IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-12-10
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00:00:11 <Smoovious> it varies a lot... I have a flatbed
00:00:25 <Smoovious> last load was drilling pipe
00:00:50 <Smoovious> ahh... constant load shifting
00:01:17 <Smoovious> too bad you can't strap em in and put a tarp over em
00:01:24 <fjb> Bjarni: The pathfinder doesn't check if it chooses a platform with an exit in the desired direction?
00:02:12 <Bjarni> it doesn't look forward in the orders to figure out how to go to the next station
00:02:15 <Gonozal_VIII> you have to use waypoints for that
00:02:56 <fjb> Then I have to use distributed waypoints...
00:03:16 <Bjarni> <Smoovious> ahh... constant load shifting <-- actually this doesn't matter. If it should matter then comfort is long gone
00:03:42 <Bjarni> ohh we have seasonal stuff too
00:03:44 <Gonozal_VIII> multi track waypoints would be nice... and diagonal ones... i have lots of diagonal rail
00:03:50 <Bjarni> aka the passengers Christmas trees
00:04:10 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> multi track waypoints would be nice... and diagonal ones... i have lots of diagonal rail <-- planned feature
00:04:23 <Bjarni> it has been planned for more than 2 years now
00:04:30 <Smoovious> well, load-shifting is a big danger in flat-bedding... we're usually top-heavy
00:05:16 <fjb> I have no room to add the nedded waypoints... :-(
00:05:27 <Bjarni> passenger cars has to be strong enough for situations where all the passengers do something silly like all move to the same side
00:05:31 <Gonozal_VIII> i mean, i can just use a station with non stop order for normal waypointing... but not diagonal
00:06:19 <Smoovious> well, they're strong enough... but as the weight moves aroundd, the trailer handles differently... and you gotta be ready for it
00:06:41 <Gonozal_VIII> it's a train... it has rails
00:06:52 <Bjarni> here is the solution: use the railroad: they should stay on the track
00:07:11 <Bjarni> if not then you are screwed whatever you do
00:07:47 <Smoovious> um, yeah... they kinda frown on tractor trailers around here, driving on the rails... gets them all uppity...
00:08:36 <Bjarni> Smoovious: you know you emit more than your share of CO2
00:09:45 <Smoovious> yeah, I know... the newer trucks are built to the more recent emissions standards... but they don't give the new trucks to the new employees
00:09:58 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, better breath less to make up for that
00:10:27 <Bjarni> you should use railroads more
00:10:42 <Gonozal_VIII> everybody should use railroads more
00:10:47 <Smoovious> find it hheartbreaking every time I see an abandoned section of rail
00:11:04 <Smoovious> there are countries that are worse on emissions than we are tho
00:11:16 * Bjarni imagines what would happen if there was a ban on moving stuff more than 100 miles on trucks if there is a railroad that can be used instead
00:11:18 <Gonozal_VIII> traffic increases everywhere... except on rails, they close them down..
00:11:37 <Bjarni> we increase traffic on the rails
00:12:41 <Smoovious> hell, past several years, Coal stopped being the #1 cargo on the rails here... Intermodal is in the #1 spot now... imagine of all of that container traffic was on the highways instead
00:13:20 <Gonozal_VIII> they only renew mainlines for faster passenger service between big cities...
00:14:08 <Smoovious> personally, I think our passenger rail should be built back up again significantlly... trying to fly is a big joke... and forget about making a connecting flight unless you got a few hours in between landing and taking off
00:14:10 <Bjarni> we have a steel mill here and the production was loaded on a train once a day. It was the only train in the country scheduled to always have more than one locomotive and then the new manager on the railroad decided to go for passenger traffic only
00:14:55 <Bjarni> as a result all the steel are now on ships... but people really feared for lorries because there was no way the roads could handle that
00:15:15 <Bjarni> not to mention what would happen to accidents with so heavy vehicles on the roads
00:15:36 <Smoovious> well, actually... empty trucks are more dangerous
00:15:52 <Smoovious> less traction, and the brakes are much easier to lock up and jackkniife
00:15:57 <Bjarni> last week an empty truck tipped over due to the wind
00:16:06 <Smoovious> and in the snow and rain, you want to be almost up to gross
00:16:31 <Bjarni> well the point was that when they hit something it the added weight would matter
00:16:55 <Bjarni> this is about the time of impact not the time before the impact trying to avoid it
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00:17:44 <Bjarni> steel is kind of heavy... the ships are filled like 10% of the cargo hold's size and then they got full cargo weight
00:18:10 <Smoovious> well, by then it is too late anyways... we focus on what leads to it, since that's where we still have some ability to control it
00:19:00 <Smoovious> yeah, I took a single flat piece of steel that weighed about 45,000 pounds... pushed me up to around 73,000 pounds gross
00:19:06 <Smoovious> max without a permit is 80,000
00:19:15 <Bjarni> even with 3 locomotives
00:20:00 <Bjarni> as you can see they make steel bars, not plates
00:20:12 <Smoovious> the load was only 2" tall, and was about 2/3 thhe length of t he trailer
00:21:09 <Smoovious> yeah... the plate I was taking, was going to a machining place, who would cut out the parts it was making from t he plate
00:21:32 <Bjarni> this is clearly a job for a railroad
00:21:33 <Smoovious> we take bars too... I-beams... steel rails and wheels, and wheelsets...
00:21:54 <Bjarni> I mean if it's a workshop needing plates of that size on a regular basis
00:22:26 <Smoovious> the shop has no nearby rail access tho...
00:23:15 <Smoovious> I think they used to, until the mainline was abandoned
00:23:47 <Bjarni> they gave up on the Donner Pass as well
00:23:57 <Bjarni> but I think that was due to massive snowfall
00:24:10 <Smoovious> there is still rail through Donner... quite busy too
00:24:14 <Bjarni> they use a tunnel a bit more to the south today
00:24:31 <Smoovious> yeah, the heavier trains go to the tunnel
00:24:48 <Bjarni> I think all of them use the tunnel today
00:24:52 <Smoovious> but the intermodal trains run through the pass quite a bit
00:25:18 <Bjarni> I have seen pictures of the Donner Pass where the trains wouldn't be able to pass anymore
00:25:26 <Smoovious> I've driven through the pass 3 times now... saw a lot of medium length trains, with 2 locos on each end, running through... all intermodal
00:25:27 <Bjarni> the snow conquered the area again
00:25:45 <Smoovious> that isn't permanent tho...
00:25:57 <Bjarni> like it did to the Donner Party 150 years ago
00:26:01 <Smoovious> they just gotta get the snow machines out and cleear it
00:26:16 <Bjarni> yeah... but they decided to use the tunnel
00:26:23 <Smoovious> the Donner Party didn't have the resources
00:26:42 <Bjarni> or a clue to where they were supposed to go
00:26:48 <Bjarni> didn't know the area well enough
00:26:50 <Smoovious> kinda hard to compare a wagon train with rail
00:31:01 <Smoovious> ahh... ok... didn't know about the track#1 location... the one I was thinking of was probably the track#2 location... running back and forth across I-80
00:31:21 <Bjarni> track#1 was the original one
00:31:28 <Bjarni> the hardest one to make
00:32:10 <Smoovious> the tunnel entrances look wierd... the normal curved top to them, with notches cut through to accomodate the double-stacked intermodal cars
00:32:25 <Smoovious> yeah... and too steep a grade too
00:37:14 * fjb hates lost trains. They never go to the empty platform, blocking every platform exit instead. :-(
00:37:33 <Bjarni> that depends on your layout
00:37:47 <Bjarni> with the right layout they wouldn't be lost in the first place
00:37:57 <Gonozal_VIII> i never have lost trains
00:38:50 <fjb> I had to do some work on the layout, trying to create waypoints with stations. The trains got lost while I was working.
00:38:51 <Bjarni> Just imagined what Smoovious must look like
00:39:11 <Bjarni> fat, smelly and a beard all the way to the belly button
00:39:42 <Bjarni> and I'm right unless proven wrong :P
00:40:11 <Gonozal_VIII> always a porn magazine on the steering wheel while driving...
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00:44:18 <Bjarni> he only need a bit longer beard
00:44:22 <Gonozal_VIII> then where else do you keep your porn? pin it to the windshield?^^
00:44:24 <Smoovious> my beard is never more than a couple inches long... enough to keep my face warm in the winter... and I get a shower at least 4 times a week...
00:44:30 <Smoovious> can't always park at a truck stop
00:44:40 <Smoovious> I got long hair past my waist
00:45:42 <Smoovious> dunno where you guys get your images of truckers
00:45:55 <Smoovious> only been a trucker for 3 months
00:46:10 <Bjarni> Overtake? : "Some drivers just won't pass us, they are too scared"
00:46:45 <Smoovious> most truckers I met have short hair, and clean shaven... maybe the dry-box drivers are all overweight, but the flat-bedders aren't
00:47:11 <Gonozal_VIII> i hate it when truckers overtake each other on a 2 lane highway...
00:47:20 <Bjarni> why are dry box drivers more fat than flat bed drivers?
00:47:36 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
00:47:40 <Smoovious> because all they have to do is park the trailer, drop the trailer, hook up to it
00:47:46 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: we banned it here at certain locations (mainly high traffic areas)
00:48:12 <Bjarni> Smoovious: all you mean they don't have to get up while you have to work on your load too?
00:48:16 <Smoovious> they don't have to wrestlte with 80# tarps, 90# chains and binders, set their boards, secure their loads with winches, etc
00:48:26 <Smoovious> flatbed is physically demanding work
00:49:43 <Smoovious> if ya don't like getting dirty, or physical work, don't do flatbed
00:49:43 <Bjarni> I saw a police tape on TV. They watched a wide load flatbed truck start and watched them for a while and said "I think they can do well on their own... they look like they can handle it"... a few sec later the load hits a tree or something and shifts
00:49:52 <Bjarni> the police decided to stay with them XD
00:50:10 <Smoovious> yeah... that's one of the dangers...
00:50:26 <Smoovious> usually caused by laziness of the driver...
00:51:07 <Bjarni> <Smoovious> if ya don't like getting dirty, or physical work, don't do flatbed <-- you say that to me who lubes locomotives from below even if there aren't a pit below them.... I get my share of being dirty and hard to access stuff
00:51:34 <Smoovious> Bjarni... yeah, but I know you don't do trucks too :)
00:51:43 <Bjarni> and then I.. well... didn't think highly of the guy complaining that the pit was too small
00:51:54 <Sacro> does that make it go into tunnels better?
00:52:11 <Bjarni> Sacro: well.... I imagine you see it as a long and hard thing
00:52:11 <Smoovious> most truck drivers running dry box, would just wait for a service vehicle to come out and do it for them... hell, most of em don't even carry a spare tire anymore
00:52:27 <Bjarni> I'm actually talking about bearings
00:52:36 <Bjarni> wheels, traction engines and such
00:53:31 <Bjarni> btw if you puncture how do you replace the tire
00:53:41 <Smoovious> I gotta climb under the trailer, regardless of the weather, and re-adjust the brakes on the trailer daily... sometimes twice a day, if I'm going to be going through steep grades... when thhe lot is slushy, it is no fun, but rather do that than end up with no brakes when I need em most
00:53:49 <Bjarni> I mean it's not like a normal car where you can just add a small jack and lift it by hand
00:55:25 <Smoovious> gotta use a larger jack on one of the lift points... air-powered... hook it up to the air lilne on the tractor's frame
00:55:47 <Smoovious> usually wait for a service vehicle to come out tho... the wheels are quite heavy
00:57:02 <Smoovious> but if only one of the tires on a dual goes out, you can still drive to the nearest truck stop/tire shop
00:58:02 <Smoovious> some trucks are switching to the single extra-wide tires tho... might save some weight, but if one goes out, no redundancy... personally, I'd rather have the redundancy
00:59:03 <Gonozal_VIII> does it even matter if one of the wheels doesn't work?
01:00:32 <Gonozal_VIII> i saw a 10km long rubber trail on the road here, i guess some truck had a blocked brake on one wheel or something, didn't stop him
01:00:37 <Smoovious> you end up having too much weight on the remaining wheels in that spot... making it more likely to blow out... so ya wanna switch out the bad one asafp... especially if you're running heavy
01:00:59 <Smoovious> uh huh... and that was a stupid thing to dod
01:04:13 <Bjarni> well... sometimes people do stupid stuff
01:04:56 <Sionide> "there are no stupid questions, just stupid people"
01:05:12 <Bjarni> I know of an incident where one brake jammed and kept on braking on a train. Since it was a long train the driver didn't notice so the brake became rather hot
01:05:22 <Bjarni> and started making sparks (like you see on movies)
01:05:26 <Bjarni> and started like 8 fires
01:05:35 <Bjarni> before the train was stopped
01:06:18 <Gonozal_VIII> fires? trees next to the rail?
01:06:19 <Bjarni> funny thing is that they changed the rules for steam trains after that even though it was a diesel train
01:06:29 <Smoovious> yeah... saw a truck a couple days ago throwing sparks from his trailer brake...
