IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-10-27
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00:31:14 <dihedral> compare 2 strings, there is a function for that right? cannot find it, any hints
00:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> 0? sounds a bit reversed...
00:37:04 <glx> no, because it can be <0 and >0 to indicate string order
00:39:23 <dihedral> where can i find colors for chat messages
00:39:36 <dihedral> i outputted a debug message
00:40:04 <dihedral> i thought there were only 16 colors, and in an array
00:50:28 <dihedral> how do i calculate colors for chat messages??
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01:02:53 <Stigmata> I'm having problem upgrading my train to monorail
01:03:13 <Phazorx> tracks are upgratebale
01:03:18 <Phazorx> trains are just diffrent
01:03:33 <Stigmata> how can I upgrade my train
01:03:51 <Phazorx> you have to recreate it
01:04:04 <Stigmata> i have to delete it and than create a new one?
01:04:06 <Phazorx> if you have few trains - delete it and depot where it was
01:04:09 <AntB> just use replace trains on the vehicle list?
01:04:24 <AntB> srry, reading back that wont work :D
01:04:27 <Phazorx> put depot of new type and create a train there
01:04:39 <Phazorx> it will have same name/schedule/group as old one
01:04:45 <Phazorx> works only wth one trains though
01:05:12 <Phazorx> glx: where is display color defined
01:05:20 <Phazorx> for server/game messages
01:09:39 <Phazorx> did you send the train to depot ?
01:09:50 <Phazorx> did you seel the train?
01:10:00 <Phazorx> did you remove the depot?
01:10:10 <Phazorx> did you put a new one of another type there?
01:10:47 <Phazorx> since you create a train somewhere else
01:11:14 <Stigmata> ok now i created the depot at the same place
01:11:26 <Phazorx> well sequence is important
01:11:43 <Phazorx> however, for the train you buuld, check the schedule
01:12:16 <Stigmata> i need to built the same train?
01:13:44 <glx> Phazorx: _string_colormap
01:14:29 <Phazorx> Stigmata: it is quite tricky and only thing you get to maintain is the schedule
01:15:27 <Stigmata> this is the only thing i want, but its not working
01:16:23 <Phazorx> Stigmata: normaly it works, if train gets same number it gets the schedule
01:16:29 <Phazorx> as long as you created it right after
01:17:30 <Stigmata> it gets the same number
01:17:34 <Stigmata> but not the schedule
01:29:06 <Stigmata> so nothing else to do?
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09:49:27 <Ailure> talk about orginal use of current graphics
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10:54:03 <Phazorx> hmm... apparently any pre-NI made scn with added NI (at least PBI) fails to have prices for cargo
10:54:19 <Phazorx> can that be corrected at save file level somehow?
10:55:06 <Rubidium> rather pre-NC I guess
10:55:42 <Rubidium> and I wouldn't have a clue how to fix it
10:56:48 <Phazorx> sad... that spils #wwottdgd game that si about to start
10:56:52 <Phazorx> since we just noticed it
10:57:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> create a new game and copy the map?
10:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you do uncompressed savegames, you should be able to just replace the chunks
10:58:55 <Rubidium> I even think that newgrfs are not meant to support what you want.
11:02:33 <Rubidium> replacing already existing cargos in an existing game without any problems
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11:02:55 <Phazorx> Rubidium: adding to a game with no industries did not work wither
11:03:32 <Rubidium> that's again replacing already existing cargos in an existing game
11:03:55 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2's way?
11:04:03 <Phazorx> like hack client to resave the values?
11:04:29 <Phazorx> Rubidium: well that is a relatively long way, hacked client can work on compressed
11:04:42 <Phazorx> i just need to know what part of save file needs to be affected
11:06:11 <Rubidium> what do you personally think?
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11:06:47 <Phazorx> i personaly do not know what data piece needs to be modified
11:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> if it works anything like other RIFF files, each chunk has a 4 byte size and a 4 letter name
11:06:59 <Phazorx> and it is easier digging the code that a binary fine
11:07:22 <Phazorx> but if one knows what to look for - save is easier
11:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> you "just" need to choose if you want to copy the chunk from the first or second savegame
11:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> and then update the size of the parent chunk
11:08:35 <Rubidium> Phazorx: do you think it is in the code that saves vehicles? that saves towns?
11:08:55 <Rubidium> continue that and you'll automatically find some place where it might be saved
11:09:32 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: what games are you reffering to exactly ?
11:09:56 <Phazorx> Rubidium: with nerwgrfs in the way it gets a bit more blurry in terms of what part being saved where
11:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> the scenario without newcargo, and the new game with newcargo, but without map
11:10:05 <Phazorx> the data comes from code obviosly
11:10:13 <Phazorx> but cargo costs is a framework data
11:10:48 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: that sound very hackish
11:11:04 <Phazorx> but for starters is there an easy way to save something uncompressed?
11:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, just skip the call to zlib
11:13:27 <dihedral> is it possible to calculate the "seed" of an scn?
11:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> dihedral: there should be a console command for that
11:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> dihedral: but that will not help if there are custom modifications to the scn
11:14:48 <dihedral> yes - thought of that too just now :-P
11:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phazorx: another way would be to find the function that loads cargo data, and instead call the matching function from generate new game
11:16:58 <Rubidium> Phazorx: ever tried searching OTTD's source for the words cargo and payment?
11:17:05 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: that;s a major mode
11:17:31 <Phazorx> Rubidium: the numbers i am looking for as well as cargo ides are not in data i can see
11:19:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
11:21:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11349 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1372]: crash when moving "invalid" cargo to a station.
11:23:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11350 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Change: add missing elrail sprites for some rail build buttons/cursors. Sprites by skidd13.
11:26:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r11351 /trunk/src/os/macosx/splash.cpp: -Fix (r11342): [OSX] killed a warning
11:27:48 <Rubidium> Bjarni: that warning "fix" you made yesterday is a little double and is a bug in the OSX compiler
11:29:09 <Rubidium> moving the default to the top of the switch already silenced the warning, which means you did not need to add that: return false; // kill warning generated by a broken compiler
11:30:07 <Bjarni> moving the default didn't solve it, but I figured that if I didn't move it somebody would and kill the return
11:30:09 <Rubidium> moving the default did not kill the warning?
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11:30:39 <Rubidium> if that's the problem we should stop supporting the OSX compiler due to very big bugs
11:31:14 <Rubidium> and making it not-inlined should've solved the warning too, according to TB
11:31:56 <Bjarni> well... making it non-inlined would slow down the binary. I didn't want to do that
11:31:58 <Rubidium> anyhow, I vote for stopping OSX support because they cannot implement switch in their compiler in a semi-proper manner, i.e. their compiler does not support fall-through it seems
11:32:17 <Bjarni> I know it's not much, but it would be silly to make a slower binary due to a silly warning
11:32:48 <Bjarni> moving the default works everywhere else... I can't explain why it didn't work here....
11:33:22 <Rubidium> Bjarni: how often is that piece of code called?
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11:33:46 <Rubidium> effectively that is per second max
11:34:18 <Rubidium> and how likely is it that the compiler decides by itself that it can inline that function?
11:34:32 <Rubidium> and by deciding it itself it does not warn about it
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11:36:28 <Phazorx> Rubidium: how exactly saving of NC/NI data into the map works?
11:37:09 <Phazorx> i have uncompressed test saves that are basicly blank, one with scn based on std, and another one with same scn but added PBI
11:37:23 <Phazorx> they differe by ~1Kb in favor of STD
11:37:34 <Phazorx> so nc/ni apprears to have less data
11:39:07 <Rubidium> Phazorx: that's probably sucky compression or so
11:39:25 <Phazorx> Rubidium: paused map, no compression
11:39:48 <Phazorx> map is flat 64x64 with nothing on it
11:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phazorx: i suggest adding the newgrfs before creating the map
11:39:58 <Phazorx> aside of town record with 0 population
11:40:10 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: i added grfs into scn
11:40:20 <Phazorx> i'm trying to see the difference
11:40:29 <Phazorx> but i see difference in size mostly
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11:41:23 <Rubidium> Bjarni: have you already found out how often your needs-to-be-inlined function is called?
11:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phazorx: have you disabled compression?
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11:42:04 <Phazorx> it is uncompressed maps i look at
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11:43:58 <dihedral> Phazorx: is there anything i can be doing atm?
11:44:11 <Phazorx> moderating the game as it is ?
11:45:59 <dihedral> game has not started
11:46:16 <dihedral> we had a fixed time and i thing we should load the game at official start time
11:46:50 <Phazorx> aside of not having a good game to load you are all set
11:47:25 <dihedral> we have another 30 mins
11:47:39 <Phazorx> dihedral: i woke up ~30 hrs ago :)
11:47:42 <dihedral> Kommer is in the game
11:48:38 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: any better pointsrs to section of the save file that controls cargo and prices ?
11:49:35 <dihedral> Phazorx: should we just pause the game for now?
11:49:43 <dihedral> untill we have official start?
11:49:58 <Phazorx> actualy what should be thought thorugh is global ML design and layout
11:50:28 <Kommer> will the map be reloaded on restart? so everything removed?
11:50:42 <Maedhros> the chunks labelled PRIC and CAPR would seem like good places to start
11:50:50 <Phazorx> in fact if we lucky it will be even a bit different map
11:51:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phazorx: have you seen economy.cpp:1904?
11:51:30 <Kommer> Phazorx: a question in the admin channel from me. can you awnser it?
11:51:37 <Phazorx> SET_EXPENSES_TYPE(EXPENSES_OTHER); ?
11:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> "static void SaveLoad_PRIC()"
11:54:01 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: we have very different economy.cpp
11:54:28 <Phazorx> 1904 is part of CommandCost CmdBuyCompany(TileIndex tile, uint32 flags, uint32 p1, uint32 p2)
11:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> forget the number
11:57:05 <Phazorx> yeah i found it in both cpp and save
11:57:14 <Phazorx> is there a minimum section size?
11:57:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> the size of the chunk are the 4 bytes before the name
11:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> 4 byte "size", 4 byte "name", size byte "data"
11:59:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is RIFF format
11:59:31 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: i see chunks GPRS<2bytes>CAPA<2bytes>PRIC
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12:00:04 <Phazorx> 4 bytes before grps are blanks
12:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> you're in a hex editor?
12:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> are there more occurances of "PRIC"?
12:02:00 <Phazorx> nope only one at very end
12:02:09 <Phazorx> but i had a question about format
12:02:25 <Phazorx> i dont see mentioned pattern of 8 bytes header
12:02:45 <Phazorx> since i see 3 names in 16 bytes
12:02:58 <Phazorx> prefixed by 4 null byts
12:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> how does the file start?
12:04:34 <Phazorx> 4F54544E005200004D4150530000000800000080000000804D415054
12:04:43 <Phazorx> OTTN.R..MAPS............MAPT
12:05:11 <Phazorx> perhaps there are embeded sections?
12:05:16 <Phazorx> i mean chunks inside chunks
12:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> sure, each "data" part can consist of more chunks
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12:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> does the file size happen to be 82kb?
12:09:30 <Phazorx> -rw-rw-rw- 1 user group 169525 Oct 27 07:36 pbi0.sav
12:09:31 <Phazorx> -rw-rw-rw- 1 user group 170679 Oct 27 07:36 pbi1.sav
12:10:00 <Phazorx> i compared PRIC and CAPA sections they are same
12:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, because you did not add the newgrf BEFORE creating the map
12:11:10 <Maedhros> they shouldn't be though - PRIC should store 49 int64s, and CAPR should store 32 int64s
12:11:37 <Phazorx> Maedhros: i mean same between 2 saves
12:12:00 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: see you point habg on
12:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i can't find the functions that create these values at startup
12:14:27 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: CAPR is different
12:14:51 <Phazorx> Maedhros: is CAPR the one that stores cargo/time price ?
12:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> is it same size?
12:15:22 <Phazorx> Maedhros: anything else affects it ?
12:15:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> then try to copy that segment into the real savegame
12:15:30 <Maedhros> and for some reason it's initialised in misc.cpp (InitializeLandscapeVariables())
12:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, if one could find that initialisation function, you could put that in afterloadgame or something ;)
12:16:38 <Phazorx> hmm CAPR in real map does not look like one w/ or w/o PBI
12:16:52 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: desyncs
12:16:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phazorx: because they change over time?
12:17:08 <Rubidium> and it doesn't take care of inflation properly either
12:17:22 <Maedhros> Eddi|zuHause2: it's already in AfterLoadGame :p
12:17:27 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: do prices of cargo change overtime?
12:17:41 <Rubidium> so you'll get a very low cargo income whereas the buying prices are much higher
12:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i meant for an initial conversion
12:18:05 <Phazorx> Rubidium: so it does scale with time ?
12:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> for the real game, use an unchanged client, and a resaved game
12:18:41 <Rubidium> Phazorx: that's the reason why it is stored in the savegame
12:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phazorx: did the copying work?
12:19:14 <Phazorx> okay how "sane/safe" is it to override CAPR with one from vanilae PBI save?
12:19:26 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: i just founf what to copy
12:19:32 <Phazorx> aside of size actuaky
12:19:36 <Phazorx> and have not tried yet
12:19:54 <Phazorx> 4 bytes before and after name are 0000
12:20:09 <Phazorx> i realy wonde about size
12:20:24 <Phazorx> 4 bytes after are not 0
12:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> you should be fine, if you do not modify the size of the savegame
12:22:13 <Phazorx> but differen in size vanilla PBI (0140) bad game(0142
12:22:21 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: err... cant guarantee that
12:22:35 <Phazorx> and from what Maedhros said before this doesnt realy make sense
12:22:53 <Phazorx> actualy nm that i cant count :)
12:25:34 <Phazorx> and if i can count right this time, file data ends 4 bytes before file does
12:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway... did replacing work?Ü
12:26:57 <Phazorx> this is too hackish tho
12:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> so, is the problem fixed?
12:27:41 <Phazorx> trying to figure that one out
12:29:51 <Phazorx> thanks Eddi|zuHause2 / Maedhros
12:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> you are lucky that it's a fixed size array :)
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12:40:28 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause2: i guess
12:40:46 <Phazorx> considering how much of a hack this whole project is - very lucky
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12:59:50 <Phazorx> openttd: /home/ottdc/bin/clientsunlimited/src/network/core/packet.cpp:137: void Packet::Send_string(const char*): A
12:59:50 <Phazorx> ssertion `this->size + strlen(data) + 1 <= sizeof(this->buffer)' failed.
