IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-02-09
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00:00:17 <Gonozal_VIII> (some formula of speed, distance, nice value) <-- dropdown 0-7 or something
00:00:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: no, when the "fast" train gets back to the main track (which is unrealistic, usually the slow train switches lanes)
00:01:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> the "slow" train is already waiting at the signal
00:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> so as soon as the fast train releases the switch, the slow train reserves the track
00:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> it can't reserve the normal track, because the train is still in the way
00:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> so it reserves the overtaking track
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00:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the "fast" train cannot go on, because the overtaking track reserves the way to the main track again (to guarantee overtaking completed)
00:03:57 <Gonozal_VIII> well, that sucks then
00:04:06 <Gonozal_VIII> don't use trains with different speed :P
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00:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think you can make it work the way Tekky described it, have 4 types of reservation
00:10:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> full: this is the area where the train would stand if it stopped at the next signal
00:10:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> strong: this is the area where the train will go no matter what
00:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> weak: this is the area where the train will go unless he is intercepted
00:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> lookahead: this is where the train would go if he could do as he pleased
00:11:51 <Gonozal_VIII> what's the difference between full and strong?
00:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> strong is the way between where the train is now and where he might stop
00:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> the point is that strong is expected to get free soon
00:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> whereas full might stay full for a while, when the train is waiting
00:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> full is always one train length backwards from the next signal
00:15:01 <Gonozal_VIII> so reservation needs 3 bit
00:15:27 <Gonozal_VIII> still 3 options left then^^
00:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> more like a bitmask
00:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> a tile might be full reserved by the slow train, and lookahead reserved by the fast train behind it
00:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> then the slow train will switch lanes, because that is lookahead reserved with lower priority
00:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> the fast train will then overtake on the right track
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00:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> you get the idea?
00:18:24 <Gonozal_VIII> sounds complicated
00:18:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> gets worse if you want to store a priority value and a train number with the reservation
00:20:04 <Gonozal_VIII> you can store that in the train
00:20:20 <Gonozal_VIII> bitmask for reservation
00:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> not if you want to resolve the train which reserved the track while reserving for another train
00:20:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> the priority value is dynamic
00:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> it increases when the train apporaches
00:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> train may have priority -30 on one tile, and -25 on the next
00:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> priorities are usually signed
00:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> so you have 0 as the default value
00:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> and can both assign lower and higher priorities for special occasions
00:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> and also, negative number is usually the higher priority
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00:47:31 <Tekky> Eddi: Actually, I define a "weak" reservation differently. By making a "weak" reservation, you are telling other trains: "You may use this track for now, as long as you promise that you won't get stuck on this piece of track, because I will be needing this piece of track myself in the near future or I may risk causing a deadlock."
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00:48:36 <Tekky> Eddi: In other words, a "weak" reservation permits other trains to make "strong" reservations but not "full" reservations.
00:48:59 <Tekky> Eddi: Otherwise there would be the risk of a deadlock.
00:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i won't believe it until you show the patch ;)
00:52:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> but that doesn't exclude my explanation
00:52:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> my version said "i want to go here, but not immediately, so you can still cross"
00:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> the "but don't make full reservation" bit sounds interesting, though
00:58:08 <Tekky> Eddi: <Eddi|zuHause2> weak: this is the area where the train will go unless he is intercepted <--- your formulation was very different :)
00:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i need a pathfinder penalty for taking the left branch of a switch
00:58:33 <Tekky> Eddi: but I am happy with your new formulation.
00:59:33 <Gonozal_VIII> hm, i need a pathfinder penalty for taking the left branch of a switch <--?
01:00:15 <Tekky> Eddi: Yes, I had the same problem too. We need a facility for adding an additonal weight for every trackpiece :)
01:00:47 <Tekky> Eddi: Or at least for every track segment.
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01:02:01 <Tekky> but it would be a waste of memory to store it in the map array.
01:02:22 <Tekky> as there are about 10 possible track pieces per tile.
01:02:58 <Tekky> well, we need to be able to specify the weight for every direction, so 12.
01:03:27 <Tekky> so this will have to be stored externally from the map array.
01:03:43 <Gonozal_VIII> reservation array?^^
01:04:24 <Tekky> well, this feature won't be used much, anyway, the user will only want to specify 100 track pieces per map to have additional weights.
01:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: when there are two equivalent paths through a signal block the right one is usually the less blocking one
01:05:09 <Gonozal_VIII> what if the train has to turn left?
01:05:44 <Gonozal_VIII> then it will probably turn right tree times instead^^
01:05:51 <Tekky> it will still do so, we are only taking about additonal weights.
01:06:43 <Tekky> the pathfinder will then still take the "bad" route if the "good" route is not available.
01:08:10 <Tekky> we only want to discourage the pathfinder from taking a specific route.
01:08:20 <Tekky> and not to forbid it from doing so.
01:09:01 <Tekky> Eddi: Do you think it would be enough to specify an additional weight for a specific trackdir on a specific tile?
01:09:57 <Tekky> Eddi: in order to solve your problem? I have been thinking about making such a patch. It should be easy to implement, the main work is making a GUI where you can define these tiles, trackdirs and weights.
01:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> Tekky: no, i think a global yapf penalty for left and right should suffice, default to equal
01:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> alternately, let users specify which one is the main track and which one is the branching track
01:11:17 <Tekky> hmmmmm, let me post a screenshot where I think such a global penalty won't be sufficient.... just a moment...
01:14:40 <Gonozal_VIII> i like the others better
01:14:50 <Gonozal_VIII> i can actually read them^^
01:15:28 <Tekky> there is the screenshot.
01:15:41 <Gonozal_VIII> screenshot on rapidshare...
01:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> an image hoster might have been more useful ;)
01:16:05 <Tekky> what's wrong with entering a 4-digit code? :)
01:16:16 <Tekky> you can still view it inline with your browser.
01:16:20 <Gonozal_VIII> the entering a 4-digit code part ;-)
01:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> Tekky: afaik, YAPF also tries to minimise the number of crossings
01:16:56 <Gonozal_VIII> that's a hugeish station
01:17:43 <Tekky> On this screenshot, you can see two trains trying to leave the station. One train has now reserved a route in the screenshot. However, it should have turned right immediately, so that the second train could also have reserved a path out of the station.
01:18:02 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't need 6 lines in and out to serve a 12 platform station
01:18:19 <Gonozal_VIII> a single line can fill 5 platforms easily
01:18:39 <Gonozal_VIII> depending on the speed and length of the trains...
01:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> my double track lines usually end at a 4 track station
01:19:25 <Tekky> well, I like my station that way :)
01:20:00 <Tekky> I was mainly experimenting....
01:20:09 <Gonozal_VIII> you can overload the station and still have 3 lines free :-)
01:21:07 <Gonozal_VIII> sure i've seen the cube thingies with white stuff but i can't read them while i can read the road signs ;-)
01:22:41 <Tekky> Eddi: minimizing the number of crossings doesn't seem to help here.
01:23:11 <Tekky> Eddi: The only thing that would help would be to be able to add a specific weight for a specific trackdir on a specific tile.
01:23:29 <Gonozal_VIII> but what would help? would need an ai to figure out the best path
01:24:09 <Tekky> the user can then manually add specific weights for specific track pieces.
01:24:33 <Tekky> that way, I could discourage the train from doing what it did in my screenshot.
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01:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but that needs very much micromanagement
01:25:27 <Tekky> well, there won't be many situations where you will be needing this.
01:25:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> more useful would be a "station planner" that can explicitely prefer certain routes from one platform
01:25:38 <Gonozal_VIII> and you can't see it right away how it is set... you would have to click on every tile to check
01:26:28 <Tekky> Eddi: are you suggesting that the preferred routes should be stored from signal to signal?
01:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, something like that
01:29:26 <Gonozal_VIII> buuut i would say all that can wait until the more basic features of pbs work correctly ;-)
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01:33:52 <Gekz> I know you from somewhere...
01:34:03 <Gekz> could it be a drunken computer rage aftermath?
01:34:11 <Gonozal_VIII> [02:33:29] *** Nickname already in use. Please choose another (/nick {name}).
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01:36:19 * You have been disconnected from IRC. Please reconnect.
01:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> been there, done that
01:37:31 <Gonozal_VIII> there was a whole conversation with nicks like that
01:37:37 <Gonozal_VIII> that was fun :-)
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02:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> so... which idiot made me open bash today?
02:07:17 <Gonozal_VIII> that would be sacro
02:07:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, it's always bjarni
02:10:59 <glx> Sacro did post a bash link 25 min before bjarni
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02:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> your intartubes are teh borken
02:17:16 <Gonozal_VIII> other guy downloading and downloading and downloading..
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02:42:28 <Phantasm> Sure is nice to have 25k people town in 1963 with 100 fountains/statues.
02:42:42 <Phantasm> Make that 100 of both.
02:43:05 <Phantasm> Nope. Just enough traffic and it goes to 25k when starting from 1950.
02:43:21 <Gonozal_VIII> there's a setting for that
02:43:48 <Phantasm> And the town is such that it has those stupid and almost useless fountains/statues in the middle of it.
02:43:59 <Phantasm> Like every other building is statue/fountain near the middle.
02:44:37 <Gonozal_VIII> towns often have big squares and parks in their center...
02:46:29 <Gekz> we need to write a town ai
02:47:12 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r12089 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup: re-order, yet another time, the files in msvc projects
02:49:44 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r12090 /trunk/src/ (economy_type.h player_base.h player_gui.cpp): -Codechange : removed a magic number and code style application on enum ExpensesType
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03:03:22 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r12091 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange : remove all production level magic numbers and replace them by enums
03:04:38 <urlauber> hi there. is it possible to change the vehicle breakdown behaviour on a dedicated server somehow?
03:05:28 <glx> like all difficulty settings
03:05:50 <urlauber> so I have to restart the game, right?
03:06:27 <glx> maybe one day they will be modifiable from console
03:07:07 <Phantasm> Improved loading algorith sure is nice.. I can now send 40 ships to a dock at same time without worries.
03:07:28 <glx> yes it's a real fifo loading now
03:07:30 <Phantasm> The game just lags a bit when I click the green button on depot.
03:07:40 <urlauber> this would be great! thx, bye!
03:07:45 <glx> disable yapf and npf for ships
03:08:25 <Phantasm> YAPF is disabled, how do I disable NPF just for ships?
03:09:32 <Phantasm> I want to disallow trains doing 90 degree turns.
03:10:01 <Phantasm> The patch setting says it requires NPF.
03:10:34 <Phantasm> How much will disabling NPF affect the pathing of trains?
03:10:52 <Phantasm> And if YAPF is in use for everything else than ships, will it affect anything else?
03:11:15 <saati> how does openttd calculate time in transport for cargo? time elapsed since it is in the station, since it's loaded on a vehicle or since it started from the station?
03:11:30 <glx> yapf has priority over npf
03:11:51 <Phantasm> How will ships path without NPF?
03:12:01 <glx> so if yapf is enabled for a vehicle type, npf is not used for this type
03:12:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r12092 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:
03:12:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix(r11532)[FS#1755]: Make sure the production level will not get out of delimited boundaries, while using var result 0D/0E and than multiplying/dividing it.
