IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-01-20
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00:00:20 <Gonozal_VIII> it did, now go sit in a corner and feel ashamed
00:00:29 <Bjarni> nightly builds are still broken on Leopard (intel only)
00:00:55 <Johnmit> after wednesday i can do some proper testing
00:01:02 <Johnmit> as that is when exams finish
00:01:54 <Johnmit> anyway, im going to bed - good night all
00:02:15 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Nonono, it was referring to the fact that you "compile yourself"
00:03:01 <Phoenix_the_II> is anyone willing to look at my savegame why my main line is so much stalling every train on it?
00:04:27 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: damn.... please keep it a secret
00:04:58 <Bjarni> it's supposed to be top secret that I'm a coding bot that can even recode myself
00:05:11 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Yeah, last time I angered software it sent killer robots from the future to kill my mum
00:05:46 <Bjarni> how do you get food now?
00:06:03 <Gonozal_VIII> that's their plan... starve him to death
00:06:16 <Bjarni> you have some crappy software
00:06:39 <Bjarni> I'm even more cruel than that
00:06:50 <Bjarni> I can make bad blocks on your HD
00:07:08 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
00:19:42 <Sogard> I can't believe after playing Open TTD for so long I never knew about the whole, Ctrl + Drag a signal to autosignal an entire line of track.
00:20:15 <dih> i cannot beleive people play for so long and never read the wiki
00:21:20 <Sogard> I've read it plenty, even about signals
00:21:25 <Sogard> But I just never noticed that one I guess.
00:21:34 <Sogard> The wiki taught me pre-signals
00:23:33 <Sogard> The Wiki says nothing about using the ctrl + drag
00:25:08 <Sogard> even under the tutorial section
00:27:28 <Sogard> mabey i can finally contribute something ;v
00:30:21 <dih> there is a page on 'hidden <something>'
00:30:29 <dih> or at least along those lines
00:30:52 <ln-> Bjarni: hmm, how to listen to window resize events in Cocoa?
00:31:41 <ln-> and how to keep the size of a component inside the window equal to that of the window?
00:32:14 <Bjarni> those are good questions
00:32:32 <Bjarni> so good so I think developer.apple.com can tell you
00:33:50 <Gonozal_VIII> i know, it's not html... but did you try with %?^^
00:34:21 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: it's objective C
00:36:14 <Sogard> ohh ok, yeah dih its on the hidden features page
00:36:22 <Sogard> but it seems its only 0.6 so far
00:36:27 <Sogard> not in the latest stable
00:36:55 <Gonozal_VIII> latest stable is like 1000 years old
00:39:24 <Gonozal_VIII> feels like years :P
00:40:27 <dih> are you trying to imply that the devs work too slow for your liking? :-P
00:41:14 <Gonozal_VIII> more like the opposite, so much happened since the last stable that it's kind of stone age tech^^
00:41:33 <ln-> Bjarni: how do i get NSView's parent?
00:44:09 <Bjarni> I'm not a hardcore objC coder :(
00:44:12 <dih> call the grandparents and ask for their kids
00:44:47 <Bjarni> patented the IDEA of replacing part of a video with a still image....
00:45:01 <Bjarni> sounds a bit like the patent on hyperlinks
00:46:41 <dih> windows has a patent on ctrl+z = undo
00:46:55 <dih> sorry - ms has the patent
00:47:16 <dih> windows does not even have fresh air :-P
00:47:58 <Gonozal_VIII> open windows provide fresh air!
00:48:29 <UnderBuilder> I wanna see a city building game based on the [o]ttd interface
00:49:02 <Bjarni> I wanna see users who only states reasonable feature requests
00:49:06 <Gonozal_VIII> didn't you already write that 23424523 times?
00:49:28 <dih> i was waiting for something along those lines to pop up :-P
00:49:33 <UnderBuilder> I wanna see less criticals in the world
00:49:54 <dih> then you need to visit another channel
00:50:11 <UnderBuilder> criticals = people that critize
00:50:31 <Bjarni> I ask for people to be realistic
00:51:04 <dih> UnderBuilder: visit #UnderBuildersWorld
00:51:05 *** Gonozal_VIII was kicked by Bjarni (wrong answer)
00:51:05 *** Gonozal_VIII has joined #openttd
00:51:45 <UnderBuilder> too many people post realistic suggestion
00:51:59 <UnderBuilder> I don't understand what do you mean with realistic
00:52:01 <Bjarni> UnderBuilder: as you can see I have the support of this channel in questioning your urge to request odd stuff
00:52:07 <dih> Bjarni: what do you think of people with power abusing the power they have to make others say what they want to hear?
00:52:47 <Bjarni> they can't make me change my opinion
00:53:07 <Gonozal_VIII> people shouldn't abuse power to make other people say what they want
00:53:24 *** dih was kicked by DorpsGek (I think it's bad to abuse my power :))
00:53:50 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe i thought i would get kicked again now^^
00:53:54 <dih> using a poor bot to do the dirty work is nasty ^^
00:54:16 <glx> well I could have use @op
00:54:41 <glx> but it's easier for me to type !kick and let my script talk to the bot
00:55:10 <dih> i can understand that something in live can make a person feel low enough - which in turn could make them beleive appearing powerful could possibly solve the issue :-D
00:55:12 <Bjarni> dih: now two people claims to have kicked you.... then who should you trust :P
00:55:16 <UnderBuilder> I said that in support of the players playing as cities suggestion
00:55:44 <dih> UnderBuilder - you are offtopic :-P
00:56:19 <dih> Bjarni: i'll just look it up in the logs ^^
00:56:56 <Bjarni> [01:53:24] <-- DorpsGek has kicked dih from #openttd (I think it's bad to abuse my power :)) <-- this is what the log says
00:57:14 <UnderBuilder> instead of having a city simulation proyect inside of ottd, make it a separate game where you play as one of the cities in a ottd's server
00:57:37 <Bjarni> UnderBuilder: join #someonewhocares
00:58:01 <ln-> UnderBuilder: the cities are too small to be interesting to play.
00:58:12 <dih> i thought someone would have at least had the decensy to say @kick publicly
00:58:13 <Gonozal_VIII> wow, i'm op there^^
00:59:02 <Gonozal_VIII> [01:58:51] *** Auto-rejoining #someonewhocares due to kick...
00:59:06 <Bjarni> --- yourself :No such nick/channel
00:59:10 <Gonozal_VIII> that bugger rejoins!
00:59:47 <Bjarni> while maintaining the wiki he gave himself a 5 minute ban to test it
00:59:55 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe, now i banned myself^^
00:59:56 <Bjarni> then it failed to disable
01:00:12 <Bjarni> then he waited to see if it disabled after 5 hours
01:00:32 <DorpsGek> Bjarni: MeusH was last seen in #openttd 22 weeks, 4 days, 15 hours, 54 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <MeusH> hey Wolf01 :)
01:01:29 <Bjarni> looks like he decreased his activity a bit
01:01:51 <dih> i want to be able to do some more work tomorrow :-P
01:01:52 <Bjarni> but to be honest you will stay here
01:02:59 <dih> well - you can tell me tomorrow ^^
01:05:01 <Bjarni> and because of that too
01:05:06 <dih> there - now you have fjb to comfort you :-)
01:05:38 <fjb> Me? Comforting Bjarni? Never! :-)
01:06:24 <UnderBuilder> /mode kick-on-join dih Wow! You lose!
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01:08:09 <Phoenix_the_II> is there any site that explains a few heavy main lines construction examples?
01:10:36 * fjb prefers beautiful main lines.
01:14:35 *** NukeBuster has joined #openttd
01:16:00 <fjb> Ah, the lazy people reminder. :-)
01:17:15 <fjb> Setting a password is always the the first thing I do after joining a network game.
01:18:49 <NukeBuster> I forgot once or twice, now i do not say I do not like to play together. But sometimes people just start deleting all trains... Thats a bit annoying
01:20:19 <NukeBuster> Read this suggestion for the password prompt on the suggestions thread, thought it wouldn't be a very big change :)
01:20:48 <fjb> Yes. People can ask you for the password and you can decide who is allowed to join you.
01:20:48 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
01:22:28 <fjb> I just had to buy the next nonprofid bus.
01:23:34 <Eddi|zuHause> alright, that did not run like i wanted it to...
01:23:42 <fjb> I need a better rating at a town. And there is no room for more wood.
01:24:05 <NukeBuster> Busses are fun, but it takes a long time to get some nice profit...
01:24:08 <glx> fjb: remove trees and replant them
01:24:11 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: What didn't run?
01:24:46 <fjb> glx: Removing trees makes my rating even bader, doesn't it?
01:25:20 <Gonozal_VIII> there's a minimum
01:25:30 <fjb> NukeBuster: I'm using the passenger destinations patch. No passneger transport makes profit without a big network.
01:25:48 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Better reboot then.
01:25:50 <Eddi|zuHause> more specifically, reboot after update
01:25:51 <NukeBuster> The patch from prissi?
01:26:03 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: I wasn't at the minimum rating yet.
01:26:21 <Gonozal_VIII> blow up every tree near the town
01:26:43 <NukeBuster> I really like that in simutrans :) Have played it a short while in open, but support stopped for the patch
01:27:38 <fjb> A bus usually keeps my rating high.
