IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-06-03
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00:24:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13366 /trunk/src/subsidy_gui.cpp: -Fix: clicking in the Subsidies window was broken
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00:50:38 <eemeli> anyone have any ideas on how to optimize my stations exit?
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00:51:47 <SmatZ> eemeli: you have too long signal block and you are using 2x45deg turns
00:54:24 <SmatZ> most problematic if you use realistic acceleration
00:55:30 <eemeli> i've tried to avoid any 90 degree curves
00:55:37 <eemeli> and i dont think i have any at that station O_o
00:56:56 <SmatZ> they are too steep anyway
02:11:16 <Belugas> i wonder what is wrong with ingame-screenshot utility
02:13:57 <Belugas> yeah, something like that :)
02:20:50 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13367 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp map.cpp map_func.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Allow CircularTileSearch function to return the tile where search has been successful, or INVALID_TILE if it has not
02:40:09 <bpZero> is it possible to stop the ships from sailing through each other
02:44:04 <Belugas> there are no collision check been performed
02:45:53 <Belugas> truely, i really doubt it
02:46:33 <Belugas> many :) how much of a crawl ou woiuld like the game to be?
02:46:52 <Belugas> may i turn it the other way around? why would you like that?
02:46:52 <bpZero> so it slows things down too much
02:47:29 <Belugas> yes indeed. already, ships are (pathfinding related) a reason of slowlyness
02:48:08 <bpZero> well soon everyone will have 256 cores at 6Ghz and then maybe the ships will solidify
02:48:41 <bpZero> anyway, the only fun is trains in ttd
02:49:01 <bpZero> and some buses/trams to transfer at your tran station
02:50:17 <bpZero> .. does openttd use multiple cores/cpus at all?
02:50:38 <Belugas> you see, i would not count on the "soon" cpu stuff ;) and even with a million cpus, OpenTTD will not gain anything, since it is a mono-threaded game, essentially ;)
02:50:58 <bpZero> ah ic, question answered
02:51:02 <Belugas> ho... seems i answered a question not even asked when i started typing :D
02:55:04 <bpZero> so what is the future of openttd?
02:55:21 <bpZero> stations in tunnels would be nice
02:55:51 <Belugas> the future is ahead on every commits!
02:56:08 <glx> bridges are not real either ;)
02:56:17 <Belugas> and stations in tunnels even less real :D
02:56:30 <bpZero> well how do the trains cross the river then?
02:57:13 <glx> bridges are like tunnels (black holes) with some extension so you can see them
02:57:20 <Belugas> what glx means is that in OpenTTD, the bridges are, technically, not really there.
02:57:31 <bpZero> yeah, i think i understand
02:57:40 <bpZero> only the end exist in the map
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02:57:53 <Belugas> the rest is just not there
02:58:02 <glx> yes, that's why you can build almost anything under them
02:58:37 <Belugas> who knows what can be done in the future...
02:59:09 <glx> and that's why you can't have signals on them
02:59:37 <Belugas> anbd that is why bridges nor tunels cannot bend either
02:59:52 <bpZero> ever think of putting signals on the bridge/tunnel heads?
03:00:12 <glx> there is/was a branch about that
03:01:05 <bpZero> well that would be good useful
03:01:21 * Sacro will start up a new patch tommorow
03:02:15 <Belugas> putting signals on head/end would not be the proper solution, bpZero. It's merely a plaster on a broken leg, if you see waht i mean
03:02:44 <Belugas> Sacro, all my wish of success ;)
03:02:55 <bpZero> well it would give you one more tile
03:06:28 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13368 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp table/town_land.h town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: give house's min/max_date a better name, as it is really year, not date
03:07:22 <Belugas> not really worth the effort, bpZero. TOo much to change just for 2 miserable tiles
03:07:29 <bpZero> so.. how long until version 1.0?
03:07:54 <glx> usual answer: when it's done
03:07:58 <Belugas> dunno about 1.0. maybe there will not be one :)
03:08:07 <Belugas> maybe we'll just go to 0.10 :D
03:08:14 <bpZero> heh, yeah, joke question
03:08:34 <bpZero> you should just drop the leading 0.
03:09:03 <bpZero> heh, every revision is minor?
03:09:56 <Belugas> apart when going from 0.x.y to 0.x.y+1, of course
03:10:10 <bpZero> OpenTTD: belugas * r13368 /trunk/src/ ... 13368
03:10:20 <bpZero> should just use that version number ;)
03:13:03 * Sacro takes his patch plans with him
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06:21:06 <LA> I was bored so I started making tram tracks based on rail tracks
06:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't like standard gauge trams
06:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> trams have to be meter gauge
06:30:01 <LA> pikka, no based on trg1r rail sprites :P.. But I got confuzed with the crossings part so far :/
06:35:23 <LA> Pikka: Although the outcomes will be similar :D
06:49:56 <LA> hmm.. too useless.. gonna do something else
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06:55:17 <LA> how do I define if an RV is a tram or a truck/bus?
06:56:16 <LA> and what action0 id should it change then? :/
06:59:51 <LA> but still what ID's should it use?
