IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-10-31
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00:13:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> that page is empty here...
00:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, you don't have to answer me, just leave...
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07:04:02 <Tefad> are catchment areas exact?
07:05:59 <Tefad> er, resources aren't unlimited now?
07:10:45 * Rubidium assumes Tefad used PBI
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09:09:22 <TrueBrain> only if you stop putting your personal state at the end of your name... very annoying
09:09:34 <TrueBrain> normal people use /away for it
09:10:13 <TrueBrain> good good :) Class in a few minutes
09:10:30 <Celestar> how do I get myself off the mailing list?
09:10:32 <TrueBrain> it is an interesting class, so I don't mind :)
09:10:40 <TrueBrain> Celestar: it tells you at the end of each email ;)
09:10:43 <TrueBrain> Computer Architecture
09:11:03 <TrueBrain> but spam should be reduced big-time
09:12:32 <TrueBrain> yesterday I did the first step, today the second
09:13:35 <TrueBrain> slapped mailman as hard as possible :p
09:13:42 <TrueBrain> it now check Envelope Sender instead of Sender
09:13:54 <TrueBrain> and I changed the Envelope Sender of the maillist to something... more hidden :)
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09:18:15 <ln-> let's re-paste this now that Celestar is here...
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10:08:19 <ln-> Celestar: someone said the smoke would be photoshopped, but it isn't, right?
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10:37:13 <ln-> (seeing photoshopped things everywhere is a mental problem)
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12:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> <TrueBrain> good good :) Class in a few minutes <- err, we have holiday here...
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12:33:10 <TrueBrain> and how should I care bout that?
12:34:42 <TrueBrain> the question was: HOW should I care about that, so 'yes' is an invalid answer ;)
12:34:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> that was on purpose ;)
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13:13:04 <TrueBrain> a webbased sprite-engine
13:14:18 <TrueBrain> direct webserver integration
13:14:51 <TrueBrain> direct webserver integration
13:18:13 <hylje> so you took on the idea of stackless ottd ;P
13:18:32 <TrueBrain> hylje: lol, not really :)
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13:23:05 <TrueBrain> my website fails on it, because it caches AJAX replies...
13:23:36 <huma> firefox is doing fine here
13:23:48 <huma> but.. i'd like some arctic :)
13:26:24 <TrueBrain> so, there, IE fixed :)
13:26:34 <TrueBrain> huma: I personally first want a moving object ;)
13:27:24 <huma> so it's a proof of concept?
13:28:29 <Ammler> TrueBrain: which browser do you use?
13:28:51 <Ammler> I have some glitches while moving the map with FF
13:29:22 <TrueBrain> Ammler: don't move _too_ fast :p
13:29:28 <hylje> yes, it goes out of sync after moving a bit too fast
13:29:38 <TrueBrain> if the server can't keep up with you, and a request is lost
13:29:42 <TrueBrain> your map will be out of sync :)
13:29:45 <TrueBrain> this will be fixed later
13:30:58 <Ammler> I am not sure about Ajax, but do you know Firebug?
13:32:32 <Ammler> it shows many errors...
13:32:41 <TrueBrain> XHTML errors, I am sure
13:34:17 <Ammler> oh, ok, I get the errors only if I desync, :) nice to have that now on weg too.
13:34:39 <TrueBrain> what kind of errors?
13:34:53 <TrueBrain> (for me it is impossible to cause a desync, my connection is a bit too fast ;))
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13:45:27 <huma> tram breaks like a bus :)
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14:40:40 <dihedral> how about building a full web ottd :-D
14:40:45 <TrueBrain> dihedral: feel free!
14:41:01 <huma> ok, where's the source anyway?
