IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-11-20
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00:00:04 <Bjarni> fjb: have a glass of water and figure it out
00:00:20 <Digitalfox> one friend of mine this weekend was caught with 3.40g/l on blood, he had to go to court and now will be without driver licence, for 6 months
00:00:24 <fjb> Bjarni: Oh, that is really fun.
00:00:50 <fjb> Digitalfox: Now I see the fun.
00:01:02 <glx> Digitalfox: don't drive if you drink
00:01:29 <Bjarni> I like the Australian limit better (0,02‰)
00:01:31 <Digitalfox> Bjarni: Well the limit here is 0.5g/l
00:01:36 <SmatZ> we got 0,000 no matter if g/l, %, % or ppm :-p
00:02:15 <Bjarni> SmatZ: how can you tell the difference between 0,005 and 0,000 ppm?
00:02:17 <ln-> Bjarni: what about on rail?
00:02:19 <Digitalfox> The limit here changed because portuguese wines companys made a big fuss over the old limit of 0.2
00:02:36 <glx> 0 may be wrong as some people do "create" alcohol by themself
00:02:38 <SmatZ> Bjarni: if police can prove it, then you lost your driving licence
00:03:08 <Digitalfox> glx: I don't drive when i drink, i have a girlfriend for that moment
00:03:08 <Bjarni> the Australian limit is due to how well they can measure it and be sure enough of the measurement that it can stand as evidence in a trial
00:03:12 <SmatZ> they scare people for no reason
00:04:08 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> yes, our laws are bad <-- you talk about an awesome law that I would like to have here and then you end the explanation with a statement like this..... odd
00:05:45 <SmatZ> Bjarni: it is bad... as glx said, people have some alcohol in blood naturally
00:06:11 <SmatZ> people with diabetes can have 0,3 promile...
00:06:40 <SmatZ> and anyway, sometimes I wake up after a party, maybe I have 0,1 promile in blood... hmm
00:07:05 <ln-> SmatZ: 0,3 > 0,0, so they should be punished, too.
00:07:15 <SmatZ> ln-: yes, that's the law
00:07:31 <Bjarni> you can actually drink so much to a party that you can't drive the next day even after sleeping 8 hours
00:07:32 <Gonozal_VIII> everybody has >0
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00:08:47 <SmatZ> actually, if police measures some alcohol in your breath, you go for a blood test... then at the blood test, they tolerate ~ 0,2 promile, as it is usual to have this level in blood
00:08:53 <glx> that's surprising Sacro ;)
00:08:57 <SmatZ> but it is breaking the law
00:08:59 <Bjarni> Sacro: any freaky thing that you haven't done?
00:09:32 <Sacro> i've never made love to a danish man before
00:09:57 <Bjarni> are you coming on to me?
00:10:03 <glx> how can we interpret that?
00:10:19 <Gonozal_VIII> [01:08:47] SmatZ: actually, if police measures some alcohol in your breath, you go for a blood test... then at the blood test, they tolerate ~ 0,2 promile, as it is usual to have this level in blood <-- about the same here but legal limit is 0,5... if you don't let them do the blood test they write 1,6 no matter what
00:10:53 <SmatZ> Gonozal_VIII: sometimes 1,6 is lower than the actual value ^_^
00:11:12 <Gonozal_VIII> yes but punishment doesn't change from 1,6 up
00:11:13 <Sacro> Bjarni: that all depends
00:11:19 <glx> it's still more than 3 times the limit
00:11:57 <Bjarni> I would write 4,0 and then they have to prove me wrong :P
00:12:17 <Bjarni> still lower than some Swede the police picked up in Denmark though
00:12:25 <Bjarni> naturally he was sleeping
00:12:27 <SmatZ> but all the laws are useless... from police statistics, alcohol has very little impact on number of accidents caused (percent of detected alcohol by police control vs. alcohol as cause of an accident)
00:12:29 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't matter if they write 1,6 or 4,0 for the law
00:12:50 * Sacro rings the bell 1, 3-1, and sets the line to clear
00:13:10 <Bjarni> if my phone rings in a moment then I will perm ban Sacro
00:13:39 <Gonozal_VIII> [01:12:49] * Sacro rings the bell 1, 3-1, and sets the line to clear ??
00:14:10 <glx> is the line clear for real?
00:15:14 <ln-> Bjarni: do you have a secret phone number or something, because i was unable to find it.
00:15:42 <Bjarni> I don't want people to call me for OTTD tech support
00:17:04 <Gonozal_VIII> and 555 numbers only exist in films
00:18:48 <Bjarni> I would fall over before reaching 2‰
00:19:19 <ln-> i wasn't able to find Tron's phone number either.
00:19:34 <Bjarni> you wanted to call Tron???
00:19:39 <SmatZ> funny things is, that after these new much more strict laws, there are more accidents and more dead people than before it
00:19:59 <ln-> Bjarni: i wanted the rest of you to call him.
00:20:00 <Bjarni> just shoot all law breakers
00:20:04 <Bjarni> then the problems will die
00:20:27 <Gonozal_VIII> problem is that strict laws don't help when they are not enforced
00:20:30 <SmatZ> so I hope I will never live in such democratic country as Denmark :)
00:21:07 <SmatZ> people break the law more at places when they suppose police cannot see them
00:21:28 <SmatZ> because they are stressed and angry from the new law
00:21:39 <Gonozal_VIII> spam the roads with cameras then
00:21:57 <SmatZ> and hire millions of policemen to watch all of them :-p
00:22:09 <Bjarni> the politicians agreed that the population don't want that
00:22:20 <SmatZ> I would never live in a country with too many cameras
00:22:27 <Bjarni> they never asked the population though
00:22:46 <Bjarni> one aimed at all your windows?
