IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-09-13
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10:13:43 <Nite> looking for newgrf servers.
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11:01:06 <ln-> hmm, wie fahren 4 personen am billigsten von bremen nach hamburg?
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11:09:06 <ln-> "hmm, how travel 4 persons at cheapest from bremen to hamburg?"
11:09:14 <xander1987> apologies - just setting up my client
11:09:22 <TrueBrain> ln-: simple: by walking!
11:10:38 <ln-> i just booked flights to/from bremen, 35€/person, not bad.
11:24:09 <ln-> TrueBrain: walking is ok, but there are certain time constraints.
11:24:27 <TrueBrain> so you are not looking for the cheapest ;) You have constraints... that changes it all! :p
11:24:43 <TrueBrain> and now it is time for me to do some shopping
11:24:46 <TrueBrain> running low on cola
11:27:46 <TrueBrain> hmm, I can't go... I don't have a key to the main door, and nobody else is home
11:27:49 <TrueBrain> so, I have to wait :)
11:34:21 <ln-> you can go buy 10 liters of coke and drink that outside the door until someone arrives. problem solved.
11:57:20 <TrueBrain> really stupid: the coke wasn't in 1.5L bottles anymore.... :( :(
11:58:43 <TrueBrain> I always love this: bought 7 things, and got a discount on 6 of them :)
11:59:08 <ln-> move to finland, we've got coke in 1.5l bottles.
11:59:20 <TrueBrain> we used to have them
11:59:24 <TrueBrain> but there were supply problems or what ever
11:59:29 <TrueBrain> personally I don't care
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12:29:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11092 /trunk/src/ (blitter/factory.hpp openttd.cpp settings.cpp variables.h): -Add: allow 'blitter=<value>' in openttd.cfg to set the blitter (so you don't have to keep on doing 'openttd -b 32bpp-optimized'..)
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12:54:41 <LiOn> [13:09] <ln-> "hmm, how travel 4 persons at cheapest from bremen to hamburg?"
12:55:26 <LiOn> ln-: DB (IRE, RE, RB, S-Bahn) and regional transport (bus, tram) in Bremen and Hamburg
12:55:28 <LiOn> 26 Euro/up to 5 persons, at weekdays valid from 9am to 3am the following day, at weekend and public holiday valid from midnight to to 3am the following day
12:55:29 <LiOn> travel time about 1-2 hours
12:57:11 <ln-> hmm, also the netherlands isn't very far away from bremen.
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13:04:43 <LiOn> Rome as well - depends on scale :P
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13:08:27 <ln-> yeah, but ~100 km compared to the >1000 km from finland to bremen.
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13:18:25 <LiOn> Yeah, but finally you will arrive there
13:18:34 <LiOn> Specially with no Passengers with specific destinations
13:18:48 <LiOn> All roads lead to Rome. ;)
13:26:31 <ln-> so they say, but does it apply to railroads..
13:32:02 <LiOn> on topic: What does patch setting "Allow removal of more town-owned roads, bridges, etc" do?
13:36:57 <SmatZ_> LiOn: in TTD, you are not allowed to remove town-owned bridges and non-terminal roads
13:37:42 <SmatZ_> you may remove terminal roads
13:39:08 <ln-> do towns ever build tunnels?
13:39:30 <DeGhosty> i don't think i ever seen em do that
13:46:50 <frosch123> oO - now I will get kicked.
13:47:52 * frosch123 just spammed two FS bugs with links to his new patch.
13:50:50 <Belugas> frosch123, that was a very good spam :) therefore, kicking is definitively out of the question ;)
13:51:16 * Belugas hopes to have more spams of this quality!
13:51:36 <Belugas> now that i've seen the result, let see the internals...
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14:01:05 <SmatZ_> frosch123: nice, the idea to draw bounding boxes is really useful
14:02:57 <SmatZ_> maybe you could add MakeWholeScreenDirty() for that function
14:04:55 <SmatZ_> errr it is not very stable :(
14:06:24 <SmatZ_> I mean DrawBoundingBoxesWithCtrlB_r11092.patch
14:06:35 <SmatZ_> I didn't test the actual patch
14:06:43 <frosch123> no, it causes more glitches, than it helps
14:07:15 <frosch123> it is most useful, when opening a vehicle window, scroll to somewhere else, click on "show vehicle" and press "screenshot"
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14:45:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11093 /trunk/src/blitter/factory.hpp: -Fix r11092: also add a DEBUG(driver, 1) if the blitter is loaded, to show which one really loaded
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15:52:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11094 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp:
15:52:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Documentation: Add comments on viewport structures and change an obscure variable name to something a little more meaningfull.
