IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-10-28
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00:00:34 <glx> but change the subject ;)
00:01:15 <glx> and be patient for the reply
00:01:42 *** ThePizzaKing has joined #openttd
00:02:35 <glx> you'll have a lot of work to update greek language :)
00:02:40 * Ouranogrammi had an astral projection and saw transport tycoon
00:05:29 <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by miham :: r9286 /trunk/src/lang (20 files in 2 dirs) (2007-03-18 19:00:27 UTC)
00:05:30 <DorpsGek> glx: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-03-18 19:56:07
00:05:31 <DorpsGek> glx: american - 10 fixed by WhiteRabbit (10)
00:05:32 <DorpsGek> glx: brazilian_portuguese - 7 fixed by fukumori (7)
00:05:33 <DorpsGek> glx: bulgarian - 12 fixed by thetitan (12)
00:05:34 <DorpsGek> glx: catalan - 3 fixed by arnaullv (3)
00:05:35 <DorpsGek> glx: czech - 8 fixed by Hadez (8)
00:05:36 <DorpsGek> glx: dutch - 8 fixed by habell (8)
00:05:37 <DorpsGek> glx: french - 3 fixed by glx (3)
00:05:38 <DorpsGek> glx: greek - 80 fixed by thanoulas (80)
00:05:39 <DorpsGek> glx: italian - 7 fixed, 7 changed by sidew (6), bluesboy84 (8)
00:05:40 <DorpsGek> glx: japanese - 11 fixed by PouncingAnt (2), ickoonite (9)
00:05:41 <DorpsGek> glx: korean - 3 fixed by darkttd (3)
00:05:42 <DorpsGek> glx: norwegian_nynorsk - 6 fixed by pollux (6)
00:05:43 <DorpsGek> glx: polish - 7 fixed by meush (7)
00:05:44 <DorpsGek> glx: russian - 9 fixed, 1 changed by DarkFenX (10)
00:05:45 <DorpsGek> glx: slovak - 10 fixed by lengyel (10)
00:05:46 <DorpsGek> glx: slovenian - 6 fixed by Necrolyte (6)
00:05:47 <DorpsGek> glx: spanish - 9 fixed by eusebio (9)
00:05:48 <DorpsGek> glx: swedish - 9 fixed by daishan (9)
00:05:49 <DorpsGek> glx: traditional_chinese - 6 fixed, 4 changed by thomasau (10)
00:05:50 <DorpsGek> glx: ukrainian - 9 fixed by mad (9)
00:06:40 <Ouranogrammi> i asked to start a greek translation some yrs ago
00:06:48 <Ouranogrammi> but utf8 wasn't supported back then
00:07:10 <Ouranogrammi> i have to catch up with thanoulas
00:10:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> what happened to "(10 lines omitted)"?
00:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> someone remind me next time to start in 1925
00:14:32 <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: next time start in 1925 :)
00:16:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> hmzz... normal rail should be half the width of a station
00:19:42 <Thiniad> where can i get GRFmaker
00:21:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> because there are no useful engines in 1920
00:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i do hope that gets fixed in dbset 0.9
00:22:58 <fjb> Hm, the first engines are usefull, at least they are affordable.
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00:30:06 <Bjarni> I found a bug. I can't type ö in the game
00:30:24 <Bjarni> I mean the character is there, but when I press they key combo all I get is o
00:31:19 <Bjarni> I wonder how we survived this long without it... what a major bug :P
00:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> this was even worse in the original game, äöü were treated as some kind of command characters, you could not input them at all
00:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, it works for me, too
00:35:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> must be an OSX issue
00:35:38 <Bjarni> or an issue with a Danish keyboard
00:36:35 <Bjarni> when I noticed in the game a bunch of other people started writing this damn char
00:37:38 <glx> now the question is how to type it on a french keyboard using danish layout :)
00:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> on the german layout, ö is next to l
00:39:11 <glx> on french layout it's ¨ followed by o
00:39:44 <Bjarni> it's the same on a Danish keyboard
00:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't have a ¨ key
00:40:20 <Bjarni> ¨ is right of å on a mac keyboard
00:41:40 <Bjarni> so does it work ingame?
00:42:39 <Bjarni> then it's a cocoa driver issue :(
00:43:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> it might be an utf-8 issue
00:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> because ö has two possible unicode representation
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00:43:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> once as "ö" and once as "o¨"
00:44:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> OSX might send the second version, and somewher on the way it just discards the ¨
00:45:11 <glx> hmm console key is ½ when typing in my irc client but it's oe in openttd
00:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> i am in serious need of PBS... especially in the mountains
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00:51:37 <Bjarni> I don't have a half key
00:51:43 <Bjarni> I do have the key though
00:52:13 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: You have the source. Implement PBS and be our hero. :-)
00:52:39 <Bjarni> implement it in a working state
00:52:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> ½ is AltGr+5 here
00:52:55 <Bjarni> not just reimplement the buggy design we used to have
00:54:06 <Bjarni> you can't beat that :P
00:54:45 <fjb> In a way where you don't need that stupid signals at the end of the switches.
00:57:50 <Bjarni> while we are at it you can figure out a way so we can get trains that will not stop instantly
00:58:05 <Bjarni> I expect you to be done by tomorrow morning
01:01:22 <fjb> Why do trains stop instantly? I was told trains in TTD are not able to brake. :-)
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01:03:05 <bruce89> free hours for everyone
01:04:58 <ThePizzaKing> What, not for everyone, you got our extra hour
01:06:36 <fjb> No need to set clocks: ntp :-)
01:06:49 <bruce89> ntp and tzdata for me
01:07:07 <glx> tell it to my phone, and my vcr
01:08:00 <bruce89> even my N800 switched
01:08:14 <bruce89> ThePizzaKing: when did your hour get lost?
