <Wuisch> oh yes... and #openttd was never the same again
20:35:02 <Bjarni> You: is there life on Mars?
20:35:15 <Bjarni> we should keep sending probes to Mars
20:35:21 <Bjarni> we should go on doing so
20:35:41 <Mchl> she might be 30yrs old, yet still gives proper answers
20:36:00 <Bjarni> You: what is the meaning of life?
20:36:00 <Bjarni> Eliza: Does that question interest you?
20:36:00 <Bjarni> Eliza: You are being a bit negative.
20:36:23 <murr4y> we all know, the answer is 42
20:36:23 <SmatZ> like she doesn't remember previous sentence
20:36:47 <Mchl> she's been programmed in 1966
20:36:53 <Wuisch> why can't we send some cooler stuff to marz... like I don't know an acme anvil... then it would be like one of those cartoons where an anvil just falls on someones head... it will show the martians we have mastered comedy
20:37:04 <Mchl> don;t expect her to do heuristics on what you say
20:37:27 <Wuisch> and I ment to say mars... I in no way condone the use of inapropriate z's in my speech
20:38:19 <Bjarni> You: do you know the meaning of life?
20:38:19 <Bjarni> Eliza: Oh, i know the meaning of life.
20:38:32 <Bjarni> You: tell me the meaning of life
20:38:32 <Bjarni> Eliza: Can you elaborate on that?
20:38:40 <Bjarni> she is keeping secrets from us :(
20:40:01 <Bjarni> Eliza: Would you prefer if I were not a human?
20:40:01 <Bjarni> You: do you want to have sex?
20:40:01 <Bjarni> Eliza: Oh, i want to have sex.
20:40:09 <Bjarni> in that case I prefer a human :)
20:41:08 <Wuisch> but you don't have to cuddle with robots afterward
20:41:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you sound like you tried already...
20:41:56 * Mchl wonders if he should've pasted that link at all
20:42:28 <Bjarni> You: do you enjoy playing OpenTTD?
20:42:28 <Bjarni> Eliza: Oh, i enjoy playing openttd.
20:43:09 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Recruit her for NoAI!
20:44:00 <Mchl> I think it might not be the original implementation of Eliza
20:44:24 <Mchl> I remember, that she liked to ask question, not answering them
20:44:47 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, my implementation seems to be broken.
20:45:02 *** Boyinblue0 was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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20:45:19 <Prof_Frink> 1) My computer doesn't need to let me do anything
20:45:26 <Mchl> yup... DorpsGek manages better
20:45:27 <Prof_Frink> 2) My name's not Dave
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20:47:24 <Bjarni> I asked "are you a robot"
20:47:35 <Bjarni> You: I am answering your question truthfully.
20:47:35 <Bjarni> Eliza: How long have you been answering my question truthfully?
20:49:30 <Mchl> Eliza was programmed as a comical attempt to create a virtual psychiatrist
20:49:45 <Mchl> then Parry was created... a virtual schizophreniac
20:49:59 <Wuisch> who knew cats like pizza
20:50:24 <Mchl> and both of them could chat together for hours :D
20:53:34 <Prof_Frink> And then there's Marv.
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21:06:46 <fjb> The canset guys are cheating. they allow only passenger cars in their push/pull trains.
21:07:34 <Bjarni> what else would you want to add?
21:07:52 <fjb> So nobody seen they are not turning around the whole train, only switching the sprites at the ends.
21:07:57 <Belugas> that's their set. they decide waht to put in there
21:09:35 <Belugas> don't try to make your dream their reality
21:11:30 <svippy> I am not getting it at all.
21:11:52 <svippy> And I think there is a good reason for only allowing passenger cars in their trains.
21:11:58 <svippy> Maybe because it *is* a passenger train!
21:12:05 <Bjarni> in real life you can only use wagons that can carry the control signals from the steering car to the locomotive
21:12:05 <svippy> :O My goodness, I think I just nailed it.
21:12:12 <Bjarni> usually only passenger wagons can do that
21:12:42 <Bjarni> also they need to fit certain physical features too
21:12:51 <fjb> It is far more complicated to make a train lokk going backward when you have different cars in it. You don't only have to switch the first and the last sprite of the train, you have to switch all the sprite in the train.
21:13:42 <Bjarni> how long can you make those trains anyway?
21:13:43 <fjb> So it is easier to only allow passanger cars in a push pull train.
21:14:18 <fjb> Mail cars are were not that uncommon in passenger trains.
