IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-11-16
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00:03:01 <Bjarni> ln-: with the default configuration?
00:07:29 <ln-> Bjarni: i did make clean ; ./configure ; make
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00:18:12 <ln-> Bjarni: btw, what's the resolution of the icon?
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00:22:30 <ln-> Bjarni: you know, Leopard supports large icons, 512×512.
00:23:20 <ln-> possibly even icons in vector format; not sure.
00:25:33 <glx> Frostregen: yes, they are action5 now
00:28:45 <Frostregen> already figured it out and working again
00:29:33 <Frostregen> surprisingly it was working again, before i understood why =)
00:32:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is how 95% of the world works
00:33:32 <Frostregen> most time it is the other way round ;)
00:33:53 <Frostregen> it does not work, and you don't know why
00:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, occasionally it does not work, you know why, but you can do nothing against it
00:35:53 <Frostregen> yes...especially if you are forced to use some stupid framework
00:38:45 <Frostregen> *don't think about work*
00:40:34 <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: you know, Leopard supports large icons, 512×512 <-- hmm.... we better make a new one then
00:40:55 <Bjarni> downscaled from 1024x1024
00:41:09 <Bjarni> the question is... where did I put the big image....
00:50:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... something is odd...
00:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> i moved some files from one disk to another
00:51:29 <Bjarni> and they appeared on the other disk?
00:51:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> /dev/hda4 76G 71G 5,0G 94%
00:51:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> /dev/sdb1 466G 459G 7,3G 99%
00:52:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> /dev/hda4 76G 69G 6,3G 92%
00:52:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> /dev/sdb1 466G 466G 136M 100%
00:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> (i leave it as an exercise to the reader to check the constraint that after moving, the free space should stay the same)
00:56:20 <ln-> 1) you have files still open, 2) run fsck
01:00:31 <Tefad> unix doesn't unlink files upon removing the file name
01:00:49 <Tefad> so if there was something that had the file open, it will stay allocated until it's released
01:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, the freed space is correct, the newly used space is overcalculated
01:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> (or the original free space was, and now it got recalculated upon "disk full" message)
01:01:29 <Tefad> i say reboot and see if it's still this way ; )
01:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> i did not move 7GB of data
01:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's a bad idea ;)
01:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> and yes, i know about the open file thingy
01:05:27 <ln-> some time ago i was not able to fit 6GB of data to 7.2GB free space on ext3...
01:05:56 <ln-> then i ran e2fsck on it, and suddenly the free space dropped to about 5.8GB
01:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> afaik this is a FAT drive...
01:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> i had some similar thoughts when i noticed the first time :p
01:11:40 <Frostregen> Users browsing this forum: draketrumpet, Frostregen, Google [Bot] and 3 guests
01:11:50 <Frostregen> Google has its own account? =)
01:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... my first thought would be a user with a sick sense of humour :p
01:13:14 <Gonozal_VIII> there seems to be a problem with the openttd.cfg
01:13:32 <Gonozal_VIII> the game removes the first newline
01:13:57 <Gonozal_VIII> but when i change something and save it without that newline i get lots of out of group messages
01:15:19 <Gonozal_VIII> when closing the game i get those messages again and everything in the file gets set to default
01:17:25 <Gonozal_VIII> with the newline there is a single out of group message, the newline gets removed but settings stay
01:19:09 <Gonozal_VIII> the something i changed was newgrfs btw and yes, i did that the right way
01:22:14 <Gonozal_VIII> i think i remember that older versions of the game didn't remove the newline before [misc]
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02:26:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11443 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] Action 0 <id> is an extended byte
02:45:21 <SmatZ> I will have uptime 1234:56
02:45:34 <SmatZ> have to stay and make screenshot!
02:46:04 <SmatZ> -> 2 51 days, 10:10:24 | Linux 2.6.22-gentoo-r5 Tue Sep 25 18:35:25 2007
02:46:38 <SmatZ> such useless thing forces me not to sleep today :-/
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05:47:08 * Soup slaps Soup's bottom and grins cheekily
05:50:17 <Soup> And please, no YouTube.com Posting Or elese a ban
05:53:30 * Soup gives orudge a hearty slap
05:55:04 * Soup slaps Soup's bottom and grins cheekily
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07:22:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r11444 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
07:22:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-11-16 08:21:07
07:22:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changed by Hadez (1)
07:22:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 1 fixed by kristjans (1)
07:22:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 10 changed by glx (10)
07:22:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 3 fixed, 1 changed by lorenzodv (4)
07:22:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: japanese - 1 fixed by ickoonite (1)
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14:08:40 <SmatZ> [P lis 16 2007] [03:45:22] <SmatZ> I will have uptime 1234:56
14:11:05 <dihedral> :~# uptime 15:10:49 up 155 days, 43 min, 2 users, load average: 0.14, 0.13, 0.11
14:11:32 <SmatZ> it is not under load...