15:52:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Heavily based of frosch's work (FS#1223)
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17:47:43 <_42_> Digitalfox, Celestar (~Jadzia_Da@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de) was last seen quitting #openttd.tgp 7 weeks 6 days 9 hours 21 minutes ago (20.07. 08:26) stating "Quit: Lost terminal" after spending 1 week 3 days 21 hours 2 minutes there.
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18:11:48 <TrueBrain> @kick mcbane If that is all you have to say: '?', try saying it into the thin void or something
18:11:48 *** mcbane was kicked by DorpsGek (If that is all you have to say: '?', try saying it into the thin void or something)
18:12:02 <TrueBrain> YEAH! I finally have tar-support working :) Whoho!
18:14:48 <TrueBrain> for all data/* entries
18:18:13 <TrueBrain> now I need to clean it up and commit it in small steps I guess :p
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18:23:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11095 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
18:23:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: don't abuse 'file_pos' by storing the file_slot in it too, but use a nice seperate variable for it
18:23:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Note: on a side-note, this allows files bigger than 16+ MiB, needed for tar-support
18:26:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11096 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Fix: when 2 different GRF-files had the same name (e.g.: ""), the double-entry checker didn't always work correctly, resulting in multiple entries of the same grf in the list
18:29:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11097 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Codechange: for easy future extension of NewGRF Scanning, split up the functions a bit
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18:30:53 <TrueBrain> all of a sudden my patch isn't that big anymore ;)
18:35:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11098 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Fix r11096: forgot spaces before comments
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18:46:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11099 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio.h gfxinit.cpp newgrf_config.cpp): -Codechange: allow on opening of a file via FioFOpenFile to request the size of the file, so we can keep that in mind
18:50:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11100 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix r11099: darn typos...
18:51:15 <Wolf01> :O 11 revisions to 11111
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18:57:32 <Bjarni> so should we have a new party at your place?
18:57:40 <Eddi|zuHause> whoever reaches 11111 must give out a round of spirits :p
19:01:37 <SmatZ_> there are 11 more typos for sure, so keep correcting... :)
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19:08:46 <TrueBrain> dbg: [misc] Scanning for tars
19:08:46 <TrueBrain> dbg: [misc] Found tar: /prog/openttd/trunk/bin/data/ottdc_grfpack.tar
19:08:46 <TrueBrain> dbg: [misc] Scan complete, found 1 files
19:08:52 <TrueBrain> dbg: [grf] Scanning for NewGRFs
19:08:52 <TrueBrain> dbg: [grf] Scan complete, found 42 files
19:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> does that also handle .gz and .bz2 files?
19:10:54 <Wolf01> and .zip .rar .7z .ace .cab?
19:11:29 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: a big no
19:11:36 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: you want a kick?
19:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not seen a .arj in over 10 years
19:11:56 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: lol, does anyone still know how to make those? :p
19:12:12 <Wolf01> but i think you can add a .zip, for the poor windows users who don't now how to do a .tar
19:12:23 <SmatZ> I used it a lot, util rar came :) ... there is even a winarj
19:12:42 <Bjarni> <TrueBrain> SmatZ: lol, does anyone still know how to make those? :p <-- I do... from DOS... I think I still have some ancient arj software... somewhere
19:12:44 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: there problem :)
19:12:52 <TrueBrain> there is a big difference between all those formats you guys name, and .tar
19:13:08 <TrueBrain> .tar is only a storage format
19:13:18 <TrueBrain> gz, bz2, zip, rar, 7z, ... are all compression formats
19:13:24 <SmatZ> there are already some pack/unpack functions in ottd (for savegames), can't it be used for that purpose?
19:13:38 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: no, as that would require unpacking all files in memory
19:13:45 <TrueBrain> the only thing that can be easy added is gz support
19:13:50 <TrueBrain> as you have gzopen from libz
19:14:05 <TrueBrain> which can handle .gz files just fine
19:14:34 <Bjarni> zlib is not mandatory for compiling, so even though 99,..% has it, we can't assume everybody to have it. The question is if we want to make it mandatory and force the last two people to install it ;)
19:15:00 <Wolf01> and isn't there a windows' storage format?