14:42:33 <dihedral> TB's going commercial :-D
14:42:41 <TrueBrain> :) Something has to pay the bills :p
14:42:42 <dihedral> huma, offerhim something shiny
14:43:21 <SpComb> height level's messed up and random roads
14:43:24 <huma> i got a shiny sea shell :)
14:43:41 <TrueBrain> foundations => sea :)
14:43:46 <SpComb> ok, it does it fairly often
14:43:51 <TrueBrain> SpComb: don't click too fast ;)
14:43:57 <TrueBrain> it doesn't protect that yet
14:44:12 <TrueBrain> oh, server crashed ;)
14:44:20 * SpComb clicks as fast as he can
14:44:43 <SpComb> now it's just looping the same piece of terrain over and over
14:44:43 <huma> don't plug it to your brain :)
14:45:17 <SpComb> TrueBrain: nor is it mouse-draggable
14:46:30 <TrueBrain> now let's see if we can make a bus moving ;)
14:47:11 <dihedral> just make is static and read save games :_D
14:49:08 <TrueBrain> huma: don't click too fast ;)
14:51:00 <huma> what's you server set up?
14:51:01 <SpComb> and depending on how you define "too fast", it happens even if you don't
14:51:01 <TrueBrain> I cna't design and show you guys both at the same time :)
14:51:14 <SpComb> huma: last time I looked, it was a python script
14:51:37 <huma> he doesn't want to show the code :(
14:52:18 <dihedral> huma: let him, if it makes hem feel like something special
14:56:02 <TrueBrain> and I do feel special :)
14:56:24 <TrueBrain> I have a FLYING BUS! :p
14:56:51 <SpComb> it's already better than normal OpenTTD
15:05:48 <huma> you don't have arctic.. it's useless without it
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16:47:59 <yorick> what happened to the master server?
16:49:22 <yorick> serverlist was almost empty
16:49:59 <yorick> still less than useual
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16:55:53 <Belugas> ho... an incoming Maedhros :)
17:11:03 <Maedhros> yeah, although maybe StationType -> ST would be clearer? (unless that already exists, of course :)
17:12:20 <Belugas> i'm pretty sure it does, but... ok, i'll make them a little more self-explanatory
17:12:48 * Belugas noticed the magic number whle working with DaleStan earlier today
17:13:51 <Maedhros> don't try too hard - it's pretty clear already :)
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17:18:00 * Maedhros waits impatiently for some of his calculations to finish
17:18:22 <Maedhros> although two have been going since friday, so i'm not holding out much hope for them ^_^
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17:20:53 <Belugas> ? decrypting some national security files ? ;)
17:21:53 <Maedhros> haha, no, molecular modelling :)
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17:25:03 <Belugas> cannot get more explanatory than this ^_^
17:25:04 <Wolf01> :O i'm connected i'm connected!!!!
17:25:40 <Wolf01> i've serious dsl problems
17:25:58 <Wolf01> and oftc took 15 minutes to connect
17:26:54 <Belugas> i was disconnected myself for close the same amount of time
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17:33:07 <Wolf01> enough, specially when this happen every night
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17:57:08 <Belugas> i feel dizzy my all those connect/reconnections :S
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18:02:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11363 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Remove some magical numbers
18:03:33 <BigBB> Belugas, if you want to remove magic numbers, get FS1383 . Only a few lines :D
18:04:07 <skidd13> BigBB: the patch is nice, but damned huge
18:04:54 <BigBB> I know, but I thought it's better to find all and don't make a half work ;(
18:05:54 <skidd13> I read about 5 min. It's not complicated, but on such patches you have to care about things more cause your mind tends to overread things. ;)
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18:06:47 <Belugas> and yes, it is on my list :)
18:07:20 <Belugas> problem, i'm at work, with very limited means of deving
18:07:47 <Belugas> i can work on my own stuff, but i cannot patch (for whatever the reason) nor compile
18:08:03 <Belugas> and i cannot drink coffee since my mug is empty
18:08:38 <skidd13> Advice your secretary to fill it up :D
18:16:26 <Ailure> I mess around too much when bored
18:17:10 <dihedral> i bet there is nothing else to those tracks :-)
18:17:31 <Ailure> it wasn't even a real game
18:17:38 <Ailure> someone said doubledecker bridge on the forums
18:17:43 <Ailure> and I just had to try it out
18:18:02 * Belugas has a new fresh and hot big mug of smelly coffee
18:18:04 <Ailure> even if that's technically not really a bridge below, but a "landbridge"
18:19:31 <skidd13> Belugas: a cup of good tea does wonders too (and it doesn't agitate the drinker so much ;) )
18:19:32 <dihedral> bridge over bridge would be cool
18:19:50 <dihedral> skidd13: pgTips over here :-)
18:20:36 <Belugas> tried, reverted to coffee. but thanks for advice
18:21:09 <skidd13> I'm a pourist. (The only thing that gets into my tea/coffee is a bit of brown suggar)
18:22:12 <BigBB> tea, ice tea, Long Island Iced Tea
18:22:22 <Belugas> How can you taste so good?