00:23:08 <SmatZ> no... but when I go through the city, there is no moment some camera do not see me
00:23:30 <Bjarni> you have a criminal mind
00:23:37 <Bjarni> they are there for your protection
00:23:50 <Bjarni> imagine that somebody steals your wallet
00:24:05 <SmatZ> then he steals my wallet...
00:24:08 <Bjarni> the cameras can detect that and give a face of the criminal
00:24:20 <Bjarni> and you have a fair chance of getting it back
00:24:26 <SmatZ> there were no cameras few years ago and I have never been robbed
00:24:44 <Bjarni> I have been robbed in the angle that the camera didn't pick up
00:24:49 <Bjarni> somehow I think they knew
00:25:36 <Bjarni> first they wanted all my money. I told them that I didn't have any on me (the truth)
00:25:45 <Bjarni> then they.... wanted my cloth o_O
00:26:02 <Bjarni> until one of them said that he didn't think that they could sell it
00:26:15 <SmatZ> and finally, they were Czech, weren't they? :)
00:26:27 <Bjarni> I think they came from the Middle East
00:26:34 <Bjarni> at least they looked like it
00:26:42 <Bjarni> but I didn't feel like asking
00:27:12 <Gonozal_VIII> so they didn't steal anything?
00:27:31 <Bjarni> I had the best defence ever: I didn't have anything worth stealing
00:27:41 <SmatZ> they could kill you anyway
00:27:53 <Bjarni> I only had my old worn cloth and nothing else
00:28:22 <SmatZ> I think robbers should be punished more
00:28:27 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> they could kill you anyway <-- now that would be something... being killed at 11 O'clock (during the day) at the train station
00:28:33 <SmatZ> there is nothing like 'unintentional robbery'
00:29:00 <Gonozal_VIII> before you can punish them you have to catch them
00:29:25 <Bjarni> just go to the station and pick up the gang
00:29:36 <Bjarni> they are known criminals
00:29:56 <Gonozal_VIII> why are they still there then?
00:29:58 <SmatZ> "they are in a gang, so they are bad"
00:30:17 <Bjarni> the newspapers calls them gangs... I just quoted them
00:30:20 <Gonozal_VIII> they were trying to rob him, so they are bad
00:30:36 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> they were trying to rob him, so they are bad <-- that's the basic idea
00:33:54 <Bjarni> <ln-> [...] without trying to interpret the finnish texts <-- don't ask for the impossible
00:34:08 <glx> ln-: isn't he the killer ?
00:34:58 <SmatZ> ln-: what's so interesting about him?
00:35:22 <Bjarni> he is named Mustafa and has Finnish relatives?
00:35:22 <ln-> SmatZ: the fact that he looks like an average, non-dangerous guy.
00:35:37 <ln-> he's turkish citizen, but that's not relevant.
00:35:42 <Bjarni> he rides a moped without a helmet... he looks dangerous
00:36:26 <Gonozal_VIII> sooooo... normal guy... what's so special about him?
00:36:40 <Bjarni> he is on the internet?
00:36:48 <ln-> well, the newspaper article between the pics says "almost five years of prison to a man who raped a 10-year-old"
00:37:24 <SmatZ> hmm he seems to like girls
00:37:29 <Gonozal_VIII> only five years O_o
00:37:38 <ln-> additionally, attempted to rape one adult and forced another one to sexual act, the article also says.
00:37:54 <SmatZ> hmm yes, rape is very wrong, too... but sometimes, it is very hard to prove :-x
00:38:17 <ln-> if he's a first-timer and behaves good, he'll be out after something like 2.5 years... :/
00:38:18 <Gonozal_VIII> rapists should get that tatooed on their foreheads if they ever leave prison
00:38:20 <Bjarni> it shouldn't be hard to prove when the victim is only 10
00:38:56 <SmatZ> Bjarni: true... if you have DNA tests
00:39:22 <Bjarni> there is a case in Denmark about a pedophile being beaten up in prison.... for some reason they claim that to be illegal
00:39:38 <SmatZ> bad things about laws : they are unifying people too much, they are not dynamic
00:40:07 <Bjarni> but it's not dishonouring to do....
00:40:32 <Gonozal_VIII> and for honorable actions
00:40:53 <SmatZ> Bjarni what kind of pedophile s/he was? like had sex with some 14-years old, very sex experienced girl?
00:41:25 <Bjarni> but somebody in prison didn't like whatever he did
00:41:44 <SmatZ> that's a problem - the girl can be 14 or 4, you are still pedophile
00:42:13 <SmatZ> or ... speed limits are still the same, no matter how free/jammed streets are
00:42:26 <ln-> someone interested in 14-year-old girls isn't a pedophile really. there may be another term for that, and it is still illegal to implement that interest.
00:42:33 <Bjarni> we have speed signs that changed due to traffic
00:42:44 <SmatZ> going 80 on highway in night just because sometimes 80 is safer (sometimes jams) is ... bad
00:43:22 <SmatZ> Bjarni: we have, but they are changing just 50/70 :-) it has mostly 70 if streets are not really jammed...
00:43:49 <Bjarni> ours can show more or less everything
00:44:25 <SmatZ> Bjarni: then you are more advanced... we have cameras on highways, but signs are solid usually
00:44:42 <Bjarni> also there is a law that states that you are never allowed to driver faster than the conditions allow... a blocked road means that the conditions gives a max of 0
00:45:12 <Bjarni> so if somebody hits another car in theory they were speeding
00:45:45 <SmatZ> yeah, when you break your car because there was hole in the road, then it is your fault, because you didn't drive attentively enough... no matter it was in night without any signs
00:46:17 <glx> if there's a hole in the road then someone didn't do his job
00:46:32 <SmatZ> someone didn't have money to fix it...
