IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-05-25
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01:05:46 <break19> anyone have suggestions/ideas for a relative noob to signals? I can do most things ok, but I sometimes have problems with trains wanting to go the wrong way on my double-track lines...
01:06:50 <break19> I have 5 or 6 cities linked with a long double-track, and each city then branches off.. trains run fine until they hit a depot, and constantly want to go out the wrong way..
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02:01:14 <imachine> I have some issues with 0.60
02:01:46 <imachine> running on Linux, timidity++ installed, gm files both in ~/.openttd/gm and in /usr/share/openttd/gm/ and in /usr/share/openttd/data/gm
02:02:03 <imachine> If I play them with timidity manually, they work great.
02:02:23 <imachine> there is no issue with sound blocking because I can play timidity files and run openttd and it works good.
02:02:33 <imachine> any suggestions? it worked on older versions of openttd.
02:02:37 <imachine> I'm running ArchLinux.
02:03:07 <imachine> I've read here that the way I used to play music is outdated now.
02:03:13 <imachine> could someone update the info?
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02:07:18 <Sacro> imachine: there isn't an 0.60
02:07:35 <Sacro> imachine: ArchLinux you say?
02:08:21 <Sacro> hm, well seeing as i wrote the ArchLinux openttd PKGBUILDs i should maybe know what to do...
02:08:55 <imachine> Sacro, yes, I meant 0.6.0
02:09:10 <Sacro> i'm not sure if you need to run the timidity daemon
02:09:13 <imachine> and I installed from binary
02:09:26 <imachine> I didn't have to run it as a daemon before (that is before 0.6.0)
02:09:37 <imachine> community/openttd 0.6.0-3
02:09:58 <Sacro> i don't recall making any changes
02:10:07 <imachine> I can quickly pull it from abs
02:10:17 <imachine> maybe they removed midi support? is that possibe?
02:11:08 <Sacro> -3 is for the icon path
02:11:20 <imachine> well I'm getting it..
02:11:25 <Sacro> did you install freepats?
02:11:38 <Sacro> but then if you have it working from timidity, then it's found something
02:12:00 <glx> did you press "play" in music player?
02:12:02 <imachine> yeah, timidity itself works
02:12:07 <imachine> glx, d'oh yes ofcourse ;]
02:12:15 <imachine> it just keeps on spinning through the tracks like mad
02:12:23 <Sacro> it doesn't find the files then i think
02:12:36 <Sacro> did you put the files in /usr/share/openttd/gm/ ?
02:12:37 <imachine> at least they're where I said they are
02:12:41 <imachine> I have some symlink magic there
02:12:53 <imachine> (/usr/share/openttd/gm is a symlink to /usr/share/openttd/data/gm
02:13:01 <imachine> but that shouldn't be a problem huh ?
02:13:12 <Sacro> what about permissions?
02:13:21 <imachine> glx, no reason really
02:13:25 <Sacro> well if you can play em in timidity as your user
02:13:50 <Sacro> but why is a midi executable
02:13:54 <imachine> well I don't need to open them
02:14:17 <imachine> if i choose 'timidity /usr/share/openttd/gm/file.gm' it plays
02:14:25 <imachine> I have soundfonts etc.
02:14:26 <Sacro> right, not running the alsa daemon here
02:14:40 <Sacro> actually. in your config
02:15:04 <Sacro> what do you have for extmidi =
02:15:15 <imachine> (I tried /usr/bin/timidity)
02:15:23 <Sacro> well it should be in your path
02:15:30 <imachine> (and /usr/bin/timidity -Ai -Os)
02:15:32 <Sacro> glx: is there a debug mode?
02:15:45 <Gekz_> did you check for midi support at compile time
02:15:54 <imachine> Gekz_, no I don't think so.
02:16:11 <Gekz_> Sacro: you said yourself you dont remember modifying it
02:16:20 <Gekz_> doesnt mean someone else didnt
02:16:26 <imachine> glx, -d misc shows nothing.
02:16:30 <Sacro> ./configure --install-dir=$startdir/pkg/ --prefix-dir=/usr --binary-dir=/bin --data-dir=/share/openttd --icon-dir=/share/pixmaps --personal-dir=.openttd || return 1
02:16:30 <glx> hmm -d driver9 may show interestng stuff
02:16:50 <Gekz_> Sacro: whats teh BUILDDEPS?
02:17:10 <Gekz_> because you didnt specify the midi switch
02:17:13 <imachine> dbg: [driver] Successfully probed music driver 'extmidi'
02:17:17 <imachine> dbg: [driver] extmidi: set volume not implemented
02:17:22 <Gekz_> meaning if it doesnt find the build dependency then you're screewed.
02:17:23 <imachine> glx, that's about all
02:17:30 <Sacro> depends=(libpng sdl gcc-libs fontconfig)
02:17:42 <Gekz_> timidity should be there if you want midi, no?
02:17:58 <glx> no it's an external player
02:18:02 <imachine> but not in prev versions
02:18:03 <Sacro> so we can assume the PKGBUILD and binary work fine
02:18:14 <Sacro> so it must be imachine's setup
02:18:59 <imachine> skipping the symlinks is the same
02:19:31 <Sacro> i don't recall having to do anything else
02:19:56 <imachine> I even tried moving the config
02:20:29 <glx> are you sure it uses the right cfg?
02:20:46 <Sacro> glx: yes, it uses .openttd/openttd.cfg
02:20:53 <break19> anyone familiar with the OSX version? I don't seem to -have- a .cfg file where I can enable 32bit gfx?
02:20:55 <imachine> i have no other configs
02:21:10 <imachine> if it's any difference..
02:21:23 <imachine> well... timidity plays
02:21:26 <glx> break19: you started the game once?