01:07:00 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> fires? trees next to the rail? <-- I imagine some sparks has hit some dry leaves or dry grass or something
01:07:21 <Bjarni> I once saw a car throwing sparks from the exhaust pipe
01:07:30 <Bjarni> that didn't look healthy for the car
01:07:37 <Gonozal_VIII> how's that possible?
01:07:47 <Bjarni> could even be a fire in the exhaust pipe
01:08:30 <Bjarni> really poor burning in the engine so that flammable black stuff ends up in the exhaust pipe
01:08:35 <Gonozal_VIII> without enough oil the engine gets stuck but that wouldn't cause sparks out of the exhaust pipe
01:08:46 <Bjarni> the engine heats up first
01:09:01 <Bjarni> an overheated engine can do this too
01:09:23 <Bjarni> maybe the cooling system was broken
01:09:30 <Smoovious> you get friction and engine damage first before it locks up
01:09:56 <Bjarni> glx: sounds like you tried it :P
01:10:02 <glx> or maybe a mix of white and blue
01:10:16 <Gonozal_VIII> who would keep on driving then?^^
01:10:25 <Bjarni> blueish smoke indicates that the engine is burning lube oil
01:11:23 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> who would keep on driving then?^^ <-- some people do... a fair amount of fatal breakdowns are due to people ignoring warnings
01:11:48 <Gonozal_VIII> in a modern car you would have to ignore a lot of warnings...
01:12:12 <Smoovious> nah... just gotta ignore one little 'check engine' idiot light
01:12:40 <Gonozal_VIII> oil pressure and temperature...
01:12:44 <glx> it's a red light, like the break one
01:13:11 <Bjarni> I once borrowed a car and I got the message "the handbrake indicator is broken. Sometimes it turns on at random"
01:13:22 <Bjarni> .... and the owner didn't want to fix this?
01:13:45 <Gonozal_VIII> i hardly ever use the handbrake, i wouldn't fix that indicator either
01:13:50 <glx> false positive, or worse?
01:14:23 <Bjarni> false positive but since it happened all the time you wouldn't know when it was for real
01:14:45 <Gonozal_VIII> you see the brake handle stick up...
01:14:45 <glx> Gonozal_VIII: handbrake is the 'tester' for other brake control indicator
01:14:58 <Bjarni> since the 3rd gear was broken I decided to go though the car before driving... to check security in it
01:15:08 <Bjarni> brakes, lights and stuff worked perfectly
01:15:41 <Bjarni> but I would never ignore failures like that in a vehicle...
01:16:08 <glx> don't forget to check tires too
01:16:24 <Bjarni> the owner just said (about the transmission) "the bolt is loose again"... that was enough for him to know... he didn't actually do anything about it
01:16:54 <Gonozal_VIII> it's not that much of a problem if you try to drive with the handbrake
01:17:04 <Bjarni> <glx> don't forget to check tires too <-- they are supposed to be completely flat to ensure as big a contact with the road as possible, right?
01:17:32 <Bjarni> this reminds me of a time at school
01:18:08 <Bjarni> we learned about tires and safety and how worn they are allowed to be before they needs to be replaced and the teacher got the bright idea to go to the parking lot and measure the tires on the cars there
01:18:18 <Bjarni> remember this was the teacher's cars
01:18:48 <Bjarni> one of them had completely even tires...
01:19:09 <Bjarni> I don't think the other teachers liked the idea of measuring those tires XD
01:19:23 <glx> I have a car with correct sculptures, but you can't read anything on the side :)
01:19:28 <Bjarni> even as in should have been replaced ages ago
01:19:46 <Gonozal_VIII> that's the best friction on a dry road :-)
01:19:59 <Bjarni> but not on a rainy day
01:20:12 <Bjarni> well it would on a dry road on a rainy day but...
01:20:37 <Bjarni> we lack dry roads on rainy days
01:20:51 <Bjarni> <glx> I have a car with correct sculptures, but you can't read anything on the side :) <-- I still don't get what you mean :(
01:20:54 <Gonozal_VIII> you lack tunnels
01:21:11 <Bjarni> we lack grades that justifies tunnels
01:21:38 <Gonozal_VIII> you can drive around in the tunnel until the road outside is dry again :-)
01:21:39 <glx> tire sculptures are ok, but tire side are very bad
01:22:18 <Bjarni> I mean.... at one time the local driver said that we should add a lot of coal to start on because the first 6 km would be uphill.... at a whole 0,5%
01:22:31 <Bjarni> now I get what you mean
01:23:01 <glx> but it passed technical control with a warning, no obligation to change tires
01:23:12 <Gonozal_VIII> i mean.. i don't know if that
01:23:18 <Gonozal_VIII> is much for rails
01:23:37 <Bjarni> compare it to the signs for the roads
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01:24:08 <Bjarni> the line that the Big Boys were designed for had a grade of 1,44% or something
01:24:11 <Smoovious> we got some places, especially through the passes, that are 5-6% grades...
01:24:26 <Bjarni> shay were constructed for 10%
01:24:29 <Smoovious> the trains gotta double-back a lot
01:25:11 <Gonozal_VIII> secret openttd game data^^
01:25:16 <Bjarni> SmatZ: look at who posted that....
01:26:02 <SmatZ> Bjarni: I do not know him, should I?
01:26:56 <Bjarni> he is the guy who reported "the terraforming window opened in my vehicle view window"
01:27:21 <Bjarni> it opened on top of it due to opening on a fixed location
01:27:33 <Bjarni> it didn't open IN it... he didn't even try to move it
01:28:04 <Gonozal_VIII> but it's nice that you can use it through the vehicle windows :-)
01:28:15 <Bjarni> hew also claimed that our train pathfinder was buggy because the trains took a wrong turn when he ordered the pathfinder to look 0 tiles ahead
01:28:46 <Bjarni> I could keep on with all the stuff he said but I think you get the picture
01:28:46 <Gonozal_VIII> that's why i sait it is not it would be :-)
01:29:09 <SmatZ> he is one really funny guy
01:29:20 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm but that's an old feature...
01:30:27 <Bjarni> look him up under bug reports on SF (remember that they are closed) if you want to see what he wrote
01:30:38 <SmatZ> "I'm curious - is the network data for the game encrypted? I'm guessing not." He doesn't even try to look into the code... "And before anyone asks Why - Why not." and has this intelligent reason
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01:32:09 <Gonozal_VIII> greatest fix^ ever^^
01:34:55 <Gonozal_VIII> btw bjarni is that what you wrote about vehicle speed still valid?
01:35:09 <Gonozal_VIII> i thought they are all the same now
01:37:19 <Bjarni> I lack access to that one as well
01:38:20 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: they aren't.. There has been talk about it but then people wanted to keep the numbers so planes would be way too fast
01:39:54 <Gonozal_VIII> train and rv at 45 km/h have the same speed ingame
01:40:16 <Gonozal_VIII> (tested to be sure)
01:40:28 <Bjarni> SmatZ: now I know why... somebody locked it because people should use flyspray instead
01:40:50 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: err... what?
01:41:45 <Gonozal_VIII> you posted there
01:41:59 <Gonozal_VIII> Try to use different vehicles moving at the same speed (in km/h or mph). You will notice that ships and road vehicles move at the same speed while trains moves at half speed. Planes moves way slower than trains. <-- no
01:47:01 <Gonozal_VIII> speed is the same for all vehicle types :-)
01:49:24 <SmatZ> when I compare one bus and one train when both have max 112km/h, the bus is a little bit faster (about 1/4 tile at 1024 tiles)
01:50:55 <Gonozal_VIII> btw why can you sort trains for all kinds of stuff but not the other vehicles?
01:51:09 <Gonozal_VIII> (in the purchase list)
01:52:24 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: how do you mean? I can sort RVs by engineID, name ,reliability...
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01:53:02 <Bjarni> I added a whole lot of stuff you can sort them by
01:53:19 <Gonozal_VIII> aircraft have more options and trains the most
01:53:50 <Bjarni> if you like you can add more
01:53:55 <Bjarni> it's not really tricky
01:54:52 <Bjarni> static int CDECL AircraftEngineCostSorter(const void *a, const void *b)
01:54:52 <Bjarni> const int va = AircraftVehInfo(*(const EngineID*)a)->base_cost;
01:54:52 <Bjarni> const int vb = AircraftVehInfo(*(const EngineID*)b)->base_cost;
01:54:53 <Bjarni> return _internal_sort_order ? -r : r;
01:54:53 <Gonozal_VIII> why is it not the same for all types?
01:55:00 <Bjarni> this is basically how it's done
01:55:19 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> why is it not the same for all types? <-- stuff like power doesn't apply to all vehicle types
01:55:29 <SmatZ> Bjarni: but max speed could be used
01:55:50 <SmatZ> would be useful with newgrf sets where are tens of new buses
01:56:45 <Bjarni> now I see what happened
01:56:47 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm that's another thing... how is their acceleration calculated without power var?
01:56:53 <Bjarni> I never finished ships and road vehicles
01:57:02 <Bjarni> and then I forgot that I didn't finish them
01:57:43 <Bjarni> the stuff you can sort by for those two vehicle types are generic (non vehicle type specific) sort code
01:58:15 <Bjarni> I didn't get around to make the code for data where I had to write specific code for each type
01:58:25 <Gonozal_VIII> max speed is vehicle type specific?
01:58:43 <Gonozal_VIII> ah... less bit used?
01:59:18 <Gonozal_VIII> i read somewhere about rvs being limited to 127 km/h maxspeed
01:59:21 <Bjarni> it's stored in AircraftVehInfo, RailVehInfo and so on
01:59:42 <Bjarni> all structs and all with max_speed in them
01:59:51 <Bjarni> but different struct names, hence need for different code
02:00:17 <SmatZ> maybe max_speed and some crash_counters should me moved out of this structure
02:00:26 <Bjarni> if I recall correctly I ran out of time when writing this
02:00:27 <Gonozal_VIII> that would need classes...
02:00:44 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: no no nooooo nooo more C++ things :-D
02:01:23 <SmatZ> I am not really sure how would it work with savegames... I think the current approach is the best
02:01:26 <Bjarni> the file was called build_vehicle_gui.c when I wrote this
02:02:12 <Bjarni> changing the way this is stored is easy... ensuring that it keeps working with GRF files and stuff is tricky
02:04:12 <Gonozal_VIII> wouldn't do much good for the map... but could help a lot with the windows, vehicles and stuff
02:05:34 <Gonozal_VIII> exactly, stuff :-)
02:06:10 <Bjarni> oo is good for vehicle windows and stuff
02:06:18 <Bjarni> what about vehicle doors?
02:06:28 <Gonozal_VIII> they're suff :-)
02:07:14 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, very sufft indeed
02:08:42 <Gonozal_VIII> see, oo is good for goods :D
02:09:07 <Bjarni> check the discussion too
02:09:16 <Bjarni> "you know, that would be a fun new cargo to include, "Stuff". comes in crates."
02:09:40 <Bjarni> "You may laugh, but I'm gonna use that now! My own PERSONALISED GRF!!! BEST. NIGHT. EVER. "
02:10:30 <Bjarni> I think I will host a server with this one eventually
02:17:18 <Bjarni> and makes me laugh at the same time
02:19:04 <Bjarni> looks like Sacro looks at all jpgs that includes "fucks"
02:19:39 <Gonozal_VIII> sure, how else would you find something like that
02:21:25 <Bjarni> but less fun and less odd
02:21:49 <Bjarni> I wonder if it's photoshopped
02:26:15 <Bjarni> you are to a racist Asian
02:26:28 <Gonozal_VIII> they tried to collect different types of plastic seperately here, 6 different trashcans for plastic... didn't work out too well
02:28:41 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: and do you think that people can tell different types of plastic from each other?
02:28:56 <Gonozal_VIII> we were supposed to
02:29:21 <Gonozal_VIII> but they stopped that not long after it started
02:29:26 <SmatZ> all types of plastic should have a sign what kind of plastic it is
02:32:12 <Gonozal_VIII> yes it's possible to tell them apart but who wants to carry 6 different bags for pastic to the garbage collecting building thing or carry it in one bag and start sorting there?
02:32:35 <Gonozal_VIII> virtual boring^^
02:32:59 <Gonozal_VIII> grass growth simulator!
02:33:21 <glx> ri and li are the same sound in japanese
02:33:26 <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: now that's a nice project for me
02:36:24 <glx> same as love -> ラブ -> rabu
02:36:51 <Gonozal_VIII> or the decay game... you get a sealed box with a single unstable atom in it and you can guess if it decayed
02:37:47 <Gonozal_VIII> if your guess is wrong, your cat dies
02:41:11 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm mental tools
02:41:16 <Bjarni> actually this one isn't Japanese but then again Taiwan used to be Japanese
02:41:30 <Bjarni> please stop torturing your pan
02:42:44 <Gonozal_VIII> no pyrokinesis cooking with that pan?
02:46:14 <SmatZ> I would like to know how many of these pictures are / aren't fakes
02:46:33 <SmatZ> you put your poo inside, and it will make it fresh and clean
02:46:42 <Bjarni> there are 127 million Japanese... most of them had very limited English skills
02:47:07 <Bjarni> so whenever they write something in English they tend to end up like this
02:47:14 <Bjarni> and say 0,1% of it is funny
02:47:33 <Bjarni> which makes a whole lot of funny stuff
02:47:56 <Bjarni> I bet Japan is full of undiscovered funny signs
02:48:17 <Bjarni> Japan is full of stuff
02:48:24 <SmatZ> you should use C++ for Japan
02:48:24 <ln-> one doesn't need to go to japan to find engrish-like product names for things...