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13:01:00 <Phazorx> well that's 20 ppl on the samn server
13:01:05 <Phazorx> with 20 still conencting
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13:12:48 <Rubidium> glx: it's most likely somewhere else
13:12:58 <Rubidium> like the place where the client names are send
13:13:01 <Rubidium> or the company names
13:13:04 <Rubidium> or something like that
13:13:32 <glx> probably, as newgrf stuff should be ok now
13:14:07 <Rubidium> seems they never tested with long client names
13:14:11 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 26.5454545455
13:16:12 <Rubidium> look at PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO
13:16:43 <Rubidium> that's 38 bytes per player that is connected when all players have "" as name.
13:16:58 <Rubidium> or at least in my math
13:18:14 <Rubidium> but then again, it's their problem not ours cause we've warned them about the fact that it isn't "just" a simple constant change
13:35:57 <Phazorx> glx: we got that one again :(
13:36:17 <glx> Phazorx: read what Rubidium said
13:36:24 <Rubidium> Phazorx: as I explained, it much more likely it's something else
13:37:57 <Phazorx> so there is a critical mass of player
13:38:07 <Phazorx> and long nicks are a factor?
13:39:27 <Rubidium> number of players primarily
13:39:51 <Rubidium> with a name of "" you can only have
13:40:09 <Rubidium> something like 35 players
13:40:38 <Rubidium> note that this is not accurate in any way; I disregarded any number of companies etc.
13:40:44 <Rubidium> only players with name ""
13:41:50 <Phazorx> Rubidium: how bad would it be to cut that string rather than assert there?
13:42:35 <Rubidium> that crashes clients I guess
13:42:49 <Rubidium> not sure about that though
13:42:53 <Phazorx> if they get "blah blah bla"
13:43:02 <Phazorx> instea of blah blah blah they crash >?
13:43:44 <Rubidium> and cutting the string only makes it crash one "entry" later
13:44:00 <Rubidium> in the next string or the next number or the next bool that is send
13:45:54 <Phazorx> so MSS is a limitation becasue we try to fit all into one packet
13:46:05 <Phazorx> and as soon as we exceed 1460 - it borks?
13:46:13 <dihedral> would i be correct in the assumption that this assert occures when sending data about 'all players'?
13:46:36 <Phazorx> Rubidium: Maximum Segment Size
13:46:43 <Rubidium> dihedral: no, a large enough subset too
13:46:52 <Rubidium> Phazorx: basically yes
13:47:07 <Phazorx> and data is cumulative and mandatory
13:47:09 <Rubidium> we don't want to assemble and disassemble UDP packets
13:47:17 <dihedral> it would not be the client info packet, as that sends for each client to each client
13:48:27 <dihedral> it would have to be something that loops over all clients / all players and tries to send all that data in one packet
13:49:34 <dihedral> Rubidium: do you think it could have been a udp or tcp packet?
13:50:21 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Error: 'random' is not a defined function.
13:50:45 <Rubidium> with a certainty between 0 and 1 it is tcp
13:50:47 <dihedral> it if was a udp packet we could comment out the assert
13:51:09 <dihedral> as that would only affect the lobby window, and not game play
13:51:14 <Rubidium> just start uncommenting all assertions
13:51:19 <Rubidium> they're useless anyway
13:51:25 <Rubidium> they only assert when you don't need them
13:51:47 <dihedral> Rubidium: it would not harm game play if a udp packet for the lobby window has an issue
13:51:55 <Rubidium> ah well... if you want to make the server remotely exploitable you should disable the assert
13:52:24 <Phazorx> well i'd suggest cutting the string to appropriate length
13:52:31 <Phazorx> rather than disableing the assert
13:52:47 <dihedral> and if after the Send_string it tries to send some other data?
13:52:50 <Rubidium> Phazorx: as I said before, that makes it crash also
13:52:53 <dihedral> it will just assert somewhere else
13:53:02 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i dont get how
13:53:12 <dihedral> you dont just send a string
13:53:23 <Phazorx> if currently it exceeds tje buffer and we prevernt that, why would it crash on next one ?
13:53:25 <dihedral> the string is part of a packet holding _more_ data than just the string
13:53:28 <Rubidium> Send_String(<string of 1500 characters>); Send_String(string of 1 character)
13:53:49 <Rubidium> first chops to 1460, second asserts because it can't fit the '\0
13:53:55 <Rubidium> first chops to 1460, second asserts because it can't fit the '\0' in the packet anymore
13:54:04 <Phazorx> Rubidium: why there would be a second ?