02:21:27 <imachine> if i run it manually
02:21:33 <imachine> so it ought'n be a diffrence
02:21:40 <break19> glx: more than once. :)
02:21:41 <imachine> oepnttd just calls timidity doesn't it
02:21:54 <Sacro> where are all the community pkgbuilds
02:22:01 <glx> break19: try to check the readme
02:22:01 <Sacro> and nobody has updated the link on au
02:22:17 <imachine> just pull it with 'abs community'
02:22:20 <glx> I'm sure there is some info about where it should be
02:22:26 <imachine> then cd /var/abs/community/games/openttd
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02:23:30 <glx> break19: ~/Documents/OpenTTD
02:23:51 <break19> glx: found it, thanks
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02:24:09 <break19> i thought I'd looked there.. twice.. but I guess I hadnt. lol
02:25:45 <Sacro> imachine: not suere what else to suggest :(
02:26:58 <glx> Sacro: it's .ORG not .COM
02:27:41 <Sacro> as you'll find openttd.com works
02:28:01 <glx> I know .com works, but the official is .org
02:28:12 <Sacro> glx: i'll post it as a bug, get it updated...
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02:31:37 <imachine> what else can I check with debug ?
02:32:25 <imachine> the music is there 100%
02:32:29 <imachine> and timitidy works 100%
02:33:02 <imachine> dbg: [driver] extmidi: set volume not implemented
02:33:06 <imachine> could this be causing troubles?
02:33:23 <imachine> could it be that the device is blocked?
02:33:32 <imachine> but I'd like to beat this
02:34:06 <glx> does it work with -snull ?
02:35:01 <imachine> so it's blocking device huh ?
02:35:17 <glx> looks like it as -snull disable sound
02:35:31 <imachine> also, I've enabled timidity alsa daemon
02:35:44 <imachine> but that doesn't make a difference ;)
02:36:08 <glx> I can't help more as I'm not a linux user
02:36:10 <imachine> well that's just silly! because if I play timidity in the background, then run openttd - I have both midi and sounds working :)
02:36:29 <glx> linux and sound devices :)
02:36:42 <imachine> ok np done and sorted
02:36:50 <imachine> export SDL_AUDIODRIVER="alsa"
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02:37:04 <glx> I'm sure it's on the wiki
02:37:16 <imachine> hmm. haven't found it.
02:39:02 <glx> hmm indeed it's not on wiki, but I'm sure I already saw this solution somewhere
02:40:35 <imachine> I just pasted it on the forums
02:40:42 <imachine> maybe someone else will find it useful
02:40:55 <imachine> thanks for the chats ;]
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09:40:57 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13240 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp train_gui.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_func.h): -Codechange: More const-ness for GUI code.
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09:54:48 <Bjarni> damn you are slow today :P
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10:06:36 <Bjarni> Mchl: we have an issue with Sacro. He still considers this time of the day as morning
10:07:02 <Bjarni> maybe we should build a robot that invades his room at 8 O'clock and tell him that the sun is on the sky
10:10:12 <Mchl> as long as it is his room and not mine, I'll go for it
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10:10:48 <Mchl> we need special detector, to detect whose room it is
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10:11:30 <Mchl> and radio link to atomic clock, so that the robot knows what time it is exactly
10:11:35 <Bjarni> as it is accurate enough not to pick the wrong country
10:11:48 <Mchl> (I just love overkill solutions)
10:12:16 <Bjarni> actually we should use as little hardware as possible
10:12:37 <Mchl> minimalism is not fun :P
10:12:49 <Bjarni> reducing the amount of hardware that can fail will make it more reliable
10:13:08 <Bjarni> and we need to make it as reliable as possible to ensure that we reach the wanted result
10:13:33 <Mchl> and possibly make it cheaper, look better, weigh less... all that engineering talk...
10:14:42 <Bjarni> we need to make it as cheap as possible
10:14:55 <Bjarni> preferable built out of discarded hardware so it's for free
10:14:58 <Mchl> ok... so what way of room-intrusion do you propose?
10:16:03 <Bjarni> the question is if we can get a drill that's big enough
10:16:14 <Bjarni> we should add a wire detector as well
10:16:15 <Mchl> how about we use shaped explosive charges :D
10:16:20 <Bjarni> we need to take the fuse in the process
10:18:03 <Mchl> what kind of building do you live in Sacro?
10:18:38 <Mchl> is he around at all or still asleep?
10:18:59 <DorpsGek> Mchl: Sacro was last seen in #openttd 23 minutes and 56 seconds ago: <Sacro> this is early
10:19:04 <Bjarni> it would be so like him to fall asleep again
10:19:29 <Bjarni> we can't aim this at a specific building
10:19:53 <Bjarni> maybe he fails to pay rent
10:20:22 <Bjarni> for all we know it's dead due to unpaid bills
10:20:40 <Bjarni> we should control his computer
10:21:06 <Mchl> let us plant a troian horse, that will emit high pitched sound from his PC, that our robot can aim for
10:21:06 <Bjarni> since he can't turn it off
10:21:14 <Bjarni> it would be against his beliefs
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11:16:05 <dvdb> is it possible (with a grf or like that) to build parallel rail ways on roads?
11:18:43 <Rubidium> how standard... ``hello, this is my question but I've got no time to explain what I mean''
11:19:22 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13241 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: Simplify CmdDepotSellAllVehicles() a bit
11:20:12 <Gekz> dvdb: not possible afaik
11:20:24 <Gekz> I've never even seen that in real life
11:20:45 <Mchl> there was a topic about it on forums
11:20:54 <Mchl> with some real life pictures
11:21:01 <Rubidium> it's not going to happen any time soon, if at all, though
11:21:24 <Gekz> kinda renders the road pointless
11:21:38 <dvdb> Gekz: in Chur (Switzerland) the Raethian Railways drive on roads.
11:21:54 <hylje> not quite trams but not quite heavy rail either
11:22:50 <dvdb> and it is not a tram, it is a train.
11:23:49 <Gekz> now I want to visit Switzerland even more
11:24:04 <Gekz> dvdb: the road is wide though
11:25:25 <dvdb> other question: how can i change the speed of a train?
11:26:36 <dvdb> is there a parameter in a file to change?
