IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-04-28
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00:06:17 *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
00:08:21 <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2 what part? the railcar itself
00:08:28 <mynetdude> nah tinyurl was better IMHO
00:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> what's special about it?
00:09:31 <Sacro> anyone wanna talk about pens? join #penisland!
00:09:34 <mynetdude> nevermind, wrong link... that link goes to a blog
00:10:07 <mynetdude> Sacro isn't this like family PG-13 only kind of stuff??? I don't want to know about penis really
00:10:18 <Sacro> mynetdude: nope, penisland
00:10:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> you don't know about pen-island?
00:10:44 <mynetdude> sorry but it looks spelled the other way :( now I feel stupid
00:11:10 <mynetdude> why do I want to talk about pens though?
00:11:19 <mynetdude> Sacro now you know what I am talking about :P
00:11:19 <Sacro> wait till you hear about molestationnursery
00:11:43 <mynetdude> Mole Station Nursery sounds like molestation of kids :P
00:13:47 <mynetdude> what I really wanted to show was www.coloradorailcar.com not the blog
00:14:22 <mynetdude> for some reason the link to the blog I thought was the colorado railcar website becaue I had clicked on a link from the blog and the link did not change in my browser's URL unless I break out of the frame
00:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> way too colourful
00:14:49 <mynetdude> from reading the blog though I have some ideas for my ottd map
00:14:55 <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2 I have to agree, but thats not the point
00:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> so... what is special about THAT?
00:15:44 <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2 two things: 1. I'd like to see "winged" trains in ottd if that is possible for at least the EMUs 2ndly I'd like to see some colorado rail cars in OTTD :)
00:15:51 <mynetdude> I didn't say its special, I just said its interesting
00:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> what do you mean "winged"?
00:16:24 *** Neiponi has joined #openttd
00:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have an answer
00:17:25 <Neiponi> :) What do I do when I ran it in safemode and it says I'm not registered properly?
00:17:45 <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2 read the blog, "winged" is when you join two complete trains together that are going to the same destination and split at a junction
00:18:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> oh yes, that'd be part of shunting... if anyone ever codes that :p
00:19:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> Neiponi: i'm afraid you should rephrase that question
00:19:38 <Tefad> Neiponi: don't know what you're talking about
00:20:02 <Neiponi> I have downloaded the Windows.zip file
00:20:24 <Neiponi> Now when I try to run it it says I'm not registered properly
00:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> which windows .zip file?
00:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> and what is the exact message?
00:21:32 <Neiponi> The mav/TTD one on the Downloads topic...
00:21:40 <Neiponi> Hold on, I'm bringing up the message now
00:21:57 <Neiponi> It says, "Error reading registry"
00:22:26 <Neiponi> The title in the blue at the top of the window was "Initialization Error"
00:22:29 <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2 that is considered shunting? I saw a video of two trains connecting with automatic coupling locks that is all computerized they do it either at the junction or at the station
00:22:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> openttd does not use the registry
00:22:56 <planetmaker> hehe :D. OpenTTD trojan :P
00:23:07 <Neiponi> That's what I thought - it doesn't use it...
00:23:20 <Neiponi> I hope it isn't a trojan...
00:23:31 <planetmaker> where did you get that file from?
00:23:49 <Neiponi> The forum topic of the downloads on this site...
00:24:18 <planetmaker> a zip file itself cannot write to the registry.
00:24:26 <mynetdude> ah, I wouldn't get it from the forum, the openttd website has its own download link
00:24:47 <planetmaker> and don't use the installer for windows. installer suck
00:24:56 <mynetdude> ah I did, and it works fine
00:25:00 <Neiponi> Ok, but then how do I get the missing files? The .cat?
00:25:06 <mynetdude> just make sure you have the data files it needs
00:25:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> from your original TTD cd
00:25:12 <planetmaker> from your ttdx cd?
00:25:24 <Neiponi> ...except I don't have a TTD cd...
00:25:27 <mynetdude> or you can install without the data files, then copy the data files from the data zip which you can download also
00:25:45 <planetmaker> search google for ttd
00:26:10 <Neiponi> Thank you so much! (As you can tell, I'm not the smartest at .zip files or copying downloads...)
00:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> the installer should search if you have the data files already on your HD
00:26:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> and automatically copy them
00:27:46 <Neiponi> Hmm...what compatibility do the files have to be? I tried browsing for files from the download
00:27:54 <Neiponi> and nothing would show up
00:29:09 <mynetdude> Neiponi they have to be the windows version of the data files, you can use the DOS version but some graphics will look funny
00:29:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> the files would be called trg*.grf
00:29:43 <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2 is there any chance someone will code above ground or subways or perhaps the "3rd rail" track setups?
00:30:12 <mynetdude> cool :) I'll be here to test it
00:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> could take a while ;)
00:30:36 <mynetdude> I've got time, I'm only 28
00:34:19 <Neiponi> One more question...what's the path to the missing files on the .zip folder?
00:34:34 <mynetdude> well what missing files are you talking about?
00:34:34 <Neiponi> ...if that's the right one and I'm not totally messed up lol
00:34:56 <Neiponi> The .cat and the other ones that I need to copy for the OpenTTD download
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00:36:25 <mynetdude> oh you mean the data files
00:36:48 <mynetdude> the data files will be stored in C:\program files\openTTD\data\
00:37:11 <Neiponi> The missing data files? The .cat files?
00:37:16 <Neiponi> There's nothing there...
00:37:41 <mynetdude> I don't know about .cat files I only know how to install mine... the others here are better at it than me :(
00:37:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, because you have to take them from the other zip file
00:40:25 <Neiponi> The Windows patch is downloading now...I hope it works...
00:41:05 <Neiponi> Oh boy...here we go again lol
00:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> if people would ever listen...
00:41:39 <Yexo> Neiponi: you need the original game
00:42:12 <Neiponi> Alright I'm on the thing which needs the thing I'm downloading anyway...
00:42:16 <mynetdude> Yexo: you only need the data files from the original game, I don't have the original game just the data files from it
00:42:38 <Neiponi> How did you get those, mynet dude?
00:42:43 <Yexo> mynetdude: I know that, but that's not important now. What is important, is that Neiponi gets the data files
00:42:49 <mynetdude> I did a search for it
00:43:02 <Yexo> Neiponi: either from a copy of the original game or from someone else with a copy of it
00:43:04 <mynetdude> Yexo thats my point, all he needs is the data files not the game
00:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> don't post such links here!
00:46:14 <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause3 why not?
00:47:05 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause3: you're right, I shouldn't have posted it
00:47:10 <mynetdude> infact if I recall correctly openttd.org actually gives a link to the data files
00:47:23 <mynetdude> or at least gives you another link to where to find it
00:48:09 <Yexo> mynetdude: I can't find such a link anywhere and don't think there is one
00:48:18 <Neiponi> OMG!!! IT runs!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH GUYS!!! (Sorry for the caps, I don't think it'll do underline or italics)
00:49:03 <mynetdude> Yexo, I don't remember but I do recall there was a link from the openttd site linking to another site or whatnot
00:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think italics is non-standard
00:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> some clients understand it, others not
00:51:07 <mynetdude> yeah speaking of that, I want more colors mIRC has only like 12 colors
00:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> problem is, ^U and ^B are free, but ^I coincides with the tab character
00:51:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> colours come in 16s
00:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> but i'm quite sure they are disabled here
00:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> like they are in any sane channel
01:01:09 <Rubidium> mynetdude: only to the forum and irc
01:03:14 <mynetdude> wth are you talking about U and B?
01:03:37 <mynetdude> sorry I don't understand, only to the forum and irc?
01:03:46 <mynetdude> no I see colors, the mIRC colors that is
01:03:55 <mynetdude> you don't see them because they are clientside
01:04:46 <teeg> gah. why did the forum decide to die just now? :(
01:05:15 <mynetdude> yeah thats a problem when you are so intrigued in something
01:05:24 <Rubidium> mynetdude: openttd.org does not directly link to any download side of TTD. Indirectly it does, but well... that's because you can indirectly go to google.com via the forum too.
01:07:07 <Rubidium> @kick Yexo giving links to illegal software is still forbidden in here.
01:07:38 <Yexo> shouldn't have posted the second link
01:07:55 <mynetdude> Rubidium yeah I was looking at the first link, it had a general link to the forums or to google
01:08:16 <mynetdude> and it even warned that he didn't condone downloading the game, I didn't download the game just the data files
01:08:30 <mynetdude> then again, you can buy TTD for $10 at some places
01:08:50 <Rubidium> mynetdude: downloading the game files is as illegal as downloading the game
01:09:16 <mynetdude> oh, didn't know it was the same thing
01:09:32 <teeg> mynetdude: it's a copyright thing
01:09:39 <mynetdude> well that makes sense
01:09:49 <teeg> besides, ttd costs what? $5?
01:10:00 <teeg> "o noes mah wallet will die"
01:10:03 <mynetdude> what I said about $10ish depending where you go
01:10:24 <teeg> I wonder what amazon'll charge for it
01:10:31 <mynetdude> but TBH Chris Sawyer should redesign TTD with better graphics/engine
01:10:40 <mynetdude> but thats when he came out with RRT3
01:10:44 <Rubidium> mynetdude: called Locomotion
01:10:51 <teeg> locomotion, but its pathfinding code sucks
01:10:54 <mynetdude> ech you call that new/redesigned?
01:11:09 <mynetdude> ohhh hmm good point
01:11:19 <mynetdude> ok we'll have to carry on this discussion in an hour bbl
01:11:29 *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
01:12:28 <teeg> hm, does locomotion have diagonal roads? I could only be arsed to play locomotion for 2 hours half a year ago or something, I got too pissed off at its pathfinding code and its road/track building UI
01:35:47 <DaleStan> Belugas: Have you done anything more on callback 37? I very much want to add the definition that bits 8..15 of CB37 are set to 02 for the industry directory window.
01:35:48 <DaleStan> Also, I'm still sitting on that nasty extra-parameters code; did you say that you'd discussed better solutions, and if so what came of that?
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02:04:11 <mynetdude> hmm hey teeg is there any possibility ottd could use the locomotion graphics so we can get curved track/roads?
02:05:31 <mynetdude> anyway I posted some links, not of what I was looking for but I thought they were interesting while I was in the quest to find pictures of 1930s railroad stations to see if they had platforms unlike so many movies I have seen that have scenes pre 1900s
02:09:31 <teeg> mynetdude: highly doubtful, at least not without a rewrite of some sort. I suspect that rewrite would take more time etc than it would give back, and that's just getting it working to start with, let alone getting trains to look good while using the turns
02:11:35 <mynetdude> teeg, well don't the trains look good in locomotion? I have it (shhhh, you know the thing about illegal downloading in whole or in part)
02:11:55 <mynetdude> but I don't play it so I am considering getting rid of it anyway
02:12:03 <mynetdude> I took one look at the UI and wasn't really thrilled with it
02:12:07 <teeg> hell, even diagonal roads are a sore spot, go figure how curved tracks would be received. And to be honest I don't really see the point of it either, I think it's cute as it is.