01:09:10 <glx> mine is just an alcatel OT511
01:09:37 <ThePizzaKing> I woke up at 9:30, then I suddenly realised it was really 10:30 now
01:09:40 <bruce89> not just there obviously
01:10:04 <fjb> My handy switched, and it uses Windows... :-)
01:10:28 <glx> my PC did it by itself too (XP powered)
01:10:40 <bruce89> intlclock broke though
01:17:08 * |fjb| hates when his ip number changes.
01:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> ThePizzaKing: it's so funny, because i have an additional hour
01:18:09 <bruce89> southern hemisphere lose an hour, we win one
01:20:04 <Thiniad> whats more practical now? doing 32bpp graphic (since we can use that now in ottd) or 8bpp (since its simpler and faster and some like classic graphic lol)?
01:22:02 <glx> 32bpp are just "replacement" sprites
01:22:47 <Thiniad> but for newbie like me is better to start with simple newgrf
01:24:45 <Thiniad> i found newgrf tutorial on ttdpatch wiki, should i use that?
01:25:54 <Thiniad> i read there about tool grfmaker but i cant find it to download, anyone know where i can get that
01:28:39 <Thiniad> i got grfcodec,grfwizard,nfoeditor, something else?
01:29:27 <Thiniad> in what program should i draw sprites?
01:29:40 <BigBB> you need only grfcodec(.exe)
01:31:08 <BigBB> maybe MSpaint and irvanview to translate the bmp to pcx
01:31:26 <BigBB> but only for simple sprites
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01:31:52 <Thiniad> adobe? i have corel graphic suite X3, irfanview im using constantly
01:31:57 <BigBB> or a free version of photoshop: .net paint
01:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... it's the 2nd 2:30 already...
01:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> i should go to bed...
01:35:07 <BigBB> I don't know jdraw and it's support for 'moving' sprites
01:35:54 <Tefad> f you are looking for Paint.NET, the best free photo editing software for Windows have they not heard of the GIMP ?
01:36:49 <Tefad> seriously, if you're going to claim to be the best.. shove it.
01:38:56 <BigBB> the gimp version for windows isn't as good as the version for linux. The linux version is perfekt, but for windows...
01:39:29 <Tefad> so run it from Interix ?
01:41:24 <BigBB> for me, I use paint.net in windows and gimp on linux ...
01:43:57 <Thiniad> i've downloaded both jdraw and paint.net so i'll experiment a bit
01:45:08 <Thiniad> whatever pops in my mind, that has a purpose and place in ottd
01:45:58 <bruce89> Interix promotion again, goodness
01:45:58 <Thiniad> i've been thinking about some town structures and vehicles (helicopter for example)
01:47:20 * fjb ist transportating fish by helicopter. :-)
01:47:23 <BigBB> for town structures it's mspaint enough (for the most sprites)
01:48:13 <BigBB> you need only more if you made (or edit) 'moving' sprites
01:48:16 <Thiniad> got it all, if i miss something ill download, internet is a god
01:48:28 <fjb> I have a city where two bus stops have the same name. Is that usual or something to worry about?
01:49:02 <BigBB> fjb, have you edit one of these two bus stopes
01:50:19 <fjb> Yes, two labels with the same name.
01:50:35 <fjb> nd they are not close to each other.
01:50:39 <glx> then one has been set "by hand"
01:50:58 <BigBB> if there is a station name like "north york" possible and you edit one station to this name it is possible that two stations have the same name (one you edit and one generated)
01:51:25 <glx> easy to check: rename the town
01:51:50 <fjb> Hm, maybe I edited one of the labels. But that was long before I build the second bus stop.
01:52:36 <BigBB> and? Anyway it's possible.
01:53:02 <fjb> If I rename the city both change their name.
01:53:02 <glx> generated names and hand-made names are not checked for duplicate
01:53:48 <glx> <fjb> If I rename the city both change their name. <-- that's weird, means they both have generated name
01:54:23 <fjb> I should better rename one, I guess. :-9
01:54:47 <glx> anyway the game doesn't care the name
01:55:13 <glx> it's just a cosmetic thing for the user
01:55:31 <fjb> One was only a railway station and the bus stop was added later.
01:55:45 <BigBB> maybe to extend the possible station names?
01:56:42 <BigBB> I write a patch if you don't want (but find the idea good :) )
01:56:51 <fjb> The city has only 15 stations.
01:57:09 <glx> well we already have "town #x" IIRC
01:57:49 <fjb> Where is north on the map?
01:57:50 <glx> fjb: try another language just to see what happens
01:58:07 <BigBB> yes, but only a definednumber of possible stations
01:58:35 <fjb> Oh, they have different names if I change the language.
01:59:27 <fjb> BigBB: But the map looks like tilted by 45...
02:00:19 <BigBB> up: north; right: east; down: south; left: west
02:00:47 <BigBB> up-right == north-east and so on
02:01:28 <BigBB> theres an png from oskar, but I don't know the address atm
02:02:10 <BigBB> fjb, I need this specified direction for my shore patch :)
02:02:40 <fjb> Ah, ok, there it is really important.
02:03:09 <fjb> Ups, thw trams just crossed through each other. Lokked dangerous.
02:03:44 <fjb> BigBB: Is that patch relatet to rvers too?
02:04:44 <BigBB> and then I make the new flooding
02:05:07 <glx> <BigBB> yes, but only a definednumber of possible stations <-- no because you can have an "unlimited" town #x stations
02:05:10 <BigBB> and then (maybe) I make rivers
02:05:16 <fjb> Hm, do GRFs explicitly specify the vehicle ids they are using?
02:05:50 <fjb> BigBB: Please make canals over bridges. :-)
02:06:19 <BigBB> glx, yes, but the game make only a defined number of stations. only if you edit one (or more) stations you can have more
02:07:16 <BigBB> fjb, first get the shore patch into trunk ... but make a new threat whith water problems and I will see :)
02:07:48 <BigBB> fjb, problems AND suggestions
02:08:13 <glx> 24 + 9 buoys + as many #x you want
02:08:48 <BigBB> right, but you must edit one if you want to add a new
02:09:53 <BigBB> I only play nightlys, I feel sry
02:14:42 <Ammller> how do you know screen? We started a server in screen, it does still run, but the screen now hangs (after half day)
02:15:14 <BigBB> I know, but asking don't cost anything
02:15:36 <glx> are you sure it's not ssh Ammler?
