IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-03-05
⏴ go to previous day
00:01:16 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
00:57:41 *** Sacr1 is now known as Sacro
01:12:20 *** NukeBuster has left #openttd
01:15:58 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
01:27:47 <oh> anyone know whether it's possible to save a multiplayer game and continue where you left off offline?
01:28:47 <glx> then load it and use "change player" cheat
01:28:57 <oh> I always end up in the wrong/a new company if I try to load
01:29:39 <glx> or start a local server, load the game and join our company with another client
01:35:15 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
01:39:08 <oh> I think I'm effectively killing maarten's 1940-2000 server :S
02:00:18 *** glx|away has joined #openttd
02:00:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx|away
02:04:30 *** mikegrb_ has joined #openttd
02:06:14 *** mikegrb_ is now known as mikegrb
02:07:53 *** Fujitsu_ has joined #openttd
02:13:22 *** Diabolic-Angel has quit IRC
02:20:36 *** glx|away is now known as glx
02:49:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12340 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp:
02:49:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Remove some magic numbers (sprite IDs here) with some more meaningful values.
02:49:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: This allows to remove an unnecessary subtraction in the MAYBE_DAW_SIGNAL macro, who was waiting for an offset, at the first place.
02:56:06 *** DJ-Nekkid has joined #openttd
03:35:00 *** Jortuny has joined #openttd
03:40:03 *** HerzogDeXtE1 has joined #openttd
03:44:15 *** Poopsmith has joined #openttd
03:50:21 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
04:06:43 *** Osai is now known as Guest135
04:06:43 *** Osai_old has joined #openttd
04:06:44 *** Osai_old is now known as Osai
04:43:46 *** valhalla1w has joined #openttd
04:45:49 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
05:23:53 *** UserError has joined #openttd
05:42:14 *** dR3x4cK has joined #openttd
06:28:07 *** Fujitsu has joined #openttd
06:37:44 *** Gonozal_VIII has joined #openttd
06:40:01 *** roboboy has joined #openttd
07:03:49 *** Deathmaker has joined #openttd
07:06:38 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
07:32:33 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
07:32:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
07:49:57 *** roboman has joined #openttd
08:00:51 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
08:02:00 *** caladan has joined #openttd
08:04:06 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
09:12:23 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
09:12:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
09:32:31 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
09:38:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12341 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r11224) [FS#1827]: GRM buffer for cargos was incorrect size.
09:40:33 <DorpsGek> peter1138: Open Bugs: 28; Not assigned: 22; Closed this week: 16; Opened this week: 15
09:40:59 <peter1138> DRM in open source? hehehe
09:58:31 <SpComb> hmm, I was somehow under the vauge impression that PBS had gotten into trunk, but I appear to be delusional
10:14:00 <peter1138> And also delusional that ‘gotten’ is a word in English...
10:19:34 *** dR3x4cK2313 has joined #openttd
10:20:37 *** dR3x4cK83 has joined #openttd
10:27:17 *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:50:55 *** bumblebee has joined #openttd
11:04:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
11:22:38 *** bumblebee has joined #openttd
11:36:05 *** CmdKewin has joined #openttd
11:39:29 *** CmdKewin has joined #openttd
11:41:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12342 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp:
11:41:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix(r12340): In order to avoid confusion, SIGN should be used for signs and SIGNAL for signals :)
11:41:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Always check your terms with your nearest british ;)
12:01:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
12:06:16 *** Frostregen_ has joined #openttd
12:12:26 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
12:45:51 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
12:47:52 *** MDGrein has joined #openttd
12:55:31 <fjb> Where did follow_track.cpp go? I don't find it in the comit messages.
12:57:29 <fjb> Now I have to find out what the yapp patch does to that file.
13:02:58 <peter1138> I don't think YAPP used it.
13:03:55 <peter1138> It fixed it, but it wasn't needed anyway. Or something.
13:10:51 <fjb> Oh, ok. Then I will just skip that part of the patch.
13:16:57 <fjb> Is the vehicle pool patch that patch that was talked about to go into trunk after the feature freeze?
13:27:03 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
13:35:42 *** Slowpoke has joined #openttd
13:35:52 * fjb gets a horse to kiss Sacro.
13:38:34 <yorick> lets see, what shall I patch into my custom beta5?
13:38:43 <yorick> (with networking compat)
13:39:43 *** MDGrein has joined #openttd
13:42:04 <fjb> I have often seen people desync after using copy-paste. And as far as I know that functionality is disabled in a network game now.
13:45:09 <fjb> I would ban everybody who uses the copy-paste patch from my server.
13:45:26 <yorick> it can be disabled serverside ;)
13:46:02 <yorick> if you ask frostregen, he can provide you the pastespeed patch
13:46:17 <yorick> if the pastespeed patch value is set to 255, pasting is disabled
13:46:32 <SmatZ> I wonder how the "pastespeed" patch works, maybe it just limits the frequency of accepted commands
13:46:55 <fjb> But how works it technically?
13:46:56 <SmatZ> it has to be compatible with clean clients
13:47:25 <SmatZ> and clients with c&p do not know the pastespeed setting of the server - or do they?
13:48:02 <peter1138> Clients: 7 / 11 (7 / 6 companies; 1 / 11 spectators)
13:48:06 <peter1138> Hmm, 7 out of 6 companies? :o
13:48:19 <yorick> they could have been lowered
13:48:31 <glx> peter1138: 2 joins at the same time?
13:48:56 <fjb> Limiting the frequency of accepted commands will be very bad in case of a network jam. You never know in which order or speed the ip packets reach their destination.