03:12:16 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: And use multiply/divide operations instead of shifting. It does the same, just adds a bit more readability
03:12:17 <glx> (the original pathfinder)
03:12:32 <glx> it needs buoys, but is less resource eater
03:13:03 <Phantasm> I wonder how the pathfinder works as it doesn't seem to affect how big the lake is.
03:14:11 <glx> it considers each water tile has all tracks (in train sense)
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03:14:56 <Phantasm> So with a long distance on very big water are it would need to do a lot of work, while on a small water area it should be fast?
03:15:12 <saati> is the path search algorithm documented somewhere or use the source luke?
03:15:14 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause3, fs1754, how does it look in ttdpatch?
03:15:14 <Phantasm> Yet, I don't see the difference.
03:15:55 <glx> each tile is a junction, so it needs to try a lot of path to find the best
03:18:29 <Phantasm> 200 squares long route, about straight, on a sea with few obstacles and a total of a couple hundred thousand tiles. Lag of sending 20 ships at once is about same as it is in 40 squares route on sea area with 500 tiles.
03:20:40 <saati> that looks an awfoul lot like an api doc
03:22:22 <glx> I know some parts of code are very well detailed, don't know if pf are in this case
03:22:25 <Belugas> it is a documetation generated out of the sources themselves
03:22:55 <Phantasm> Is there a documentation on how fluctuating economy works on industry production levels? What are the odds for production going up/down depending on rating etc.
03:23:16 <glx> hmm there's a blog entry about that
03:23:27 <saati> in wich file is yapf.FindPath?
03:23:47 <Gekz> grep yapf.FindPath -Ri ./
03:24:33 <saati> i would need a checked out svn copy for that
03:24:44 <Phantasm> Especially, what does "If the service achieves excellent or outstanding ratings, industry tries to fill the increased demand for cargo." mean in reality?
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03:26:04 <sadfsdg> i've been called a developer :D
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07:50:27 <LordAzamath> As I can understand, you can define new objects like like current lighthouses there
07:50:55 <peter1138> You would be able to if it had been finished. Possibly even if it had been started.
07:51:14 <DaleStan> It's his baby, and only he has any clue what's going on there.
07:51:22 <LordAzamath> so it's just documentation, but no features yet?
07:52:59 <DaleStan> The loaders for props 08..0A are present in Patch, but I suspect they load the data into what might as well be /dev/null
07:53:41 <LordAzamath> so I'll drop new Objects atm :P
07:54:35 <peter1138> Why/how do people twist things so?
07:55:27 <peter1138> I had PM asking me if they can use more than 116 train IDs in OpenTTD and TTDPatch...
07:56:36 <LordAzamath> khmkhm engine pools khmkhm
08:00:30 <LordAzamath> btw, how ready are you with it?
08:02:33 <peter1138> I gave up. Those bastards didn't want it in trunk!
08:04:58 <LordAzamath> hmm.. peter1138 can you give me a link to that diff? I want to compile that patch to see what it really does...
08:05:25 <peter1138> Compiling it won't tell you anything...
08:06:45 <LordAzamath> I'll better learn more nfo today :D
08:07:03 * LordAzamath is trying to get a simple animation
08:11:11 <LordAzamath> a plane which has a flag when it flies
08:11:19 <LordAzamath> and that flag is animated
08:11:31 <LordAzamath> dih once asked if I could do it :P
08:11:48 <LordAzamath> and it's a good thing o learn too
08:12:50 <LordAzamath> Am I right when I should just define a set of sprites for animation with action1, give it an ID with action2 and then use it somehow?
08:13:38 <peter1138> Well you'll need a varaction 2 to select which animation frame to draw.
08:13:51 <LordAzamath> var2 frightnens me
08:13:53 <peter1138> Probably either the tick counter or the movement counter
08:13:56 <LordAzamath> but I'll be brave
08:14:15 <peter1138> Tick counter'll be constant speed, movement counter will vary with vehicle speed.
08:14:52 <peter1138> There are some ginormous pigeons in my garden.
08:19:17 <peter1138> Yes it is that, although possibly it doesn't work for aircraft.
08:19:31 <LordAzamath> then I'll use tick counter
08:20:57 <peter1138> 124% of an estimated 8k tonnes transported
08:21:18 <LordAzamath> well... it's estimated
08:21:22 <peter1138> I guess their estimate was shit :)
08:38:55 <LordAzamath> but at first I'll try to understand how to make different graohics for flying/landed planes
09:05:20 <Roujin> hm gotta go again ^^ cheers Lord, good luck with your projects. OpenGFX ftw ;)
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09:54:07 <LordAzamath> it should replace Bakewell Cotzwald graphhics...
09:54:15 <LordAzamath> but it doesn't :(
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10:03:27 <LordAzamath> renum doesn't complain on anything..
10:12:16 <LordAzamath> ok, I changed one thing, it now works
10:12:30 <LordAzamath> but still, it uses wrong sprites
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10:34:54 <LordAzamath> hmm.. fault found :)
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10:47:40 <Gonozal_VIII> can i do char x = some_integer_between_0_and_9 + '0'; ?
10:53:10 <GT> Depends on what you want to achieve
10:53:40 <Gonozal_VIII> i want to convert 0-9 to '0' - '9'
10:55:05 <GT> orudge: char x[20]; sprintf(x, "%d", int_to_convert);
10:55:56 <GT> mmm, or seems to convert to orudge automagically
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11:01:33 <Gonozal_VIII> not really morning for me, i didn't sleep yet
11:02:06 <Forked> it's noon here.. just trying to wake up and make what little remains of last night go away :)
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11:08:38 <Gonozal_VIII> c++ vars are so complicated :-/
11:10:12 <Gonozal_VIII> how the hell do i return a string
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11:28:24 <LordAzamath> action4 doesn't work for me :(...
11:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> strings are pointers
11:28:29 * LordAzamath is going bughunting
11:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> or in openttd, strings are referenced by string ids
11:40:22 <yorick> Gonozal_VIII: I've read the logs, it seems that svn diff wasn't comparing them correctly or I didn't do it correctly.
11:47:49 * LordAzamath is going to try harder stuff
11:48:02 <LordAzamath> like caalbacks and stuff
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11:58:48 <LordAzamath> <Sprite-number> * <Length> 02 <feature> <set-id> <type> <variable> <varadjust> [<operator> <variable> <varadjust>]... <nvar> (<set-id> <low-range> <high-range>){n} <default>
11:58:56 <LordAzamath> what is <type> there?
11:59:09 <LordAzamath> I can'r find reference anywhere :(
12:03:32 <yorick> Gonozal_VIII: I've read the logs, it seems that svn diff wasn't comparing them correctly or I didn't do it correctly.
12:04:02 <yorick> I've just modified your patch now
12:04:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> LordAzamath: we have a saying in germany: "Wer lesen kann, ist schwer im Vorteil"
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12:05:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> " The access type specifies both the size of the variable access, and selects between general variables and the object's innate variables, or variables of a specific "related" object."
12:05:11 <LordAzamath> I ***always*** miss that part :(
12:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> wuargh... TTDP scares me
12:07:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> their AI places airports on slopes
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12:14:15 <LordAzamath> humm... I think I'm getting somewhere... the variable is 44, because I want to have different sprites when it's above ground (plane)..
12:18:00 <LordAzamath> ok and now I'm stuck again.. :(
12:18:58 <xand> hi... is it possible to disable a) the news messages that popup at the bottom of the screen (they are constant on a large map) and b) industry opening/closure? I can't see options for either
12:19:16 <LordAzamath> at configure messages
12:19:32 <LordAzamath> ok actually 'Message settings'
12:20:22 <LordAzamath> in drop down menu from the second last button on main toolbar
12:20:48 <xand> ah... was looking in the settings menu
12:21:13 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r12093 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not set station owner for buoys when merging company
12:23:25 <xand> LordAzamath: do you know if the industry opening/closure can be changed?
12:23:51 <LordAzamath> you mean messages?
12:24:22 <LordAzamath> there is option 'open/close industries'
12:25:27 <xand> no, prevent industries closing down or new ones opening
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12:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> or use the cheat to adjust production values manually
12:30:26 <Belugas> xand, no way of preventing closure/appearance of industries, apart write a grf that does that.
12:30:38 <LordAzamath> or use a patch...
12:31:11 <LordAzamath> btw, Belugas, Eddi|zuHause3 or someone, are you familiar with varAction2?
12:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> LordAzamath: you have a REAL question for once?
12:31:40 <Belugas> internal code wise yes, nfo wise no, LordAzamath
12:31:55 <Belugas> and /me is going back to real life
12:31:58 <LordAzamath> then I'll ask Eddi :P
12:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: i can't get the office buildings to appear in TTDP
12:32:53 <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause3: I'm trying to get a grf, so that a plane on ground has one sprites, and other when flying
12:32:59 <xand> and you can't rotate the map like you can in locomotion?
12:33:05 <LordAzamath> I have defined two sets with action1
12:33:22 <LordAzamath> and I'm stuck with var2
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12:33:59 <LordAzamath> <Sprite-number> * <Length> 02 <feature> <set-id> <type> <variable> <varadjust> <nvar> (<set-id> <low-range> <high-range>){n} <default>
12:34:15 <LordAzamath> -1 * 00 02 03 0a 03 44 ...
12:34:36 <LordAzamath> is what I have understood (possibly wrong..)
12:34:54 <LordAzamath> so what do I have to do with varadjust?
12:35:27 <urlauber> is there a way to disable those "dbg: [NET][UDP] Queried from..." messages in a dedicated server?
12:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> "type" must be one of 81, 85, 89
12:36:35 <LordAzamath> why not Vehicles (00-03) First vehicle of consist
12:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, that table only explains what "related object" means
12:37:25 <LordAzamath> so what should I use?
12:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> 81: this object, byte
12:37:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> 82: related object, byte
12:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> 85: this object, word
12:38:13 <LordAzamath> hmm.. because it's about plane, I thikn it's 81 then
12:40:03 <LordAzamath> but variable is 44...
12:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it depends on the size of the variable
12:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> e.g. variable 44 is size DWord
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12:40:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> so you need type 89
12:41:13 <LordAzamath> ok.. why do I need varadjust?
12:41:32 <LordAzamath> it says for better ranges
12:41:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> to mask out the bits that do not interest you
12:41:54 * LordAzamath is completely lost
12:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> like if you only want the height, and not the target airport, you mask out the airport bits
12:42:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> say value of var 44 is 0x12345678, and 56 are the height bits
12:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> then you mask the value with 0x0000FF00
12:43:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> and then rightshift 8 bits
12:43:03 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3, you can use 81 on a dword variable
12:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> peter1138: yes, i know
12:43:14 <peter1138> you just end up with 8 bits after shifting and masking
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12:46:39 <hylje> all the source files are .cpp
12:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> xand: new patches won't apply against 0.5.3
12:47:15 <xand> hylje: not in the source I downloaded.. they're all .c
12:47:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> xand: you got 0.5.x source, get newer one
12:48:07 <LordAzamath> hmm.. so shift num would be 02, because I want the third value?
12:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> each hex digit represents 4 bits
12:50:31 <LordAzamath> 1f couldn't be 4 in the other way
12:51:53 <LordAzamath> so the shift num should be 17, to get to third byte?
12:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> "1F" is two hex digits
12:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> LordAzamath: depends on from which side they count, but sensible values are either 8 or 16
12:55:23 <LordAzamath> shift-num and AND-mask are?