01:28:51 <fjb> People in that town think they don't need a bus. :-(
01:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably a design flaw, local passengers should be much more common than long distance passengers
01:30:28 <fjb> They are much more common.
01:31:49 <fjb> The towns are just not big enough yet.
01:32:39 <fjb> 611 people is still kind of a village.
01:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> right, but you might as well start out in a ~2k town ;)
01:35:42 <Phoenix_the_II> Gah, now I got 4 lines in both directios
01:35:50 <Phoenix_the_II> the trains still prefer to take only 1 line
01:35:59 <fjb> But I need to build a line with a station at that town. :-)
01:36:14 <Phoenix_the_II> and then they get to the station
01:36:23 <Phoenix_the_II> filling that 1 line
01:36:31 <Phoenix_the_II> while the other lines are completely empty
01:36:39 <fjb> Hm, make fewer but longer trains.
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01:37:29 <Phoenix_the_II> they are already 20 to 40 in length :P
01:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Phoenix_the_II: your setup is probably wrong...
01:37:51 <Phoenix_the_II> but im wondering what ._.
01:38:02 <Phoenix_the_II> anyone wanna have a quick look? :o
01:38:21 <Eddi|zuHause> no, we should use our psychic powers to guess your layout
01:39:50 <Gonozal_VIII> fjb, did your english somehow get "bader"?^^
01:40:22 <Phoenix_the_II> look at the power plant in that save
01:40:32 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: My English never was really good.
01:40:37 <Phoenix_the_II> and follow the line closest to the opposite direction lines
01:40:48 <Phoenix_the_II> it's filled with trains, while the other lines are empty
01:42:14 <Eddi|zuHause> can't run the game right now...
01:43:43 <Phoenix_the_II> did i properly setup the lines?
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01:44:21 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't need a gazillion lines there
01:45:05 <Phoenix_the_II> well, i cant even do a stable % at the coal mines :P
01:45:29 <Phoenix_the_II> i want to put more trains on the track to handle the coal better
01:45:40 <Phoenix_the_II> but the traffic just takes 1 line
01:49:00 <Phoenix_the_II> so no suggestions?
01:50:53 <Phoenix_the_II> Gonozal_VIII? :o
01:51:34 <Phoenix_the_II> oh, your fixing something for me? :)
01:52:48 <Gonozal_VIII> some trains are too long
01:52:56 <Phoenix_the_II> these 40 cars ones?
01:53:22 <Phoenix_the_II> only got 20 and 40's :P
01:53:34 <Gonozal_VIII> platforms too short
01:53:52 <Phoenix_the_II> my stations are 21 cell's long
01:53:59 <Phoenix_the_II> 40 car trains only take 20 cell's
01:58:06 <fjb> And you are serializing the trains at the station exit, so you don't win much with the parallel tracks.
01:59:10 <Phoenix_the_II> I'm used to building like this in TTDX :p
01:59:17 <Phoenix_the_II> which was like 6 years ago for me
01:59:30 <fjb> The same happens at the station entries. No two trains can leave or enter a station at the same time.
01:59:47 <Phoenix_the_II> yea, probably presignalling error
02:00:45 <fjb> No, all parallel tracks share one signal block at each end. And there can be only one train in any given signal block.
02:01:22 <Phoenix_the_II> I meant, probably i made an error setting the signal up
02:02:46 <fjb> And I'm counting more than 40 wagon on some trains. They cause truble.
02:03:24 <fjb> The problem are the switches which are connecting the parallel tracks.
02:04:28 <Phoenix_the_II> before the bridges eh
02:04:38 <Phoenix_the_II> yea, that one single block aswell
02:05:35 <fjb> Yes, that serializes your trains because they have to pass that signal block one after the other.
02:05:54 <fjb> And look at train 33. That one is longer than your stations.
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02:06:57 <Phoenix_the_II> doesnt look on here
02:07:03 <Phoenix_the_II> im counting 40 cars on that
02:07:06 <Phoenix_the_II> on a 21 cell station
02:07:41 <Phoenix_the_II> maybe we could start up a internet game...
02:08:03 <Phoenix_the_II> and you show me a layout which doesnt serialize the trains? :)
02:08:15 <fjb> I'm counting 47 wagons and 4 locomotions.
02:09:06 <fjb> opennttdcoop has examples for station entry / exit like you need it.
02:09:26 <fjb> I find just one big line a bit boring.
02:10:32 <Phoenix_the_II> the plan was to extend to coal mines from the east aswell
02:10:40 <Phoenix_the_II> + using the farms at one point
02:10:49 <Phoenix_the_II> to create a darn big station :P
02:11:10 <fjb> But the world still looks a bit boring. Not my kind of game.
02:11:21 <Phoenix_the_II> it's my first game since, 6 years
02:11:28 <Phoenix_the_II> i made a quickie on my own
02:11:56 <fjb> Maybe you should start not that big? Some more smaller lines would cause you less trouble.
02:11:59 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess all those missing grfs don't do the game much good
02:12:12 <Phoenix_the_II> i use openttdcoop's grf pack
02:12:19 <Gonozal_VIII> the trains slow down to 14km/h as soon as they reach the slope
02:12:28 <fjb> Maybe, but the world would stay that fllat even with the grfs.
02:13:03 <Phoenix_the_II> I made that map in 30 minutes :/
02:13:24 <Gonozal_VIII> ah, realistic acceleration is off
02:13:35 <Phoenix_the_II> just figuring out how to make a big line work...
02:13:44 <Phoenix_the_II> realistic accel = better? :o
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02:21:58 <Phoenix_the_II> to be efficient i should just split the lines?
02:22:18 <Phoenix_the_II> meaning only 1 line per 4 station slots?
02:23:45 <Phoenix_the_II> but from what i thought of pre signalling trains could run fine with huge stations/multiple lines
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02:26:34 <Gonozal_VIII> that's pbs not presignals
02:27:00 <Gonozal_VIII> i've split everything now
02:27:02 <Phoenix_the_II> so i should use the path based signled?
02:27:23 <Gonozal_VIII> still slow because loading and unloading takes ages with the too long trains
02:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause> PBS are not implemented
02:30:50 <Gonozal_VIII> i also removed those bridges
02:31:53 <Gonozal_VIII> well... i stopped now, boring game
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02:33:00 <Phoenix_the_II> it was just doing a basic, without terraforming too much, big station with multiple lines
02:33:26 <Gonozal_VIII> withoug terraforming too much?^^
02:33:34 <Gonozal_VIII> did you see that map?^^
02:34:20 <Phoenix_the_II> It just has a high hill
02:34:28 <Phoenix_the_II> and a big city
02:34:48 <Phoenix_the_II> planted a few random towns/mines
02:35:01 <Phoenix_the_II> and randomized the trees
02:35:06 <Phoenix_the_II> and fired up this thing
02:39:00 <fjb> It was terra formed in the scenery editor. :-)
02:46:45 <fjb> Hm, expanding a cheap single track line to a cheap double track line is difficult...
02:48:18 <fjb> The line is in use now and should be usable after the conversion.
02:49:22 <Gonozal_VIII> single track meaning two way?
02:50:20 <Gekz> single track rail lines are Inuit for failfest.
02:50:46 <Gonozal_VIII> build the other line... once it's ready change the signals, yay
02:50:53 <fjb> I'm running the whole game with single rack lines so far. :-)
02:51:23 <fjb> But there are crossings with other lines.
02:51:43 <Gonozal_VIII> crossings are baaaaad
02:52:32 <fjb> A cheap line has to be used by many trains, else it becomes an expensive line.
02:52:56 <Gonozal_VIII> junction for a lot of trains
02:53:09 <fjb> No room for that junction.
02:53:33 <fjb> I have to invent another solution.
02:53:57 <fjb> Nice, but still no room for that.
02:54:13 <Gonozal_VIII> that doesn't take much room...
02:54:17 <fjb> I should split it into junctions.
02:55:46 <fjb> But I need something really small, easy and cheap.
02:55:49 <Gonozal_VIII> trains can even turn around on it :-)
02:57:55 <fjb> I that last one, I have already build it in some other games.
03:11:27 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r11930 /trunk/src/intro_gui.cpp: -Codechange: a bit of code style application
03:25:42 <Phoenix_the_II> i should've build it like this?
03:26:08 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't like that style... but it works
03:26:34 <Phoenix_the_II> looks like a bit of cheat style though
03:27:18 <Phoenix_the_II> Gonozal_VIII, maybe make a internet game, show me a large tracks station?
03:28:02 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think i have the same version
03:28:23 <Phoenix_the_II> i can make the same version
03:28:25 <Phoenix_the_II> which you have?
03:30:32 <Phoenix_the_II> gotta setup the building tools then
03:30:34 <Gonozal_VIII> managed to get that compile stuff working^^
03:30:47 <Phoenix_the_II> lemme build it on nix
03:30:49 <Gonozal_VIII> i think i have beta 2 and 5.3 somewhere
03:30:58 <fjb> We tought Gonozal_VIII how to compile OpenTTD under Windows yesterday. Now he compiles after every commit.