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18:23:56 <Prof_Frink> PG Tips? Yorkshire Tea!
18:24:59 <skidd13> Earl Grey from Ronefeldt (IIRC). Quite simple but tasty
18:28:23 <dihedral> Prof_Frink: i do prefer fair trade tea
18:28:33 <dihedral> makes even PG Tips taste like soap
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18:54:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11364 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11363): compilation broken
19:02:17 <BiA|pavel-css> i ma just compiling 11364 :P
19:08:02 <dihedral> TrueBrain: how likely would it be that the track sharing patch of yours could become included (as an optional patch setting)...?
19:08:58 <Belugas> didn't he said never?
19:09:13 <dihedral> i cannot remember... :-S
19:10:04 <Rubidium> dihedral: check the logs, but you'll find what Belugas said
19:14:07 <dihedral> just slap me next time i ask something that i have already asked :-P
19:14:33 <dihedral> and before you start slapping me now - let me emphasis "next time"...
19:15:05 <Belugas> don't worry, dihedral, it is getting an habit to repeat ourselves ;)
19:15:35 <dihedral> i hope that means that others ask the same questions too :-)
19:16:08 <yorick> like: "when will 0.6.0 be done?", "when it's done!"
19:16:32 <dihedral> oh - i thought a month after that....
19:17:34 <yorick> you really LIKE to get slapped?
19:18:24 <dihedral> sometimes i just ask for it
19:18:31 * yorick pops down the farm, grabs a Shetland Pony and slaps dihedral with it!
19:18:43 <yorick> "[20:14] <dihedral> just slap me next time i ask something that i have already asked :-P"
19:19:06 <dihedral> i am not quite sure what of my previous lines you consider a question....
19:19:17 <yorick> "[20:16] <dihedral> oh - i thought a month after that...."
19:19:28 <dihedral> and where is that a question?
19:19:34 <yorick> you asked to get slapped
19:19:42 <yorick> and you asked that before :P
19:19:54 <dihedral> 20:19 < dihedral> that is a statement
19:20:47 <dihedral> clearly can be rocognized by the missing questionmark at the end of the line...
19:21:12 <yorick> you're asking again... :-)
19:22:01 <dihedral> dots (.) are not questionmarks (?)
19:22:42 <yorick> you don't want it to look as if you want to be slapped
19:23:16 <dihedral> discussion breaker :-P
19:23:42 <Barry> Does anybody here has Google Earth on his computer and can you give me a hand with it?
19:24:13 <huma> mine doesn't work with current fglrx drivers
19:24:30 <yorick> use your scroll weel(middle mouse button) for zooming
19:25:03 <Barry> Yorick I need to download 2 dem cells for a heightmap but can't install GE here :-(
19:25:38 <yorick> I don't have it either
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20:46:30 <Galamantyl> I'm looking for a challenging server to play on. One that supports hard map settings and competition.
20:46:35 <Galamantyl> I can't seem to find one.
20:47:38 * dihedral holds his hands in front of his eyes again
20:48:03 <huma> dihedral: hey, where did you go?
20:48:37 <huma> i think i've seen it somewhere..
20:48:37 <LeviathNL> I have a little question about linux, I want to make a link in /usr/bin/ to ~/openttd/bin/openttd. But somehow when I run it complains about missing grf's (also 2ccmap.grf etc) and lang-files. Can anybody help me?
20:49:17 * dihedral takes down his hands...
20:49:59 <huma> LeviathNL: why would you want to do that?
20:50:51 <huma> somebody tell Galamantyl about the servers
20:51:02 <LeviathNL> so I can launch openttd easier and because I want to know if it is possible:)
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20:51:56 <Ammler> or editing the makefile?