13:54:22 <Rubidium> because you are sending the fracking strings per client/player
13:54:26 <Phazorx> by "cut" i mean it never send the other part
13:54:37 <dihedral> and we will not have time to rewrite the network handling of ottd in the next 30 mins
13:54:59 <Rubidium> Phazorx: just cut *all* strings ;)
13:55:08 <Rubidium> solves the assertions
13:55:20 <dihedral> looking forward to my client list ;-D
13:55:33 <Phazorx> Rubidium: it is meant as a hack now
13:55:38 <Phazorx> we just try to get it working
13:56:12 <Phazorx> if dihedral is correct and the reason is pre-game info packet - we dont really care if a player knows whether there are 35 of 25 players
13:56:44 <Rubidium> Phazorx: if only that packet was used to determine what buttons to show in the pre-game window, like join as spectator and such...
13:57:04 <Phazorx> Rubidium: vut we only let join as specs
13:57:07 <Rubidium> and not getting the packet (or a part of the packet, which OTTD then discards because it is invalid)
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13:57:20 <Rubidium> means that you will not be able to join at all
13:57:41 <Rubidium> makes the assertion go away at the cost of not being able to join
13:57:50 <cybermage> Is somewhere any howto how to run dedicated server ?
13:58:08 <dihedral> Rubidium: if just letting the packet appear as if no clients were in a company
13:58:10 <cybermage> especially how to configure dedicated server ?
13:58:12 <dihedral> that should be enough
14:00:15 * Rubidium is gone for well... at least today ;)
14:05:57 <cybermage> Can someone help me, how to setup linux server with admin password please ? I am unable to find it on official site. Thank you
14:13:05 <fjb> I'm having a question about nfo actions, again. :-) In which action does the vihicle id hide? I'm too stupid to find it.
14:13:47 <Maedhros> well, it's specified in actions 0 and 3, if you want to change properties and graphics, respectively
14:16:19 <fjb> Some vehicles in two sets seam to use the same ids. Now I will try to change on set.
14:17:32 <fjb> Looks like action3 ids is what i'm looking for.
14:17:32 <dihedral> i found no other packet that tries to squish as much data in one packet than PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO
14:20:26 <Maedhros> what are the problems you're having then?
14:20:58 <cybermage> Problem realizing, when running -D without -f can accept commands
14:24:48 <Maedhros> umm, i don't understand :)
14:25:12 <Maedhros> you can't give the dedicated server commands if you fork it into the background, but you can otherwise
14:25:46 <Maedhros> and as far as i remember, you should only need to enter the rcon password once, and it'll be saved in the config file after that
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14:26:16 <cybermage> does someone have functional config file please?
14:30:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> cybermage: if you start the game without config, and then exit it normally, it creates a default config file
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14:40:37 <cybermage> Eddi|zuHause2: thanks
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14:56:48 <cybermage> Guys, is it possible to make chat history longer ?
14:57:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> use the console as chatlog
14:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can log console output into a file
14:58:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> or even use autopilot as a IRC bridge to a channel
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15:30:56 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain
15:31:27 *** TrueBrain changes topic to "0.5.3 | World Wide OpenTTD Game Day, join #wwottdgd, and play with 54 other players in one server!"
15:31:34 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain
15:35:37 <TrueBrain> @kick Sacro This on the other hand, does work
15:35:37 *** Sacro was kicked by DorpsGek (This on the other hand, does work)
15:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> how about you picking on people who can fight back? :p
15:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> if i only had the bandwidth...
15:51:55 <fjb> Patching GRFs is fun. :-) Now I only have to learn how to create a GRF...
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16:07:26 <TrueBrain> microsoft sucks! You _need_ the AAC Media Update if you want to play back a mp4 or a mov, even if the file doesn't contain any AAC data...
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16:12:17 <fjb> Microsoft free zone here. :-)
16:12:38 <TrueBrain> which in fact is rather nice
16:14:37 <dihedral> we reached the sign limit :-D
16:14:48 <TrueBrain> dihedral: no suprise
16:15:01 <dihedral> but funny, nobody thought of that
16:17:58 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: we reached it like one year into the game
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16:25:07 <kippari> Hello! I'd like some help. Is it possible to get computer players to multiplayer game? And if it is possible, how to enable them?
16:30:35 *** bluebear_ has joined #openttd
16:33:49 <fjb> kippari: Find more real players. :-)
16:35:53 *** bluebear_ is now known as bluebear
16:39:24 <kippari> fjb: thanks... =) I and my friend are such newbies, that we would have liked to play the game by ourselves (and with some AIs)
16:39:52 <kippari> But thanks for your information. I won't waste any more time trying
16:41:14 <fjb> kippari: The ai is so stupid, you really don't want it in a game. .-)
16:42:39 *** vitor is now known as Klanticus
16:50:43 <fjb> The more you help the people, the unhappier and more demanding they get. :-(
16:55:04 <fjb> When you found a new industry, is there a way to know what layout it will have in advance?
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16:56:09 <fjb> Ok, does the layout change randomly?