11:27:55 <Alberth> dvdb: There are a few configure patches settings that affect train speed
11:29:33 <Alberth> Under the 'vehicles' tab, 'realistic acceleration', 'enable speed limit wagons', and 'weight multiplier for freight'
11:29:54 <Alberth> Otherwise, you'll have to make a GRF file.
11:30:21 <Alberth> (or find one with settings that you like :) )
11:31:53 <Gekz> Australia is the 6th largest country in the world
11:32:52 <Gekz> you can fit 186.35133 Switzerlands in Australia
11:33:00 <Gekz> and they have about a third of our population lol
11:33:26 <dvdb> Gekz: I just realised that Switzerland has the best railway system :P
11:38:06 <dvdb> does anybody know something about newgrf files of swiss trains?
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11:48:28 <Gekz> dvdb: look on the grfcrawler
11:49:46 <dvdb> the most of the german article is written by me. but my englisch is so bad :(
11:50:10 <Gekz> Mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut.
11:51:38 <Gekz> lol, Zug always makes me laugh
11:53:09 <dvdb> in switzerland there are a lot of mountains. and it costs a lot to make highspeed ways; so they built a tilting train which can drive fast in curves.
11:54:42 <dvdb> Gekz: if you want to voyage to switzerland you can call me. i can show you the whole swiss railway-world.
11:55:00 <Gekz> if you're still alive in 2 years, and I can get to switzerland, definitely
11:55:27 <dvdb> Gekz: i'll stay in this irc channel two years long.
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12:46:21 <fdr> Hello! Please, can somebody tell me how to open the "Local authority" window? I cannot find it... thanks!
12:47:44 <Splatman> I think I have a bug with VS handling of the autoreplace backup/restore code, I am usinga custom build with Tracksharing, PBS and copy paste, basicly when certian trains (only reproduced it with a tripple headed 32 long mail trian due to lack of testing) fail an autoreplace the restore seems to courput the Cargo packets data and will then produce invalid save games
12:47:54 <Splatman> This doesn't hapend with BuildOTTD
12:49:08 <Splatman> I would but its a bugger to reproduce
12:49:30 <glx> it may be caused by one of the patches you applied
12:49:38 <Splatman> Non of the patches touch the code
12:49:49 <Splatman> for autoreplace and restore
12:50:30 <glx> but they can have out of bounds access and overwrite memory used by autoreplace
12:50:32 <Splatman> Track sharing does change feeder_share in the cargo packet to an array
12:50:55 <Splatman> The problem is I can't reliably reproduce it on the patch version
12:52:13 <Splatman> My fried thinks it because the Restor Vheicle function giving every vheicle in the train the same cargo list
12:52:45 <Splatman> quote "yeah, it's definitely memcopying the list head pointer from the local list, which is destroyed and recreated each loop (and the c++ allocator gives it the same address)"
12:53:18 <Splatman> and the thinks gcc uses a null pointer for an empty list
12:58:03 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13242 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove _opt_ptr.
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13:12:02 <Splatman> amzingly it does it on trunk
13:20:56 <Splatman> Using UKRS and PB's Industries, if you send the train thats in the station to the depot the auto replace fails, from then on it only saves corrupt files
13:26:18 <frosch123> If it is unmodified trunk, post it at bugs.openttd.org
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13:59:51 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13243 /3rdparty/squirrel/ (10 files in 4 dirs):
13:59:51 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [Squirrel] -Update: updated Squirrel to 2.2.1
13:59:51 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [Squirrel] -Remove: removed .pdf files from Squirrel, as they give more conflicts then anything else
14:38:57 <Gekz> what the hell is squirrel?
14:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> a small animal with a long furry tail
14:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> typically to be found in trees
14:40:57 <Bjarni> they are often gray, red and/or brown
14:42:54 <Bjarni> btw I did something yesterday
14:44:03 <Bjarni> aka the busiest ferry line in EU
14:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> did you call yourself "twoflower"?
14:44:41 <Prof_Frink> Did you have The Luggage?
14:44:43 <Bjarni> why do you have to ask? :)
14:47:35 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: why would I call myself anything like that???
14:47:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> oh great... now you ruined it :p
14:49:33 <Mchl> Description: A naive tourist wearing a wide grin
14:51:25 <Bjarni> not entirely like that
14:53:03 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni needs to read more Pratchett.
14:54:40 <Mchl> Bjarni: you'll like the concept of L-space, if you don't know it by now
14:54:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's even a TV movie
14:55:28 <Bjarni> I once saw a TV cartoon of Lord of the Rings
14:55:53 <Bjarni> and I had problems even linking it to the book
14:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, the LotR cartoons were bad...
14:57:13 <Bjarni> I saw it before reading the book and I was told that LotR should be really good so I watched the whole thing
14:57:38 <Bjarni> when it ended I was thinking "I didn't understand shit about what happened"
14:58:05 <Bjarni> it was just a bunch of weird people saying weird stuff
14:58:15 <Bjarni> and out of nowhere it ended
14:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, imho the Hogfather film is better than The Colour of Magic film
14:58:34 <Bjarni> while they were entering some game (I later learned that it had to be Moria)
14:59:18 <Bjarni> I can't even write correctiong right >_<
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15:02:27 <Bjarni> to avoid all the typos talking about fiction: what do you think about the picture?
15:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> there was a picture? :p
15:05:57 <Bjarni> <peter1138> it's a ferry race <-- it would be a silly race as they aren't going in the same direction :P
15:06:35 <murr4y> "fuck we're going the wrong way"
15:07:12 <Bjarni> actually this is normal traffic
15:07:31 <Bjarni> the two ferry lines have a total of 5 ferries
15:07:44 <Alberth> nah, turning point is just at the right of the picture, left-most ferry is quite far ahead :P
15:07:47 <Bjarni> going between the same two harbours
15:07:59 <Bjarni> the distance between them is 4 km
15:09:15 <Bjarni> the surprising thing is that they can go back and forth in just an hour (including emptying and filling the ferry in both ends)
15:09:28 <Bjarni> so it's 5 ferries in each direction every hour
15:10:11 <murr4y> are they usually full too?