21:14:37 <Bjarni> we are talking about push pull trains
21:14:48 <Bjarni> they are usually used for short distances
21:14:56 <Bjarni> mail cars are used for long distance
21:15:30 <Bjarni> having said that I have seen the exception to the rule
21:15:56 <Bjarni> the railroad added a mail car or something similar after the locomotive when the locomotive were pushing the cars
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21:16:24 <Bjarni> the safety restrictions about push pull trains applies to cars in front of the locomotive, but not behind it
21:16:41 <Bjarni> so you can add whatever you like after the locomotive (at least in real life)
21:17:00 <Bjarni> somebody might be upset if you transport dangerous stuff on a train with passengers though
21:17:19 <svippy> Are they called railroads or railways?
21:17:47 <planetmaker> the answer depends upon whom you ask :P
21:18:13 <Bjarni> svippy: it depends on if you are talking US English or real English
21:20:05 <Bjarni> svippy: of cause we all know the correct term is jernbane so why bother with anything else? :D
21:20:38 <svippy> :O But isn't jernbane just "irontrack"?
21:22:10 <svippy> Hey, Bjarni, I don't know how good your Danish is, but in my experience "jern" is "iron" and "bane" is "track".
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21:24:49 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster
21:24:50 <Bjarni> last time I checked my Danish were pretty decent
21:25:04 * Pikka points out to Bjarni that of the seven Class 1 carriers in the US and Canada, five are "railway"s while only one is a "railroad" ;)
21:25:05 <Bjarni> the same goes for knowledge about railroads in Denmark
21:26:22 <fjb> If the rail is on your way, then it is a railway.
21:26:57 <Bjarni> <svippy> Hey, Bjarni, I don't know how good your Danish is <-- I imagine it's better than yours :P
21:27:30 <svippy> Woo for avoiding "aeroplane" or "airplane".
21:28:12 <svippy> That is the specific reason for its name.
21:28:24 <svippy> There were heated debates on its talk page about which it should be.
21:29:16 <Bjarni> my English teacher once said it was US/British but British Airways used the American term
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21:38:10 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13481 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Codechange: add 'B' keyboard shortcut to build aqueduct (planetmaker)
21:38:11 <Bjarni> lol.... just saw the result of a survey... engineers who will not switch out their windows client with linux replied on why not. 3,4% were concerned with the security in linux :D
21:38:58 <svippy> How am I going to work if I get no viruses?
21:39:08 <svippy> How can I live if my system has an almost 99% uptime?!
21:39:22 <svippy> Where are the restarts?! That is not what I have come to know!
21:39:36 <fjb> Every system is insecure if the operator doesn't know what he is doing.
21:40:22 <svippy> Some systems' third parties are just more out to get them than others.
21:40:25 <Bjarni> I don't think this would be an issue
21:40:38 <Bjarni> as it should be taken care of by their system administrator
21:40:47 <Bjarni> this is computers for work
21:40:57 <fjb> Don't feel secure only because you are using Linux.
21:40:59 <Bjarni> hence they don't have to install it themselves
21:41:28 <ben_goodger> my IT teacher once submitted a proof that went: "windows is perfect, therefore viruses just happen. windows is perfect and linux is not windows, therefore linux is not perfect, therefore it is worse at viruses"
21:41:39 <Bjarni> <fjb> Don't feel secure only because you are using Linux. <--- nobody claimed that
21:41:48 <Bjarni> it's just in comparison with windows
21:42:00 <svippy> ben_goodger, what was his argument for stating "Windows is perfect".
21:42:08 <svippy> Have you seen its font anti-aliasing?!
21:42:09 <ben_goodger> she didn't have one
21:42:17 <fjb> A well administrered Windows is more secure than a poorly administered Linux.
21:42:26 <svippy> If Windows is perfect, why are they copying OS X?
21:42:39 <ben_goodger> fjb: yes, but trying to administer Windows well will drive someone to suicide long before Linux
21:42:43 <svippy> But is cheaper to get a well administrated Linux than a Windows box.
21:42:46 <SmatZ> ben_goodger: good teachers you have
21:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it's so weird... i just read this RFC about the bot conversation, and then i read svippy's conversation here, and they look exactly alike
21:42:48 <svippy> Well, at least in most usecases I have read.
21:43:07 <svippy> Eddi|zuHause, I work hard to fail the Turing test.