00:46:42 <Bjarni> that law applies to curved roads, fog, snow, darkness, rain... basically everything that could result the need for lower speed
00:47:03 <SmatZ> Bjarni: we have this law too
00:47:10 <ln-> Bjarni: what's your alcohol limit on rail?
00:47:15 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> yeah, when you break your car because there was hole in the road <-- this is poorly maintained roads and then the people who should maintain it has to pay because it's due to their missing work
00:47:23 <SmatZ> also, it is the most often reason for an accident :)
00:47:50 <SmatZ> Bjarni: yes, but the law says different
00:47:57 <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: what's your alcohol limit on rail? <--- they changed it not long ago to state "the same as when driving a class B (normal) car"
00:48:37 <SmatZ> isn't driving a train much more responsible than driving a car, so shouldn't it have '0' limit?
00:48:57 <Bjarni> they changed it from "you are not allowed to be so drunk that people can clearly see that you are drunk"
00:49:14 <Bjarni> they changed it after a train nearly ended up in the ferry landing... without a ferry in it
00:49:35 <Gonozal_VIII> yay train ferry want that ingame
00:50:06 <Bjarni> when the train was driving too fast passed the platform (it should stop), it got two emergency brakes at the same time
00:50:11 <glx> <Gonozal_VIII> yay train ferry want that ingame <-- code it then ;)
00:50:19 <Bjarni> car crew didn't like the situation
00:50:30 <Gonozal_VIII> can't code good enough for that
00:50:50 <ln-> last time i suggested ferries that could carry trains for OTTD, some australian told me that there are no such ferries in the world.
00:51:24 <Gonozal_VIII> well... not for austrailian 1000000000 km long trains^^
00:51:35 <Bjarni> that very same harbour... at one time a guy drove onto the ramp when there was no ferry and due the weight of his train (two locomotives and no cars), the cables broke and the train ended up in the water
00:51:50 <Bjarni> that was two freight engines with V20 engines
00:52:38 <glx> not worse than the A340-600 last week
00:52:46 <Bjarni> actually at that time the railroad had this policy "we don't make accidents so we will not pay for insurance"
00:53:11 <ln-> wtf happened to the airbus?
00:53:16 <SmatZ> I wonder what happened to his family
00:53:19 <Bjarni> they had that policy for more than 100 years but not anymore
00:54:38 <Gonozal_VIII> "we don't make accidents so we will not pay for insurance" <-- DB has that too
00:55:10 <Bjarni> I think it's cheaper that way
00:56:34 <Bjarni> small railroads needs to be insured. It's the law... you can't drive a train unless you can be sure to pay a certain amount in case of an accident and small railroads has to get help to ensure that
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10:54:03 <dihedral> doCommand packets are pretty small right?
10:54:25 <dihedral> would it be possible to add a byte at the end of that packet (where normal servers do not expect to read anything, and dont read it)
10:54:39 <dihedral> talking communication from client to server
10:55:12 <dihedral> so for example, the copy and paste patch could set a flag if the doCommand comes from a paste or not
10:55:16 <blathijs> I think the server would instantly drop you because you're packet is malformed
10:55:32 <dihedral> why would it be 'malformed' ?
10:55:42 <blathijs> Because it's lenght does not match its content
10:55:43 <dihedral> if it is 'after' the last expected byte
10:56:14 <dihedral> as far as i know the server only checks if the length is the same as the size of the content
10:56:21 <dihedral> and then does it's reading
10:56:32 <dihedral> it does not check if a packet type has a certain length
10:57:22 <blathijs> I would expect you to be wrong, but I have hardly ever looked at the network code :-)
10:57:30 <blathijs> But do go on about what you want to do :-)
10:57:38 <dihedral> Rubidium: my network guru - can you give a hand?
10:58:01 <dihedral> i want to ask Frostregen to set a flag at the end of a doCommand packet
10:58:11 <dihedral> if the doCommand was constructed by the copy and paste patch
10:58:27 <dihedral> and the flag is not set, if the command was constructed by using the tools oneself
10:58:41 <dihedral> that way - a server could check if someone is pasting or building by hand
10:59:24 <dihedral> yes, but that does not stop people :-P
10:59:27 <Frostregen> any of those changes can easily be removed
10:59:38 <Frostregen> it is ottd not cs ;)
11:00:14 <dihedral> but if you set a flag and we (ottd) read that flag
11:00:25 <dihedral> and if 'normal' servers would not pay attention to that flag
11:00:47 <Frostregen> it would be more easy to change the revision string
11:00:48 <dihedral> as for example, we could allow c/p then on the sandbox, disallow on ps games
11:00:50 <Frostregen> which ammler suggested
11:00:59 <dihedral> the revision string is too simple
11:01:02 <dihedral> and affects all games
11:01:11 <dihedral> i.e. i dont mind people useing c/p on my own servers
11:01:30 <Frostregen> currently you could do the following:
11:01:33 <dihedral> and i dont think it is a ceat
11:01:48 <Frostregen> set paste-speed to slowest value
11:01:53 <Frostregen> thus making c&p useless
11:02:19 <dihedral> but the paste speed on the server has nothing to do with the speed a client sends it's doCommands
11:02:35 <dihedral> is it a server setting?