02:12:48 <teeg> mynetdude: I haven't spent more than 2 hours with it myself, but a friend of mine complained that the trains didn't quite stick to the tracks, i.e. they were "floating on air"
02:12:53 <teeg> which doesn't really look all that good
02:12:55 <mynetdude> tbh diagnal roads aren't needed, they just make design of layouts easier
02:13:34 <mynetdude> well then I don't see how locomotion is "improved" than TTD it sounds like a botched job of trying to upgrade TTD
02:13:52 <mynetdude> but then again, TTD and Loco aren't the same game
02:14:03 <teeg> That's my take on locomotion as well. when I said it was improved, I should probably have written it as "improved"
02:14:22 <mynetdude> lol I could kind of tell you were kidding
02:15:05 <teeg> I don't remember how the pathfinding code in the original TTD was, but locomotion's pathfinding really sucks ass. I made 4 or 6 bus stops in a small town (10x10 tiles or something) and setup a few buses to do the loop around the town
02:15:06 <mynetdude> but still I'd like to see an TTD/OTTD style play with better graphics to some degree, although I have to admit the current classic graphics is still pretty good for that game
02:15:21 <teeg> and most of the time at least one bus would suddenly decide to go awol
02:15:28 <teeg> perhaps the busdriver's a drunkard :(
02:15:57 <mynetdude> I have played Trainz (I still have that game) the AI is very much like OTTD/Loco it will go awol at times
02:16:42 <mynetdude> but Trainz is not an transport tycoon game its a train simulator
02:17:57 <teeg> I was going to try to make ottd more oo, but the more I delve into ottd's code, the more I feel like rewriting everything. And if I do go down that road, then I have a few other ideas I might try to explore... which I probably might as well, since I'm getting the feeling that what I'm working on will be too big a change to be accepted, ever. and updated graphics is not high on that list. :P
02:19:16 <mynetdude> like I said the graphics isn't really "horrible" to say... and it still looks good for the kind of game it is and I would still keep the graphics but having updated graphics would be cool because newer graphics can show/do more
02:19:27 <teeg> big fancy term: object oriented. what I should be calling it is probably more like "restructuring the code", not "OO", since OO seems to trigger all sorts of reactions.
02:19:37 <teeg> mynetdude: what kind of graphics can show/do more?
02:20:04 <mynetdude> though I did see on one of the wikis that there is a "TTD" project going on, a whole new transport tycoon kind of game
02:20:17 <mynetdude> well I don't know if graphics can "do" more but they sure have more effects I suppose
02:20:55 <mynetdude> oh ok I know a bit about oo at the fundamental levels
02:21:29 <mynetdude> but not enough to say much
02:22:20 <teeg> same here. my grandiose ideas for radical improvement of ottd have mostly fizzed into nothing as I fiddled around with test code, and I figured out that what I was thinking of was either not possible, or would make the surrounding code even clunkier than it is now, which is not what I was hoping for, to say the least
02:23:04 <mynetdude> well at least you're able to see what is possible and isn't or what is realistically feasible
02:24:09 <mynetdude> I just hope that OTTD could expand more (and it already has) to reflect on what is currently available in real life
02:24:58 <mynetdude> like underground subways, SimCity takes this into account, above ground rail, I don't recall if SC has this, but I know SC has above ground highways though
02:25:18 <mynetdude> then again TTD/SC are two different types of games
02:26:32 <teeg> I would like an underground subway myself, along with tunnels which can go up/down/change direction
02:26:52 <teeg> and bridges which can go up in elevation f.ex
02:28:03 <mynetdude> well if the up/down bridge fx is possible it would not look like a smooth curve or something I don't know, I suppose its possible
02:29:18 <mynetdude> hell, something cool to add to ottd is underground cities in the future kind of thing
02:31:27 <teeg> seems like it could be an interesting alternative to ottd
02:31:40 <teeg> if it hasn't died that is
02:34:35 <boes_> i just think a cool feature to have would be tunnels that turn, but as i understand what has been said about the code, only the entrance/exit are actully mapped right now, so that would make it very difficult
02:37:44 <mynetdude> but you are right it would be nice to have turning/curved tunnels... I know of one tunnel that does that sorta in real life as Amtrak uses it daily here on the west coast
02:38:06 <boes_> subway tunnels turn in quite a few cities,
02:38:27 <mynetdude> if you're familiar with the Coast Starlight trains #11 and #14 N/S bound trains pass through the Willamette Pass but it is in tunnel sections
02:38:36 <teeg> almost all tunnels I've been in curve
02:38:49 <mynetdude> boes_ oh yeah duh, BART is a good example of one, the tunnel has a long curvature when crossing the bay
02:38:50 <teeg> at least most of the tunnels along the older roads along the coast of norway do
02:39:34 <mynetdude> I have been in tunnels that are almost perfectly straight but it is not a very long tunnel
02:40:04 <boes_> eisenhower tunnel in colorado has a 45% turn to it, if iirc
02:40:23 <mynetdude> heck I'd like to see different types of tunnels, like "half cut" where the tunnel is like a C the side wall is not present on one side
02:41:00 <boes_> tunnels under water would be cool as well
02:41:11 <mynetdude> Amtrak's Coast Starlight goes through the Willamette pass that is kinda like that, at certain parts of the turn part of the tunnel is exposed to the outside
02:41:39 <boes_> but i'll stop wishing for things that require the massive rewrite of the mapping code
02:41:53 * mynetdude has never been through the eisenhower tunnel yet
02:42:41 <boes_> if you ever get the chance, to go east bound through it, from the right hand lane look out to the right, it's a long way to the bottom of the valley before you go into it
02:43:26 <mynetdude> boes_ does Amtrak run through there?
02:43:38 <mynetdude> errr my bad you said "lane"
02:43:41 <boes_> not that i'm aware, only road
02:43:43 <mynetdude> lol its an automobile tunnel
02:44:15 <mynetdude> lolz I tend to stay away from driving in the right hand lane where there are steep inclines especially where there are no guardrails
02:44:23 <mynetdude> they scare the crap out of me
02:45:29 <boes_> there's no guard rails there, they do have boulders along the side, but a small car could easly go between them
02:45:51 <teeg> I think it's mostly straight, with maybe an elevation change at the middle to keep water out or something
02:45:58 <mynetdude> I know NYC has some of the longest tunnels
02:46:48 <mynetdude> there's this cool tunnel I forget the name of it... but its in Virginia part of it is underwater you enter at land, you come out somewhere justbefore land again
02:47:30 <teeg> oh, I just remembered another thing a friend of mine wanted: signals on bridges and in tunnels, to keep the flow up
02:47:53 <mynetdude> oh yeah... I was going to ask about signaling for trams
02:48:15 <mynetdude> better yet... have trams share the same roads as automobiles do
02:48:30 <mynetdude> I know that autos don't need signals in ottd
02:48:39 <mynetdude> but when I think of trams I think of lightrail
02:48:48 <mynetdude> unless trams and lightrails are different?
02:49:19 <mynetdude> AFAIK lightrail trains are required to follow the same traffic laws of red/green lights as cars do
02:50:01 <mynetdude> the only exception is when they are stopped at a station on a city block they have their own signal and cars will be stopped with a normal traffic signal that are in conjunction to lightrail signals
02:51:46 <teeg> might have to consider sleeping...
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04:57:12 <mynetdude> whats the difference between ttdp and ottd? I thought ottd included ttdp?
04:58:13 <DaleStan> In about the same way that Windows includes Linux.
05:00:12 <mynetdude> windows includes linux? wth?
05:00:29 <mynetdude> well I'm looking at the ttdp/ottd comparative... basically ottd has ttdp
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05:00:48 <Celestar> DaleStan: nice comparison :)
05:02:55 <DaleStan> <mynetdude> windows includes linux? wth? <-- exactly. Now change those words to "OpenTTD" and "TTDPatch", but don't change the wth part.
05:03:19 <DaleStan> It'll be just as correct.
05:03:33 <mynetdude> DaleStan but windows doesn't include linux AFAIK... or never has...
05:03:48 <DaleStan> And OpenTTD doesn't include TTDPatch, and never has.,
05:04:05 <mynetdude> errr let me quote the site then
05:04:29 <DaleStan> Nope. Whatever you think it says, Open does not include Patch any more than Windows includes Linux.
05:04:41 <Celestar> they both share features
05:04:42 <mynetdude> oic... there are "ttdpatch" features IN ottd but ttdpatch is not in ottd... that makes sense
05:04:51 <Celestar> just like windows and linux share features
05:05:09 <Celestar> like the "double-click", which some boneheaded individuals would like to put a patent on
05:06:13 <Celestar> but as most poticians only know "the internet" from print-outs ...
05:06:16 <mynetdude> some bonehead sued eBay for something like that... they sued eBay because of the "Buy It Now" feature
05:12:40 <Celestar> this is about as intelligent and one car making suing the other because the cars share the "headlight" feature
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05:19:38 <mynetdude> Celestar good \way to put it
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06:06:09 <mynetdude> interesting... anyway bbl
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06:36:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
06:40:07 <yorick> not much servers using 0.6.1-RC
06:40:10 <DorpsGek> yorick: Servers online: 145; Running version 0.6.0 (latest): 78; Clients online: 31
06:44:19 <Bjarni> 145 servers and 31 clients
06:44:30 <Bjarni> that's a bad server/client radio
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06:45:55 <yorick> there are just too many servers
06:46:22 <ln> lim[t -> ∞] online(Bjarni) = 24 h
06:46:25 <Sionide> it's 8 in the morning in the UK and like... 3am ish in the US
06:46:32 <yorick> there is no time where each server has at least one client
06:46:42 <yorick> yes, it gets to somewhere around 90
06:46:55 <peter1138> at least there are empty servers to play on ;)
06:47:05 * yorick should poll every hour and make a graph
06:47:07 <Bjarni> I don't see a problem either
06:47:11 <Tefad> ln: where's your t dependency?
06:47:52 <peter1138> i tried playing freeciv the other day... there were two servers, both with games running
06:47:55 <peter1138> (or something like that)
06:49:13 <yorick> :D every time I refresh the servers.openttd.org page, I get other info
06:49:20 <yorick> 78 of the 145 servers online are using version 0.6.0 (latest stable)
06:49:45 <yorick> Currently there are 32 clients online
06:50:23 <yorick> no graphing idea allowed :(
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06:54:07 <MrDowntempo> is there a patch or something I can use to make all the interface elements bigger?
06:54:32 <yorick> but you could try to switch dpi
06:54:51 <yorick> or just buy a bigger monitor
06:55:08 <MrDowntempo> I'm running openttd on an n800. Its a 800x480 screen.
06:55:34 <peter1138> no, because if they were bigger they wouldn't fit
06:55:45 <peter1138> just get a magnifying glass
06:55:57 <MrDowntempo> It is hires for the size it is, it makes clicking on the close icons and other various buttons kinda difficult
06:56:23 <MrDowntempo> sometimes I miss and I place random chunks of railroad track around the map =)
06:56:28 <yorick> what did you expect from running openttd on such a device?
06:57:04 <MrDowntempo> Don't get me wrong, it runs great. It would just be a tad bit more usable if I could scale up some of the interface elements
06:57:40 <MrDowntempo> why wouldn't it fit?
06:57:53 <MrDowntempo> no menu takes up the whole screen
06:58:38 <MrDowntempo> and 800x480 Is bigger than the original games res. Didn't it originally only run at 640x480?
06:59:11 <yorick> it's been created to suit the nintendo ds
06:59:14 <peter1138> yes, of course it fits at 640x480
06:59:22 <peter1138> but it wouldn't fit it is was scaled up
06:59:47 <yorick> your touchscreen isn't precise enough, methinks
07:00:11 <MrDowntempo> thats possible, I may need to recalibrate it
07:01:39 <MrDowntempo> Here is a pic of openttd on the device
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07:03:09 <yorick> try decreasing the resolution
07:03:50 <MrDowntempo> Hmmm... don't think I can.