14:12:10 <SmatZ> I should buy a new cooler, or at least clean this one
14:12:17 <SmatZ> even not under load it has ~65C
14:12:18 <dihedral> that value is usually between 0.4 and 0.65
14:12:39 <Rubidium> dihedral: for what reason is it usually between 0.4 and 0.65?
14:12:51 <Rubidium> and why does it need to be in that range?
14:12:53 <dihedral> services running and being used
14:13:22 <dihedral> web db backup games svn etc.
14:13:41 <dihedral> i start worrying if it's not where i expect it to be
14:13:49 <dihedral> because it could mean that something went wrong
14:14:03 <dihedral> i expect a daily something
14:14:07 <dihedral> if it aint there i check
14:14:20 <Rubidium> dihedral: do you have ANY idea what those load numbers mean?
14:15:37 <dihedral> load av from last 5 10 and 15 mins
14:16:14 <Rubidium> what does the number mean?
14:16:26 <dihedral> is related to the number of procs
14:16:50 <Rubidium> what does 0.65 mean? How is the number calculated?
14:17:09 <dihedral> Rubidium: i dont care - i watch it over time
14:17:20 <dihedral> if any of the values i watch over time drop
14:17:25 <hylje> means the queued tasks against available processing power
14:17:34 <hylje> 1 is about the max efficiency
14:17:53 <Rubidium> hylje: highly depends on the tasks being performed
14:18:14 <Rubidium> but it's the average number of timeslices a process must wait till it gets another timeslice.
14:19:02 <dihedral> 'slice' of the man page
14:19:04 <dihedral> Load averages are not normalized for the number of CPUs in a system, so a load averâ age of 1 means a single CPU system is loaded all the time while on a 4 CPU system it means it was idle 75% of the time.
14:19:12 <Rubidium> for very I/O heavy applications 10 can still be no problem
14:19:55 <dihedral> and Rubidium i am not the only person using that server
14:20:06 <dihedral> and i am not refering to random gamers there either
14:23:35 <dihedral> Rubidium: according to the man page, that value is also dependant on the number of processors in a system
14:23:43 <dihedral> so if you get a 10 or not is also dependant on that :-)
14:25:35 <dihedral> so in the case of my server a 10 is absolutely impossible
14:26:59 <dihedral> no matter how I/O intensive an application may become
14:29:56 <Rubidium> dihedral: I can easily make my server (or personal computer) give a load of 20 and still have a very useable machine
14:30:28 <Rubidium> I just need to prioritize the CPU cycle eating processes much less than the others
14:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> i often have a load of >4
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14:48:03 <spark_> anybody interested in anime wallpapers ?
14:48:30 <Ammler> I guess, he asked for ban
14:50:14 <hylje> i'd think a certain imageboard would like
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14:50:54 <dihedral> yes - i was thinking along the same line Ammler
14:51:41 <skidd13> XeryusTC: ^^^^ There is someone offering Anime wallpapers *g*
14:52:07 <XeryusTC> spark_: got any Jigoku Shoujo?
14:53:02 <skidd13> spark_ ; XeryusTC You can talk P2P. Thanks ;)
14:53:31 <spark_> XeryusTC: only Mahou Shoujo Nanoha
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15:13:10 <dihedral> Anybody up for some ET this weekend?
15:15:25 <dihedral> dont shout all at once
15:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> i am home, why should i phone there?
15:17:28 <Rubidium> do you think we even have time for that?
15:19:49 <Belugas> Entertainment Tonight? Endurance Testing? Elaborate Torture? Enlightment Therapy?
15:23:27 <dihedral> Belugas: chose your pick
15:23:39 <dihedral> Rubidium: you have time, it's up to you what you do with it :-P
15:30:35 * bruce89 reminds people not to try opening 16MB PNGs in the GIMP
15:31:16 <titus> bruce89: -rw-r--r-- 1 titus guru 427349319 2005-10-19 22:30 world.200401.3x21600x21600.C1.png
15:31:25 <Belugas> Eternal Tergiversation
15:34:37 <bruce89> I suppose that's Blue Marble
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16:10:09 <huma> bruce89, 16 mb png? what would it be?
16:26:51 <dihedral> who kinda took over TB's 'role'?
16:29:39 <huma> you're lucky it's not canada :)
16:33:37 <Belugas> dihedral, what "role" are you referring to?
