IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-09-19
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00:38:52 <Iasjida> hey, in openttd is possible to make trains climb montais fast, like in ttdpatch? =[
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00:41:29 <DaleStan> Iasjida: Not really. Toggling the "realistic acceleration" setting may improve things, but if so, it'll probably make other things worse. Open gives you just on/off, not the 65536 options you get from Patch's mountains and curves switches.
00:42:37 <Belugas> thnaks DaleStan. yet another piece to the puzzle
00:53:27 <Iasjida> Autoslope: OpenTTD status: Not done
00:53:51 <glx> done in nightlies Iasjida
00:54:40 <glx> don't trust the wiki about done and not done stuff (not updated frequently)
00:54:51 <Maedhros> we should really work on that
00:55:05 <Maedhros> documentation isn't our strong point :/
01:00:03 <Iasjida> airplanes are really fast now :s
01:00:24 <Belugas> documentation? what's that? hoo.... a feature we might have to copy from ttdpacth :)
01:00:33 <Belugas> as they do it far better than us!
01:03:12 <_minime_> it would be really nice especially regarding the completeness of newgrf support
01:03:53 <_minime_> right now coding for ottd is often aking to shooting at a blurry fast-moving target ;)
01:04:15 <glx> there's a tool to check if a grf can work in openttd (but it's not very up to date too)
01:04:34 <Maedhros> yeah. ottdcompat was supposed to help with that, but it itself hasn't been updated for a while
01:04:35 <_minime_> well that's not very useful then, is it?
01:04:55 <Maedhros> it works up to 9516 or so :p
01:05:02 <glx> it is mostly for 0.5.x I think
01:05:15 <Maedhros> it was designed for trunk
01:05:31 <_minime_> it would be interesting if such a tool could be part of the ottd source tree
01:05:32 <Maedhros> i was planning on making it useful for stable releases, but never got round to it :)
01:05:47 <_minime_> so that it would take it's data directly from the newgrf related code
01:05:54 <Iasjida> with "realistic acceleration" on the trains climb fast, but slow down a lot in stations =/
01:06:02 <Maedhros> _minime_: i'm not really sure that's possible
01:06:15 <Maedhros> it should be part of openttd's svn at some point though
01:07:51 <glx> in 3rdparty like squirrel
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01:11:51 <Iasjida> can i buy 100% of a players company?
01:12:20 <_minime_> Maedhros: you could potentially specify means to annotate the newgrf-related sources with information about implemented features
01:12:51 <glx> but the player should have a certain age
01:13:20 <_minime_> then have the tool generated based on the current data - because unless someone make sure to keep it up to date, the same thin will happen with it as has now
01:13:51 <Maedhros> _minime_: hmm, good thinking
01:14:05 <Maedhros> although we're back to the point about us being bad at documentation ;)
01:14:28 <glx> it's easier for us to write a tool ;)
01:14:44 <_minime_> and you'll have all the info in the same spot
01:14:57 <_minime_> rather than having to keep two separate apps up to date
01:15:46 <Iasjida> write new tools, forget about documentation
01:16:59 <Iasjida> or do the same ttdpatch tools and than copy and paste their docs
01:17:15 <Maedhros> nah, linking to them is much less effort :p
01:18:37 <Iasjida> damn, with the nightlies some of my old games crashs when i load them
01:19:40 <Maedhros> openttd should be backwards compatible with everything from TTD onwards (at least in theory)
01:22:07 <Iasjida> ive open a ttdpatch game with the openttd 0.5.3 stable. Worked(some signals problems but worked). Now with the r11125 the game crashes
01:23:00 <Maedhros> ah, ttdpatch games might well break
01:23:02 <glx> oh loading ttdpatch games is not supported
01:23:23 <glx> you should be able to load most ttd games though
01:24:00 <Iasjida> i read that, but with the stable version worked xD
01:24:23 <Maedhros> that's more luck than judgement ;)
01:25:49 <Iasjida> with autoslope working, the only thing openttd needs is auto-signals
01:26:13 <Belugas> maybe you should use 0.5.x to convert your ttdp game, then open the converted with nightly?
01:27:26 <Maedhros> just open it in 0.5.3 and save it
01:27:34 <Belugas> open ttdp with 0.5.x. save under 0.5.x
01:27:39 <Iasjida> i already done this xD
01:28:28 <Maedhros> that's definitely a bug then. anything saved with 0.5.x shouldn't crash the nightlies
01:28:43 <glx> what do you mean by auto-signals?
01:29:02 <Iasjida> some problem with water_map.h and IS_INT_INSIDE
01:29:25 <Maedhros> "some problem" isn't really enough information to help us fix anything :p
01:29:42 <glx> we need at least the full message :)
01:29:43 <Iasjida> last time i tried, the signals not swtiched to pre-signals automactly
01:30:04 <Maedhros> they never have, in fact
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01:31:46 <Iasjida> Expression: IS_INT_INSIDE(_m[t].m5, DEPOT_NORTH,DEPOT_END)
01:32:29 <Phazorx> is there some stat that is related to amount of road construction per company?
01:32:34 <Phazorx> or amount of tiles owned by player?
01:32:39 <Phazorx> and property maintainace apprently is based on number of stations (not station tiles) ?
