IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-06-05
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00:15:50 <Pikka> ugh.. how do I change the default currency etc in OTTD? :O I knew once...
00:17:14 <Touqen> Game Options on the main menu
00:18:15 <Pikka> it doesn't seem to want to stick though
00:18:33 <Touqen> You could set it in your cnf file.
00:22:50 <Touqen> You can put currency = <currency identifier> in the [gameopt] section of openttd.cfg
00:28:11 <Touqen> Are you editing the right one?
00:28:49 <Rubidium> then it's probably some bug
00:29:08 <Pikka> yeah.. it works in 0.6.1 but not in trunk, even if I just copy the config over.
00:30:08 <Rubidium> I think I know what the problem is, just solving it takes time which I will have after I slept
00:30:21 <Pikka> yeah, it has it in [gui] in trunk, glx
00:30:25 <Pikka> but editing it there has no effect :)
00:30:45 <glx> it's not saved but it works until openttd is closed
00:31:34 <Rubidium> the quick fix is removing opntitle.dat
00:31:40 <glx> I didn't check the cfg after closing
00:32:02 <Rubidium> glx: loading is okay too, it's just loading the introgame that sets it
00:32:32 <Rubidium> as said before: I know how to solve it, but I'm too sleepy to fix it now
00:33:07 <Pikka> yeah, removing the introgame fixes it
00:33:40 <Rubidium> now sleepy time and fixy time will be tomorrow
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01:43:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13383 /trunk/src/ (town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Put the cost of house removal in a class member
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06:17:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: miham * r13384 /trunk/src/lang/ (19 files): (log message trimmed)
06:17:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-06-05 08:15:43
06:17:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 9 fixed, 6 changed by tucalipe (15)
06:17:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: catalan - 9 fixed by arnaullv (9)
06:17:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: croatian - 13 fixed by knovak (13)
06:17:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: czech - 33 fixed by Hadez (33)
06:17:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: danish - 47 fixed by ThomasA (47)
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07:38:45 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13385 /trunk/src/articulated_vehicles.cpp: -Fix (r12137): In the purchase list, CB36 for capacity was not called for the first part of rail and road vehicles.
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09:29:33 <blathijs> wolfy: Are you the wolf from the forum that is working on the S60 port?
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10:00:03 <Noldo> what does livery override actualy do?
10:02:22 <peter1138> changes the image based on the engine
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10:03:46 <Noldo> wagon has some kind of default appearance and the optional ones that are selected by the front engine of the train?
10:06:47 <Noldo> but tha canset makes is not willing to make a pure generic appearance and optionals for the engines in the same set?
10:11:02 <peter1138> shocking, us petrol prices are not an all time high
10:11:11 <peter1138> at half of what we pay!
10:12:03 <Pikka> noldo: no idea, you'd have to ask the maker
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10:34:48 <Ailure> Imagine the nois levels in the building though
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10:40:31 <dih> say i wanted to map a clients unique_id to a company_id
10:40:38 <dih> how could i go about doing that?
10:41:01 <dih> what kind of var would i need
10:42:18 <dih> forget my question, have an aswer :-P
10:42:27 <Rubidium> peter1138: isn't that one in Osaka?
10:46:26 <Rubidium> I drove in a bus on the road just behind that building
10:46:39 <TiberiusTeng> hello folks, I've updated the NewGRF GUI patch to make it horizontally scalable.
10:47:25 <TiberiusTeng> wanna play some OpenGL code from now :p
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10:49:42 <Rubidium> Ailure: Japanese cars are more silent than the stuff running in Europe (which is quiet with respect to the US)
11:08:49 <peter1138> Rubidium: tyre noise is still there though
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11:25:29 <Tim> Do you already know that the Industry-List does not work properly anymore?
11:27:02 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13386 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Fix: global currency/units setting being overriden when loading a savegame.
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11:34:40 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13387 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix: industry directory sorting not working correctly (= != ==)
11:41:31 <planetmaker> nine minutes patch time. Now that was fast.
11:42:09 <Tim> Time to get the next nightly ;-)
11:42:49 <Tim> And thanks Rubidium :) Hate playing without that feature...
11:45:41 <Tim> Yes, svn... I'll see if i can work that out^^
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11:46:12 <planetmaker> hm, sorry, no experience with developing there...