20:51:58 <Rubidium> LeviathNL: echo -en '#!/bin/bash\ncd ~/openttd\nmake run' > /usr/bin/openttd && chmod a+x /usr/bin/openttd
20:52:21 <Galamantyl> I'm starting to worry that there might not be a challenging server, and everyone just plays on flatlands with trains by themselves. :\
20:52:57 <huma> Galamantyl: right, why would we need any competition
20:52:59 <Ammler> Galamantyl: dihedral should do one, but I don't know why? :)
20:53:01 <Rubidium> ./configure --data-dir=/home/leviath/openttd/bin/data
20:53:19 <Galamantyl> Because it's fun. Kinda the point of multiplayer.
20:53:38 <dihedral> do a competition server?
20:53:47 <dihedral> yeah - thinking about that
20:54:07 <dihedral> last tim ei 'activly' thought about it was 2 1/2 weeks ago
20:54:11 <Galamantyl> I hosted a game but nobody joined.
20:54:20 <Ammler> then he had something else to do :)
20:54:25 <dihedral> just before some funny swiss dude came up to me on irc and started mentioneing more_clients patch
20:54:43 <dihedral> which kinda got me distracted
20:55:20 <dihedral> and since the even is over, i am still a little sleepy, as i have not really managed to get to bed early enough to catchup with just a minor lack of sleep
20:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos ketchup...
20:58:31 <dihedral> you cut your finger off, which made you think of some freddy krueger movies, which made you think of ketchup?
20:59:11 <LeviathNL> Rubidium, somehow make gets in a loop :/
20:59:45 <huma> LeviathNL: kill the link you made first :)
21:04:20 <LeviathNL> Thank you Rubidium now it works. I also didn't know 'make run', very handy.
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21:38:19 <Galamantyl> Is using airports considered... um... cheap?
21:38:34 <Wolf01> yes, since you make a lot of money
21:38:45 <Galamantyl> I've tried using them before, and while I was able to make a lot of money, the initial investment was hard to get
21:39:19 <Galamantyl> If you mess with land to make room for them, you can't build the airport
21:39:46 <Galamantyl> I was only able to make 3 last game I played, and they were in cities that didn't hate me.
21:40:39 <fjb> Build the first airport on flat land. :-)
21:40:57 <Galamantyl> I usually play on mountainous settings tho
21:41:12 <Wolf01> start with little airports
21:41:30 <LeviathNL> that's why one of the reasons I'd like to see passengers-destination ins trunk in the future, that way you can make a big airport somewhere and transport passengers from surrounding cities to it by train/train/whatever...
21:41:53 <fjb> Then it is an bit harder. But there should be flat land at the mountain tops near some cities.
21:41:57 <Galamantyl> Well, I don't fully understand why there's such a ridiculous amount of passengers in this game
21:42:04 <Galamantyl> In regular TTD, I don't recall it being this huge
21:43:08 <fjb> Btw, did the habdling of openttd.cfg change in the last nightly builds?
21:44:40 <Wolf01> question: if the running cost says "€380.000" why is the vehicle losing "€450.000" at year?
21:45:41 <Rubidium> that's "someone" who does not understand/read about the transfer system
21:46:39 <fjb> Between r11336 and r11362 i think. When I change the NewGRF setting in the start screen they do not get changed in openttd.cgf.
21:47:39 <fjb> The timestamp of openttd.cfg chenges.
21:48:03 <fjb> But the [newgrf] section does not.
21:48:16 <fjb> When does it write to the openttd.cfg?
21:48:48 <Ammler> if you don't start with -x
21:48:54 <Rubidium> fjb: can you pinpoint a more specific version?
21:50:05 <LeviathNL> how many grf do you have loaded?
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21:51:41 <fjb> No, sorry. Maybe it was even earlier without me noticing it. I used r11336 the last game. Today I copiled r11362 and started a new game. I changed the NewGRF settings in the start screen and generated a new game.
21:52:10 <dihedral> when you quit or run saveconfig
21:53:49 <Rubidium> fjb: I meant that you tried some of the other revisions (between 11336 and 11362) and checked whether those work
21:54:05 <fjb> I just started OpenTTD a few minutes ago and wanted to generade a second game with the same sttings as the game from this morning. And the NewGRF settings were gone
21:54:53 <fjb> I just wanted to ask first if the behavior changed and I just mised that.