07:04:40 <MrDowntempo> I can't at least in the game options menu, it only lists 800x480
07:05:15 <yorick> no, you should try on the device's screen options
07:05:51 <MrDowntempo> It doesn't really have anything like that
07:06:35 <yorick> heh, the problem is that your device's screen has a 800x480 screen resolution on a very small screen
07:06:40 <yorick> openttd can't just change that
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07:22:31 <MrDowntempo> recalibrating did seeem to help a tad =) Maybe thats all I needed to do
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07:42:14 <peter1138> oh yes, copying 15GB from one drive to another will make the system slow :o
07:43:07 <peter1138> heh, how quaint... an LS-120 drive
07:47:57 <Tefad> ls120 drives are awesome
07:48:07 <Tefad> they read regular floppies too ; )
07:48:29 <peter1138> actually i was wrong, it's a zip 100
07:48:46 <peter1138> there were some ls120 drives here but i think they got binned years ago
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07:50:23 <peter1138> hehe, the days when several games fitted on a 1.44 disk
07:54:22 <Celestar> this seemed to have overwhelmed his comp :P
07:54:55 <mynetdude> yeah I liked zipdisks when they first came out
07:54:57 <Tefad> hehe decent speed though
07:55:04 <mynetdude> wished they would increase the data volume it could hold
07:55:22 <mynetdude> the largest zipdisk capacity is 750MB which is 50MB more than a CDR
07:55:22 <Tefad> zip went up to 750 i think
07:55:32 <Tefad> 50MB less than a flaky CDR ; )
07:55:40 <mynetdude> I know, thats not big enough... there are plenty of other media in the GB range
07:55:42 <yorick> get DVD's, you idiots!
07:55:51 <Tefad> (there's a way to encode using less recovery data)
07:55:55 <mynetdude> um, 50MB LESS? no, MORE
07:56:17 <mynetdude> CDRs hold 700MB, zipdisks hold 750MB
07:56:37 <mynetdude> but alas... DVDs are the way to go
07:56:54 <Celestar> you can get 800MB CDRs
07:56:59 <mynetdude> but I don't see any reason to use DVDs if I can't fill the whole 4.7GB or 8.5 for DL
07:57:00 <Celestar> they work reasonably well
07:57:08 <mynetdude> Celestar really? I haven't seen any
07:57:24 <mynetdude> are they relatively new?
07:58:48 <mynetdude> well CDRs are going away over time anyway
07:59:02 <yorick> ...libiconv depends on gettext and gettext depends on libiconv }|
07:59:26 <mynetdude> with DVDs still being not so new but not so old, with the introduction of HD/BluRay CDRs are going out the door
07:59:58 <mynetdude> I still see ads for HD movies every now and then, but I also see BR ads just as well
08:00:15 <mynetdude> but you are right BR did win the standards
08:00:21 <Tefad> yup, they're trying to sell the remaining stock at a profit.
08:00:51 <Tefad> then all the HD-DVD gear gets dumped on big lots and wal-mart.
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08:01:22 <Tefad> (or your country's equivalence)
08:01:30 <mynetdude> not the walmart part, but the big lots
08:01:44 <mynetdude> well, dumps, incinerators, etc
08:01:48 <mynetdude> because it creates more waste
08:01:57 <Tefad> do you know what big lots is?
08:02:17 <mynetdude> thought you meant like the dumps kind of big lots
08:02:35 <mynetdude> but yes I know Big Lots and Walmart, but I never see any "real" electronics at big lots
08:02:38 <Tefad> big lots carries HDMI cables for like.. $13 btw.
08:02:59 <mynetdude> wow I've seen them sell for $30-$50 at other places
08:03:08 <Tefad> i've seen them sell for over $100.
08:03:14 <mynetdude> probably can get 'em on ebay for $10-$15
08:03:50 <mynetdude> I haven't seen them go for $100 here in this area but I have heard them sell much higher than $50
08:03:57 <mynetdude> at least not that brand anyway
08:04:06 <mynetdude> don't know anyone who carries that brand down here
08:05:47 <Tefad> by no means is moster a horrible brand for quality
08:05:59 <Tefad> it's just their crap is marked way way up and way over-hyped
08:06:31 <Tefad> they go as far as connecting noise generators up to demo units and have toggle switches to simulate "real" output from moster brand cable and "other" cable.
08:06:50 <mynetdude> I've seen the Monster brand, but I don't know enough about it... its like buying HP... all super marked up cuz of the brand
08:07:14 <Tefad> the price is totally crap
08:07:32 <Tefad> if i find something monster brand at reasonable price i'll buy it
08:07:43 <Tefad> usually second hand or at a salvage store though : )
08:09:56 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 1.60442084111
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08:12:07 <yorick> g:\bottd\bottd\mingw\bin\windres.exe: ./../windows/libiconv.rc:6: syntax error
08:12:07 <yorick> make[1]: *** [libiconv.res] Error 1
08:12:12 <Bjarni> <mynetdude> but alas... DVDs are the way to go <-- or HDs.... but putting all your data on a single HD isn't as reliable as spreading it on several DVDs
08:12:34 <Alberth> @calc ( 11178 / 56 ) / ( 6967 / 76 )
08:12:34 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 2.17742828436
08:12:49 <Bjarni> but HDs has a decent price/GB compared to optical drives
08:14:37 <mynetdude> never said anything about putting any data on HD, I don't see how putting data on a single HD is more unreliable thats like saying putting data on a single DVD is less reliable than multiple CDRs
08:15:34 <mynetdude> lolz if you think so... then everything else is a joke, putting your data on a single SD card, MMC, whatever is all just unreliable so you might as well not store anything
08:15:38 <Roest> uh mynetude i suggest a beginners course in logic
08:16:18 <mynetdude> whatever you say, I suggest you take a beginner's course in waste reduction and desk organization
08:17:05 <Roest> acutally i agree on the desk organization, my desk is a mess
08:17:17 *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
08:17:38 <mynetdude|Away> Roest mine was until this cute girl cleaned it all
08:17:38 <Celestar> any desk where a reasonable amount of actual work is done is a mess
08:17:42 <mynetdude|Away> now I can't find anything
08:17:59 <Celestar> otherwise it's just a showoff "Look I have a clean desk"
08:18:21 <mynetdude|Away> I prefer to have a clean desk mind you
08:18:36 <mynetdude|Away> but anywayz another day is coming, cya
08:18:37 <Noldo> if those who have messy desk have messy mind I have to wonder if it also applies to those that have empty desk
08:18:44 <peter1138> if i have a clean desk i just sit there admiring it
08:19:01 <peter1138> only when it's really mess does real work happen
08:19:16 <Alberth> and then your boss comes along polluting it with new work :P
08:19:24 <Roest> Noldo messy mind or dirty mind? ^^
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08:49:08 <DorpsGek> yorick: Commit by rubidium :: r7561 /trunk (7 files) (2006-12-26 12:56:48 UTC)
08:49:09 <DorpsGek> yorick: -Fix (FS#431): core and (patches) GUI were not in-sync with respect to autorenew settings. This is only a temporary fix, as the definite fix needs to move the autorenew settings to a per-company settings window.
08:49:16 <Roest> that almost sounds like a professional business audit
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08:55:09 <teeg> Celestar: I prefer to keep my physical desk clean
08:55:20 <teeg> my mental/computorial desk, however...
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09:20:36 <LordAzamath> I saw some noobs in forums asking desperatly for help
09:20:48 <LordAzamath> but I don't feel like helping them :D
09:21:08 <yorick> *keep being here* *keep being here* *keep being here*
09:21:27 <LordAzamath> ok.. I'll be here.. but that means I can't join #?
09:21:30 <yorick> Alberth: *don't tell me what to do* *don't tell me what do do*
09:21:54 <yorick> you should be able to :S
09:22:19 <LordAzamath> I'm like torn apart then.. If I'm on both channels on the same time
09:22:36 <yorick> *keep being on this server*
09:23:29 <LordAzamath> yorick, I can also leave all channels and just be online on this server ;D
09:24:40 <Roest> my work output so far this morning: added 3 lines of code, changed 4 lines
09:25:02 <Roest> and it's not doing what it's supposed to do
09:25:11 <yorick> good, for a blind person :)
09:25:48 <LordAzamath> then it won't hurt when I stab you in the eyes?
09:26:03 * LordAzamath stabs roest in the eyes
09:26:12 <teeg> <tasteless>well, he won't see it coming...</tasteless>
09:26:18 <Roest> ouch, blind doesnt mean i dont feel anything
09:26:32 <LordAzamath> how do you see what we're writing? :o
09:26:38 <LordAzamath> youlied all the time, Ro
09:26:49 <Roest> computer reads it, stupid
09:27:04 <Roest> in what year do you live
09:27:37 <LordAzamath> 1240 AD. Corinth has finished building SS Structural
09:28:38 <LordAzamath> doesn't a word Civilization mean anything to you?
09:29:04 <LordAzamath> There are more good old games than TT :P
09:29:10 <Roest> no it just explains your lack of knowledge about common technology
09:29:31 <LordAzamath> It's kinda useless
09:29:42 <Roest> yea freeciv kinda sucks
09:29:47 <LordAzamath> onl wayto survive is to only rush cities
09:30:15 <LordAzamath> not like civ 1 for example.. I did a OCC yestrday with civ1
09:30:22 <Roest> there's a freecol, but UI is bad as well
09:30:36 <LordAzamath> spaceship was sent like.. in 1920 :P
09:30:47 <LordAzamath> The city was 33 in size..
09:30:59 <LordAzamath> and all buildings and wonders built
09:31:12 <LordAzamath> other civs didn't have ay wonders
09:31:33 <LordAzamath> occ is one city challege
09:31:58 <LordAzamath> and then I ofcourse play MTA:SA :P
09:32:32 <LordAzamath> Multi Theft Auto: San Andreas :P
09:32:45 <LordAzamath> san andreas multiplayer
09:32:46 <Roest> san andreas is the worst of the series
09:33:21 <Roest> i never really got into it, VC was sooooooooooo good
09:33:55 <LordAzamath> roest, it doesn't appeal at start witha ll that black gangsta stuff.. but it's fun.. especially in mp
09:34:13 <Roest> and they did something to the camera i never got used to
09:34:49 <Roest> yea you always had to manually correct the camera
09:35:36 * teeg salivates at the thought of GTA:IV
09:35:44 <SmatZ> GTA is too cruel for me
09:36:24 <SmatZ> I don't like shooting civilians
09:36:27 <teeg> I prefer to run them over with a car. it's just a pity the car'll catch on fire after a while :(
09:36:30 <LordAzamath> in openttd you can ram busses with trains
09:36:45 <LordAzamath> SmatZ: It's just a game
09:36:52 <SpComb> SmatZ: or you can avoid doing that
09:37:06 <teeg> don't forget the coffee mod
09:37:15 <SpComb> it's fun doing the taxi missions and trying not to bump your car into anything
09:37:21 <teeg> where you can help replace those you gunned down or ran over :P
09:37:25 <SpComb> (talking about GTA III)
09:37:33 <Roest> gta4 is still far away for the PC
09:37:37 <LordAzamath> (Talking about SA)
09:38:03 <Roest> but then i read a preview of mafia2 this weekend
09:38:14 <LordAzamath> It's out for xbox I already know
09:38:19 <teeg> won't really matter that much, since I'll probably actually buy it on the 360
09:38:34 <LordAzamath> And they don't want to lose computer market
09:38:38 <teeg> I don't really think they get the controlling interface right when they port it over to the PC
09:39:04 <teeg> or, at least they didn't get it 100% right in GTA3 in my opinion
09:39:53 <teeg> I don't really care all that much though, I'm just waiting to see what people'll get their knockers in a twist over this time
09:39:58 <LordAzamath> I don't get there what I'm supposed to do...