11:03:09 <Frostregen> (but can be circumvented too, but not as easy as revision string)
11:03:09 <dihedral> can that 'paste speed' be 0? i.e. dont paste? or disable pasting
11:03:23 <dihedral> yes - of course it can be
11:03:42 <Frostregen> currently it can only be set to very very slow
11:03:44 <dihedral> but it's a step towards a goal
11:03:48 <Gonozal_VIII> wouldn't say it's useless when it's very slow, you can paste a station entry or something and while it builds build the connection to the other station
11:04:13 <dihedral> Frostregen: explain the 'very very slow' setting please
11:04:32 <Frostregen> i can't remember the max setting
11:04:48 <Frostregen> something like one command every 20-60 ticks
11:06:12 <Frostregen> 200 is the maximum value
11:06:18 <Frostregen> 1 command every 200 ticks
11:06:45 <Gonozal_VIII> ok, that's very slow^^
11:08:20 <dihedral> can you include 0 or -1 for no pasting?
11:08:30 <dihedral> as copying is ok i think
11:09:45 <dihedral> as i dont think one can abort an ongoing paste, right?
11:10:51 <Frostregen> should be easily possible. will be included in next release
11:10:58 <dihedral> well - then i guess a 0 or -1 value for paste speed is easier
11:11:09 <Gonozal_VIII> 0 = no delay, 254 = crawling slow, 255 = off :-)
11:11:44 <Frostregen> is there a comparable patch setting?
11:12:04 <Frostregen> which displays numbers, and some text fpr a specific value?
11:12:12 <dihedral> dont think there is :-( afaik
11:12:46 <Frostregen> then 255 will be off
11:13:18 <Frostregen> hehe, my simple track switcher ist still building =)
11:14:39 <dihedral> Frostregen: could you make a server side patch, that will only have the setting and nothing else?
11:14:48 <Frostregen> yup, thought about it
11:15:03 <dihedral> thank you very much - i really appreciate it :-)
11:15:17 <dihedral> uh - and dont mention it in the change log :-P
11:15:29 <Frostregen> i'll just leave the note
11:15:47 <dihedral> word will spread fast enough as it is :-P
11:15:48 <Gonozal_VIII> i think i still have some old layouts from miniin somewhere on my hd, are they compatible?
11:16:08 <Frostregen> the format did not change since beginning
11:17:15 <Frostregen> 2 different signals on one tile
11:17:26 <Frostregen> but nobody noticed so far ;)
11:18:38 <dihedral> and thanks again :-)
11:21:51 <Gonozal_VIII> 2 different signals on one tile <-- what how where since when :O didn't notice that
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11:23:33 <Gonozal_VIII> i was so used to that restriction that i didn't even try
11:24:12 <dihedral> that sounds like 2 diagonal tracks on one tile with 2 different signals then
11:24:28 <dihedral> where only one signal type was possible before...
11:24:38 <dihedral> heh - never noticed either
11:24:50 <dihedral> never even read a log message about that on svn
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11:33:35 <Gonozal_VIII> i know why i didn't notice... i got used to building all signals on diagonal tracks only on the right or lower halftiles
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11:40:28 <dihedral> i will be able to have a 10.3.9 os x system tomorrow or the day after to test building
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11:49:03 <Gonozal_VIII> "So I right clicked the executable..." <-- how is it possible to right click with only one mouse button?
12:00:38 <Gonozal_VIII> digging out an old thread to write about borg cubes that carry trains... there are some strange people on the forum^^
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12:13:17 <dihedral> Gonozal_VIII: 1. macs can use any usb mouse
12:13:25 <dihedral> 2. macs can do command+click
12:14:14 <Gonozal_VIII> not nice to use both hands for an action that would require a single finger
12:14:36 <dihedral> you say that to women too?
12:14:54 <dihedral> sorry - slightly below belt line there
12:16:37 <dihedral> Gonozal_VIII: you mostly dont need a rightclick anyway
12:17:12 <dihedral> and a mighty mouse has a few more buttons to press
12:17:44 <Gonozal_VIII> but i see lots of macs with a mouse that has nothing but a single large button
12:17:53 <Gonozal_VIII> i wouldn't want that
12:18:49 <Gonozal_VIII> no scrollwheel, no rightclick no open-link-in-tab-mousewheel-click...
12:19:32 <dihedral> you scroll using 2 fingers on the mousepad
12:20:01 <dihedral> on laptops the button is also close enough to the command key so you only need one hand
12:22:07 <Gonozal_VIII> my touchpad has right and left mousebutton and scroll buttons for x and y axis...
12:22:34 <dihedral> using 2 fingers on the touch pad i can scroll smovly in any direction i want
12:23:14 <Gonozal_VIII> how does that work with 2 fingers?
12:24:33 <Gonozal_VIII> if i use 2 fingers there, the cursor jumps around
12:25:30 <dihedral> and if it does not work on yours you have a pretty old mac
12:25:40 <dihedral> if you have a mac at all
12:26:01 <Gonozal_VIII> no not a mac but i can't imagine how you would use 2 fingers
12:26:21 <dihedral> what is there not to understand?
12:26:51 <Gonozal_VIII> you place 2 fingers on the touchpad... ok... how does that lead to scrolling?
12:27:17 <Gonozal_VIII> yes but how do you move your fingers?
12:27:27 <dihedral> both in the same direction
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12:57:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11483 /trunk/src/ (map.cpp pathfind.cpp): -Codechange: Replace codeparts with functions that do the same to increase readability
13:00:36 <skidd13> dihedral: wrong game ;)
13:02:45 <dihedral> skidd13: do you play ET?