07:14:46 <Pikka> normalised inflation? :D
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07:18:54 <Pikka> precalculated inflation levels on game start so that the current 0 = 1920, instead of = whenever the game is started. :)
07:19:19 <peter1138> i thought someone had done that once
07:19:28 <peter1138> maybe that was engine reliability levels
07:19:56 <peter1138> you want to make it impossible to start later? ;)
07:20:20 <Pikka> no.. I want to make it so that it's not impossible if you start earlier. :O
07:21:15 <iAN_> I think I read your name somewhere in my oTTD extension grfs
07:21:56 <iAN_> I got a question. Somehow I managed to install fishies into my seas. Also I managed to get some fish-ships and some fish-cargo-train-hoppers
07:22:10 <iAN_> But how the heck can I order the ships to collect the fishies?
07:22:42 <iAN_> I think in ttdpatch it was to ctrl-place a buoy. That accepted cargo and was kind a station.
07:23:48 <Pikka> raise some land and build a dock?
07:23:53 <peter1138> oh, does the fishing area not include a station?
07:24:21 <iAN_> erm. raising land in the middle of the ocean (2 tiles) and building a dock is quite EXPENSIVE for a starter.
07:24:46 <peter1138> yes it is, but that's not what i said
07:24:58 <iAN_> Also it would look nicer when the ships go fishing and not dock on an island =)
07:25:25 <iAN_> The fishing area can't be set as station in the shedule list of ships
07:25:55 <iAN_> also I can't use a buoy. So far for now, I managed to "build a dock". But I thought there was a "better" solution implemented in oTTD
07:26:25 <peter1138> well i've never played with that so i'm not aware of a problem, heh
07:28:01 <peter1138> noone else has reported anything, but then people are good at finding workarounds instead ;)
07:29:22 <iAN_> building a buoy: 138$ building a dock: 125.000$
07:29:43 <iAN_> It's not really a good idea to start with fish then :-(
07:32:06 <iAN_> How complicated would it be to make buoys to stations?
07:32:45 <iAN_> or extend the fishing (source) to have a station included?
07:38:27 <Rubidium> one newgrf has fishing grounds without dock/heliport, another newgrf has fishing grounds with dock/heliport
07:38:46 <Rubidium> making a buoy a station is just a big hack
07:39:08 <Ammler> peter1138: it was reported and you thought, we should wait until newports
07:39:24 <Rubidium> as it'd allow you to dump passengers (or any cargo) on the buoy till another ship picks them up and such
07:40:21 <Noldo> and there would be no need for docks
07:42:52 <Ammler> Rubidium: you can't limit the capacity of a station? Else it might be an idea to limit the buoys with a cap of i.e. only 10 or so.
07:43:02 <Ammler> So you would need all the time a ship there...
07:44:22 <peter1138> Ammler: Reported to *me* ?
07:44:30 <iAN_> so I need the newgrf for fishing including a station
07:44:35 <Ammler> no, in this channel...
07:44:51 <peter1138> I bet it wasn't reported on flyspray, but I can't tell as its search feature is useless.
07:45:10 <iAN_> Rubidium: Do you have an URL for this newgrf?
07:45:36 <LA> grfcrawler.tt-forums.net i guess
07:45:43 <Ammler> yeah, it's no a bug and "waiting for new_ports" was good for me... :-)
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07:47:03 <iAN_> ECS Agricultural vector?
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08:00:42 <iAN_> Do I need the new Cargo Set?
08:00:53 <iAN_> (to use the ECS vector?)
08:04:58 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13369 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs):
08:04:58 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: remove duplication of network configuration settings between NetworkSettings and NetworkGameInfo.
08:04:58 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix: failure of changing the server password during games because the password wasn't duplicated properly.
08:06:46 <Ammler> [10:00] <iAN_> Do I need the new Cargo Set? <-- no, there are already new cargos with it :-)
08:07:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13370 /trunk/src/ (network/network_internal.h openttd.h variables.h): -Codechange: move the VARDEF stuff from openttd.h to variables.h so one doesn't need to include openttd.h before variables.h.
08:07:29 <Ammler> (it might be not compatible)
08:07:44 <iAN_> Ammler: thanks. I have to remove the newCargo
08:09:05 <Ammler> iAN_: a small advise: do not use all ECS vectors at once :-)
08:15:31 <iAN_> Ammler: right now trying to figure out how they work at all
08:21:41 <iAN_> I have multiple "passenger-named" hoppers, transporting anything except passengers
08:21:58 <iAN_> also I have _no_ iron ore hopper, which is needed for the iron ore
08:22:49 <iAN_> which grf is needed to have the right set of engines and trailers for those ECS-stuff?
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08:23:47 <peter1138> that should work with it
08:26:10 <iAN_> ECSDVeh is incompatible with th DB Set 0.82 ECS extension
08:28:36 <Ammler> that GRF was only for testing, you shouldn't use it
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08:53:37 <iAN_> okay. It became a lot more complicated with ECS
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09:29:18 <SandMouse> I just tried to join the Public SandBox to get myself familiar with your gameplay. I downloaded the right revision and GRF package.