09:40:07 <teeg> last time it was the coffee mod which wasn't really enabled by default, but which they still got sued over
09:40:09 <SpComb> GTA3's PC-joystick is ridiculous
09:41:10 <LordAzamath> teeg.. not enabled byt default?.. Not only default.. There was no way of enabling it othere than modifying the files, which was forbidden IIRC
09:41:57 <LordAzamath> So there was no legal way of getting to know of the hot coffe issue at all
09:42:21 <teeg> except for when these soccer mums decided to sue and make a big issue of it all
09:42:29 <teeg> I never would even have known about it if they hadn't
09:43:15 <LordAzamath> I even don't know what that was all about :P
09:43:30 <LordAzamath> Only something about mbanging his gfriends, right?
09:43:36 <teeg> and hell, I can find better porn in 5 minutes if that's the problem, so if I'd been the producers of GTA, I'd've told them to get fucked
09:49:18 <Celestar> the mySQL5.0 reference manual is 2065 pages
09:50:36 <teeg> I didn't know mysql had that much to document
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09:53:32 <Gekz> teeg: you need all the information on how to stop sql injections as possible lolol
09:54:27 <teeg> that's simple, just don't use PHP, move over to Perl, DBI and use prepare/execute :P
09:55:11 <Gekz> and you want to convert OpenTTD to C++
09:55:14 <Gekz> you just lost all my respect
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09:55:54 <teeg> What? You're not one of those who think Perl "looks like line noise", do you?
09:56:04 <Celestar> teeg: mysql is a pretty good DB imho
09:56:34 <Gekz> teeg: not only do I think it, I know it
09:56:44 <Celestar> teeg: not really for large databases, but for medium sized ones (up to something like several thousand queries per second)
09:57:24 <teeg> Celestar: except it doesn't take data integrity as seriously as it should do, and transactions took forever to implement, and once it was implemented it wasn't even enabled for subqueries. But it's not a BAD one, I'm just ripping on it for the sake of doing so. I use it in a few areas myself for my own use
09:57:35 <teeg> (I could've used postgres instead, but I can't be bothered with porting)
09:58:01 <Celestar> I haven'T used postgreSQL a lot, is it better?
09:58:03 <teeg> Gekz: heh. I didn't much like the whitespace part of it, it feels like handcuffs
09:58:14 <Gekz> whats the difference between postgre and my?
09:58:30 <peter1138> postgresql is a lot nicer
09:59:13 <teeg> Celestar: supposedly, yes. better at keeping data integrity and has more of the "enterprisey" features mysql doesn't have (or didn't have last I looked at it)
09:59:44 <peter1138> mysql is only open source begrudgingly now, or someushc
10:02:15 <teeg> peter1138: hasn't it always been "open"? i.e. an opensource license for private use, and if you want to use it to make money you have to pay for it ... or is it just if you also want the support?
10:03:24 <peter1138> well it's gpl, so you don't have to pay money to use it
10:04:35 <Gekz> teeg: I'm not saying perl is inherently linenoisy, but it can be, and usually is
10:04:39 <Gekz> I can write readable perl code
10:04:53 <yorick> but can the interpreter?
10:04:55 <Gekz> but still, the sigil shit is ugly
10:05:26 <yorick> "You'll ruin my theories!"?
10:07:14 <Gekz> teeg: sigil-based variablesa
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10:16:25 <Celestar> I love it. mkdir tmp/ .. file exists. mkdir temp/ ... file exists, mkdir TMP/ ... file exists mkdir TEMP/ .. file exists. DAMNIT
10:16:42 <teeg> mkdir temp_HLUGAHLGAHGLUAHGLUHGLHG
10:18:36 <teeg> my temp dirs are usually uu or uuu or uuuu etc.
10:19:45 <Celestar> Noldo: I have foo, bar and qux as well
10:21:26 <teeg> funniest situation I've been in was when I figured out I'd overdone the uu thing... I had files or variables named all the way up to uuuuuuu I think. that's when I gave up and cleaned up the homedir "a bit"
10:22:01 *** pm|away is now known as planetmaker
10:22:11 <yorick> my overflowsafe just overflowed }|
10:23:12 <Alberth> the safe was too small
10:24:36 <yorick> the new paxdest is also dying
10:24:44 <yorick> the creator disappeared :(
10:26:19 <peter1138> Celestar, mktmp? ;)
10:27:01 <Celestar> planetmaker: got a Q for you
10:27:14 <planetmaker> got an A for you :)
10:27:34 * planetmaker can answer all questions.
10:27:34 <Celestar> how abundant is Li in the Earth's crust and the solar system (inner)
10:27:50 * planetmaker ponders wether the answers are correct though ;)
10:28:06 <planetmaker> Celestar: hm... not very.
10:28:13 <Alberth> there is no way he can check this one :)
10:28:23 <Celestar> Alberth: he's the expert in that field
10:28:34 <Roest> he makes them after all
10:28:41 <Celestar> planetmaker: not very meaning?
10:28:57 <Alberth> euh, yeh the name should have tipped me off
10:29:54 <Celestar> planetmaker: nvm I found it
10:29:59 <planetmaker> IIRC about 4...6 orders of magnitude less abundant than silicon.
10:30:02 <Celestar> 18ppm in crustal rocks
10:31:09 <Celestar> (well they write 272200ppm but that's kind of bullshit)
10:31:22 <planetmaker> so I was correct :)
10:32:02 <Celestar> the question is ... what's the total mass of crustal rocks on the planet? :)
10:32:06 <planetmaker> astrophysicists care only about orders of magnitude anyway :)
10:32:23 <planetmaker> only the crust? or the mantle?
10:32:35 <Celestar> 1% of Earths total mass?
10:32:58 <planetmaker> 10km shell of r=6700km at 4000kg/m^3.
10:33:07 <planetmaker> total mass earth = 6*10^24kg
10:33:32 * planetmaker is too lazy to do the math right now. yeah, 6370km
10:33:58 <Celestar> if you assume 10km it's around 10^19 kg
10:34:14 <planetmaker> not much :). But reasonable.
10:34:28 <Celestar> so about 4x10^11 kg Li
10:34:29 <planetmaker> it's just a tiny sphere in comparison
10:34:54 <planetmaker> still: much considering the weight of an accumulator
10:35:14 <Celestar> planetmaker: the question is: could you power the worldwide fleet of cars on Li?
10:35:36 <planetmaker> ^^ I assumed already this question behind it :)
10:35:52 <Celestar> because I had a little disagreement earlier
10:36:13 <planetmaker> What's the typical specific energy density of an accumulator in J/kg(Li)
10:36:39 <Celestar> currently we can go for about 0.5MJ/kg
10:36:56 <Celestar> source indicate that this can be at least 5 folded in the next two decades
10:37:05 <Celestar> so let's assume 2MJ/kg
10:37:25 <Celestar> a normal car needs about 200MJ energy storage to be reasonably usable
10:37:27 <planetmaker> a typical car is assumed as 50kW.
10:37:37 <Celestar> planetmaker: much less.
10:37:48 <teeg> Celestar: what do you define as "reasonably usable"? 100-200km?
10:37:48 <planetmaker> right, 50kW is max power.
10:38:08 <Celestar> teeg: 400-600 miles usable range as speeds up to 90mph.
10:38:10 <planetmaker> with 200km it's usable IMO. 100k is too little
10:38:34 <Celestar> teeg: a modern 1-series BMW can go 120km/h at below 20kW
10:38:35 <planetmaker> 500km is currently standard (or so)
10:39:09 <DorpsGek> yorick: Commit by belugas :: r12759 trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp (2008-04-18 03:17:22 UTC)
10:39:11 <DorpsGek> yorick: -Fix(r12358): There is no need to mask callback result for pre-version7 since CBID_INDTILE_SHAPE_CHECK (cb2F) is really 15 bits.
10:39:24 <Celestar> planetmaker: just assume a 100kg battery pack for a car
10:39:25 <planetmaker> Okay, let's assume 25kW, it's easy math then. 2MJ/kg, 25kW.
10:40:26 <planetmaker> 250 000 000J / 25 000W = 10000s = 3h = 300km at 100km/h
10:40:46 <Celestar> at 100km/h the energy usage is much lower :)
10:41:03 <teeg> 300km is still 150km short of my parents' house, so that wouldn't work for me :P
10:41:05 <Celestar> (only 70%, so about 14kw)
10:41:07 <planetmaker> 100kg * 2MJ = 250MJ. ... ok 360km
10:41:15 <Celestar> planetmaker: yeah, about.
10:41:18 <teeg> I would expect at least 500km range if I were to consider one
10:41:26 <teeg> (otherwise it'd just be an inter-city car)
10:41:31 <Celestar> teeg: we'll have that in about 10-15 years
10:41:46 <Celestar> planetmaker: so where are we stuck?
10:42:16 <planetmaker> the mass of li needed to run all cars. How many cars in the world? 40M in Germany.
10:42:17 <teeg> at that point I might consider swapping my S2 for one, but until we do reach that point, and the car can be "refuelled" within a few minutes, good luck
10:42:33 <Celestar> planetmaker: for the future, assume 4 billion I'd say
10:43:08 <planetmaker> na, 4 billion is too much. but let's start with 1 billion. Easy math :)
10:43:44 <planetmaker> 10^9 * 100kg = 10^11kg :). But Li content of the accumulator is how many percent?
10:43:57 <Celestar> but I'm looking it up
10:44:05 <Roest> cool i just made my 3 lines of code work, lesson learned: never expect implicit casts
10:44:18 <planetmaker> let's be pessimistic here, then we're at 10 billion kg.
10:44:46 <planetmaker> = 10% of crustal content... which is MUCH
10:45:04 <Celestar> planetmaker: a typical 7.5Wh Li-Ion cell has 600 milligrams
10:45:10 <planetmaker> Hm... maybe Li is enriched in the crust...
10:45:16 <Celestar> planetmaker: but that's around 0.2MJ/kg technology
10:45:20 <planetmaker> and how much does it weigh, Celestar
10:46:07 <planetmaker> come to think of it, Li will be enriched in the crust...
10:46:31 <planetmaker> it's light weight and heavy elements sunk down to the earth's core tendentially...
10:46:36 <Celestar> so 7.5Wh thats 0.027MJ/600milligramns
10:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> "How many cars in the world?" <- doctor who said 800M ;)
10:47:17 <Celestar> 45MJ/kg is pretty much the energy content of Diesel.
10:47:31 <planetmaker> Celestar: 7.5Wh / 600 grams, right?
10:47:39 <Celestar> planetmaker: 600 milligrams
10:47:47 <planetmaker> Then you lost some powers...
10:48:37 <planetmaker> 0.00005 MJ/ milligram = 0.05 MJ/gram. you were right :)
10:48:53 <Celestar> planetmaker: however, crude oil can be fired only once
10:49:01 <Celestar> Li-Ion batteries can be recharged
10:49:19 <teeg> Celestar: that energy has to be produced from somewhere though. :P
10:49:20 <Celestar> I _assume_ we have more Li in the Earth's crust than crude Oil
10:49:27 <Celestar> teeg: that's currently not the question
10:49:29 <planetmaker> But! Accumulators are not SOURCE of energy while crude oil IS a source
10:49:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, but fission energy is ;)
10:50:06 <planetmaker> you want fusion :).