03:31:00 <Phoenix_the_II> neh don't waste your breath :D
03:31:18 <Phoenix_the_II> im used to compiling myself
03:32:25 <Phoenix_the_II> checking out :)
03:33:43 <Phoenix_the_II> cant build on nix for xp
03:34:41 <Phoenix_the_II> configure: error: invalid option --os=WIN32
03:34:41 <Phoenix_the_II> Available options are: --os=[DETECT|UNIX|OSX|FREEBSD|OPENBSD|MORPHOS|BEOS|SUNOS|CYGWIN|MINGW|OS2|WINCE|PSP]
03:35:20 <Phoenix_the_II> i'll install the crap on windows
03:36:00 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have 0.5.3 or 0.6 beta 2?
03:37:33 <Phoenix_the_II> but i want nightly tooo :D
03:37:36 <Gekz> better question is, how the hell did I do it
03:37:44 <glx> Phoenix_the_II: it is MINGW
03:38:43 <ln-> may i propose again an old patch?
03:39:14 <glx> do what you want ln-, I'm going to sleep anyway :)
03:39:31 <Phoenix_the_II> gotta reboot for this SVN client
03:39:56 <Phoenix_the_II> whatever you want :)
03:42:06 <Phoenix_the_II> #openttd phoenix
03:43:26 <Phoenix_the_II> errr the game name is that
03:44:13 <Gonozal_VIII> the game name is "that" ?
03:44:22 <Phoenix_the_II> "#openttd phoenix"
03:45:09 <Phoenix_the_II> it aint on the list
03:45:26 <Phoenix_the_II> 80.100.192.148
03:53:54 <ln-> i have a question about physiology. who wants to answer?
03:54:40 <fjb> Nobody wants to answer, but feel free to ask anyway.
03:56:27 <ln-> ok. so.. as we know, people can easily eat hot food that burns hands. right?
03:56:27 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r11931 /trunk/src/intro_gui.cpp: -Codechange: enumify the widgets numbers. Give breathing room on the case switches too...
03:57:12 <fjb> You burn your mouth it it is that hot...
03:57:40 <fjb> What happened to Belugas?
03:58:58 <ln-> 05:57 < fjb> You burn your mouth it it is that hot... <-- that is definitely not true.
03:59:03 <fjb> ln-: I don't think you can really eat things the are over 50°C hot.
04:00:18 <ln-> i won't say anything about absolute temperatures, but certainly the mouth can tolerate a lot hotter temperatures than e.g. the hand.
04:00:38 <fjb> Maybe 60°C. That depends, but somewhere around there it get too hot.
04:01:14 <fjb> I don't think that is really true.
04:01:17 <Gonozal_VIII> water has a high thermal capacity, there's lots of water in your mouth
04:01:40 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r11932 /trunk/src/intro_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Forgot two occurences of widget enumification
04:01:56 <ln-> try to eat or drink something that his hot, but doesn't burn your mouth. then try to dip your finger to the same substance for 10 seconds.
04:01:58 <fjb> Your spit cools the food down a bit.
04:02:40 *** Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
04:02:55 <fjb> ln-: Measure the real temperature of yout test substance.
04:03:39 <ln-> what does the real temperature matter?
04:04:28 <fjb> Your skin signals "too hot" somewhere not much abouve 50°C.
04:05:19 <Gonozal_VIII> everything above 40 can kill cells
04:05:31 <ln-> fjb: ok, i believe that. then?
04:05:55 <fjb> Some parts of your skin are more protected than other parts, fingerns and soles of your feet have a bit thicker skin, and the skin of your mouth is a bit more protected by your spit.
04:07:15 <fjb> Your fingers are goot to measure the temperature of parts of your computer. If touching the parts hurts that parts get too hot. :-)
04:07:18 <ln-> the 0.5 mm layer of spit is negligible.
04:07:56 <fjb> It really isn't negligible. Have you ever seen a snail go over a razor blade?
04:08:16 <Gonozal_VIII> that's completely unrelated^^
04:08:50 <fjb> Not really, it's skin is also protected by very few fluid.
04:09:33 <fjb> ln-: Dry your mouth and then try to eat something hot. Have fun...
04:10:13 <ln-> fjb: i think you are building a strawman with your argumentation.
04:10:42 <fjb> And don't cheat be moving your test food around in your mouth, keep it in kontact with the same part of the skin of your mouth.
04:11:42 <fjb> ln-: Just try it out. And measure the real temperature of your test food.
04:12:14 <ln-> the real temperature does not matter at all here.
04:12:51 <fjb> What temperature does matter? The temperature that you think that something might have?
04:13:36 <ln-> my claim was -- and is -- that people can easily eat hot food that would burn their hands. the details of whether that is the result of spit is irrelevant. the numerical value of the temperature is irrelevant.
04:14:06 <fjb> You have never burnt your mouth?
04:15:17 <fjb> Make your fingers hot and touch the hot food only for a very short moment. You can really easily do that. You can even touch thinks that way that would definitely burn your mouth.
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04:17:00 <ln-> maybe. does that contradict with my claim?
04:17:49 <fjb> Yes, it does. It shows that you can easily touch things that would burn your mouth.
04:19:44 <ln-> so is my claim "people can easily eat hot food that would burn their hands" true or not in your opinion?
04:20:46 <ln-> so you are saying that people cannot easily eat hot food if it is burning their hands?
04:21:33 <ln-> that's simply not true. try it some time.
04:21:50 <fjb> You can easily eat foot that you can easily hold in your fingers.
04:22:22 <fjb> YOu can eat food with difficulty that you can hold in your fingers with difficulty.
04:23:45 <fjb> Your opinion wins over proven science?
04:24:17 <ln-> you are proving this by stating some absolute temperatures?
04:24:54 <fjb> Yes. The temperature that destroys the cells of you skin.
04:25:41 <fjb> But only for a short time.
04:25:50 <ln-> think about the hot meatball on your dish that you took out from the microwave oven. it will burn your fingers if you touch it, but use the fork and it'll only feel appropriately warm in your mouth.
04:26:34 <fjb> Maybe if you are smoking regularly...
04:27:08 <Diabolic-Angel> I'm just drinking a tee. I can easily drink it, but if I stick my finger into it, it hurts
04:27:19 <ln-> well i've smoked twice, about 5 years ago, and not a full cigarette either time.
04:27:53 <ln-> Diabolic-Angel: my point exactly.
04:29:01 <fjb> That only works if the tea is in your mouth only for a very short time.
04:29:21 <Diabolic-Angel> thought so too, but just tested it
04:30:49 <Diabolic-Angel> Different parts of the skin have a different accuracy when it is to feeling temperature. They are different in feeling at all. Just think about how painfull it were if your ass is as sensible as your fingertips
04:36:02 <ln-> there is of course a temperature above which the food/drink will burn the mouth, too, but that's noticeably higher than the finger-burning temperature.
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08:08:46 <yorick> hylje, Eddi|zuHause? any progress on the new rivers?
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08:39:01 <yorick> hylje, Eddi|zuHause? any progress on the new rivers?
08:59:30 <yorick> use pastie, that can be edited
09:03:03 * peter1138 was writing some stuff for it last night
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09:04:56 <hylje> peter1138: any thoughts left, then?
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09:49:06 <Sacro> Yorick: you should read some shakespear
09:51:08 <Sacro> yes... that is the question
09:51:08 <Wolf01> i always thought that the only speaking skull was Murray
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09:55:32 <wnight> I can't buy more engines, is there a max number of trains? I've got about 10.
09:55:42 <Yorick> wnight: look in patches
09:55:51 <hylje> there is a max, but it isn't usually that low
09:57:33 <peter1138> ran out of money? heh
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09:59:05 <Wolf01> i just noticed that Tyrian source code was donated to a group of developers which have rewrite it in c and made openTyrian :O
09:59:05 <Wolf01> the best arcade game ever
10:01:23 * Sacro hugs Wolf01 for posting that
10:20:00 <wnight> max trains is set to 500... I saw 'never_expire_vehicles' which might explain this... I'm running steam trains far after other types are released.
10:21:33 <wnight> On that subject, when I try to upgrade to newer track I get "can't convert railtype here", even on lone pieces of track. Is there a trick?
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11:02:27 <LittleMikey> So what does that make Australia :P
11:04:06 <lolman> Tasmania's giant comedy hat?
11:10:59 <LittleMikey> Well, clearly not you :P
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11:14:15 <Sacro> bean_xp: nice to see another Hull guy
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12:42:34 <Alberth> should trains loading at a station continue loading when they break down?
12:42:45 <Alberth> I just witnessed this and it looks kind of strange
12:43:04 <reto> Alberth: was it perhaps just arriving or leaving? not yet loading?
12:43:34 <Alberth> nope, it arrived, loaded to 12%, then broke down, the next batch was however still loaded
12:44:09 <reto> well, i've turned off break downs anyway :) can't help
12:44:33 <Alberth> well, in favor off the event, the train didn't move :)
12:48:22 <peter1138> no reason why it can't load while stuck in a station
13:00:02 <Forked> I wonder what I borked with my "fix" of the daylength patch.. I hope I never find out
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13:55:08 <wnight> How do I switch rail types?
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13:55:35 <Chrill> click the rail button and they should simply appear below?