13:49:26 <SmatZ> but how else could it work?
13:50:04 <fjb> There is no other way how it could work. The copy paste patch emulates a very fast clicking person.
13:50:22 <fjb> So that is a very bad countermeasure against a cheat.
13:51:31 <fjb> peter1138: One is a virtual company, located at the Bahamas.
13:51:36 *** GoneWacko has joined #openttd
13:53:50 <fjb> Banning is still the prefered solution as you don't have to patch the server.
13:54:13 <yorick> it should be allowed for me to do whatever I want on my client ^^
13:54:35 <yorick> the server should decide if what I do is good or not
13:55:14 <fjb> And it should be allowed for the admin to do what ever he things is needed protecting the game.
13:55:33 <yorick> I won't play on your server anyway ^^
13:56:09 <fjb> And I didn't see a game yet where the copy paste patch wasn't kind of abused.
13:58:53 <glx> nothing we can do about it I think
13:59:11 <peter1138> Not really, except maybe ignore the bit when showing stuff like that.
14:00:17 <fjb> Isn't it possivble to show the details independent from the direction the train is traveling?
14:00:43 <yorick> hmm...it is indeed a MP patch setting
14:01:02 *** LordAzamath has joined #openttd
14:07:43 <glx> peter1138: hmm doesn't happen for all combinations
14:08:18 <peter1138> Well it just shows whatever the GRF has told it to show.
14:08:47 <glx> sometimes only the engine "rotates"
14:11:12 *** Dominik has joined #openttd
14:11:39 <yorick> the better graphs patch hasn't been updated recently?
14:13:27 <DorpsGek> LordAzamath: miham* could be MiHaMeK (4 weeks, 6 days, 19 hours, 26 minutes, and 17 seconds ago) or MiHaMiX (7 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 51 minutes, and 48 seconds ago)
14:15:51 <LordAzamath> yorick... well he is online there...
14:17:26 <LordAzamath> was that a scream or laughing?
14:19:49 * fjb knows why he doesn't use Microssoft Software it ever avoidable.
14:25:55 <fjb> Gonozal should update his patch pack. :-)
14:31:09 *** Diabolic-Angel has joined #openttd
14:37:31 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
14:42:54 <yorick> does anyone have an updated version of the better graphs patch?
14:43:37 <LordAzamath> peter1138, you here?
14:44:23 <fjb> yorick: I fear you have to update that patch.
14:45:10 <yorick> but it tries to remove things on line 500 of openttd.h
14:45:24 <LordAzamath> I just tried that if I add that missing tag to the wagon articles ( picture: ), then it won't show it anywhere... SO I can define the tags before and then you change the template and everything is automatically correct..
14:46:15 <LordAzamath> so I'll give the 27 articles those tags and you update template? good :)
14:53:03 <fjb> yorick: Look what it tries to remove and remove that line by hand.
14:53:44 <yorick> fjb: there is the problem, there is no line 512
14:54:17 <fjb> But the diff tells you the contend of that line. You have to find that content anywhere.
14:54:55 <yorick> you seem to know, goodluck!
14:58:35 <fjb> Maybe that line was relocated to another file.
14:59:28 <fjb> FollowTrack_t was completely removed?
15:04:07 *** stillunknown has joined #openttd
15:06:44 <fjb> I think I have to reintroduce it to get the yapp patch working.
15:13:37 *** Diabolic-Angel has quit IRC
15:13:39 <fjb> I should set up my own repository.
15:15:17 <hylje> or go decentralized all the way
15:16:48 <LordAzamath> peter1138, you here:P?
15:17:39 <LordAzamath> I've finished I hope..
15:17:53 <LordAzamath> if any typos came in, we'll see it :P
15:18:06 <fjb> hylje: No, that is not an option.
15:20:19 <fjb> I don't see the advantage of decentralisation.
15:21:38 <hylje> several repositories, which can share changesets trivially
15:24:25 <fjb> And why should I have several repositories when I can have several branches in one repository?
15:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> because you can't have branches in THE repository
15:25:38 <fjb> But I can have a replication of that repository and branch as will in my own replecated repository.
15:26:58 *** Vikthor has joined #openttd
15:27:04 <glx> <fjb> I think I have to reintroduce it to get the yapp patch working. <-- why?
15:27:59 <SmatZ> fjb: are you a new YAPP developer?
15:28:34 <fjb> No, I'm just porting the patch to the actual source.
15:28:40 <glx> YAPP can use FollowTrack()
15:29:31 <SmatZ> michi_cc isn't developing / updating YAPP anymore?
15:29:45 <SmatZ> he said you to update it :)
15:34:53 *** Draakon has joined #openttd
15:49:12 *** stillunk1own has joined #openttd
15:56:20 *** Wezz6400 has joined #openttd
15:56:47 *** raimar2 has joined #openttd
15:58:42 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
16:19:14 <fjb> SmatZ: He is still developing it. But I want to patch the actual OpenTTD.
16:19:57 <peter1138> The *actual* OpenTTD?
16:20:15 <peter1138> Wasn't it already a patch of the, er, 'actual' OpenTTD?
16:20:36 <fjb> Ok, I meant latest trunk.
16:20:52 <fjb> My English is not perfect.
16:21:54 <peter1138> You want to update. Enjoy ;)
16:22:44 <fjb> Only think that bogs me is FollowTrack_t.
16:27:11 <LordAzamath> peter1138... do you ignore me? :P ^^
16:28:05 <LordAzamath> you just don't have time?
16:28:39 <Belugas> time or... interest somewhere else ? ;)
16:29:10 *** Diabolic-Angel has joined #openttd
16:29:48 <LordAzamath> heh.. I have irritated him for two days now..