09:29:37 <SandMouse> When I started the game I found the folowing on my console:
09:29:49 <SandMouse> 6/3/08 11:16:55 com.apple.launchd[93] ([0x0-0xa50a5].org.openttd.openttd[1247]) posix_spawnp("/Applications/Games/OpenTTD/OpenTTD.app/Contents/MacOS/openttd", ...): Bad executable (or shared library)
09:30:14 * SandMouse is using Mac OS 10.5.3
09:30:17 <iAN_> can you start the game as singleplayer on your machine?
09:30:29 <SandMouse> Nope it won't start at all.
09:30:57 <iAN_> I assume you have an own macOS version and not just the windows-files?
09:31:18 <SandMouse> Maybe needles to say but 0.6.0. stable and 0.6.1. stable runs withouth a glitch. (inclusing the NewGRF 7.0)
09:31:50 <SandMouse> I have both the DOS GRF data files and the WINDOWS GRF data files.
09:32:02 <iAN_> I thought about the binaries not the grf files
09:32:10 <iAN_> so you have a openttd mac-OS version?
09:32:58 <iAN_> then I'm out of the topic. I use windowsXP
09:33:03 <SandMouse> The stable versions are runing jsut fine.
09:33:19 * iAN_ . o O ( maybe thats why they are called "stable" )
09:33:53 <iAN_> So, why not join a "regular" multiplayer with your "stable" version?
09:34:07 <SandMouse> I just recently discovered the fun of online playing. Especially the COOP games.
09:34:14 <blathijs> Release macos binaries are built in a different manner than the nightly ones I think
09:34:28 <blathijs> so it might be that the nightly macos binaries are simply broken
09:34:33 <SandMouse> Well, the server I want to join uses this particular version.
09:34:47 <blathijs> SandMouse: You should poke Bjarni when he's around, he's our Mac guy
09:35:01 <iAN_> SandMouse: join a "regular" server and "join" a company instead of creating one
09:36:01 <SandMouse> Allright I'll drop Bjarni a line when he's in.
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09:43:25 <SandMouse> Ah! That explains it.
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09:57:00 <iAN_> what is/are "dyes" dict.leo.org doesn't know it
09:58:36 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13371 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r4510 ... r12924): Engine array size is not related to the ID used when setting a vehicle's name (it is vehicle type specific). Instead just test for a generic string.
09:58:38 <iAN_> well.. "dye" is known by dict.leo.org too
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10:15:36 <dih> confuddled (mix of confused and muddled)
10:15:49 <LA> how do I specify how many articulated parts will there be in a tram
10:16:21 * LA is learnign to make tram grfs
10:16:33 <peter1138> you use the callback
10:16:45 <peter1138> so you need to know action 3 2 1 chains
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10:17:49 <LA> I just decoded /commented a big part of generic trams grf
10:18:03 <LA> but one action0 for 3wagon tram
10:18:36 <LA> 10 * 58 00 01 16 01 40 00 78 4E 02 20 03 13 04 16 06 07 07 05 08 90 09 7E 0A 48 4C 00 00 0F 20 10 02 11
10:18:37 <LA> 71 0E FF 1C 03 17 00 12 49 16 00 00 00 00 1A 00 1B 00 1D 02 00 1E 88 01 15 24 <--- sometin like tis
10:18:44 <LA> and you say it was useless? :
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10:22:01 <peter1138> that's not decoding
10:22:13 <peter1138> nor is it commenting
10:23:02 <peter1138> i see. do you want a medal?
10:23:06 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13372 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Cleanup: Excessive whitespace
10:23:28 <LA> no, I want to see how I can define the number of wagons
10:23:39 <LA> that action0 didn't help me much
10:23:53 <peter1138> as you need to use the callback
10:23:57 <egladil> huh? what am i you say?
10:26:41 <LA> but that is for trains not trams :S
10:27:51 <LA> ok.. things would be much simpler if I understood what a callback is
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10:32:54 <peter1138> have a look at the articulated trams then
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10:34:59 <peter1138> ^ for some documented trams
10:37:37 <LA> aaaaaaaaaaa.... Why haven't I seen that before? :( :P
10:41:18 <peter1138> cos i only just put it there
10:52:27 <SandMouse> If I manage to compile it correctly I'll dump it on the forum, ok!
10:59:43 <eQualizer> If I choose to play scenario, difficulty setting is preset?
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11:07:12 <eQualizer> But I still don't understand. I start playing this scenario, I select hard difficult, but in the game, it's easy for some reason.
11:08:28 <LA> peter1138: Sorry for annoying you again...
11:08:37 <LA> // 10 = Articulated parts (1)
11:08:38 <LA> 45 * 14 02 01 10 81 10 00 FF 01 ENGINE_ID FF 01 01 FF FF
11:08:47 <LA> what there shows that it's only 1
11:10:23 <peter1138> you need to adjust the range
11:10:47 <LA> so if it is 01 02 for example?
11:11:39 <LA> this is the same line in generic trams...