12:55:37 <LordAzamath> and mask you said is 00 00 ff 00
12:55:49 <LordAzamath> but what I'll finally write to shift num
12:56:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> you probably need to reverse endianness
12:57:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> and shift num you can probably ignore, if you only want to test "0 or not 0"
12:57:55 <LordAzamath> ignoring means that I'll write there? 00?
12:58:49 <LordAzamath> hmm what about this: [<add-val> <divide-val>/<modulo-val>]
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13:00:01 <LordAzamath> this time ignore means, I'll jsut not write it?
13:01:37 <LordAzamath> and nvar is 01, because I check one range, if it's not on air, I'll use default :P
13:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, other way round
13:02:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> you check the range if it is on the ground (between 0 and 0)
13:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> and use default if you are in the air
13:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> one range, plus default
13:03:13 <LordAzamath> brb /dog walking/
13:12:10 <LordAzamath> now to this part (<set-id> <low-range> <high-range>){n}
13:13:09 <LordAzamath> set ID let's put 0b
13:13:32 <LordAzamath> because it optional what I'll set it
13:14:04 <LordAzamath> low and high ranges are 00 both
13:14:14 <LordAzamath> because I want it to be exactly 0
13:14:35 <LordAzamath> but what is that {n} ?
13:15:24 <LordAzamath> I guess it's for 'You repeat the sequence of <set-id> <low-range> <high-range> as often as <nvar> specifies.'
13:15:48 <LordAzamath> and default would be.. let's say 0c
13:16:35 <LordAzamath> now I'll define two normal action2s, one for 0b, other for 0c
13:16:50 <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause3, am I right
13:18:53 <LordAzamath> or do I have to define two normal action2s before var2?
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13:21:56 <xand> not sure what I'm doing wrong... trying to compile 0.6.0 beta3 on debian but when I try to run openttd it says: "openttd: /home/alex/openttd-0.6.0-beta3/src/openttd.cpp:111: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed."... I have followed the instructions at http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Compiling_on_Linux
13:24:09 <Horscht> I was wondering how I would be able to make openttd (currently using the 6.0 beta 3) to not create an Openttd folder in the "my documents" folder on windows (XP SP2), but instead make it look for the config in the folder i installed it to. I am asking this, because i want my openttd to be "portable". I have simply unzipped it to a USB stick and would like to be able to run it from there, carying my config with me etc.
13:24:21 <Horscht> how would I go about doing that?
13:24:53 <peter1138> move the config to your folder
13:25:41 <Horscht> would that work? If I went to another PC, it would aotumatically detect it
13:25:57 <Horscht> and it would not create an openttd folder in "my documents"?
13:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> LordAzamath: the normal action 2 must be defined before the varaction2
13:27:25 <Sacro> it has an eminiem fetish ><
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13:27:58 <Horscht> wow, great. Thank you, didn't think it would be that easy, peter1138
13:29:52 <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause3: Thanks ALOT. now renum doesn't complain either :)
13:30:34 <LordAzamath> but one thing is that why did I have to define ranges as Dwords?
13:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> because you used type 89 (dword)
13:31:26 <LordAzamath> but didn't I mask it out?
13:31:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but masking only sets them 0, not make them disappear
13:32:03 <LordAzamath> but right shift? ah yea, I didn't use it
13:32:22 <glx> even shifting won't change the var size
13:32:28 <LordAzamath> so it is as such: 21 * 23 02 03 0a 89 44 00 00 ff 00 00 01 0b 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 0c 00
13:32:43 <LordAzamath> and renum doesn't complain :)
13:33:17 <Gekz> I want to hug your bhlood!
13:33:25 <Sacro> i think i've lost my grfcodec PKGBUILD D:
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13:36:40 <LordAzamath> it doesn't work :(
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13:43:03 <Sacro> svn co is slooooooooooooow d:
13:46:07 <LordAzamath> it only uses default 0c
13:46:14 <LordAzamath> whichever altitude plane has
13:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> then maybe it was the wrong bitmask ;)
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13:48:13 <LordAzamath> 00 00 ff 00 shows only 0b
13:48:49 <LordAzamath> or it doesn't change anything,,,
13:49:04 <LordAzamath> because original gfx are the same for plane 05
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13:53:46 <LordAzamath> glx: but in little endian it should be 00 ff 00 00..
13:55:21 <Sacro> 1 minute for ./configure && make -j2
13:55:46 <LordAzamath> but it never seems to get to stae, where min altitude and max altitude are 0
13:57:24 <LordAzamath> so 00 00 00 00 and 00 00 00 00 are wrong
13:58:18 <LordAzamath> can anyone give me a hint what are right values there?
13:59:07 <glx> well your code returns 00 0B for range 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00
14:00:03 <LordAzamath> I thought it was ground
14:00:16 <LordAzamath> but is it perhaps 01 00 00 00?
14:00:33 <LordAzamath> or what is the right value?
14:01:26 <LordAzamath> I thought it was ground, because it should be height 0..
14:05:01 <LordAzamath> Aircraft info (44) ormat: xxxxhhtt(available from 2.0.1 alpha 48)hh is the height of the aircraft above ground, or more properly above the height of its shadow. Buildings, including the heliport, don't count as "ground", i.e. to get the height above a heliport, you have to subtract the heliport height from hh.tt is the type of the current airport: 0=small, 1=large, 2=heliport, 3=oil rig. The current airport is the target airport for airc
14:05:30 <LordAzamath> but it doesn't say, what is the height of airport/ground..
14:08:02 <glx> try 00 00 00 00 04 00 00 00
14:08:22 <xand> can I make a vehicle wait for full loads of all cargo types?