02:16:34 <Ammller> we "fixed" if with "redisplay"
02:17:03 <BigBB> glx: can I ask you about a patch what I want to make (a gui patch)?
02:17:53 <glx> and I'm watching anime now
02:18:22 <Thiniad> someone watch anime?!
02:19:01 <BigBB> glx: okay :) which dev can I ask?
02:20:54 <BigBB> the day is not basic, I can wait. I want to know which dev is competent for GOI things ... :D
02:21:23 <glx> we all know how gui works
02:22:10 <BigBB> that mean, I can ask you (tomorrow or some days else ...)
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02:23:02 <BigBB> I want to make a signal gui ... and I prefer to know what you want to integrate in it ...
02:23:34 <glx> well there are already some signal gui patches
02:23:56 <BigBB> I don't want to make a redif of Hackykid's version. I want to make a completely new version.
02:25:00 <glx> we are not signal gui fans
02:26:43 <BigBB> I know, Hackykid's version isn't very good, but signal guis generally ?
02:26:44 <glx> I don't see the need for a signal gui
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02:28:30 <BigBB> Okay, I prefer a gui to build the signal what you want (normal, pre, ...) directly. the gui can have a look simular to that of TTDp
02:31:20 <glx> you'll need to modify commands too
02:32:22 <BigBB> yes, that is why I ask 'you' what you prefferd :)
02:33:55 <glx> it at least needs to be MP safe
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02:55:47 <BigBB> glx, what do you prefer: a gui like ttdp that only appear if you already build a signal or a gui which will be shown befor you build a signal (or anything else).
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03:06:31 <glx> BigBB: as I said, I'm not very in need for a signal gui
03:06:47 <glx> better ask potential users what they prefer
03:08:51 <BigBB> okay, I start a forum thread ?!
03:08:53 <fjb> The signal gui in ChrisIN usually annoys me.
03:09:51 <BigBB> fjb, yes, the signal gui from Hackykid isn't the best
03:10:30 <BigBB> fjb, sa what you want for a signal gui, please:
03:11:03 <Thiniad> is there a screenshot of that signal gui in ttdp
03:11:43 * fjb doesn't need a signal gui.
03:12:42 <fjb> I'm much faster just holding down the ctrl-key ant klicking once again. I have to click more than once at a signal anyway.
03:18:58 <Thiniad> some of them have two lights, thats something new. in my opinion it would be best to create a new signal menu, like landscape menu, and there put all kinds of signal with tooltip (what each signal does), it would give more reality in game. you might make as a patch so users could have or not a menu
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03:24:14 <BigBB> Thiniad, do you mean the PBS two lights?
03:25:05 <BigBB> Thiniad, this is why TTDP have PBS signals, OTTD but not.
03:25:36 <Thiniad> so thats PBS signals, whats so special about them?
03:26:47 <BigBB> about the signals: nothing. About PBS: much, but this have nothing to do with a signal gui :)
03:28:38 <Thiniad> enlighten me please - what is gui?
03:29:11 <BigBB> a graphical interface whith that you can make an input
03:29:49 <Thiniad> and you want gui in which you could choose between various signals
03:30:28 <Thiniad> do you have PBS in ottd code?
03:30:54 <Thiniad> or you want only regular signals in that gui
03:31:20 <BigBB> The signals now are possible
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03:32:12 <BigBB> now you have 8 different signals ...
03:32:49 <BigBB> for the reason that pbs will be intregated you have 16 different signals...
03:33:41 <Thiniad> that it would be difficult and frustrating to change signals through ctrl + click
03:34:24 <BigBB> That is why I preffered a GUI :)
03:35:12 <Thiniad> and to implement signal gui in ottd you need to do what exactly
03:35:38 <BigBB> to know what the community and devs want
03:36:34 <BigBB> I have personally no problem to make a gui, but it must be accepted
03:36:46 <Thiniad> normally although you need to create graphic and commands
03:37:26 <BigBB> Thiniad: and? fjb: of course
03:38:04 <Thiniad> the best option is to make a thread in forum and write down what are advantages of PBS and run voting
03:38:23 <BigBB> Thiniad: I know what I have to do. I ask for: what do you (and the devs) preffered
03:39:01 <Thiniad> me: more signals, making a game a little more difficult and tempting
03:39:05 <BigBB> Thiniad: I want to make a signal gui patch and not a pbs patch...
03:39:40 <BigBB> Thiniad, maybe you read my posts?
03:39:49 <Thiniad> sorry i misunderstood something a lot
03:40:18 <BigBB> np, if I write to difficult: I'm sry
03:40:46 <Thiniad> no, no its no difficult, its just i sometimes get lost in some sentences
03:41:26 <Thiniad> i didnt write english a long time
03:42:10 <Thiniad> lol, its to be here :)
03:42:41 <Thiniad> eh i wanted to ask you something
03:43:36 <Thiniad> im looking at newgrf graphic replacement project and i spotted some "unclaimed" small project, is that free to anyone for completition
03:44:27 <BigBB> what specially mean you?
03:44:52 <Thiniad> monorail and maglev trails
03:45:24 <Thiniad> im looking on net for some schematics and pictures of those trails thinking i might draw that
03:46:07 <BigBB> iokay, what do you want to know? how you can change the sprites of monorail and maglev?
03:47:23 <BigBB> I can make you a NewGRF, but I am no graphic arthist, so please give me some images
03:47:57 * fjb thinks he has to go to bed now.
03:49:22 <Thiniad> i found real-life images for "template", i would try to draw something then present it on forum, i just wanted know do i need to tell somebody that im working on that?