11:11:41 <LA> 185 * 14 02 01 01 81 10 00 FF 01 41 80 01 02 FF 80
11:11:55 <peter1138> then gives you 2 extra parts, so it's 3 parts in total
11:12:48 <LA> and the as ff ff / ff 80 means?
11:13:36 <peter1138> that returns FF, which means "stop"
11:14:16 <peter1138> which you'd know if you read the callback documentation
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11:15:36 <LA> sorry.. it's just that callbacks are so completely different from other var2 I've done
11:16:59 <peter1138> they're totally the same as every other varaction2 chain
11:18:02 <LA> I probably have sth else missing somewhere
11:18:09 <LA> but renum doesn't complain
11:19:13 <LA> misc flag was not set.. now trying
11:19:29 <peter1138> that doesn't affect articulation
11:20:24 <peter1138> unless you mean the callback mask
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11:24:11 <LA> thank you for your help peter1138
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11:39:31 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13373 /trunk/src/ (saveload.cpp subsidy_gui.cpp): -Fix (r10210): loading of very old savegames was broken
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12:11:40 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13374 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r13364): Some common compilers do not yet support 9 year old specifications.
12:12:19 <Gekz> peter1138: which are these "some"
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13:19:24 <iAN_> I play with all ECS vectors. my car-factory runs on "very low" even that it has max steel and max glass. Although it has _no_ dyes it doe not accept it at all
13:33:42 <dih> post your questions in the forums
13:33:56 <dih> where it say "do you have trouble with ecs vetcotrs?" or something like that
13:35:20 <glx> iAN_: we are not in charge of grfs bug
13:35:24 <dih> no - i was hoping someone would play a game with me
13:35:39 <dih> but da bot aint friendly enough
13:35:40 <LA> and now you can't kick me from anywhere :P
13:36:10 <dih> you still wanna play wwottdgd right? :-P
13:36:39 <LA> some weird openttd geeks just gathering on some freaky server
13:39:07 <Ammler> LA just saw your post in tt-froums, had to look 2 times :-)
13:39:34 <LA> those chimearas are RVs there
13:39:58 <Ammler> yeah, you said it already in the post...
13:39:59 <LA> thanks to peter113 who helped me coding
13:40:23 <SmatZ> hehe, whouldn't be changing train station GRF to look like road stop easier?
13:40:52 <LA> and changing chimeara to run on normal tracks
13:40:56 <peter1138> articulated chimaera!
13:41:20 <SmatZ> so they are two road vehicles?
13:41:26 <Ammler> but you can't build articulated rvs self, choosing different waggons?
13:41:43 <LA> well.. you can refit them..
13:41:52 <peter1138> LA... that is sick :D
13:41:55 <LA> And I can add parameters how long they'll be
13:42:20 <dih> LA: you could make a 5 tile long articulated tram :-P
13:42:22 <Ammler> but then all rvs needs to be same length
13:42:51 <SmatZ> let it run anound a block, it will crash/block itself ;)
13:43:24 <LA> Ammler: I could make many different rvs
13:43:29 <Ammler> the parameter setting will influence the whole type, I guess.
13:43:43 <LA> but if I have two different IDs or more
13:43:53 <LA> the main problem is speed though
13:44:06 <peter1138> Ammler: there are in theory 128 parameters per GRF
13:44:51 <Ammler> can't you refit to different lengths?
13:45:22 <LA> peter1138: But openttd doesn't allow giving them so much.. Atleast via gui
13:45:57 <LA> some sort of character limit I guess
13:47:13 <iAN_> okay. posted a bug-report and after it was closed (invalid) I posted the savegame into the TT-forum
13:47:18 <Belugas> a limit??? Let's BREAK IT!
13:47:38 <Belugas> ho... no... we have to ask every so-called-coders on ttdpatch if we can :P
13:47:45 <SmatZ> iAN_: ask to reopen that bugreport once it is proven it is OTTD bug, we can't help if it is not
13:47:50 <Belugas> grf coders... that is
13:48:09 <SmatZ> [15:47:19] <Belugas> a limit??? Let's BREAK IT! <--- lol, you are like people @ tt-forums :)
13:48:12 <glx> and ECS vectors are known to be WIP
13:48:27 <iAN_> well.. I dowloaded ottd and it seems buggy. I'm not familiar nor skilled how to prove that it is the fault of ottd
13:48:46 <LA> you have downloaded ecs vectors and they seem buggy
13:49:04 <iAN_> So. ECS vectors are not part of ottd?
13:49:20 <iAN_> means they would work in, lets say ttdpatch, too?
13:49:33 <Belugas> iAN_, flyspay is there to deal with bugs in the program itself. Since your report is not one that fit in the category, it has to be closed. I'm sorry for the time you've spent on it, but it was really not the best place for that
13:50:08 <Belugas> SmatZ, yeah, i think i have been contaminated ;)
13:50:11 <Ammler> you can copy&paste it to tt-forums :-)
13:50:15 <iAN_> I'm not upset/angry that it was closed. I just want to know, whom to report that "my vehicle factory" does not work as expected
13:50:32 <LA> me and dih gave you the link
13:50:43 <glx> report it to George in the ECS problems post
13:51:13 <LA> iook.. now wait until some wise guy answers
13:51:58 <LA> it could take more that 5 minutes just for you to know
13:52:44 <iAN_> another thingy. when the trains go arround and don't stick to their schedules.. is that part of ottd? or does this belong to the tt-forum too?