21:54:56 <Ammler> fjb: possible, you have more then one revision
21:57:45 <glx> fjb: works as intended for me
21:57:51 <fjb> Hm, no, but I now I think I know waht happened. Maybei I started a second instance while another of the game was running. And I happened then. I can not reproduce it now. Now the openttd.cfg get properly updated. Strange.
21:58:35 <fjb> Must have been a kind of race condition.
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21:59:36 <fjb> Sorry for stealing your time.
22:04:40 <fjb> Oh, while changing the setting in the start sreen, one of the planes of the background game crashed.
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22:09:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11365 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1288]: when stopping a ship or aircraft, set their speed to 0 so they won't continue at the speed where they were stopped at.
22:13:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11366 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1258]: road vehicles must not drive through eachother on bridges/in tunnels.
22:15:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11367 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1258]: non-articulated road vehicles should be able to overtake (not-too-long) articulated vehicles, i.e. overtaking of articulated vehicles that are several (3+) tiles long is not supported.
22:17:16 <Bjarni> I don't think that was the intended meaning of that line :/
22:17:26 <fjb> I saw articulated raod vehicles kind of passing through each other at a road crossing.
22:17:54 <Galamantyl> How do I sack a company from my server?
22:18:13 <Galamantyl> Like... Delete, removed...
22:18:31 <glx> reset_company or something like that
22:21:40 <fjb> LeviathNL: Yes, like that.
22:23:45 <fjb> I hope there will be more articulates sets soon. They look great. I would like articulated trucks and busses.
22:25:15 <fjb> Are the road and the rail bridges different sets?
22:26:01 <LeviathNL> IIRC LV5 will have articulated vehicles, but George priority seems ECS now.
22:27:28 <fjb> I read that once. And he is really busy on ECS. Somebody talked about a german vehicle set. That couls be interesting too.
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22:31:18 <fjb> Indeed. And it has some very interesting trucks.
22:31:57 <fjb> I should learn more nfo...
22:34:58 <fjb> I just loaded Georges new machinery vector. The new vehicles factory look great.
22:35:02 <LeviathNL> Question to the devs, will passenger destinations be included once finished? Or does is change gameplay too much?
22:36:52 <LeviathNL> that factory is huge :o
22:37:28 <fjb> I would vote for general cargo destinations. But I fear that would be very cpu consuming.
22:38:09 <fjb> Yes, the factory is huge. And you can build a road or railroad betwenn the two parts.
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22:41:59 <fjb> But why do Georges industries carry glass in bags? Is that usual in russia? :-)
22:42:46 <skidd13> fjb: A bit late or are you frisian?
22:43:12 <LeviathNL> I have this problem with ECS Town Vector but find it strange I'v heard no one else about it. If I build a station near a Tourist Centre it does not accept Tourist or anything.
22:44:33 <fjb> No, not really, but I was studiing in the harz mountains (Technische Universitt Claustha). And every student said "moin". Don't know who began that tradition there, must have been a frisien.
22:45:13 <Galamantyl> how do I send a private message to someone in-game?
22:45:29 <fjb> Hm, I once hat the same problem. But the production of that center was low. Maybe that was the reason.
22:46:08 <fjb> Tefad: No, only "moin" survived. :-)
22:48:58 <skidd13> fjb: Now that you say it, it seems to be common between students.
22:49:14 <skidd13> At university I use that too ;)
22:49:30 <fjb> I'm tempted to build a short railroad between the two parts of the new vehicle factory, with a depot at each end a a shunter locomotive running between them.
22:50:16 <fjb> "Usual" people in Clauthal are saying "Glck auf". :-)
22:55:04 <Tefad> skidd13: if you wrote that, there's some english problems
22:56:42 <skidd13> Tefad: Yup I wrote that, and as I'm note native english, there are some probably. Correct it as you like
22:58:00 <LeviathNL> fjb, how do you get the production rate of a centre higher? I can't deliver anything to it.