21:43:43 <ben_goodger> SmatZ: tell me about it... our syllabus was written in 2000 so we had to put "not writeable" as a disadvantage of CDs (in 2006)
21:44:07 <ben_goodger> I don't like lying to pass exams. it's one of the many reasons I have become a depressed cynical shell of a teenager
21:44:15 <fjb> Depends who your administrator is. When you hae trained Windows people at hand Windows may be the cheaper and more secure way. It just depends.
21:44:29 <Bjarni> speaking of security. Somebody made a proof of concept where he got safari for windows to download a file to the desktop without the user knowing it. Next time he started IE it would run the downloaded dll and start notepad
21:44:40 <Bjarni> naturally this is seen as a security issue
21:44:54 <ben_goodger> apple refused to patch it, no?
21:44:56 <svippy> Mixing Safari and IE was never a good idea.
21:45:04 <svippy> Yeah, ben_goodger, because they want Windows users to suffer.
21:45:08 <Bjarni> Apple says that it's not entirely their fault because "why the fuck would IE execute a dll file just because it's on the desktop???"
21:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> they are usually used for short distances <- all modern long distance trains are push-pull now
21:45:18 <svippy> I can imagine Steve Jobs stroking his cat right now.
21:45:40 <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause: what about DMUs?
21:45:48 <Bjarni> <ben_goodger> apple refused to patch it, no? <-- they didn't say that but they didn't claim to try to fix it either
21:45:50 <svippy> Bjarni: Because IE is made of fail?
21:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> typical "asymmetric" vehicles there are dining cars and baggage wagons
21:46:16 <ben_goodger> Bjarni: on /. --- "if safari downloads things to the desktop, it is because all user agents should do so, and apple are the only people with the wisdom, foresight and polo sweaters to implement it"
21:46:18 <svippy> <@Bjarni> <ben_goodger> apple refused to patch it, no? <-- they didn't say that but they didn't claim to try to fix it either <-- They said they would fix it in an update, but they didn't consider it critical or a security issue.
21:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ben_goodger: especially those are push-pull ;)
21:46:38 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> they are usually used for short distances <- all modern long distance trains are push-pull now <-- they tend to be DMU/EMU based. Those aren't push pull
21:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and only ICEs are EMUs, all other long distance trains are engine-driven with a steering wagon at the end
21:47:53 <ben_goodger> in britain we have HSTs which are push-pull, and from the 70s.... and 180s, 22*s, 158s, 390s which are DMU/EMUs from the 00s
21:48:14 <ben_goodger> oh, we also have class 90s and 47s which are pull-only
21:48:32 <ben_goodger> long-distance, I mean
21:49:18 <ben_goodger> people appear to like DMUs mostly nowadays. maybe it's the acceleration or the screaming of the engines that attracts them to them, but I am not sure
21:49:19 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> [...], all other long distance trains are engine-driven with a steering wagon at the end <-- sounds stupid. Here steering cars aren't allowed to go faster than 140 km/h when they are in front for security issues
21:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> short distance trains are much more likely to be DMU/EMU
21:50:14 <ben_goodger> it has been said that VW is the new german empire...
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21:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause> did you know that VW was founded by Hitler?
21:51:45 <Bjarni> <ben_goodger> people appear to like DMUs mostly nowadays. maybe it's the acceleration or the screaming of the engines that attracts them to them, but I am not sure <-- modern trains have problems with high force. Basically there is a limit to how much the tracks can survive from each axle so spreading the same amount of force on to more axles the impact on the tracks is way smaller and you can accelerate faster with less wear on th
21:52:34 <ben_goodger> the thing is, the quiet carriage on the HST is right next to the "pull" loco, and it's quiet as anything other than the slam-doors
21:53:20 <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause: I did indeed know that...then again, the nazis did many great things that have nothing to do with killing
21:53:22 <Bjarni> you mean it's full of engine noise?
21:53:36 <ben_goodger> DMUs are full of engine noise.
21:54:01 <Bjarni> generally I don't consider engine noise in a DMU as an issue
21:54:07 <Bjarni> the vibrations are though
21:54:08 <ben_goodger> sorry, the carriage is as quiet as anything; besides the slam-doors, which are loud
21:54:18 * fjb thinks what that good things may have been.