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14:09:05 <glx> disable "full load of any"
14:11:30 <LordAzamath> glx, doesn't work
14:11:51 <LordAzamath> I even tried ff 00 00 00 for the second value, still doesn't work
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14:13:51 <glx> give me your grf, I'll try in debug mod :)
14:19:34 <xand> dragging track removal tool onto a tunnel = game quits with "Aborted" :|
14:26:11 <Gonozal_VIII> why are there 6 newlines at the end of main_gui.cpp?
14:26:44 <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: good luck
14:27:25 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: only 3 for me
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14:28:57 <Yorick> how do you manage to disconnect so often?
14:29:14 <Gonozal_VIII> other guy on router downloading stuff...
14:29:36 <Gonozal_VIII> router doesn't like that
14:29:36 <Yorick> is that a problem for your connection?
14:29:59 <Gonozal_VIII> drops ping stuff or something, no idea
14:30:49 <Forked> urrrgh! stupid dsl modem
14:30:52 <Forked> or at least the wlan part of it
14:35:57 <Yorick> it seems like the variable.h stuff has been moved to settings_type.h
14:37:26 <Yorick> there is no typedef struct Patches { in settings_type.h
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14:38:35 <Yorick> ah, that probably changed too
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14:51:06 <Gonozal_VIII> daylength 255 is fun :-)
14:54:31 <Gonozal_VIII> yep :-) i changed the upper limit from 30 to 255
14:54:51 <Gonozal_VIII> and added time display to the status bar
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14:58:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> but weren't there already "value out of range" errors with the current maximum?
15:00:01 <Yorick> I'm working on a "Enable rail crossing sound" patch option
15:00:12 <Sacro> there are a few already
15:00:31 <Yorick> and I want to learn coding openttd
15:02:17 <glx> if it can be done with grfs, your patch will never go in trunk :)
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15:03:11 <Yorick> but that is like needing to have knowledge just to disable the annoying crossing sound
15:03:19 <Yorick> +it won't work in MP or title screens
15:05:00 <Yorick> wouldn't it be nice to have a sound tab with a whole bunch of choices: "Enable rail crossing sound", "Enable new vehicle sound", "Enable sound for leaving train"
15:06:01 <Yorick> so you can have the news sound, but not the crossing sound or the "Oooooohhhh" sound
15:07:44 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r12094 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: use DC_BANKRUPT command flag when removing player property to allow further fixes
15:13:13 <Yorick> how can I access a patch value?
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15:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> why mixup between "play" and "enable"?
15:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> in settings_gui.cpp
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16:19:40 <Roujin> if any dev reads this, i'd like to know if the change made to the sign transparency option was intended or is a bug
16:21:01 <Roujin> meaning 'x' toggles sign transparency as well - that was different some time ago and comments in transparency_gui.cpp say it should still NOT be switched by 'x'
16:21:22 <Roujin> erm.. rather long ago i think
16:21:32 <Yorick> isn't that above the file?
16:21:44 <Roujin> i think it came with introduction of the transparency gui
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16:22:05 <DorpsGek> Yorick: Commit by belugas :: r12022 /trunk/src (4 files in 2 dirs) (2008-01-30 17:36:28 UTC)
16:22:06 <DorpsGek> Yorick: -Revert(r12018): Invisible trees are now separate from the building concept.
16:22:07 <DorpsGek> Yorick: So when you want invisible trees, just select the option of the same name in the Patch Options and toggle transparency of trees.
16:22:08 <DorpsGek> Yorick: More to come on the saga of Invisibility. So stay tuned.
16:22:37 <DorpsGek> Yorick: Commit by belugas :: r12018 /trunk/src (3 files) (2008-01-30 03:34:24 UTC)
16:22:38 <DorpsGek> Yorick: -Fix(FS#1721,r9563): Restore initial intent on the invisible tree while transparent building patch setting
16:27:27 <Yorick> 12022 is the lastest change to tranparency_gui
16:28:28 <Roujin> <Yorick> 12022 is the lastest change to tranparency_gui <-- i know, it was before this
16:28:50 <Roujin> i think it was introduced back when the transparency gui was introduced
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16:36:35 <Belugas> why should it be independant from toggling, Roujin?
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16:50:31 <Roujin> Belugas: because in my opinion (and the one who started the topic of my link above, so i'm not alone with this opinion), transparent signs is a choice one does for himself one time (which do i like better?) and keeps it like this all the time
16:51:44 <Roujin> that was how it was like before introduction of the transparency gui, and that is what the comments say in transparency_gui.cpp
16:52:36 <Roujin> the widget list is seperated by comments in two blocks: /* Widgets not toggled when pressing the X key */ and /* Widgets toggled when pressing the X key */
16:54:29 <Roujin> in this thread i also posted a more elaborate idea for the transparency window which could allow everyone to set "locks" for himself to choose which options are toggled by 'x' (non-locked) and which ones are not (locked)
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16:57:16 <peter1138> <Roujin> i think it was introduced back when the transparency gui was introduced
16:57:24 <peter1138> it was broken after that
16:59:41 <Roujin> does that mean it was not intentional?
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17:01:06 <Roujin> if so, i can offer my little patch, that makes the sign transparency option independent again from toggle transparency (link posted above)
17:01:44 <peter1138> well i and wolf01 did it that way originally intentionally
17:03:33 <Roujin> i see.. so you don't want to change it back i guess? then what about the other idea I wrote in that thread (with the locks)
17:07:02 <Roujin> well at least i'm not the only one who'd like to set this option and have it not toggle when pressing 'x'
17:09:12 <Wolf01> i made a patch to save the transparency between sessions in the .cfg, so you can save them and toggle only the ones you use offten
17:09:36 <peter1138> they are saved now, aren't they?