01:37:01 <Iasjida> Change slope on non-empty tiles (Autoslope) now is WIP in the WIKI =D
01:41:27 <Iasjida> what the diference between Path Based Signaling and pre-signals? :S
01:50:36 <Phazorx> PBS is a concept used for allowing multiple trains to pass through same signal block, pre-singlas are types of signals used in game
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07:18:33 <Wolf01> does c/c++ evaluate all the conditions in a if statement also if the first is not valid? like if (cond != null && cond == x)
07:20:54 <Noldo> no if the && operator isn't overloaded
07:23:47 <TrueBrain> rather: of course not! Simple example: if (p == NULL || *p == '\0') <- you want this to work ;)
07:33:40 <N101> hello all. i have one quick question. is there a patch which records how much track you have placed?
07:34:23 <N101> when i say patch i mean addon
07:35:22 <Noldo> not that I know of, but Celestar did some track maintenance code some time and it should have most of the stuff needed for that
07:40:02 <esco> Do you know have anybody ever tried to build patch to make possible to use other companies railroads by player own trains...
07:40:19 <Wolf01> yes, is called subsidiaries
07:40:40 <Wolf01> you can find it in the MiniIN
07:40:57 <N101> is the MiniIN still developed?
07:41:20 <esco> with which path finding system it works?
07:42:30 <Wolf01> no, is a dead project, you might find it around
07:43:40 <N101> thanks. is there any other project that is similar?
07:45:11 <esco> maybe i will try to weak existing path finding systems...
07:45:57 <Wolf01> similar projects appear like mushrooms, the current is the ChrisIN
07:46:17 <Noldo> there has been some talk about reviving subsidiaries
07:47:22 <esco> It would be nice to rent my rail network for other players...
07:49:03 <esco> They would pay for using my network in day basis...
07:49:48 <esco> anyway, I will go to eat now... have a nice day...
07:51:12 <N101> i have dinner to make. thanks for the links Wolf
07:56:52 <Wolf01> i should go to have breakfast instead.. if i can get up from the bed (bad back-ache)
08:00:51 <Wolf01> TrueBrain, could you change the category of one bugfix? i wrongly selected newstation, but is a gui problem (related to newstations)
08:01:45 <Wolf01> i can't understand why is not possible to edit owned posts on flyspray
08:01:56 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: neither can I
08:02:32 <TrueBrain> (understand why it is not possible that is)
08:02:36 <TrueBrain> as requested, FS changed
08:06:42 <Phazorx> is there some stat that is related to amount of road construction per company?
08:06:46 <Phazorx> or amount of tiles owned by player?
08:06:56 <Phazorx> and property maintainace apprently is based on number of stations (not station tiles) ?
08:11:14 <N101> Phazorx did you test this? with the Property maintainace?
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11:42:02 <AmiXwoktest> hello. installed latest nightly build
11:42:25 <AmiXwoktest> i see it changes my roads and rail tracks
11:42:41 <AmiXwoktest> but i cant build tramtracks etc
11:43:13 <AmiXwoktest> is there a tramtrack.grf which is good?
11:47:28 <mikl> AmiXwoktest: No, they're all evil ;)
11:47:34 <Wolf01> i think you need vehicles
11:47:44 <Wolf01> tracks only are useless
11:57:52 <AmiXwoktest> i understand, hehe
11:58:03 <AmiXwoktest> but is there any recommended tramtracks and trains etc?
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13:17:31 <DorpsGek> Tefad: Error: Invalid <number> for base 9: 1.1
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15:28:28 <skidd13> I noticed that the new autoslope isn't availible in scenarion editor. Is that intended?
15:28:33 <frosch123> It is only available to real players
15:28:42 <frosch123> Should it be available in scenario editor?
15:28:56 <frosch123> What is current_player there?
15:38:02 <boekabart> if I recall correctly
15:38:19 <skidd13> I'd use || mode == SCENARIO_EDITOR or something
15:38:19 <skidd13> and check that the player is no town
15:38:19 <boekabart> frosch123: you should be able to find plenty examples where the check is done: RealPlayer || SCEN_EDIT
15:38:20 <boekabart> actually, maybe you can disallow it just for TOWN and WATER player.
15:38:20 <boekabart> (and AI player??) ;)
15:38:20 <frosch123> it is diabled for them
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15:39:14 <frosch123> But autoslope must not be enabled during world generation
15:41:03 <boekabart> frosch123: are you sure? why does it need to set _gen_w ?
15:41:09 <frosch123> _generating_world = true; // used to create green terraformed land
15:41:14 <Belugas> the point i wanted to bring is that if ttdp does not provide it, we shold not either
15:43:08 <skidd13> Flyspray dislike to add my files somehow. ?!?
15:43:10 <boekabart> when raising/lowerign tile corners it does stay green, indeed... but when using leveling tool, it doesnt!
15:43:10 <Belugas> further more, imho, it should help player, not scenario creator.
15:43:10 <Belugas> after all, the creator have all his time to do stuff, not the player
15:43:17 <boekabart> frosch123: what would autoslope ever DO/change during world-gen?
15:43:33 <boekabart> Belugas: you do have a point - but still, it's weird if it works in one place but not the other
15:43:37 <frosch123> towns generation etc..
15:43:38 <elmex> is something wrong with the website or svn?
15:44:33 <skidd13> It would be helpfull during the redesign of a random grown town.