13:53:16 <LA> that is prolly a problem of malfunctioning junctions
13:53:39 <iAN_> It occurs everytime they go into a depot for servicing
13:53:41 <Touqen> I'm pretty sure timetabling is a ottd only feature.
13:53:48 <Touqen> iAN_: Your schedules are too tight.
13:53:56 <Touqen> You should add in some wiggle room so they can recover.
13:54:12 <LA> depending if he means schedules as timetables or as orders
13:54:36 <LA> anyway, I'll be back later
13:54:36 <iAN_> Touqen: I think I never used the "timetable" and my trains just have two orders. Go to A and full load, then go to B then repeat
13:55:03 <Ammler> iAN_: just expand your station
13:55:05 <Touqen> Well, I place schedules as being synonymous with timetable.
13:55:07 <Maedhros> timetables and full load don't really go together
13:55:22 <LA> iAN_: You have to make sure that the train is able to continue to it's destination form the depot
13:55:24 <Ammler> and your ECS Problem is fixed, not every part of the factory accept everything
13:55:37 <LA> or it will not find path and will circle around in some x places
13:55:52 <iAN_> sometimes they just leave the station (after waiting to get 100%) drive into a depot, go back to the station where they just waited to be full loaded, and then leave for the dropoff station. IMHO they should visit the dropoff right after depot, not driving back where they came from first
13:56:39 <LA> take it as this: the drivers changed and the second driver didn't know where should he go
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13:57:20 <LA> iAN_: Just make sure that the station coverage is on and then cover the whole factory with it :P
13:57:40 <Ammler> if you expand your station nearer to the factory, it will accept dys
14:00:01 <Ammler> if you play with ECS, I recommend to use TTRS, for better support...
14:02:02 <Ammler> hmm the pack is outdated, we should update it
14:02:53 <peter1138> 'total town renewal set'
14:03:02 <LA> Ammler: Then let it be the last update before wwottdgd
14:03:14 <iAN_> aaah.. I wondered where to deliver cars and gasoline
14:03:50 <Ammler> LA, that's for sure :-)
14:04:37 <LA> World Wide OpenTTD Game Day
14:05:05 <dih> originized as a cooperation of #openttdcoop and openttdFairPlay
14:05:22 <dih> i was not related to #openttdcoop at that time
14:05:27 <Ammler> with friendly hacks from #openttd devs
14:05:37 <LA> well.. but that was wwottdgd1
14:05:38 <dih> in fact, started off with a chat Ammler and I had
14:06:08 <LA> I think you should make the general thread there
14:06:29 <LA> to announce the upcoming event whenever it is
14:07:01 <Ammler> we need a "killer" patch/hack
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14:07:20 <Belugas> [10:03] <Ammler> with friendly hacks from #openttd devs <--- tut tut tut... retired dev
14:07:55 <dih> Belugas: not at that time :-P
14:08:05 <dragonhorseboy> how often have any of you heard of a wagon (even ex-oldboxcar or so) being converted to act as a converter car with one coupler type on one end and another on other end?
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14:08:35 <dih> dragonhorseboy: never, why?
14:08:51 <LA> If I knew what you talked about or understood, then I think I'd heard of it :P
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14:09:08 <iAN_> question: On a map (512x512) using all ECS and TTRS .. what should I do first? Without ECS I would go for coal->powerplant. but now?
14:09:39 <dih> search for ecs topic subjects
14:09:42 <iAN_> dih: and your opinion is which?
14:10:02 <dragonhorseboy> dih just wondering about it .. could be interesting if one was used to allow historic trainsets to run in another country (can we say buffer&chain foreign cars to an usa knuckle diesel locomotive?)
14:10:04 <Belugas> NEVAR trust trhe opinion of a system admin!
14:10:50 <Belugas> noting against you ;) i
14:11:00 <Ammler> iAN_: did you create a new game?
14:11:08 <Belugas> just in a facetious mood, due to a tedious job
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14:11:19 <Ammler> else you should check, if the cargo have payments
14:11:38 <Ammler> then just use the cargo type, which HAS payment.
14:11:50 <SandMouse> Can I drop a question about compiling?
14:12:19 <iAN_> Ammler: You mean, some of my (available) cargos will not be paid for?
14:12:32 <Ammler> if you added the GRF after start
14:12:35 <dih> iAN_: check wiki.openttd.org :-)
14:12:47 <Belugas> SandMouse, why do you ask?
14:12:50 <dih> then you can find out how to check the payment rates :-P
14:13:18 <iAN_> ok, added (all) grfs, applied, quit, restarted, checked grf settings, created new game
14:13:30 <dih> SandMouse: only one question per day allowed here
14:13:31 <Belugas> iAN_, dih has a point. Reading the wiki might give you even more answers that you have questions :)
14:13:31 <SandMouse> My source compiles fine, except it does not see a revision number. (checking revision... no detection)
14:13:41 <dih> yes you can ask a question, but now you have to wait until tomorrow
14:13:57 <Belugas> SandMouse: doyou have svn or tortoise installed?