17:10:21 <Wolf01> yes, but differently as i intended when i made the patch
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17:12:10 <Roujin> well, this only helps when one does not touch the 'x' constantly but sets transparency to one setting and keeps it like this all the time
17:14:15 <Roujin> I like to play with trees and houses and stuff, except when I'm building something and don't see anything. Then I set most of the stuff to transparent (and I want that on 'x', not have to click one by one in the gui) and build. After that, I turn it visible again.
17:14:57 <Roujin> Except two options: Signs (i want them always transparent), and loading indicators (i want them always visible)
17:15:20 <Wolf01> loading indicators should be removed from there
17:15:56 <Wolf01> they have their own patch setting, and is not a transparency
17:17:09 <Roujin> one could put it in the dropdown though. and remove transparent houses and transparent signs as these are in the gui when we're at it.
17:18:13 <Wolf01> and another thing, i change transparencies all the time, so i don't need them saved, sometimes i need transparent trees, other times i need transparent houses, so i use very often the ctrl+number shortcuts, but i often enable more than one transparency and i want that X clear all the transparencies, that's why i made a widget to save them only if the player wants it
17:18:31 <Yorick> I think it would be a good idea to make a patch option "pathfinder to use for ..." instead of "Enable YAPF for Ships" and "Enable NPF (overrides NTP)"
17:19:49 * Yorick has just done a grepping action that made some 1,08gb file...
17:20:16 <Yorick> grepping for SND_15_BEEP is bad
17:21:20 <Roujin> wolf01: where's that widget?
17:22:22 <Wolf01> is still under work, but i don't have time to fix it and maintain it
17:22:48 <Roujin> is that a candidate for trunk when fixed?
17:23:12 <Roujin> in other works are you doing substantial work on transparency that's likely to go into trunk?
17:23:48 <peter1138> 305% of an estimated 8k tonnes transported
17:24:26 <Yorick> 1264% of an estimated 16,000k litres transported ;)
17:24:27 <Roujin> thats 24,04k tonnes :>
17:24:54 <Wolf01> when i do some work, i always submit it to developers, and they often modify the patch heavily (like peter1138 did with the first version of the transparency patch)
17:25:35 <DorpsGek> Yorick: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
17:25:37 <Wolf01> so i always try to make all the ideas i want and they use the best parts
17:26:43 <Wolf01> i wanted also to extend it with some presets, automatically enabled when opening toolbars, like transparent trees when building rail, or transparent houses when building roads, but i think it will be really useless, maybe in some cases it helps, but not always
17:27:16 <Roujin> made a mockup of it too
17:27:35 <Roujin> options could be locked with CTRL-Click on them
17:28:23 <Roujin> are you planning on something similar? (then i won't try to do it as you're probably better than me ;)
17:28:25 <Wolf01> if you can save it to .cfg, i think it should be made into trunk
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17:28:52 <Wolf01> if you want i can submit you the part to save the transparencies to .cfg
17:29:11 <Wolf01> so you need only to check if is locked or not
17:29:26 <Roujin> hello assassin, here have an 's' :P
17:29:35 <Madassasin> a question to those who know C and/or C++: what's the difference between char* and char[]? some say there's no difference, some say there is O_o
17:29:35 <Wolf01> (if is locked you save it)
17:29:37 * Roujin gives Madassasin another s
17:30:13 <peter1138> Wolf01, i thought transparency options were saved now?
17:30:22 <peter1138> at least, i have it as an option
17:30:24 <Yorick> I'll have to find another way to disable the beep when the patch set so
17:30:26 <Roujin> well the first is a pointer, the second an array...
17:30:41 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r12095 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1703]: when a company bankrupts, remove drive-through road stops, ship depots and buoys too. Update owners of water and road.
17:30:54 <peter1138> Madassasin, char* is a char pointer, char[] is a char array...
17:30:55 <Wolf01> they are saved, but it is not optional, or is it?
17:31:09 <peter1138> optional saving? why?
17:31:32 <Wolf01> 'cause not all players want it saved :)
17:31:54 <Madassasin> Roujin: yeah, but I often find people say that an the array's name is a pointer, my_array[0] and &myarray as well O_o
17:32:06 <Roujin> an array is initialized with a set size, its static. if you initialize a pointer, you still have to allocate memory for it and you can reallocate any time you want.. a difference for example
17:32:34 <glx> an array is like a malloced pointer
17:32:40 <Madassasin> Roujin: not exactly, C allows dynamic arrays
17:32:52 <Yorick> would it be with the code style if editing SndPlaxFx to return when trying to play the beep sound when that option is enabled instead of having to hunt for every occurence of SndPlayFx(SND_15_BEEP)?
17:34:54 <Madassasin> eg for example both `int main(int argc, char* argv[])' & `int main(int argc, char** argv)' work on most compilers
17:35:57 <Tron> <Madassasin> Roujin: not exactly, C allows dynamic arrays <--- depends on your definition of the word "dynamic", but most probably no
17:36:34 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r12096 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix: remove leftover property when loading older savegames
17:36:41 <peter1138> Yorick, better to replace all SndPlayFx(SND_15_BEEP) with SndBeep() or something... then do the necessary there?
17:37:11 <peter1138> hmm, £199 laptop. that's going to suck
17:37:39 <Yorick> yes, wouldn't it be that grepping for SndPlayFx(SND_15_BEEP) gives me a more-than-1-gb-file
17:37:39 <Tron> <Madassasin> eg for example both `int main(int argc, char* argv[])' & `int main(int argc, char** argv)' work on most compilers <--- this is because in this special case (parameter list) an array declarator as outermost declarator is treated the same as a pointer
17:38:25 <Madassasin> OK, I see, thanks for clearing the confusion
17:38:31 <Madassasin> now, more stuff to ask :D
17:38:35 <Madassasin> Does anyone know what container should I use (in C++) to group some objects, that allows acces to any of them directly (like arrays( so I can use it's members, and it's size can be modofied at runtime (arrays are a bit complex this way)?