16:30:11 <LordAzamath> maybe me leaving him alone would be enough motivation to get interested :P
16:30:44 *** Diabolic-Angel has quit IRC
16:33:09 *** Diabolic-Angel has joined #openttd
16:39:01 *** Gonozal_VIII has joined #openttd
16:39:23 <LordAzamath> hello Gonozal_VIII
16:39:51 <LordAzamath> yorick is offline so you won't be invited to #? :P
16:41:14 <fjb> Hi Gonozal_VIII, you dindn't do your homework.
16:43:28 *** dR3x4cK has joined #openttd
16:50:20 <fjb> Yes. Your patch pack doesn't apply to the latest trunk.
16:50:52 <Gonozal_VIII> i never said that it does :P
16:50:53 <dih> i need to test if pasting under os x works or not ^^
16:51:07 <dih> you never said anything to pasting under os x
16:51:09 <Gonozal_VIII> it applies to 12180
16:51:30 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: You adopted it, now you have to take care of it.
16:52:43 <Gonozal_VIII> i wanted to wait for a new yapp version to come out before i update again... because michi said it will be today (a week ago or something)
16:55:20 <Gonozal_VIII> i have most of the patches updated to 12263, some to 12332... but nothing merged yet
16:55:38 <peter1138> Update to current trunk :D
16:55:56 <LordAzamath> gonozal updates and peter makes another commit....
16:55:59 <Gonozal_VIII> release 0.6.0 :P
16:56:46 <Ammler> Gonozal_VIII: yould you release a patchpack without pass dest
16:57:03 <Gonozal_VIII> you can deactivate it
16:58:10 <Gonozal_VIII> i didn't include it at first because of the problems the patch causes but there was a high demand
16:59:04 <Gonozal_VIII> somebody wrote that... i don't know for sure
16:59:51 <Gonozal_VIII> but my game crashed once with it
17:00:13 <Gonozal_VIII> with some clicking around in the station window
17:00:40 <Gonozal_VIII> but i couldn't reproduce it, so no idea...
17:01:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> the only thing i noticed is having a station window open causes heavy load
17:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the amount of passengers generated does not match my scale ;)
17:02:16 <Gonozal_VIII> the patch is not really finished
17:02:31 <Gonozal_VIII> well... passenger numbers can be adjusted
17:04:19 <fjb> What is your scale? The thousands of passengers waiting at a bus stop are also a bit out of scale.
17:05:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i didn't play enough to be sure but in my testgames the number of passengers seemed to be just right
17:07:07 <fjb> The only thing that doesn't work is to put just one station at the center of a town and then filling hundreds of trains that way.
17:09:04 <fjb> But that is the style that many are playing.
17:10:16 <fjb> Really ugly. Look at most screen shots or look at multiuser games.
17:13:00 <fjb> Look at the scrren shots that many people show at the diffenred TTD forums when they have questions or problems. I often see people using station walking or placing only one station per town alsways under the town name.
17:14:10 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't that cut the town growth if you build directly under the name?
17:14:27 <fjb> Don't know, I never tried it.
17:17:00 <Slowpoke> do I need an additional grf so that those zepelins or blimps or however they're called in englich work correctly? they just stop anywhere on my airports and dont move anymore
17:17:33 <Gonozal_VIII> they use helipads
17:17:39 <Ammler> Slowpoke: did you change the set on a running game?
17:18:12 <Ammler> maybe you overwrote a plane from previous set
17:18:15 <fjb> Zeppelins and blimps are very different. But that should not matter in your case. Which set are you using?
17:18:35 <Slowpoke> hm I did, then deactivated again and activated it again not in a running game...
17:19:02 <Gonozal_VIII> what type of airport?
17:19:44 <Slowpoke> those lagre heliports and smal airports
17:19:51 <fjb> They should work on any airport.
17:19:54 <Gonozal_VIII> and does it have correct orders..
17:20:06 <Gonozal_VIII> and where's the screenshot? :P
17:20:45 <Slowpoke> yes it does... and even if I change them they don't move... not even into a hangar
17:21:13 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmmm do you have a vehicle stopped halfway inside the hangar?
17:21:24 <fjb> Is there a stopped vehicleon that airport?
17:24:10 <Slowpoke> they just aren't moving, there is nothing in the way... I tested with only one at a similar heliport and it didn't work either...
17:24:12 <Gonozal_VIII> that looks really strange^^
17:25:13 <Gonozal_VIII> ..and german... looks strange and german
17:25:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> how would you know what german looks like :p
17:26:05 <Gonozal_VIII> because it looks like austrian but more complicated :P
17:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> Slowpoke: have you tried in a new game?
17:27:02 <Slowpoke> yeah, ut only on a smal airport... Ill try again
17:27:05 <Gonozal_VIII> and the vehicle window you have opened there is the wrong one, that one can
17:29:51 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
17:32:09 <Slowpoke> howeveeer, I stared a new game and same thing, now on a intercontinental airport
17:35:04 <fjb> What grfs do you have loaded in which sequence?
17:39:20 <Slowpoke> newships, newstations, ttrsv3.02a, generic tramset and last the aviator-set
17:40:59 <fjb> And which version of OpenTTD?
17:41:11 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd
17:41:46 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest204
17:43:21 <peter1138> Problem with plane speed patch, it seems.
17:43:37 <fjb> Oh the speeeds drops to 0?
17:44:01 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd
17:45:54 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
17:46:25 *** Slowpoke_ has joined #openttd
17:47:19 <Slowpoke_> sorry, connection failed...