14:14:07 <glx> SandMouse: how did you get the sources?
14:14:21 <SandMouse> I downloaded the source from openttd.org
14:14:59 <glx> version detection works only with svn, git or mercurial
14:15:08 <SandMouse> I need the 'r' number in, in order to play online, else the game won't let me select a server.
14:15:56 <dih> ./configure --revision=r1
14:16:23 <planetmaker> SandMouse: get the svn client from the subversion page --- or follow dih's advice (not recommended) :P
14:16:56 <SandMouse> Thanks guys. Let me try your suggestions.
14:21:38 * SandMouse is running OpenTTD r13346 on Mac OS 10.5.3. online. Thank you for helping me!
14:22:50 <dih> SandMouse: one other hint
14:22:55 <dih> no need to ask if you may ask!
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14:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln: that world would never have worked...
14:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln: did you notice the overuse of the word "demilitarized"?
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14:44:08 <iAN_> ok. new question: the refrigerated hopper can be refit to paper(refrigerated), fruit(refrigerated) and fish(refrigerated)
14:44:21 <iAN_> how can I transport food(refrigerated)?
14:45:09 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: Canada is USA in that map
14:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> paper? you probably have an incompatible mix of grfs
14:45:40 <dih> Gekz: hehe, that'll piss 'em off :-D
14:46:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gekz: yeah, the USA assume they can just go along and "unify" countries which did not even take part in the war
14:47:01 <Gekz> British Commonwealth of Nations
14:47:07 <Gekz> Australia was independant after 1901
14:47:12 <Gekz> and NZ before that I think
14:47:25 <glx> LA: your "road->rail" screenshot is nice :)
14:47:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> what is your opinion of "independent"?
14:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> the queen of britain is still the head of state in australia
14:47:49 <Gekz> It wont fit on one line.
14:47:51 <dih> glx: where is that screeny
14:47:54 <Gekz> but lets not get into that
14:48:01 <Gekz> we aren't owned by Britain
14:48:14 <Gekz> next referendum and we're a republic
14:48:34 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: the Queen of England is the figurative head of state
14:48:42 <Gekz> she has no power whatsoever due to the constitution
14:48:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is not the point ;)
14:49:04 <Gekz> so her head is on the back of a coin
14:49:12 <Gekz> gives you something to look at when shes dead
14:49:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> the head of state in germany is the president, but he also has no power whatsoever
14:49:51 <Gekz> I quite like having a Queen as a powerless figurehead
14:49:56 <Gekz> it keeps the parliament in line
14:50:05 <Gekz> none of them are at the top :P
14:50:14 <peter1138> is that not some power?
14:50:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> the point is, "independent" is a different thing
14:50:45 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: in the eyes of law.
14:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> what you describe is more like "autonomic"
14:50:53 <Gekz> we aren't a colony of the UK
14:51:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> but it did not say "colony"
14:51:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> it said "commonwealth"
14:51:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> and that is still the case
14:52:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> have you any knowledge of history? you sound like an american...
14:53:23 <Maedhros> umm, surely Australia *is* part of the Commonwealth?
14:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> after the desaster with the united states, the general course of the british empire was generally: conlony -> dominion -> commonwealth
14:53:42 <Gekz> Maedhros: yes, but it's simply "The Commonwealth"
14:53:53 <Gekz> it's not "The British Commonwealth"
14:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> each such word can be prefixed by "british"
14:54:26 <Gekz> and rofl, at the bottom of that map "Hebrewland"
14:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> Gekz: well, that basically qualifies under the category of "working title"
14:55:42 <Belugas> as long as the queen is on coins, i think we're still on "Commonwealth", whatever that word still means, apart not paying duties when receiving stuff from ebay :D
14:56:13 <Gekz> there's a few upsides of being in the Commonwealth
14:56:23 <Gekz> Commonwealth passports, Commonwealth games
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15:02:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> luckily, the USA learned that a suppressed and humiliated germany was the entire cause of the 2nd world war, and wanted to create a strong germany to not repeat that mistake
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16:09:50 <Ammler> patch request: option to skip some Action7 ;-)
16:11:06 <LA> Ammler: There was some basehead who provided already crack to it.. Wasn't very welcomed
16:11:10 <Maedhros> well that's an easy one. no
16:12:08 <Ammler> LA, that's why I ask for a patch, changing grf isn't nice, indeed.
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16:13:39 <Rubidium> what about loading some arbitrary binary data, then changing some bits/bytes in it before passing it to an executer?
16:13:40 <Ammler> and OzTransLtd didn't mention it in the changelog, he changed that hidden...
16:14:29 <Rubidium> cause as far as I can tell OzTransLtd is not against said method of getting non-working stuff working
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16:15:25 <Rubidium> *or* OzTransLtd is against TTDP
16:15:56 <Ammler> well, the problem is that some people using those feature complaind to the grf author instead here
16:17:00 <Ammler> that feature is still experimental and grf authors shouldn't code againt it yet.