13:55:54 <Chrill> click and keep pressed, wnight
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14:25:29 <Chrill> the site hurt my vision, hylje :P
14:25:42 <hylje> tell that to yorick, he wanted me to use that
14:25:49 <hylje> because it apparently lets me edit the paste
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14:27:41 <Gonozal_VIII> will be fun to watch lots of water sources pouring towards the coast, merging to streams, flooding valleys and so on :-)
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14:30:48 <hylje> i rather have just plaintext
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14:38:39 <Yorick> hmm... wher's the other paste site
14:39:58 <hylje> i used dpaste in the past
14:42:03 <Yorick> that lets you edit things
14:46:00 <Sacro> Yorick: why not put it in the wiki?
14:46:09 <Yorick> [15:30] <hylje> i rather have just plaintext
14:46:23 <Gonozal_VIII> what changed now?
14:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> wiki is not that far from plain text
14:46:34 <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: yes, that's the problem
14:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, you can view changes
14:46:39 <Sacro> wiki would give you revisions
14:46:56 <Yorick> yes, I think it would be a good idea too
14:46:56 <Sacro> ask me nicely and i'll even wikify it nicely
14:48:57 <Yorick> the pastebin allows you to view followups
14:50:07 <Gonozal_VIII> a diff for text^^
14:56:18 <Yorick> call a source a spring :)
14:56:52 <Gonozal_VIII> you know that you can edit it too?^^
14:57:55 <Eddi|zuHause> - If there are less than X/2 flow units of water in a wide river, it shrinks in width, starting from the source lake. <- hm, i think you should view a water level of -4 as "dry", in case you have seasonally varying springs (snow melt etc.), you have an indication how far the river grows in those cases, if you then want to build infrastructure near the river, you can do appropriate counter-measures. e.g.: just build next to the river
14:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (may flood if water level gets above 0), strengthen the riverbank [=build canal] (protect up to water level 4) or raise terrain
15:00:39 <Eddi|zuHause> water level -4 == dry river bed, former river
15:00:42 <Yorick> anyone editing it now?
15:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause> water level -3 == small stream
15:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> water level -2..0 == bigger streams
15:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> water level > 0 == big river, potentially lake
15:02:45 <Eddi|zuHause> water level +4 == overfull lake/blocked river, next "water level +1" will result in raising terrain and water level -3
15:03:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, could remove one or so ;)
15:03:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you should just avoid going from +4 to -4
15:04:39 <Yorick> why the terraforming, wouldn't that that look strange?
15:04:39 <Eddi|zuHause> like, go from +3 to -3 instead, remove level +4 alltogether, and skip level -4
15:04:51 <Yorick> can't we just have higher water
15:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Yorick: much bigger problem
15:05:27 <Gonozal_VIII> and how would that help with the levels?
15:06:12 <Yorick> water level >3 == increase water height
15:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but you need to store that height somewhere
15:07:38 <Yorick> how much bits are free?
15:08:12 <Yorick> btw, what if the lake terraforming reaches max height
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15:08:57 <Gonozal_VIII> can't be blocked up there
15:09:22 <Yorick> hmm... that 's a point
15:09:31 <Yorick> what if someone blocks a spring
15:10:00 <Gonozal_VIII> then it should raise too
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15:10:19 <Yorick> what if the spring is on max height
15:10:30 <Gonozal_VIII> can't be blocked
15:10:36 <Yorick> if its on max-height-1
15:10:51 <Yorick> can't it be blocked with a canal?
15:11:16 <Gonozal_VIII> not to the point where it wants to raise
15:11:50 <Yorick> can it raise if its blocked with a canal?
15:11:59 <Alberth> alternative solution maybe, a maximal level for the spring? (ie its internal forces are finite)
15:12:27 <Yorick> but still, what if the raising is blocked
15:13:36 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm unmovable stuff
15:14:10 <Yorick> a lake has the same problem
15:14:11 <Gonozal_VIII> what happens to that? can you flood away lighthouses and such?
15:14:14 <Eddi|zuHause> canals flood right before the tile would raise
15:14:36 <Yorick> it needs to raise 4 dots to raise a tile
15:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and canals flood right before reaching that level
15:15:33 <Yorick> what happens to the tiles surrounding the river tile if its raised
15:16:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so the order is -4 [dry] .. 0 [stay in river bed, standard float direction] -> 1 [flood open plain] -> 2 [ flood canals] -> 3 [raise tile, flood upwards slopes]
15:17:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Yorick: they will be raised at subsequent flood calculations
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15:18:05 <Yorick> and anything with draining?
15:18:16 <Eddi|zuHause> suppose you have 4 tiles lower than the surrounding, tile 1 gets flooded from 0 to 1, it spreads to a neighbouring tile, resets to level 0, then that neighbouring tile floods up to level 0
15:18:18 <Yorick> each tile will lose X amount of water
15:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if both tiles are full, first tile will flood to 1 again
15:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause> continue with the fourth tile, now all 4 tiles have level 0
15:19:05 <Eddi|zuHause> next water level will put the first tile to 1
15:19:35 <Gonozal_VIII> nothing to flood, noting happens, next tile level 1
15:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but it can't flood anymore, so it passes the next water level to the other tiles, until all have level 1
15:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause> same with level 2 and 3
15:19:46 <Yorick> but if the river makes a lake that is big enough, it can stay there without flooding because of the draining
15:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> now first tile gets to level 4
15:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause> means it is set to level -3
15:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> now all subsequent water levels get passed on to the neighbouring tiles, since they are in main float direction (downwards)
15:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause> they will also reach level 4, and get raised
15:21:27 <Eddi|zuHause> now all tiles are raised to the surrounding plain territory, river searches a new float direction and goes on
15:21:27 <Gonozal_VIII> then up to level 1, there's floodable area again, it floods on
15:22:33 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm random direction then?
15:22:58 <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. direction of first tile to reach level 1
15:23:03 <Yorick> Lakes that become large enough without a way out become sinks for incoming water. <-- that means they have to drain water
15:23:55 <Gonozal_VIII> i think that part should wait until the rest works
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15:24:35 <Yorick> we need a list with ideas sorted by order
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15:27:18 <Yorick> springs need to act like some kind of industry with economy adaptions
15:27:43 <Yorick> in scenario editor, you can set amount of water it generates
15:27:58 <Yorick> ingame, it will change like if it was an industrie
15:28:21 <Gonozal_VIII> you can't really service it..
15:28:30 <Yorick> so changes will be random
15:28:55 <Yorick> as a player, you can install a meter on top of the spring to see how much water it generates =)
15:29:39 <Eddi|zuHause> springs might be locations of interest for tourists
15:29:54 <Yorick> if newindustries grf's are present
15:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (looooooong way down the list of implementations :))
15:30:19 <Yorick> the grf may place industries that only occur near a spring
15:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> only near a river would sound more realistic
15:30:58 <Gonozal_VIII> right, the grf can do that by itself
15:31:21 <Gonozal_VIII> no need to implement anything for that except the tile type
15:31:38 <Yorick> the grf may increase watergeneration-amount if the industrry is serviced well
15:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that is totally useless...
15:32:08 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think springs care about how many tourists are watching them^^
15:32:19 <Yorick> they do care about other things
15:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't create water from nothing
15:32:40 <Yorick> maybe in tropical, you can transport water to the industrie
15:32:55 <Yorick> that pumps it down the spring
15:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i won't discuss this idiocy any further
15:33:29 <Gonozal_VIII> sure... you put water in a train, transport it through the desert to a spring and poor it in all the time^^
15:34:20 <Alberth> make swimming pools for the rich :)
15:34:22 <Vikthor> Only think I can think of would be some bottling industry near spring
15:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway: tropical -> green areas appear near rivers, water supplies are more likely to appear near rivers, you can then transport water from the water supplies to the desert areas
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15:34:45 <Yorick> that would be a goof idea
15:35:00 <Yorick> Alberth: that would decrease water-generation-amount
15:36:36 * Yorick switches back to normal mode
15:36:39 <Vikthor> Yeah, some possibility to dry lakes like Aral sea by using too much water, but that's really too down on priorities list
15:38:34 <Yorick> k, back to the normal idea
15:39:36 <Yorick> anyone has some thoughts about it?
15:40:48 <Gonozal_VIII> so... it floods empty plains at level 1 and canals on level 2... other used land like buildings, rails and so?
15:41:13 <Yorick> but it won't flood plains?
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15:44:27 * Yorick quickly excavates him again
15:44:32 <Yorick> [16:42] * Yorick barries Gonozal_VIII
15:45:03 <Gonozal_VIII> you barried me? :O
15:45:10 <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes, i got barried!
15:47:09 <Alberth> can't you go around industries?
15:47:36 <Gonozal_VIII> it does that if there is room
15:48:04 <Gonozal_VIII> but if not, everything gets flooded
15:48:04 <Alberth> a industry surrounded by water seems like a good candidate for closing to me
15:49:52 <Alberth> so what's the problem exactly, that water expands over the entire map, or that you have to flood something unmovable?
15:50:11 <Yorick> [16:44] * Yorick quickly excavates him again <-- must be digg's him out
15:51:27 <Yorick> river's won't expand over the whole map
15:52:20 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm what happens to bridges with horizontal ramps if the valley they are bridging over gets flooded and raised
15:52:22 <Alberth> ok, so you are thinking about flooding a tile with something on it
15:53:05 <Gonozal_VIII> do they just change to bridges with sloped ramps?
15:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: rather destroyed
15:55:46 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm tunnels... just destroyed when water touches them or does it flow through them?
15:56:15 *** yorP is now known as Yorick[1]
15:56:28 <Alberth> Taking a big leap now: Wouldn't it be better to have a water level on top of the ground, eg as in RCT?
15:57:19 <Gonozal_VIII> no idea how water in rct works
15:57:21 <Yorick[1]> can someone kick the other Yorick, I disconnected
15:57:36 <Gonozal_VIII> kicking doesn't help to speed up the ping timeout
15:58:29 <Gonozal_VIII> except kicking from the server i guess...
15:59:32 <Gonozal_VIII> if your nick is registered you can use regain... /nickserv help regain for details ;-)
15:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: water doesn't go through tunnels currently either...
16:00:05 <Gonozal_VIII> i know, i tested that with deepwater
16:00:29 <Gonozal_VIII> tunnel on level -1 just gets destroyed...
16:00:30 <Alberth> water in rct is a transparent sprite at the water level when waterlevel is above ground level, so you can see the bottom below the water
16:01:15 <Alberth> (and optional non-transparent :) )
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16:02:03 <Gonozal_VIII> deepwater in chrisin causes a lot of problems...
16:02:30 *** Yorick[1] is now known as Yorick
16:06:45 <Gonozal_VIII> i wonder if one could raise the water level pixel by pixel even over multiple height levels through sprite offset...
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16:07:53 <Gonozal_VIII> of course same height on neighbouring tiles^^
16:08:15 <Yorick> hylje still listening?
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16:19:19 <Yorick> now you have to give a link in response!
16:20:52 <Yorick> [15:46] <Sacro> ask me nicely and i'll even wikify it nicely
16:21:14 <Sacro> peter1138: why did i right click and open that ><
16:21:26 <peter1138> because you were hoping it was back?
16:21:29 <Sacro> CX7800 Ink Cartridges <-- ooh nice
16:24:50 <hylje> some things i stumbled upon
16:25:21 <hylje> 1. rivers and lakes are entities. rivers are unlike anything, lakes have some parallels to cities
16:25:59 <hylje> rivers can start and end at lakes and river junctions
16:26:22 <hylje> river tiles know the related river and flow direction
16:27:07 <hylje> lake tiles know the related lake. the lake knows its water level, the incoming water flow and the outgoing water flow (unless it's a sink)
16:27:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean store the river ID like a town ID or something
16:27:51 <hylje> this makes sense because rivers have the same water volume in all points
16:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that should be improvable upon
16:28:38 <hylje> and it should allow rivers to decide to become wider when volume increases, become more narrow when volume decreases
16:29:29 <hylje> a lake grows in size when its water level reaches a certain threshold
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16:35:35 <Yorick> have you seen our "Lively rivers"
16:37:35 <hylje> nothing to be seen yet ;)
16:39:56 <Yorick> The amount of flow may influence ship speed. <--added by me
16:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the amount of flow does not really matter
16:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> flow only indirectly has something to do with speed
16:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> flow = speed*area
16:45:23 <Yorick> there's being talked about "Flow units"
16:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but there is no direct correlation between flow and speed
16:46:34 <Yorick> The amount of flow units may influence ship speed.
16:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> no. you completely missed the point
16:47:39 <Gonozal_VIII> well.. indirectly through a formula with river width and depth... but that goes much too far for now
16:48:26 <Yorick> The flow may influence ship speed.
16:49:24 <hylje> no concept of depth yet, maybe with rivers3
16:49:50 <Gonozal_VIII> oh right... flowing tiles all have the same depth
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16:54:30 <Yorick> tiles with water level 0 are 10 meters deep
16:55:16 <Yorick> 10 meters seems a nice number
16:55:34 <Gonozal_VIII> shouldn't fix it to any real units...
16:55:56 <Yorick> but that would be comparable to 50 meters
16:55:57 <Eddi|zuHause> 10m? that is almost an astronomic number
16:56:04 <peter1138> 10 metres is a very high for a river, heh
16:56:30 <hylje> but lets indeed say something less
16:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> small streams have depth of like 10-50cm
16:56:54 <Eddi|zuHause> bigger rivers can have something around 5m
16:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> if a river reaches 10m, they usually flood all cities around them...
16:58:04 <Eddi|zuHause> canals are just as deep as the biggest ships need them to be
16:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think they are often much deeper than 2m
17:00:24 <hylje> keep in mind the concept of flow units is very arbitrary
17:00:31 <hylje> we dont need to think about measurements
17:01:58 <Yorick> we do need to think about flow influencing speed
17:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that can be decided upon much later
17:03:12 <Gonozal_VIII> backlit keyboard :S
17:03:27 * SpComb has no need for a backlit keyboard, for he has a ThinkLight!
17:04:04 *** Yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
17:04:40 <Gonozal_VIII> the screen is light enough
17:06:55 <SpComb> it's hard to use a keyboard in the dark with just the light of the screen
17:07:00 <Prof_Frink> not if you set it to 35% or so brightness
17:07:03 <SpComb> a thinklight/backlit keyboard is really useful
17:07:04 <Gonozal_VIII> i do that all the tieme
17:07:16 <hylje> you don't/shouldn't look at the keyboard anyway
17:07:31 <Prof_Frink> Of course, if you have a das keyboard it's a moot point
17:08:54 <Gonozal_VIII> gamma 0,75, no other light source in the room except some leds and i can see the keyboard perfectly well
17:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i never use the computer in a dark room
17:14:40 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe you should
17:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> if the screen is light, the background (wall) must be light, too
17:15:46 <Gonozal_VIII> i can't even see where the screen ends and the wall begins
17:15:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it is just not comfortable to watch the screen on a dark background
17:15:52 <SpComb> hylje: unless you need to hit the { key or something
17:16:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i know where the { key is
17:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> {[]} AltGr+{7,8,9,0}
17:17:08 <SpComb> indeed, but it might be a bit difficult to hit that key when typing in a password in the dark on a laptop keyboard that's at a weird angle
17:17:41 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe, you password includes {?
17:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and the really odd keys like ¬⅝¤£ are not on the keyboard anyway
17:18:15 <Prof_Frink> It's s-3 for fsm's sake!
17:18:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it's on AltGr+Shift+3
17:18:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i have and $ keys
17:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> # is next to enter
17:21:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i knew that was coming :p
17:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause> get a real OS ;)
17:21:55 <ln-> actually, altgr+e=€ is the only altgr combination with a letter. (on the normal dos/windows layout anyway, linux has a lot more)
17:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause> µ, @ and € are the ones printed on the keyboard
17:22:40 * SpComb has a umlaut key that doesn't actually work in ubuntu
17:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: you can choose a keyboard layout "with dead keys"
17:23:19 <SpComb> it actually does work, if you press it twice
17:23:29 <SpComb> but ¨<space> gives you "
17:24:24 <ln-> the traditional fin/swe keyboard layout doesn't have any useful characters such as µ°šž.
17:25:00 <Gonozal_VIII> yay, same encoding as i have
17:25:11 <SpComb> typed out on a fin/swe keyboard
17:25:22 <Gonozal_VIII> hylje has same ancoding as me!
17:25:43 <ln-> SpComb: you're using linux, and those characters are not printed on the keyboard, so it doesn't count.
17:25:45 <SpComb> AltGr-m, AltGr-Shift-0, AltGr-s, AltGr-z
17:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> š is AltGr+Shift+ä, s
17:27:40 <LA[lord]> oeh,, how easy üõöäšž@ł€¶ŧ←↓→øþ½^ĸjħŋđðšæž»¢“”nµ<>|éúóáèùòà
17:28:09 <SpComb> ¾¹²³¢ºª±«»°¿Ł¢®Þ¥↑ıŒÞŒÆºŠÐªŁØŁÐª&ŊJĦº÷¬¢‘Ñ’
17:28:33 <ln-> is š or ž part of german alphabet?
17:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't find the dead key version of ~
17:29:07 <LA[lord]> Eddi|zuHause: shift+btn over tab
17:29:14 <SpComb> utf8 is fun, even though it's slightly broken for me
17:29:21 <Gonozal_VIII> german alphabet has 30 letters, a-z, , , and
17:29:35 <SpComb> all the weird chars show up fine in my input row, and show up fine for everyone else, but my own chars in the main text area are broken
17:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> in the traditional german layout, ^, ` and ' [french accents] are dead keys
17:29:41 <ln-> they are basically part of finnish alphabet, but very often not mentioned, and very often not used. (sh used instead)
17:29:57 <LA[lord]> ǔťˇrěďǧȟˇjǩľˇňčžõũãẽ
17:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> LA[lord]: no, that is °
17:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> <LA[lord]> ǔťˇrěďǧȟ <- that better not be a real expression :p
17:31:14 <LA[lord]> that's an Estonian word :P noooot
17:31:41 <SpComb> ä works fine for me, but capital-Ä is broken
17:31:58 <LA[lord]> öäüõÖÄÜÕ these are std letters :P
17:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause> ¯ is AltGr+Shift++
17:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> ~ is AltGr++, but it is not dead
17:32:54 <Gonozal_VIII> what does dead mean?