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12:08:47 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13388 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine_type.h newgrf.cpp table/engines.h): -Codechange: Remove "my invented flag for something that is a wagon"
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12:11:59 <orudge> "-Fix: global currency/units setting being overriden when loading a savegame." <-- hmm, I never thought of that as a bug, more as of "well, this game was played with dollars, so that's how I'm going to give it to you" :P
12:12:27 <Gekz> that's how I took it to be
12:12:36 <Gekz> but the keyword "global"
12:12:49 <Gekz> does that mean that savegame is that currency, but the default once you exit is still what you had it as
12:12:56 <orudge> that's what I was just going to ask :p
12:12:56 <Gekz> because that's how I read it
12:13:15 <peter1138> orudge: i think it means that it overrode your defaults with whats in the game
12:13:16 <orudge> I'm guessing not, but haven't actually looked at the commit code
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12:48:59 <TiberiusTeng> is anybody here familiar with OTTD's graphics rendering system?
12:49:23 <TiberiusTeng> I'm now trying to figure out if it caches unchanged region ...
12:49:26 <peter1138> that all depends on the real question
12:49:40 <peter1138> only dirty areas are redrawn, yes.
12:51:21 <TiberiusTeng> so if I'm writting a blitter, I should assume that previously drawn contents never get cleared between redraw
12:52:09 <peter1138> might depend on the circumstances
12:52:52 <peter1138> from ottd's point of view, only the dirty bits are redrawn, heh
12:53:32 <glx> and if there are too many dirty zones then the screen is fully redrawn
12:53:58 * peter1138 stopped work on an opengl blitter due to issues :o
12:54:07 <TiberiusTeng> ha, that's what I'm trying now
12:54:34 <TiberiusTeng> but the infrastructure is way too biased toward a raster-based system
12:55:06 <peter1138> just a little. if you need to you can ignore the dirty areas and redraw the whole thing
12:55:12 <peter1138> but that gets slow :)
12:55:30 <TiberiusTeng> I've found a (quick) way to let GPU handle palette-based textures with fragment shaders
12:56:01 <peter1138> i didn't use shaders, just cached the palettes, heh
12:56:27 <glx> so you are using hardware acceleration?
12:57:02 <peter1138> my problems with opengl came from other windows rendering over ottd
12:57:10 <peter1138> with no event to handle that
12:57:16 <peter1138> in theory it should be simple really
12:57:21 <TiberiusTeng> I think it's very possible to draw original GRF color-animated sprites along with 32-bit PNG sprites very fast
12:57:22 <peter1138> just repaint the whole lot
12:57:31 <peter1138> it is easily possible
12:57:43 <peter1138> well, maybe not animated
12:57:48 <peter1138> that requires reblitting sprites
12:57:53 <TiberiusTeng> but after digging into the code these days, I think bottleneck will be elsewhere ...
12:58:03 <TiberiusTeng> yeah, I can use shaders to do that
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12:58:29 <peter1138> not supporting palette animation is no biggy, most people turn it off :)
12:58:58 <peter1138> the partial drawing of textures is annoying
12:59:00 <TiberiusTeng> then it don't look like 'original' :p and TTRS have some very good animated buildings too
12:59:20 <Rubidium> palette animation != animation
12:59:47 <TiberiusTeng> right now I'm doing it very naively, treating a sprite as a texture, and using texture coordinates to crop out where I want
12:59:53 <Rubidium> smoke, explosions, industries = animation, water and fire = palette animation
13:00:14 <SmatZ> and lighthouse, crossing, right?
13:00:18 <TiberiusTeng> if I got some working screenshots I'll post it here ...
13:00:19 <peter1138> even so, ttrs has some pretty well palette animated buildings :p
13:00:37 <Rubidium> but so do the default graphics
13:02:47 <TiberiusTeng> I'm also wondering if 32bpp branch will support MNG/ANGs ... :p
13:02:55 <TiberiusTeng> looks like quite a lot of work, though
13:03:03 <Gekz> isnt the 23bpp branch dead?
13:03:18 <TiberiusTeng> ahh, already merged?
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13:03:43 <TiberiusTeng> seems so, or I won't have these blitters sitting around ... :p
13:08:15 <Belugas> 32bpp branch is not merged. rather, the current 32bpp code (and other blitters) has been kinda rewritten
13:17:44 <peter1138> all the wrong numbers doubled :o
13:17:57 <peter1138> well that was before my time
13:18:08 <peter1138> i know, i should commit in the past
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14:14:07 <iAN_> when I don't see the busses (two busses, the standard graphics) when they move from right to left, or in lists and menus, whom do I report that? The busses are visible on the map when they drive in one of the other 7 directions.
14:15:30 <iAN_> current version, all ECS grfs and some others
14:15:44 <glx> "current" is not a version ;)
14:16:03 <SmatZ> probably missing sprite for one direction
14:16:53 <glx> we need at least a savegame to know
14:17:10 <iAN_> well.. thats the least problem =)
14:20:53 <glx> grr and windows is again playing with readonly
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14:54:55 <Wolfensteijn> hehe, one factory, producing almost 10k of goods...