19:15:41 <Bjarni> I would not have a problem with it as OSX itself depends on zlib, so we know for sure that it can't result in any mac specific bug reports :)
19:15:52 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no need to "force" anyone, if they don't want zlib, they still can use uncompressed tars
19:16:18 <Sacro> would a SparcStation10 run OpenTTD?
19:16:29 <Eddi|zuHause> which is the same behaviour as with savegames
19:16:30 <Belugas> a native window storage format? maybe cab is. zip is now supported "natively" but i doubt it count
19:16:38 <Bjarni> Sacro: if you have the right binary, then I think so
19:17:01 <Bjarni> Sacro: I once compiled OpenTTD for Sun Solaris on Sparc
19:17:01 <Sacro> someone at the local LUG is giving one away
19:17:16 <Bjarni> didn't work well, but that was due to lag between the thin client and the server
19:17:20 <Sacro> but then... they only run at 36-40Mhz
19:17:37 <Bjarni> could still be fun to play with
19:18:08 <Bjarni> Swedish keyboard..... then the computer is useless :P
19:18:54 <Bjarni> actually it would be interesting to see if you could get OpenTTD to play on it... In theory it's not impossible
19:19:19 <Bjarni> and Sparc is a nice design. Don't be fooled by low clock frequency
19:19:29 <Bjarni> (even though 40 MHz is slow)
19:19:59 <Bjarni> don't try 2048x2048 maps :P
19:20:20 <Sacro> possibly the only set in UK circulation
19:20:38 <Sacro> and a SCSI tape station
19:20:53 <Sacro> only problen is it has no IDE support
19:20:55 * Bjarni has working SCSI stuff
19:21:24 <moebius> well, I played the original ttd in a 486-dx2, which surely is way too much slower than a dual sparc @40mhz
19:21:29 <Bjarni> SCSI rules compared to IDE when it's devices from that era
19:21:45 <Bjarni> SCSI uses less CPU time to access, which is kind of important for that system
19:22:24 <moebius> and SCSI is present (in some form) in newer good designs
19:22:35 <Sacro> actually, i don't quite think i can run OpenTTD
19:22:40 <Sacro> it doesn't have a VGA output
19:22:45 <moebius> but Intel screwed up the thing when they released USB xD
19:23:32 <Bjarni> I once made my own unofficial USB2/Firewire test. The very same disk was like 30% faster when I used firewire
19:24:00 <moebius> ...with too much less CPU cycles wasted when using Firewire
19:24:42 <Bjarni> basically I just copied the same huge file to /dev/null and timed it since I lacked a real benchmarking tool
19:24:56 <moebius> at least when I tested in my ibook, using a 3G iPod (which can be attached to both busses)
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19:24:57 <Bjarni> I think it was 2 GB or something (created for the task)
19:25:10 <moebius> the thing went better with firewire
19:25:12 <Sacro> i have to see if anyone else wants it
19:25:19 <moebius> about 18%-20% faster for me
19:25:21 <Sacro> but i'd love it for testing different OS'en
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19:25:40 <Bjarni> Sacro: is it a headless server?
19:26:19 <colle> probably a 13w3 monitor connection
19:26:35 <colle> there are adapters available for 13w3->vga conversion
19:28:33 <Sacro> Bjarni: no, i don't think so
19:29:22 <Bjarni> then I don't see why you shouldn't get it
19:29:37 <Sacro> Bjarni: does your mac have a camera on it?
19:29:56 <Bjarni> you want to spy on me?
19:30:20 <Sacro> no, a friend of a friend is having trouble getting her webcam to work on her mac
19:30:54 <Bjarni> should work out of the box
19:31:02 <Sacro> she wants to use it on msn
19:31:28 <Sacro> mmmm, adium doesn't support webcams
19:31:33 <Bjarni> first step: try it with photobooth (or whatever the name is)
19:31:45 <Bjarni> if it works: blame Microsoft
19:32:13 <Bjarni> if it doesn't: contact Apple and get warranty to fix the issue
19:32:26 <Bjarni> that is, if it's a built in camera
19:32:59 <ln-> Bjarni: do you have a joystick?