02:48:54 <Bjarni> and they have the same Engrish skills
02:49:27 <Bjarni> I have seen some weird stuff in Denmark too but none of them were funny
02:49:41 <Bjarni> "I have many moneys" <-- one guy actually wrote this
02:49:50 <Bjarni> in 8th grade or something
02:50:07 <Bjarni> so he must have been like 15
02:50:17 <ln-> e.g. it is said that a finnish hotel chain "Cumulus" used to have a campaign called "Cum Nights" for some time in the 90's or so.
02:50:21 <SmatZ> but I doubt they do not have any basic English skills / do not pay anyone to check the product's name... so it doesn't sound funny
02:52:02 <ln-> and.. one thing i remember seeing myself, which wasn't even engrish, nor even wrong as such, was an ad of a disco on a ferry:
02:52:52 <ln-> it first said something in finnish, then "feel the beat!" in english, and finally "full fart!" in swedish.
02:52:57 <SmatZ> many porn sites contain texts like "cum inside" instead of "come inside" or so
02:53:04 <ln-> Bjarni will tell you there's nothing wrong with the swedish one.
02:53:40 <Bjarni> SmatZ: if you say so but are you sure it's unintended?
02:53:43 <ln-> the latter word means something totally different in swedish.
02:54:03 <ln-> still not a very bright idea to write it next to english.
02:54:10 <SmatZ> I think someone posted some Danish "child song" that was very nasty in English...
02:54:41 <SmatZ> but it is a good advertisement, when it is funny
02:55:00 <Bjarni> I don't want to pay for looking at dicks...
02:55:14 <Bjarni> I wouldn't even do it for free
02:55:47 <Sacro> Bjarni: not what you said to me last night
02:55:51 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> I think someone posted some Danish "child song" that was very nasty in English... <-- I would like to know which one
02:55:52 <Sacro> SmatZ: Fart in the duck?
02:56:17 <Sacro> even *I* know the difference between danish and dutch
02:56:37 <SmatZ> I just do not remember, I do not know these languages :-/
02:56:50 <Bjarni> hehe... "full fart"... there is a group of people Denmark calling themselves "the fart liberation group" and they want to to be polite to fart everywhere
02:57:35 <Bjarni> I think they have a whole 5 members or so
02:57:49 <Bjarni> <Sacro> Bjarni: not what you said to me last night <--- liar
02:59:34 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't whant to see something that reminds you of looking at dicks...
03:00:58 <Bjarni> now Sacro will work for ages to try to figure out what I just said about him XD
03:01:28 <Bjarni> you just proved my statement
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13:46:45 <oh> what's up with sourceforge?
13:47:06 <oh> it says it has the osx version of b2, but not a single mirror actually carries the file ;>
13:49:50 <oh> someone is playing techno in the next room
13:50:06 <oh> this is where I wish I had some sort of powerful gun
13:54:35 * oh mumbles something about berlios.de ;>
13:56:49 <Rubidium> that is even slower than sf.net is at the moment
13:58:32 <oh> I just remember migrating my project over there a few years ago, was happy with it, then lost interest in the project :)
13:58:57 <oh> bloody ell, download statistics for the nonexistent file says it's been peaking at 25 downloads/hr
13:59:28 <glx> the file is not non existant
13:59:36 <glx> it's just not on all mirrors
14:00:01 <oh> I've typed in the direct links for all mirrors :/
14:02:03 <glx> hmm I see no downloads at all for beta2
14:08:44 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: Shouldn't a link for sorceforge or direct download should be put in open 0.6 beta 2 topic or is there a reason for not doing it ?
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14:17:03 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: a) I was lazy and very tired, b) SF had AND has not yet mirrored
14:17:52 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: no problem for me :) Just newbies may get confused ;)
14:21:31 <Digitalfox> don't be like that Rubidium :|
14:27:08 * Belugas envisionnes some baby birds, mouth wide open, waiting to be feeded by mother bird...
14:28:37 <Digitalfox> Belugas: lol ah ah
14:29:00 <Digitalfox> had a big laugh with what you just said ... :)
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14:32:20 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: and it was that way for the beta1 release too :)
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14:49:37 <Digitalfox> Hum i don't like the Christmas theme on tt forums, not a big problem but don't like it :\ The colours used in many text's don't look well :(
14:51:42 <Digitalfox> Damn belugas you sure have a great imagination.. I can't remove " envisionnes some baby birds, mouth wide open, waiting to be feeded by mother bird... " from my head.. lol
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14:52:17 <Belugas> so you did not liked the theme from last christmas period either Digitalfox?
14:52:50 <Belugas> thanks for imagination stuff :) It is an image i had from the past 6 months floating in my head, to be honest ;)
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14:57:28 <Digitalfox> not really belugas :(
15:13:36 <Belugas> Digitalfox, you could come up with alternatives and prsent them to orudge ;)
15:14:32 <Digitalfox> Yes belugas, but my problem is with colors.. Like for example the URL link color it's a green dark that almost looks like normal black color text
15:15:01 <Digitalfox> But maybe it's just me, since i haven't heard any other people complaint :\
15:15:02 <Belugas> that's waht i've said : bring in alternatives
15:15:51 <Digitalfox> Well an alternative would be the old URL link color light green or dark yellow
15:17:16 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: I didn't have a problem how it was, i was just saying that most users didn't know where to look for a download, since in openttd.org there's no link either :) But yes it's better :)
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15:21:51 <orudge> is somebody going to post a news item on openttd.org about beta 2, or shall I do that?
15:22:06 <orudge> or are we waiting for more binaries or somesuch
15:23:05 <orudge> it's been announced on the forums
15:23:13 <orudge> so I'll announce it on the site, then
15:23:40 <BiA|pavel-css> orudge, the Owen Rudge? :O
15:23:52 <BiA|pavel-css> the "creator" of OpenTTD?
15:24:01 <orudge> it's already been postd
15:24:11 <orudge> I just had an old cached version :P
15:24:25 <orudge> it's not been made public maybe?
15:24:40 <Rubidium> it's just the cache that has ****ed up again
15:24:42 <orudge> I can see it when I'm logged in
15:24:55 <orudge> BiA|pavel-css: of a sort, yes
15:25:03 <orudge> not the actual creator, but I got Ludde to release it ;)
15:25:10 <orudge> and I run tt-forums, transporttycoon.net, etc
15:25:27 <BiA|pavel-css> wow, nice to meet you :)
15:25:41 <Rubidium> so... trashed the cache ;)
15:26:17 <Rubidium> orudge: we do not have a non-published state on the website
15:26:30 <orudge> it just confused me a bit... makes sense now, though :
15:28:46 <kris> i have a little thing i need some help too
15:30:10 <kris> i have made a own server but no one comes in to the server, look like its closed for others clients!
15:30:44 <Digitalfox> kris: Have you got a firewall and if yes the ports necessary for openttd open?
15:31:36 <BiA|pavel-css> it reminds me my problem with my server :P ... tomorow i am gonna buy DVD's burn everythink and foramt :)
15:31:37 <kris> but i have tryed that but dosent know really how do open 3979 udp and tcp
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15:34:32 <kristyburg> whats the site again ?
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15:40:43 <Draagon> does it require to register FS?
15:41:30 <Digitalfox> Yes for bug posting in FS it's required registering :)
15:41:51 <Digitalfox> It's easy and simple
15:42:22 <Digitalfox> Is there a reason why you can't register?
15:42:23 <Draagon> just dont remember the address :P
15:42:39 <Draagon> just need to fill in a quick bug report
15:42:42 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: because when you are not registered, you will not be notified of requests
15:43:01 <Rubidium> like questions for savegames, or testing whether a fix worked
15:43:17 <Rubidium> s/Digitalfox/Draagon/
15:43:42 <Digitalfox> Yes Rubidium i know, i was telling him that to report bugs it's necessary registering, but you know explained why it's needed :)
15:44:01 <orudge> hmm, I haven't looked at the openttd wiki in a while, that new front page looks rather snazzy
15:46:24 <Digitalfox> Nevver happen to me .9
15:47:16 <Draagon> looks like company value is way to high in ss2 which is good :P
15:49:40 <Draagon> intresting, hotmail is slow today
15:50:13 <kristyburg> i think have done it bow digitalfox!
15:54:02 <Digitalfox> no problem kristyburg :) But bow for openttd dev's they are the ones who it all possible ;)
15:54:41 <glx> Draagon: check in junk mail
15:54:48 <Draagon> why dint industry selector for maps made it do 0.6.0beta1?
15:55:19 <kristyburg> but now i got closed client all the time.... i use dedicated server!
15:55:37 <Draagon> glx: thx dint gome to that :P
15:56:40 <Digitalfox> Draagon: Well it's in beta2 if i'm not mistaken :)
15:57:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
15:58:13 <kristyburg> can someone check if someone can join my server!? !!!!Krisworld
15:58:20 <Digitalfox> hello bjarni the master freak ;)
15:58:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
15:58:32 <kristyburg> i use openttd 0.5.3
15:59:01 <Digitalfox> kristyburg: I don't play in multiplayer :(
15:59:13 <Draagon> kristyburg: what server and do you have any grfs?
15:59:34 <Bjarni> I think it's Krisworld
16:01:15 <Digitalfox> A openTTD server still using r9976... :|
16:01:52 <Draagon> so what? one server uses even MiniIN
16:02:44 <Rubidium> as long as nobody bothers to use the exploits in the MiniIN server, it'll probably stay there
16:03:28 <glx> I can't remember how to kill a MiniIN server :)
16:03:36 <Digitalfox> yes Draagon, but r9976 is very old and people who use MiniIN at least use the last version of it..
16:04:18 <kristyburg> see you guys , thx for the helps!
16:04:34 <Draagon> Rubidium: you can always make some patches that have turn off/on options so server admins can disable exploiding features
16:05:04 <Draagon> Digitalfox: mabye thei use r9976 because they want so
16:05:09 <BiA|pavel-css> why only me must have some strange errors :(
16:05:27 <Draagon> Rubidium: those who write patches can
16:05:40 * Rubidium wonders why Windows isn't full of off/on options for all exploits
16:06:09 <BiA|pavel-css> because they dont want to make them that visible?
16:06:10 <Digitalfox> Draagon: I'm not saying they can't, i'm just saying the newer nighlty build the better ( unless there's a crash bug )
16:06:16 <Rubidium> new commit: New patch option to turn of remotely execution of arbitrary code
16:06:29 <Rubidium> new commit: New patch option to turn *on* remotely execution of arbitrary code
16:06:50 <Rubidium> new commit: New patch option to turn on fork bombs
16:07:32 <Draagon> Digitalfox: you cant make so that ppl cant use rXXXX for servers
16:08:09 <Rubidium> actually, I can make old versions very unusable in multiplayer
16:09:05 <Rubidium> in one line of code ;)
16:09:18 <Digitalfox> I was only saying that if people use nightly build's for a server, at least they should try to have a recent build
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16:09:42 <Draagon> i know but some other guys then be pirates and release clean versions
16:10:40 <Rubidium> nice for them, but that will be totally useless for the 'normal' game servers
16:11:33 <Rubidium> because I just make it impossible to get a registration in the server list for certain version number
16:12:27 <Rubidium> and when they 'fake' the version number, it's likely they get only desyncy clients
16:12:31 <Draagon> but why should you do that?
16:13:00 <Rubidium> did I say I will do it?
16:13:03 <Draagon> why should you sabotage every versions source code?
16:13:04 <Rubidium> I only said I can do it
16:13:14 <Draagon> but i asked why should you
16:13:36 <Rubidium> I can also say that I can write PBS, but that doesn't mean I am going to do it (or am even thinking about it)
16:14:48 <Draagon> is somebody working on PBS?
16:15:12 <Rubidium> at least not in a way that has shown any progress the last month
16:17:40 <Draagon> it seems to be that you, devs, dont have any fun aka not playing (O)TTD or any other games, am i wrong? :P
16:18:04 <BiA|pavel-css> but it must be so complicated so i can understand it
16:18:55 <Draagon> erm there is a Patch for PBS that will work on OpenTTD but with r3xxxx and only if you have NPF on
16:19:08 *** Draagon is now known as Draakon
16:20:13 <Rubidium> yup, it's months ago that I last really played OTTD.
16:20:30 <Rubidium> though I played a single session of solitaire last weekend, but I don't think it counts.
16:21:49 <Draakon> i think not only OpenTTD devs but other game devs should have the right to play at last once a month togheter with the same game :P
16:21:52 <Digitalfox> Sorry to hear that Rubidium, it would be fun for you to play some of the feautures you introduced ;)
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16:23:29 * Bjarni notes that only Digitalfox considers himself an alien or freak in here
16:23:36 <Bjarni> so the rest of us should be pretty normal
16:24:23 <Digitalfox> Bjarni but but but you're are master at freak stuff :|
16:24:24 <Rubidium> ah well, I still have to optimise the last game I started ;)
16:24:39 <Bjarni> so let us ignore that freak and sit down in a circle and compare our tin foil hats... I bet mine is the prettiest one
16:24:47 <Rubidium> 128x128 map and still not fully optimised after 170 game years ;)
16:25:14 <Digitalfox> You like perfection on each game right?