14:55:02 <Wolfensteijn> 9,993 to be exact
14:57:41 <Wolfensteijn> all steel and farm stuff is already being deliverd there
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15:05:06 <eemeli> how do i disable breakdowns?
15:08:51 <Progman> (not the patch settings)
15:18:28 <TiberiusTeng> I've drawed the mouse cursor ... a start ...
15:18:51 <TiberiusTeng> seems I won't have any further progress if I can't render-to-texture or do something like that :p
15:19:39 <Gekz> Wolfensteijn: thats insane
15:19:52 <Wolfensteijn> but I like it that way :)
15:21:09 <Belugas> only 70% transported? bof... i went to 90% once
15:21:35 <Belugas> but it does look like an efficient station(s) tough
15:21:36 <Wolfensteijn> ha! got 10,054 crates of goods there now :D
15:22:45 <Wolfensteijn> runs in 0.6.1 rc-2
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15:24:10 <Wolfensteijn> the effiency could be better
15:24:20 <Wolfensteijn> but I refuse to demolish everything, and build a 100% efficient network
15:27:36 <Wolfensteijn> anyone now looking at that game?
15:31:19 <Tim> Try to play with Realistic Acceleration
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15:33:04 <Wolfensteijn> Tim> realistic acceleration is enabled
15:34:28 <Tim> With all those 2*45 degree curves?
15:35:17 <Wolfensteijn> slowly working on replacing those, where possible
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15:39:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh i hate stations like this...
15:39:41 <Wolfensteijn> I'm constantly revising my network, so yeah, those cornes will get changed, sometime in the future ;)
15:39:42 * Ammler need to test TiberiusTeng modification of the GRF GUI.
15:39:47 <Wolfensteijn> Eddi|zuHause3> what for stations?
15:41:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2029.%20Dez%201955.png
15:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Erlangen%20Transport,%2012.%20Jul%201933.png
15:43:46 <Wolfensteijn> what's wrong with them?
15:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> they are nice, yours is wrong ;)
15:44:34 <Wolfensteijn> I'm not doing it for the realism ;)
15:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm not either, i'm doing it for the aesthetics ;)
15:46:10 <Wolfensteijn> optimizations and problem solving is what I do it for :)
15:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> i do optimisation, too ;)
15:47:38 <Wolfensteijn> I like the chaotic view of my network ;)
15:47:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> just on much stronger bounds ;)
15:48:14 <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: nice! (one little wish: possibility to order with the path ;-)
15:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> Path! I order you!
15:58:44 <Ammler> hmm, well, you know what I mean... :;-)
15:59:28 <TiberiusTeng> alright, I'll put that in mind ;)
16:00:30 <Ammler> :-) thank you very much
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16:15:00 <UnderBuilder> question: is possible to emulate diagonal roads by making roads not turn in one and other direction in zig-zag roads?
16:17:31 <SmatZ> RVs still will go as it was a zig-zag sprite
16:20:28 <LA> but how hard would it be to remove the zagging?
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16:28:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is about what i expected :p
16:30:46 <TiberiusTeng> it's still a long way toward playable ...
16:31:07 <TiberiusTeng> but it have sound, everything moves ... heck, I can even configure patches :p
16:38:39 <UnderBuilder> why when I do apt-get install openttd it tries to install me version 0.6.0?
16:38:40 <Ammler> hehe, the new grf gui from TiberiusTeng can be smaller then the current one.
16:40:11 <Touqen> UnderBuilder: Depends on whether the package maintainer made a 0.6.1 package
16:42:08 <Ammler> because debian builds are slow, you can try with suse packman, they often made the package too early. ;-)
16:46:17 <Rubidium> UnderBuilder: because it's not gone through the Debian build system
16:46:54 <Rubidium> it needs to be at least 10 days in unstable before it can go to testing
16:48:41 <TiberiusTeng> using OpenGL to blit back to memory is much more complicated than I anticipated ...
16:48:59 <TiberiusTeng> but looks like it do reduce CPU usage alot :D
16:52:54 <peter1138> no pics any more though
16:54:42 <peter1138> dunno if it might help, but it does actually draw everything properly ;p
16:55:14 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13389 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp news_type.h): -Codechange: remove NM_CALLBACK because that information could be gathered from the fact that a callback has been specified. Patch by Cirdan.