22:59:20 <fjb> LeviathNL: I didn't find out yet. Just gave it up with that tourist center. In another game tourist centers were working, but have the feeling that they are not bug free yet.
23:00:33 <Tefad> there's a double negative, i'll try to write it as i understand your meaning: "That does NOT mean you should write cryptic highly optimized code. You should always care about performance but keep in mind that you are not the only person has to understand the code."
23:01:34 <Tefad> or perhaps "cryptically optimized" something.
23:02:24 <LeviathNL> I'll decode the Town-vector tomorrow and maybe, just maybe I might understand it a bit better :)
23:03:03 <skidd13> Tefad: optimised but cryptic
23:04:29 * fjb doesn't understand enough nfo yet.
23:05:19 <Belugas> LeviathNL, try using grf2html. it helps A LOT understanding nfo
23:05:37 <Belugas> and i really mean ... like... a BIG BIG LOT
23:06:04 <Maarten> will 0.6.0 come with a number of new industries/cargos by default, or will they always remain a newgrf that needs to be added to the game?
23:06:52 <dihedral> Maarten: why dont you check out the #openttdcoop grf pack?
23:07:51 <fjb> My wine doesn't like me. And FreePascal doesn't compile grf2html either. It depends too much on the Windows UI.
23:08:29 <Maarten> That doesn't answer the question though :P - just wondering what and IF anything will be included by default in 0.6.0, I will keep my servers running the original version of the game without any grfs
23:09:31 <glx> then you won't have anything new
23:11:28 <LeviathNL> indeed fpc fails compiling grf2html :( any tips on getting it to work Belugas?
23:11:36 <Tefad> skidd13: awkward wording. trying to fix: "To some people it, working with unneeded variable copies seems to provide better readability."
23:12:45 <skidd13> Hmm. Some people like to introduce copys of variables to increas readability?
23:14:17 <skidd13> Tefad: But that sentence miss the tendancy that this behavior is bad.
23:14:29 <Tefad> it is followed by one that makes it clear
23:14:51 <fjb> I have to take a vcloser look at nfo. It look like a full featured virtual risc machine.
23:15:36 <Tefad> you could replace the following sentence with this clause: ", which wastes memory."
23:15:56 <Tefad> clause, phrase, whatever. it's been a while since grammar lessons
23:18:09 <Tefad> i'm poking around on the wiki btw
23:18:23 <Tefad> i'm not mentioning the minor changes
23:18:42 <skidd13> I've to catch a few hours of sleep. good night
23:18:46 <Tefad> and as it's a wiki you can always fix it the way you want to : )
23:18:53 <Tefad> check it when you get a chance, i'll to my best on my own.
23:19:31 <LeviathNL> wine grf2html.exe does a good job
23:20:25 <fjb> My wine doesn't like me. It always complains about missing libraries.
23:20:38 <Tefad> wine never has a problem here : \
23:20:48 <Tefad> libraries.. you mean dll's within windows?
23:22:41 <fjb> Lokks like it needs some dlls from Windows.
23:23:14 <Tefad> some programs rely on language runtime dll's that don't come with wine
23:23:21 <Tefad> such as mscvrt6 or similar
23:23:38 <Tefad> sometimes you can find a program that installs a bunch of these buggers
23:24:13 <LeviathNL> There is this one site that has many dll's. Is almost first result.
23:24:38 <Sacro> Tefad: there is a tool for wine that will do that for you
23:25:26 <Belugas> grf2html is made for Delphi, LeviathNL. fpc support is not yet added
23:25:34 <Tefad> Sacro: meh, my wine still has dcom98 installed : x
23:25:45 <LeviathNL> wine did a great job with the w32 build
23:26:23 <fjb> Ok, I will update wine again and see if it still complains.
23:27:09 <Belugas> Maarten, i gave you the answer.NOTHING will be included. You proposed two choices, i told you that the later (or the second one or the last choice) was the right one.
23:27:17 <Belugas> what more did you wish me to add???
23:27:26 <fjb> How are people writing nfo code? Does everybody write the hex codes?