17:47:41 <Slowpoke_> speed doesn't drop to 0
17:51:13 <Slowpoke_> I'll have to do something else now, I'll update openttd tomorrow and see what happens. thanks for your help anyway :)
17:51:42 <peter1138> Well it's not fixed yet, heh.
17:51:48 <fjb> What do I have to do to add a file to the source? Just add it to source.list?
17:52:07 <SmatZ> fjb: and run projects/generate
17:52:55 <fjb> I think I don't need to tell svn about it.
17:53:08 <SmatZ> you do if you want to do svn diff
17:54:13 <fjb> I even didn't need projects/generate, I think.
17:54:26 <peter1138> That's only for MSVC.
17:55:59 <fjb> I found that out after running the script. But it didn't harm anything.
17:57:36 <SmatZ> it helps MSVC users to later modify your patch
17:58:44 <fjb> The patch will stay at home. :-) It is just the yapp patch.
18:01:10 *** UnderBuilder has joined #openttd
18:15:15 <fjb> I'm one error further. :-)
18:26:12 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd
18:28:59 <yorick> a patch that allows custom server actions from console isn't so hard :0
18:33:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12343 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12293): Slow helicopters never got the 'chance' to finish the landing routine.
18:35:46 *** NukeBuster has left #openttd
18:38:30 <yorick> and having "say" during connecting could be possible too
18:39:10 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
18:51:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r12344 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Codechange: Check uint64 bitsize on compiletime too.
18:53:39 <yorick> how big would spamming risks be if I let unknown clients chat?
18:59:20 <yorick> ok, so it's not like *start* *enlargeyourpenisnow* *buyxtc* *donatemoneyforkittensinbottles* *spreadthismessage* *newcomputervirusdiscovered*?
19:00:21 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
19:00:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
19:00:41 * yorick repeats it for missing users:
19:00:41 <yorick> [19:53] <yorick> how big would spamming risks be if I let unknown clients chat?
19:00:41 <yorick> [19:56] *** Ammler quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
19:00:41 <yorick> [19:59] <yorick> ok, so it's not like *start* *enlargeyourpenisnow* *buyxtc* *donatemoneyforkittensinbottles* *spreadthismessage* *newcomputervirusdiscovered*?
19:03:26 <glx> @kick yorick for spamming :)
19:03:26 *** yorick was kicked by DorpsGek (for spamming :))
19:03:56 <yorick> I expected that for some reason
19:10:09 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
19:12:40 <yorick> my mouse just got broken
19:13:46 * yorick spoke to it using a hamer
19:16:20 <yorick> I assume some server admins might like the custom actions
19:17:13 *** Draakon has joined #openttd
19:17:29 <Belugas> yorick, i strongly suggest you submit your patch on forums and just let us quietly sleep
19:17:49 * Belugas hates meaningless monologues
19:17:50 <yorick> you don't have to read :p
19:17:51 * peter1138 would just suggest shutting up...
19:18:05 <peter1138> Or getting me a beer.
19:18:27 <Draakon> so whats cooking here?
19:18:29 * yorick gives peter1138 an imaginary beer
19:18:54 * Belugas picks it up before it reaches peter's hand
19:19:31 <yorick> fighting for an imaginare beer eh?
19:20:41 *** Gonozal_VIII has joined #openttd
19:23:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i can't sleep right because i'm dreaming too much :-/
19:23:46 <Draakon> I NEED MORE FEATURES! xD
19:23:57 <yorick> I'm uploading a patch to flyspray
19:23:59 <Gonozal_VIII> and i can't understand the dreams because they are in japanese without subtitles :-/
19:24:22 <yorick> custom networking actions
19:24:39 <yorick> *** Server is shutting down in this minute...
19:24:51 <yorick> do "Server is shutting down in this minute..."
19:25:33 <Draakon> because i cant host :(
19:27:28 <yorick> devs, you can sleep after you've read or included(or both) fs1829
19:27:48 *** yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
19:32:09 * Belugas does not feel the need to do so
19:35:05 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
19:35:05 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
19:37:40 * |Jeroen| doesn't feel like doing anything
19:38:41 *** dR3x4cK has joined #openttd
19:43:30 *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
19:46:37 <fjb> src/rail_cmd.cpp:2171: error: invalid conversion from `int' to `TrackdirBits'
19:46:45 <fjb> I must have done something wrong.
19:47:44 <fjb> if ((b & 0x8) == 0) red_signals |= (TRACKDIR_BIT_LEFT_N | TRACKDIR_BIT_X_NE | TRACKDIR_BIT_Y_SE | TRACKDIR_BIT_UPPER_E) << 16;
19:48:38 <Yorick> what should that stand for?
19:48:43 <fjb> red_signals is of type TrackdirBits
19:49:06 <fjb> It'a a left shift by 16 bits.
19:50:09 <fjb> But what size is TrackdirBits?
19:50:33 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd
19:50:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
19:54:27 <fjb> Looks like TrackdirBits is only 16 bit wide.
19:59:16 <fjb> You are not Bjarni, I didn't see you kick people.
20:00:20 <Bjarni> more Bjarni than Bjarni himself at the moment
20:02:18 <ln-> wtf are you talking about?
20:02:41 <Yorick> I want to know if it is mirrored
20:03:50 <DorpsGek> ln-: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 8 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I want Sacro
20:05:02 <LordAzamath> or should I say.. Bjarni! ?
20:06:01 * LordAzamath reads upper things..