03:51:02 <BigBB> only post if you release your work: where your starting image will be from
03:51:14 <Thiniad> but one thing at a time
03:51:48 <BigBB> but you must have a look on the license of the image/grf/and so on
03:52:13 <BigBB> for example MB works, he don't allowed editing
03:54:29 <Thiniad> license is in power only if you directly edit his grf
03:56:11 <Thiniad> well i wont edit any grfs, i'll rather make new grf based on real-life building
03:56:32 <Thiniad> hmm eiffel tower as a city monument lol
03:56:53 <BigBB> no, what grf's you want to edit?
03:57:16 <Thiniad> i want to create new graphic
03:58:03 <BigBB> all grf's in the download of OTTD are opensource so you can edit them. or do you want to replace an image, for that do you need a NewGRF and an action A IIRC
03:58:55 <BigBB> aah, okay. what do you wan to make (new)
03:59:23 <TinoDidriksen> Entirely new building types (e.g. wonders of the world), not merely new graphics for an existing building, as I understand it.
04:00:30 <Thiniad> at this moment im thinking of making new maglev trails
04:01:11 <BigBB> okay, my knowledge about NewGRF are low. But for new maglev tracks you need only an action A
04:03:58 <Thiniad> hmm that doesnt look difficult
04:05:02 <Thiniad> i have lot of free time so i got nothing to lose
04:06:53 <BigBB> are you an artist or a coder?
04:07:52 <Thiniad> for me its easier to artist as i dont like numbers
04:08:06 <Thiniad> neitheir im good at math...
04:11:12 <BigBB> c / nfo / and a little bit c++
04:12:05 <Thiniad> is it difficult being a coder?
04:12:29 <BigBB> it depends on what do you want to code
04:13:17 <BigBB> for e.g. OTTD you must first understand the code what you want to edit/extend
04:13:43 <BigBB> for e.g. NewGRF it depends on what you want make
04:14:15 <Thiniad> so there are things that are immpossible to make
04:14:18 <BigBB> it can be very easy till extremly complicate
04:14:38 <BigBB> there'sa no immpossible
04:16:00 <BigBB> I can help you to edit a patch or grf. but only if I like it how the other coders who can help you...
04:16:17 <Thiniad> so i can ask you devs to create new memory optimization engine for easy handling of very large maps with 32bpp graphic and hundreds of vehicles?
04:16:43 <Thiniad> thank you. if i need help i will ask you
04:19:22 <Thiniad> no need to be so specific lol, its actually 5:18am -1 that was stolen at 2:59:59am
04:20:31 <Thiniad> argh i meant 6:18 -1....
04:21:37 <Tefad_> errr why isn't my steel mill requiring coal?
04:22:51 <DaleStan> Because you didn't load ECS or PBI?
04:23:05 <Tefad_> i thought in classic they're required
04:23:34 <Tefad_> what have i been playing all these years? : x
04:23:46 <Tefad_> so coal only goes to power plants?
04:24:20 <DaleStan> Yep. Just power plants.
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05:55:28 <Thiniad> is shoreline patch from BigBB supported in latest nightly?
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06:35:14 <Thiniad> is alpine climate patch compatible with nighty builds ottd?
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06:56:46 <Thiniad> why is ottd using large cpu power for 512x512 map with 32bpp water and grass with animation?? is there any way to reduce that?
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08:35:09 <Luukland> Maarten :) Could I query you?
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09:15:10 <mcbane> tourist center accept tourist but produce non and dont acccept food and valuables as it shout.
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09:49:22 <Maedhros> where on the map does the message take you if you click on it?
09:50:23 <Maedhros> hmm, probably nowhere
09:51:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> i noticed that tourist centers often get created on water during map generation
09:52:11 <Maedhros> hmm, i wonder who's bug that is? probably ours, i guess :)
09:52:20 <Maedhros> anyway, please can you post it on bugs.openttd.org?
09:53:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> you have a weird construction style...
09:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> afraid of signals?
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09:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, i mean your rails ;)
09:54:44 <mcbane> eddi: heh was a test if i can make money and try out if tourist centers work..
09:55:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Dannenmuenster%20Transport,%2029.%20Okt%201922.png <- my station style ;)
09:56:07 <mcbane> who builds in sdhorst =P
09:57:42 <mcbane> maedhros. thers a bug with tourist centers. they should accept food cargo and tourist and produce tourists but with no esc combination i can make acccept those.
09:58:02 <mcbane> it sais accept tourists but it dont produce/accept anything
09:58:23 <mcbane> eddit: yea im not that good so i use basics.
09:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> my tourist centers do accept food
10:00:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, actually, no... it says it accepts stuff, but the station doesn't
10:00:17 <ln-> that mine so much doesn't match with the style of other grapchis
10:00:44 <mcbane> eddi: it also sais it produce tourist but it dont. neither valuables.
10:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: yeah, there's more style stuff
10:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> e.g. the industry next to it has an insane height
10:08:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... the autoroad tool is funny and nice, but the 'A' button still opens the rail toolbar
10:08:53 *** Hendikins|Work\CBR is now known as Hendikins
10:09:08 <Maedhros> i have no idea why that was ever a global shortcut
10:19:46 <Maedhros> argh. the autoroad sprite looks really ugly with the dos data files
10:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... i need turning loop stations for trams...
10:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> what happend to the newgrf ports?
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11:31:42 <Jhs> can someone tell me how to change openttd.cfg in Ubuntu?
11:32:46 <Jhs> when i try to save it, it says "Unexpected error: file not found"
11:37:47 <Maedhros> which version of openttd are you using?
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11:43:53 <Jhs> Maedhros, the latest. 0.5.3
11:43:53 <tiaz_> what editor are you using?
11:44:10 <tiaz_> could you try saving it elsewhere and move it over the "real" one?
11:44:21 <Jhs> the thing is, i can't find the real one.
11:44:35 <Jhs> i find it using terminal, but not in nautilus
11:44:36 <tiaz_> then what are you modifying?
11:44:41 <Rubidium> Jhs: find / -iname "openttd.cfg" ?
11:44:52 <tiaz_> the directory or the file?