16:17:19 <Ammler> they should wait until it's available in a stable release
16:17:36 <Rubidium> OzTransLtd uses his 'powers' to force other people to change stuff
16:17:55 <Ammler> he uses power to force other people to think like him
16:18:17 * LA starts callin yorick eigenaar from now on
16:19:00 <Ammler> I fear, dbset 0.9 will also have those ugly hack
16:19:03 <Belugas> I am publically claiming that all canadians do not have the same mentality the OzTransLtd shows
16:19:24 <Ammler> oztransltd is german, isn't
16:19:42 <Ammler> why do I think, all people are germans :-)
16:23:01 <Belugas> and on second though... i don't care about Oz and all that bullshit...
16:23:28 <Belugas> there are other grf coders (real ones) that are way more enjoyable (and knowledgable) than him
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16:24:16 <Ammler> oh, Oz is another person, imo :-)
16:25:04 <peter1138> Ammler: "isn't he" not "isnt'"
16:25:29 <Ammler> but he speaks german quite well
16:27:21 <Belugas> he could dance on his head while singing the blues that it would not matter
16:29:28 <Ammler> peter1138: oh, you just corrected me, thanks :-)
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16:34:03 <Ammler> well, I post a bugreport
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16:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> what "hack" are people talking about?
16:53:44 <Ammler> he just checked if the patch setting is enabled, not if there are really other sets loaded...
16:54:12 <Ammler> thats why I call it "hack"
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16:54:59 <Belugas> i call that terrorism
16:56:15 <Ammler> you might still want to load multiple road sets or what ever...
16:57:02 <Belugas> you know what I have in my head? The strange idea of rejecting all canadian sets from loading. Every one of them, even earlier versions.
16:57:40 <Ammler> it _is_ the best eyecandy set available atm...
16:58:18 <Ammler> really like those reverse features
16:58:50 <Belugas> I concede him the right to report any bugs he wants, i concede him the right to block the grf ever to load. I deny him the right to put some kind of a terrorism plot to make HIS stuff the way he wants it to be. that is bad and counter productive
16:58:56 <Ammler> I thought, since you made those feature working in ottd, you and OzTransLtd are friends
16:59:16 <Belugas> Ammler, you are not friend with someone who stabs you in the back TWICE
17:00:09 <Belugas> I though too he would come to us and tell about his problems. no.. he just pull the plug off...
17:00:20 <Belugas> it worked the last time...
17:00:21 <glx> we added features when he used the right way to ask
17:01:04 <glx> even if we needed to "hack" its grf to test the features ;)
17:01:12 <glx> as he don't provide test cases
17:01:38 <glx> (it was not a direct hack but ottd lying)
17:01:42 <Ammler> well, I can't include hacked GRFs in the coop pack
17:02:01 <Belugas> indeed, so don't use his e version
17:03:14 <Ammler> well, I will hope, he releases fast a "f"
17:03:18 <Belugas> Better than that... boycott the Canadian Set at all!
17:03:59 <Ammler> that wouldn't be fair to the graphics people
17:04:07 <Ammler> or do they all agree to OzTrans?
17:07:26 <Belugas> I know of patch devs that are not happy with the situation either
17:14:16 <peter1138> coo, a 0 in your ip address
17:14:48 * Prof_Frink saw someone with beef in their ipv6 address
17:15:16 <peter1138> feh, easy with ipv6
17:15:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have seen that, too
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17:15:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> probably dead:beef
17:17:32 <Prof_Frink> shirley 9 is more like g than 6
17:17:47 <peter1138> i failed, of course
17:18:33 <Touqen> 3648008 turned upside down :D
17:18:35 <Prof_Frink> You, of course, just want an IPv6 ending with :1138
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17:46:17 <DorpsGek> Ammler: I have not seen Drakoon.
17:46:35 <DorpsGek> Ammler: Draakon was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 23 hours, 6 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <Draakon> *runs*
17:49:05 <Ammler> well, this guy is a little bit annoying in the canset thread.
17:53:01 <peter1138> and also, don't post download links
17:57:45 <nicfer> one question, is possible to use two different NoAIs simultaneously?
17:58:26 <glx> but not from command line
18:01:38 <nicfer> so, if I enable two or more of them, when an AI tries to join, it will be selected randomly from the active ones right?
18:02:42 <Ammler> peter1138: sorry, I liked to link to thread, which contains those links
18:04:29 <glx> nicfer: yes, unless you started openttd with -a
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18:25:56 <nicfer> I have two problems with NoAI: one, it slows down a quite the game, two, one of the AIs get stuck
18:27:29 <Rubidium> nicfer: so you have two problems with an AI
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18:27:41 <Rubidium> cause NoAI doesn't make AIs stuck
18:27:52 <nicfer> I have two NoAIs active
18:28:04 <Rubidium> and slowness is more about writing efficient AIs than about the API being slow
18:34:21 <nicfer> other AI trouble, it build an uncomplete track or deleted it
18:34:59 <eQualizer> You wouldn't know why come generic tramset doesn't seem to work on subarctic scenario? I just don't get any new trams, and all the old ones just disapper from the new vehicles list.