15:45:37 <De_Ghosty> how you compile a stand alone exe with cygwin
15:45:52 <De_Ghosty> i don't wanna attach the cygwin lib with it
15:46:50 <DaleStan> De_Ghosty: -mno_cygwin. But I'm pretty sure that's default for Open's Cygwin builds.
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15:47:19 <DaleStan> ... Except that it's -mno-cygwin .
15:48:14 <Belugas> boekabart, there are a few things that do not work the same between scenario and game mode ;)
15:48:44 <boekabart> i know - found that out when playing with the sea level stuff
15:52:36 <TrueBrain> elmex: the system gave a hickup, should be fine now again
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15:59:34 <Belugas> [11:43] <skidd13> Flyspray dislike to add my files somehow. ?!? <--- You've posted way too many !! lol
16:01:04 <skidd13> "way too many" too fast or too much?
16:01:25 <boekabart> too many, make a new account. :)
16:01:38 <Belugas> just a joke, skidd13 ;)
16:01:48 <Belugas> the fs1161 has been populated quite a lot
16:02:00 <Belugas> but no, totally irrelevant
16:02:24 <skidd13> Belugas: I like to keep the others up2date
16:02:55 <frosch123> I guess, setting _current_player = 0 in CommonRaiseLowerBigLand(), and revert it afterward, will enabled autoslope in editor.
16:03:12 <frosch123> But, does someone know a nicer way?
16:03:51 <frosch123> I cannot find a way using GM_EDITOR.
16:05:50 <skidd13> frosch123: where's the check: (IsValidPlayer(current_player) && !_is_old_ai_player)
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16:12:14 <De_Ghosty> sooo anyone know how to compile a standalone exe with cygwin that doesn't require and addon lib?
16:13:46 <skidd13> frosh123: What about:
16:13:46 <skidd13> (_patches.autoslope && !_is_old_ai_player && (IsValidPlayer(_current_player) || (_current_player == OWNER_NONE && _game_mode == GM_EDITOR)))
16:14:22 <Bjarni> De_Ghosty: you want to make a static build
16:15:11 <Bjarni> but I'm not sure that it will work on cygwin... you see, we only verified that it works on OSX and MorphOS and it's known not to work on at least some linux distributions
16:17:12 <Bjarni> I think there was an issue with libpng and cygwin... something about failing to link statically and crashing when linking dynamically... or something
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16:19:07 <boekabart> yyeeey, deepwater is up-to-date again
16:25:10 <boekabart> had a bug (transparancy): GB(trans_opt, 1, 8) was done on a byte
16:27:37 <Wolf01> i asked to make it uint, but nobody wanted to apply my patch
16:28:12 <boekabart> well it is wrong only after adding transparant water option :)
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16:28:45 <boekabart> GB/SB should become a template fn which asserts the parameters are 'useful'
16:29:09 <Wolf01> i think you can leave the transparent loading indicators, which is made by patches now
16:29:18 <Wolf01> and use it for water transparency
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16:29:50 <Wolf01> somebody added a widget for the loading indicators transparency
16:30:02 <Wolf01> which i find very useless
16:30:25 <boekabart> deepwater has the extra transp. option for water
16:30:38 <boekabart> it just didn't toggle along with 'X'
16:30:52 <Wolf01> yes but since the variable is limited to 8 bits, you need to make it larger
16:31:02 <Wolf01> or remove useless widgets
16:31:21 <boekabart> the _transp_option one isn't, only the static one in the toggle fn
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16:37:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11128 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: a lot of graphical glitches by changing some bounding boxes. It's not perfect yet, but a *very* good step into the right direction. Patch by frosch.
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16:56:20 <Rubidium> both int and asdf are identifiers (if I read the specs correctly)
16:57:15 <Rubidium> "name is a use of an identifier in a context that determines its meaning (e.g. class-name, typedef-name)." and "-4- A name is a use of an identifier (lex.name) that denotes an entity or label (stmt.goto, stmt.label)."
16:59:34 <De_Ghosty> is 4 allowed in identifier?
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17:37:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11129 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: update some TextID to StringID 'translations' to reflect changes in language files
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17:59:12 <Bjarni> it crashes all the time
17:59:36 <Bjarni> I decided to download an update for it and the download contained an exe even though I asked for the mac version ....
17:59:42 <Bjarni> time to look for a new scanner tool
18:04:43 *** Farden123 is now known as Farden
18:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> "help, i downloaded this virus from a website, how do i get a compatible OS for it?"
18:08:07 <Bjarni> At this time due to the design of the MAC OS X operating system we are unable to design a trial version. The only way to make a trial version for OS X is to make it a self-destructive trial; this means that any data within the trial would be destroyed or wiped out when the trial time ended and that would mean any data stored in the program would be lost.
18:08:34 <mcbane> is that made by microsoft? =P
18:08:49 <mcbane> the logic would fit em.
18:09:17 <Bjarni> it's made by some company called newsoft inc
18:12:05 <Rubidium> "This application will self-destructing in ..."
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18:13:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> "if you take this mission, the secretary will deny any knowledge"
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18:16:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11130 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1207]: towns build roads that weren't connected to any other road.
18:21:57 <Progman> Rubidium: does that also rejects town building roads even if there no road?