16:34:08 <Belugas> speaking of Canada, Montreal has received its first florries today
16:35:17 <dihedral> Belugas: TrueBrain ran our wwottdgd diff by the compilefarm to make our wwottdgd binaries
16:36:32 <Belugas> ho... nobody, it seems.
16:36:48 <dihedral> would it be possible for someone to do that for us again?
16:37:32 <dihedral> just so we kinda know who to address etc.
16:46:40 <Belugas> i'll see what to do with the others
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17:51:56 <Belugas> bruce89, can we say that fs1447 can be closed?
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17:58:29 <Ammler> Belugas: coolest thing for all (I guess) would be, if we could have our own branch like MiniIN and it would be compiled automatically.
17:59:04 <Ammler> so noone of you need to be around for new builds
17:59:34 <Ammler> I guess, dihedral is fit enough with SVN
17:59:54 <dihedral> and then we constantly need to merge changes from /trunk with our branch!
18:00:13 <Ammler> hmm, isn't there a autosync?
18:00:31 <dihedral> there is 'external' but that does not work overlapping
18:01:07 <dihedral> i.e. refering to an 'external' repository or another path within the same repository
18:01:15 <dihedral> good example for that is in the noai branch
18:01:22 <dihedral> looking at the 3rdparty folder
18:02:27 <dihedral> need to restart... brb
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18:09:40 <Thraxian> I was talking to dihedral, and I'm having issues with language selection in the r11394M build
18:09:54 <Thraxian> I can select afrikaans, croatian, or pig latin
18:10:05 <Thraxian> any idea why the other lang files aren't being picked up?
18:10:37 <Belugas> define "picked up" please
18:11:04 <Thraxian> the options screen is not listing the other lang files I have in my lang directory
18:11:04 <Ammler> Thraxian: do you talk about MZ build?
18:11:22 <Ammler> hmm, I have all languages
18:11:30 <Ammler> did you make the build self?
18:11:33 <Thraxian> if I manually change the .cfg file to use english language, it changes on startup to afrikaans
18:11:44 <Thraxian> yes. I can rebuild it, if you think that would help
18:12:32 <dihedral> give it a shot just to make sure
18:12:44 <dihedral> and dont forget the svn up -r <whateveritis>
18:12:45 <Ammler> Thraxian: hmm, or tell us how you did it
18:13:27 <Thraxian> started bottd, selected the patch file (downloaded from dih's link), checked the "force revision to match patch", and hit update and compile
18:13:59 <Ammler> ok, I start my windows to see it...
18:14:02 <Thraxian> settings has my *TT* install path correct
18:14:40 <Thraxian> also, if you log in to the MZ build, and look at San Cristobal East station with pig latin selected, drag the station window around, you will see that the text doesn't clear from the screen properly
18:14:46 <Ammler> you don't need TT install path
18:15:04 <Ammler> I would either suggest to remove it
18:15:06 <Thraxian> plus, you can't see the cargo quantity, because the rest of the text is too long (and it is right-aligned)
18:15:46 <Ammler> the path is only needed for copying the original grfs, but you have them in your general ottd home
18:16:30 <Thraxian> and after compile, I copied the data directory and the new .exe into my existing ttd program directory
18:16:35 <Thraxian> I didn't copy the lang files - should I have?
18:18:02 <Thraxian> well, that was a simple fix
18:18:17 <Thraxian> I assumed that since I already had the language files in my program directory, I didn't need to copy the new ones
18:19:11 <Thraxian> any idea why those 3 languages worked, even though they weren't copied over either?
18:19:22 <Thraxian> (afrikaans, croatian, pig latin)
18:22:06 <Ammler> Thraxian: if you use bottd right, you don't need to copy anything
18:22:20 <Ammler> it makes everything for you
18:22:48 <Ammler> the tool is pretty cool and nearly like using linux
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18:25:25 <Thraxian> the build goes into a directory based on the patch name, "16" (possibly due to 16bit graphics?), and the build time
18:26:41 <Thraxian> and the mz server uses newgrfs which aren't referenced in the build, so *something* would have to be copied to get that to work, right?
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18:27:23 <Ammler> you have a folder called openttd in your "My Documents"
18:27:46 <Ammler> and there is a folder called data with the original grfs and the ottdc grfpack
18:28:15 <Ammler> you can use those grfs for all your nightly builds
18:29:14 <Ammler> Its somehow split between build and userdata
18:29:56 <Ammler> you like it even more, if you have 10 different builds
18:30:43 <Thraxian> I don't right now, but I do have 11369, 0.5.3, and now 11394M going at the same time
18:31:02 <Thraxian> having a common directory for grfs does make things much easier to maintain
18:31:09 <glx> 0.5.3 doesn't use this dir
18:31:10 <Ammler> hmm, it doesn't work for 0.5.3
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18:37:43 <Ammler> Belugas: is that all free available?=
18:40:58 <huma> gee, there's 2008 already
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18:45:16 <Wolf01> i said "omg" and my bot replied "i'm here, idiot".. how cute :D
18:46:07 <Thraxian> I was reading a development magazine the other day, and an article says that the code required Visual Basic 9.0. And here I am doing my work in version 6.0. Made me feel really old.