15:10:12 * Bjarni notes not to buy a Mchl robot
15:10:36 <Bjarni> murr4y: not always completely full but full enough to justify so many ferries
15:11:04 <Mchl> I truncated result if division, then decided I needed more precision :P
15:11:32 <Bjarni> 3 ferries has 3 car decks and 2 have 2. This means a total of 13 car decks each way every hour
15:12:04 <Bjarni> and they operate around the clock
15:12:17 <Bjarni> (I don't think all ferries are active during the night though)
15:12:41 <Bjarni> <Mchl> why not build a bridge? <-- now you left the world of sanity and entered the political one
15:12:50 <Bjarni> I guess that's enough answer for that question :P
15:12:59 <murr4y> is there taxfree on the boat+
15:13:23 <Bjarni> and a really efficient one too
15:13:41 <Bjarni> since everybody who wants to buy something in it can do so in the 20 minute ride
15:14:23 <murr4y> i bet it's not very expensive to cross either
15:14:36 <murr4y> at least it's not from norway to sweden, about 100 NOK
15:15:15 <Bjarni> so basically I can go to Sweden, shop tax free, buy gadgets/ethernet stuff/whatever in a nice shop 100 meters from the ferry landing and then go back again for the same price and time as it takes to go to Copenhagen
15:15:26 <Bjarni> it's faster to go to Sweden
15:16:11 <Mchl> ah! joys of living near the border
15:16:43 <Bjarni> <Mchl> why not build a bridge? <-- actually I think the real reason is that if there should be a bridge then the politicians wanted it to be built in Copenhagen. Now they built one in Copenhagen and everybody claimed the ferries to be dead
15:16:54 <Bjarni> and the ferries hardly lost any passengers
15:17:01 <Mchl> did you take picture in Denmark, or in Sweden?
15:17:11 <Bjarni> the bridge on the other hand lack the traffic they expected
15:18:21 <Bjarni> one reason is that if you come from south or west of Copenhagen then the bridge is 50 km longer and 30% more expensive
15:18:43 <Rubidium> isn't the bridge on the south side of Copenhagen?
15:18:59 <Bjarni> it's in the eastern end
15:25:08 <Bjarni> one issue is that to get anywhere except the very southern part of Sweden then you have to go to E4 or E6 and hence very close to the ferry on the Swedish side
15:25:22 <Bjarni> making the bridge a detour
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15:26:48 <Bjarni> now they are talking about building a bridge from Denmark to Germany
15:26:58 <Bjarni> I don't think it will happen
15:27:09 <Bjarni> Germany says it's ok as long as Denmark is paying
15:27:49 <Bjarni> Sweden wants it but will not pay since it will not reach Sweden (it will affect travelling time between Sweden and Europe)
15:28:20 <Bjarni> Some Danish politicians wants it but the main drive in the political force was the transport minister who was replaced not long ago
15:28:30 <Bjarni> the population don't want to pay the price
15:28:48 <Rubidium> Bjarni: but.. there is already a bridge from Germany to Denmark
15:29:14 <Rubidium> you didn't say that!
15:29:38 <Bjarni> I presume that there is some short one in southern Jutland
15:30:28 <Bjarni> <Mchl> what's Peberholm? <-- a 4 km long artificial island created to allow the bridge to be as short as possible (which is in this case shrinked down to 8 km)
15:31:37 <Rubidium> Peberholm is made because some people were sissies
15:32:01 <Rubidium> building a bridge is cheaper than making an artificial island
15:32:18 <Mchl> well... someone got paid to build this island
15:32:25 <Mchl> and he was no sissy at all
15:33:46 <Bjarni> the funny thing is that there is no bridge from Peberholm to Denmark
15:34:06 <Bjarni> I never understood why they wanted a tunnel/bridge combo
15:34:19 <Rubidium> because of beforementioned sissies
15:34:44 <Bjarni> just like the bridge on Storebælt
15:34:44 <Rubidium> because "a plane might prematurely stop flying during the approach"
15:35:03 <Bjarni> to prevent blocking waterflow some politicians wanted a tunnel instead
15:35:45 <Bjarni> so because trains are more environmental friendly they ended up making a tunnel for the trains and a bridge for the cars
15:36:17 <Rubidium> trains need more expensive bridges
15:36:34 <Bjarni> but the reason was not money but the environment
15:37:27 <Bjarni> they fucked up one thing regarding that bridge
15:37:46 <Bjarni> you could any kind of bike on the ferries but the bridge is for cars only
15:37:59 <Bjarni> then people could put the bikes on the train instead
15:38:22 <Bjarni> nobody thought about the railroad restrictions regarding bikes
15:38:33 <Bjarni> only normal bikes with no bags or anything
15:38:51 <Bjarni> meaning if you pack your tent and stuff on your bike you were screwed
15:38:59 <Bjarni> while the ferries accepted that
15:39:01 <peter1138> hmm, alsa switched from HG to GIT
15:39:23 <Bjarni> I never got git to work
15:39:30 <Bjarni> but HG works just fine
15:39:52 <Bjarni> compiled and installed in first try and never gave any problems
15:40:52 <Rubidium> peter1138: GIT<->GIT probably works better than HG<->GIT
15:43:39 <pasky> curious, did you have any particular problems with git?
15:44:01 <Bjarni> it failed to compile/work
15:44:04 <glx> it doesn't work on windows
15:44:06 <pasky> peter1138: probably has something to do with the change of maintainer too
15:44:14 <Bjarni> but I can't remember any specific reason
15:44:22 <pasky> there's a windows version (msysgit) but I'm not sure how much beta it still is
15:44:48 <pasky> but on unix i heard only rarely about problems with getting git to work
15:45:47 <Bjarni> maybe it will just work out of the box if I get the net source
15:45:56 <Bjarni> or try to get it to work
15:46:15 <Bjarni> I was more or less like "it failed... let's try HG instead"
15:46:51 <pasky> yeah, i can see that :)
15:47:13 <Bjarni> HG worked and since I only needed one of them...