10:50:08 <Celestar> the question is: "Do we have enough Lithium in the Earth's crust to power the worldwide fleet of cars on Li-Ion batteries"
10:50:13 <Celestar> planetmaker: yes, but D-He(3) please
10:50:25 <planetmaker> T is also acceptable
10:50:32 <Celestar> planetmaker: for the first step ,yes
10:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> planetmaker: yes, but in a useable amount within the next 50 years?
10:50:41 <Celestar> but making T requires Li, which is not good
10:50:43 <teeg> Celestar: heh. having enough lithium to start with would be a good start, yes
10:51:03 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause3: sure. As the last 50 years: "in 50 years we'll have working fusion plants" ;)
10:51:36 <Celestar> planetmaker: it's no longer 50 years.
10:51:48 <planetmaker> Celestar: back to topic "enough Li?", it may just be enough...
10:51:56 <planetmaker> Celestar: did that change? :)
10:52:08 <Celestar> planetmaker: apparently. But we can mine it from NEOs for example
10:52:21 <Celestar> planetmaker: the question is what do you define as a working fusion power plant
10:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> i said "useable", not "working"...
10:52:46 <yorick> and give power, batteries, and waste
10:52:48 <Vikthor> planetmaker: But we have fusion plants, now they just don't produce any usable energy ;)
10:52:51 <Celestar> ITER will be a working fusion plant
10:53:10 <Celestar> usable could be finished in the late 2030s or early 2040s
10:53:14 <yorick> which should go to the weapons factory]
10:53:20 <planetmaker> fusion plant = device which has a net energy output by increasing the atomic weight of its fuel and decreasing the numbers of nuclei doing so.
10:53:28 <Celestar> yorick: nuclear fusion power plants do not make nuclear waste
10:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> i.e. give out significant share of total produced engergy
10:53:36 <Celestar> planetmaker: ok we already had that in 1996
10:53:52 <Celestar> planetmaker: the JET met your description for around 1.6 seconds
10:53:54 <planetmaker> Celestar: they are only now working on a prototype which shall show the practicability of fusion. It will be by no means a source of energy
10:54:09 <planetmaker> Celestar: not the net energy.
10:54:29 <Celestar> for a USABLE power plant, you need a Q of at least 15
10:55:06 <Celestar> because of losses and shit
10:55:26 <planetmaker> Recently in a talk from one of the project co-ordinators of the Stellarator in Greifswald (and Wendelstein-X,...) he said that they did not produce net energy. 20% output of input
10:55:39 <Celestar> planetmaker: oh I'm sorry. It had a Q of 0.7
10:55:40 <planetmaker> Nevertheless they HAVE fusion.
10:56:09 <Celestar> JT-60 claimed a Q of 1.25
10:56:11 <planetmaker> And only over very short periods of time...
10:56:25 <planetmaker> So nothing the current power grid could use much...
10:56:39 <Celestar> planetmaker: ITER will have a Q of 10, over prolonged (minutes) periods of time
10:56:45 <planetmaker> Actually, interesting side not: they heat the plasma with microwaves.
10:56:51 <Celestar> by the end of the next decade
10:57:13 <planetmaker> ... the "fünf minuten terine" will be done in their ray within 10 Milliseconds :)
10:57:31 <planetmaker> 5*10MW microwave :)
10:57:41 <Celestar> and ITER will have 500MW of NET fusion power output
10:57:58 <Celestar> "TER was originally an acronym for International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor, but that title was dropped due to the negative popular connotation of "thermonuclear," especially when in conjunction with "experimental"."
10:58:04 <Celestar> I love the last part
10:58:30 <planetmaker> just use the latin meaning and you know the purpose of "iter" :)
10:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> haha, haven't seen that one yet ;)
10:59:55 <Celestar> planetmaker: but ITER will be a fully functioning fusion device. It'll not produce energy, since there's no plan to attach a steam turbine to it at the present time
11:00:40 <planetmaker> the attachment of the turbine also isn't the point, but the net heat dissipation which might be used.
11:00:55 <Celestar> it might, but it's not planned to
11:01:02 <planetmaker> They've problems with contamination of their plasma, though...
11:01:05 <Celestar> ITER's point is not to produce usable energy
11:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's the point of prototypes... they are not supposed to be used for something meaningful
11:01:18 <planetmaker> ^^ yes. but to show that they could
11:01:35 <planetmaker> or rather: that the design of the coils will do.
11:01:44 <Celestar> but to show that it works and develop procedures and technology for a full-scale economic power plants
11:01:51 <planetmaker> which is the most difficult part of all.
11:01:53 <Celestar> I still prefer the Stellarator idea however
11:02:06 <planetmaker> they all have pros and cons.
11:03:08 <Celestar> it's 13:03. what's the pros and cons of going home?
11:03:14 <planetmaker> And the biggest problem is the neutron flux and its influence on the magnetic containment.
11:03:27 <planetmaker> 100% stay here, 0% go. :S
11:03:48 <planetmaker> have to take an exam on a student. Question: will I be mean ? ;)
11:04:16 <Celestar> I wonder whether we should first try to develop interplanetary fusion drives and make reactors later
11:04:16 <planetmaker> he was just an annoyance :P
11:04:22 <Celestar> the drives are easier to build
11:04:33 <Celestar> you don't need to contain the plasma that much
11:04:37 <planetmaker> ^ no need for environmental protection, free cooling.
11:04:44 <Celestar> because you want to eject it anyway ;)
11:05:07 <planetmaker> You'll have to have the same containment though. Just different geometry.
11:05:21 <planetmaker> ...magnetic bottle...
11:05:25 <Celestar> D-He fusion drives can reasonably accelerate a space ship to noticable fractions of c
11:05:42 <planetmaker> well... ion drives already work.
11:05:49 <Celestar> with noticable I mean more than 0.05
11:06:03 <Celestar> even 0.1 could be doable
11:06:15 <planetmaker> but the thrust will be very low for these kind of drives.
11:06:21 <Celestar> not for fusion drives
11:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> would still take 40 years to reach the next star
11:06:43 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: but I'm talking interplanetary, not interstellar for the time being
11:06:51 <planetmaker> Celestar: then you need a HUGE fusion device because you need a high mass throughput.
11:07:06 <Celestar> planetmaker: you don't need a very high mass throughput
11:07:19 <Celestar> planetmaker: just assume a 1000t starship and you want an acceleration of 0.1g
11:07:27 <Celestar> (which is quite a lot)
11:07:43 <planetmaker> Which is an order of magnitude too little to lift of.
11:07:46 <Celestar> you need 1 million newtons
11:07:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> the main problem with accelerating a spaceship that you also have to decelerate it somehow
11:08:01 <Celestar> fusion drives are not ment to lift off
11:08:25 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: yes, hence the 0.05-0.1 restriction, without breaking (probes), twice the velocity is possible
11:09:24 <Celestar> so what \dot m do we need?
11:10:27 <Celestar> assuming a propusive efficiency of 20% (very low, SSMEs have around 96%), we need 1.8kg/sec for that 0.1g
11:10:34 <planetmaker> you are rather interested in d/dt m / M0
11:10:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> our math teacher once wanted to derive the "rocket equation" with us once... it was a total mess :p
11:10:49 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: it takes FOUR DAMN lines
11:11:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, if you know physics ;)
11:11:30 <Celestar> it's very very basic conversation of momentum :P
11:11:37 <Celestar> planetmaker: I know the (maximum) exhaust velocity :)
11:12:26 <Celestar> planetmaker: the bigger problem is: how large does a fusion drive need to be to heat 1.8kg(!!) of He(3)-D gas per second?
11:12:36 <planetmaker> Celestar: a few 10 to max 100 km/s.
11:13:04 <Celestar> we're not talking Ion drives
11:13:19 <Celestar> we're talking fusion drives (i.e. the plasma is directly ejected into space)
11:13:21 * Roest must resist making sarcastic replies
11:13:38 <Celestar> 0.088c for He(3)-D that is
11:13:45 <Celestar> D-T is significantly lower
11:13:54 <planetmaker> 0.088 * 300000 km/s = 26 000 km/s hm...
11:14:19 <planetmaker> Roest: feel free :P
11:14:20 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: basically the rocket equation is: M_s/M_e = exp (delta_v/c);
11:14:48 <Celestar> where M_s and M_e are the masses of the vehicle at engine cutoff and at engine ignition
11:15:04 <Roest> planetmaker: not here, on the forums
11:15:07 <Celestar> delta_v is the velocity change you want (or rather the speed change you want)
11:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, and for multi-level rockets? ;)
11:15:19 <Celestar> and c is the exhaust velocity of the engine
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11:15:31 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: then you just apply that equation for each stage separately, duh
11:15:37 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12914 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix: Game crash when a spectator/server tried to show an engine with no owner when a NewGRF requested a specific variable.
11:15:40 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause3: it's quite unprobable to have a multi-stage fusion drive.
11:15:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> the point was not getting to the equation, but setting up the differential equations to solve
11:16:28 <Celestar> the change in impulse equals the mass flow times the exhaust velocity
11:16:53 <Celestar> that's the differential equation to solve
11:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> you are thinking too easy ;)
11:17:16 <planetmaker> [13:09] <Celestar> F=\dot m * v <-- we were there a few minutes ago :P
11:17:27 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: I'm not.
11:17:35 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: just what is \dot p?
11:17:49 <Celestar> \dot p = \dot m * v + \dot v * m
11:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway... i have more important things to do right now
11:18:44 * Celestar goes back to his differential equations
11:19:10 * teeg goes back to fixing missing database content :(
11:19:37 * Eddi|zuHause3 goes back to tree traversion
11:19:40 * planetmaker goes back to his report to write
11:20:02 <planetmaker> ^^ that's what it is about :)
11:21:19 * Celestar thinks planetmaker and he is doing basically the same
11:21:32 * planetmaker thinks that Celestar might be correct.
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11:22:05 <Celestar> We have solve the set of conservation equations (mass, species, energy, momentum, angular momentum) for a large system. Only the source terms differ :P
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11:24:42 <planetmaker> :) Yeah. Sometimes I do that (though seldom). I measure :)
11:25:06 <Celestar> I have people who measure (=
11:25:46 * planetmaker analyses and processes data mostly though.
11:26:10 <Celestar> that's what's coming up next week
11:26:15 <planetmaker> Small tasks may be deligated to bachelor students :P
11:26:16 <Celestar> 1TB of data to process :S
11:26:28 <planetmaker> ^^ yeah. I've got 3 hd here...
11:26:41 <Celestar> we only have one RAID array with 15TB (=
11:27:08 <planetmaker> we have to care about our computers ourselves. Nothing centralized.
11:27:17 <Celestar> well, I take care about the comps
11:27:30 <Celestar> I passed the job onto someone less competent :S
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11:27:41 <Celestar> so I have a 1TB hdd on my desk as a personal backup
11:28:44 <planetmaker> I can't :S. But such disk is also present here on the desk...
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11:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> what's a reasonable price for a 1TB HDD currently?
11:35:32 <Celestar> you can get 750GB for 89 EUR meanwhile ... totally nuts :P
11:36:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i don't think 180€ is in my budget right now
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11:42:58 <Alberth> has town grow rate decreased since 0.5.3RC2?