20:06:09 <LordAzamath> [21:58] *** ln changed nick to Bjarni
20:07:54 <peter1138> I can't play without YAPP any more :(
20:08:45 <fjb> You ahve to update the patch... :-)
20:09:52 * fjb votes for yapp in the patch after feature freeze. Everything else would be unhealthy.
20:10:37 * fjb is a bit confused after counting to many bits.
20:10:51 * Belugas votes for a lot more stuff after freeze...
20:11:09 * Yorick edited his openttd quit message
20:11:43 <Yorick> ***Yorick has left the game(bye!)
20:11:50 * fjb is curious what Belugas has on his list.
20:13:01 <Belugas> WE have a lot on lists
20:13:52 * fjb knows. peter1138 seams to have an almost ready patch for everything.
20:14:35 * fjb will leans proper English in this or his next life one day.
20:15:45 <Noldo> those bloody compilers are not reading your comments?
20:17:14 <Noldo> I wonder what I had on my openttd ToTinkerWith list
20:18:15 <peter1138> Hmm, I've got 800MB free... I had 2GB free the other day...
20:20:18 <Yorick> its fun to see the #openttdcoop and #openttd conversation merged :)
20:20:54 <Yorick> Hmm, I've got 800MB free... I had 2GB free the other day... <--> But the ML<>SL hookups are there
20:21:00 <fjb> Yorick: Don't confuse their highly optimized conversations.
20:21:32 <fjb> One more error resolved. Now for the next one.
20:22:06 *** Deathmaker has joined #openttd
20:22:15 <Belugas> how to set an ignore again?
20:22:19 <Belugas> ho... good... found it
20:26:45 <fjb> How does ./objs/lang/table/strings.h get generated?
20:27:12 <Wolf01> mmmh, 0.6might-be-last-rc, now everybody is waiting for the stable to come and the big river of features on the nightlies
20:27:26 <peter1138> fjb, strgen creates it.
20:28:52 <Wolf01> I'm writing an how to in Italian in my forum, where can I link it?
20:29:02 <fjb> Is a new entry in ./src/lang/english.txt enough to make it appear in ./objs/lang/table/strings.h?
20:30:10 *** ben_goodger_ has joined #openttd
20:30:22 <fjb> Why didn't it appear in ./objs/lang/table/strings.h then? I have to investigate...
20:31:05 *** remaxim has joined #openttd
20:35:57 *** NukeBuster has left #openttd
20:36:12 <fjb> One whitespace was that problem.
20:39:25 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
20:41:20 <fjb> Now I'm having r12342 with YAPP, passenger destinations and engine pools.
20:43:22 <fjb> Now for the update to r12344.
20:50:19 *** thgerg1 has joined #openttd
20:52:59 *** Gonozal_VIII has joined #openttd
20:57:33 *** Leviath has joined #openttd
21:00:49 <Gonozal_VIII> what new good patches are there that i should include in my patchpack?
21:01:50 <fjb> Just keep the current up to date. That will keep you from getting bored.
21:02:46 * Belugas is discovering with pleasure 30 Ghosts IV
21:02:57 <peter1138> Ah, you got it all now :D
21:03:54 *** skidd13 has joined #openttd
21:04:19 <Belugas> and... hooooo.... and haaaaaaaa....
21:06:15 <Gonozal_VIII> what's that airdrag.diff thingy?
21:13:06 <Belugas> the effect of air's dragg on a vehicle, slowing it down, maybe?
21:14:57 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, i read the diff, seems to be so... but i thought asking here might cause an explanation by peter^^
21:19:51 <peter1138> the effect of air's dragg on a vehicle, slowing it down
21:20:33 <Gonozal_VIII> seems to depend only on the engine topspeed
21:21:05 <Belugas> you're right... it should also be applied to the engine speed once stopped :D
21:21:09 <Gonozal_VIII> the sides and roof of the train have airdrag too :-)
21:21:24 <Gonozal_VIII> long train, more drag
21:21:43 <Belugas> somehow, i doubt it has much impact
21:21:58 <Belugas> iirc, the train makes some kind of a tunnel
21:22:07 <Belugas> and on the other hand...
21:22:16 <Belugas> it's a realistic stuff
21:22:29 <Belugas> not so realistic either :S
21:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> air drag is really unimportant for speeds <100km/h
21:25:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> which is why the streamlining of steam engines often got removed... the saving in fuel did not match up with the more difficult maintenance
21:26:55 <Vikthor> On the other hand it is essential for HST
21:27:16 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
21:27:57 <Gonozal_VIII> like the vacuum maglev that melts away if the tube breaks :-)
21:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, air drag is cubic in terms of speed, so double speed means 8 times air drag
21:33:41 <Gonozal_VIII> airdrag is already more than the rest at 100 km/h there
21:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are many facts missing about that picture...
21:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it does support my point, it is unimportant with speeds < 100km/h
21:38:47 <Gonozal_VIII> i know that it is
21:38:57 <Gonozal_VIII> but modern trains are faster than that
21:39:52 <valhalla1w> massenbeschleunigung?
21:40:02 <Gonozal_VIII> mass acceleration
21:40:17 <valhalla1w> strange graph then :D
21:40:18 <Gonozal_VIII> with the right brakes, you should be able to get most of that back
21:40:43 <valhalla1w> I mean, air resisitance is a force and the energy is dependent on the distance travelled
21:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> i also don't know what that means...
21:40:57 <valhalla1w> while mass accelleration isnt dependent on the distance
21:41:02 *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
21:41:35 <valhallasw> but I guess this is averaged on a large number of rides?
21:41:53 <Gonozal_VIII> i think that's statistical data for average use
21:43:03 <Gonozal_VIII> i asked a friend of mine that studied physics about the airdrag and he gave me that link
21:44:21 <Gonozal_VIII> according to him, airdrag over the lenght of the train is only bad if there's for example a container wagon after a flatbed...