16:56:24 <glx> it is randomly chosen on construction
16:58:24 <fjb> Hm, George's tourist centers need different terraforming. I try to build one and it says you can't build there. I do the proper terra forming and do a next try. Now it gives me another layout that complains about wrong terra forming. :-(
16:59:45 *** thgergo has joined #openttd
16:59:57 <fjb> Ok, at least I didn't do anything wrong. It's kind of a game in the game...
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17:04:29 <bruce89> _Ben_: it would be nice if they just provided a patch
17:05:15 <_Ben_> meh, good enough for me, this is sweet
17:06:51 <bruce89> I'm downloding the client anyway
17:10:57 <fjb> Is there a way to see the ids of all vehicles in a game?
17:12:06 *** skidd13 has joined #openttd
17:16:55 <bruce89> but not as much activity as usual
17:19:14 <bruce89> the map's a bit flat and dull though
17:23:21 *** AntB is now known as Guest111
17:28:27 <fjb> Can you bouild canals over bridges?
17:31:50 <fjb> Sacro: Yes, ships going over the a bridge, not under it.
17:34:19 <_Ben_> wouldn't a long viecle have issues when the sprites overlap?
17:35:45 <fjb> _Ben_: It only looks kind of stange...
17:36:17 <_Ben_> where is that image linked from, thats quite cool, I think there the rapid's tiles I made
17:37:49 <bruce89> _Ben_: still issues with copyrights
17:39:53 <fjb> I hope we will have rivers in OpenTTD soon. The last comits look promising.
17:40:10 <bruce89> people not allowing it being distributed
17:40:50 <_Ben_> yeah, what are you talking about specifically? Sorry, I'm playing the game at the sec, can't follow
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17:58:24 <Luukland> Zou ik je mogen queryen?
18:00:33 <Luukland> Ob ich Der darf queryen :)
18:00:55 <fjb> Please speak english here.
18:01:40 <fjb> Maybe we understand what you are tryieng to say then.
18:12:55 <DorpsGek> Sacro: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 0 days, 3 hours, 21 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <peter1138> _minime_, looks good to me
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21:44:24 <skidd13> Is anyone of the devs here who has played with peter's opengl patch?
21:48:26 <Bjarni> this means I haven't played with it ;)
21:48:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> great, i have a town that does not accept passengers :p
21:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> 2 houses with 3/8 passengers, one gas station with 1/8 passengers and a water tower with nothing
21:50:37 <Bjarni> that's less than 8/8... so yes it shouldn't accept passengers
21:50:53 <Bjarni> now the question is if it's a wanted feature
21:51:13 <Bjarni> to have towns you can't increase in size in the normal way
21:52:09 <TrueBrain> skidd13: as it wasn't finished, I only tested the tests :p
21:52:16 <TrueBrain> which works pretty well.. just some things are hard to finish :)
21:52:22 <TrueBrain> skidd13: you get mersanne to work? :)
21:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> if i understood things correctly, i don't actually have to deliver anything for the town to grow
21:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> just service the station
21:53:00 <Bjarni> but how do you service the station when it accepts nothing? :)
21:53:16 <Bjarni> well... you can bring water, but what if it wasn't a desert town?
21:53:59 <Bjarni> water is needed for the town to grow, but is it enough?... actually I can't remember if it can grow without passengers
21:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, the water tower is just decorative ;)
21:58:46 <Bjarni> so the station accepts nothing at all?
21:59:10 <fjb> Hm, do towns not grow even if you don't deliver pessengers? Just let the trains stop there.
22:00:04 <Bjarni> then you would pick up the few passengers from the town
22:00:18 <Bjarni> and get a good rating as you should be able to pick up a whole lot of them
22:00:28 *** Diabolic1Angel is now known as Diabolic-Angel
22:01:48 <fjb> Yes. As far as I know towns start to grow even if you only pick pessengers up there.
22:03:35 <fjb> Waht is action D1? Or what else is that in the first sprite of the grf?
22:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> i got a segmentation fault...
22:08:19 <Rubidium> first sprite is number of sprites in the grf
22:08:26 <skidd13> TrueBrain: (Opengl) Do you know wich libs were needed?
22:08:26 <skidd13> (Mersenne) checked FS 1341?
22:08:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i can't load the autosave
22:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> it says "inflate() failed"
22:08:58 <TrueBrain> skidd13: -lgl and -lglext
22:09:38 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: then the savegame is apparantly corrupt
22:09:46 <Bjarni> skidd13: you sound really interested in that patch... do you fancy finishing it or something?
22:09:51 <skidd13> TrueBrain: Hmm I got problems with some missing functions for some of the libs (Debian sid)
22:10:10 <TrueBrain> skidd13: therefor it is a test-patch :)
22:10:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> Rubidium: well, it obviously crashed during the autosave
22:10:35 <skidd13> Bjarni: I'm interested. But never did something with OpenGL :( It looks quite painfull.