21:55:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "Bpmbdzf 296-3" <- now that's a cool classification for a wagon ;)
21:55:30 <ben_goodger> fjb: they appear to have pulled germany out of the worst recession in recent history and created large amounts of employment, one of the best motorway networks in the world and a wonderful car
21:55:47 <Bjarni> TEE had really noisy diesel engines. They were pretty well sound isolated from the passengers though
21:56:21 <ben_goodger> obviously the holocaust was utterly, completely unforgivable, but I don't think we should associate volkswagen with it just because they were started by the same government
21:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, obviously the motorway network was majorly driven as a war-infrastructure-preparation
21:57:20 <ben_goodger> hans reiser is a murdering bastard, but many people still use his filesystem for its independent merit
21:57:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and the VW was used as a means to gather money for these preparations
21:57:32 <fjb> ben_goodger: They spend far more money then they had. Germany was bankrupt within a few years.
21:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ben_goodger: was he actually convicted?
21:57:49 <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause: for first-degree murder, yes
21:58:06 <ben_goodger> he's planning to have it reduced to second-degree by locating her
21:58:42 <fjb> The motorway network was planed long before the Nazis took the country over. And it is a myth that they were build to prepere the war.
22:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: it's less myth than you think, e.g. a long straight stripe of Autobahn near Dessau was specially prepared without middle-stripe to be used as emergency landing and starting stripe for planes
22:00:36 <fjb> Henry Ford was a big fan of Hitler. He trained some of the VW engineers.
22:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, ford did have car factories in germany since the 1920's
22:01:25 <ben_goodger> good for them. he was a good businessman
22:01:29 <Bjarni> <fjb> ben_goodger: They spend far more money then they had. Germany was bankrupt within a few years. <--- actually Germany arrested some businessmen because they tried to make personal profit on decreasing the economy in Germany. Today we can't say either way if it's true or not but we can say that it's likely not just due to one thing that they ended up having money problems
22:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Ford Germany recently celebrated 75 years
22:01:48 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Preparing motoways as emergency landing stripes is quite cmmon around the world. Especially peacefull countriss like Swizerland do this.
22:02:29 <ben_goodger> Bjarni: I think it's likely that the money problems occurred as a result of being continually attacked by multiple countries simultaneously over six years...though that may be completely the wrong time period
22:02:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they "unbuilt" that preparation on this segment meanwhile ;)
22:02:43 <ben_goodger> switzerland aren't peaceful
22:03:13 <ben_goodger> they're neutral, not pacifists
22:03:13 <ben_goodger> every man over 25 is in the swiss national militia and keeps a loaded rifle in his home
22:03:18 <ben_goodger> ...according to a book I have
22:03:20 <fjb> ben_goodger: Germany was bankrupt before the war started.
22:03:25 <svippy> When was the last time I heard of something violent happening in Switzerland was... NEVER!
22:03:26 <Bjarni> Switzerland once attacked Liechtenstein
22:03:33 <ben_goodger> fjb: ah...but less bankrupt than in the 20s?
22:03:33 <Bjarni> and it was actually not long ago
22:03:41 <svippy> Something violent in Swiss history.
22:03:48 <Bjarni> the army was on training and got lost
22:04:14 <ben_goodger> I reckon they should annex andorra
22:04:27 <svippy> I guess that's what happens when your maps have to be in German, French and Italian.
22:04:33 <Bjarni> when they figured out where they had ended up they were not in Switzerland anymore. Moving in with an army without telling anybody first usually means war
22:04:34 <Eddi|zuHause> svippy: switzerland shot down several german (and also british) planes during WWII that entered swiss air space (despite warings)
22:04:48 <Bjarni> they quickly returned though
22:04:55 <ben_goodger> see, neutral, not pacifists
22:05:10 <fjb> ben_goodger: germany had economical problems in the 20s, like most other countries did. But it was not bankrupt. The Nazis made it bankrupt with in a few years.
22:05:58 <ben_goodger> fjb: very well...but you should write to the high school history book writers here, and have them corrected in that case
22:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: germany's economy of the late '20s was built on american credits, the economy got in huge trouble when the american banks pulled back their fundings because of the crisis in the '30s
22:06:37 <Bjarni> ben_goodger: I don't think that's possible
22:06:52 <Eddi|zuHause> this was actually the basis of the rising of the nazi party
22:07:06 <ben_goodger> indeed. hyperinflation leads to the loss of democracy
22:07:12 <glx> <@Bjarni> Apple says that it's not entirely their fault because "why the fuck would IE execute a dll file just because it's on the desktop???" <-- I have read something about that, it will just spam the desktop
22:07:14 <Bjarni> you see some countries arrest people if they start arguing if anything about the nazis might be incorrect
22:07:18 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the hyperinflation was long before that
22:07:28 <fjb> Still Swizerland did not start a war after building motorways that can be turned into emergency landing stripes.