17:04:41 <Ammler> peter1138: I saw, you included some overrides in openttd?.grf, can I suggest an other combination or should I create a GRF :-) (USSet with ECS)
17:05:26 <Ammler> (could make the patch, if you like)
17:07:58 <Ammler> (not the patch, just the GRFs, I spoke about
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18:08:39 <DRebellion> Bit of a problem: my trains go into depots, but then they won't come out : (
18:09:54 <Prof_Frink> DRebellion: Is there another train in the signal block?
18:10:06 <DRebellion> No idea what that means
18:10:23 <Prof_Frink> On the same track, without passing a signal
18:10:43 <DRebellion> Prof_Frink, I haven't specifically laid any signals?
18:11:27 <hylje> signals are those funky green-red poles
18:11:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> only one train is allowed on the track
18:11:29 <Prof_Frink> What happens if you put a signal on the track each side of the depot branch?
18:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> i suggest a screenshot ;)
18:11:48 <hylje> the game lets only one train go on one delimited block at a time
18:12:43 <DRebellion> hylje, Eddi|zuHause3, Prof_Frink, thanks : )
18:12:51 * DRebellion goes to place signals EVERYWHERE
18:12:59 <hylje> watch out for deadlocks
18:13:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> there are good guides out there where you should place signals and where not
18:16:19 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause3, doyou have e general direction for those guides? at least one ;)
18:18:01 <Belugas> ho... i'll bookmark it for my own knowledge :D thanks a lot
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18:46:26 <eemeli> i have 2 stations near an oil refinery, 1 for dropping oil and 1 for loading goods
18:47:00 <eemeli> a goods train went thru the drop station (by accident) and now the refinery divides the goods, half for the drop and half for the load D:<
18:47:17 <eemeli> is there a way to force it not to use the dropping station for storing goods?
18:47:56 <Belugas> aprat from making sure no other trains are picking it on the wrong station
18:48:00 <Belugas> only time will do that
18:48:34 <eemeli> 1 train used it because i modified the tracks and didnt stop it in time
18:48:38 <Belugas> you could eventually use a autosave and restart from there...
18:48:39 <eemeli> but that was years ago
18:49:56 * frosch123 thinks of DaleStan's list of missing sign-cheats in ottd
18:50:28 <LA> if no trains will pick it up, the ratings will go very low and eventually the distribution stops
18:50:51 <LA> and it doesn't distribut 50/50 I'm certain
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19:14:57 * Bjarni arrests Sacro for attempting cannibalism
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19:15:19 <Bjarni> it would mean that both would have to be human beings
19:15:47 <Prof_Frink> bjarni bjarni bjarni
19:15:55 <Bjarni> peter1138 peter1138 peter1138
19:16:09 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink Prof_Frink Prof_Frink
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20:55:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13390 /trunk/src/ (19 files in 4 dirs):
20:55:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: introduce usererror() for fatal but not openttd related errors. Now
20:55:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: all error() will 'crash' openttd after showing the message in win32 releases
20:55:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: (MSVC), creating a crash.log and crash.dmp (like the '!' hack used before). On
20:55:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: the other hand, usererror() will just close the game. So use error() only when
20:55:05 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: it can be helpful to debugging, else use usererror().
21:19:01 <eemeli> is there any way to unload a newgrf without having to start a new game
21:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> depends on the kind of newgrf
21:19:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> there's a newgrf setting available from within the game
21:19:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> but it is more than likely to wreak havoc
21:20:23 <eemeli> well the grf shows disabled in the newgrf settings window
21:20:29 <eemeli> but the remove button is grey
21:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> even when you click on the grf?
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21:21:49 <glx> you can't modify newgrfs on a running network game
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21:23:35 <eemeli> i saved, loaded the game in singleplayer, removed the grf, saved, loaded in multiplayer and its gone :d
21:23:53 <eemeli> but im still not getting electric trains :(
21:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> you still have not said what kind of grf
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21:24:33 <eemeli> uk trains renewal or something
21:24:47 <glx> ukrs has electric engines
21:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> changing a vehicle grf may require to do "resetengines" on the console
21:25:08 <eemeli> the grf was disabled in the list
21:25:16 <eemeli> said that there was some parameter error for climate
21:25:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, it will not work in tropical climate
21:25:35 <glx> it's designed for temperate
21:25:44 <Tom0004> if it was disable, then it wasn't being used ? :s
21:25:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> and in tropical climate, the default vehicles do not provide any electrics
21:26:57 <eemeli> guess i found that out the hard way
21:27:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> it would most likely tell that in the wiki ;)
21:28:30 <Tom0004> moe then lilky tell you on the autors homepage for UKRS
21:29:19 <Tom0004> UKRS is for temp, and arc climates
21:29:54 <Tom0004> personal note : forgive the spelling, i;ve been drink :(
21:30:46 <Tom0004> in away yeah, cold night for me on the sofa lol
21:31:08 <eemeli> i used the cheat menu to switch the climate and now i have electrics :))))
21:31:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> i would really suggest you to start a new game :p
21:32:13 <eemeli> i spent too much time on that one station D:
21:32:26 <glx> climate cheat may break things
21:32:41 <eemeli> well it filled the land with snow
21:32:44 <eemeli> other than that im good
21:33:02 <Tom0004> any chance you could post a screenshot of this station ?