16:25:23 <Rubidium> but then again, optimising primarily takes time because you need to observe the behaviour to improve it
16:25:26 <Draakon> Rubidium: are you good networker?
16:25:31 <Bjarni> Rubidium is an OpenTTD Borg
16:25:47 <Bjarni> always seeking perfection and assimilating everything that prevents it
16:26:14 <Rubidium> AI players add extra difficulty on small maps ;)
16:26:30 <Rubidium> primarily because of their uberstupid routes that make it impossible for you to make routes
16:26:40 <Draakon> AI players suck till NoAI Branch gets to trunk
16:27:16 <Rubidium> ... only NoAI has no real AIs yet ;)
16:27:21 <Rubidium> and it's far from finished
16:27:30 <BiA|pavel-css> NoAI branch, doesnt it mean that AI will be removed? :)
16:27:34 <Bjarni> I'm not opening that link
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16:27:54 <Digitalfox> Bjarni: You should is weel taken.. :)
16:27:59 <Rubidium> maybe I should continue devving on the NoAI branch when I have time
16:28:00 <Bjarni> I value my humanity higher than opening random links sent to be my freaks on the internet
16:28:03 <Belugas> [11:23] <Draagon> it seems to be that you, devs, dont have any fun aka not playing (O)TTD or any other games, am i wrong? :P <--- i don't remember the last time i really played a game. But somwehow, the fun for me is more related to adding new features and making them right. Doing code and see your ideas come to life is much more trilling for me than making tons of money
16:28:11 <Belugas> virtual money, sadly ;)
16:28:13 <Rubidium> (a lot of time that is)
16:28:31 <glx> I only start openttd when fixing bugs :)
16:28:55 <Draakon> dam i wanna dev something too! but dont have knowledge to do it and im lazy to get it too
16:29:25 <Bjarni> lack of knowledge isn't a problem... you can always learn
16:29:30 <fjb> Draakon: Then pay someone to do it for you.
16:29:33 <Bjarni> lazy is a severe issue though
16:29:52 <Draakon> fjb: will do if you send the money :P
16:29:57 <Bjarni> fjb just pointed out the only known workaround for laziness
16:30:09 <Digitalfox> When happen the code change that made newships.grf load a new ship depot and new harbor? :\
16:30:18 <Bjarni> but if you are lazy then you lack a paying job too :s
16:30:27 <fjb> Draakon: Maybe. Depends on what it is and how much you are paying.
16:30:40 <Draakon> im not old enough to even go to work!
16:30:49 <Rubidium> Draakon: three years back or so?
16:30:56 <Bjarni> fjb: he wants a titlescreen without bells and he needs €500 to do it
16:31:21 <Draakon> Rubidium> Draakon: three years back or so? sry what you mean by that
16:31:24 <Digitalfox> Well i'm lazy so i work on my own and have one guy working for me doing stuff so i can be at home chatting in openttd irc, how fun is that :(...
16:31:28 <Rubidium> you can't be that young and be able to write
16:31:46 <Rubidium> Draakon: tab completion failed on me, was meant for Digitalfox
16:32:05 <Bjarni> a modern teenager who can actually spell
16:32:14 <Bjarni> is this candid camera or something?
16:32:20 <orudge> Hey, I was a teenager once, and I could spell perfectly well
16:32:31 <Bjarni> orudge: but that was ages ago
16:32:34 <orudge> although, I did have a tendency to use a couple too many exclamation marks when I was 12 or 13
16:32:38 <fjb> orudge: How long ago was that?
16:32:41 <Draakon> English is even not my home language
16:32:43 <orudge> well, I turned 20 this year, fjb
16:33:04 <orudge> my TT Station was first created in 2000, when I was 13
16:33:23 <Draakon> intresting thing i think: brittians like TT more then rest of people
16:33:30 <orudge> Draakon: well, it is a Britishgame :)
16:33:35 <Rubidium> orudge: how old is Zernebok now?
16:33:36 <Bjarni> you aren't contaminated then
16:33:50 <Draakon> and how did you come to that, Bjarni?
16:33:53 <orudge> Rubidium: hmm, depends on the measure
16:34:14 <Bjarni> Draakon: the spyware I added in OpenTTD to figure out everything about our players
16:34:26 <Bjarni> either that or I check your DNS
16:34:28 <orudge> the domain was registered in January 2005, Rubidium
16:34:41 <orudge> however, I've been doing hosting since 2002, in various forms
16:34:59 <Rubidium> so... orudge has been working since he was 15 ;)
16:35:14 <Draakon> ok lets get to talk ABOUT OTTD? this is what this IRC Channel is about
16:35:16 <orudge> I've been programming since I was 8 or so ;)
16:35:22 <Bjarni> Draakon: try a whois on yourself... it will tell that you have a .ee domain and I know the country codes ;)
16:35:47 <orudge> [16:35:11] <Draakon> ok lets get to talk ABOUT OTTD? this is what this IRC Channel is about <-- really? nobody told me... ;)
16:36:03 <Bjarni> that small island in the Pacific
16:36:10 <Draakon> orduge: channel topic is this:
16:36:11 <Draakon> 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta2 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory | use English | And please, no YouTube links
16:36:54 <fjb> Bjarni: Time again to change the topic. :-)
16:37:30 *** Draakon is now known as DraakonEATING
16:37:32 *** Bjarni changes topic to "0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta2 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory | use English | no off topic YouTube links"
16:38:07 <Bjarni> I don't know what you wanted me to change so I just changed something :P
16:38:39 <fjb> Now we declare everything talked about here to be on topic. :-)
16:39:16 <Bjarni> actually it's only the topic if declared so by at least one person with permission to kick people
16:39:41 <orudge> so, who wants to reimplement OpenTTD in Whitespace?
16:39:58 <Bjarni> but DraakonEATING might want to try
16:42:26 <Rubidium> Bjarni: and where is .vu from?
16:43:09 <orudge> but deja were bought by Google!
16:45:02 <Belugas> hehee reading "vuugle" in french sounds a bit like "vos gueules", loosely translated as "Shut You mouth"
16:47:52 <DraakonEATING> k all i mus go now, bye all!
16:48:00 *** DraakonEATING is now known as Draakon
16:49:38 <Bjarni> are you sure you want to know the answer to that question?
16:50:12 <Bjarni> you risk getting the answer
16:50:29 <fjb> Some times I take some risk.
16:52:11 <Bjarni> it's like Russian roulette
16:52:20 <Bjarni> it can be fun until it's not
16:52:30 <Bjarni> and then you will never be able to recover
16:52:39 <fjb> That risk doesn't count as unneeded.
16:54:12 <Bjarni> it's clear that this strategy never backfired on you
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16:58:14 <fjb> You clearly have to define everything. :-)
17:00:36 <fjb> Hm, what does rail_firstred_twoway_eol do?
17:02:03 <hylje> red two way is considered an dead end
17:06:35 <Maarten> heh, banks appear outside of cities like normal industries in 0.6.0-beta2 :P
17:07:06 <Bjarni> personally I haven't seen it
17:07:45 <Bjarni> I meant in a game here
17:07:49 <Maarten> if you log on to Maarten1 server you'll find 3 banks out in the open
17:07:54 <Bjarni> I have seen the image on the forum
17:08:27 *** Gonozal_VIII has joined #openttd
17:09:02 <Maarten> don't know if it even helps, but I guess you could do a save of that game and find out whats up. I believe they have been there since map generation
17:09:50 <Belugas> i doubt it is usefull to have a save aof the game...
17:09:56 <Belugas> it is too late already
17:11:09 <Maarten> I don't mind it though, makes it much easier to use banks :P
17:11:29 <Belugas> on the other hand, it migfht be handy to have saves of before the bank appeared
17:11:39 *** Lord|away has joined #openttd
17:12:52 <Maarten> I can also "fund" a bank in the middle of nowhere, I just built a bank on Maarten1 outside of town
17:14:04 *** MDGrein has joined #openttd
17:18:42 <Maarten> yeah I just built a bank, and connected one bank with another :P
17:18:44 <glx> lol banks cannot be built on houses
17:19:04 <Maarten> for once, not one I really mind :D
17:20:24 <fjb> You customers will mind... :-)
17:22:37 * Belugas finishes his plate and svn updates
17:22:54 <glx> I know where the bug is and why :)
17:23:35 <fjb> glx: Please tell us. Did the bank robbers invent that bug?
17:23:58 <Maarten> much easier to rob a bank in the middle of nowhere..... heh, heh
17:25:37 <fjb> But much less money in that bank, I would guess.
17:25:58 <Belugas> CheckIfIndustryIsAllowed should add the test for MP_HOUSE?
17:26:11 <Gonozal_VIII> it's an internet banking bank :-)
17:27:08 <fjb> Hm, the internet is in the middle of nowhere?
17:27:14 <glx> Belugas: r11609 removed a flag test
17:27:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11615 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11609): temperate banks can only be built in towns (over a house)
17:27:36 <Gonozal_VIII> sure fjb or have you seen any internet around lately?
17:28:36 * Belugas had fun scratching his head
17:28:38 <fjb> No, last time I saw a net was when I was visiting a town at the coast. And that was the middle of nowhere.
17:30:18 <glx> now we can say nightlies are more stable than beta ;)
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17:31:23 <Belugas> it would have help to find it if my repo waht not dated of r11545 ;)
17:31:32 <fjb> Nighlies are not beta anymore.
17:31:49 <glx> I just checked my mails to find the problem :)
17:32:36 <Belugas> at home, i alwas keep them, but not at work :(
17:32:50 <Belugas> i can only use logs or blame
17:36:47 <Belugas> Maarten, if you liked the bank as it was, it can be easily done using a grf, a really simple one ;)
17:37:38 <fjb> Maarten never uses grfs...
17:39:13 <Belugas> fjb, there's always a start to anything, there is always a first time
17:46:51 *** Lord|away has left #openttd
17:47:13 <BiA|pavel-css> anyone here can help me with handling "STR_SAVE_STILL_IN_PROGRESS" error message :X i am working on some patch and this ugly error is called every autosave :X
17:49:11 <Belugas> it would really help to see your code...
17:49:46 <LeviathNL> I had this also in unmodified trunk some days ago
17:49:55 <BiA|pavel-css> i should upload it to anywhere or send you?
17:50:54 <Belugas> upload it anywhere :)
17:51:12 <glx> BiA|pavel-css: that means saving takes very long
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17:53:47 <glx> LeviathNL: probably fixed now as the debugging stuff as been removed
17:54:23 <glx> (this debugging stuff did autosave every month after checking vehicle count)
17:54:53 <LeviathNL> the fix to stop the kirby trains from taking over the world?
17:55:15 <glx> the debug stuff to fix this yes
17:55:59 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, yes now i see what you mean
17:57:15 <Wolf01> lowering the bottom slopes by one level will solve also the alignment with the full sloped corner tiles
17:57:48 *** LordAzamath has joined #openttd
17:58:25 <BiA|pavel-css> but at this state, it can only remove money :P
17:59:05 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, so only 4 tiles will change?
17:59:07 <glx> hmm I can say it probably never go in trunk
17:59:44 <Wolf01> 4 tiles for every step, so 16
18:02:05 <LeviathNL> Won' t the full-sloped tiles need to be lowered also?
18:02:12 <LeviathNL> oh, no they won' t :)
18:02:48 <LeviathNL> I never noticed that alignment issue
18:03:01 <BiA|pavel-css> well, this is my fifth patch and all are just things that boost my gameplay with friends ;) and i am almost sure, noone of them will get to trunk at least i dont see any idea of patch which can get to trunk
18:04:59 <Belugas> there are plenty of suggestions in forums. Most of them are pure craziness, but who knows, you might find something useful in here
18:05:24 <LeviathNL> oh wait they do. :o I'm confusing
18:06:08 <BiA|pavel-css> Belugas: there is 3suggestions i really like, but ... all is impossible atm with my programing leasons so i just wait if sameone do them
18:07:00 <BiA|pavel-css> s/leasons/experience
18:07:02 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, but the alignment issue with the fullsloped issue is not related to the bottom-sloped tiles. just an error in the sprite
18:07:10 <Belugas> which ones? out of curiosity
18:07:42 <LeviathNL> I also noticed another mis-colored pixel on the full-sloped tiles facing South
18:08:37 <BiA|pavel-css> depots like stations i.e. one way in, other out of depot :)
18:09:11 <hylje> BiA|pavel-css: also train-length-constrained
18:09:25 <hylje> BiA|pavel-css: and need enough space for warehousing
18:09:29 <BiA|pavel-css> and not one-tile-depo can hold unlimited trains with unlimited length
18:10:07 <BiA|pavel-css> second: PBS ... no comment needed here
18:10:34 <BiA|pavel-css> third: programable signals .... at least with function speed limit or sth ... ;)
18:10:38 <Belugas> depots like stations <--- good luck, but... will not be in trunk (my opinion). Plus, it will be a nightmare
18:11:03 <Gonozal_VIII> depots connected to a dock where a ship comes and delivers your trains after some time :-)
18:11:14 <Belugas> PBS... get yourself a really good book on C++ ;)
18:11:14 <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII: hehe
18:11:33 <BiA|pavel-css> Belugas: this mean, it's easy? :o)
18:11:56 <Belugas> programmable signals... that seems like the "easiest" of them all
18:12:10 <Gonozal_VIII> programmable switches :D
18:12:12 <Belugas> BiA|pavel-css, i really doubt it would be easy, really
18:13:05 <BiA|pavel-css> since were stupid patch is giving me error, i cant handle it :-/
18:13:20 <BiA|pavel-css> *since stupid patch
18:13:23 <Wolf01> LeviathNL, i can't see it :(
18:13:28 <Belugas> and by the way, try to work on something that does not add "YET" another patch setting... those are quite boring...