18:48:25 <Belugas> [13:39] <Ammler> Belugas: is that all free available?= <--- not following... sorry
18:48:58 <Thraxian> Visual Studio Express editions are free downloads.
18:49:54 <Thraxian> I think it's still in Beta2 though, isn't it?
18:50:50 <huma> BigBB, thanks, i'm sure it'll be helpful
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19:13:19 <Gonozal_VIII> the autoroad tool sprite replaces a sprite that is used in helidepot, commuter, international and intercontinental airport... r11440, all newgrf disabled
19:19:00 <Ammler> its the circle for the landing place for helicopters
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20:31:13 <Sacro> fjb: dare you to touch the blue cup
20:33:29 <fjb> Which cup? Blue background with a white square.
20:34:52 <Sacro> the jip and janneka beaker
20:35:45 <Bjarni> Sacro found a Dutch site and didn't ask me to translate it o_O
20:36:15 <Sacro> but that site doesn't need translation
20:36:19 <Bjarni> are you on some sort of medication?
20:36:38 <Sacro> but thats beside the point
20:37:34 <Bjarni> I can't help wondering.... how much work would it be if they have to replace the front page with new stuff
20:37:41 <Bjarni> they can't sell the same stuff over and over
20:37:47 <Bjarni> eventually they will run out
20:44:12 <Bjarni> maybe it's a page copied from a real shop
20:44:20 <Bjarni> they do have a shop named something like this
20:45:57 <Bjarni> well... it has a login system, a shopping basket and stuff
20:46:53 <Bjarni> you would if you could read the text
20:47:53 <fjb> Hm, they must be making big money. They pay Adobe to preselect their customers.
20:49:09 <Bjarni> it's an odd collection of merchandise though
20:49:32 <Bjarni> computer stuff, cloth (male and female), bags, watches, wine, photo stuff....
20:50:34 <fjb> They put a flash intro in front of the shop. So you don't see the shop when you don't have the flash version that they are expecting. Plain stupid.
20:51:34 <Bjarni> Sacro's link is a joke and not the real front page
20:52:09 <fjb> Hm, that is not much less stupid...
20:53:43 <Bjarni> they sell swimsuits and tents too
20:53:54 <Bjarni> not to mention baby bottles and stuff like that
20:54:40 <Bjarni> lamps, chairs, beds, candles
20:54:53 <Bjarni> I have never seen so much in just one online store before
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20:57:28 <Bjarni> needless to say it looks a whole lot more sane here
20:57:57 <Bjarni> and report broken konqueror support :P
20:57:58 <fjb> Yes, it is made fore a special browser, not complient to any standard.
20:58:15 <Bjarni> it works in firefox (at least here)
20:58:33 <svip> Konqueror uses KHTML also known as webkit.
20:58:38 <svip> The same think Safari runs on.
20:59:38 <fjb> The w3c vaidator says that is not valid html. .-)
20:59:41 <Bjarni> and wow... first time I started safari 3 and it's way faster than safari 2
21:00:03 <svip> The reason why it is both called KHTML and Webkit, is because Safari have their own developed version of Webkit.
21:00:09 <Bjarni> fjb: you don't use a valid smiley either so I guess that's appropriate :P
21:01:06 <Bjarni> 2 paar sportsokken real cool cotton™ <-- that for €4.95.... I have no idea if that's a good price or not
21:01:44 <bruce89> WebKit is a fork of KHTML by Apple
21:01:57 <bruce89> it is very nice, and fast too
21:02:14 <Bjarni> haha, it will cost me €15 to get it sent to me... 3 times the price of the product itself :D
21:02:25 <fjb> Bjarni: The site god me half blinded...
21:03:43 <Bjarni> wtf... you can also buy glasses here
21:03:49 <Bjarni> who would buy glasses online?
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21:04:37 <fjb> Bjarni: Blind people? :-)
21:05:09 <Gonozal_VIII> that doesn't make sense on so many levels.