11:43:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> there are "cities" now
11:47:41 <Alberth> I've been running a 0.5.3RC2 and rev12909 for a year in parallel (1 steam train running a passenger service), and I see a 150 people difference (585 vs 741) in one town and a neglectible difference in the other town (471 vs 475)
11:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> 2 towns hardly make up a representative statistics ;)
11:49:20 <Celestar> unless you start with the same random seed
11:49:55 <SmatZ> you have the same random seed after loading a game
11:50:12 <Alberth> yeh, but from the same save game, already 150/600=25% difference in less than a year
11:50:53 <Alberth> SmatZ: I'd expect so, although towns are not exactly the same any more
11:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but the random decisions are different, because the code is different [desync]
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13:45:23 <Alberth> I have a DifficultGameWindow object at my screen!!
13:45:39 <Alberth> a derived class of Window
13:46:14 <SmatZ> Alberth: how do you plan to implement "FindWindowByID"?
13:46:51 <SmatZ> like "find window of type vehicle view with vehicle ID 33"
13:47:00 <Alberth> atm, a window still has an ID and window_number
13:47:15 <Alberth> I don't think we should remove those
13:48:33 <Belugas> 1) cb 37 extra code : seems that my merory is playing me tricks
13:48:34 <Alberth> Smatz: we may be able to find them with dynamic_cast<> if you really want
13:48:39 <Belugas> i though it was altready there
13:48:56 <SmatZ> Alberth: really? I really do not want :)
13:49:02 <Belugas> DaleStan: I saw coding been done, but somehow, it never reached trunk
13:49:23 <Belugas> i THINK it was Frosch who wrote it,
13:49:35 <SmatZ> Alberth: like testing if dynamic_cast throws an exception? (or how it works)
13:49:36 <Alberth> Smatz: but that's more appropiate for hacky stuff like 'wndproc == BuildRailToolBar' checks ;)
13:49:54 <Belugas> DaleStan: but rightr now, he's away for a few days/weeks. So i cannot tell you about it,.
13:49:55 <Alberth> dynamic testing returns NULL on failure
13:50:21 <Belugas> DaleStan: "I very much want to add the definition that bits 8..15 of CB37 are set to 02 for the industry directory window." Could you refresh my mind? does not reing a bell
13:50:44 <SmatZ> ah, that's not that bad... what about typeof? would it be useable there? and is it supported by all compilers used to compile OTTD? (I think it is not part of standard)
13:51:16 <DaleStan> Argh. "Bits 8..15 *of var 18* in CB 37" Sorry.
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13:51:42 <Alberth> what does typeof do? (never heard of it)
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13:52:32 <peter1138> it lets you compare types
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13:53:29 <DaleStan> The reason I don't want to reuse 01 for the industry directory window is that, with the extra-parameter-code, the two locations have different limits on the size of the additional parameters.
13:53:31 <Alberth> I have never found a need for that yet.
13:54:32 <DaleStan> class A; class B:A; class C:A; Then, if you're dealing with a bunch of pointers-to-A, you can find out whether the object is an A or a B or a C.
13:55:13 <Alberth> atm I am more worried about eliminating the 'custom' field, and trying to get stuff into trunk (which seems to have more or less come to a halt atm)
13:55:39 <Alberth> DaleStan: Isn't virtual supposed to abstract from that problem?
13:55:59 <Alberth> I do such stuff in Python, but that is a much more flexible language
13:58:28 <DaleStan> It's supposed to, yes, but it's not as powerful as checking types directly. You can't use a virtual to downcast, or to call a function that doesn't exist in the base class.
13:58:45 <Alberth> hmm, Stroustrup speaks of typeid(), which seems to do the same.
13:59:00 <Belugas> DaleStan, so, if i understand it correctly, you want to have cb37 00 for funding, 01 for industry vie and 02 for directory?
13:59:10 <hylje> they probably do, but with subtle differences varying with implementation
13:59:26 <DaleStan> That value in the second byte of var 18, yes.
14:00:42 <glx> it's a matter of adding some calls in the right place ;)
14:01:13 <Belugas> and changing IndustryDirectoryWndProc, of course :)
14:01:42 <Belugas> which reminds me i wanted to change tha window a little bit
14:02:07 <Belugas> the sorting/filterting buttons to be changed as dropdown or whatever...
14:04:10 <DaleStan> And how about the extra data in GRF registers code? Or is that the part that you said Frosch is doing/has done?
14:05:05 <Belugas> yes, exactly. Although i'm not 100% sure it was frosch, rather 99% :)
14:09:42 <DaleStan> Well then, I can wait. In fact, I discovered just yesterday that our DrawText function returns in a state such that calling it again will draw the second text as if it was concatenated to the first. So with some re-arranging, I might be able to make the nastiness go away. Dunno if your DrawText has the same feature, or if you'll need it.
14:11:00 <DaleStan> Oh ... but carriage returns might cause issues. I'll have to think more about that.
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14:22:45 <Onack> Has anyone here experienced game desync if you create a electriv locomotive with electric lines turned off with 1.6.1 RC1 64bit
14:23:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> provide a bug report with a way to reproduce it
14:24:06 <Onack> i get disconnected from server every time when i try to build electric engines
14:24:14 <Rubidium> and the source of 1.6.1-RC1 ;) would be nice to see how that looks ;)
14:24:59 <Roest> next weeks lotto numbers would be cool too
14:25:01 <peter1138> just play with electrified rail on ;)
14:25:28 <Onack> i got access to the server, but am i able to do it from console?
14:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think it is designed to be switched on again
14:26:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you can try list_patches
14:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> and then "patch <somethingwithelectrifiedrail> on"
14:26:50 <peter1138> it's not supposed to desync though
14:28:17 <Onack> had to work to get on the server again cause i set all my 26 trains to auto-update to the electric
14:28:49 <Onack> cant find anything in patches about electric
14:29:04 <Onack> ill ask my friend to fix it locally then
14:29:21 <Onack> and ill submit a report :)
14:29:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> "disable_elrails"
14:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> must be set off
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14:34:47 <Onack> And yea one more thing, even with outstanding rate in a city im not allowed to remove a square of road
14:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> there's a patch setting "remove additional road"
14:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> the original rule does not let you remove any piece of road if it is connected at both ends
14:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> which is _very_ limiting
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15:12:41 <yorick> what, at the moment, prevents YAPP from going into trunk (just curious), "certain (strict) guidelines to ensure stability and things like coding style"?
15:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> i can't answer that one
15:15:59 <yorick> obviously, it isn't the stability which prevents it, we even tested it on #openttdcoop.dev, and 0.6.1-RC1 is more unstable
15:16:37 <Roest> i think it's you supporting it, they hate you
15:16:45 <ooo4tom> i'd have to suggest the fact that it's almost 100revision, behind trunk
15:17:22 <SmatZ> yorick: 0.6.1-RC1 is unstable, or YAPP on 0.6.1-RC1 is unstable?
15:17:27 <ooo4tom> yapp_r12810 ------ trunk r12910
15:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is absolutely no reason, ooo4tom
15:17:37 <yorick> yes, but it still applies
15:17:53 <yorick> just some #includes can't find their way
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15:22:56 <Roest> it doesnt really complain about autoptrs
15:24:28 <yorick> as a workaround, I've just added it again
15:24:29 <Roest> i'm not sure if you read the boards lately ( like last 3 weeks) but i do compile every now and then
15:25:17 <Roest> but then i dont see any error messages since i'm blind and the computer ignores them
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15:26:47 <Roest> i have 97 downloads of my patchpack r12892, noone complained about yapp not working?
15:26:57 <yorick> hmm...maybe it can go without
15:27:07 <yorick> but the patch states it needs that file
15:27:24 <yorick> grr...it can just work without the file
15:27:30 <peter1138> yap shouldn't need autoptr
15:28:00 <yorick> line 1163 of the diff file
15:28:04 <dragonhorseboy> hey yorick - how're you anyhow? ^-^
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15:30:15 <yorick> !peter1138! dobackport 12914 && release 0.6.1-RC2!
15:31:46 <peter1138> there's another thing to be backported, though it's not urgent
15:34:06 * dragonhorseboy pokes yorick to a question of mine ;)
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15:36:21 <yorick> the conditional order jump should be more hidden
15:37:37 <dragonhorseboy> yorick....again...how're you? :p
15:38:01 <yorick> the same as the last time you asked
15:38:27 <teeg> dentists are your friend. if in doubt, ask for more anaesthetics.
15:38:42 <teeg> (worked dandy for me :P)
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15:41:40 <dragonhorseboy> lol fair enough yorick ;)
15:41:52 <dragonhorseboy> btw yorick you doing anyhow ^-^
15:42:02 <yorick> the same as the last time you asked
15:42:05 <peter1138> what's that in english?
15:42:38 <yorick> I'm still doing as I did the last time you were asking me.
15:42:54 <Roest> he might be really interested in how you're doing
15:43:02 <peter1138> yorick... how *ARE* you doing?
15:43:36 <Roest> beats me, i i'm german idon't understand the concept of smalltalk
15:43:39 <dragonhorseboy> yorick fair enough...btw want try a bit more of the game? I managed to build the highway almost over halfway before stopping low on cash .. could use some of your $$ :p
15:46:05 <Roest> The TTD-style orders don't work in your (excellent!) r12892m-patch; do you happen to know whether that's a general OTTD problem? I now get 'go non-stop to...' automatically for all orders, and 'go to' always stops anywhere in between, no matter whether I enable or disable that patch option.
15:46:12 <Roest> anyone know what that means?
15:46:38 <Roest> damn i should play the game some time again
15:47:25 <yorick> I wonder if it would be a problem
15:47:42 <yorick> non-stop makes it stop no-were inbetween
15:47:44 <Rubidium> Roest: the patch setting is only there as default for new orders
15:47:51 <yorick> normal makes it stop everywhere
15:47:58 <yorick> non-stop doesn't mean 'via'
15:48:08 <Rubidium> and now you get 4 different stopping strategies instead of 3
15:48:23 <Rubidium> and of those 3 2 are mutually exclusive
15:48:38 <Roest> so the answer is, everything is fine and that's normal behavior?
15:49:30 <yorick> what do you really want?
15:49:55 <yorick> something you can do with orders
15:50:37 <Roest> me? nothing, i was just relaying a question i didnt have the answer for
15:51:18 <yorick> he wants sex with trains :o
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16:19:51 <Rubidium> it isn't a 0.5 savegame either, so can't test any regressions either
16:19:58 <SmatZ> yorick: yeah :) but maybe there is a bug causing performance slowdowns
16:23:41 *** Boyinblue0 has joined #openttd
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16:30:43 *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
16:32:54 <Rubidium> how many ships are in that game?
16:33:21 <Rubidium> 50% of CPU goes to RVs, 38% to ships
16:33:44 <Rubidium> 3% to all other vehicles
16:34:10 <Rubidium> 6% for tile/industry/town/station loops
16:34:41 <Rubidium> the rest basically to loading the savegame
16:35:19 <teeg> which profiler are you using?
16:35:48 <teeg> ah ok. the one I was about to look at yesterday then. excellent.
16:37:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
16:38:37 <dragonhorseboy> rubidium...one dumb question...
16:38:53 <dragonhorseboy> these 50%/38% cpu .. is that with original or yapf selected?
16:39:12 <Bjarni> I saw somebody highlighting me and I thought "it's properly yorick, who is doing his shit again"
16:39:22 <Rubidium> resp. yapf and original
16:40:35 <dragonhorseboy> rubidium hmm ok because when I was running 0.6.0 server I noticed that somehow the ship pathfinder was defaulted to original instead of older yapf this time and I noticed that oddly the ships routed much better and didn't even use much cpu
16:40:41 <dragonhorseboy> not sure if its just me or not tho
16:40:59 <Rubidium> YAPF isn't meant to be used for ships
16:41:17 <Rubidium> it will find better routes for ships though
16:51:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
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17:00:14 <teeg> I was going to say "why the long face?", but then again :| isn't exactly a long-faced smilie.