15:48:03 <Bjarni> for all I know reading the whole readme might tell me to install some lib or something :P
15:48:49 <Bjarni> none of them are in fink though :/
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15:49:47 <Bjarni> Description: Stupid content tracker (1.5.3.7-2)
15:51:38 <Bjarni> HG needs OSX 10.4+ while git needs 10.3+
15:51:47 <pasky> and you're using 10.2? :)
15:52:03 <Bjarni> I wonder what would happen with HG on 10.3
15:52:11 <Bjarni> maybe the package maintainer just didn't test it
15:52:26 <Bjarni> <pasky> and you're using 10.2? :) <-- I have a computer that can't boot anything never than 10.2
15:52:37 <Bjarni> and one that can't boot anything older than 10.4
15:52:50 <Bjarni> 10.3... I miss you :~(
15:53:15 <peter1138> and a pc will still run DOS
15:53:22 <peter1138> that's how great OS X is, clearly
15:54:30 <Bjarni> I started wondering about the quality of OSX when I realised how 10.5 works
15:54:45 <Bjarni> or at least the backwards compatibility in it
15:56:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> what does port 110 do?
15:57:07 <Bjarni> at least if you open it
15:57:42 <Bjarni> pop3 110/tcp Post Office Protocol - Version 3
15:58:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13244 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix: allow only one town directory window to be opened
15:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> then 554 is some kind of radio streaming i assume
15:59:43 <Bjarni> rtsp 554/tcp Real Time Streaming Protocol (RTSP)
15:59:58 <Bjarni> I just gave you the link ;)
16:00:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that file is still downloading
16:00:28 <Bjarni> your browser should support search so you just search for the port number and you have it in no time
16:00:41 <Bjarni> it showed up here more or less instantly
16:02:52 <peter1138> don't you have /etc/services?
16:12:26 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13245 /trunk/src/ (misc/smallvec.h vehicle.cpp vehicle_func.h vehicle_type.h): -Codechange: Use SmallVectors for generating vehicle lists, simplifying calling code somewhat.
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16:22:49 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13246 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r13245): incorrect parameters to memcpy
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16:29:33 <Digitalfox> I'm doing a little web site for an exam, and I need some help.. I have to design a Web page with HTML+ CSS.. Now after I have done it ( used a tutorial that says it's XHTML ), I see that I have the option to insert in Index.htm " Document Type Definition ".. Do I need it for a HTML + CSS page?
16:29:57 <Digitalfox> The exam says I just need to create a HTML + CSS page no mention on XHTML
16:30:55 <Mchl> page will work without it, but it is better to add it
16:31:21 <Digitalfox> But Mchl the exam just mentions HTML + CSS, by using XHTML am I failing?
16:31:57 <Digitalfox> So can I assume that by using CSS I need to have XHTML?
16:32:07 <peter1138> or if you did an XHTML page, use an XHTML DTD
16:32:23 <Mchl> no, you can use CSS with HTML
16:32:46 <Mchl> but from examiners point of view, there should be no diffirence between XHTML and HTML
16:32:47 <Digitalfox> So what is the diference by using extensible version?
16:33:40 <Bjarni> I once told about solving an electronic issue with a solution about how to produce the hardware in a specific way. The point in this is that at that time I had to study for another year before I could select to learn about this stuff and it's not even mandatory
16:33:41 <Digitalfox> I'll post it here in a while, it's very simple, really.. But I had to start like this :)
16:33:46 <Bjarni> I got a pretty good grade :)
16:33:48 <Mchl> actually, HTML started as a language that would describe both what's on the page, and how's it presented to the end user
16:34:22 <Mchl> this approach leaded to many problems
16:34:37 <Mchl> so wise people in W3C decided to split the two functions
16:35:12 <Mchl> you should use XHTML to describe what's on the page
16:35:27 <Mchl> and CSS to tell browser, how it should look like
16:36:17 <Mchl> (I am sure I did some serious ommisions in this story, but in basic terms it goes something like that)
16:37:06 <Bjarni> I don't think I ever did something like that with programming though
16:43:18 <Digitalfox> Mchl could you have a look please?
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16:44:08 <Digitalfox> This is only until a sample in HTML
16:44:26 <Digitalfox> Now I will introduce some more pages and use CSS
16:45:14 <Mchl> i am taking a look right now
16:45:50 <Digitalfox> I just want to know if structure in HTML is in a neat way with line breaks and indents, I mean is ok like this?
16:46:06 <Mchl> this is a site that'll validate your markup
16:46:34 <Mchl> you have to add Doctype section though, so it could work
16:46:45 <Mchl> as for indents, they're not really important
16:47:04 <Mchl> they're only useful for browsingcode
16:47:20 <Digitalfox> Mchl in what you have seen is it XHTML ot HTML?
16:47:51 <Mchl> as long as you dont add Doctype, there's no diffirence
16:48:08 <Mchl> (with such simple markup that is)
16:49:29 <Mchl> you can't hace <center> inside <p></p>
16:50:36 <Digitalfox> So should be <center><p></p></center> ?
16:51:02 <Mchl> the best would be to use CSS for that
16:51:27 <Digitalfox> I guess when do the CSS part most of it has to be removed tehn..
16:51:58 <Digitalfox> But its good to start by trying to do everything in HTML and the migrate what it needs to CSS right?
16:52:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you know you're going to use two languages, you might as well take a few seconds to think and then take the best of both languages
16:53:53 <Digitalfox> you are right Eddi|zuHause2 but I'm leraning HTML and then I'l go to CSS :)
17:04:32 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13247 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Codechange: small amount of coding style for settings.cpp.
17:10:49 <glx> isn't <center> usage deprecated?
17:11:17 <SmatZ> I think it isn't in XHTML
17:12:51 <Mchl> i think it is in XHTML 1.0 Strict
17:13:04 <Mchl> but for HTML 4.01 Transitional it's fine
17:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> yay for "standards" :p
17:14:06 <bowman> transitional isn't fine! strict or bust :)
17:15:56 <Mchl> it's fine for school exam...