17:33:03 <LA[lord]> that's a spanish letter
17:33:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Dead Key == key produces no output, but affects result of next key
17:33:34 <Eddi|zuHause> like "+e produces ë
17:34:07 <LA[lord]> altgr+ü -> e produces it
17:35:01 <Gonozal_VIII> you're all offtopic, go kick yourselfes :P
17:37:46 <ln-> last night i was going to ask a question, but got stuck arguing about the validity of the premises...
17:38:14 <ln-> so, let's try again: do we agree that: "people can easily eat hot food that would burn their hands"?
17:38:55 <SpComb> |¯¯¯|.|¯¯¯|.|¯¯¯|.|¯¯¯|.|¯¯¯\
17:39:14 <orudge> ln-: with a knife and fork, or similar, sure?
17:40:19 <LA[lord]> __ __ .___/ \ / \___________ __| _/\ \/\/ / _ \_ __ \/ __ | \ ( <_> ) | \/ /_/ | \__/\ / \____/|__| \____ | \/ \/
17:40:33 <Gonozal_VIII> the spit cools it and if you swallow it fast, there's more liquid in your stomach awaiting it... water has a very high capacity for heat
17:40:54 *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
17:41:10 <ln-> orudge: yeah. i.e. the idea that the mouth tolerates higher temperatures than fingers or hands.
17:41:24 <orudge> I tend to find that is the case
17:41:25 <Gonozal_VIII> make your hands wet and you can touch hot stuff
17:41:27 <orudge> but one can still burn one's mouth fairly easily
17:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> temperature resistance is mainly about blood flow
17:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause> there is much more blood flow in the mouth than in the hands
17:41:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so dangerous temperatures can be balanced out faster
17:41:57 <Gonozal_VIII> that too... another liquid
17:42:01 <ln-> orudge: yes, certainly it is possible to burn one's mouth.
17:42:32 <Yorick> hmm... nice ontopic :)
17:43:15 <ln-> think about e.g. meatballs on your dish that you took out of the microwave oven. they are damn hot to move with fingers, but feel only comfortably warm in the mouth.
17:43:50 <Yorick> 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta3 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory | use English | no off topic YouTube links
17:43:58 <orudge> doesn't say | no food discussion
17:44:02 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: miham * r11933 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
17:44:02 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-01-20 18:42:56
17:44:02 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 2 fixed by fukumori (2)
17:44:02 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: catalan - 6 fixed by arnaullv (6)
17:44:02 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: croatian - 4 changed by blozo (4)
17:44:02 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: czech - 6 fixed by Hadez (6)
17:44:02 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed by habell (2)
17:44:13 * Yorick knows orudge is going to say he's going to get food
17:44:22 <orudge> going to get food, not say that I am
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17:44:27 <orudge> which has now been messed up
17:44:53 <ln-> so, my ACTUAL question: is the heat tolerance of mouth the result of adaptation during one's lifetime, or are also animals capable of eating hot food?
17:45:50 <Gonozal_VIII> it's not about tolerance it's about the fact that the heat gets absorbed by spit and also transported away by the blood :P
17:46:55 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, for any (rather close to human) lifeform, that whole fact about heat resistance is about transporing heat away by blood (or other liquids, but blood is the most acively circulated one, so it fits best)
17:49:16 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: as you wish. but can animals eat hot food?
17:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> but you will probably find sulphur breathing procaryote lifeforms that live in 90°C hot geysirs, or fish that swim in -4°C "hot" water, that is probably not comparable
17:50:08 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess they can but where would they get hot food from?
17:50:13 <Yorick> he's talking about animals
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17:53:08 <Gonozal_VIII> the river implementation doesn't show random slope sprites
17:53:11 <Yorick> Animal: A multicellular organism of the kingdom Animalia, differing from plants in certain typical characteristics such as capacity for locomotion, nonphotosynthetic metabolism, pronounced response to stimuli, restricted growth, and fixed bodily structure.
17:54:13 <Gonozal_VIII> not all animals can move
17:54:55 <Yorick> "certain typical characteristics"
17:54:57 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess the line speed... 120, 160, something like that
17:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> double decker local coaches are typically allowed for 140km/h, 160km/h if they have special brakes and LZB
17:56:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what engine that is
17:56:56 <peter1138> probably an ME 146 ;)
17:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a private rail company, that could mean anything
17:57:52 <Gonozal_VIII> # ME 146-17 (146 517) Langenhagen
17:58:24 <Yorick> he found it a bit earlier :(
17:59:02 <Gonozal_VIII> "eisenbahngesellschaft" in the english wiki
17:59:10 *** Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
17:59:45 <Gonozal_VIII> ME 146-17 "Langenhagen" - Bo'Bo' Bombardier 2005/34042 146.2 5600 kW Eigentum LNVG
18:01:22 <Gonozal_VIII> Hchstgeschwindigkeit 160 km/h :-)
18:09:11 <Wolf01> are rivers supposed to flood?
18:09:33 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
18:09:33 <hylje> flooding is the state of change for rivers and lakes
18:09:45 <Gonozal_VIII> but they're supposed to have random sprites at the slopes
18:09:48 <hylje> it doesn't work exactly as the sea flooding
18:10:54 <Gonozal_VIII> that action 2 (or 3?) in the grf doesn't work... or only gets executed once per map
18:12:40 <Yorick> as of the river-flooding
18:17:09 <Yorick> [19:09] <Wolf01> are rivers supposed to flood? <-- why did you ask this question then?
18:17:28 <Wolf01> but 1 hour ago i didn't know we had rivers, so i assumed that was only a wish feature
18:19:23 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, no, there is just no random data yet
18:20:02 <Yorick> 2398798374928734263491876 isn't that hard <<
18:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138! NewRandomData!
18:20:11 <Prof_Frink> /exec -o cat /dev/urandom
18:21:03 <Yorick> -/notice peter1138 random
18:21:32 <Yorick> we need to install a new random plugin
18:22:12 <Eddi|zuHause> humans aren't capable of sufficient randomness
18:22:29 <Yorick> - /msg peter1138 rcon 923857 "install \"random.dll\""
18:22:57 <Gonozal_VIII> you can always measure very exactly and discard the leading digits...
18:23:08 <hylje> you did't just give out peter1138's rcon pw?
18:23:10 <Wolf01> do you plan to add river creation to the random map creation?
18:23:12 <peter1138> you are cruising for an ignore
18:23:23 <peter1138> Wolf01, come up with an algorithm :D
18:23:43 <peter1138> Wolf01, or if rivers will flow, then it just needs a few starting points...
18:23:44 <Wolf01> just let do it at the AI
18:24:09 <Wolf01> AI is specialised to make rivers... with roads
18:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause> just sprinkle the springs around the map, and let the river search its own path
18:24:23 <Wolf01> and flood the entire map :P
18:24:35 <Yorick> if(within("river", 1)) place
18:24:38 <Wolf01> some lakes would be nice
18:24:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you can limit the output of springs ;)
18:25:04 <hylje> the river AI needs not be anything more than dead simple
18:25:20 <hylje> lakes are created in holes in the landscape the river ends up in
18:25:50 <Wolf01> i think is sufficient to place some starting points for rivers
18:25:57 <Wolf01> and then let them to flow
18:25:59 <Yorick> did you read the new wiki page, peter1138
18:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that is what i said
18:27:09 <Yorick> well peter1138, more pressure to introduce this soon
18:28:07 <Prof_Frink> Yorick: You're Doing It Wrong.
18:28:26 <Prof_Frink> peter1138! NewStuff!
18:28:34 <Yorick> - /msg peter1138 rcon 923857 "unignore \"pressure\""
18:28:54 * Prof_Frink hands Yorick a / /msg
18:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a B'B narrow gauge mallet engine
18:29:08 *** peter1138 has left #openttd
18:29:11 <Gonozal_VIII> small shiny steam train
18:29:12 <Yorick> 9] /msg Unknown command
18:29:40 <Prof_Frink> DCC SEND peter1138 hugs
18:29:55 <Yorick> - /msg Belugas rcon Ilovetrains "code \"new rivers\""
18:30:29 <Gonozal_VIII> yorick, stop bugging the devs or they'll never implement it :P
18:30:52 <Prof_Frink> You have to do it subtly.
18:31:02 <Prof_Frink> Whisper it in their ears while they sleep.
18:31:08 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11934 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: add persistent random data for river and canal tiles.
18:31:28 <Yorick> hmm... at least he works
18:31:44 <Prof_Frink> DCC SEND peter1138 morehugs
18:31:49 <Yorick> lets apply some pressure
18:31:59 <Prof_Frink> Yorick: No, just hugs
18:32:05 <dih> [19:29] <Prof_Frink> DCC SEND peter1138 hugs <--- LOL
18:32:23 <Yorick> - /whisper peter1138 code it please
18:32:36 <dih> what you going on about ladies?
18:32:59 <Gonozal_VIII> flowing and flooding rivers
18:33:02 <Yorick> ladies <-- yes, thanks
18:33:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Yorick is kinda trying to find out peter's highlighting threshold
18:33:55 <Yorick> he's still on #tycoon ;D
18:34:27 <hylje> this is why we cant have nice thing
18:34:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's Yorick's fault, yeah.
18:34:47 <dih> i am working on nice things :-P
18:35:00 <Gonozal_VIII> let's burn yorick
18:35:35 <Prof_Frink> Great Yoricks of fire
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18:35:56 <Yorick> dih: what nice things?