17:00:36 *** dragonhorseboy has left #openttd
17:00:44 <dih> that is a 'wide' smile....
17:01:14 <dih> Sacro: that aint no nice smily
17:03:53 <ooo4tom> i need help, i can't decide between Ubuntu 8.04 or PclinuxOS, i would like to know what you all think ?
17:04:11 <dih> i think you should avoid starting flame wars ^^
17:04:39 <dih> other peoples preferences have nothing to do with what YOU may or may not like
17:05:03 <ooo4tom> you have a point,thats all i seem to do these days
17:05:08 <dih> you need to know what distro you prefere working with, this may include looking at a bunch of different distroes to decide though
17:05:30 <dih> grap some livecd's is what i'd suggest
17:05:50 <dih> have a look at them - if your initial feeling is 'yuck' boot another distro
17:06:07 <dih> pick 2 or 3 you most are comfortable with, and start installing
17:06:24 <dih> getting used to how things are installed, where files are located, etc.
17:06:37 <dih> perhaps www.linuxquestions.org can be of help to you
17:07:21 <glx> rpm based or deb based can be important too
17:08:15 <Rubidium> ooo4tom: you should go for itron
17:09:00 <teeg> ooo4tom: I personally run kubuntu 8.04 these days, but I hear pclinuxos' 3d thingies are rather spiffy.
17:09:20 <Belugas> sorry, my mIRC just flashed :)
17:10:22 <Rubidium> no, he likes Tron; the most used OS
17:13:34 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
17:19:23 <dih> yorick: that patch was updated to wwottdtd
17:21:09 <yorick> yes, but wwottdgd also had newindustries
17:21:54 <dih> perhaps start at the rev of wwottdgd
17:23:28 <yorick> dih, it was already broken with wwottdgd
17:25:22 <yorick> the drawing of newindustries above snowlevel
17:27:07 *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
17:27:10 <yorick> default industries don't have snowy versions, do they?
17:28:25 <nicfer> (for lazy men... windows 2000 on nes
17:28:36 <yorick> but in case they do, and a grf wants to overwrite the arctic industries to look different, it draws the arctic version
17:28:53 <yorick> but most newindustries grfs are snowline-detecting
17:30:26 * yorick is probably incorrect, because it does it with the ground sprite
17:31:03 <Ammler> tested with canada set
17:31:30 <yorick> try to test it with pbs ;)
17:33:37 <Ammler> pbi has snowline support?
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17:37:18 <Ammler> ? no idea, what you mean...
17:38:30 <Belugas> [13:27] <yorick> but most newindustries grfs are snowline-detecting <-- do you have CLEAR evidence of that?
17:38:43 <Ammler> there is no snowi iron ore
17:41:38 <Belugas> and thisd is MOST newindustries grf ????
17:42:16 <yorick> you're not supposed to read every work I say
17:42:44 <Belugas> well... don't write them then
17:44:01 <Tefad> i think by most he meant all the ones he uses, eg just PBI ; )
17:44:58 <yorick> finally someone who understands :)
17:45:11 <Tefad> but yeah, your wording sucks.
17:45:21 <Ammler> there is no change for coal mine at temp
17:46:03 <Ammler> I would bet, that would also happen in TTDP, did you try?
17:46:22 <yorick> SPR_FLAT_SNOWY_TILE is meant to be a snow groundsprite, no?
17:52:14 <yorick> no, I had a grf loaded
17:52:21 <yorick> without that grf, it's a questionmark
17:55:34 <dih> i can sync 2 imap accounts both ways :-)
17:56:17 <dih> would not wanna stand to close to that thing when it runs by
17:57:34 *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
18:03:02 <yorick> that snow in temperate patch has quite a few bugs
18:03:20 <yorick> newhouses, newindustries aren't supported
18:04:00 <Roujin> are buoys broken in trunk?
18:04:27 <Roujin> i noticed something was wrong with them, but my build was altered..
18:04:42 <yorick> the "unknown destination" thing?
18:05:22 <yorick> well...my altered build also has a problem
18:05:23 <Roujin> flyspray bugreport already existing?
18:05:53 <Roujin> no released ones, was fiddling with the code on a patch of my own
18:06:19 *** Dominik has joined #openttd
18:06:26 <yorick> I guess there is really a problem
18:06:33 <yorick> could anyone else test?
18:06:55 <Roujin> i'll test with a clean build of newest trunk...
18:08:25 <yorick> the rename button is also grayed out
18:09:52 <Roujin> probably some pointer going nuts
18:16:08 <yorick> Roujin, your screenshot is broken
18:17:00 <SmatZ> Roujin: you broke buoys!
18:17:00 *** Dominik has joined #openttd
18:17:11 <SmatZ> strange how it could happen
18:17:28 <SmatZ> probably removing of autoptr
18:18:15 <Roujin> i broke flyspray with my screenshot oO
18:18:57 <yorick> you broke the flies with a flyspray?
18:19:07 <SmatZ> you probably canceled file upload
18:20:17 <yorick> your screenshot broke flyspray
18:20:51 <Roujin> i hope i can still upload diffs...
18:20:57 <yorick> revenge of the flies, part 3!
18:21:28 *** Ehtirno has joined #openttd
18:21:36 <yorick> !peter1138: blamed! gofixing! gobackporting! goreleasing!
18:22:24 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b *!*yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl
18:22:24 *** yorick was kicked by peter1138 (gtfo)
18:22:34 *** peter1138 sets mode: -b *!*yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl
18:23:52 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Karen_ was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 2 hours, 50 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Karen_> Oh, my boss
18:24:31 *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
18:27:22 <yorick> it doesn't show up in the list of stations aswell
18:28:12 <Roujin> i tell you some pointer is pointing to nowhereness...
18:28:23 <Tefad> ottd.info's background makes my eyes hurt
18:28:25 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
18:29:14 <Bjarni> if you are an archaeology
18:30:00 <Tefad> pointers are your friend
18:31:21 <Roest> i like it how you can use pointers in c#, after declaring an area of code as unsafe
18:31:42 <Tefad> holy crap that bg image is huge too.. 250KB?!
18:32:13 <Roest> it's 2008, 250kb isnt huge
18:32:50 <Tefad> it is for such a horrible looking image
18:33:54 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
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18:34:57 *** pm|away is now known as planetmaker
18:42:42 <Roujin> why doesn't it work ><
18:43:09 <Roujin> whose, mine? I'm trying to upload something, not download oO
18:43:25 <Roujin> or you mean the server?
18:46:22 <Wolf01> sacro, tell me the solution of the first riddle.. see I have 2 torchlight-vaginas never used here :D
18:47:36 <Roest> i wouldnt count on the never used
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18:48:08 <Wolf01> (I wouldn't bet on me if I'm telling the truth)
18:48:38 <Wolf01> (so shhh, sacro can't read text between ellipses)
18:49:10 <Belugas> even more if those ellipses are looking like bra
18:49:46 <Belugas> or breast jumping out of bras...
18:51:52 <Belugas> how spring can affect youth...incredible
18:52:02 <Roest> not a bad obseesion tho
18:54:15 <Wolf01> today a girl of the other company that shares the office with us came with a nice.. shirt with no neck... ehm how to tell that she have a nice breast? :D
18:54:45 <|Jeroen|> just stare at them all day, she will know what you mean then
18:54:53 *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
18:55:42 <Wolf01> I always stare at them all day, is impossible to look around, them are magnets!
18:56:30 <SmatZ> everyone staring at her breasts
18:57:30 <Sacro> Wolf01: fleshlight in exchange for question 1? not bad
18:57:53 <Wolf01> he knows the exact name too
18:57:55 <Sacro> when did the devs eat cake
18:58:20 <Sacro> Karen_ posted it in here loads
18:58:57 <Sacro> now you'll be wanting my address for that parcel...
18:59:20 <Sacro> i wonder if i need to start subversion for my repo to work...
19:00:09 <Sacro> i have a linux box running svnserve
19:00:18 <Sacro> but i can't get visual studioto work
19:00:38 <Roest> vs doesnt have native svn support
19:00:43 <Roujin> meh, shouldn't have stopped BF'ing at 1000 :P
19:02:00 <Roest> i used to run svn serve as a service on a windows box or as a apache module
19:02:12 <Roest> so not much help here with linux
19:03:29 <Roest> found it rather complicated to set up, like most open source software :/
19:03:57 <peter1138> what do you need svnserve for?
19:07:53 * Belugas likes very much his VisualVSN stuff, at home
19:09:05 <Roest> to bad it only works with some registry hack on vs2008
19:14:56 *** lolman is now known as Guest2137
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19:31:12 <Sacro> how do i use svn to remove all the .svn files
19:32:44 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
19:47:58 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai
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19:57:37 <Rubidium> because that's what in the wwwroot
19:58:55 <SmatZ> well... it used to show default apache page before upgrade :-x
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20:18:00 *** Dominik has joined #openttd
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20:52:15 *** Karen__ has joined #openttd
20:54:31 <Karen__> i give you 10 minutes to ask me one yes/no question, which i shall answer
20:57:27 <Rubidium> Karen__: do you like to get banned?
20:57:56 <Rubidium> oh noes... you boss is coming!
20:58:47 <Karen__> if that is how you want to play this game: yes
20:59:34 <Rubidium> it's just that you've got kind of a split personality between the forum and the channel
21:00:35 <Karen__> same time tomorrow then? good night!
21:01:05 <Bjarni> looks like the boss showed up again :P
21:01:51 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, she also appears to be unable to count
21:02:00 <Bjarni> [22:54:31] <Karen__> i give you 10 minutes to ask me one yes/no question, which i shall answer
21:02:00 <Bjarni> [22:56:12] * Wolf01 looks at the bed
21:02:30 <Rubidium> and she actually said "yes" to that!
21:02:41 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Next time she appears, should I just ask a nonsense question?
21:02:57 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: ofcourse
21:02:59 <Belugas> maybe she understood "spanked" instead of "banned"
21:03:04 <Bjarni> ask her how Wolf01 is in bed :P
21:04:20 <Belugas> meanwhile, it's time to go home and play with my son for a while
21:04:22 <Bjarni> we shouldn't ask something where we don't want to know the answer
21:05:09 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: I was going to go with the QI approach
21:05:29 <Prof_Frink> Ask a question which everyone knows the answer to, and that answer is /wrong/.
21:05:43 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Look it up on YouTube
21:06:13 <Bjarni> I will not make the searches you tell me to
21:06:45 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: OK, look it up on the bbc website, then use your judgment
21:07:00 <Prof_Frink> (Although the beeb has been known to be goatse'd)
21:08:32 *** planetmaker is now known as pm|away
21:09:16 <Sacro> WHAT A WASTE OF A QUESTION
21:10:26 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b Karen*!*@*
21:11:16 <glx> Karen__ [~91764886@webuser.thegrebs.com] a rejoint #openttd
21:12:13 <Bjarni> now I know why there are only guys in here
21:12:24 <Bjarni> whenever a female shows up you ban her
21:13:05 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Don't be silly.
21:13:14 <Prof_Frink> There are no females on the internets.