17:38:40 <Yorick> any way to do that using grep, peter1138? (hmm...my messages contain more grep!)
17:39:41 <glx> DaleStan: yes cp grfcodec grfcodec.exe always fails for mingw/msys
17:39:43 <Tron> in NO other case an array is the same as a pointer, but by using a variable of array type in an expression in most cases (!) you implicitely get a pointer to the first element
17:40:41 <glx> DaleStan: but it may be better to check for grfcodec existance before copying
17:41:02 <peter1138> perl -pi -e 's/SndPlayFx(SND_15_BEEP)/SndBeep()/g' *.cpp
17:41:14 <peter1138> probably with some escaping for the braces
17:41:27 <peter1138> whatever you want to call them
17:42:18 <glx> Madassasin: try std::vector
17:43:30 <glx> but that may depend on what you want to do
17:43:36 <Tron> but be careful of the semantics of std::vector
17:44:04 <Tron> e.g. having a pointer or reference to an element in the vector usually is a bad idea
17:48:48 <Roujin> well i'm off for now, let's see if i can pull something up for the transparency window ;)
17:51:05 <Yorick> OMG, notepad++ is actually able to cope with 400+ files opened, 20MB memory usage
17:56:40 <Yorick> just to be doing mass search&destroy...erm...replace actions on that files and saving them all
17:56:54 <Madassasin> Tron: well to be honest, I'm getting my first try at a game, and I'm making a nation simulator
17:57:18 <Madassasin> Tron: and I need a way to group available resources so I can access them easily
17:58:00 <Yorick> I now have 4 patch options at my specific sound enabling/disabling patch
17:58:21 <peter1138> Do it with a grf ;)
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18:01:25 <Ash_> Hi all. I'm in the 0.6.0-beta3 scenario editor, working with a snowy environment, but can't place farms. Is there a trick to this? From Ash_.
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18:04:56 <SmatZ> Ash_: are you trying to build the farm above snow level?
18:06:56 <Ash_> It might be possible I just don't have enough land above snow level. That'd suck.
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18:17:11 <Ash_> Okay, I can't place farms at all.
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18:51:03 <Tefad> HURGUK BLURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGLE
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19:45:37 <Yorick> is NTP even there somewhere?
19:48:49 <Yorick> I can't find it around the patches, or in the language file
19:49:03 <Yorick> I don't mean the algorith itself ^^
19:49:31 <blathijs> Yorick: I think it's called "New pathfinding for trains" or something
19:49:34 <peter1138> So what are you looking for?
19:50:11 <Yorick> I'm looking for a way to do "Pathfinder to use for trains:" instead of "Use YAPF for trains", "Use NPF(overrides NTP)"
19:51:55 <Yorick> I can find a new_pathfinding_all, but I think that's NPF
19:52:28 <Yorick> there is no reference to NTP somewhere at the patches or in the language files(except in the NPF option :-P
19:52:42 <blathijs> Perhaps it's removed somewhere along the way :-)
19:52:59 <SmatZ> yeah, NTP is automatically default when no others are active, maybe that "(overrides NTP)" should be removed from lang file
19:53:31 <Yorick> ah, OPF for trains is removed :O
19:53:34 <blathijs> Ah, OPF is removed :-)
19:54:09 <Yorick> blathijs: its still there for roadvehicles(why?) and ships
19:54:25 <blathijs> Yorick: Hmm, good point
19:54:44 <SmatZ> nobody wrote replacement for it :-P
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19:55:53 <Yorick> isn't yapf the replacement, SmatZ?
19:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause> something eated my keyboard... :(
19:56:17 <SmatZ> Yorick: one could say so...
20:00:17 <Yorick> why does NPF think its better and just take the whole pathfinding on it when enabling?
20:02:50 <SmatZ> because it is coded that way
20:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> if you are going to rewrite these settings, make YAPF recommended for trains and rv, and OPF recommended for ships (with big warning)
20:03:53 <Yorick> I had someone complaining of I could put NPF on instead of YAPF last week :D
20:04:33 <Yorick> lets see, how does the MultiString option work?
20:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> there are plenty of examples ;)
20:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> many difficulty options are like that
20:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> or the town road setting
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20:07:40 <peter1138> it's an implied list of strings
20:07:44 <Yorick> yes, but I don't know from what string they are selected, do I have to define that somewhere, or does the thing autodetect the order?
20:08:11 <peter1138> the first string is the setting's name
20:08:18 <peter1138> then the rest follow in order
20:08:26 <peter1138> also known as a nasty kludge
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20:20:57 <Yorick> I'll have to seperate npf for ships, roadvehicles and trains first...
20:22:09 <SmatZ> I hope at least here will somebody find it useful :-D
20:24:02 <Yorick> hmm...the gui bar has moved to the left, but are there any other differences?
20:24:32 <SmatZ> the snow on rail tiles with foundations :-x
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20:30:25 <blathijs> Yorick: When I coded NPF, it was meant to be a replacement for all pathfinders. It suffered a bit from being to elegant and general to be fast, so that didn't really work out. Nobody ever really bothered with splitting out the options (should be rather a trivial change, I guess)
20:30:45 <Wolf01> I wish it will be possible to keep the terrain under tracks
20:31:27 <Wolf01> instead of force one type
20:48:26 <Yorick> YAPF seems to be largely unimplemented for ships?
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20:49:04 <Yorick> static const Depot* FindClosestShipDepot does not have a check for YAPF
20:49:52 <Yorick> cya tomorrow, maybe, bye
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22:03:45 <Gonozal_VIII> wtf someone's been calling me four times now with some time in between, everytime he let it ring very short so i couldn't pick up, then the fourth time i picked up and all he said was sorry, wrong number
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