17:15:59 <bowman> there should be nothing in the markup itself that specifies anything about visual layout
17:16:21 <bowman> learning the old tagsoup mess will just propagate bad habits
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17:20:30 <Mchl> we may lower that risk, by telling him from the beginning he should not use them for anything alse than his very first page ;)
17:23:01 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13248 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_func.h vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Use VehicleList for depot GUI.
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17:26:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13249 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2039]: make industry sorting by transported percentage more consistent
17:37:02 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13250 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: Use VehicleList in SendAllVehiclesToDepot()
17:41:05 <dvdb> question: are there plans to realize diagonal bridges/tunnels?
17:43:01 <Mchl> but I might not have the altest info ;)
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18:00:29 <Bjarni> like something is burning
18:00:30 <peter1138> so you've fixed them then?
18:00:59 <Bjarni> I guess so because it's working perfectly
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18:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> <dvdb> question: are there plans to realize diagonal bridges/tunnels? <- what qualifies as "plan"?
18:20:35 <Bjarni> it means: is there any chance that somebody will try to implement it within 20 years
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18:21:11 <Bjarni> if plans means that one of the current coders will implement it within a week then... fat chance
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18:46:51 <xahodo> I've got a problem with the new orders gui (yes, I know... it's there for a while already, but I tried to get used to it before coming here).
18:49:07 <xahodo> Can't all those drop-down lists be made into buttons, which cycle through all of their available options? That would make it a lot more useful imho.
18:53:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> # U i vethed na i onnad.
18:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Si boe u-dhanna.
18:53:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> # Ae u-esteli, esteliach nad.
18:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> how do you mean buttons?
18:53:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> sometimes i wish they would just keep the last selection
18:54:12 <xahodo> Well, instead of drop-down lists, just normal buttons.
18:54:26 <xahodo> Like buttons which you can click and then the next option appears.
18:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> what would that achieve?
18:54:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> except from not knowing all the options?
18:55:10 <xahodo> Ease of use, drop-down menus are tedious to use.
18:57:29 <xahodo> perhaps a compromise then: the drop-down menu still appears, but you could click the button to cycle through the options, instead of being forced to move the mouse over the option you want and /then/ clicking it.
18:57:54 <xahodo> Or how about a patch-setting, allowing you to choose between the two (or maybe 3)?
19:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is surely the way to go!! :p
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19:01:52 <Prof_Frink> We should fork openttd-kde, with options for *everything*
19:02:36 <Prof_Frink> gopenttd having one button, marked "build network"
19:04:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> # estelio han, estelio veleth
19:05:02 <Digitalfox> does it make any sense making CCS use the white clour for background when it's the default one in html?
19:05:27 <peter1138> white background is not the default
19:05:41 <peter1138> many sites assume it is, but it's not
19:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> "default" is "whatever the browser is set to"
19:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> and to reprise the above discussion... konqeror :p
19:06:19 <Digitalfox> but peter when we create a html file, it always uses white, so what you are saying is that happen just because the browser uses white by default but can be change by the user?
19:07:05 <Digitalfox> so i'll always use css in every page for background :)
19:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> i hate sites forcing anything which they might as well let the user decide
19:09:27 <Rubidium> like fontsizes in pixels or points
19:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> like if i have a desktop theme using dark background and light text, having webpages with the opposite is really bad
19:09:34 <peter1138> but worse is only specifying foreground and not background
19:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> or width of 640 pixels... resulting of only a small stripe being used
19:11:50 <Rubidium> or forcing a width more than 920 pixels
19:12:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> or forcing a width - period
19:13:09 <Digitalfox> but I should always define the width and height of a picture right? Like for example I have a photo 752*384, I should say the size so the browser when having a slow load of the picture already puts the page at it's size.. I hope I make sence..
19:13:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> or worse: forcing frame sizes in pixels, relying on a specific font in a specific size to fit into them
19:14:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> and any person using a different font/size is hopelessly screwed
19:14:46 <peter1138> "everyone uses 96dpi!"
19:17:04 <Digitalfox> Another noob question about css ( sorry guys I'm reading a tutorial and testing stuff, but have doubts ), should I always define font clors even if I just want the text in black?
19:17:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13251 /trunk/src/ (80 files in 7 dirs):
19:17:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: rename _patches to _settings as that is more logic.
19:17:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: move all Settings into substructs of _settings in a way that they are logically grouped.
19:17:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> didn't we just say: never specify colours unless you really have to?
19:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> like: you have a background picture and want to have the text visible on it
19:18:41 <Digitalfox> but Eddi|zuHause2 I thought the same applied like the background where the default could be modified..
19:18:52 <Digitalfox> if choosed in browser
19:19:15 <Prof_Frink> Yes. So if you set the background, set the foreground.
19:20:25 <Digitalfox> Haven't got the foreground in tutorial :p
19:20:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> foreground == text colour
19:21:01 <peter1138> if you haven't set either colour, then fine
19:21:08 <peter1138> if the user has stupid defaults, that's their problem
19:21:16 <Digitalfox> well I defined the background in white
19:21:35 <Digitalfox> since it would look bad in other color
19:21:35 <peter1138> then define the text colour
19:29:36 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13252 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix: when converting orders from older savegames, set 'Unload and leave empty' for 'Unload' orders
19:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> a while ago i made a test run with KDE 4, and tried a dark desktop scheme, because it is better for the eyes
19:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> but web pages with white background screw that up
19:30:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> it really hurts when you open a browser, and suddenly the whole screen is bright
19:38:29 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13253 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: simplify conversion of old orders a bit
20:00:24 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13254 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix: waypoint orders could have invalid flags set after conversion
20:12:46 <Digitalfox> but Eddi|zuHause2 well for what I'm starting to understand if I don't define a background color users can have also a bad experience..
20:13:05 <Digitalfox> It's like a trade off option..
20:16:52 <peter1138> i think you fail to understand. it is pretty simple.