11:45:08 <tiaz_> the directory is hidden (that's what files/dirs that start with "." are)
11:45:35 <tiaz_> you can type it in (/home/yourname/.openttd/ or ~/.openttd or probably even .openttd/) and it will go there though
11:45:38 <tiaz_> into the gedit open dialog I mean
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11:46:04 <LeviathNL> in nautilus you can use <ctrl>-h to show these hidden files
11:47:18 <Jhs> it worked now. thanks for the help, folks. :)
11:47:44 * Jhs needed to change the standard font, because he's gonna start playing in Esperanto to up his Esperanto skillz. :D
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11:57:01 <skidd13> TrueBrain: are you awake?
12:03:49 <TrueBrain> skidd13: awake: yes; really busy: that too
12:11:16 <qkr> is there a way to build one way signals fast on railway track? I normally drag the signals but then I have to manually convert them to 1 way signals one by one
12:11:59 <Progman> convert first, then drag
12:17:07 <skidd13> TrueBrain: Just a side notice between your bussy day. I reduced a few things by replacing the includes by the ones provided by the NVIDIA installer and then added #define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES 1 before the gl includes. But now this error occurs http://paste.openttd.org/266
12:19:31 <TrueBrain> seems a wrong * somewhere
12:28:45 <skidd13> The qestion is where...
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13:29:48 <Alberth> What is the rationale for not publishing that a player was discovered bribing? (source code seems to indicate that, town_cmd.cpp, around line 2070: /* only show errormessage to the executing player. ....*/), Wouldn't it be fun to publish this in multi-player games?
13:30:01 <Alberth> (and the same for the other things one can do in a town)
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13:39:32 <Sacro> Anyone in here using Anjuta? I can't get it to make a project from trunk :(
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13:45:31 <TrueBrain> click 'up/down/left/right' ;)
13:49:07 <TrueBrain> skidd13: don't you like it? :p
13:49:17 <TrueBrain> skidd13: btw, IW as thinking about the OpenGL, I remember Ihad to do something simular
13:49:54 <skidd13> TrueBrain: WebTTD is mad. I like it :D
13:50:14 <TrueBrain> it is just showing landscape :p
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13:50:55 <TrueBrain> hi, my name is nobody
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13:51:30 <TrueBrain> my point exactly :)
13:51:39 <TrueBrain> anyway, generation time is too high
13:51:47 <Luukland> May I query you Ammler / Ammller?
13:52:00 <TrueBrain> @kick Luukland for the love of God, stop asking that all the time
13:52:00 *** Luukland was kicked by DorpsGek (for the love of God, stop asking that all the time)
13:52:07 <skidd13> TrueBrain: Do you remember the fix for opengl?
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13:52:24 <TrueBrain> skidd13: adding the define you said, and ... something else, something simple
13:52:48 <TrueBrain> Luukland: sorry, it is really annoying, you asking that all the time. Just send him a PM, he will reply when ever he wants to
13:53:13 <skidd13> Luukland: try at #wwottdgd
13:53:16 <Luukland> TrueBrain.. I try to be polite :)
13:53:26 <TrueBrain> Luukland: yeah, but you never talk to him in this channel :p
13:53:50 <Luukland> I aint talk to anyone here :)
13:54:10 <skidd13> (14:53:52) Luukland: I aint talk to anyone here :) <<< So do you?
13:54:11 <TrueBrain> my point ;) So all we see, if you trying to reach someone :) I want to know what you guys are saying, or keep it private ;)
13:54:29 <TrueBrain> skidd13: I just can't remember what it was exactly...
13:54:34 <Sacro> TrueBrain: i see the land, but how do i build anything?
13:54:36 <TrueBrain> and I can't find my working copy...
13:54:45 <Sacro> TrueBrain: actually, could that be hijacked for graphics testing?
13:54:50 <TrueBrain> Sacro: pick up an piece of paper, and paste it on your screen
13:55:10 * skidd13 hands TrueBrain the find tool
13:55:20 <TrueBrain> most likely I removed my working copy
13:55:23 <TrueBrain> I do that from time to time :p
13:55:40 * skidd13 hands Truebrain the recover tool :D
13:55:46 <TrueBrain> ah, it is in my 32bpp git
13:55:59 <TrueBrain> /static PFNGLCOLORTABLEEXTPROC glColorTableEXT = NULL;
13:56:00 <Sacro> TrueBrain: i like this :)
13:56:01 <TrueBrain> that is what I did :p
13:56:04 <TrueBrain> with an extra / in front
13:56:06 <Sacro> though not really networkable
13:56:16 <TrueBrain> and #define GL_GLEXT_PROTOTYPES before <SDL.h>
13:56:35 <Sacro> i'd have to make multiple copies and post them
13:56:58 <TrueBrain> Sacro: it takes a bit longer, but not impossible
13:57:01 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD over email :)
13:57:14 <skidd13> TrueBrain: Does not work. Is your git online?
13:57:27 <TrueBrain> skidd13: it is only local, as it is peter's patch, with those 2 changes
13:57:57 <skidd13> Hmm. Maybe I've to rebase my copy.
14:01:43 <skidd13> trunk/src/blitter/opengl.cpp:22: Error: expected unqualified-id before »/« token
14:01:54 <TrueBrain> my IRC only put in 1
14:03:22 <TrueBrain> I wonder how I can remove the flickering...
14:04:04 <TrueBrain> comment out that block too
14:04:52 <skidd13> I remembered that I did that earlier and my linker went mad.
14:05:17 <TrueBrain> I just commented out all glColorTableEXT stuff
14:05:26 <TrueBrain> linker errors are good, means compiler did its job
14:05:30 <TrueBrain> linker errors can be missing -lgl
14:08:54 <huma> hmm, why i can't see any new indistries in r11255?
14:10:11 <LeviathNL> did you use any newindustries grf's?
14:11:32 <Belugas> did you specified none on number of industries?
14:11:48 <Belugas> dom you have a plain vanilla nightly?