18:14:16 <LordAzamath> hmm....try to think something useful....like autoroad was
18:14:18 <Belugas> and why are they called "patches" settings anyway??? those are full blown settings... We are not patching anything
18:14:46 <Gonozal_VIII> diagonal bridges, roads and tunnels :-)
18:15:44 <Belugas> was not aware :) thanks LordAzamath
18:16:21 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't see anything special in that circle? :S
18:16:30 <Wolf01> strange, i used the flood fill to search and destroy it, but i missed it :P
18:16:59 <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII: you are not alone :D
18:17:45 <Gonozal_VIII> but the row next to it is thicker...
18:17:45 <LordAzamath> a brighter pixel I guess is the issue
18:19:28 * BiA|pavel-css is gonna try to do some cool AI
18:20:21 <LordAzamath> ..but that's in squirrel not c(++)...although I have no idea of differences :D
18:24:28 <Belugas> one idea that i liked very much was the one Bilbo came up with, the pile of dirt one.
18:24:51 <Belugas> basically, all that you dig up somewhere, you have to put somewhere else, with a aprice to it
18:25:54 <BiA|pavel-css> here come another idea, that one tile have some "tons" and you will have to transport it by trucks/trains to that another location :)
18:26:46 <Gonozal_VIII> special trucks that don't need roads :-)
18:27:12 <BiA|pavel-css> :-/ ... when you dig up, you wil have to transport that dirt by your own :)
18:28:00 <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII: help me and translocate my sentense to english :)
18:28:12 <glx> or you pay someone else to transport it ;)
18:28:22 <Belugas> i was more thinking of virtual dirt than physical one
18:28:32 <Belugas> a bit like dirt-credits
18:28:49 <Belugas> just an indicator in the player struct
18:29:02 <Belugas> the more you dig, the more the indicator grows
18:29:03 <Gonozal_VIII> i know the idea... but some animated trucks that drive around and get the dirt would be nice :-)
18:29:25 <Belugas> don't like the idea...
18:29:56 <BiA|pavel-css> animated truck :X
18:30:25 <Belugas> like... when you build railways, do you see construction trains? with rails, wood and such?
18:30:31 <glx> and some people already think there are too many animations
18:30:45 <Gonozal_VIII> that's the next thing :D
18:31:00 <Belugas> that is the LAST thing ;)
18:31:09 <Wolf01> LeviathNL, move down those slopes ;)
18:31:12 <Belugas> or rather the NONE thing
18:31:32 <Gonozal_VIII> ok you're right... useful features are more important then some eyecandy
18:31:55 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, haha sorry, I was waiting for you to repaint them :P
18:32:13 *** mikegrb is now known as oom_killer
18:32:17 <LordAzamath> one thing that was in coop server mentioned once was that it could be possible to see how much have you changed terraform from beginning...you know they dont' like tf very much :D
18:32:19 *** oom_killer is now known as mikegrb
18:32:52 <LordAzamath> terrain from the beg...*
18:33:46 <Belugas> for me, it is as usefull as the announcment of record speed idea
18:33:58 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, look ok now. but because of the gridlines which are the same color as the vertical part of the slopes some steps look larger
18:34:46 <Belugas> or Locomotion? don't know. I've nt experienced it myself
18:34:49 <Wolf01> uhm, i see that the borders of the normal slopes are a pixel too thick, or maybe are the other borders a pixel less thick... complete redraw?
18:34:51 <Gonozal_VIII> aah gridlines... how about them being extra sprites that you can turn on and off during the game?
18:35:31 <Wolf01> no, they are bricks, not gridless terrain :D
18:35:39 <Belugas> do you feel like redrawing all ground tiles? Ask Wolf01 how much of a pain in the lower back it is ...
18:36:01 <Belugas> And, for the recrod, I LOVE the grid ground type
18:36:03 <LeviathNL> I always found it strange that ground tiles must be repainted on for example railroad-tiles
18:36:14 <Wolf01> but i painted all of them one by one, pixel per bixel... :D
18:36:30 <LordAzamath> what about converting some 32bpp to 8bpp? And for the record, I also don't mind those gridlines
18:37:01 <Gonozal_VIII> newterrain looks good without gridlines :-)
18:37:01 <LeviathNL> I don' t mind the gridlines but I do the idea of them being part of ground tiles
18:37:39 <Belugas> [13:42] <Gonozal_VIII> newterrain looks good without gridlines :-) <--- they look boring, with perspective illusion harder to get. That's my own impression
18:38:03 <Gonozal_VIII> that's why i suggested gridline sprites that you can turn on and off
18:38:12 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, right now you blast a 2pixel layer of the ground tiles then demolishing hem :P
18:38:14 <Belugas> i do not see what is the fuzz about gridless ground, other than the eternal and ho so hatred Realism
18:38:25 <LordAzamath> talking about all new terrain and things...how is the 8bpp graphics replacement project going :D
18:38:57 <LordAzamath> I have no idea what stalled means :D
18:39:20 <Belugas> stalled? it means they are waiting for you to continue their work ;)
18:39:33 <Belugas> and not as beta tester!!
18:40:05 <LordAzamath> hmm...what about beta2 tester?
18:41:17 <LordAzamath> actually...there are lot's of things already done..which are listed on that page
18:42:05 <LordAzamath> so why not revive it, so OTTD wouldn't indeed have any (c) issues or pseudo-issues
18:42:14 <Belugas> my guess is taht since the retirement of Alltaken, no one voluntered to hold control of the project
18:42:37 <LordAzamath> which isn't very hard to do though
18:42:49 * Belugas consecrates LordAzamath as a new candidate for the direction of the project
18:43:06 <BiA|pavel-css> Belugas: tell sameone that with this forum colors i can't see attachments :)
18:43:11 * LordAzamath will give it a thought
18:43:11 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm put everything that's ready into the nightlies/beta for people to see?
18:43:40 * Belugas points all complains of the forums scheme to his friend orudge
18:44:06 <Wolf01> LeviathNL, you will kill me, but i'm adding a pixel at the tile borders of the slopes to make them more consistent with the borders :P
18:44:07 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, how about blowing off a layer of brick instead of only the studs?
18:44:15 <LordAzamath> but as it seems you are not very ....dunno the word... to include any external grf's
18:44:24 <LordAzamath> like generic tram set in example
18:45:12 <LeviathNL> the same as now but the fully demolished tiles will be down 2 pixels
18:46:01 <Belugas> once more... why generic tram set should it be included? People can find it by themselves. It is not even hard to find. Too bad lazyness cannot kill...
18:46:28 <Belugas> ho... suddenly, an image of baby birds just popped up in my head
18:46:53 <Gonozal_VIII> soooo why not include it? the game supports trams but doesn't have them by default...
18:47:00 <LordAzamath> once more...for it would be great to have any use of a already implemented feature in multi
18:47:20 <orudge> it's only for Christmas ;)
18:47:35 <orudge> or maybe I'll put the normal theme on at Christmas, and the winter theme year round
18:47:40 <Belugas> for the record, orudge, i like the forums scheme
18:47:55 <BiA|pavel-css> but i cant see link with black background color :)
18:48:11 <BiA|pavel-css> LeviathNL: as you are working on 32bpp, is anywhere downloadable graphics which was introduced a while ago ... ?
18:49:21 <LeviathNL> I don't know, I'm that into 32bpp I only do the offsets for Wolf01
18:51:06 * LordAzamath thinks how did Belugas again manage to not answer to request to include Generic Tram Set...
18:51:59 <BiA|pavel-css> ah, that my question was mentioned to LordAzamath :)
18:52:20 <Belugas> [13:51] <@Belugas> once more... why generic tram set should it be included? People can find it by themselves. It is not even hard to find. Too bad lazyness cannot kill...
18:52:30 <LordAzamath> 20:45:11Gonozal_VIII soooo why not include it? the game supports trams but doesn't have them by default...20:45:18LordAzamath once more...for it would be great to have any use of a already implemented feature in multi
18:52:49 <Belugas> [13:52] <@Belugas> ho... suddenly, an image of baby birds just popped up in my head
18:52:50 <svippy> Argh! I am tasting the horror of different speed trains on the same tracks again!
18:53:19 <BiA|pavel-css> yeah, we need programable signals :)
18:53:23 <Belugas> httpL//devs.openttd.org/~belugas/GimmeMore.jpg
18:53:25 <Gonozal_VIII> same reasoning.... why release a beta when people can just use nightlies instead?
18:53:38 <svippy> That link failed, Belugas.
18:53:46 <orudge> ah, httpL, that lovely new protocol
18:53:49 <orudge> http with added laughing
18:54:30 <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII: actually i dont see any reason why use beta since nightlies are so cool .)
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18:56:40 <LordAzamath> I just checked out generictrams_v0.32.grf Latest version (18/07/2007), with passenger, goods and mail trams. (89.19 KB) Downloaded 3865 times
18:56:53 <LordAzamath> is it really toooo hard to include?
18:57:30 <LordAzamath> and lot's of players don't even know about tt-forums
18:57:42 <Belugas> LordAzamath, another pretty good reason, is that the author never (to my knowledge) presented himself and offered it. Plus, it would mean WE would be responsible for debugging it, if evr one bug came out of it. And don't tell me the author would supplly us the fix... Just look at the group feature...
18:58:19 <Belugas> so, now, you know the situation. No freaking begging, please
18:58:20 <LordAzamath> but how come you include patches to trunk?
18:58:38 <LordAzamath> "Plus, it would mean WE would be responsible for debugging it, if evr one bug came out of it. And don't tell me the author would supplly us the fix..."
18:58:48 <Wolf01> i'll see what i can do
18:58:49 <BiA|pavel-css> yeah, i have same question :)
18:59:19 <Belugas> LordAzamath: after lenghtly examination, after carefull testing, etc etc.... IT's not everything that goes into trunk
18:59:48 <LordAzamath> oh njeh...hopeless discussion....
18:59:57 <Belugas> [14:03] <LordAzamath> and lot's of players don't even know about tt-forums <--- such a good argument...
19:00:05 <Belugas> [14:02] <LordAzamath> 3865 times <--- at least, some do !
19:00:36 <LordAzamath> I meant that then there would be a lot more users of generic tram setr
19:00:54 <LordAzamath> It's like I have three classmates, who play ottd
19:01:16 <LordAzamath> and they seem to have always the latest stables
19:01:26 <LordAzamath> and they have bever used a grf
19:01:38 <LordAzamath> and they know nothing about forums
19:01:51 <Gonozal_VIII> just look at the server list, most servers are stable without any grfs
19:02:05 <Belugas> not really curious folks... I hope you educated them a little..
19:03:21 <LordAzamath> so whatever my argumentation would be you'll never going to include it...:( sorry to hear
19:03:43 <Belugas> you see, the day i first got my hands on OTTD, I was so thrilled to waht i've discovered that i wanted to learn more about it. Guess what, it didn't took me long to find the website
19:04:01 <Belugas> which, incidentlt was already linked to the forums
19:04:12 <Gonozal_VIII> yes same for me.. but not all people are like that
19:04:35 <LordAzamath> I started playing ttd out of boredom on some very old crappy machine this summer!
19:05:03 <LordAzamath> and it took me some time to look for help how to install patch there a lot later
19:05:22 <LordAzamath> and I started openttding in middle-end august
19:06:40 <LordAzamath> ok not even this summer
19:06:57 <LordAzamath> a few months before summer holidays
19:09:12 <LordAzamath> sorry my enter key needed cleaning
19:10:46 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, looks great!
19:11:40 <SmatZ> Belugas: "686% of an estimated 8k tonnes transported" ... is there any upper limit for this?
19:12:07 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, shall I upload the tar?
19:12:40 <Wolf01> i think i should do the other 12 corners before a release
19:13:04 <Belugas> dunno, SmatZ. It might be a bug. might as wel investigate. you can reproduce?
19:13:06 <LeviathNL> I meant to you so you could see it yourself
19:13:37 <Belugas> hehehe.. my first forum post was a bug report :D
19:13:54 <Wolf01> a screenshot should be enough :P
19:15:32 * LeviathNL notices the fullslope facing north is not correct yet
19:16:12 <LordAzamath> Belugas..funny to your first post and answer
19:16:23 <Wolf01> uhm... i'm not convinced about the colors :P
19:17:21 <Gonozal_VIII> well... all direcitons
19:18:23 <LeviathNL> Gonozal_VIII, I don't see it..