21:05:30 <Bjarni> not only are they designed for my eye placement, they are also in the wrong strength
21:05:37 <Bjarni> and same strength for both eyes
21:05:46 <Bjarni> those appears to be crap glasses
21:06:53 <bruce89> although KHTML is probably going down the tubes
21:08:21 <Bjarni> "I'm going to eat you", "no", "ok, then I will just eat your name"
21:08:58 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: now you are named Gonoal_VIII... I got hungry :P
21:09:43 <Gonozal_VIII> edible letters are nothing new, there is that russian bread stuff too
21:10:35 <Bjarni> now nothing will surprise me anymore
21:10:48 <Bjarni> it's the shop with everything except the stuff you need
21:12:11 <LeviathNL> they even sell funeral insurances
21:13:54 * Bjarni wonders if he can insurance a pack of cigars against fire
21:14:13 <Bjarni> looks like they sell everything else
21:16:22 <Bjarni> ok... something a bit more serious
21:16:48 * Bjarni goes back to wonder why the nightly build server had a warning for the PPC OSX build and not the x86 OSX build
21:17:00 <Bjarni> same code but only one of them made a warning
21:23:06 <fjb> Bjarni: An endian problem?
21:24:23 <Bjarni> src/os/macosx/macos.mm:171: warning: 'NSString' may not respond to '-getCString:maxLength:encoding:'
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21:48:36 <fjb> I'm having a textile factory and the truck stop next to it doesn't accept anything.
21:48:58 <Gonozal_VIII> is the factory new?
21:49:07 <Gonozal_VIII> can take some days
21:50:22 <fjb> No, was created at the start of the game and is the last industry with a very low production level.
21:50:56 <LeviathNL> grfcodec 0.9.10 (linux) does not give any output at all :(
21:51:40 <fjb> No tile of the factory accepts anything.
21:51:51 <Ammler> LeviathNL: you should take the nightly build
21:51:57 <Bjarni> fjb: maybe the station needs to catch a specific tile of the factory. Try to build a new one and move around to see if the demand is only present at some tiles
21:52:21 <fjb> LeviathNL: get grfcodec from subversion. The precompiled is badly broken.
21:52:38 <Gonozal_VIII> other factories of same type work?
21:52:45 <LeviathNL> hmm ok, compiled version is same version as compiled though
21:53:02 <fjb> Bjarni: I used the ? and looked at every tile of the factory. None accepts anything.
21:53:10 <Ammler> I have 0.9.10 r1721, which has you?
21:53:23 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: It is the last one that didn't close.
21:53:33 <Bjarni> fjb: err... should the factory accept anything. Try to normally click it
21:53:46 <Bjarni> for all we know this could be a bug in the grf file
21:53:52 <LeviathNL> 0.9.10, on the site it says :
21:53:52 <LeviathNL> Changes in 0.9.10 (r819):
21:54:13 <Ammler> LeviathNL: run grfcodec without arguments
21:54:34 <fjb> The informtion window tells me that it needs wool, fibre crops and dyes.
21:54:49 <LeviathNL> I did no output also none in console, I'll compile from subversion now
21:54:55 <Ammler> but well, you have a old one
21:55:02 <LeviathNL> ( I was wrong compiled version is way older as svn)
21:55:11 <Bjarni> try to place a train station (don't build it, just highlight a location) that covers ALL the tiles of the factory at the same time
21:55:18 <fjb> Bjarni: Maybe it is a bug in the grf.
21:55:35 <fjb> That station covers all tiles...
21:55:38 <Bjarni> as I said a moment ago
21:55:43 <Ammler> fjb: you have newest nightly?
21:56:09 <Ammler> because there was some fixes about a week ago
21:56:22 <Gonozal_VIII> ecs textile factory works for me with 11440
21:56:34 <Gonozal_VIII> did also work before..
21:56:43 <Bjarni> fjb: check if other factories on the same map works
21:57:06 <fjb> Ok, I have to earn some money and then build one.
21:57:11 <Gonozal_VIII> how's your grflist?
21:57:37 <fjb> ECS grfs are loaded according to their id.
21:58:32 <LeviathNL> wow parser errors all over when compiling
22:00:45 <Gonozal_VIII> ordered by id should be right...
22:02:59 <fjb> Yes, like that. I cheated and build a new one, that also doesn't accept anything even after a few weeks.
22:03:52 <fjb> Maybe there is a bug in the grf.
22:03:55 <Gonozal_VIII> do you have the latest version of all ecs grfs?
22:04:21 <fjb> Yes, latest versions from Geoges site.
22:04:53 <Gonozal_VIII> funny... works perfectly fine here
22:05:42 <Gonozal_VIII> with and without all the other grfs
22:07:03 <Gonozal_VIII> can't reproduce that
22:07:41 <fjb> Hm, don't know then. I can live without it in this game. I will test it with a new game.
22:08:16 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm yes... could be something broken in the game
22:10:27 <fjb> I just generated a new game and it is working there. Strange.
22:11:05 <fjb> Maybe I did something stupid, but don't know what.