21:45:09 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
21:45:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> ever heard of the term "wind shadow"?
21:45:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's why ducks always fly in a V formation
21:45:52 <Gonozal_VIII> there are turbulences
21:46:36 <Gonozal_VIII> he also wrote that small turbulences along the sides of the train are good because they prevent big ones
21:46:45 <peter1138> Our 'realistic' acceleration routine sucks.
21:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> turbulences only have an effect if you try to stay in course
21:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> which is only relevant for planes
21:47:15 <Gonozal_VIII> they drag a lot of air along
21:47:48 * Belugas prepares Zirkos real acceleration "fine tuning" for commit ;)
21:48:07 <SpComb> hooking up all the coal mines on a 512x512 map to a given power station isn't that trivial
21:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> is that the one that removes max speed?
21:48:14 <SpComb> takes a fair few hours
21:48:32 <valhallasw> Gonozal_VIII: yes, that sounds reasonable.
21:48:45 <valhallasw> trains are fairly wind-resistance-efficient anyway
21:49:24 <valhallasw> as they are long objects without too big parts inbetween (except when coupling a container car to a flatbed of course)
21:49:29 <SpComb> although OpenTTD's lack of PBS really hurts
21:50:57 *** Morloth has joined #openttd
21:52:14 <Belugas> and/or wait for it to eventually (and mostly surely) be in trunk
21:52:38 <Gonozal_VIII> then hurry up with 0.6.0 release :P
21:52:45 <SpComb> although I gather YAPP works quite differently from TTDPatch's PBS
21:52:52 *** Ammlller has joined #openttd
21:53:07 <Belugas> well... it is still a PBS
21:53:25 <Belugas> and it is my time to leave home
21:53:41 <Gonozal_VIII> yapp is actually very easy to understand... it's only difficult because you can't build signals like you're used to
21:53:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> leave _to_ home?
21:54:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> YAPP signals are much more natural
21:54:45 *** Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen
21:55:02 <Gonozal_VIII> but if you place them like you used to place the normal signals, you get deadlocks everywhere
22:01:01 <globester> yes i've noticed :(
22:01:19 <globester> still trying to figure them out
22:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's so easy...
22:02:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> wherever you would normally put an exit signal, you place no signal at all
22:03:20 <peter1138> Cunninger than a cunning thing on national cunning day!
22:03:20 <globester> so just one before the junction nothing behind?
22:04:01 <peter1138> ln-, useful crossing... :o
22:04:16 <globester> what's that entry pbs signal for then?
22:04:28 <peter1138> It's a one-way PBS signal.
22:04:46 <Gonozal_VIII> nice openttd screenshot ln
22:05:17 <ln-> peter1138: well it's for getting to the platform in the middle.
22:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> globester: it forbids the train to go backwards through that signal (like normal one-way signals)
22:05:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12345 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1828](r12296): don't try to restore backupped timetable when timetabling is disabled
22:05:55 <Gonozal_VIII> bars for people that want to reach a platform? never seen that in rl
22:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd also mention that... it doesn't look realistic
22:06:47 <Gonozal_VIII> why would cars go there?
22:07:19 <peter1138> To cause train crashes.
22:08:19 <Gonozal_VIII> a car wouldn't even fit between the rails and the crossing bar^^
22:13:34 <Gonozal_VIII> everybody go watch dokuro-chan
22:14:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> i just finished watching stargate
22:15:06 <Gonozal_VIII> new episode sga :O
22:15:35 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm no... friday
22:16:22 * fjb finished r12344 with YAPP, passsenger destinations and vehicle pools. And it is working. At least at the first glance.
22:17:41 <Gonozal_VIII> don't forget to change the savegame version to 91
22:18:37 <fjb> No, not today. r12345 sounds cool, but is not that important to me.
22:19:11 <glx> fjb: just svn up, it won't conflict
22:19:58 <fjb> glx: Ok, so I'm not finished yet.
22:20:12 <Gonozal_VIII> because 12345 is just a fake revision that glx did because he wanted to have that number
22:20:29 <glx> 12345 is just a 2 lines change in order_cmd
22:21:02 * SmatZ could commit 1 whitespace change
22:21:02 *** Morloth is now known as Morloth|Pack
22:21:22 <Morloth|Pack> ln-: I'm packing :)
22:21:22 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe you planned that in advance and planted that bug there :P
22:21:38 <Morloth|Pack> ln-: I'm going to Dublin for a couple of days :)
22:21:40 <ln-> Morloth|Pack: i don't want to know. no one wants to know.
22:21:43 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: was not intended
22:21:58 <ln-> Morloth|Pack: away nicks are bad.
22:22:07 <Morloth|Pack> ln-: you've got a disturbed mindset ;)
22:22:18 <Gonozal_VIII> or you had the fix ready for weeks, just waiting for somebody to commit 12344^^
22:23:05 <Gonozal_VIII> do thay have internet in that dublin place?
22:23:09 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: I don't like fixing my bugs
22:23:22 <fjb> Ok, compiling r12345. :-)
22:23:30 <glx> I try to add bug free code
22:24:02 <Gonozal_VIII> there is no such thing as bug free code
22:24:11 <glx> it was not a fatal one, just annoying
22:24:33 <Prof_Frink> Oh, adding bug free code is easy
22:24:54 <Prof_Frink> Just make sure it starts with /* and ends with */
22:25:13 <fjb> That will be a bug in Pascal.