14:12:03 <Belugas> a lot of possibilities, since here, it works...
14:14:54 <skidd13> Truebrain works now -lGL -lGLU have been missing
14:15:09 <TrueBrain> skidd13: as I said ;)
14:15:23 <TrueBrain> have fun with it :)
14:17:40 <skidd13> :D I'll try to connect ot wwottdgd cause my hardware was too weak recently
14:17:47 <LeviathNL> Codechange: use marker loaded grf feature has_newwater when it is required. (more to come) Belugas, can we expect BigBBs completely shore or boekabarts Sealevel patch in trunk soon? :)
14:19:11 <Belugas> LeviathNL...naaaa... it was just an exercise of grf feature specifying ;)
14:19:37 <Belugas> the more to come simply means more grf feature specifier to come
14:20:01 * Belugas goes away from keyboard, back to real life
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14:36:57 <skidd13> TrueBrain: Even with opengl my hardware is too weak for wwottdgd :(
14:37:40 <TrueBrain> skidd13: the blitter only takes that much CPU :)
14:37:47 <TrueBrain> YAPF (or rather: TrainController) uses more :)
14:38:48 <skidd13> Yup I hoped I could get a few percentages from my CPU. And I could connect again but with this lags nobody wants to play.
14:40:48 <skidd13> TrueBrain: I get a mad idea what about using something like CUDA for pathfinding?
14:41:10 <skidd13> So use GPU for pathfinding :D
14:45:07 <huma> LeviathNL: should i get industry gfx separately?
14:49:01 <huma> would be nice to icnlude them in the package
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15:12:06 <dihedral> TrueBrain: is that idea of skidd really possible?
15:12:29 <TrueBrain> everything is possible :)
15:12:47 <hylje> gpu-accelerated pathfinding
15:13:03 <ln-> why not gpu-accelerated graphics first?
15:16:15 <dihedral> and where exactly do your sprites need accelerating
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15:24:19 <ln-> dihedral: the phase where they move from system memory to your graphics card's memory and the screen.
15:24:45 <dihedral> but is it that much?
15:26:29 <ln-> some believe it is, but i don't have statistics.
15:26:35 <TrueBrain> ln-: btw, if the backend support it , we already do use the graphics card's memory
15:26:51 <TrueBrain> (as we simply request a video-buffer from the backend)
15:28:04 <TrueBrain> the only thing we might want to add, is to put the sprites in the GPs memory too :p
15:28:15 <TrueBrain> but the speed-gain willb e minimum
15:28:40 <TrueBrain> (when moving the screen, the buffer is moved around, so pretty fast ;))
15:28:48 <ln-> what about drawing stuff on an OpenGL texture?
15:29:06 <TrueBrain> see peter's OpenGL patch
15:29:11 <TrueBrain> it loads all sprites as textures, I believe
15:29:20 <TrueBrain> OpenGL only has a few problems to work correctly :)
15:31:08 <glx> one of them is the need for sdl :)
15:31:09 <ln-> so, effectively all this means i need to go buy a faster cpu to be able to play or even observe wwottdgd.
15:31:21 <TrueBrain> it works fine here :p
15:31:28 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
15:31:39 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
15:31:46 <TrueBrain> hmm, I don't have any old-topics in my history lsit
15:31:59 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
15:32:04 *** TrueBrain changes topic to "0.5.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | YouTube link == Ban"
15:32:06 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
15:32:21 <TrueBrain> ln-: remember that most of the CPU goes to the train controller
15:32:26 <TrueBrain> not to the blitter or other graphical things
15:33:18 <TrueBrain> (and if you want to know how much, profile the game :))
15:36:43 <dihedral> is there no way of making that a little 'sliker'?
15:37:12 <TrueBrain> make a profile, pick the top function, try to optimize it
15:38:25 <dihedral> i want to have a closer look at the networking first :-)
15:40:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11352 /trunk/src/ (misc_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: cache callback 2D result (vehicle color mapping) instead calling it every time the vehicle is drawn
15:41:42 * ln- preparing to compile with debug symbols on Mac...
15:42:06 <ln-> should i use DEBUG=1 or what?
15:43:04 <glx> ./configure --enable-debug=3
15:46:05 <glx> but for profiling level 3 may be too much
15:46:24 <glx> there's a switch to enable profiling
15:47:25 <ln-> i'm not going to use gprof.
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16:01:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11353 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: add support for newgrf callback 32
16:04:33 <Progman> yeah, newgrf callback 32
16:04:57 <Maedhros> why not look it up? :p
16:04:57 <ln-> ok, i have a 2048^2 map with no trains nor other vehicles.
16:05:18 <ln-> 21.7% of CPU is eaten by GetTileType(unsigned)
16:05:31 <TrueBrain> ln-: and you total CPU usage is almost nothing ;)
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16:06:09 <Maedhros> ln-: a lot of those might well be called from asserts, since you've enabled debugging
16:07:00 <ln-> ok, what options should i pass and what animals to sacrifice to compile with full optimizations, no asserts, but with debug symbols?
16:08:21 <skidd13> TrueBrain: checked FS1341 ?
16:08:27 <TrueBrain> skidd13: didn't had the time
16:08:42 <TrueBrain> ln-: downside of using lvl1 debug, is that you don't see the inlines ;)
16:09:16 <TrueBrain> and then get me some soarma!
16:09:23 <Maedhros> full optimisation and debug symbols rarely play well together...
16:09:52 <ln-> "Unknown option --with-sheep"
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16:31:26 <ln-> someone remove the [x] button from difficulty settings window immediately!
16:32:18 <ln-> skidd13: it behaves differently than all other [x] buttons in the game.
16:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause> countersuggestion: add a "discard changes?" dialogue
16:33:10 <skidd13> What do you expect from it?
16:34:00 <ln-> skidd13: i expect it to close the window and apply the settings i just changed.
16:34:12 <ln-> but noooo, it just silently ignores them.