18:24:39 <Bjarni> hmm.... looks like the scanner hardware guys decided not to use that scanner software anymore
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18:33:04 <DorpsGek> dihedral: hylje was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <hylje> people
18:33:22 <_42_> dihedral, hylje is on #openttdcoop right now.
18:36:59 <DorpsGek> Bjarni: I have not seen CIA-16.
18:37:12 <Bjarni> heh... looks like we only get the low end
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18:49:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11131 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix (r11126): forgot to commit the changes that performed the actual fix.
18:55:49 <dihedral> Rubidium: nice commit :-D
18:59:43 <Ammler> dihedral: _minime_ is the guy we are talking about
19:00:35 <dihedral> Ammler: you dont by any chance have an email address from that guy?
19:00:39 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttd
19:01:18 <Ammler> oh, no, but he is here and also in tt-forums
19:02:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11132 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: NewGRFs seem to assume that STR_NULL is an empty string or so.
19:05:18 <_minime_> Ammler: I hope you're only saying nice things about me ;)
19:05:51 <Ammler> sadly, I don't know other things about you
19:06:09 <dihedral> _minime_: hello there
19:07:41 <Ammler> I told him about your Banner Script
19:08:26 <dihedral> hence i want you to look at it :-)
19:10:12 <_minime_> something's broken there
19:10:19 <_minime_> i get a 404 in that dir
19:10:33 <dihedral> yeah - trac... does not like empty folders
19:11:18 <SpComb> mm, remotely triggered crashes of servers and/or clients
19:12:04 <dihedral> what is that SpComb ?
19:12:34 <_minime_> dihedral: looks like some nice work you've done there
19:12:42 <glx> it's in 0.5.3 thread on the forum
19:12:43 <SpComb> some kind of suitable buffer overflow, or something more harmless?
19:12:49 <SpComb> and on the openttd.org front page
19:13:13 <_minime_> mind you, i'm not too big on php - that banner was just a quick hack for a friend
19:13:25 <_minime_> and i haven't really gone back to it since I write it
19:13:48 <dihedral> i would love to make use of some snipets
19:14:02 <Rubidium> SpComb: the NULL[0] and *NULL kind of remotely triggered crashes
19:14:03 <dihedral> but hate grabbing code from elsewhere
19:14:21 <Rubidium> and remote triggering of assertions
19:15:28 <dihedral> shame - i was hoping you would like to have a go at it :-D
19:15:41 <_minime_> well, maybe at some point
19:15:54 <_minime_> but i've got plenty to do at the moment
19:15:59 <dihedral> i shall have a snoop around your source :-D
19:16:18 <_minime_> lately i've been playing around with boost::spirit
19:16:42 <_minime_> not to mention a ton of stuff to do for work
19:16:44 <dihedral> i have never done php-imageing stuff
19:16:53 <dihedral> what's boost::spirit?
19:17:01 <dihedral> that sounds like some church thing :-P
19:17:18 <_minime_> it's a c++ library for writing parsers
19:19:29 <_minime_> anyway, i'll catch ya later
19:19:41 <_minime_> gimme a should if you need something
19:26:00 *** paul__ is now known as Dephenom
19:27:05 <Bjarni> <_minime_> Ammler: I hope you're only saying nice things about me ;) <-- sure.... we only talk nice about people in this channel
19:27:14 <Bjarni> otherwise we wouldn't need PMs :P
19:29:21 <Ammler> hmm, is there something like a whisper mode ?
19:30:29 <Bjarni> well... somebody removed the ability to remove voice from regular users in here
19:30:48 <Bjarni> in other words: removing voice from somebody without voice
19:31:00 <Bjarni> so nobody has to whisper
19:31:29 <Bjarni> it was great fun to all of a sudden remove voice from some guy in here and they almost always reacted like "wtf... When did I get voice?" :D
19:31:56 <Bjarni> well... usually I used it as "shut up"
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19:35:08 <SpComb> gah, how annoying, I can't run a server behind my NAT and then join it from a second box behind said NAT via the master server list
19:35:49 <SpComb> as my buffalo can't handle routing traffic from the LAN interface through its NAT table and out the LAN itself
19:36:14 <Noldo> what is the ip that your server gives to masterserver?
19:36:41 <Bjarni> I don't think I would have a problem doing that, but to be honest I never tried it
19:36:51 <Bjarni> either I'm all alone or it will be LAN only
19:36:59 <SpComb> the IP that my buffalo's WAN interface has, I beleive, the masterserver probably uses the IP that the datagram came from?
19:37:19 * SpComb is trying to develop/test MyOTTD with his new network setup
19:37:33 <Noldo> That sounds like natural asumption
19:38:05 <SpComb> at least I found undocumented support for port ranges in the NAT table configuration
19:38:34 <Noldo> are the openttd port forwarded from the buffalo to the server?
19:39:10 <SpComb> yes, I assume that the server works through it, it certainly shows up in the master server list, i.e. the master server is able to query it
19:39:32 <Bjarni> you are using an outdated version
19:39:53 <SpComb> I'll add the 0.5.3 release to the list of supported versions once I get around to it
19:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> even worse, an outdated testing version
19:40:12 <SpComb> what's interesting is that the console shows that it registers to the masterserver, and it gets queried by the masterserver, but openttd doesn't realize that :/
19:40:25 <SpComb> 1: event: dbg: [NET] Resolved master.openttd.org to 81.171.98.111
19:40:25 <SpComb> 1: event: dbg: [NET][UDP] Advertising to master server
19:40:25 <SpComb> 1: event: dbg: [NET][UDP] Queried from 81.171.98.111
19:40:41 <SpComb> although, wouldn't the UDP packet show up as coming from 192.168.11.1, not 81.171.98.111?