18:36:19 <dih> you'll see at some point :-)
18:36:20 <Gonozal_VIII> yay random sprites now
18:36:23 <Yorick> not enough information
18:38:35 <Digitalfox> What's the command for IRC stats?
18:38:41 <DorpsGek> Yorick: I have 5 registered users with 5 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
18:39:16 * SpComb wonders if he has stats somewhere
18:41:39 * SpComb overtakes Born_Acorn by posting 86 lines of crap
18:42:13 <Prof_Frink> SpComb: Shirley you could just edit the stats
18:42:36 <SpComb> Prof_Frink: I got bored of that a while ago, they get overwritten twice a day
18:42:50 <hylje> i'm the most longed-for user. yay.
18:42:56 <Prof_Frink> SpComb: Edit the logs then
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18:44:07 <Gonozal_VIII> "Bjarni is a very aggressive person"
18:44:29 <Gonozal_VIII> Poor Sacro1, nobody likes him/her. <-- hehehe
18:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> we know that, too :p
18:45:24 <Gonozal_VIII> Bjarni's faithful follower, Eddi|zuHause3
18:46:09 <SpComb> the nicknames are slightly off
18:46:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i referenced to the nick seal :S
18:46:53 <hylje> i think i have a common word associated to my nick
18:47:00 <hylje> theres no way i'm that popular
18:49:58 <Prof_Frink> hylje: You're not popular, it's everyone swearing at you.
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21:16:06 <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe nice fix that forked did there with the daylength patch^^
21:16:35 <Gonozal_VIII> changed assertion x >= 0 && x <= 65535 to x >= 0 && x <= 965535
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21:18:38 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, sounds a bit like disabling desyncs...
21:19:11 <Forked> like I said.. I don't know any C++ (or any other language for that matter) ..
21:19:24 <Forked> I probably broke something else :)
21:19:45 <Forked> but! Map sucessfully saved to nice.sav
21:21:05 <Rubidium> the map will be b0rked when you load it though (and it'll desync whenever someone joins)
21:24:49 <Forked> loaded (on dedicated server) and connected with client.. looks fine
21:25:06 <peter1138> why not just compile without asserts... same result
21:26:52 <Rubidium> then you haven't reached the limit yet
21:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess i am glad that i use a no-save version of the daylength patch
21:28:20 <Gonozal_VIII> no save version?
21:28:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but what exactly is that value that overflows?
21:33:12 <Forked> whatever x is.. (making dinner, hardly here) .. I have no clue what asserts are.. so I was hoping I could for the most part leave them alone.
21:33:31 <Forked> I did figure it was the worst way possible to "fix" it though.. I'll cry when this game crashes
21:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Forked: asserts do nothing, they are used by programmers to tell "when this value is out of this range, something undefined may happen"
21:35:08 <Gonozal_VIII> it saves the value as 16 bit thingy, so there will be problems if it's bigger than 2^16-1
21:50:40 <blathijs> Forked: Eddi|zuHause: Actually, assert(foo) basically means "Check if foo is true, and exit with an error otherwise"
21:51:01 <Gonozal_VIII> i think eddi knows what assert does^^
21:51:35 <blathijs> Yeah, I was amending his explaination a bit
21:51:41 <blathijs> but, I should really be sleeping
21:51:54 <Gonozal_VIII> early evening...
21:53:49 <Gonozal_VIII> "Finally got a backtrace out of it - the crash seems to occur while saving _date_desc."
21:54:53 <Rubidium> so it's definitely going to cause desyncs, which then are seemingly unreproduceable
21:57:41 <DorpsGek> dih: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 52 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Bjarni> dih: you did it
22:02:36 * Rubidium wonders how long it's going to take before people know the cause of Forked's assertion
22:03:02 <Gonozal_VIII> since it's been there for weeks i guess long
22:04:19 <Gonozal_VIII> dih isn't here pikita, never was and never will be
22:05:37 <peter1138> Rubidium, and that the proper fix is pretty simple, assuming the value of x is right...?
22:06:02 <Rubidium> peter1138: the fix is dead-simple, at least for me ;)
22:06:47 <Gonozal_VIII> trunkify it and then fix it :D
22:07:09 <Rubidium> in that case I'd end up fixing every patch, which I do not intend to do
22:08:01 <Gonozal_VIII> daylength is important :-)
22:08:23 <Rubidium> getting a new stable is *much* more important IMO
22:09:01 <Gonozal_VIII> makes sense i guess
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22:10:52 <peter1138> 192 FastEthernet interfaces
22:10:52 <peter1138> 8 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces
22:11:06 <peter1138> hmm, i need more :D
22:11:38 <Gonozal_VIII> no idea what that means^^
22:12:51 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm 300 lines diff
22:13:27 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't look too much... i don't know shit about c++ bit i'll look at it :-)
22:16:09 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: just means that the biggest switch/router that he can find does not have enough ports to satisfy his (company's?) needs
22:17:21 <Gonozal_VIII> just connect multiple of them?
22:18:34 <peter1138> actually that particular one has 32 ports in use, heh
22:20:14 <dih> this flipping kid highlighted me on every channel he could find me
22:20:49 <Gonozal_VIII> something about your servers i guess?
22:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: connecting routers is not as easy as you might think... suppose you have 192 computers on one, and 192 computers on the other, each connected with 100MBit, then suppose each of these wants to communicate to a computer at the other switch, you need a 19.2 GBit connection between the switches
22:22:00 <Gonozal_VIII> of course you have to connect them in a way that the ones from the first router don't have to communicate a lot with the ones on the other :-)
22:23:42 <peter1138> <peter1138> 8 Gigabit Ethernet interfaces
22:29:41 <Gonozal_VIII> at least not since you joined
22:30:36 <Gonozal_VIII> that tortoise thingy download takes ages...
22:32:14 <fjb> Once 3-4 kb/s was high speed...
22:32:40 <Gonozal_VIII> downloading since 20 minutes and still 30 more to go..
22:33:04 <Forked> I wish I had time so I could learn to code
22:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> after the first few, i rarely build single track lines
22:33:39 <Rubidium> well... you have time, otherwise you wouldn't have stumbled on that issue you tried to fix
22:33:40 <fjb> You only learn to code by dong it.
22:34:36 <Forked> still need time to do it though
22:34:37 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Single track lines were good enough with few trains. But now I got a few more trains. And double track lines are more expensive.
22:35:15 <fjb> And it is fun to build a simple network first and then upgrading it as nedded.
22:35:17 <Gonozal_VIII> single track is almost never enough
22:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> single track can't be efficiently handled by the limited signalling
22:36:43 <fjb> A single track is good enough for only few trains.
22:37:00 <Gonozal_VIII> i sometimes start my games with single track and some sidings for the trains to pass by each other... and i add more of them and make them longer until they are connected and it's a double track :-)
22:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> as soon as 4 trains use a single track line, it will block
22:38:22 <Eddi|zuHause> 2 trains on the siding, and 2 approaching from each direction
22:38:32 <fjb> That depends on the number of points where the line has a second track, like at stations with two platforms.
22:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it is independent from the number, because if they can meet at the same siding, they will do that
22:39:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and the presignalling system doesn't work bi-directional
22:39:27 <Gonozal_VIII> it slows down everything but it doesn't lock
22:40:10 <fjb> Yapf is really stupid sometimes, but it handles a single track with stations with more than platforn inbetween very well.
22:40:18 <Gonozal_VIII> it would if it would only recoginze reachable exits... but then lots of people would complain that their priority lines and things like that don't work anymore
22:41:33 <fjb> I fear thatmany people will not use the new PBS because that is not bug compatible to the old signalling system.
22:42:16 <Gonozal_VIII> imho it doesn't have to be compatible, either use the old or the new
22:42:57 <Noldo> bug compatible is very nice consept :)
22:43:20 <fjb> But many people will complain that they can not abuse the old bugs.
22:43:56 <Gonozal_VIII> they can... but then only that without the new signals
22:44:07 <Noldo> I've been trying to figure out what kind of construct could replace the current priority construct in the new pbs system
22:44:47 <Gonozal_VIII> priority with pbs is kind of difficult i guess
22:45:21 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe declare some trains as express and they reserve a longer path?
22:45:22 <fjb> It could be build into PBS. Faster trains get a higher priority.
22:45:37 <Noldo> it's not about the speed
22:45:54 <Noldo> the mainline must flow nicely
22:47:12 <Gonozal_VIII> place those on the mainline^^
22:48:11 <Gonozal_VIII> it could work with something like that...
22:48:29 <Noldo> what would that mean codewise?
22:48:34 <Gonozal_VIII> when a train reaches that type of signal, it reserves a path through the next switch
22:49:16 <fjb> I thought about programmable signs instead of programmable way points or signals. They could be implemented for road vehicles and trains.
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23:07:17 <Bjarni> wrong people talk to me
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23:09:16 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: you freak
23:09:45 <Gonozal_VIII> you were gone for so many hours and now i missed your join :-(
23:10:04 <Gonozal_VIII> dih was always screwed up
23:11:48 <Gonozal_VIII> why are you all so cruel to him?
23:11:54 <dih> why is Bjarni so resentful...?