22:25:17 <glx> #if 0 ... #endif is safer
22:25:27 <SmatZ> you can make uncompilable code even when it starts with /* and ends with */
22:28:02 <fjb> /* ... /* ... */ ... */ thinks like that can lead to errors.
22:29:49 <SmatZ> :) though you will receive compiler warnings
22:31:22 <fjb> Depends on how advanced the compiler is. The VAX C compiler was very advanced.
22:35:26 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Where did you get the vehicle pool patch?
22:37:36 <fjb> Oh. I think I found kind of a bug. A grf reising the base cost raises it for every grf, even if that is in its own pool.
22:38:14 <glx> fjb: happens without this patch too
22:38:49 <fjb> Yes, I know, but I thought the pools should decouple the grfs.
22:39:12 <SmatZ> what GRF should it affect if not all?
22:39:24 * SmatZ thinks it is correct behaviour
22:40:38 <fjb> But one GRF toying with the base cost can make the pools mostly useless.
22:41:07 <Gonozal_VIII> then tell the grf authors not to toy with the base costs
22:41:46 <fjb> Then they have trouble to make expensive vehicles. George hat that problem with LV4.
22:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> then make the range bigger instead
22:43:17 *** jez is now known as jez9999
22:43:24 <jez9999> I'm having trouble building OpenTTD NoAI
22:43:31 <fjb> That would break the nfo specification.
22:43:49 <glx> jez9999: what kind of troubles?
22:43:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it would extend the NFO specification
22:43:53 <Gonozal_VIII> change the nfo specification :-)
22:44:48 <SmatZ> jez9999: what revision is the first you have problems with?
22:44:50 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: I don't think that could be easily done in TTDP. But we should ask Dale Stan.
22:45:24 <jez9999> i dont have any of those editions, i have VS8.0 :-)
22:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: for example there is a standard introduction date, and then there is a long introduction date when the range got extended
22:45:39 <glx> if you can build openttd, you can build noai
22:46:55 <SmatZ> Chrill: what king of comments would you like? Is it North America?
22:47:01 <jez9999> doesnt openTTD use SDL?
22:47:09 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: But that would make TTDP and OpenTTD incompatible. And TTDP is the reference for GRFs.
22:47:18 <Chrill> It's a random map. More like, suggestions for improvements, or if it's looking good so far, SmatZ
22:47:27 <jez9999> isnt SDL much more lightweight than the whole directX sdk?
22:47:30 <jez9999> i'd rather use it :-)
22:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: no, the grf spec is the reference for grfs
22:48:07 <glx> jez9999: sdl is just a wrapper over GDI or DX
22:48:22 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: But TTDP is the reference implementation. At least nobody will use it if it doesn't work in TTDP.
22:49:04 <Patrick`> TTDP is the reference but they keep changing the code to make it incompatible with us
22:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: but that is the problem of TTDP, not of the grf spec
22:49:44 <fjb> I don't think you can decouple TTDP and the grf spec.
22:49:48 <Patrick`> oh, TTDP stopped doing that?
22:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: nobody asked for that
22:50:47 <glx> the grf specs are quite stable
22:50:56 <fjb> We can ask Dale Stan what he thinks about your idea if he comes online.
22:54:11 <DorpsGek> fjb: I have not seen dale.
22:54:24 <DorpsGek> fjb: I have not seen Dale_stan.
22:55:37 <fjb> Then we have to wait till he comes back.
22:56:59 <fjb> There is more than one GRF that has to chage the base cost or even uses base costs of other vehicle classes.
22:57:07 <jez9999> is the plan eventually to merge openttd noAI into the main branch?
22:57:37 <fjb> Would a bigger range for vehicle costs be hard to implement in OpenTTD?
22:58:06 <glx> jez9999: it's far from finished
22:58:10 <jez9999> for me that would really complete openTTD
22:58:20 <jez9999> having all the current patches and the customizable AI
22:58:32 <jez9999> kinda makes the game as it ideally would have been in the first place :-) really fun to play
22:58:53 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC
22:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> "all the patches" will hardly get in
22:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: i guess it would be quite easy
22:59:54 <jez9999> i meant the ones currently in the main branch
23:00:35 <jez9999> (now it also has customizable faces :-D)
23:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> the "main branch" does not have any patches
23:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> the "main branch" is the main reference, like the name suggests... all "patches" have to be relative to that
23:02:10 <jez9999> it has a 'configure patches' area; that's what i mean
23:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is a big misnomer ;)
23:02:42 <jez9999> they are patches... on the original reverse-engineered ttd code
23:02:43 <Gonozal_VIII> are you trying to make up for the lack of dalestan eddi?
23:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have always said that...
23:03:55 *** Axamentia has joined #openttd
23:04:06 <glx> I called them "advanced configuration" in french
23:04:48 <Gonozal_VIII> advanced configuration isn't french :-)
23:05:06 <jez9999> well anyway the current config options and noAI
23:05:11 <jez9999> would make it pretty much perfect
23:05:25 <jez9999> of course the track copy/paste stuff in the MiniIN is nice but it almost feels like cheating
23:05:30 <jez9999> no work to create a cloverleaf :-)
23:05:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is no such thing as "perfect"
23:05:44 <Gonozal_VIII> why don't you just use the noai branch? it was synced with trunk not long ago
23:05:49 <ln-> couldn't someone just change the "configure patches" string to something more appropriate once and for all?
23:05:56 <jez9999> im working to get my machine to be able to compile it now
23:06:00 <jez9999> it's a bit involved...