19:40:42 <dihedral> what's wrong with that?
19:40:59 <SpComb> shouldn't it say "registered with master server" after that?
19:41:11 <Rubidium> most, if not ALL Cable/DSL routers do not (support to) route LAN traffic back in the LAN
19:41:12 <SpComb> true, the reply gets routed out normally
19:41:15 <dihedral> look at the source, then you will know what is 'should' say
19:41:16 <glx> SpComb: try lan mode to join
19:41:33 <Rubidium> if it shows on the server list it is registered
19:41:50 <Rubidium> and it can be reached from people on the internet
19:41:59 <SpComb> yeah, I know, it is registered, the only piece of trouble was that I couldn't join it via the list of Internet servers :)
19:42:09 <SpComb> which is more of a cosmetic problem
19:42:14 <Rubidium> because your router doesn't support it
19:52:13 <Bjarni> do anybody know if you have an image in MS word (don't ask why it's in use) and you scale it down, can you get word to resize the image to the displayed size?
19:52:46 <Bjarni> I mean... since it's a big image, it's scaled to way less than 50% of the size, but the .doc file appears to contain the full image
19:53:33 <Rubidium> Bjarni: right click on the image, properties -> on some of the tabs there's "Compress" that might do what you want
19:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> Bjarni: i'd say use an image manipulation program to downscale the image
19:56:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> word is likely to use some kind of mini-vector-graphics, which means the image is downsized on view, not stored (might increase resolution on printing etc.)
19:57:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> printers typically have much higher resolution than screens
20:00:58 <Bjarni> I can't find any compress :(
20:01:48 <Rubidium> maybe you've got a lesser form of Word ;)
20:02:27 <Rubidium> or you are looking for the word "Compress" in the Danish version of Word
20:02:51 <Bjarni> it's not a translation issue
20:03:23 <Bjarni> so I go for the fact that MS decided that I shouldn't be able to solve this easily
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20:19:35 <dihedral> net_frame_freq - what's your preferences for this value?
20:19:58 <dihedral> and what appart from saving bandwidth do i get when using a lower level?
20:21:06 <Rubidium> lower != saving bandwidth
20:21:12 <Rubidium> lower -> quicker respones
20:21:18 <Rubidium> higher means laggy building
20:21:36 <dihedral> higher values = saving bw?
20:22:02 <dihedral> does this value have influence on cpu?
20:22:16 <Rubidium> yes, but it's negligable
20:22:29 <dihedral> what advantage would there be to set a higher value?
20:23:03 <dihedral> yeah - i dont really care for lower bw, anything else? :-)
20:23:28 <Rubidium> the person who has thought of that must've been insane
20:24:09 <glx> <Rubidium> glx: not really <-- they have a little more time to execute the command
20:24:22 <Rubidium> it's like receiving net_frame_freq - 1 less packets that need to be processed, not quite the way to reduce load
20:24:35 <Rubidium> and they do not get more time for executing the commands.
20:24:48 <Rubidium> when the client is lagging 4 game days behind it gets kicked
20:24:58 <Rubidium> it does not depend on net_frame_freq
20:25:05 <dihedral> SpComb: wtf is that?
20:26:47 <dihedral> Rubidium: what advantage would net_sync_freq = 74 bring me, rather than having that set to 100?
20:26:56 <SpComb> dihedral: MyOTTD actually manages the server, like, it runs it, you can configure it, control it, and create new ones
20:27:18 <SpComb> and it pulls the status info from the game via the console, not via UDP queries
20:27:19 <dihedral> i.e. the web server user running screen?\
20:27:32 <SpComb> no, it'a custom python daemon
20:27:45 <dihedral> still run by the webserver user?
20:27:54 <Rubidium> dihedral: that desyncs are (on average) detected a few ticks earlier
20:28:20 <SpComb> dihedral: by whoever runs the daemon, it's a seperate process from the web server, which in itself is a seperate process from apache or lighttpd
20:28:30 <SpComb> currently it's running under my user - terom
20:28:34 <dihedral> so that would not avoid desyncs?
20:29:07 <dihedral> SpComb: so the webapp talks to a socket?
20:29:23 <dihedral> Rubidium: why then would someone want to change those values?
20:29:34 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
20:29:39 <SpComb> the webapp talks to the db and to the daemon (using JSON over HTTP)
20:29:56 <Rubidium> dihedral: why should I know that?
20:31:20 <dihedral> SpComb: chat, kick, ban, shared ban?
20:31:31 <SpComb> once I get around to them
20:31:52 <SpComb> and savegames, newgrfs, and more config stuff
20:32:53 <SpComb> there's a lot of work left to do, but I think it's quite an interesting idea
20:33:32 <dihedral> and if you do it, i dont have to :-)
20:36:10 <dihedral> Rubidium: would terragenisis (if that's what it's called) be able to only reconstruct parts of the land?