22:12:54 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe the version change of the ecs grf broke that save...
22:12:55 <fjb> But I think I found a real bug in the game. Do you remember that I had 65536 BR 62 in the locomotive update window? I could reproduce it.
22:13:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11445 /trunk/projects/ (generate openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs80.vcproj.in): -Codechange: reorder <configuration> in openttd_vs80.vcproj, so there are less diff when it is modified by MSVC
22:13:15 <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: I didn't rthink of that. Maybe.
22:15:28 <fjb> The strange number of locomotives happens when I buy an ai company that got bankrupt. Than their locomotives do not show up in the autoupgrade window. If I do an upgrade by hand of that locomotive the window shows me 65535 locomotives of that kind.
22:16:12 <fjb> But the number in the save is correct. If I save the game and load the save, the number of that locomotives is 0.
22:16:38 <Gonozal_VIII> i also had that strange numbers once but without any ai, loading fixed it and i couldn't reproduce it
22:18:14 <Gonozal_VIII> but i know that i didn't play with ai
22:19:38 <Gonozal_VIII> but that could be unrelated, maybe the problem that caused mine was fixed long ago, happened to me somewhere around r7k
22:26:34 <Gonozal_VIII> you haven't seen star wars?
22:28:38 <LeviathNL> telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl :P
22:30:58 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: sure i have
22:31:17 <ln-> but i mean, is it ok to justify two youtube links
22:31:34 <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes, youtube links
22:32:06 <Gonozal_VIII> didn't you complain about youtube not working or something like that?
22:32:49 <ln-> i don't remember complaining anything such within the past year
22:35:35 <Gonozal_VIII> [22:35:30] Bjarni: Flash (YouTube, etc.) broken under Leopard (Mac OS X 10.5)
22:36:02 <Bjarni> luckily I didn't switch away from Tiger
22:36:04 <Gonozal_VIII> and you wrote something about using leopard...
22:36:15 <glx> BigBB: can you remake a vc2008 diff ?
22:36:28 <Bjarni> I don't have leopard and as it is now I will not have it either
22:36:37 <Bjarni> Apple needs to fix it first
22:36:55 <Gonozal_VIII> seems to be simmilar to vista
22:37:09 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't work too well either
22:37:37 <BigBB> glx, you mean a diff of the project files after VS9 converted them?
22:37:49 <Bjarni> but Leopard has the potential to be fixed with an update in a not too distant future as the core of the OS rocks
22:38:00 <glx> it should be smaller now BigBB :)
22:38:11 <bruce89> Bjarni: Saying as it is BSD
22:39:01 <Bjarni> also if you look at the issues you will notice that none of them are core issues
22:39:12 * fjb hates network problems...
22:39:25 <Bjarni> like safari 3 is unstable with 3rd party plugins and such issues
22:39:43 <Bjarni> annoying and it hurts production, but once those issues are gone, then I think it will be a nice OS
22:39:46 <glx> then slap 3rd party devs ;)
22:45:36 <BigBB> Sacro, I use vc2008 (since today ^^), in the wiki is a guide
22:46:08 <Bjarni> some train just blasted the horn for like 10 sec (or more)
22:46:29 <Prof_Frink> Was it followed by a "squelch" sound?
22:46:45 <Bjarni> but it haven't arrived here yet
22:47:53 <Bjarni> interesting... according to the railroad all the trains are cancelled due to signal issues
22:48:04 <Bjarni> so it was a ghosttrain blasting the horn?
22:48:21 <Prof_Frink> Ok, that horn meant "signals fucked, COMING THROUGH!"
22:49:14 <Bjarni> because the broken signals are to the south
22:49:18 <Bjarni> the train is to the north
22:49:43 <Bjarni> still no trains.... either it's heading away from me or it stopped
22:51:24 <Bjarni> actually the horn is not used when passing a broken signal
22:51:36 <Bjarni> the horn is used when passing broken road crossings though
22:51:57 <Bjarni> but they removed the last one like a decade or two ago
22:52:28 <Gonozal_VIII> they use it here on a regular basis for unsafe crossings and in front of tunnels
22:53:05 <Gonozal_VIII> don't know why anybody would walk through a rail tunnel...