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22:07:49 <Bjarni> fjb: maybe they are still preparing
22:08:16 <ben_goodger> still, no matter what the history of various countries, we're all OK now, hopefully
22:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the hyperinflation was the cause of the american funding
22:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> which created economic rising and political stability for about 5 years
22:08:51 <fjb> What will they conquer? Lichtenstein?
22:09:21 <ben_goodger> andorra, as I said
22:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: switzerland is not allowed to start a war, because of the neutrality
22:09:43 <fjb> No country is allowed to start a war.
22:09:56 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently the US are ;)
22:10:16 <fjb> The Us are the don't care case.
22:10:41 <ben_goodger> fjb: I think they do now, though
22:10:43 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the swiss neutrality is an international "law" since the peace of westphalia (1648)
22:10:45 <Bjarni> are you thinking of Iraq?
22:10:48 <ben_goodger> with gas rising above $4/gal...
22:11:00 <ben_goodger> of course, they forget that europeans typically pay more than $10
22:11:10 <Bjarni> they attacked Iraq due to false information from Israeli intelligence
22:11:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i can never compare these "gal" prices, what's that in liter?
22:11:52 <ben_goodger> about 50c, I think
22:11:53 <fjb> Bjarni: I doubt that. They planed to get the Oil under their control.
22:11:53 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: google "1 gal in l"
22:11:58 <Bjarni> if you want cheap petrol then go to Panama
22:12:14 <Touqen> 1 gal is approximately 3 liters
22:12:26 <svippy> Google says: 4 (U.S. dollars per US gallon) = 0.679498559 Euros per litre
22:12:58 <ben_goodger> svippy: interesting... it also says "4 (U.S. dollars / gal) = 0.565800675 Euros / litre"
22:13:14 <svippy> That's because you are doing it wrong.
22:13:41 <ben_goodger> ah, it seems to be using imperial gallons for some reason
22:13:41 <ben_goodger> ok, 68 cents per litre
22:13:48 <svippy> (4 U.S. dollars) per US gallon = 1.05668821 U.S. dollars per litre
22:13:53 <ben_goodger> and in the UK it's 1.46 euros
22:13:57 <SmatZ> google "3 usd / gal in euro / l"
22:13:57 <svippy> gal is imperial gallon, gallon is US gallon.
22:14:07 <svippy> You get wrong result, SmatZ.
22:14:11 <svippy> As I just pointed out.
22:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> 1,50 (€ / l) = 8,8300408 US$ per US gallon <- that's what they cost around here
22:14:24 <Bjarni> <fjb> Bjarni: I doubt that. They planed to get the Oil under their control. <-- that something critics claimed afterwards. They acted on information from Israel that Iraq should have weapons of mass destruction and plans on using them against US interests. While the news talked about the new war in Iraq Israel started their own offensive against Palestine and the media didn't really talk about it
22:14:36 <ben_goodger> 1,50? you have my pity....
22:15:01 <svippy> We don't need your pity.
22:15:21 <ben_goodger> in fact, I'm probably richer
22:15:34 <svippy> Hey, Bjarni, we live in the country that pays most taxes.
22:15:41 <svippy> And yet, I feel like I can afford it all.
22:15:41 <ben_goodger> svippy: where are you?
22:16:18 <ben_goodger> of course, diesel is up around 1.65 euro here
22:16:30 <ben_goodger> it's bloody stupid. diesel should cost _less_ than gasoline
22:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> well, 1,50 is relative, it tends to jump up and down about 10 ct during each week
22:17:05 <svippy> Diesel is fucking horrible to environment.
22:17:19 <glx> and there's more demand for it
22:17:24 <Bjarni> <svippy> Hey, Bjarni, we live in the country that pays most taxes. <-- the taxes are so high that many people resort to cheat on taxes because it's simply not possible to get the work done with the current taxes
22:18:31 <Bjarni> I mean you need a new door. You pay somebody to install it. 20% of the bill is taxes. The company pays income taxes and the guy who did the work needs to get his paycheck too where he pays say 60%
22:19:07 <svippy> We get some great services in this country.
22:19:14 <Bjarni> combine those costs and you will see how many doors you donated to the state when you just needed one door yourself
22:19:15 <svippy> I know people keep saying there are problems.
22:19:22 <svippy> But that is because Denmark is a whiner nation.
22:19:40 <Bjarni> it's because service actually is poor
22:19:57 <Bjarni> because money is wasted
22:20:12 <svippy> Denmark has some of the most efficient health care system in the world.