20:36:25 <dihedral> say for example someone phloods a part of the map
20:36:40 <SpComb> but the idea is to be a web management interface for a dedicated OpenTTD server, as well as a service to run your own dedicated server
20:36:46 <dihedral> would it be possible to have the map generator fix the land again?
20:37:07 <Rubidium> in a running network game?
20:37:25 <Rubidium> don't think you would want that as it's very prone for hacking attempts and such
20:37:59 <dihedral> i.e. ran as an rcon command, passing 2 coords of a rectangle defining the area to rebuild
20:38:07 <Ammler> [22:35] <dihedral> and if you do it, i dont have to :-) <-- you can do it too, better to have 2, then none
20:38:47 <dihedral> besides i am a php person, not python :-(
20:40:21 <Rubidium> dihedral: there would (most likely) be too much variables to perform it exactly the same on all computers
20:41:05 <dihedral> would only have to sneak in some doCommands
20:41:25 <dihedral> or is that a too dirty solution?
20:42:04 <Rubidium> you first have to clear a large area without making anybody pay
20:42:24 <Rubidium> then you have to "make" the landscape without making anybody pay
20:42:41 <Rubidium> and what would "bad" people do?
20:42:51 <Rubidium> perform those commands as clients
20:43:11 <Rubidium> i.e. clearing the whole map with "magic" dynamite
20:43:41 <Rubidium> and you need extramagic dynamite as you need to remove all vehicles in that area too
20:43:46 <dihedral> na - the server would not have to accept those doCommands, only send them out to clients
20:44:14 <Rubidium> otherwise you would just place a few ships and it would be *impossible* to reset the land
20:44:15 <dihedral> and ignore tiles that have company owned stuff on them
20:44:33 <Rubidium> that ignoring would complexify it even more
20:44:49 <Rubidium> then you just buy a lot of canal
20:45:01 <Rubidium> and you can't change the stuff at all
20:45:19 <dihedral> how about limiting the amount of land that can be terraformed at once
20:45:37 <dihedral> making flooding a larger area a tedios something
20:45:50 <dihedral> how do people flood the map
20:46:02 <dihedral> drag and drop a larger area
20:46:09 <dihedral> using the level land tool
20:46:32 <Rubidium> for (TileIndex t = 0; t < MapSize(); t++) DoCommandP(t, 0, 0, CMD_LEVEL_LAND);
20:46:49 <Rubidium> I just levels the complete map
20:46:56 <Rubidium> without using the level land tool
20:47:13 <dihedral> but sent the same commands to the server?
20:47:34 <Rubidium> I've just sent like 2048*2048 commands
20:48:33 <dihedral> but then how many people compile their one ottd with that cmd to ruin other games?
20:48:58 <Rubidium> exactly the ones that want to ruin other games
20:49:33 <dihedral> the latest floodings i have seen looked more like hand dreg and dropping
20:52:53 <SpComb> "Like very, very alpha"
20:53:39 <dihedral> Rubidium: concerning breakdowns
20:54:11 <dihedral> would it be possible to have a patch setting, which would define the probability in percent of a breakdown to occure?
20:56:08 <dihedral> that way it would give others more control over the 'realistic' behavior of breakdowns
20:57:55 <dihedral> going to snuggle up to my blanket... good night ladies
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21:37:21 <Ammler> SpComb: yes, if I try to stop
21:46:54 <Ammler> SpComb: now on the mainpage
21:50:54 <SpComb> a couple rough edges...
21:52:24 <SpComb> but all the buttons on "My Servers" should work now, and there's more of them than there were last week
21:58:59 <Ammler> SpComb: strange, now the detail page has 500 :)
22:01:29 <Ammler> SpComb: something like uploading a save and playing it?
22:01:51 <SpComb> savegames are on the TODO list, I implemented the random game thing first
22:02:50 <Progman> btw. you cannot delete a server
22:03:33 <Bjarni> heh.. the freecol homepage is funny
22:03:40 <Bjarni> news: 0.7.2 is released
22:03:56 <Bjarni> right next to "download Freecol 0.7.1"
22:04:05 <SpComb> Progman: it's not enabled, you need to press start first
22:04:25 <Bjarni> they released and posted news about it, but they didn't update the download link :D
22:04:56 <Bjarni> they did... they just didn't update the text in it
22:07:50 <SpComb> another really cool thing would be a google-maps style scrollable screenshot thing, and implementing it would certainly be interesting
22:08:58 <Progman> SpComb: can't view it in my list
22:09:38 <Progman> same goes for server 15
22:10:10 <SpComb> oh, right I need to handle that as well
22:10:12 <Progman> hmm, every new created server cannot checked in the "my list"
22:11:28 <SpComb> (and yeah, it's vulernable to XSS)
22:11:59 <SpComb> you can also modify the id in the url to any id and play around with other user's servers
22:17:04 <Amix> i am gettting nightly build morphos version to work
22:17:14 <Amix> but the osx version wont work
22:17:51 <Amix> and then returns back to osx
22:18:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:19:35 <Bjarni> Amix: which version of OSX and which CPU?
22:21:54 <Amix> but when i try to start nightly build
22:21:55 <Bjarni> but which version of OSX?
22:22:24 <Progman> SpComb: nothing changed
22:22:28 <Bjarni> with no error message?