19:19:07 <Belugas> LordAzamath : yeah indeed :) plus, i was not able to write in C/C++ back then (sometimers, i still think i can't ;) )
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19:23:46 <Wolf01> doh, the V shaped slopes...
19:25:57 <LordAzamath> Belugas ...Now imagine that I had a lot of time and I'd want to do that...If I would start coordinating the 8bpp replacement.. (I'm NOT saying I will), would ther be a chance that if all graphics are collected (with agreement to use them), would they be included instead of current trg*(r).grfs? Because this needs to be done, because as I'm convinced the need for 8bpp doesn't go away anywhere....
19:26:25 <LordAzamath> and btw what's in sample.cat?
19:26:47 <Belugas> sample.cat is for sounds
19:26:57 <Belugas> 8bpp is there to stay a long time
19:27:14 <LordAzamath> yes, I understand
19:27:35 <Belugas> yes, if we can come up with a finished set of 8bpp replacement, with authors aggrement, it surely will get into trunk
19:27:58 <Belugas> ad yes, i agree too that is has to be done
19:29:32 <LordAzamath> ok...I'll think of starting to ask permissions for things..
19:29:42 <LordAzamath> like ttrs for town buildings...
19:30:59 <Belugas> ttrs? mhhh... ttrs3 does not have the vote of everyone... ttrs2 was more suitable for the job
19:31:58 <LordAzamath> and that's exactly what needs to be done...to start asking 1.permissions 2.opinions
19:32:14 <LordAzamath> it would be useless, if people themselves don't like it
19:32:43 <Belugas> and a battle plan of what sprites are done and what are yet to be done
19:33:07 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, fixed the V-shaped slopes
19:33:11 <LordAzamath> thing that can be updated
19:33:43 <Wolf01> yes, is possible to fix them without redraw, but the offsets change
19:33:56 * Belugas goes back in his work@work coccoon
19:34:24 <LordAzamath> you're at work :D
19:35:35 <Belugas> let see... it is right now 14:41, in quebec canada... Yup, pretty much at work
19:37:25 <Gonozal_VIII_> so you're 6 hours and 6 minutes behind cet?
19:37:42 <Gonozal_VIII_> 5 hours 54 minutes :-)
19:37:57 <LordAzamath> you know we have 7 hrs in between :D it's 21:36
19:38:11 <LordAzamath> and I have to do my homework too :D
19:39:18 <Gonozal_VIII_> shit homework...
19:39:19 * LordAzamath is going to do some homework
19:39:54 <Gonozal_VIII_> you shouldn't have said that, now i feel bad about not doing mine right now
19:41:31 <Belugas> muwhahaha.... let's go kids, finish your meals and start your homework!
19:42:38 * LordAzamath slaps Belugas with a workbook
19:43:21 <Gonozal_VIII_> hmm can't do that, it's eTutor homework..
19:46:12 <LordAzamath> ok..now Igotta go offline
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19:51:38 <BiA|pavel-css> if i want somehow make programable signals, i need sprites for it right? :X
19:52:18 <Gonozal_VIII_> programmable switches :D
19:52:29 <Belugas> or maybe just draw some pretty basic sprites and ask someone to do it
19:52:48 <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII_: what do you eman?
19:53:26 <Gonozal_VIII_> the remove the pathfinding from the trains and let the switches direct them
19:54:57 <FranZ> Hi,first i wanted to say that you guys are doing a great job and i'm very thankful for that. I wanted to download the new version of openttd (0.6beta2) but the open source web site doesn't allow me to download it (every single mirror link is broken). the i tried the direct download link but the server sent me the beta 1 version (but with the right name: "openttd-0.6.0-beta2-win32.exe"). i hope you gonna fix this as soon as possible :)
20:01:21 <BiA|pavel-css> hmm, i just tryed and dont work :)
20:04:47 <Belugas> FranZ, you could grab a nightly. It is pretty much the same thing. Plus, there is at least one bug fix on nightly. I do't know why Download fails on sourceforge though. I'm downloading right now, and it's extremely slow
20:13:01 <BiA|pavel-css> heh, i am looking at yapf .... i think i wont write taht patch :X
20:19:01 <Belugas> FranZ, i've jsust downloaded thewin32 zip file, and it contains a valid beta2 executable
20:19:08 <Svish> why do I get a green light down by the train depot?
20:19:19 <BiA|pavel-css> Svish: wrong use
20:19:37 <BiA|pavel-css> switch that "yeallow"
20:19:38 <Svish> BiA|pavel-css: yeah, i kind of get that, but what did I do wrong? :p
20:19:41 <Gonozal_VIII_> explain what exactly?
20:19:53 <hylje> Svish: wrong type of exit signal
20:19:56 <hylje> Svish: you want combo signals
20:20:09 <glx> Svish: because you invert combo and entry
20:20:33 <Svish> I have used entry as combo and combo as entry
20:20:56 <Svish> not that weird that my systems doesn't work that well at the moment, lol
20:21:09 <Svish> bit too long ago since I played this I think :p
20:21:24 <Svish> well, thank you alot! ill go do some ctrl-clicking on signals.. :p
20:22:28 <Svish> btw, is it possible to run openttd without the original graphic files from the original game? is there a basic replacement package or something? couldn't find anything... but im pretty sure it should be somewhere?
20:22:43 <Svish> i have the original, but for a friend of mine
20:23:11 <Belugas> Svish: nope. you still require original files
20:23:20 <hylje> i believe one can replace all the gfx with newgrf, but there's still the need for orig
20:24:14 <Gonozal_VIII_> change one of them
20:24:26 <SmatZ> bug bug bug bug bug omg
20:24:38 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII_: I am making fun a bit :)
20:26:06 <glx> SmatZ: I can't remember how to reproduce that
20:26:07 <Gonozal_VIII_> buuuut that still isn't entirely right... you removed the train, so they shouldn't be red anymore
20:26:32 <BiA|pavel-css> ban, he made a bug! :D
20:26:57 <hylje> glx: put a loop of combo signals in, put a train inside, remove train
20:27:07 <SmatZ> glx: they are combo-signals... driv... hah hylje said that
20:27:13 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII_: true :-)
20:27:14 <Gonozal_VIII_> if someone builds a weird presignal system it could lock red...
20:28:41 <Bjarni> let me put it this way: the first time is the hardest
20:28:55 <Gonozal_VIII_> a roundabout junction where you forget to add an exit at the exit...
20:28:56 <Bjarni> but it's never routine to pass a red signal
20:29:12 <Bjarni> even with a permission from the station master
20:29:42 <Sacro> Bjarni: tis when i'm driving
20:35:32 <Gonozal_VIII_> hehe i built some crossings that deadlock before a train can even enter them
20:35:51 <Bjarni> and you are proud of that?
20:36:09 <Gonozal_VIII_> yes because i intended to do that :D
20:37:14 <Bjarni> "I am realy sorry but I am struggling to understand our grammer." <--- hahaha
20:38:16 <Gonozal_VIII_> Location: Eastleigh England^^
20:38:26 <LeviathNL> What do you guys use on linux to solve conflicts on svn?
20:38:44 <Bjarni> also nice spelling of grammar
20:38:53 <Bjarni> LeviathNL: text editor
20:39:14 <glx> LeviathNL: search for <<<<
20:39:21 <Andzy> not really :P im just a random guy that goes in tt-forums alot lol
20:39:28 <Andzy> never really registered :(
20:39:57 <Andzy> for the past 3 years i still visit the forums lol.
20:40:09 <Belugas> well.. welcome in here
20:40:30 <Gonozal_VIII_> how come that the only new posts in the ttdpatch section are in the graphics part? don't they have bugs or suggestions or something?
20:40:55 <Bjarni> Andzy: well... you have been spotted.... save some energy and decloak now ;)
20:41:26 <DaleStan> We do have bugs and suggestions. But they get fixed, dismissed as not-a-bug, implemented, or dismissed as impossible, not discussed.
20:41:31 <Andzy> Just visiting the chatroom, never talked to a Dev of OpenTTD o.o
20:41:50 <Belugas> devs are normal guys ;)
20:41:57 <Andzy> I remembered when there was no openttd and only ttdpatch lol.
20:41:57 <Belugas> welll... most of them ;)
20:42:27 <Andzy> Just wondering if the rumors are true.. that TTDpatch is dying ?
20:42:32 * SmatZ remembers when there was no TTDPatch
20:42:43 <Bjarni> <Belugas> devs are normal guys ;) <-- at least that is what we try to trick people to believe
20:42:46 <Andzy> yes =p i played TT with no deluxe lol
20:43:09 <Andzy> so devs aren't normal people ? O_o
20:43:25 <Belugas> TTDPatch has this tendancy to be full of surprises. Right now, i would say it is moving slowly, but i would not be surprised if it will speed up sometime soon
20:43:28 <Andzy> i bet the devs have above 120 iq average =P
20:43:48 <Bjarni> who is dragging us down?
20:43:48 <Sacro> my IQ is too high to be a dev :D
20:44:00 <Andzy> im having a dilemma to be honest
20:44:02 <Maarten> [12:41:34] [@Belugas]: devs are normal guys ;) <--- I will need some proof of this statement. :P
20:44:05 <Andzy> i love both ttdpatch and openttd
20:44:10 <Andzy> can i merge both ? lol :p
20:44:21 <DaleStan> I expect Patch will "speed up", at least somewhat, when patchman comes back from Real Life.
20:44:22 <Belugas> now, that is insanity to the outmost!
20:44:27 <Gonozal_VIII_> pff they wouldn't let anyone with an iq below 150 anywhere near the code
20:44:57 <Andzy> 110-120 average iq for devs :p
20:44:58 <Bjarni> and not without proper training either
20:45:04 <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII_: don't quite get that high
20:45:43 <Maarten> I was 131 and 132 the last 2 times I did an IQ test...
20:45:47 <BiA|pavel-css> where in OTTD is GetMyIQ(); ? :P
20:45:51 <Belugas> somehow, i do not feel like a dev lol!
20:45:51 <Bjarni> even though I don't trust that number even if it is true I can say: Sacro: I'm smarter than you :P
20:45:56 <Gonozal_VIII_> sacro, we were talking about iq, not height in cm
20:46:07 <Sacro> Bjarni: what is your IQ?
20:46:13 <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII_: i'm not that short :p
20:46:19 <Belugas> or weight in kilos lol!
20:47:10 * SmatZ afraids of sexually oriented messages soone
20:47:14 <BiA|pavel-css> <Maarten> I was 131 and 132 the last 2 times I did an IQ test... --- where you did iq test? :P
20:47:16 <Andzy> in wikipedia Albert was rumored to have 160-180 iq o.o
20:47:29 <Bjarni> <Sacro> Bjarni: what is your IQ? <--- I'm not telling you. It will make you feel sad. However I can tell you that I have outsmarted an IQ test, complained about it and they had to say that I was correct
20:47:41 <Bjarni> the test wasn't good enough
20:47:59 <Sacro> glx: just what do you think is 144mm long?
20:48:00 <Maarten> BiA|pavel-css: A written test I did about 5 years ago, and about 2 years ago I did one online, but I can't remember where.
20:48:11 <SmatZ> Bjarni: yeah, once I did a test - and there was a note "If you think you are correct, you can count your answer too" ... then I had like 165
20:48:41 <Andzy> haha.. wow.. a little girl sent Albert Einstein a mail it says " 2026I 2019m writing to you because my cousin and I had a bet. He said you had 175 in entiledgence. And I said you had 190. Which one of us is right. 2026 My inteligence is 145."
20:49:26 <Bjarni> also it was funny at the conscription office. All males has to go there when they turn 18 and they test all sorts of stuff including IQ... They wanted me to go to uni when they looked at my IQ test but they didn't tell me what it said
20:49:39 <svippy> newindustries sure is making map creation slow.
20:50:09 <Gonozal_VIII_> but you do know that einstein is dead?
20:50:14 <glx> svippy: of course, many industries are very difficult to place with TGP
20:50:41 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII_: he still lives... in our hearst
20:50:54 <Bjarni> SmatZ: not to mention minds
20:50:58 <Gonozal_VIII_> but you can't mail to your heart^^
20:51:13 <BiA|pavel-css> Andzy: what was your question? :)
20:52:12 <Andzy> =P can i mix both ttdpatchy and openttd ?
20:52:37 <Andzy> so i have to choose ? *Cries* but but i love both.
20:52:40 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
20:52:45 <SmatZ> Andzy: you can load some older TTDPatch savegames in OTTD
20:52:48 <Gonozal_VIII_> well you could mix them...
20:53:10 * BiA|pavel-css never played TTDpatch only TTD :)
20:53:30 <Andzy> How do you exactly mix them if its possible
20:53:37 *** HerzogDeXtE1 has joined #openttd
20:53:58 <Gonozal_VIII_> read the code, write a new version with all the features you want :-)
20:53:58 <Bjarni> ttdpatch is designed to modify specific parts of the binary so it works only on binaries where it knows where everything is stored. OpenTTD will in theory store stuff at different locations each time the source is changed so there would be need for patch porting for every single revision of OpenTTD
20:54:00 <Prof_Frink> Andzy: Play one, save, close, play t'other.