18:35:48 <nicfer> track of road*, it is the convoyAI
18:35:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> eQualizer: adding a vehicle set to an existing game may have side effects
18:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> eQualizer: try "resetengines" on the console
18:36:12 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13375 /trunk/ (22 files in 3 dirs): -Add: logging of actions that could possibly cause desyncs and crashes to simplify debugging. See readme.txt for details
18:36:19 <Belugas> further on, could it be that trams are not meant to be in subtropic?
18:36:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> arctic, not tropic :)
18:37:40 <eQualizer> Eddi|zuHause3: Thanks, resetengines did help.
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21:25:06 <Chaladirnik> hi been away from the game for almost a year... did the ai improve to some extent?
21:26:05 <Touqen> It actually got dumber.
21:26:12 <Touqen> They've dubbed it GWBushAI
21:26:28 <Rubidium> it didn't get dumber
21:26:33 <Touqen> It ruins the game world economy.
21:26:39 <Rubidium> it's just the rest of the OTTD world that got smarter
21:26:42 <Touqen> The price of oil goes through the roof.
21:27:43 <Chaladirnik> well thats too bad but thx anyway
21:27:55 <Touqen> Chaladirnik: You can play multiplayer.
21:28:04 <Rubidium> there's a project to make a (set of) better AIs, but that's not going to be in a stable release any time 'soon'
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21:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> :o ... he quit without his quitmessage!
21:50:35 <Touqen> something something something necrophilia something
21:53:49 <Sacro> it's a wonderful story with a small section about necrophilia?
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22:27:18 <sanity> Hai, I'm trying to start an dedicated OpenTTD server, but got some problem. I've opened ports but the server seem not to connect with the master server. It's just "advertising" 4times in a row and nothing happens
22:28:14 <glx> seems the ports are not open correctly
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22:29:31 <sanity> Hmm, I can find it on the "Internet" list in openttd, but not on openttd.org/servers.php
22:31:24 <SpComb> sanity: have you added it manually with "Add server"?
22:31:33 <SpComb> have you opened the UDP port as well?
22:32:11 <SpComb> the in-game server list
22:32:26 <SpComb> if you add it in there, it sticks around on the server list just like the ones fetched from the master server
22:34:54 <SpComb> is this nat port forwarding or a direct firewall?
22:36:44 <sanity> Uhm, i dunno. Just port forwarded in both my FON-router (WLAN) and my wired router
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22:37:27 <SpComb> do you forward the same port as what openttd is running on?
22:37:53 <SpComb> iirc, if you run openttd on port 3979, you need to also forward port 3979
22:38:57 <SpComb> NAT may also mangle the source port of your UDP packets
22:39:06 <SpComb> I'm trying to recall how the master server code works
22:41:29 <SpComb> if OpenTTD is running behind a NAT and sends a packet to the ms from port x, then it may well arrive at the ms with a source port of y
22:41:53 <glx> blame the router for that
22:42:00 <Rubidium> SpComb: that doesn't cause trouble
22:42:03 <SpComb> I presume this is going to happen with a 100% probability if you have two source IP addresses behind the NAT sending packets to the same destination port from the same source port
22:42:15 <SpComb> Rubidium: the masterserver looks up response packets with both ip and port
22:42:45 <Rubidium> the client sends the port that OpenTTD is listening on in an advertise message to the ms
22:43:08 <SpComb> yes, the local source port as behind the nat
22:43:21 <SpComb> the ms sends a UDP packet to port x, and then gets a reply from port y
22:43:22 <Rubidium> the ms then tries to connect to the IP of the received packet (IP might be mangled by NATs) at the IP given in the packet
22:44:09 <SpComb> UDP NAT is more complicated than that
22:44:10 <Rubidium> if that succeeds the ms gets a reply from the server and replies back to the server over the port the advertise packet was send
22:44:35 <Rubidium> this works because of the NAT that remembers that the reply packet needs to be relayed to somewhere
22:44:54 <SpComb> that's the ms-advertise response packet which is irrelevant in this case
22:45:19 <sanity> Btw, could someone just check if you can find a server namned "My Tie Is F*ucked" in the Internet-list in OpenTTD?
22:45:24 <SpComb> my port-x-port-y example is actually wrong, because this is unsolicated udp "requests" sent to the NAT device, which aren't associated with packets sent out
22:45:29 <sanity> In that case everything is just fine
22:45:39 <Rubidium> sanity: if it is in servers.openttd.org it is, otherwise it isn't
22:46:25 <Rubidium> as it isn't at servers.openttd.org it isn't in the serverlist at clients
22:46:26 <glx> sanity: but if you give ip and port I can try to see it "manually"
22:48:51 <glx> clearly a forwarding/firewall problem
22:50:12 <SpComb> double NAT is probably your issue
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23:59:13 <Belugas> MKay?? is it a okay but not as positive as a okay since it's a letter minus one? M->O ?
continue to next day ⏵