21:34:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> eemeli: different climates have totally different cargo and industry systems, i doubt you'll get very far
21:34:31 *** jez is now known as jez9999
21:34:40 <jez9999> God... i just spent over 2 hours debugging a .net app. eventually discovered that the sudden losses of session state were because the site was configured to use an app pool with multiple worker processes and my app wasn't using the ASP state server :-(
21:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is the ugliest thing i have seen all day
21:38:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, really, it's even worse than Wolfensteijn's
21:39:25 <eemeli> also my friend said that his food stations dont give food anymore :/
21:39:30 <eemeli> so i guess its time for a new game
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21:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> eemeli: i told you it will screw up industries and cargos
21:40:14 <Rubidium> ancient version alert :)
21:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> that last one was probably with gonozal's patch pack, so 12180 or something
21:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> the first one is even older
21:41:40 <glx> yeah transparency GUI looks different ;)
21:42:13 <eemeli> lol water towers provide steel now
21:42:30 <glx> [23:32:27] <+glx> climate cheat may break things
21:43:29 <Tom0004> thats a funky station, not to start a new game lol
21:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> the first game i started with a newindustries testing version a little while before it was merged to trunk
21:44:34 <Rubidium> and some MiniIN parts
21:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> but that screenshot is newer, it already has diagonal foundations
21:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, the Ravenswald game was loadable with trunk most of the time
21:45:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> the snow is from alpine grf
21:47:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> it was a trunk game from the time newindustries was merged, to the time yapp (v3, i think) was released
21:48:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> only a few non-savegame-changing patches were applied
21:50:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> although it was already an "unclean" MiniIN (with bridges patch)
21:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> i kinda miss the diagonal road crossings, but they are just not possible anymore
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22:20:36 <jez9999> i never understand people who think big, grey monstrosities are 'nice stations'
22:20:50 <jez9999> i like relatively discreet stations
22:20:58 <jez9999> without rooves so i can see the trains
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22:31:01 <Vikthor> It's not about wheter it has roof or not, it's more about rail layout
22:32:46 <Vikthor> Then again, it depends on the type of station, for something small where stops one railbus per hour, such grey monstrosity is surely bad, but for central station in a big city, why not?
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22:59:01 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause3, the global variables that you mentionned is not exactly the same that mb was referring to ;)
22:59:32 <Belugas> i guess you were talking about those in the sources of ottd, while he was talking about the ones handled by the grfs
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23:48:20 <Kiloman> I have a question about transfers... does it reset the travel distance?
23:48:45 <Kiloman> say I have two farms, one within 20 tiles of a factory, and another 120 away
23:49:05 <Kiloman> if I run the further away farm through the closer farm and transfer the goods there
23:49:18 <Kiloman> are they worth 120 tiles, or 20 tiles, when dropped off at the factory?
23:50:30 <glx> cargo packets remember their origin
23:51:11 <Kiloman> okay... I was seeing like 12k in transfer credits on the feeder, but only like 5k on the final delivery
23:51:32 <Kiloman> are cargo packets a FIFO?
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23:52:20 <glx> maybe the last section is loosing money
23:53:56 <Kiloman> as in, the short-haul packets are highly penalized and are detracting from the value of the further ones?
23:54:39 <Rubidium> no, transporting packets away from the destination is penalized
23:55:59 <glx> there's an optimal distance for each speed
23:56:36 <Kiloman> I thought it was just distance from origin to destination
23:57:01 <Kiloman> and then corrected for early/late penalties
23:57:47 <Rubidium> Kiloman: if you move something from the southern tip of map to the northern tip of the map the and transfer it there vehicle gets a virtual profit for that distance (which is equal to the transfer credit)
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23:58:41 <Kiloman> right but that's just for show to keep from having trains run in the red on feeders
23:58:51 <Rubidium> if you move that cargo no to the eastern tip of the map that last vehicle will have a negative profit because the distance south->east is less than the distance south->north (which is the transfer credit)
23:59:34 <Kiloman> right but the transfer credit doesn't actually go in the bank, right?
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