13:04:54 <dihedral> you know you like shooting :-D
13:05:23 <skidd13> I played MOHAA a while ago and sk-gaming offered me a place in their team... You'd lose :P
13:08:08 <dihedral> that's beside the point
13:08:28 <dihedral> and skidd13 if i lose i learn
13:08:37 <dihedral> so i actually win again :-D
13:09:27 <skidd13> No further discussion! Or you'll learn what the kick command is able to do ;) :P
13:10:14 <skidd13> This room is about OpenTTD and not ET!
13:10:43 <dihedral> kicks dont scare me - TB used to kick me occansionally :-P
13:11:16 <skidd13> Hmm what about the ban command :P
13:11:27 <dihedral> and my aim was not to move to ET, my aim is more to have a game of something else with guys from ottd :-)
13:11:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o skidd13
13:11:44 <dihedral> skidd13: a ban is up to you - still would not scare me
13:12:09 <skidd13> Hmm IMO an ignore would be enough for me :P
13:12:29 <dihedral> sometimes 'power' does strange things to people does it not?
13:13:14 * dihedral ignores skidd13 ignoring him
13:13:15 <skidd13> come on the dark side young fellow
13:15:23 <dihedral> you getting annoyed with me?
13:16:19 <skidd13> Do you have any real friends or just some on IRC... Find a girlfriend is my advice (this time for free)
13:16:39 * dihedral pats skidd13 on the head
13:21:18 <dihedral> i am at work - and i think it would be too obviouse if i sat in some cornor with my friends :-P
13:36:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11484 /trunk/src/ (45 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Remove the doubled function SetBitT and rename the remaining to fit with the naming style
13:37:41 <dihedral> skidd13: what was the renameing you renamed?
13:38:27 <skidd13> SETBIT -> SetBit and SetBitT -> SetBit then remove SetBitT :D
13:46:15 <dihedral> what does the T at the end stand for?
13:48:35 * dihedral pats himself on the shoulder
13:50:04 <TheMask96> it is actually something, to spap ;)
14:01:05 <dihedral> skidd13: are you then just applying the codeing guideline or ore you up to something else too?
14:02:11 <skidd13> dihedral: please be patient and stop asking me all the questions you'll see!
14:02:59 <dihedral> 5 commits and already stressed :-(
14:03:38 <hylje> well maybe thats because you keep poking him
14:03:55 * dihedral starts pocking hylje instead
14:04:19 <dihedral> i actually have not pocked him an awful lot
14:11:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11485 /trunk/src/ (15 files): -Codechange: Remove the doubled function ToggleBitT and rename the remaining to fit with the naming style
14:26:02 * dihedral assumes skidd13 has some log message template :-P
14:42:22 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 9 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 51 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <peter1138> _minime_, looks good to me
14:47:18 <TheMask96> 9 weeks?... thats a long time for a holiday...
14:49:34 <dihedral> i was thinking the same thing
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15:07:49 <fjb> Oh, smebody is alive and awake. :-)
15:12:32 <fjb> Too bad that you can not build a station on a bridge... :-(
15:16:33 <Sacro> we need a new map array
15:16:46 <fjb> Is there a way to measure the distance between two tiles?
15:17:07 <Rubidium> fjb: yes, somewhere under configure patches
15:17:29 <fjb> I thought somebody is working on a new map array. I saw a picture with trains circling in a tunnel with signals.
15:28:50 <Belugas> not the new map array. just a new feature.
15:29:31 <Belugas> new map array means a new way of organizing the map, and not just another byte/whatever the size
15:29:53 <hylje> well you gotta push that tunnel somewhere
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15:34:40 <fjb> hylje: I thought my computer could do the math for me... :-)
15:35:59 <fjb> You need some kind of "stacking" when you want to build tunnels with signals and switches.
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15:38:28 <Belugas> that and a good gui change ^_^
15:41:53 <fjb> Hm, you need a gui where you can select a laer. How does locomotion do it?
15:42:33 <Belugas> i don't want to know :)
15:42:51 <Belugas> i would rather see original new approaches
15:43:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
15:44:13 <Bjarni> anybody in here who knows SQL?
15:44:55 <Bjarni> SELECT DISTINCT * FROM pc i, pc j WHERE i.RAM = j.RAM AND i.speed = j.speed AND i.model != j.model; <-- how do I make it show i,j, but not j,i?
15:44:58 <fjb> Don't know if good enough...
15:45:04 <Bjarni> it shows the same pair twice :(
15:46:39 <fjb> Hm, moment, I'm not ggod enough to geve a short answer. Maybe you should do e select distinct on the result.
15:47:35 <fjb> It's not possible with all databases. Maybe a virtual or temporarly table could do it.
15:47:37 <dihedral> SELECT i.* FROM pc i INNER JOIN pc j ON i.ram = j.ram AND i.speed = j.speed WHERE i.model != j.model
15:48:36 <Bjarni> dihedral: that didn't work
15:48:49 <dihedral> then just use i.* instead of * in your select
15:48:49 <Belugas> damnd.... dihedral beat me
15:48:55 <SmatZ> hi dihedral , evening Bjarni :)
15:49:04 <Rubidium> Bjarni: don't those items have a unique ID or so?
15:49:25 <Rubidium> then just do i.ID < j.ID and you should only have one instance of each pair
15:49:29 <Bjarni> model is the unique ID
15:50:50 <Bjarni> the answer is always more simple than you expect when you get stuck :s
15:51:11 <Rubidium> that reminds me of physics
15:51:53 * Rubidium always used way too many functions and such to compute something (the answer was usually right though)
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15:53:04 <Bjarni> Rubidium: a ball is at location 0 at time 0 and it's at location 1 meter at time 1s. How would you calculate the speed? :)
15:53:57 * Bjarni looks forward to seeing differential equations
15:54:30 <SmatZ> Bjarni: ^_^ in 1D space?