22:20:12 <Bjarni> the system is very inefficient
22:20:22 <svippy> According to several reports.
22:20:36 <svippy> And it has lacks in certain areas that need being addressed.
22:20:38 <Bjarni> yet the risk of dying from say cancer is far greater than if you get cancer in say Sweden or Norway
22:20:59 <svippy> Yeah, because the risk of dying of boredom in Norway and Sweden overtakes that stat.
22:21:20 <Bjarni> that's a fucked up argument
22:21:45 <svippy> You are realising I am not really taking this discussion *that* seriously?
22:21:48 * Bjarni notice that svippy wants to live on social welfare
22:23:12 <Bjarni> you use arguments like you want to do that
22:23:15 <svippy> I wonder what political view you have, Bjarni.
22:23:32 <svippy> Well, maybe because I do.
22:23:40 <svippy> Because I consider myself a socialist.
22:23:50 <svippy> But often I am not interested in what my opinion is.
22:24:02 <svippy> I am often near Stalin, SmatZ.
22:24:18 <svippy> Damn passive aggressive.
22:24:22 <Bjarni> you can't tell the difference?
22:25:05 <svippy> Despite the fact that I disagree with a lot of his ways.
22:25:51 <Wuisch> darnit you need an mba to get that junction building
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22:26:18 <Bjarni> there is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment. <-- err... what kind of question is that?
22:26:47 <svippy> They are not questions.
22:26:59 <svippy> You describe whether you agree or disagree with them.
22:27:07 <Bjarni> that's not what I meant
22:27:14 <svippy> So, Sacro, how big is your Toilet Empire?
22:27:23 <Sacro> svippy: not installed it yet
22:27:24 <svippy> Yeah, Sacro, you need YAPP too.
22:27:35 <Wuisch> How does yapp make it easier?
22:27:38 <Bjarni> Sacro: BBC once made a show where they tried to find the worst toilet in Britain... I bet you watched all of it
22:27:40 <SmatZ> Bjarni: answer if you agree/disagree with that statement
22:27:43 <svippy> So the excrement can find it way doing into the toilet, Sacro.
22:27:53 <Sacro> svippy: several peices at once?
22:28:07 <Bjarni> but I wonder about the statement itself
22:28:14 <Bjarni> I find it an odd statement
22:28:26 <svippy> With YAPP, you can have several people use a toilet at once.
22:28:47 <ben_goodger> one designed to test your political stance on a two-dimensional scale of authoritarianism/libertarianism and communism/capitalism.
22:28:47 <ben_goodger> see, I did that from memory
22:28:48 <ben_goodger> I have a maths exam, so I'm going to bed. good night, europe
22:28:50 <ben_goodger> Recht und Freiheit!
22:29:24 <Tom0004> YAPP is another patch that as failed to make trunk, if i'm wrong then one of the devs please say
22:30:16 <svippy> Cause it will get you home.
22:30:58 <fjb> YAPP is still work in progress, not ready for trunk yet.
22:31:59 <Tom0004> look at all the PBS patches for OTTD they all failed at some jump if not too, i just feel this will follow the same road as the last ones
22:33:53 <fjb> Tom0004: Looks like you know more than the rest of us.
22:35:08 <SmatZ> "all the PBS patches" ?
22:35:11 <Tom0004> well, i'm just going on the past, i don't see any DEVs jumping to the defence of YAPP
22:36:23 <Rubidium> someone thinking otherwise, please show the two that are not YAPP
22:37:01 <SmatZ> well, the one that was in OTTD and another one at tt-forums
22:41:00 <Tom0004> thats been 3, MiniIN patch, Patch by wolfc, amd YAPP
22:41:28 <Tom0004> none have made offical trunk, and yet no one is jumping to defende YAPP
22:41:58 <SmatZ> hmm no it is a different patch (that link)
22:42:40 <SmatZ> PBS was in official trunk
22:43:27 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by hackykid :: r2516 /trunk (30 files in 5 dirs) (2005-07-04 14:58:55 UTC)
22:43:28 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: - Feature: [pbs] Implement path-based-signalling. This allows multiple trains within the same signal block, provided their paths dont intersect. For this the block must have all exit and entry signals be pbs signals. Place these by ctrl-clicking 4 times on a normal signal.
22:43:30 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: - Feature: [pbs] Implement autoplacement of pbs blocks, when a block has an entry and an exit pbs signal, covert the entire block to pbs. Can be turned off in the patch settings.