16:34:22 <Eddi|zuHause> skidd13: other windows (e.g. patch settings) do not require saving
16:35:25 <skidd13> ln-: Wait a second I take a look at it.
16:38:24 <skidd13> The change to autosave won't be too difficult. But I'd prefer a popup.
16:39:52 <ln-> skidd13: darkvater doesn't prefer.
16:40:25 <Maedhros> that's deliberate - otherwise you wouldn't be able to go back from custom if you change any difficulty settings
16:40:28 <ln-> skidd13: but anyway, there is already a save button and a cancel button. the simplest way would be to remove the [x] because it won't do what it should anyway.
16:40:49 <ln-> i use "anyway" too much anyway.
16:41:29 <ln-> popups are bad UI design.
16:42:22 <skidd13> I'd prefer a clean solution. But I've to agree that a popup sucks
16:42:54 <ln-> and no other window gives you a popup after [x] either.
16:44:38 <skidd13> But the ignore any changes if [x] is pressed is easy to get, but on the other hand it doesn't fit in the common style. Hmm. This needs some further thinkin
16:45:20 <ln-> remove [x], force the user to consciously choose cancel or save. problem solved. end of thinking.
16:45:23 <Phazorx> is there an easy/hackish way to make a full minimap screenshot?
16:52:44 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: hg/git.openttd.org seem to be stuck again. and is it deliberate that git://git.openttd.org/svn.git wasn't updated since weeks ago?
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17:34:31 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: doing a manual update, it should tell me what is going wrong
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17:37:28 <TrueBrain> error: bad ref for refs/remotes/0.4
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17:41:02 <TrueBrain> error: unable to open object pack directory: .git/objects/pack: Too many open files
17:41:07 <TrueBrain> so that explains a few things :)
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18:03:11 <dihedral|afk> TrueBrain: thank you again for all the help support and work you offored and did...
18:03:51 <Phazorx> and i have a question btw
18:04:00 <Phazorx> is there an easy/hackish way to make a full minimap screenshot?
18:11:05 <SprudL> I'm confused.. should I enable npf and yapf in the patches or just one?
18:12:00 <LeviathNL> only yapf for roadvehicles, trains and airplanes(?), and npf for ships iirc
18:12:33 <glx> no, ships are slow with npf or yapf
18:13:06 <glx> s/are slow/slows the game/
18:13:16 <SprudL> ships are slow indeed :)
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18:50:39 <TrueBrain> dihedral|away / Phazorx: it was my plesure :)
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18:58:11 <fjb> Oh, I see a double Ammler. May I see a pink elephant soon?
18:59:59 <ln-> this is not an X-rated channel
19:00:31 <fjb> Are pink elephants x-rated?
19:01:46 <fjb> Oh, I didn't know. Why is pink an allowed company color then? :-)
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19:03:29 <fjb> Hm, pink airplanes are looking strange.
19:03:34 <TrueBrain> as this is neither a X-rated game
19:03:53 <TrueBrain> ln-: how is the profiling going?
19:04:06 * fjb wants pink elephants in the game.
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19:06:26 <ln-> TrueBrain: i figured i should use some savegame that has enough tracks, if i build one line it's not very realistic load.
19:06:37 <TrueBrain> use the wwottdgd one ;)
19:08:30 <ln-> i could try joining that...
19:08:46 <TrueBrain> after join, the map is in save/autosave/networkclient.tmp
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19:09:40 <TrueBrain> Farden: are you going tokeep on timing out?
19:13:34 *** Farden123 has joined #openttd
19:15:15 <Farden123> the answer is : yes
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19:15:46 <TrueBrain> Farden: then it might be for the best to part from IRC channels for the time being
19:15:46 <Farden> as long as I won't have my own connection, I won't be sure that it works
19:15:58 <Farden> and it could be for months
19:16:07 <TrueBrain> then you really have a sucky connection :p
19:16:09 <Farden> but I don't want to stay offline for months^^
19:16:17 <Farden> if a shared connection
19:16:32 <TrueBrain> then they should install a decent QoS :)
19:17:04 <Farden> i've ordered my own internet connection, but there are technical problems with the line
19:17:11 <Farden> so i've got the modem, but the line is not working
19:17:30 <TrueBrain> I hope you are not paying for it :)
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19:43:45 <TrueBrain> General Notice: as summertime came to an end, the nightly is just finish compiling (1 hour earlier, for those who don't have summertime ;))
19:44:13 <TrueBrain> michi_cc / LeviathNL: git problems fixed, slowly things are rebuilding now, but it takes for ever :)
19:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't it be "1 hour later"?
19:45:26 <TrueBrain> depends on how you look at it :P
19:46:10 <glx> anyway no changes for me ;)
19:55:25 <fjb> Looking at the last comits: will we have rivers in the near future?
19:55:31 <Phazorx> TrueBrain:/ glx anuy idea on a hack for full minimap screenshot?
19:56:35 <Phazorx> it should be possible
19:56:55 <Phazorx> since it has all the data and only display is limited
19:57:07 <Phazorx> so same dieas as for global screen can be applied
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20:12:35 * fjb likes the new bridges over almost everything feature.
20:31:14 <hylje> fjb: there's a new new bridges?! :p
20:32:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
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20:36:49 <TrueBrain> fjb: tnx, I like it too ;)
20:37:58 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: try using BOOKMARK in your browser
20:38:17 <TrueBrain> so why bugging us all the time
20:38:19 <TrueBrain> it is really annoying...
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20:41:36 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai
20:41:42 <TrueBrain> I should make a rule: if you look at my URL, you have to give your opinion :p
20:41:58 <fjb> TrueBrain: What is that? An online landscape generator?