22:10:46 <TrueBrain> skidd13: I do remember there was something fishy... so c/p me one error line ;)
22:11:05 <Bjarni> it's better to admit it than to do what guyver_ did
22:11:50 <Bjarni> made the game use openGL but in windows only, made the screen upside down and he only got 2 fps on a highend computer
22:12:19 <Bjarni> he said he would fix it and then we never heard from him again
22:12:40 <TrueBrain> well, without the blitter rewrite, opengl was impossible
22:12:41 <skidd13> TrueBrain: I' cleaned up all the libs and so... But it won't take too long to reinstall them.
22:12:43 <TrueBrain> it now is more possible, still hard
22:13:15 <skidd13> Damned german thoroughness :D
22:13:28 <bruce89> it wouldn't be proper GL surely
22:13:41 <Bjarni> maybe I should test this patch as well
22:13:50 <Bjarni> see if I can get it to link correctly on OSX
22:14:25 <skidd13> Bjarni: It's SDL only ATM IIRC
22:16:14 <Bjarni> then it should work out of the box on OSX. The question is if it will reintroduce the bugs we encountered with SDL on OSX so far
22:16:27 <Bjarni> like possible crashes when resizing and so on
22:16:38 <Bjarni> lazy pointer not found crash on exit
22:16:57 <Bjarni> damn annoying stuff :/
22:17:52 <TrueBrain> skidd13: I will test 1341 when I have the time :p
22:18:20 <skidd13> TrueBrain: Not working only concept ;)
22:32:45 <TrueBrain> There is #include <gl.h> in that file? :)
22:33:02 <TrueBrain> I remember having something simular
22:33:11 <TrueBrain> but I can't rmeember what it was :p
22:33:17 <TrueBrain> scope problem? Dunno...
22:33:25 <TrueBrain> check which file has glBegin and stuff
22:33:28 <TrueBrain> and figure out where it goes wrong ;)
22:33:32 <TrueBrain> it really should compile :)
22:34:12 <skidd13> I have some freglut libs bobing up and down in /usr/include/GL
22:35:30 <bruce89> you have gl.h I assume
22:36:00 <TrueBrain> or what extension did peter use?
22:36:21 <skidd13> glut is replaced by freeglut IIRC
22:36:51 <TrueBrain> that can't be a real problem, as glBegin should really be supported :)
22:37:16 <TrueBrain> I was going to bed.. hmm...
22:37:20 <TrueBrain> yeah, 10 minutes ago :p
22:37:22 <skidd13> The thing that wonders me most is that the compiler complains about mglColor4ub but in the code ther is only glColor4ub
22:37:32 <TrueBrain> skidd13: so that _might_ be freeglut ;)
22:37:36 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you know the night is 1 hour longer, don't you?
22:37:46 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it is? Lol! Tnx ;) I forgot :p
22:38:47 <Rubidium> skidd13: next night isn't going to be longer
22:39:32 <Rubidium> still makes the night not 1 hour longer, only next nights ;)
22:44:49 <Rubidium> bruce89: problem is next nights aren't longer...
22:45:11 <bruce89> well, they're not shorter then
22:45:55 <Rubidium> this night (from 23:59 till 6:59) will be 8 hours, next one only 7
22:46:13 <Rubidium> but that's applicable for CE(S)T
22:46:23 <Rubidium> YMMV for different time zones
22:47:21 <Rubidium> so it's 4:47 AM now?
22:48:15 <Rubidium> oh, not Bangladesh Standard Time... too bad
22:48:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i need to be careful with recording times tonight...
22:49:01 <Rubidium> I wonder whether those wwottdgd people though about this ;)
22:51:44 <Rubidium> ah well, you won't be long in BST either ;)
22:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Dannenmuenster%20Transport,%2025.%20Aug%201922.png <- any suggestions on how to properly connect the eastbound route to the planned station?
22:56:54 <bruce89> back to good old GMT then
22:58:02 <dihedral> if i run ./configure will it detect if i have the required libraries to run graphical, and if not configure for dedicated?
22:58:33 <dihedral> or if i do not configure with --enable-dedicated will it still be possible to configure for dedicated?
22:58:53 <glx> dihedral: it defaults to dedicated if no gui lib found
23:01:34 <cybermage> OpenTTD server is working well
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23:14:09 <Thiniad> i need help with some autoreplacing patch
23:14:49 <Thiniad> anyone willing to help?