22:43:31 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: - Feature: [pbs] Allow showing of reserved status by making the tracks darker, when the pbs debug level is at least 1.
22:44:35 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by Darkvater :: r3472 /trunk (52 files in 5 dirs) (2006-01-29 18:57:26 UTC)
22:44:36 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: - [PBS] Remove from trunk. Anyone interested can still find it in branch/pbs. This reverts revisions r3158, r3140, r3075, r2977, r2674, r2625, r2621, r2529, r2528, r2525, r2524, r2519, r2517, r2516, r2507, r2499. (in conjunction with Tron)
22:44:37 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: - The only change is that the nsignalsw.grf file is kept and that existing nightlies with PBS signals get those signals converted to combo-signals.
22:44:59 <Bjarni> ok I'm done with that political compass thingie
22:45:09 <Bjarni> and the result is clear
22:45:22 <Bjarni> I discard the test as a reliable indicator
22:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Your political compass
22:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Economic Left/Right: -1.75
22:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97
22:45:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm almost a ghandi
22:46:47 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> why? <-- it declared me a communist
22:46:54 <Bjarni> which is pretty far from the truth
22:47:25 <Bjarni> we all know it didn't work
22:47:50 <Eddi|zuHause> "communism" != "real existing socialism"
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22:47:59 <Bjarni> but I was about to discard it even before I saw the result
22:48:52 * fjb wonders if Bjarni discards mirrors too...
22:48:55 <Bjarni> the statements were designed so I could see that if I claimed to agree with them then they presumed that I agree with something else but if I disagreed with them then I would answer the question incorrectly
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22:49:33 <Bjarni> a test can't be better than the people who made it
22:50:39 <Bjarni> I once complained about an IQ test because the correct answers were incorrect and they had to admit that I was right
22:51:58 <Bjarni> actually I think politics are too complex for left-right talk
22:52:11 <Bjarni> here it's in 2D but still it's made somewhat simple
22:52:24 <Bjarni> way to simple compared to how complex it really is
22:52:40 <Bjarni> besides it assumes a lot of stuff
22:53:05 <SmatZ> Economic Left/Right: -7.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21
22:53:07 <Bjarni> like liberalism and free marked/great economy are linked together
22:53:15 <Bjarni> but how about looking at China
22:53:26 <Bjarni> it's a one party system what you can't disagree with
22:53:33 <Bjarni> yet they have great growth
22:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> one thing that political compass told me: i could almost never become a political leader, they all are on the other side...
22:55:22 <Bjarni> I can't be a politician because politics aren't about political views but who knows who
22:55:55 <Bjarni> and who is best at surviving backstabbing
22:56:01 <fjb> I can't be a politician, I'm too honest.
22:56:45 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: where did you read that?
22:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> did you look at the picture at the bottom?
22:57:25 <Eddi|zuHause> all the world's leaders are on the authoritarian side
22:57:48 <Bjarni> on the night before the last election TV had live debate with all the parties. The TV station then said that they learned that only one party didn't change political views in the time between the date for the election was set and the election
22:57:59 <Bjarni> everybody else read opinion polls
22:59:10 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: are you saying that you are an anarchist?
22:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i would not go that far ;)
23:00:42 <Bjarni> but are you all below the middle?
23:00:54 <SmatZ> [00:45:53] <Eddi|zuHause> Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97
23:01:03 <SmatZ> it means bellow the middle
23:02:31 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> Economic Left/Right: -7.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21 <-- looks like an anarchistic communist
23:02:58 <SmatZ> 1 Euro / l = 5.88972219 U.S. dollars / US gallon
23:03:12 <SmatZ> I don't think I was anarchist or communist
23:03:38 <Bjarni> -7.75 looks pretty red to me
23:03:52 <SmatZ> and for control of internatinal companies and monopols
23:04:07 <SmatZ> yeah more than I expected
23:04:12 <SmatZ> what were your results?
23:04:26 <Bjarni> Economic Left/Right: -3.88
23:04:26 <Bjarni> Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 5.18
23:04:44 <Bjarni> I'm not sure that I agree with them though
23:05:38 <SmatZ> religious people are sure not liberal, so...
23:06:24 <Bjarni> I wouldn't consider myself strongly religious if that is what you mean
23:06:54 <SmatZ> there were many questions about sex, abortins, homosexuals, ...