20:54:37 <Andzy> if only i was such a genious i would probably do that lol
20:54:42 <Bjarni> <Andzy> How do you exactly mix them if its possible <-- read the code in ttdpatch and write the same code in a way that works with openttd
20:54:55 <Prof_Frink> Or vice versa of course.
20:55:15 <Bjarni> <Andzy> if only i was such a genious <-- considering what you just asked I presume that you can't personally mix them
20:55:25 <DaleStan> <Bjarni> ttdpatch ... works only on binaries where it knows where everything is stored. <-- Not so. The nightlies have no information on where the data to be patched is located.
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20:55:51 <Bjarni> DaleStan: you have to figure it out first hence the need for porting
20:55:58 <DaleStan> It does have to be able find everything that's supposed to be patched, but thats a different issue.
20:55:58 <Bjarni> and it's just not worth it
20:56:05 <Andzy> hmmm i guess i have to do a "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" between the two.
20:56:38 <Andzy> there are things i like about ttdpatch, and same thing with openttd
20:56:45 <BiA|pavel-css> then use ottd ^^
20:56:52 <Andzy> and stuff aren't in ttdpatch are in ottd vice versa o.o
20:56:53 <Gonozal_VIII_> then choose what fits your gameplay best
20:56:58 <Bjarni> DaleStan: we can agree that if we take one nightly build we will be able to find the stuff we want to patch and write a patch for it... but it's simply not worth the time, right?
20:57:10 <Prof_Frink> Andzy: Play ttdpatch, then pester the openttd devs to add PBS and custombridgeheads
20:57:28 <Andzy> why don't you do it =x i don't want devs to hate me
20:57:37 <Prof_Frink> Oi! openttd devs! Add PBS and custombridgeheads!
20:57:38 <Gonozal_VIII_> custombridgeheads is nice... and enhancedtunnels...
20:57:38 <Bjarni> don't increase the workload
20:57:52 <Prof_Frink> Yes! And enhancedtunnels!
20:58:03 <Andzy> Maybe someday both will merge XD just a dream thou
20:58:05 <Bjarni> why not bridges over bridges while we are at it?
20:58:19 <BiA|pavel-css> enhancedtunles?
20:58:30 <Andzy> i tried locomotion.. :( didnt like it.
20:58:35 <BiA|pavel-css> what about tunelts?
20:58:37 <Bjarni> and controllable UFOs so you chase them to locations where only other companies are and stuff
20:58:42 <Prof_Frink> Andzy: They won't merge, but eventually openttd will get features equivalent to all of ttdpatch's
20:59:00 <BiA|pavel-css> or we can hope so :)
20:59:01 <Prof_Frink> *Won't* it, Bjarni
20:59:10 <Andzy> won't the devs from ttdpatch get mad if ottd does that ? =o
20:59:40 <Andzy> *confuse* i bet some dev would say "your stealing my code, etc" or whatever lol
20:59:46 <Gonozal_VIII_> the ufos kind of suck... most of the time they land on the same place
20:59:49 <Prof_Frink> Nah, they'll just invent more stuff for openttd to shamelessly copy under the terms of the GPL
20:59:51 <DaleStan> Yeah, Right, Prof_Frink. The ability to play something that's indistinguishable from TTD will never be allowed by Open.
21:00:03 <Bjarni> <Andzy> won't the devs from ttdpatch get mad if ottd does that ? =o <-- time will tell... in a way you can say that it's appreciating their work to include the ideas
21:00:06 <Belugas> Andzy, it is technically impossible to merge both engines.
21:00:19 <Bjarni> <Andzy> "thats my idea" o_O ? <-- that already happened :(
21:00:46 <DaleStan> And then there are the actual features that are "too complicated for the average user" or something.
21:00:51 <Prof_Frink> (un)fortunately, the GPL explicitly states that this is allowed
21:00:55 <Bjarni> <Andzy> Ottd is C++ ? <-- it's C that's converted to C++ so it's C++ with a C structure
21:01:02 <Prof_Frink> DaleStan: You're thinking of gnome-openttd
21:01:26 <Andzy> I just read this thread in ttd forums.. about a person leaving ttdpatch, it seems like its fallin apart somehow =x
21:01:40 <Belugas> [16:02] <Prof_Frink> Andzy: Play ttdpatch, then pester the openttd devs to add PBS and custombridgeheads <--- or even better, write it yourself!
21:01:44 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: You mean: It's asm rewritten in C that's converted...
21:01:57 <Andzy> =P all of you should have waited for each other and made one patch OpenTTDpatch or something >_<
21:02:11 <Andzy> having 2 different teams competing and fighting doesn't help
21:02:22 <Bjarni> Andzy: and we should have started 10 years earlier too, right?
21:02:24 <Andzy> but its just my opinion :p sorry lol
21:02:25 <Gonozal_VIII_> they're not fighting
21:02:38 <Prof_Frink> Andzy: Without ttdpatch it's unlikely that there would have been enough interest in TTD for ludde to make the initial conversion.
21:02:44 <Gonozal_VIII_> yes start 10 years earlier, now!
21:02:48 <Bjarni> <Andzy> having 2 different teams competing and fighting doesn't help <--- I don't think it's a real fight
21:02:49 <glx> Andzy: TTDPatch is a patch, OpenTTD is a clone, so they are totally different
21:02:53 <Belugas> i never felt like competing with ttdpatch. this is silly
21:02:59 <Andzy> okay well internet fight is not really a fight XD
21:03:07 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII_: Do I look like The Doctor?
21:03:18 <glx> and newgrf specs are a nice thing
21:03:30 <Belugas> do not mix some users with devs...
21:03:32 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: well... at least your hairline does
21:03:43 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Which Doctor?
21:04:09 <Andzy> well if ttdpatch and openttd came together would it actually work ?
21:04:30 <Andzy> too many conflicting ideas ?
21:04:42 <Belugas> no... too many differnces in the way things are done
21:04:57 <DaleStan> Too many conflicting languages. TTDPatch is written in x86 assembly. OpenTTD has to run on non-x86 processors.
21:05:03 <Belugas> ttdp = ASM openttd = C/C++.
21:05:07 <Andzy> :( Person A: "do this" Person B: "No do this"
21:05:18 <Andzy> I know they are writted in different codes
21:05:22 <Belugas> plus, ttdp requires original exec. openttd only requires original data
21:05:25 <Andzy> but Openttd can probably copy ttdpatch ones
21:05:37 <Andzy> thou the devs from ttdp would be pissed o.O
21:05:55 <Belugas> for your info, Dalestan is a dev of TTDP.
21:06:02 <Bjarni> you can't copy x86 ASM code and paste it into some CPU independent code
21:06:20 <Gonozal_VIII_> they can't copy it, they have to find a different way to do the same things
21:06:44 <Andzy> nuuu.. im talking about a feature in TTDpatch, which OPENTTD can easily implement it, but the Devs from TTDpatch might not like it.
21:07:10 <Belugas> look at newindustries and newhouses in openttd. where do you think it came?
21:07:44 <Belugas> and while i was implementing newindustries, i had an awfull lot of help fomr csaboak himself, the guy who created it in ttdp
21:07:57 <Bjarni> <Andzy> thou the devs from ttdp would be pissed o.O <--- why? I didn't flame the patch when they added autoreplace
21:08:10 <Andzy> Bjarni: you know how people are.
21:08:37 <Belugas> Andzy, you obviously do not know the devs of either team
21:08:38 <Bjarni> Belugas: pay more attention to who says what instead of only what they say... you mistyped his name :P
21:09:09 <Andzy> i don't know any devs from either side x_x
21:09:33 <Bjarni> Andzy: that's the usual thing... people don't know shit and then they presume stuff
21:09:37 <Belugas> well... let say, Andzy, that you have talked to 3 from openttd and 1 from ttdp
21:10:05 <Bjarni> and all of a sudden everybody knows that the US government is hiding aliens in Area 51
21:10:22 <Andzy> awhile ago someone here even said "different idea's" caused problems with the 2 sides. =\
21:10:23 <Bjarni> and it's the truth because everybody knows it
21:10:48 <glx> the alien is Zoidberg, and the ship is bender ;)
21:11:24 <Bjarni> glx: no the ship is Ship, but Ship has a crush on Bender
21:12:22 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: No, the ship is Bender
21:12:26 <Belugas> Bender-Fender said the truck driver
21:12:37 <Prof_Frink> And Fry's off becoming his own grandfather.
21:12:50 <glx> don't put metal in microwaves
21:13:01 <Belugas> Bending-Fender said Jimmy hendrix
21:13:12 <Bjarni> Ship is the ship... Bender is the communist detector
21:14:10 <Gonozal_VIII_> they should show more futurama here :-(
21:14:24 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII_: A week.
21:14:38 <Prof_Frink> That's how long it took me to watch Futurama.
21:15:11 <Prof_Frink> *Never* type "kaffeine *" in your futurama directory
21:15:13 <Bjarni> see the future in a week
21:15:36 <Bjarni> sounds like a vacation advertise
21:17:07 <Andzy> Anyhoo, i picked Openttd, thanks for answering my questions guys. sorry for the troubles.
21:18:00 <svippy> Why does the AI not suffer from the same penalties as I?
21:18:01 <Gonozal_VIII_> soooo you picked openttd... now you have to decide between stable, beta and nightlies^^
21:18:31 <Bjarni> for the first time in ages the TV tuner has 100% in both signal quality and signal strength
21:18:42 <Bjarni> it's not human friendly weather though
21:19:24 <Bjarni> and now it dropped a bit
21:19:37 <svippy> Things like these only last for bits of the time.
21:19:47 <Bjarni> luckily DVB signals don't have to be working at 100% to give a perfect picture
21:19:49 *** LordAzamath has joined #openttd
21:20:38 <Bjarni> in fact the breakdown signal quality is around 40% so it's still great
21:20:46 <Andzy> (r11609) is the latest ?
21:22:04 <Prof_Frink> 11615 is latest rev
21:22:28 <Gonozal_VIII_> 6 revs in 2h? nice^^
21:22:39 <Bjarni> but nowhere near a record
21:22:47 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII_: 3 of them were reverting the other 3
21:23:00 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII_: rather 0 revs in 2h
21:23:10 <jetthe> Sorry if this has been asked before, but is the osx-binaries for 0.6.0-beta2 waiting to be mirrored on SF? Can't seem to find them anywhere.
21:23:30 <glx> jetthe: wait until sf does its job
21:23:38 <Rubidium> jetthe: they have been placed on SF about 24 hours ago, so it seems like SF it not working as it should
21:23:39 <Bjarni> is SF still stupid when it comes to the OSX binary?
21:23:41 <Andzy> been trying to find the stolen tree's thing in forums can't find it lol
21:23:46 <Rubidium> you could try other mirrors
21:23:56 <jetthe> Rubidium: Tried them all. No luck I'm afraid.
21:25:48 <Belugas> jetthe, i was able to download the win32 zip beta2 today, on one of the mirrors. it worked, although painfully slow. so i guess it's a matter of time
21:26:08 <Andzy> i downloaded the beta 2 one of the forums
21:26:13 <Andzy> someone posted a direct link
21:26:19 *** Gonozal_VIII_ is now known as Gonozal_VIII
21:26:43 <Bjarni> Belugas: it looks like none of the mirrors has the OSX binary
21:26:50 <Bjarni> I checked a few hours ago
21:28:17 <Belugas> so it is a work in progress on their behalf...
21:28:35 <Belugas> welll.. nightlies wil; be the solutin fornow ^_^
21:30:10 <Bjarni> but it's stupid that they are so slow on their mirrors
21:32:19 <Belugas> a rather dry one, in fact ^_^
21:32:46 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII has a point
21:32:50 <Bjarni> why didn't we make torrents?
21:33:15 <Belugas> truebrain used to. i think
21:33:26 <Bjarni> torrents would be better than the chaos we have now
21:33:38 <Belugas> maybe because it is a new way of doing stuff
21:34:06 <Prof_Frink> Make a torrent, label it "goat porn" and watch the downloads skyrocket
21:34:33 <Bjarni> speaking of personal experience?
21:34:54 <Prof_Frink> Everyone loves the goat.
21:35:32 <Bjarni> there is a bash quote like that. Some guy said that his backup worked like that and then another guy said that explained the excel file he got named as the Olsen twins naked
21:35:36 <Gonozal_VIII> is there a .ex domain?
21:35:51 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: not in my list
21:36:28 <Bjarni> well.. the guy who tried to download that got some remarks because at that time they weren't 18 yet
21:37:05 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, second stage done
21:37:58 <LeviathNL> did anything change in the first stage?
21:39:00 <LeviathNL> did they graphically?
21:40:46 * SmatZ googled for Olsen Twins pictures... do not like them
21:42:14 <Bjarni> I mean why did you google for them?