20:17:08 <peter1138> the validator checks it too
20:36:51 <Tefad> Eddi|zuHause2: this is why i set my brightness to something dumb
20:37:00 <Tefad> then counter with a hardware gamma if i have it
20:38:00 <Tefad> it's like screwing with the contrast but you don't lose as much information
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21:08:24 <Ammler> is it possible to "auto"-replace mail waggons with pass waggons?
21:10:37 <Rubidium> FOR_ALL_VEHICLES(v) if (v->cargo_type = CT_MAIL) v->cargo_type = CT_PASS;
21:11:00 <Rubidium> probaly fails horribly with newgrfs
21:12:23 <Ammler> you can't do such things with console
21:12:33 <Ammler> you would need a debugger, I guess
21:13:19 <peter1138> i doubt a debugger would do that
21:13:20 <Rubidium> more than likely that the debugger can't do it that efficiently either
21:16:14 * Touqen pokes people randomly.
21:16:31 <Tefad> divo didn't like it either it seems.
21:16:39 <pasky> certainly if you keep the single equal sign in the condition at least
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21:21:30 <Rubidium> pasky: it'd still make all mail wagons passenger wagons
21:21:45 <Touqen> As well as every other vehicle.
21:21:52 <Touqen> So it's "right" but not "correct".
21:21:53 <pasky> isn't that what ammler wanted?
21:22:31 <Sacro> Mchl: i live in a house
21:28:01 <Touqen> You should totally rip out squirrel and replace the NoAI programming language with scheme.
21:39:24 <Sacro> Four of the five crew members were slightly injured during the accident which fortunately left the 747 in good shape, despite having split in two
21:42:11 <Bjarni> I wouldn't trust a plane split in two to be in good shape
21:42:31 <Sacro> Bjarni: meh, it'll buff right out
21:42:54 <Bjarni> but whoever wrote that should feel free to try to fly with that thing
21:43:06 <Bjarni> as long as he will be in safe distance from me
21:43:35 <Touqen> Bjarni: You'd be surprised much a plane can be fixed right up in a jiffy.
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21:45:09 <Touqen> Damned fingers dropping words on me again.
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22:10:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can counter that by packing additional words for safetx
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22:22:48 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Gaffer tape the two ends together, it'll be fine.
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22:30:37 <Mido> does anybody know how the custom music thing in the jukebox works?
22:31:26 <Arie-> just say yes and then be silent ;)
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22:31:36 <Arie-> you answered his question
22:31:47 <Prof_Frink> Arie-: Sacro is not in that group.
22:32:15 <Prof_Frink> Sacro is not in the group of knowing anything.
22:32:31 <Rubidium> he could still answer a question by saying something random
22:32:40 <Sacro> he asked if "anybody knew"
22:32:41 <Mido> alright, let me refine my question. can anybody EXPLAIN the custom music feature.
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22:50:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> the key to solving a problem is to ask the right question
22:51:05 <Touqen> The great Eddi-san has spoken.
22:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> and by induction you get: the solution of a problem is a series of right questions
22:53:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> Touqen: actually, G. Cantor said that [in a slight variation]
22:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> and my school was named after that person...
22:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> which might or might not be just a coincidence :p
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23:01:20 <Mido> and still nobody has told me how to use custom music -_-
23:01:55 <Touqen> Apparently you haven't yet hit the series of right questions.
23:02:34 <Mido> i refined my question several times
23:02:41 <Mido> the most recent edition of the question is
23:02:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> apparently not, you would have your answer if that was the case
23:03:15 <Mido> Mido> alright, let me refine my question. can anybody EXPLAIN the custom music feature.
23:04:05 <glx> it's just to allow you to make your own playlist with ttd music
23:04:17 <glx> like the 3 predifined styles
23:07:07 <Mido> ......thats incredibly pointless....the game only comes with 20 or so songs
23:07:24 <Mido> most of which are under a minute long
23:07:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
23:07:58 <Mido> not to mention how annoying the music gets after hearing it hundreds of times
23:08:44 <Mido> anyways...there must be some way to get the game to play music from a folder
23:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes. start winamp, add music, press play, minimise to tray :p
23:13:40 *** ben_goodger has joined #openttd
23:13:43 <Mido> yeah i know but it would be useful if you could configure the in game jukebox to play it so you dont have to minimize the game every time you want to change to a specific song
23:14:46 <Touqen> Why play in fullscreen?
23:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> why would you do that?
23:15:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
23:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> real operating systems can display non-fullscreen-applications without exiting full screen
23:17:30 * Touqen pokes indiscriminately.
23:21:11 <dih> i dont even know that word
23:22:32 <Bjarni> it was in self defence
23:22:37 <Bjarni> he wanted to rape me >_<
23:22:46 <Sacro> Bjarni: i didn't want to
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23:23:05 * dih corrects the url to dict.leo.org
23:24:05 * Bjarni notes that Sacro listens to his parents
23:24:34 <dih> Touqen: you nasty little pervert
23:24:48 <dih> i asked for a hug - not some other kind of game of yours...
23:25:16 <Bjarni> dih: you ask people on the internet to get close to you
23:25:24 <Bjarni> you should have expected this to happen
23:25:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> what a perfect world it would be if everybody got what he asked for...
23:26:05 <dih> you never aksed for it, but still got it ^^
23:26:23 <ben_goodger> dih: if you're looking up "grope" you will be unpleasantly surprised
23:26:24 <Bjarni> Sacro keeps on asking for boobs
23:26:25 <ben_goodger> that wouldn't work, in any case.
23:26:43 <Bjarni> but I don't think he needs to invest in a bra just yet
23:27:05 <dih> Bjarni: Sacro would, of course he would - be the only pair he'd ever get ^^
23:27:38 <Bjarni> he actually claims to have fucked his friend's ex girlfriend o_O
23:28:02 <ben_goodger> some people would be wishing "الله ، يرجى تدمير اسرائيل" and others would be wishing "I'd quite like everyone to live happily with each other" and those two are mutually exclusive
23:28:11 <Bjarni> we can only imagine why she ended up in a mental hospital
23:28:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't have these characters...