23:12:31 <Gonozal_VIII> 01:05:27 -!- Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46c3a.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
23:12:47 <dih> _that_ does not mean anything
23:14:18 <Gonozal_VIII> soooo where have you been?
23:15:01 <Bjarni> trying to have a private life
23:15:18 <Bjarni> where users will not bug me all the time
23:17:51 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... kde 4 seems faster than kde 3.5
23:18:48 <Gonozal_VIII> can i load kde on windows instead of explorer?^^
23:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause> kde 4 was always advertised to have (or get) a windows port
23:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not investigated upon that any further
23:19:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but there is definitely a "kde on windows" community
23:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the panel (task bar) configuration is ... lacking ...
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23:27:17 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: official benchmarks claims kde 4 to be noteworthy faster than 3.5
23:27:33 <Bjarni> I forgot how much though
23:27:38 <Gonozal_VIII> there is a windows installer...
23:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, my inofficial benchmarks support that claim ;)
23:28:08 <Bjarni> it's like it didn't really matter to me since I don't use any of them
23:28:42 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: windows installer?
23:28:59 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: are you drunk?
23:29:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like kde 3.5 was awfully slow, but if you are acustomed to the speed, the difference is notable
23:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like if you bought a new computer, and everything is suddenly fast ;)
23:33:34 <Bjarni> ohh... news can be interesting at times. One guy was out sailing in a boat when it sank and he called his dad telling that he had problems. His dad made the military send out a helicopter to find him (standard procedure). The helicopter found him holding tight to a pole in the water just a few meters from land
23:33:50 <Bjarni> he didn't notice that he was so close to land due to darkness o_O
23:35:00 <pv2b> what else are they going to do with those helicopters?
23:35:24 <Bjarni> because in such a situation you need somebody with helicopters within reach and that's ready to take off quickly
23:35:44 <Bjarni> the military are the only ones who can solve this task
23:35:53 <Gonozal_VIII> well.. we have lots of helicopters here
23:36:02 <Gonozal_VIII> for transports and rescue
23:36:29 <Bjarni> except we gave the task to the military
23:36:47 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess our military just sucks too much for that^^
23:37:25 <Chrill> Military and suck? Take a look at Sweden
23:37:49 <Bjarni> there has been talk about using actual ambulance helicopters but nothing happened so far
23:38:15 <Bjarni> what's wrong with Sweden?
23:38:29 <Bjarni> apart from being Swedish, that is :P
23:38:29 <Chrill> there is no military here?
23:38:45 <Chrill> I mean, we haven't been in a war for over 200 years
23:39:01 <Chrill> We'd be easily invaded by any country
23:39:10 <Bjarni> then how could be buy a submarine from you guys?
23:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> what's wrong with Sweden? <- i would never have expected that sentence from you...
23:39:31 <Chrill> cus we cant afford to actually have them here :P
23:39:42 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: it was partly a rhetorical question ;)
23:39:44 <Chrill> Our military consists of selling planes and boats, and a few tanks, really
23:40:09 <pv2b> Chrill: not selling planes very well
23:40:09 <Chrill> I mean, BIG news when a Swedish troop in Afghanistan got into a fight
23:40:23 <Chrill> but it was sooo big still
23:40:33 <Bjarni> we lost 7 men or something like that
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23:40:44 <Gonozal_VIII> stupid disconnecting...
23:40:53 <pv2b> to be fair, sweden is one of the few countries in the world with our own aircraft design
23:40:59 <Bjarni> maybe 5... I can't remember
23:41:09 <Chrill> Aye that is true, pv2b
23:41:22 <Chrill> ..do we use Viggen nowadays..? xD
23:41:23 <Bjarni> two of them were killed by British rockets though
23:41:33 <pv2b> Chrill: i think there may be a few, probably mostly for training :-)
23:41:44 <Chrill> which one is the main use tho? Gripen?
23:42:09 <Bjarni> and the soldiers were so happy when it turned out that it was friendly fire... They really feared that Taliban had got their hands on heavy rockets like that
23:42:09 <Chrill> anyway, VIQ pv2b. Moderaterna or Sossarna? :P
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23:42:54 <ln-> Bjarni: the swedish army is some sort of a joke.
23:43:20 <pv2b> Chrill: nope, last viggen was decommissioned in mid-2007
23:43:24 <Chrill> We've got.. Basshunter
23:43:51 <Bjarni> am I supposed to know all of that?
23:44:00 <Chrill> Well, you should know Hives
23:44:09 <Chrill> and as a Dane, you should know the others
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23:44:54 <Gonozal_VIII> that other guy is downloading again...
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23:45:08 <pv2b> Chrill: we also have piratpartiet.
23:46:03 <Bjarni> I remember when some Swede named Kent or something showed up and made a concert... we didn't know who it was and it was damn loud to be near it... We couldn't talk normally indoor :(
23:46:20 <Bjarni> piratpartiet is world famous
23:46:44 <Bjarni> I'm not sure how they would rule the country as I only heard what they are NOT going to do
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23:47:28 <Chrill> Bjarni, all they would do is to get rid of the feckin cameras in public spaces and let people live their own lives
23:47:52 <Chrill> Probably way more right-wing than left
23:47:54 <Bjarni> they are not going to get my vote
23:48:02 <pv2b> Chrill: how do you figure?
23:48:23 <ln-> why can't i find any stereotypical swedish army photos with google images?
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23:48:39 <Chrill> pv2b, an assumption I've made xD
23:48:41 <Bjarni> because there aren't any army in Sweden?
23:48:43 <Gonozal_VIII> wtf according to wiki it's really what it sounds like
23:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> french military victories?
23:49:16 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: what sounds like what?
23:49:23 <Chrill> pv2b, they themself claim not to have a position on the scale
23:49:38 <Chrill> I saw Rickard Falkvinge @ Plattan some weeks ago :O
23:49:43 <pv2b> Chrill: left/right distinctions are irrelevant when it comes to the pp -- copyright reform, personal freedoms and human rights don't really fit.
23:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, they are the political wing of the pirate bay, what do you expect ;)
23:50:52 <Gonozal_VIII> i accidently pulled a cable out of my router...
23:50:54 <pv2b> Bjarni: anyway, i think we have plenty of politicians with good or bad ideas about how to run the day-to-day issues. there's not really any difference between (s) and (m) other then rhetoric really
23:51:03 <ln-> did you know swedish soldiers can have long hair and use hair nets instead of getting a hair cut?
23:51:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: for like the 5th time this evening? :p
23:51:31 * Chrill slaps Swedish Military
23:51:51 <pv2b> eh, what's wrong with using hair nets for long hair if you want to?
23:51:56 <pv2b> sounds like common sense to me
23:52:06 <Chrill> Military in Sweden should be abolished
23:52:17 <Chrill> I mean, put that money in like.. I dunno, taking care of older peeps and that jazz
23:52:23 <Gonozal_VIII> why would anybody want long hair?
23:52:33 <Gonozal_VIII> that's a lot of work...
23:52:35 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: because it makes them more attractive to the opposite sex?
23:52:47 <ln-> pv2b: because you are not supposed to have long hair in the army.
23:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> pv2b: you mean men? ;)
23:53:05 <pv2b> Eddi|zuHause: no, women.
23:53:07 <ln-> unless the goal is to kill the enemy with laugh.
23:53:27 <pv2b> i don't really have a preference one way or the other,but some do.
23:53:31 <Bjarni> <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: because it makes them more attractive to the opposite sex? <-- and then why have it in the army when there is a lack of "the opposite sex"?
23:53:47 <pv2b> Bjarni: because you're not in active combat all the time?
23:53:57 <Chrill> You're never in active combat, not in Sweden >_>
23:54:04 <pv2b> Bjarni: and growing hair takes a long time, and a hair net solves the same problems?
23:54:05 <Bjarni> Swedish soldiers are slackers then
23:54:15 <ln-> pv2b: if people area allowed to have long hair if they want to, then why not allow them to wear the kind of clothes they want to...
23:54:31 <pv2b> ln-: growing new clothes doesn't take years
23:55:29 <Gonozal_VIII> never tried growing new clothes, but there are a lot of nudists that run around without their clothes regrowing for years, so i guess it takes a long time
23:56:01 <ln-> pv2b: there is nothing bad about being without long hair for a while.
23:56:03 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: for all you know they shave everywhere every day
23:56:23 <pv2b> ln-: so, what's wrong with long hair if you can manage it?
23:56:40 <Chrill> This turned into quite the debate
23:56:43 <Bjarni> you have to spend time and resources managing it
23:57:15 <pv2b> Bjarni: the same is true of many body parts.
23:57:38 <pv2b> that's not an argument -- in that case why do soldiers shave?
23:57:49 <ln-> pv2b: long doesn't dry in 2 minutes.
23:58:03 <pv2b> ln-: well, that's *their* problem.
23:58:18 <Bjarni> what if they are attacking Alaska?
23:58:37 <ln-> soldiers shave because a soldier isn't supposed to have a beard.
23:58:46 <pv2b> ln-: "isn't supposed to".
23:59:07 <pv2b> ln-: a soldier is supposed to kick ass in defense of his country
23:59:20 <pv2b> hair is irrelevant to that unless it interferes with that
23:59:22 <Bjarni> soldiers are supposed to be identical grunts
continue to next day ⏵