21:42:23 <Bjarni> I just said that there is an age issue
21:43:08 <Bjarni> well... I think they are like 19 now
21:43:59 <Bjarni> but for some reason people talked about their pictures for years
21:44:47 <Bjarni> they look like that now?
21:45:02 <SmatZ> I don't know, Google knows
21:47:19 <Bjarni> sure looks like them compared to their official site
21:47:44 <Bjarni> but the official site is decent so it could be a mix of two pictures
21:47:59 <Bjarni> I don't think they would make pictures like that
21:48:04 <Bjarni> they don't need the money
21:48:53 <Gonozal_VIII> you think paris hilton needs the money?
21:49:23 <Bjarni> Paris Hilton is a freak
21:50:52 <Bjarni> I never figured out why people freaked out about them
21:51:13 <Gonozal_VIII> because twins are hot^^
21:51:31 <SmatZ> Bjarni: maybe .. too old? :-P
21:51:35 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm hot twins are hot...
21:51:41 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> because twins are hot^^ <-- get drunk... then all women are prettier and they are all twins
21:52:18 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: But twins become quads
21:52:33 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe but i drink as much as you do so... no
21:53:44 <Bjarni> basically I don't get the thing about more or less hot famous people
21:54:10 <Bjarni> if there is one thing you can be sure of then it's that you will never get a Hollywood star in real life
21:54:19 <Bjarni> there are millions of people trying to beat you to it
21:54:20 <Gonozal_VIII> they are like other hot people.. but you see them more often and they are rich^^
21:55:07 <Bjarni> one guy was arrested for breaking in at Madonna's and putting on her night dress... now how sick is that?
21:55:20 <Bjarni> not to mention he knew that she was out of town
21:55:37 <Bjarni> so the chance of seeing her in real life....
21:56:04 <Gonozal_VIII> he didn't want to see her, he wanted to put on her night dress :-)
21:56:09 <SmatZ> some people just need their "celebrities"
21:56:26 <SmatZ> like many people just love our president... (and I am sorry for him)
21:56:35 <Bjarni> well... the guards were still there. The question is how he even got into the house
21:57:06 <Bjarni> people love your president?
21:57:25 <Bjarni> here people hate him... at least according to the medias
21:57:42 <SmatZ> many people love him... many hate him
21:57:52 <Bjarni> but then again the medias can write about how the medias favour the red politicians
21:57:54 <SmatZ> he is a kind of celebrity, too :-x
21:58:24 <Gonozal_VIII> but i'm sure he's not hot...
21:58:25 <Bjarni> and we actually have a government that has financially sane politics
22:04:40 <jjr> How good is the AI in latest OTTD beta? While ago, in 1.5.2 i think, there was only new AI for road transport...
22:06:04 <Bjarni> nobody worked on the AI
22:06:05 <jjr> And is anyone working on it?
22:06:08 <Wolf01> if in 1.5.2 there will be only a new AI... ;)
22:06:33 <Bjarni> will we ever reach 1.5.2?
22:06:37 <Bjarni> I mean in our lifetime
22:07:07 <Wolf01> yes why not? in 2 years we passed from 0.3 to 0.6
22:07:22 <jjr> i meant 0.5.3, of course :D
22:07:22 <Bjarni> more than 2 years passed
22:07:26 <Rubidium> I think it has to do with the lifetime of the TTD creators ;
22:07:45 <Rubidium> and something with 70 years
22:07:49 <Bjarni> the users are so demanding that we will not get old
22:07:56 <Wolf01> we might release ottd with only brickland scenario ;)
22:08:26 <Rubidium> Wolf01: would still be 'tainted'
22:09:29 <jjr> Devs don't have enough expertise for the AI, huh?
22:10:08 <Digitalfox> jjr you must be talking about branch NoAI
22:10:11 <Wolf01> devs don't have enough will for the ai :P
22:10:28 <Digitalfox> and that jjr is not in beta
22:11:10 <jjr> DigitalFox I do'nt know, I'm jus an ordinary player...
22:11:46 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, what are you planning on drawing next?
22:11:49 <Wolf01> LeviathNL, now i'm starting to work on rough land
22:12:22 <Wolf01> i was writing the answer at the same time you asked :P
22:12:32 <jjr> Wolf01 another attemt at Brickland? ;)
22:12:51 <Digitalfox> jjr, i'll explain.. The new AI some people have talked about, with a new road AI ( the others are still in deveopment ), is a branch of the main openttd code, called NoAI so if you download 0.5.3 or 0.6.0beta 1or 2 it doesn't have A New AI like you're thinking, the AI is still the same of 0.5.3
22:13:12 <Rubidium> Digitalfox: NewAI != any AIs in NoAI
22:13:28 <Rubidium> NewAI is in 0.5.x (and 0.4.x for that matter)
22:13:33 <Rubidium> it will also be in 0.6.x
22:13:42 <Digitalfox> yeah Rubidium i miss explanied
22:14:06 <Rubidium> NoAI will, on the other hand, not be in 0.6.x
22:14:18 <Digitalfox> but you know what i was trying to explain ;)
22:14:40 <Rubidium> I do, but others probably don't
22:14:53 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, stage 4 finished
22:15:08 <Rubidium> especially when you say that NewAI is not in 0.5.x, when it actually is
22:15:33 <Digitalfox> well Rubidium i was refering the new AI has NoAI code..
22:16:45 <Rubidium> ... but NoAI doesn't contain a new AI
22:17:17 <jjr> DigitalFox I don't undertand... What was added to the new AI in 0.5.3?
22:17:34 <Digitalfox> So let me explain better to jjr. The new AI some people have talked about, with a new road AI ( the others are still in deveopment ), is a branch of the main openttd code, called NoAI so if you download 0.5.3 or 0.6.0 beta 1or 2 it doesn't have the new code from this branch, you will be using the same AI of 0.5.3..
22:18:18 <Digitalfox> Maybe not i give up.... :\
22:18:35 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, shall i post a tar when finished?
22:18:43 <Digitalfox> Rubidium to rescue ;)
22:19:05 <Rubidium> you created the mess ;)
22:19:21 <Bjarni> jjr: what Digitalfox is trying to say is that some people tried to make a better AI but it's not working and not included in any releases and work on it has stalled
22:19:30 <Bjarni> jjr: did you get it this time?
22:19:36 <Digitalfox> you have more expertize in explaining stuuf from openttd to users :)
22:20:10 <jjr> I see... so I am still left with the original crappy AI and not experienced enough to play MP :( Pity...
22:20:55 <jjr> Bjarni, I got it prom the repost of DF, thanks for effort..
22:20:57 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to be very experienced to play multiplayer, you'll learn fast there
22:20:59 <Rubidium> why aren't you experienced enough to play MP?
22:21:45 <jjr> Maybe I am, but still lerning the basics...
22:21:52 <Bjarni> jjr: start by playing a game in single player... if you aren't bankrupt after 20 years then you can play in MP
22:22:34 <Bjarni> it's not like everybody are experts
22:22:39 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to play against the others, you can cooperate with them and they will give you tipps
22:23:20 <jjr> Gonozal_VIII sound interesting
22:23:40 * LeviathNL should be done now :)
22:25:26 <jjr> What are MP games like? are complex rail networks common or is it possile to go with simpler ones?
22:25:53 <Gonozal_VIII> you can spectate some to see what they do
22:26:01 <jjr> I'm jus an advanced beginner, you know...
22:26:10 <Prof_Frink> But, for gods sake, don't go to openttdcoop.
22:26:29 <jjr> Gonozal you mean watch others play?
22:26:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11616 /trunk/src/core/ (bitmath_func.cpp bitmath_func.hpp): -Fix [FS#1526]: sometimes large values could go off the chart.
22:27:51 <jjr> Are there recordings? I'm quite busy most of time.
22:28:16 <Gonozal_VIII> no... but there are servers running all the time
22:28:40 <jjr> OK, that should be fine...
22:28:43 <Gonozal_VIII> just join one as a spectator and look what they built there
22:29:48 <Rubidium> not of building a real network
22:30:00 <Prof_Frink> jjr: But as I said, openttdcoop is a horrific example of play
22:31:01 <jjr> sory for tha typos, English is not my mother tongue... plus it's 11:30 PM in my timezone :)
22:31:41 <jjr> openttdcoop games is cooperative?
22:31:57 <Digitalfox> The video looks very nice in full screen :)
22:32:18 <Gonozal_VIII> but i don't like that station...
22:33:11 <Gonozal_VIII> takes up way too much space for the entry/exit part
22:33:44 <Osai> Gonozal_VIII: its not bigger compared to RoRo stations
22:33:59 <Rubidium> the idea is that the extra space makes the station more efficient than the straight-forward version
22:35:10 <Osai> Rubidium: do you have some time for a short talk?
22:35:12 <Gonozal_VIII> but there are long two way tracks... they are blocked while a train exits
22:35:18 <jjr> I see... jus from what version are hose briges possible?
22:35:36 <Gonozal_VIII> nightlies or beta
22:35:43 <Rubidium> Osai: depends on what you call short
22:36:28 <Rubidium> ah well, go ahead... if I don't react anymore, then I'm sleeping ;)
22:37:03 <jjr> ok... I thought so. in 0.5 it was impossible to build over slanted track and sigs
22:37:26 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, that's a very big improvement
22:38:43 <Osai> Gonozal_VIII: size always changes with the throughput of a station
22:38:54 <Osai> you don't need a setup like this for 5 trains
22:39:40 <Gonozal_VIII> an exiting train blocks the entry for a long time so it will be worse with more trains :-)
22:41:20 <jjr> Whew, in that case, I need serious self-control over holidays... You know, 5 years aho I spent even 10 hrs straight whe i had time
22:41:32 <Gonozal_VIII> simplest and fastest way for a terminus is 2 platforms, an one way entry signal, 2 2way exits at the platforms and a one way normal signal for the outbound...
22:43:05 <jjr> Gonozal that's the most basic one, isn't it?
22:43:36 <Gonozal_VIII> and the fastest in my experience because it has the shortest two way tracks
22:44:26 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: only in your 'system' one train can enter/leave the two tracks, in the one of ottdcoop one can enter and another one can leave
22:44:36 <Rubidium> which means the throughput has been doubled
22:44:55 <jjr> Sure, but those are suitable for low traffic, no?
22:45:24 <Gonozal_VIII> it also has double the platforms :-) just use two of the basics
22:45:54 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: with two of the basics you still have problems with crossing trains
22:46:33 <jjr> Alhough, i don' know whatreally high traafic looks like :)
22:46:51 <Rubidium> and in this case one train can have entered 90%, another 10%, another one can have left for 10% and the last one can be left for 90%
22:47:14 <Rubidium> so you still have double the throughput as two simple terminii
22:48:39 <Rubidium> effectively this 4 platform station is as effective (for entering/leaving) as a 8 platform station made of simple terminii blocks
22:48:54 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, did you finish the paved roads?
22:49:21 <Wolf01> no, i did only that preview
22:49:33 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmmm that has to be tested
22:49:35 <Osai> Gonozol, the longer leaving track is 3 tiles instead of 1, 2 tiles longer than for a normal RoRo
22:50:45 * LeviathNL wants permission to peek around in Wolf01s /OTTD_related/lego/ directory :)
22:51:07 <Rubidium> permission granted ;)
22:51:34 <Wolf01> there are only some screenshots, the brickland files and my old patches
22:51:38 <Rubidium> but you'll get a file not found ;)
22:53:29 <jjr> Osai OK, when I get time I'll look. got lot of work and some assignmets to finish :)
22:54:34 <jjr> sure, but to get a picture...
22:57:10 <jjr> Oh, my OTTD crashed when loading the save :( any ideas why?
22:57:51 <SmatZ> jjr: do you have required newgrfs ?
22:57:55 <Rubidium> you're using a 0.5.x OTTD and tried to load a savegame that is made with a much later version of OpenTTD
23:00:27 <jjr> that newgrfs are likely... that 0.6 beta doesn't have it bundled.
23:01:14 <Wolf01> wooot what a surprise... a moment before the forum was grassy, a moment after the forum is snowy
23:03:20 <jjr> how do I find out wha newgrfs I need?
23:04:24 <SmatZ> jjr: but the game will say you which newgrf it needs... I don't know how it works in Windows though...
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23:08:00 <Gonozal_VIII> can't convert railtype here, owned by little nandon
23:08:06 <Gonozal_VIII> that's a town...
23:08:27 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: well, that needs better error messages
23:08:35 <SmatZ> but it means there is nothing to convert
23:09:04 <Gonozal_VIII> yes had the same type selected
23:09:13 <Gonozal_VIII> but owned by makes no sense
23:09:20 <SmatZ> I was considering improving that, but haven't done it yet
23:10:58 <SmatZ> mmmmm why member function pointers cannot be retyped to void*
23:11:13 <SmatZ> that C++ makes me more and more sad
23:11:16 <SmatZ> good night Wolfensteijn
23:11:29 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: I have not seen Wolfensteijn.
23:13:06 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm the trains don't choose free platforms now with that setup
23:14:06 <Gonozal_VIII> ah... false alarm had the orders wrong
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23:19:56 <Gonozal_VIII> huge profit with a large ammount of test trains that drive around almost empty between two small towns...
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