23:28:15 <Belugas> fjb, it depends. some are using grfmaker, some are using notepad or another text editor
23:29:21 <LeviathNL> i did some small things just in gedit with ttdpatch wiki and a hex<->convert applet open in firefox
23:29:37 <LeviathNL> * hex<->bin converter
23:29:43 <Belugas> fjb, search grfmaker on tt-forums
23:33:06 <LeviathNL> are these "@@BEAUTIFY ..." ActionC comments in Georges code of any use or just comments ?
23:36:39 <Belugas> fjb, i did my new town replacement by hand too, with a text editor.
23:36:49 <Belugas> much work in deed, but much rewards too
23:36:53 <fjb> I found some screen shots of grfmaker. Looks easy for the beginner. But is it limiting for the advanced grf creator?
23:37:18 <Belugas> it is limited in the sens it is not up to date with today's feature
23:37:35 <Belugas> plus, youhave to understand what you're doing before using grfmaker
23:37:44 <Belugas> otherwise, you will screw up big time.
23:38:26 <fjb> You should always know what you are doing. A gui doens't help anything when you don't know, what you are doing.
23:38:51 <glx> if only everybody was like you :)
23:39:41 <TrueBrain> Belugas: where btw is the source of grf2html?
23:40:02 <LeviathNL> svn://dumbledore.zernebok.com/projects/grf2html
23:40:27 <fjb> I have seen it too often. Skilled admins get fired because the new server has a gui. The bosses think because of the gui every idiot can keep it running and secure. :-(
23:41:02 <Belugas> you will like it, TrueBrain, it's a command line tool ^_^
23:41:28 <TrueBrain> of course, my dear Watson
23:41:48 <fjb> My new wine realle starts grf2html, but it seams to be very slow.
23:42:31 <fjb> wine: Unhandled exception 0x0eedfade at address 0xffffffe8:0x7e22f2c8 (thread 0009), starting debugger...
23:42:35 <glx> depends on the grf you are decoding
23:42:52 <TrueBrain> now that is bad, at least wine should be able to run it ;)
23:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i had to downgrade my wine to get civ4 running
23:43:35 <fjb> The unhandled exeptions doesn't look good. It is still running, but takes 100% cpu time.
23:44:03 * fjb thinks civ4 looks too much candy colored.
23:44:44 <BigBB> fjb, you can change the look
23:45:37 <fjb> I have only seen screen shot and stayed with civ3.
23:46:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i tried to play the final frontier mod (where you are in space) but it crashes after a rather short time
23:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: honestly, you are an idiot if you judge a game by a screenshot...
23:46:39 <Belugas> or by the cover of the box!
23:46:42 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: it depends if you plan to buy it ;)
23:46:52 <BigBB> in civ4 can you change almost everything
23:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, what i saw of the mods was amazing
23:47:35 <BigBB> the final frontier is a good example :)
23:48:26 <fjb> I could only judge it on the screen shots without buying it.
23:48:33 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: yeah, that's why there are usually demo versions of games
23:49:18 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yup :)
23:50:07 * Belugas cries! He has forgotten his SD card at work :(
23:50:57 <LeviathNL> good night TrueBrain
23:51:25 *** NukeBuster has left #openttd
23:51:40 <glx> LeviathNL: 0A is for news messages
23:52:05 <fjb> grf2html is not working with wine here. It gives that exception, eats 100% cpu time and stay at 0% html.
23:52:31 <LeviathNL> glx can you give an example when they are different?
23:53:01 <Belugas> yeah... again... the consequences of running away from the ofice before anyone asks YET ANOTHER STUPID QUESTION
23:54:00 <LeviathNL> how do you combine running away from stupid questions and being on irc :P?
23:54:08 <Belugas> well... looks like i will have to wait until tomorrow to finsh action00 industr prop 24 :(
23:54:41 <Belugas> LeviathNL, sometimes, they are quite the same, but i was referring to the questions my colleagues keep on asking me ;)
23:54:55 <glx> LeviathNL: prop 0B always has a number before it
23:56:11 <LeviathNL> prop 24 ACtion0Inustries is not on the ttdpatch wiki :s?
23:59:37 <Belugas> it's a work in progress.
23:59:51 <Belugas> a commun effort, that is :)
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