20:42:16 <TrueBrain> no, fjb, that is a landscape :)
20:42:19 <TrueBrain> in which you can move around
20:42:43 <fjb> Can I build anithing there? :-)
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20:43:18 <TrueBrain> the map on the other hand is shared
20:43:23 <TrueBrain> so if I would make a change, you would see it :p
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20:43:49 <TrueBrain> just bandwidth seems to be a small problem... 1 click on the navigation is around 1kiB of data
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20:44:29 <fjb> Hm, then the bandwidth problem is not on my side. :-P
20:44:47 <TrueBrain> the slowness is because currently the host is doing some compression :)
20:46:21 <TrueBrain> the thing is, each click I need to update 30 tiles with information (the image, their position)
20:46:32 <TrueBrain> this means many chars...
20:46:40 <TrueBrain> and if I want clients to pre-cache, this would even increase...
20:47:10 <fjb> Ok. What ist it good for?
20:47:47 <TrueBrain> I just like designing things people claim impossible :) Like a scrollable landscape in a browser, generated < 5ms :)
20:50:09 <fjb> How about making signal on bridges or tunnel then? :-P
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20:56:45 <TrueBrain> k, svn<->git bridge seems to be working again :)
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21:14:18 <Phazorx> i'm trying to get it to work to some degree with current trunk
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21:22:11 <mikk36> "Each time you quit OpenTTD, it writes any changes to the file." <-- does it ?
21:24:16 <mikk36> changing options during a game does not make them go to the conf any more ?
21:29:40 <Maedhros> not during a game, no
21:29:47 <Maedhros> only if you change them at the main menu
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21:40:25 <Phazorx> NukeBuster: you are actualy one of maintainers for this one - what am i missing?
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22:08:27 <Ammlller> Heya, what can be problem, if I have "Speicherzugriffsfehler"
22:09:27 <Ammlller> segmentation fault ?
22:17:14 <valhalla1w> Ammlller: that sounds like drive access error to me
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22:17:48 <Ammlller> valhallasw: on a dedicated server
22:18:15 <valhallasw> then why have you set your locale to german? :P
22:18:29 <Ammlller> oh, I have to check the hd :)
22:19:07 <Ammlller> hmm 26% of 15 Gig used
22:19:11 <Progman> its more like an memory error
22:19:23 <valhallasw> my german is not that good
22:20:00 <Ammlller> valhallasw: leo translated into segmentation fault
22:22:51 <Sacro> Ammlller: can't you put it in English?
22:23:11 <Ammlller> Sacro: segmentation fault
22:23:22 <Sacro> Ammlller: i mean the server :p
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22:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammlller: segmentation fault is when the program tries to access memory that it did not reserve before
22:49:02 <Ammlller> Eddi|zuHause: strange was, it happens only with a special save
22:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause> in C that often means array out of bound
22:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause> or accessing a freed pointer
22:49:33 <Eddi|zuHause> or wrong pointer arithmetics
22:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i recently had one during an autosave
22:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but i could not reproduce it
22:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can reproduce it, a backtrace might help
22:52:36 <Bjarni> a backtrace always gives more info in a case like this
22:52:44 <Bjarni> like where in the code it fails
22:53:08 <Bjarni> the question is if you can make sense of why it fails at that function, but you will know where it fails
22:53:23 <Ammlller> I have a save where it will happen...
22:53:41 <Bjarni> try it in a debug build
22:53:41 <Ammlller> after unpausing in about 5 sec
22:53:54 <Bjarni> that is if you know how to debug ;)
22:54:08 <Ammlller> yeah, I should know... :)
22:54:18 <Ammlller> but I am not pro of that...
22:54:35 <Ammlller> if I run it with -d it only exited, no message
22:54:39 <Bjarni> it takes very little skill to locate the line where an app crashes
22:54:45 <Ammlller> but I do a debug compile
22:55:06 <Bjarni> I didn't say run it with debug output, but run it in a debugger
22:56:09 <Bjarni> gdb is a debugger, but any debugger will do
22:56:23 <Bjarni> note: it helps to type the name correctly when starting it ;)
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23:36:20 <Bjarni> Ammlller: any update on where it crashes?
23:37:04 <Ammlller> oh, I had some other play with Osai^zZz, but he is now gone, I try it now
23:48:11 <Bjarni> is v pointing to a sane vehicle?
23:49:01 <Ammlller> well, I didn't use it more...
23:49:11 <Ammlller> how to see such things
23:49:14 <Bjarni> maybe the data in v is saved incorrectly
23:50:08 <Bjarni> look for out of place data in it
23:51:24 <Ammlller> the only diff between this save and the save we just played
23:51:30 <Ammlller> is the new dutch tram set
23:51:59 <Bjarni> what happened to: one var, one line ordering?
23:52:08 <Bjarni> this is damn hard to read :(
23:52:28 <Ammlller> Bjarni: you have the grfpack already
23:52:33 <Ammlller> you you like the save
23:52:43 <Ammlller> it will fail by you too
23:53:00 <Ammlller> it took now may 1min
23:53:13 <Ammlller> but mostly it failed after 10sec
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23:54:18 <fjb> Ammler: Do you use my patch for the dutch tram set?
23:54:24 <Bjarni> make a bug report and post the savegame with it
23:54:30 <Bjarni> I don't think I can solve this right away
23:54:32 <Ammlller> :), no you are lucky
23:55:30 <fjb> My early versions of that patch had some problems. But now they are fixed.
23:55:39 <Bjarni> all I can make out of this is that it checks some overtaking code for a tram and then it crashes
23:56:12 <Ammlller> maybe dutch trams does something new with articulated, what others don't?
23:56:30 <Bjarni> could be interesting to see what it's doing in the game when the game crashes
23:57:10 <Bjarni> I have no idea what the grf in question does or doesn't... you see I'm not a newGRF guru :/
23:58:00 <Ammlller> fjb: do you know the dutch set well
23:58:39 <fjb> The dutch tram set chould not touch road vehicle 177.
23:59:11 <fjb> I don't know much about nfo. I just changed a few hex values. :-)
23:59:23 <Ammlller> hmm, I didn't read it yet, but there is also a bug releated to ottd, split in the thread.
23:59:50 <Bjarni> changing hex values at random could be... interesting
continue to next day ⏵