21:13:56 <SmatZ> really, why do you ban her (or him or whatever)
21:14:02 <Prof_Frink> That said, Tenebrae does a bloody good impression
21:14:23 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: then update our knowledgebase for that kind of facts
21:14:28 <Rubidium> as it doesn't state that
21:14:38 *** Boyinblue0 has left #openttd
21:15:15 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> really, why do you ban her (or him or whatever) <-- I believe it could be referred to as "it"
21:15:23 <Bjarni> but that doesn't answer the why question
21:16:06 <ln> because it is stupid, that's why.
21:16:35 *** Digitalfox_Home has joined #openttd
21:19:49 <SmatZ> well, it spent time creating ottd.info, and I really don't undrestand this behaviour
21:20:00 <SmatZ> I would rather say it was nice from her/him
21:21:03 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, should I do it?
21:21:59 <SmatZ> there are people who did it without brute force
21:25:06 <Bjarni> Karen posted the link to the r10k cake twice last night without any explanation :/
21:25:08 <glx> openttd.cpp:425 <-- I clearly fail at that one
21:26:15 <SmatZ> generation_seed = InteractiveRandom();
21:27:30 <SmatZ> why is it easy? if you haven't told me... :)
21:28:55 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
21:30:26 <Prof_Frink> glx: Are you using some kind of crazy counting system?
21:31:57 <Prof_Frink> Because on whichever copy of openttd.cpp I use, line 425 is " case 'h':"
21:32:08 <glx> The page has to be numeric and between 0 and 10000000 <-- your brute force script is incomplete
21:32:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't understand that riddle either... there is nothing remotely close to that line that indicates a relevant number
21:32:41 <glx> case 'e': _switch_mode = SM_EDITOR; break; <-- openttd:425@10000
21:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, that occured to me, too, but it doesn't make any more sense either
21:33:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> i haven't checked what it is in 0.6.0, but it can't be far off these lines
21:33:59 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: What I said.
21:34:15 <Prof_Frink> 0.6.0, trunk and 0.6.1RC1
21:34:36 <glx> would be logical to use r10000 though
21:36:00 <SmatZ> do you think you can take it logically?
21:36:05 <Prof_Frink> glx: Unfortunately the "404" errors return 200 OK
21:37:48 <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: Yeah, but that means getting the whole file
21:37:54 <Prof_Frink> not just the headers
21:41:14 <Sacro> glx: what does SM_EDITOR map to in the enum decleration?
21:43:17 <SmatZ> that line is in the background image
21:43:23 <SmatZ> but I don't know if it helps
21:43:53 *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
21:48:30 <Rubidium> guess you got locked out
21:48:45 <glx> it stopped when getting page 38
21:50:39 <Fingon> 728 bytes per page, 10,000,000 pages to check, so barely 7 Gig... should be possible
21:51:13 <Rubidium> but you get locked out after X succesive quick tries
21:51:24 <glx> [23:49:39] <Karen_> Dear glx,
21:51:24 <glx> [23:49:48] <Karen_> Brute-force is not a nice way to find the solution.
21:51:24 <glx> [23:50:05] <Karen_> If you promise not to do it again, the ban gets removed.
21:52:21 <Bjarni> if you don't use brute force she will not be banned anymore?
21:52:49 <SmatZ> if she knows it was you
21:53:15 <Fingon> the question is now : how fast is "successive", and is the logging done based on cookie or on ip
21:53:43 <Fingon> in other words : how much pc's / proxies will we need :)
21:54:11 <Rubidium> guess you need to overtake a spamnet
21:54:34 <Fingon> at 1 check a second it's only 115 days
21:54:34 <SmatZ> there are hundreds of thousands OTTD users
21:54:37 <Zuu> add it to next nightly :)
21:55:13 <Bjarni> for all you know we have done that for years :P
21:55:58 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, I can still access it
21:56:34 <Prof_Frink> (I slightly hit enter on that `for` command)
21:57:13 <Rubidium> what about spoofing IP addresses?
21:57:32 <Rubidium> at some point in time the 'bad guys' database will overflow
21:57:33 <Fingon> won't work Rubidium, you need the reply
21:57:37 <Prof_Frink> You can tell it's a channel full of geeks
21:57:48 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai^zZz`off
21:57:48 <Prof_Frink> "I don't know the answer - let's hack it"
21:57:54 <Rubidium> and then you crash their server ;)
21:58:16 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: what would you then do with schizofrenic people?
21:58:30 <Fingon> it's not hacking, it's just a creative solution for a difficult problem
21:59:56 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: They can keep each other amused.
22:05:37 *** Fiddler has joined #openttd
22:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> <Fingon> [...] is the logging done based on cookie or on ip <- you cannot solve anything without cookie
22:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, good night, have to get up early...
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22:22:55 <Fiddler> my guess about who is "karen" : jonty-comp (Forum Games Moderator) ?
22:25:01 <Prof_Frink> Nah, I think jonty-comp's jonty-comp
22:31:29 <Sacro> Fiddler: i doubt it's jonty
22:35:49 *** mynetdude has joined #openttd
22:39:19 <mynetdude> brb, testing some mIRC settings
22:39:21 *** mynetdude has left #openttd
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22:42:27 <mynetdude> bummer can't link nicks on this server
22:45:46 <mynetdude> how? I went through the nickserv help set commands, I didn't see a link command
22:46:09 <Prof_Frink> [23:44:30] -NickServ(services@services.oftc.net)- LINK: Link this nickname to a master nickname.
22:46:31 <mynetdude> and is there any way I can retrieve a list of linked nicks?
22:46:48 *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
22:52:02 * Dominik is at the 5th riddle now
22:52:18 *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
22:52:34 *** mynetdude has left #openttd
22:53:03 <Dominik> but the 3rd riddle involves cows and pigs. kinda
22:53:33 *** mynetdude has joined #openttd
22:53:46 <SmatZ> Dominik: you are creating the riddle :)
22:54:13 <Digitalfox_Home> You guys really liking the Riddle :p
22:54:25 <Dominik> the second isn't that hard really. but i don't want to give any clues
22:54:45 <SmatZ> Digitalfox_Home: some do, some don't :)
22:54:49 <Dominik> and i only came across it after you guys mentioned it
22:55:11 <Digitalfox_Home> So what do you think the prize will be? =0
22:55:31 <Dominik> i doubt there'll be a price
22:55:32 <SmatZ> yeah, I spent a lot of time thinking how that line 425 on that image can be connected with any number... I tried tile numbers from intro game that were under that text
22:57:48 * Fiddler still trying to profile "Karen"...
22:58:13 <SmatZ> you are obsessed about her, aren't you Fiddler :)
22:58:15 <Digitalfox_Home> And who is this "Karen" ?
22:59:22 <SmatZ> well, I like the style how it is done
23:01:09 <Digitalfox_Home> Let's see what will happen :\
23:01:41 <Digitalfox_Home> Nonetheless who ever it is already spend money on the open.info domain :p
23:02:21 <mynetdude> ..:: Xfire IRC Status Script De-Activated ::..
23:02:30 <SmatZ> and time with making that riddle
23:02:42 <Digitalfox_Home> yeah SmatZ :)
23:03:18 <SmatZ> mynetdude: using any kind of away messages and similiar automated text is forbidden here
23:03:21 <Fiddler> she's quite good at hiding... it's teasing :)
23:04:03 <SmatZ> "The internet: Where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents."
23:04:10 <mynetdude> SmatZ I'm working on keeping it from displaying thats why I deactivated it, unfortunately the script writer didn't bother to include silent deactivations or such
23:04:10 <SmatZ> I am not sure if she is a girl
23:04:48 <SmatZ> mynetdude: it's bad, someone will probably ban you if you don't change it :-x
23:05:29 <mynetdude> SmatZ no worries its not going to show here
23:08:56 <SmatZ> mynetdude: by the way, did you start any new game? bigger than the last one?
23:09:11 <Digitalfox_Home> Dominik still at the 5th riddle?
23:10:06 <mynetdude> SmatZ I did, I barely started though a 512x256 map
23:10:27 <mynetdude> been having problems with some realism questions so I was doing some research and could not come to a good conclusion
23:11:09 <Dominik> Digitalfox_Home: dunno until i solve it. i have no clue where the number is ^^
23:11:36 <SmatZ> mynetdude: OTTD works on a certain level of abstraction, don't try to make everything realistic
23:12:51 <mynetdude> SmatZ oh no not that kind of realism, I just wanted to know whether stations had platforms in 1930 and whether or not semaphores were available in that time era and whether building tracks on ottd slopes were considered realistic as going up a hill or such
23:16:24 <SmatZ> Fiddler: have you found anything?
23:16:29 *** lobster_MB has joined #openttd
23:18:55 <Fiddler> SmatZ: I think "Karen" could be here right now :/
23:19:26 <SmatZ> Fiddler: probably is, there are probably more her friends :)
23:19:50 <Dominik> glx: pretty easy when you know where to look, isn't it?
23:20:22 <glx> well the problem is to now the right rev to use
23:20:34 <SmatZ> I hope it is not "red on green" or "green on red" :-x
23:20:42 <SmatZ> like red number on grass
23:21:08 <Dominik> nah, that's what the 3rd riddle is about ;)
23:21:10 <glx> as openttd.cpp:425 can be many things
23:21:48 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Any suggestions on the first #?
23:22:01 <Dominik> true, but i must've been lucky on my first guess
23:22:08 <glx> the first one is very easy Chicago_Rail_Authority
23:22:41 <SmatZ> I wouldn't do #1 without clues
23:22:49 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> k... just barely started to look into the whole thing 2 min ago
23:23:05 <glx> knowing ottd story, first one is easy
23:23:29 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> good point
23:23:35 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> on to #2...
23:24:43 <Dominik> whoever created the riddle knows more about openttd then most people in this channel i think
23:26:26 <Fiddler> Dominik; that's what makes me think he's on the channel...
23:27:20 <Digitalfox_Home> Dominik maybe an old Open DEV or an active one ;)
23:27:55 <Dominik> i think openttd devs have other things to do then create riddles ;)
23:28:23 <Digitalfox_Home> Dominik there are the retired ones :p
23:31:35 <Fiddler> well, looking at the early revs...
23:32:59 <Dominik> i'm off to bed. good night!
23:33:51 <SmatZ> well, Celestar is sometimes at IRC ... but I don't remember seeing other early devs more often than few times a year
23:34:46 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12915 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1960](r12857): don't initialize Station struct with tile=0, buoys will never change that value
23:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> Dominik is a retired developer ;)
23:38:01 <Digitalfox_Home> Eddi|zuHause3 true, and it's nice to see old dev's still around :)
23:38:35 <Fiddler> I've been looking r1 to r120 so far...
23:39:05 <Zuu> You don't think it is r10000?
23:39:36 <SmatZ> Fiddler: 12800 revisions to go
23:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have my doubts that this would be leading anywhere ;)
23:43:33 <Fiddler> hmmm... I can't connect Owen's avatar to any Karen... :/
23:45:23 <SmatZ> It's owen on his avatar!
23:47:08 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Have many people been able to figure out the 2nd one?
23:48:58 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12916 /trunk/src/thread_pthread.cpp: -Fix: let ThreadObject_pthread::IsRunning() behave the same way as ThreadObject_Win32::IsRunning() does
23:49:16 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause3: did you, too
23:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, i actually had it right a while ago, but i got told to enable cookies ;)
23:52:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> meaning, yesterday
23:53:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> but i am stuck on the third one right now, and i really should be sleeping
23:53:59 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> anyone lose their connection to the site?
23:54:19 <glx> I did after I tried to hack it
23:55:07 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> maybe I was guessing too frequently... oh well
continue to next day ⏵