23:16:27 <Thiniad> allow_replace_different_railtype_r9712 this i found on ottd forums
23:17:17 <Thiniad> but i cant get it work with nightly build, i tried with torquise and buildottd, neither worked
23:17:40 <glx> get 9712 revision, patch sources, update
23:18:14 <Thiniad> got it all, dont know to resolve conflicts
23:18:48 <glx> you need to understand c/c++
23:22:30 <Bjarni> it's a rather old diff
23:22:41 <Bjarni> odds are that it will have conflicts
23:23:51 <Bjarni> also I can't recommend it as we already decided that it doesn't solve the issue in an acceptable way
23:27:00 <Thiniad> heh, i was doing something with torquise merge, all conflicts have been replaced with lines from "mine" and "their" file and later edited those conflits in vs8 but there i find some syntax conflicts which i really dont understand
23:27:38 <Bjarni> then forget about this patch
23:27:51 <Bjarni> the rest of us already has forgotten about it
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23:28:22 <Thiniad> and i spent several hours yesterday in somehow solving it
23:28:46 <Thiniad> i actually found a way but it cant load savegame from nightly build XD
23:30:52 <Bjarni> I know a guy who worked full time on a project. He was suppose to make a machine that could do the same but in a cheaper and more reliable way (a specific one). After half a year the result was: he could prove that it's not physically possible to solve the task based on the theory he worked on
23:31:05 <Bjarni> and you talk about wasting a few hours :P
23:32:32 <Thiniad> thats a dedicated way of life
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23:33:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Dannenmuenster%20Transport,%2029.%20Okt%201922.png <- not particularly pretty, but that should do for a while
23:34:24 <Thiniad> nice mine (what cargo is that??)
23:34:55 * Bjarni is looking for the "not particularly pretty" part in that screenshot
23:35:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's in one of the ECS grfs
23:35:55 <Thiniad> first thing came in my mind is giant coalmine
23:36:21 <Bjarni> do you even know what a coalmine looks like?
23:36:40 <Bjarni> black coaldust everywhere
23:37:19 <Bjarni> they make that to be able to get all the way down with vehicles
23:37:32 <Bjarni> they need to be able to do that nomatter what they dig up
23:38:04 <Bjarni> it's not like they can just yell down the hole and then the sand will jump up on it's own
23:38:25 <Bjarni> well... it could be iron
23:38:54 <bruce89> it looks a bit like the present ore mine
23:39:23 * Ouranogrammi is a traditional tt player (from the 386 era) and found querry's graphics quite impressive
23:39:46 <Bjarni> now that I think about it... sand has a nasty habit of shifting, making so vertical walls pretty unsafe
23:39:47 <Ouranogrammi> it was so clever to be able to make them in sloped ground so they look like they are real!
23:39:51 * glx likes the foundations under the sand pit :)
23:40:49 <Bjarni> Thiniad: notice how the ground is darkened by coal
23:41:00 <Bjarni> it's not as bright as in the screenshot
23:41:18 <Ouranogrammi> is there any patch that makes the player able to raise the current square more
23:41:24 <Ouranogrammi> like support on slopped ground?
23:41:27 <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: send more trains in your passenger station
23:41:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> glx: i occasionally get that one empt
23:42:13 <Thiniad> well life's cruel, but it would be nice if there was a coal mine graphic like that one in pic
23:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> the ECS stuff lacks consistency in the graphics
23:43:11 <Thiniad> is that hard to do, creating grf?
23:43:12 <Bjarni> <Thiniad> well life's cruel <-- since they can dig up coal so close to the surface I take that the ground wasn't white before they began
23:44:38 <Bjarni> * Ouranogrammi is a traditional tt player (from the 386 era) and found querry's graphics quite impressive <--- well... I like the red light at the end of the trains meaning will declare a single pixel graphical change as a nice feature
23:47:48 <dihedral> my computer cannot handle wwottdgd anymore :-P
23:48:23 <Bjarni> you filled up the game with clients and then your computer is too slow to handle it?
23:49:05 <dihedral> the clients is not the problem
23:49:14 <dihedral> it's the size of map and what is inside
23:50:50 <glx> or the server must be slower than all clients
23:51:54 <bruce89> the clients surely shouldn't use so much CPU time though
23:51:54 <Ouranogrammi> Bjarni querrys are one of those things that u see and think "damn it is so plain and pretty, how come I didn't think of it before?"
23:52:38 <glx> bruce89: clients and server does exactly the same things
23:53:22 <glx> Ouranogrammi: it's quarry :)
23:53:24 <bruce89> I suppose the thing can't process that many clients theb
23:53:27 * Ouranogrammi has reached the translation page but doesn't know where to ask for an account :)
23:53:51 <Ouranogrammi> glx at least it doesn't seem all greek to u because greek is my native
23:54:09 * Ouranogrammi reaches for his spiked club and hits the channel with it until it rumbles
23:54:23 <Ouranogrammi> *boom* i wanna make a greek translation! *boom*
23:57:01 <glx> well there use to be a link for wannabe translators
23:57:42 <Thiniad> is there any good guide to creating new grfs?
23:58:28 <Ouranogrammi> i am always googling and rtfm at the begin
23:58:33 <Ouranogrammi> but now i am stuck :S
23:58:45 <Ouranogrammi> where to ask for a translation account?
23:58:55 <glx> Ouranogrammi: anyway you can use one of the mailto links of this page :)
23:59:42 <Ouranogrammi> sounds like good idea
continue to next day ⏵