22:53:09 <Sacro> hmm, platforms 2A and 2B have 4 trains there :\
22:53:30 <Bjarni> a few years ago somebody got crushed when he walked though our only railroad tunnel
22:53:47 <Bjarni> odd thing is... the tunnel is below a city and there is a road on top of it
22:53:58 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> drunk? <-- AFAIK no
22:54:14 <Gonozal_VIII> just stupid then
22:54:16 <Bjarni> a really friendly guy, but a bit weird at times
22:54:30 <Bjarni> at least that's what I was told by a guy who knew him
22:55:17 <Bjarni> and for unsafe crossings... they are banned on railroads with a speed limit more than 75 km/h
22:55:40 <Bjarni> we do have them on the 75 km/h lines though
22:56:11 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know how fast they go here but not slow... and lots of crossings without bars
22:57:40 <Bjarni> crossings without barriers aren't considered unsafe
22:57:56 <Gonozal_VIII> then what crossings are?
22:57:56 <Bjarni> unsafe crossings are without anything that activates when the train approaches
22:58:11 <Gonozal_VIII> ok then we have none of those
22:58:26 <Bjarni> so a crossing with a red light is considered secured
22:58:28 <Gonozal_VIII> red light is there
22:59:16 <Gonozal_VIII> but that's not always very secure.. if the sun comes from the right angle it can be hard to tell if the light is red or not
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23:00:46 <Bjarni> yeah, but they are technically defined as secure
23:01:18 <Bjarni> "automated secured crossings"
23:02:03 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: What if the thing that activates is a man in a box who wanders over and closes the gates?
23:02:27 <Bjarni> heh. I just searched for a pic of one of the insecure crossings and the first hit... well my first thought was "hey I was present when that picture was taken"
23:02:45 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: then it's not automated ;)
23:03:16 <Gonozal_VIII> until some years ago we had that here
23:04:13 <Gonozal_VIII> also with a long cable that pulls the bars up from a distance that one guy can operate multiple crossings
23:04:20 <Prof_Frink> "Check light is green. open both gates. check light is green. drive across. check light is green. close both gates." Coldblow LC says something like this.
23:05:09 <Gonozal_VIII> is that in austria?
23:06:29 <Gonozal_VIII> those little sound lines are funny^^
23:07:30 <Gonozal_VIII> haven't seen a sign like that before but it could be somewhere in austria
23:10:22 <Bjarni> we don't have the that train anymore though
23:10:27 <Gonozal_VIII> is that some kind of modified bus there?^^
23:10:45 <Bjarni> maybe you can call it that XD
23:11:27 <Sacro> hehe "5C04 received an adverse change of aspect at signal S751"
23:11:44 <Bjarni> it's not operational though :/
23:12:00 * Sacro almost had 2 trains going towards each other on a one track section
23:12:23 <Bjarni> the wheels are worn out... kind of like how tires on a car gets worn out eventually
23:12:53 <Sacro> the new sheffield one is brilliant
23:12:58 <Bjarni> it's less fun in real life
23:13:21 <Sacro> i'd have just got sacked for that trick
23:13:25 <Sacro> and possibly derailed 2 trains
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23:13:43 <Bjarni> derailing trains aren't fun either
23:15:47 <Bjarni> Sacro: you know.... in Japan like 20 years ago an unauthorised repair to the signals made it impossible for the signal controller to see a train on the track and it was not a regular train so he thought it was a mistake that the signal couldn't turn green and ordered another train to pass the signal at danger into a single tracked line
23:16:31 <Bjarni> another "creative" repair to the signals made the next signal go green even though there was a train behind it and it resulted in both train travelling at high speed when they saw each other
23:16:47 <Bjarni> it killed more than 100 passengers :(
23:17:31 <Bjarni> JR stopped making shortcuts on local lines after that
23:18:25 <Bjarni> kind of scary that it could happen at all
23:19:55 <Bjarni> but it only happened because of two independent unauthorised fixes to the signals and the fact that the guy controlling the signals didn't notice the paper telling him about the extra train that day
23:20:55 <Bjarni> if just one of those 3 errors wasn't present or the timing wasn't so unlucky then this was avoided
23:22:01 <Bjarni> the interesting part is that JR blamed the local line and didn't want to use it anymore but it was JR people, who butchered a signal and made it go green when there was a train behind it
23:22:15 <Bjarni> it was the local line that hid the train on the tracks though
23:22:58 <Bjarni> when you look at accidents they usually have a whole lot of parameters where if just one of them were different then nothing would have happened
23:24:48 <Sacro> if only that other train wasn't there
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23:29:05 <fjb> Why does Michael Blunck always complain about our physical model for trains?
23:29:34 <Bjarni> because we want to improve it aka it's not good enough?
23:29:53 <Bjarni> the first model sucked so we rewrote it into something better
23:30:09 <Bjarni> but certain trains still give way off accelerations
23:30:31 <fjb> Hm, how does the patch do it?
23:30:47 <Bjarni> I don't think the patch does it right either
23:32:26 <fjb> So we need somebody with more physical knowledge?