15:54:44 <Bjarni> yeah... it's a 1D question
15:55:21 <hylje> we have no idea whether it is accelerating or at static speed
15:55:22 <Rubidium> it could've been stationary for a while and then start moving, or it could be decelerating
15:55:42 <Bjarni> you are already making this too complex :P
15:56:02 <Bjarni> if you just wrote a number then I would have said stuff like that
15:56:35 <SmatZ> if it has constant acceleration and speed(t=0) = 0, then you can use the well-known s=a*t^2/2
15:57:07 <Bjarni> I like this one. "A rock is thrown into the air (completely vertically) and at time 0 it has a speed of 30 m/s. What is the speed at time 3s and how high will it go?"
15:57:07 <Rubidium> Bjarni: the answer is either 42 or e
15:57:16 <Bjarni> we had that when I was 16 or something
15:57:16 <fjb> I would say the speed is 1m/s.
15:57:36 <Bjarni> more than half the class wanted the rock to increase speed and then they couldn't figure out how high it would go before returning
15:58:23 <SmatZ> Bjarni: about the rock... acceleration is constant, g=-9,81 m/s.s ... so after 3 sec, is has 0,57m/s speed
15:59:11 <Bjarni> I didn't actually calculate the numbers I just made up
15:59:21 <Bjarni> I could if I bothered :P
15:59:29 <SmatZ> ah... and how high... s=a*t^2/2 + v0 * t :) = -9,81*4,5+90 ~ 45m
16:04:01 <Bjarni> in this example there is no loss of energy so 0,5*m*v^2=m*g*h and you can divide with m on both sides (assuming the mass of the rock is different from 0)
16:04:11 <Bjarni> and then it's a fairly simple equation
16:04:46 <Bjarni> both solutions should produce the same result
16:05:26 <SmatZ> Bjarni: ah... you mean the maximum height it gets
16:13:15 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> Bjarni: ah... you mean the maximum height it gets <-- yeah... you could also say the location where speed is 0
16:13:26 <Bjarni> well, I went back to SQL
16:14:05 <dihedral> when it it's the ground again
16:14:43 <Bjarni> luckily this example is so simple that it will not hit the ground
16:15:02 <Bjarni> not very realistic but simple to calculate
16:23:14 <Bjarni> now I have two tables with just a single object (an int) and they are called the same. How do I merge them into a table containing all of them?
16:24:34 <SpComb> what was this thing about paused openttd servers not using up CPU?
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16:27:24 <Bjarni> I don't see how CREATE VIEW can solve this task :(
16:28:12 <Sacro> well it depends if you want to copy them into a new table
16:30:11 <Bjarni> now the really good question is... what do I really want? :)
16:34:32 <Sacro> i use joins and i use views
16:34:37 <Sacro> depending on the circumstance
16:36:22 <Bjarni> basically I want a table containing both of them but with only one int, not two as normal join would give
16:37:17 <Sacro> how do you want to combine them? ocncatenate?
16:38:05 <Bjarni> basically I just want all tuples in the same table without modifying them
16:39:04 <Bjarni> this is not theory... HOW?
16:39:14 <dihedral> do they not have id's
16:40:01 <Bjarni> they have unique ints and they are used as IDs (I think)
16:40:27 <dihedral> well - have a table with 2 fields
16:51:19 <Bjarni> you guys are not really helpful right now
16:51:26 <Bjarni> nor is the book or the faq :(
16:54:10 <Bjarni> ahh now I figured out how
16:54:30 <Bjarni> INSERT INTO a (SELECT * FROM b);
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16:54:37 <Bjarni> that inserts everything from b into a
16:59:23 <Bjarni> that looks kind of like what I figured out on my own
16:59:41 <Bjarni> except the docs has more advanced usage for this feature
17:00:00 * Wezz6400 just found out 0.6.0-beta1 is out
17:00:01 <dihedral> that page will have more stuff of what you _could_ figure out on your own
17:00:18 <dihedral> but you _could_ also just read up on it :-P
17:00:40 <Bjarni> actually I already read stuff on that site but I didn't find this page :/
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17:05:08 <yorick> any known bugs about random users that get scrolled to a depot when someone sells a train at that depot?
17:05:17 <yorick> can't find it on flyspray
17:07:01 <yorick> yesterday on #openttdcoop
17:07:27 <yorick> someone sold an electric train, and 2 or 3 users got scrolled to it
17:08:11 <yorick> the users were mostly the same
17:30:32 * Bjarni celebrates that SQL is now working
17:32:23 * SpComb wonders if he should stop for a minute at some point and actually write out some kind of design for MyOTTD
17:32:45 <Bjarni> design is really important
17:33:08 <Bjarni> if you lack it, you can get a job at MS
17:33:20 <Bjarni> if you have it, then your software works
17:33:23 <SpComb> I've got some ideas in my head, but perhaps I should plan stuff out in more detail before I start hacking away at the OpenTTD source code
17:34:00 <SpComb> the current next-big-step is to kill the console/udp-based interaction with OpenTTD, and replace it with an IPC protocol + my own control code in OpenTTD
17:34:16 <SpComb> front page's a bit slow because caching is for weak people
17:34:20 <Brianetta> The carbon-metabolizing physical presence that currently houses my conscious and those physical manefestations of my comrades all possess as our common residential abode the interior of a mid-visible spectrum double hulled buoyancy controlled ship of war
17:35:15 <Bjarni> none of the servers has any clients :P
17:35:21 <SpComb> what a silly way to word "We all live in a yellow submarine"
17:35:46 <SpComb> Bjarni: there's one or two servers with clients on them every now and then, and quite a few of them have companies, some of which may even be turning a profit
17:36:03 <SpComb> but indeed, it's alpha, and I don't really intend for people to be using it that much
17:36:11 <SpComb> esp. as with how little time I've had recently to work on it
17:37:44 <SpComb> I've also started a project with a couple friends of mine to co-lo our own hardware out and then use it as a shared server, MyOTTD would be one of the things I'd run on it
17:38:04 <SpComb> and one of the reasons that I started said shared-server-project
17:40:05 <SpComb> giving up on the console-based approach would mean that MyOTTD would go even further from a general purpose web-based OpenTTD controller to a specialized myottd.net thing, but hmm
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17:51:05 <SpComb> I probably will, and not just for MyOTTD
17:51:14 <SpComb> but that's not really what I'm bothered about at the moment
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18:52:08 <chu_> can me someone explain, what that means:
18:52:10 <chu_> Industry *i = new (index) Industry();
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18:53:31 <BigBB> what exactly? the "new" ?