22:23:15 * SpComb adds --reload to the server command line
22:24:04 <Bjarni> looks like I can compile and execute just fine here
22:25:06 <Bjarni> so it's either CPU specific (unlikely), nightly build server that screwed up or some not so healthy settings in your end
22:25:14 <Amix> my openttd is located on the disk
22:25:21 <Amix> not in aplication folder
22:25:43 <Amix> Bjarni: should i download both
22:26:10 <Bjarni> actually the path I tried to write before went really wrong. It should be "/Applications/Utilities/Console"
22:26:32 <Bjarni> open that app, clean the window and try to open OpenTTD again
22:26:39 <Amix> i have console in the bar
22:27:20 * Bjarni rules out total n00b user
22:27:34 <Amix> so server is the file i should download?
22:27:47 <Bjarni> only if you want to host a server
22:27:59 <Bjarni> I mean a dedicated server
22:28:04 <glx> server version only runs with -D
22:28:07 <Progman> SpComb: now you have tasks to do ;)
22:28:57 <Amix> but what should i download
22:29:17 <Bjarni> that's a universal binary
22:29:33 <Bjarni> you can also pick a CPU specific package to save bandwidth if you like
22:29:34 <SpComb> Progman: should escape HTML in all the most important places now
22:30:21 <Bjarni> I just tested the nightly build as well... works here
22:30:43 <Progman> SpComb: and now no link in the overview works
22:30:59 <Bjarni> Amix: did the console produce anything at all?
22:31:43 <Amix> but then just blinks out
22:32:00 <Amix> Bjarni: i am not used to the console
22:32:38 <SpComb> since there's no delete server feature :P
22:32:52 <Bjarni> terminal is the one with bash shell/tcsh shell or whatever you use
22:33:10 <Bjarni> console is the place where bundle apps write debug output
22:33:30 <Amix> Bjarni: how to start openttd.app from console?
22:33:31 * glx guesses Amix didn't have the required data files in the right place
22:34:07 <Bjarni> just open the console, use the clean window button (get rid of the debug stuff from other apps) and then open OpenTTD normally from finder
22:34:46 <Bjarni> glx: I think so too, but then it should tell that with a nice window
22:36:26 <Amix> i copy 0.3.5 to the openttd dir, it works
22:36:27 <Bjarni> hmm... looks like I changed the text since I made that screenshot
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22:36:49 <Amix> i copy latest nightly build to the same dir, it runs but blinks out
22:37:03 <Bjarni> try to rename/move openttd.cfg and try the nightly build again
22:37:55 <Bjarni> if the config file kills the game, then it would be interesting to look at
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22:40:27 <Amix> i tried to rename the openttd.cfg file
22:40:33 <Bjarni> try to move the nightly build away from your installation (new dir) and try it there
22:40:47 <Bjarni> then it should complain about missing sample.cat
22:41:11 <Bjarni> it would be a good step to verify that it actually fails as expected ;)
22:41:19 <Bjarni> since your issue sounds weird
22:42:27 <Amix> now sample.cat is missing
22:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say ./openttd -d1
22:42:57 <Bjarni> goto Documents/OpenTTD (create it if it's missing)
22:43:20 <Bjarni> put sample.cat in that dir and try again
22:43:30 <Bjarni> now it should complain about some tr*.grf file
22:44:27 <Bjarni> hold down alt while dragging
22:45:05 <glx> your are 'our' morphos user ;)
22:45:14 <Amix> now TRG1R.GRF is missing
22:45:39 <Amix> glx: what do you mean by that?
22:45:40 <Bjarni> give it the 5 TTD grf files in the new data dir
22:45:47 <Bjarni> and now it should work
22:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't that always tokai or so?
22:47:16 <Amix> i am just a morphos user
22:47:23 <Bjarni> I still don't know why upgrading failed though
22:47:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: possibly mix between old and new .grf files?
22:47:57 <Bjarni> works fine for everybody else upgrading
22:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> (the ones shipped with openttd)
22:48:20 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: I placed the mandatory OTTD grf files inside the bundle to avoid that issue
22:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why don't i have a number today?
22:49:00 <Bjarni> so when replacing the bundle to get the new binary, you also replace the lng files and grf files that ships with OpenTTD
22:50:01 <Bjarni> Amix: you didn't manually add old grf files in the data dir in your old installation, did you?
22:50:41 <Capn_Frink> Someone should make a 'quake2-data'-like package for openttd
22:50:43 <Amix> when 0.5.3 was copied over, everything worked
22:51:02 <Bjarni> I mean the data dir in your 0.3.5 installation shouldn't contain files like openttd.grf. You don't have those files there, do you?
22:51:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Capn_Frink: you mean like the one on orudge's site?
22:51:16 <Bjarni> now it's even more weird
22:51:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Capn_Frink: it's 0:50, the day is over...
22:51:54 <Amix> in the 0.3.5 installation
22:52:05 <Capn_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: Where am I
22:52:11 * Bjarni wonders what it's doing there
22:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know?
22:52:18 <Bjarni> anyway it would break something
22:52:24 <Bjarni> the game should tell you that
22:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> why should any time other than mine matter?
22:52:49 <Capn_Frink> What are you? American?
22:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> worse, german :p
22:53:01 <Bjarni> anyway it's working and since you are the first with this issue, I gamble that you will also be the last
22:53:21 <Bjarni> you can't be worse than the Americans
22:53:51 <Capn_Frink> Admittedly, it's a subset, but meh
22:54:04 <Bjarni> that's part of America (even though they properly don't realise that)
22:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> texans are like bavarians ;)
22:54:41 <Bjarni> that sounds bad for Bavaria
22:54:45 <Capn_Frink> What's the difference between Texas and Yogurt?
22:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause> both have a weird dialect, both live in the south of their country, both are thinking their state is the only good one :p
22:54:56 <Bjarni> the spelling of the name for once
22:54:58 <Amix> glx: i know several other morphos users which are playing openttd here in oslo ;)
22:55:15 <Bjarni> Oslo has more than one MorphOS user?
22:55:17 <Capn_Frink> Yogurt has culture.
22:55:59 <Amix> Bjarni: there is atleast 20000 morphos users worldwide
22:56:14 <Amix> + those which have it on their classic amigas
22:57:21 <Bjarni> I don't get why people wants to use such a small OS for their computer. Sure the OS is nice, but the software....
22:57:26 <glx> sorry my brain mixed up morphos and os/2 ;)
22:57:35 <Bjarni> the software is nice, but the offer is limited
22:57:51 <Amix> Bjarni: the OS is fantastic
22:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause> there is openttd
22:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> what else do you need?
22:58:13 <Bjarni> when it comes to games
22:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> there is something other than games?
22:58:31 <Bjarni> but I like to use the computer for other stuff than games
22:58:44 <Amix> i am using morphos for lots
22:58:53 <Bjarni> I only opened a game for one purpose today
22:59:02 <Bjarni> I needed to check the nightly build for Amix
23:00:02 *** Capn_Frink is now known as Prof_Frink
23:00:08 <Amix> Bjarni: i am using morphos for web, irc, ftp, e-mail, SDL games, DTP, Graphics etc
23:00:33 <Bjarni> heh... I just remembered SkyOS
23:01:08 <Bjarni> it would be fun to support it, but the SkyOS guy didn't want to port it correctly, so we don't
23:01:31 <Bjarni> if we did, then we could say "it runs on SkyOS.... we can make it run on anything"
23:02:03 <Amix> morphos is a bit more connected than that
23:02:17 <Amix> its compatible with 68k AmigaOS software aswell
23:05:48 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Does it run on netBSD running on a toaster?
23:14:09 <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Does it run on netBSD running on a toaster? <-- I don't even have to answer to that because the demand for my statement was that we could officially support SkyOS... since we don't, then you can't conclude any support at all
23:14:27 <Bjarni> if (statement) then (a whole lot of support)
23:15:22 <Amix> how about a port for Nintendo DS
23:15:31 <Amix> or even Symbian devices?
23:15:50 <Amix> Nokia N95, Nokia E90 etc
23:18:16 <Amix> but there are millions using symbian worldwide
23:18:47 <ln-> that doesn't make symbian any better.
23:19:25 <ln-> at least it doesn't have symbian.
23:20:24 <Amix> i am betatester of symbian programs. i might not have the same feeling for symbian as you. for the user, symbian is great.
23:21:11 <ln-> i've heard symbian phones have slow user interfaces.
23:22:09 <ln-> a "hello world" program in symbian is ~700 lines.
23:22:42 <Amix> all oses have their weaknesses i guess
23:23:11 <Amix> developers talked about the difficulty to code for PS2
23:23:33 <ln-> nokia employees are said to call it "the piece of shit OS"
23:23:41 <Amix> versus Dreamcast, which was fairly simple compared
23:24:18 <Amix> i am supporting symbian and linux phones as i dont like windows mobile and microsofts goals etc
23:26:33 <ln-> what is the resolution of your E90's screen?
23:27:15 <Amix> switching between the screens is even good
23:27:22 <Amix> the problem with symbian
23:27:58 <Amix> E90 got 128mb internal mem etc
23:28:17 <Amix> compared to my previous N70 with 16mb
23:28:43 <Amix> glx: 800x352 would be ok ;)
23:29:16 <Amix> its the same thing with amigaos
23:29:29 <Amix> more programs run better with more ram
23:32:27 <ln-> 800x352 is still quite small.
23:32:38 <ln-> try to resize your openttd window to that size and play.
23:33:05 <glx> I sometime plays in a 640x640 window
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23:36:25 <Amix> if the icons were moved somehow
23:36:56 <Amix> the web browser which e90 uses, have mousepointer, so i guess that developers have access to it etc
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23:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2024.%20Sep%201925.png
23:44:09 <ln-> unfortunately the screen width is limited to 2048 by default.
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23:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> my CRT that ran on 1600x1200 died, now i have a slightly bigger LCD on 1680x1050
23:45:23 * ln- has 1680x1050 + 1280x1024
23:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause> but now i can watch 16:9 movies in full screen ;)
23:45:59 <ln-> there are still black bars
23:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but much smaller
23:46:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the screen is about 50% wider than the CRT
23:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> cost me like 320€
23:48:00 <ln-> this one was 360€ about a year ago
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23:52:55 <Amix> Eddi|zuHause: which set is that?
23:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the rails are standard, the catenary is dutchcatw.grf
23:53:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the trainset is dbsetxlw.grf
23:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and the landscape is alpinew.grf
23:53:53 <Amix> you should make a site like www.aminet.net
continue to next day ⏵