23:06:14 <Patrick`> or at least remove some patch options to a config file
23:06:22 <jez9999> not sure whether this old directx7 SDK will be good enough to compile it
23:06:27 <Patrick`> the list just keeps growing
23:06:35 <jez9999> trouble is, the directx sdk available now is November, which the wiki page says is too late
23:06:38 <jez9999> i need an earlier version
23:06:58 <jez9999> but this version i have is ancient, like 1999
23:07:54 <jez9999> "You should not use a version newer then August 2007 as DirectMusic is no longer support as of the November 2007 release."
23:08:01 <jez9999> so, like, where do i get the Aug 2007 release
23:09:10 <glx> not easy to find (as often there)
23:09:34 <fjb> UKRS or DBset is also changing the base cost. So you can not mix them. Same goes for LV4 and any other road vehicles set.
23:09:39 <jez9999> Validation Required though
23:09:42 *** Frostregen_ has joined #openttd
23:09:48 <jez9999> need a bullsh*t-free download
23:09:54 <mrfrenzy> hmm, I just built 12328 with the copypaste patch using BuildOTTD, why does it get version r12328M?
23:11:22 <Gonozal_VIII> ah, you mean because it should be able to work with unmodified 12328?
23:11:36 <mrfrenzy> yes, I don't want to have to rebuilt my server
23:11:42 <mrfrenzy> as the patch is completely client side
23:11:42 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess you have to force the version there, but don't ask me, i never did that
23:11:54 *** keyweed_ has joined #openttd
23:12:07 <mrfrenzy> it also says on the patch thread it should work with unmodfied server
23:12:08 <jez9999> think i found the August 2007 SDK :-)
23:12:22 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
23:12:22 <jez9999> as for the MS platform SDK; doesn't it come with CS 2003?
23:12:26 <mrfrenzy> is this a "feature" of BuildOTTD?
23:13:02 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think that buildottd is able to do that
23:13:32 <mrfrenzy> I mean is it buildottd that added the M automatically?
23:15:11 *** Morloth|Pack is now known as Morloth
23:15:46 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
23:21:25 <jez9999> installing directX sdk
23:21:32 <jez9999> this is one heck of a heavy load of stuff
23:24:25 <fjb> You could use UNIX and a cross compiling kit.
23:25:39 <glx> you can also disable directmusic in project config
23:25:57 <jez9999> why? that's the whole reason i downloaded this version of the sdk
23:26:15 <glx> you can have the music without direct music :)
23:26:23 <jez9999> then why does the wiki say use the Aug version
23:26:35 <fjb> UNIX, a modern, widely used operating system.
23:26:47 <glx> because MSVC builds can have directmusic
23:26:53 <jez9999> UNIX is an old, rarely-used operating system
23:27:02 <jez9999> actually it's a family of them
23:27:52 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm follow_track.cpp is gone
23:28:31 <fjb> UNIX including the BSD branch is widely used today, so are some clones like Linux and AIX.
23:28:50 <jez9999> you said UNIX, not clones
23:29:10 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Yes, I had the same problem some hous ago.
23:29:34 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: You have to reintroduce it.
23:30:22 <fjb> glx: Ofcourse OSX, half of it is BSD, the other half is the Mach kernel and the graphical user interface.
23:31:18 *** bumblebee has joined #openttd
23:33:39 <fjb> Solaris (UNIX Sytem V) is one of the most modern operating sytems.
23:35:03 <Gonozal_VIII> what's that bitshift stuff in rail_cmd.cpp?
23:36:34 <SpComb> hmm, missing classes because of OpenTTD
23:37:27 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: cut the << 16 stuff.
23:38:02 <Gonozal_VIII> but yapp introduces that...
23:38:25 <Gonozal_VIII> and trunk has different names for the trackdirs...
23:39:30 <fjb> jez9999: A lot of companies and even people on their PCs are using Solaris. And BSD is also widely used.
23:39:42 <jez9999> depends how you define 'a lot', i guess
23:40:04 <Gonozal_VIII> but doesn't matter... i wanted to wait for new yapp version anyways
23:40:11 <fjb> jez9999: It is always used when you need releiable systems.
23:40:20 <Gonozal_VIII> all the other patches are at 12345 now
23:40:32 <jez9999> woot, MS platform sdk now installed too
23:44:13 <jez9999> how long does this thing usually take to build from, scratch?
23:44:21 <jez9999> from memory, it's a couple of minutes
23:45:38 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: It is not that hard to get YAPP working with current trunk.
23:45:51 <Gonozal_VIII> yes but i want new yapp^^
23:46:28 <fjb> Current YAPP has only few bugs.
23:46:49 <jez9999> what does YAPP stand for?
23:47:01 <Gonozal_VIII> and i talked to vikthor, he will update his stuff today
23:49:47 <fjb> I'm voting for separate base costs for every GRF in the pool.
23:50:06 <jez9999> hmm, i've now successfully compiled NoAI
23:50:16 <jez9999> now i need to figure out how to get a custom AI :-)
23:51:48 <jez9999> aren't there any kind of good AIs already written?
23:52:34 <fjb> Don't think so. noAI didn't get released yet and is far from ready yet.
23:53:37 <jez9999> could be fun writing one
23:53:46 <jez9999> probably one of those things that sounds fun, but when you write it it gets boring
23:53:52 <fjb> You can be the first one who writes a new ai.
23:54:03 <jez9999> nah there are already 2 or 3
23:54:11 <jez9999> wrightAI and overambitiousAI
23:54:57 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: he will need to write the API first ;)
23:55:13 <Gonozal_VIII> nah, he will bug you to write it ;-)
23:59:51 <fjb> How many vehicles per class are possible with the pools?
continue to next day ⏵