18:55:18 <chu_> BigBB: the entire expression
18:55:51 <chu_> i have learned, that "new ClassName()" creates a new instance of "ClassName" on the heap
18:56:11 <chu_> but what does the "(index)" does in that construct?
18:56:24 *** Diabolic1Angel is now known as Diabolic-Angel
18:57:03 <chu_> (btw. it's from industry_cmd.cpp:2341)
18:57:10 <BigBB> new/delete you allocate a new variable/delete a variable; Industry *i pointer 'i' from type Industry and Industry() the value
18:59:50 <chu_> BigBB: ok. that would be my understanding too, if there was no (index)
19:03:20 <LeviathNL> I think it makes an a new object of class Industry and stores the pointer to it in *i
19:05:01 <LeviathNL> and index is the typedef of a pointer
19:06:21 <chu_> but index is defined as "int index" shortly before that line
19:06:38 <chu_> so index is a variable and no type
19:07:21 <chu_> i have never seen a construct like that before, and i have seen a lot code recently at work *G*
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19:19:14 <Rubidium> chu_: it's an overload for the 'new' parameter.
19:19:28 <Rubidium> the 'normal' new parameter just allocates a piece of memory
19:19:40 <Rubidium> the overloaded new operator gets some memory from a memory pool
19:20:18 <Rubidium> and (suprisingly) it gets the memory of the indexth entry of the memorypool
19:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> i would search for a "operatornew" function
19:29:24 <fjb> Did anybody break the road vehicle refitting between r 11445 and r11474? All cargos are transportated in a box in r11474, e.g. oel. In r11445 it is transported in a tanker, like it should be.
19:29:49 <fjb> I happens with Long Vehicles 4.
19:43:00 <fjb> The bug still exists in r11485.
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19:46:08 <fjb> Can anybody confirm that bug?
19:50:53 <Rubidium> fjb: I think George can
19:54:44 <fjb> It's the same grf. It is working in r11445 and not working in r11474.
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19:55:21 <KaareMai> Is there any way to remove grf's from a scenario??
19:56:20 <Rubidium> load the scenario editor -> (some of the drop down menus at the top) -> newgrf settings
19:56:43 <Rubidium> *but* it might be that the scenario does not work correctly once you remove them
19:56:57 <KaareMai> It's just some train sets and such
19:58:22 <fjb> Rubidium: Ok, sory, I missunderstood you. Any idea where the problem is?
20:00:04 <Rubidium> yes, but I've got no idea how to solve it; not my alley
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20:43:44 <glx> fjb: I know why it happens, but I don't know how to fix it yet (btw it's caused by 11450)
20:44:57 <fjb> Why was it too early in the first place?
20:46:42 <Vini> uhm. got a question. i want to login and take a lok at the oublic server but cant find the password. on the web it says that it should be on the public server page. but i cant find it for some reason
20:46:56 <Vini> oh dear god. sorry for all of the typos...
20:48:32 <fjb> Which server are you talking about?
20:49:01 <fjb> There are many public servers.
20:49:24 <Vini> "#openttdcoop - The Public Server (openttdcoop.ppcis.org) (0.6.0-beta1)"
20:50:06 <Vini> yea. for some reason i'm slow today...
20:50:49 <Bjarni> we didn't notice any change in your behaviour :P
20:51:25 <Vini> thxnks for all your help :)
20:51:31 <Bjarni> in fact... who are you? :)
20:51:58 <Vini> Me? Just some n00b who likes ttd
20:52:29 <Vini> used to play it way back. and now liking openttd very much
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20:53:05 <glx> <fjb> Why was it too early in the first place? <-- because it was done during initialisation and action7 are not handled then, causing use of wrong translation table for given climate
20:53:15 <Belugas> if i'm not mistaken, going on #openttdcoop, and typing !password will give you what you need, Vini
20:53:36 <Vini> thanks. already found that.
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21:19:35 <chu_> i just type a reply to the enhancement-request you closed recently
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22:25:35 <Sacro> Ammler: how... schizophrenic
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22:26:08 <Ammler> yeah; i needed someone to say something to me
22:27:16 <Gonozal_VIII> ammler: something
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23:21:12 <Peter1986> will the generic tramset be included in the game by basic?
23:21:40 <Peter1986> cause server operators always say they don't use, cause many newbies can't install grfs...
23:22:24 <Peter1986> and i can't just find a server of 0.6.0, or nightlies, or even ChrisIN where they use a tramset, but isn't coded by password...
23:22:31 <Ammler> Peter1986: I don't think so, you need to look for servers wich can install grfs
23:22:59 <Peter1986> no no... i mean, i like to play on a server where are included some tram grfs...