23:29:20 <dih> Eddi: i assume you have other characters then?
23:29:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> we are not schitzophrenic!!
23:29:40 <Bjarni> it would appear that it's Arabic and calling god (Allah?) to destroy Israel
23:30:00 <Bjarni> but the real question is... where did ben_goodger get that quote from?
23:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> who works on a sunday night?
23:31:43 <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause2: arabic for "god, please destroy israel", according to google translate
23:31:43 <ben_goodger> evidently the destruction of the jews is incompatible with global harmony
23:31:43 <Bjarni> but working as a student gives me a very forgiving boss when it comes to clicking links
23:31:47 <ben_goodger> Bjarni: google translate's statistical translation system is very, very, _very_ good
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23:32:06 <Sacro> ben_goodger: nah, got to be real
23:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't have any spare bandwidth
23:32:38 <Sacro> then you are missing out
23:32:50 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: with your bandwidth then you shouldn't waste any of it on Sacro links
23:33:09 <Bjarni> specially not after somebody declares it fake
23:33:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> i was not going to ;)
23:33:57 <ben_goodger> I mean the inflation. it's blatantly done with a pump of some sort. also, it wouldn't make that noise
23:33:58 <Bjarni> <ben_goodger> Bjarni: google translate's statistical translation system is very, very, _very_ good <-- I have seen google translate create some wtf translations
23:34:19 <ben_goodger> Bjarni: it was only introduced in the last few months afaik
23:34:44 <Bjarni> like when it claimed that the "ink band" from the typewriter were used to build a snowplow
23:34:45 <ben_goodger> it does funny things with german sometimes
23:35:01 <ben_goodger> it's quite poor at russian also; but it will learn as it gets more and more suggestions to
23:35:04 <ben_goodger> bayes' formula is like that ^^
23:35:17 <Bjarni> it was supposed to be some sort of rotating metal spikes
23:36:15 <Bjarni> I wonder what will happen if we give feedback on how it could be translated and we write weird stuff
23:36:28 <Bjarni> would it fuck up the translator or do they filter out stuff
23:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> it will first fuck up the translator, and then they improve the filters
23:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was like this with the search engine, too
23:38:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> first people started to put senseless words into pages, so they would show up on top of the results
23:38:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> and then they improved the weighting algorithm
23:38:54 <Belugas> Mido, the game, as it is, does not allow any kinf of music addition. When I want to listen to music, most of the time, i juist put winamp on random. Works fine.
23:39:58 <Bjarni> Even today's most sophisticated software, however, doesn't approach the fluency of a native speaker or possess the skill of a professional translator. <-- I disagree. Sometimes google translate can be just as good as real translators
23:40:19 <Bjarni> but maybe that tells something about the quality of some professional translators :P
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23:41:03 <ben_goodger> I think it won't have that much of an effect
23:41:36 <Bjarni> I have actually seen somebody linking to an official translation, the original text and as a comment to those links he said that he hoped they used a computer to translate because if a person did that translation then they hired the wrong guy
23:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> typical problems of translators are hidden connotations of words, or names that are not identified as such, because they look like normal words
23:43:07 <Bjarni> I have actually seen google translate identify names of people and translate accordingly (unlike babelfish that created wtf stuff of the same string)
23:43:55 <Rubidium> Google is inconsequent with translations
23:44:28 <Rubidium> in the same sentence it can translate a person's name in two different ways
23:45:59 <Bjarni> just found something that can mess up google translate
23:46:07 <Bjarni> and I think it's unfixable :P
23:46:57 <Bjarni> ゆき太郎 (translate this from Japanese to English). It will identify it as the name of a person and write "Taro Yuki" which is correct
23:47:19 <Bjarni> however if it's the name of a robot then the correct translation would be "Yukitaro"
23:47:31 <Bjarni> but it's written in the same way in Japanese
23:47:49 <Rubidium> got to love context, right?
23:47:49 <Bjarni> so I have no idea on how to tell the translator what to write XD
23:48:28 <Bjarni> <Rubidium> got to love context, right? <-- yeah but how would you tell google translate the context?
23:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> just try to translate "Zug" from german to english :p
23:49:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> but does it know the other 20 meanings?
23:50:11 <Sacro> like u-bah and bahnplatz
23:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> from "motorbike with a trailer" over "wind in a room" to "town in switzerland"?
23:50:26 <Bjarni> Sacro: is train and railroad the same word?
23:50:45 <Sacro> we use train station and raliway station interchangebly
23:51:11 <Bjarni> can you always replace train with railroad and vice versa in all sentences?
23:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Das Meerschweinchen hat Zug abbekommen" does not mean "the guinea-pig was overrund by a train"
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23:52:10 <Bjarni> The guinea pig train has abbekommen"
23:52:21 <Bjarni> what is that newline doing there?
23:52:36 <Sacro> Bjarni: pissing you off
23:52:36 <Bjarni> google added a newline o_O
23:52:42 <Sacro> and wasting SpComb's server space
23:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> argh fucking google stroke again... the dropdown buttons do not work in konqueror
23:53:38 <Bjarni> if you have the bandwidth to download it
23:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah... but i hate firefox
23:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have it installed
23:54:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> for really desperate times
23:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> like when i want something from sourceforge
23:54:13 <Bjarni> maybe you should try it when konquror fails
23:54:55 <Bjarni> and no Sacro, I don't mean "failse" :P
23:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> but really, how bad is google translator if it cannot get the meaning of such a simple word like "abbekommen"?
23:56:52 <glx> like all other google services ;)
23:56:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> isn't google synonym for "eternally beta"?
23:57:11 <Bjarni> but you who is presumed to be the best one of us as German should tell them how to translate this line
23:57:27 <Bjarni> and you have done a good deed
23:58:54 <Bjarni> that page appears to know something google didn't
23:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's not a computer generated translation :p
23:59:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd
23:59:58 <Bjarni> that page reminds me... some installer for a commercial game could make two installs... it could make Deutsch" and "Englisch"
continue to next day ⏵