23:07:34 <Bjarni> I consider that morale rather than religious issues
23:08:34 <Bjarni> like being against homosexual child adoption for the sake of the child don't need to have anything to do with religion
23:09:55 <SmatZ> I am liberal in means "nobody should care what you do unless you limit others"
23:10:29 <SmatZ> I don't think it is any better for children to grow in children's home
23:11:22 <Bjarni> maybe that's because you compare to what you see in Eastern Europe
23:11:40 <Wuisch> is there away to make the one way signals along an entire track easily?
23:11:46 <SmatZ> do you think you have worse homosexuals than we?
23:12:15 <Wuisch> won't that make normal signals ?
23:12:16 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> do you think you have worse homosexuals than we? <-- I meant children's homes ;)
23:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Wuisch: no, it copies the first signal if it already exists
23:13:08 <SmatZ> Bjarni: I would like to see your children's homes then
23:13:21 <SmatZ> and statistics about criminality of youths who grew there
23:13:34 <SmatZ> and how many people take care about children there
23:13:53 <SmatZ> and how much "love" and "home" feelings they have
23:14:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i think keeping children in groups helps with building social contacts
23:14:34 <Bjarni> statistics aren't good but that's mainly because it's near impossible to remove children from bad parents so they do that when the police catches a 10 year old for the 10th time in a stolen car
23:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, there is no substitute to "home" and "parents"
23:14:44 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: you don't have to grow in children's home to be in group with other children :-)
23:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it's all a matter of balance
23:15:54 <SmatZ> I think it is better to have family and loving parents, even when they are homosexual
23:16:15 <SmatZ> than to have bad parents, like Bjarni mentioned...
23:16:18 <Bjarni> I don't think any "normal" children end up in children's homes here
23:16:26 <SmatZ> or than to grow in children's house
23:16:45 <SmatZ> Bjarni: what about children whose mother gave up the child?
23:17:26 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> Bjarni: what about children whose mother gave up the child? <-- we don't really have those
23:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> those should go into psychological treatement
23:17:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the mothers i mean
23:18:02 <Bjarni> as svippy mentioned we have the highest tax in the world so there is tax money for poor single mothers
23:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and convinced to keep the child
23:19:01 <Eddi|zuHause> children should be kept with the biological parents as much as possible
23:19:21 <SmatZ> Bjarni: maybe you should try living here, maybe you would find Czech republic is nice, but of course you have to get used to it :)
23:19:53 <Bjarni> to be honest I don't know Czech conditions very well
23:20:08 <Bjarni> but I think they are far better than Romania and Bulgaria
23:21:10 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> Bjarni: maybe you should try living here <-- I wouldn't be able to talk to anybody :s
23:22:27 <fjb> Bjarni: Sometimes even we don't understand you.
23:22:41 <SmatZ> it takes time to learn the language, you can use English at big cities, but I wouldn't bet on it :)
23:24:18 <Bjarni> I'm working together with a Polish at uni at the moment. He has been here for half a year and the other day he said that he has yet to find somebody who can't/won't speak English
23:25:30 <SmatZ> Bjarni: well, if you knew Russian, you could speak with most older people, too
23:25:46 <SmatZ> and English with younger
23:31:23 <Bjarni> Russian can't be that tricky
23:31:32 <Bjarni> you just add "ski" at the end of all words
23:33:38 <Sacro> thanksie veryski muchski budski
23:33:48 <Bjarni> Yuri might have something to say to me about such a statement though >_<
23:35:28 <Bjarni> for all I know it could mean "die you son of a bitch"
23:36:34 <Bjarni> some English writer got her book translated to Danish and she saw it and looked at it. She then complained to the translator because the last page had in big types "SLUT"
23:36:48 <Bjarni> she didn't want words like that in her book
23:36:56 <Bjarni> but it actually means "the end"
23:38:07 * Sacro loves the London Underground Limited
23:38:48 <Bjarni> you are pretty limited yourself
23:43:30 <Bjarni> considering what else you can get in here I guess you might ask for me
23:45:05 <SmatZ> there are data, bdata, idata, pdata, xdata and code memory types for Keil Cx51 compiler
23:45:27 <Bjarni> data is the internal memory
23:45:34 <Bjarni> xdata is external memory (slower)
23:45:36 <SmatZ> I understand there is bit memory, external memory, code (ROM) memory and data memory...
23:46:51 <SmatZ> well, what is pdata then?
23:46:58 <Bjarni> that's basically it. It tells where in the hardware you want to store something
23:47:08 <SmatZ> or are there any memory types that include external memory switching?
23:48:27 <SmatZ> I would understand 4, maybe 5 memory types... but I fail to understand what idata/pdata can be :)
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continue to next day ⏵