23:23:28 <Peter1986> which one? (without password)
23:23:40 <Peter1986> does it have trams?
23:23:50 <dihedral> that is a surprise to see you :-)
23:24:25 <Peter1986> i'm playing recently on servers sometimes...
23:24:34 <Peter1986> but i always miss the trams :\
23:24:48 <Peter1986> you are German, right?
23:24:51 <dihedral> Peter1986: i am about to upgrade to 0.6.0-beta1
23:25:08 <Peter1986> what version do you run? ah... 0.6.0beta1
23:25:11 <dihedral> and i am planing on useing grf's to make use of new features
23:25:20 <Peter1986> will you include generic trams? :)
23:25:27 <dihedral> 'about to upgrade' is the trick on that one
23:25:40 <dihedral> i would love to include one tramset or another
23:25:44 <Peter1986> cause generic trams were developed to be 'generic' :)
23:26:05 <dihedral> what landscape do you like playing
23:26:08 <Peter1986> it's purpose is to be the basic tramset
23:26:10 <Ammler> dihedral: its in the pack
23:27:11 <dihedral> you like competative of peacefully quite games?
23:27:33 <Peter1986> if i were the 'big Boss' i will include the generic trams and add it to newgrfs by default, so if you download it, you already have trams (of course if the author of trams agree)
23:27:57 <Peter1986> when the Miniin existed, i like to cooperate with the othr companies :)
23:28:05 <Peter1986> 6 company using same mainline
23:28:14 <dihedral> then you want wwottdgd
23:28:25 <Peter1986> i don't know that...
23:28:38 <dihedral> World Wide OpenTTD Game Day
23:28:46 <dihedral> search wiki.openttd.org
23:29:00 <Peter1986> OTTD wiki write about it?
23:29:07 <Gonozal_VIII> or you just look for some nice people and host yourself
23:29:26 <dihedral> Gonozal_VIII: an instance of himself ;-D
23:30:27 <Peter1986> lol i have a p4 laptop...
23:30:38 <Peter1986> and no money to rent a server...
23:30:48 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't have to be a server
23:30:54 <Peter1986> and i'm not in campus... i live at home :]
23:30:59 <Ammler> Peter1986: and check #openttdcoop
23:31:12 <Peter1986> i'm not good enough to do that
23:31:19 <Gonozal_VIII> i play a lot with some of my friends and i host with my amd sempron laptop
23:31:47 <Peter1986> i'm Hungarian... from East Europe, so i like rusty old crappy things, old 40-50 years old vehicles, never replace it, and 'realistic' things
23:31:56 <Ammler> yeah, the server isn't the problem , its more the network speed
23:31:56 <Peter1986> i hate destroying big mountains
23:32:46 <Peter1986> so i never level too bigammount of terrian...
23:33:01 <Peter1986> i instead climb up, and climb down, or use small tunnels etc.
23:33:32 <dihedral> feel welcome on any openttd.dihedral.de / Fair Play <something> :-)
23:33:37 <Gonozal_VIII> you should try the serbian rail set :-)
23:34:10 <dihedral> and if you meed one who's nick starts with S and ends with irkoZ and he should bother you - just jot me a note :-P
23:34:36 <Peter1986> sadly, Hungarian trains aren't made as grf yet...
23:35:02 <Peter1986> why? SirkoZ is not bothering... he's okay person :)
23:35:21 <Peter1986> lol i can't draw bmps that good...
23:35:27 <dihedral> thanks - i was trying to keep google away
23:36:01 <dihedral> just he has his moments ;-)
23:36:12 <Peter1986> so, nowdays, you're using 0.6.0beta1 right?
23:36:14 <Phazorx> take 3: night dihedral
23:36:28 <dihedral> no - i am about to upgrade
23:36:37 <Phazorx> i can see what you meant by gradual now
23:37:05 <Peter1986> aha... but you had nightly server before, right? or paralell project, nightly servers and 0.6.0beta1 servers?
23:37:17 <dihedral> i prefer checking things out myself before 'going live' with upgrades
23:37:46 <dihedral> Fair Play 1-3 and Nightly
23:37:57 <dihedral> anyhow - i need to get to bed
23:38:59 <Peter1986> by the way, i find a server where are newgrfs
23:39:06 <Peter1986> it is using older nightly build
23:39:21 <Peter1986> but i need an early version of modern trams
23:39:45 <Peter1986> cause this r3 is not compatible with server's version... :(
23:41:41 <Ammler> Peter1986: most time, there is a homepage for "good" servers
23:41:54 <Ammler> and you find there links to the grf etc.
23:42:13 <Peter1986> grfcrawler drop the link
23:42:32 <Peter1986> but the modern tramset thread has only 1 file which is named r3
23:42:36 <Ammler> no, I mean a homepage from the server self like dihedrals
23:42:51 <Peter1986> and the server is Yet Another OpenTTD Server
23:44:19 <Peter1986> anyway, i saw in his site, that the nightly server use grfs...
23:44:42 <Peter1986> so i upgrade my nightly to r11444
23:45:10 <fjb> Modern tram set is not that usefull yet. It is still in an early stage.
23:45:33 <Peter1986> yeah but 1 server needs an early variant of it
23:45:46 <Peter1986> and that's the only missing one from the list :(
23:46:00 <Peter1986> of that yetanotgerottdserver thing...
23:46:35 <Peter1986> and i'm angry that one single b*stard grf prevent me to play trams at OTTD online...
23:49:02 <fjb> My server is not fast enough to run OpenTTD.
23:58:33 <Peter1986> looks like he don't want unwanted guests at nightlyserver...
continue to next day ⏵