23:36:01 <Bjarni> our model is based on some formula that real life railroads used to use
23:36:14 <Bjarni> so basically we need to update our model and take it out of the steam era :)
23:37:43 <Bjarni> "Davis formula"... that was the name
23:38:03 <fjb> Hm, why doesn't it work for us?
23:39:02 <fjb> I'm not that good in physics...
23:39:58 <Bjarni> either we implemented it wrong or we got it wrong because the formula is old and is based on "what appears to be correct based on experience" like many formulas from the 19th and early 20th century
23:40:17 <Bjarni> but it did work for the railroads so it shouldn't be far off
23:41:06 <fjb> Everything is there, friction, resistance,... hm oesn't look bad. But I don't know much about it.
23:41:15 <Bjarni> somewhere I have a description on how to design a steam locomotive. I mean what piston size to use based on drivers and boiler size and what size the firebox should be based on boiler size and so on
23:41:36 <Bjarni> it's a book real life engineers used to built them
23:41:58 <Bjarni> and it's basically based on experience rather than real science so some of it is lucky guesses
23:42:09 <Bjarni> they had a lot of prototypes that failed horribly
23:42:29 <fjb> But at least some worked.
23:42:54 <fjb> I'm more into programming than building steam engines. :-)
23:43:14 <Bjarni> it was kind of like gold mining... many tried to make something good and lost money on building junk or some average stuff... once in a while somebody made something really good and it was something that could be sold
23:44:30 <Bjarni> like Miller... he made an engine for his own railroad (it had a total length of tracks that was max 50 km). It turned out to be good so other railroads wanted them too, but their repairshop didn't have the capacity to build for other railroads so they sent the blueprints to a big factory in Germany
23:44:50 <fjb> And nowadays we look at the old engines and think they are cute. :-)
23:44:54 <Bjarni> then the factory offered a fortune if they could use parts of the design because it was better than their own
23:45:30 <Bjarni> and wanted to make even better locomotives so he went to America to see their locomotives
23:46:00 <Bjarni> and rich as he was he decided to go with Titanic... that was the end of good locomotives for that line
23:46:32 <Sacro> can i reverse that train on the main line before that one wants to leave...
23:48:34 <Bjarni> one of the best radio conversations I heard was "[name of train] is late so you can't go to track [number] but I need the track you are in for [name of other train arriving shortly]"
23:48:56 <fjb> Hm, the Titanic, that was also a case where many failures happened. If only one of them didn't happen the wouldn't have sunken.
23:49:56 <Bjarni> with some quick switching work we ended up having 3 trains in two tracks and no trains were delayed. The train that was already delayed even caught up with the delay
23:50:15 <Bjarni> too bad you can't make quick switching work like that in simsig :P
23:50:15 <spark_> hm, why i can't change diesel engines for electric ones ? i mean automatic exchange
23:50:20 <Sacro> keep getting penalties for excessive delays at lcs
23:50:50 <spark_> Bjarni: what i need to do ?
23:51:00 <Bjarni> in the autoreplace window you should switch the pulldown menu to electric
23:51:14 <Bjarni> and naturally the train needs to be in an electric depot to be replaced
23:51:21 <Sacro> spark_: it was badly written i know
23:51:45 <Sacro> last time we employ that coder again... ;)
23:52:22 <Bjarni> you have a better idea for controlling this?
23:53:38 <Bjarni> btw the autoreplace GUI was the first GUI work I ever made... I didn't really care before I did that one and made other people code GUIs but nobody wanted to code this one
23:53:51 <Bjarni> so I had to learn as I coded it
23:54:13 <Sacro> :o theres a train to beverley :D
23:54:20 <Bjarni> also I had to modify the window engine as it didn't support both scrollbars and stuff... I fixed that at the same time
23:55:06 <Bjarni> I think (specially considering it was the first window ever) that this window turned out ok
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23:56:09 <fjb> And autoreplace option that only replaces overaged vehicles would be great.
23:56:51 <Bjarni> I like the Olsen Gang where they try to steal an armoured car containing gold... It was supposed to be the last in a train but a passenger car is added behind it and they steal the passenger car as well (with their stolen locomotive)
23:57:28 <Bjarni> when they realise that the car is full of drunken police officers on a picnic then they want to get rid of them right away (naturally)
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23:57:39 <fjb> I remember tha Olsen movie.
23:57:55 <Bjarni> first siding turns out to be Carlsberg so the police ends up in the Carlsberg brewery
23:59:22 <Bjarni> those movies were nothing but jokes and most of them were jokes on actual events in real life
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23:59:30 <Bjarni> like political cases and such
23:59:42 <Bjarni> too bad most of them are dead by now :(
23:59:56 <Bjarni> I mean the script writers, most of the actors and those people
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