19:33:12 <Bjarni> I don't really use it though
19:33:14 <ln-> Bjarni: a force feedback joystick?
19:33:28 <Bjarni> basically I wanted it for UAE :)
19:33:40 <Bjarni> so it's not the best on the marked, but I liked the price
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19:34:04 <TrueBrain> I hate unclear advertising... I want a new TV, and now I have a folder here which says one I might like, for a very good price
19:34:12 <TrueBrain> it only doesn't state which type it is exactly
19:34:21 <TrueBrain> so all I have is the branch and price.. but it can be from VERY poor, to VERY good..
19:34:30 * TrueBrain slaps advertising...
19:35:14 <Bjarni> reminds me of a flier somebody put on my windshield once. It told that on Friday, some restaurant opened and it has special opening offers... only it didn't tell where it was
19:35:25 <Bjarni> I still don't know even where it is
19:37:15 <Bjarni> I think they didn't get the gain/cost radio like they wanted :P
19:37:36 <TrueBrain> yeah, I like my tar suppor
19:37:42 <TrueBrain> I can pack all my original graphics in one file :)
19:37:49 <TrueBrain> and the coop grfs in one
19:38:15 <Sacro> Bjarni: yeah, i think she is going to try aMsn
19:38:56 <Bjarni> please don't highlight me with a line containing Msn again
19:39:03 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: msn msn msn msn
19:39:03 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: msn msn msn msn
19:39:04 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: msn msn msn msn
19:39:04 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: msn msn msn msn
19:39:28 <TrueBrain> remember: you always get what you don't ask
19:39:38 <Bjarni> granted... I told SACRO not to do it :P
19:40:01 <Bjarni> everybody: just don't :P
19:41:49 <Bjarni> well... I don't know how to get MSN working on mac
19:42:05 <Bjarni> and I don't know how to kill it for good on Windows either :s
19:42:09 <Sacro> i just downloaded it, mounted the dmg and copied it to Applications
19:42:29 <Bjarni> that's the mac way to install apps
19:42:40 <Bjarni> but I think it has a setup like nick and stuff
19:42:53 <Bjarni> and don't ask me about that part because I never tried it
19:43:56 <Bjarni> I once used iChat, but stopped because it was even more useless than when IRC goes off topic and it always interrupted me with useless stuff when I did something else
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20:13:12 <ddewilt> is er ergens een admin in de buurt?! krijg geen activatie mailtje :p
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20:14:15 <ddewilt> hij staat bij de ongewenste post :s
20:14:27 <ddewilt> is het in ieder geval opgelost :)
20:14:33 <Belugas> would be kind enough to speak in english, please?
20:15:33 <ddewilt> ow ok... i thought i didn't get an activation mail, but the mail was caught by the junkmail folder in Hotmail :p
20:16:03 <Wolf01> i understood "admin" "activate" "email", so i answered yes because there's orudge aroud ;)
20:18:41 <ddewilt> and now back to the forums ;) see u later guys
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20:21:57 <Wolf01> yeah a [10053] Software caused connection abort :D
20:23:13 <ddewilt> does anybody know when the next version of openttd will be released?
20:24:38 <Progman> bundled with duke nukem forever ;)
20:24:42 <ddewilt> offcourse,, sounds logical :p, but there's no release date for the moment?
20:25:15 <Belugas> you could still use the nighlties...
20:25:27 <Prof_Frink> Progman: Will it run on GNU Hurd?
20:25:44 <ddewilt> ok,, but are they stable?
20:26:00 <SmatZ> GNU Hurd is the target platform, so they must wait until it is stable...
20:26:18 <Wolf01> maybe yes, if TrueBrain did not break all this evening ;)
20:27:26 <Belugas> nighylies are pretty stable allright
20:27:42 <Belugas> been a while since there has been problems
20:27:52 <TrueBrain> and besides, those changes are visible tomorrow night ;)
20:28:05 <ddewilt> i truly cannot wait until new graphics are added (in a stable version) :P
20:28:23 <Belugas> you should use nightlies then....
20:28:27 <TrueBrain> so download the nightly and find yourself some graphics :)
20:28:28 <Wolf01> oh right... i'm compiling by myself :P
20:28:37 <Belugas> how can we get a stable if no one test the nighlties???
20:30:38 <TrueBrain> @kick ddewilt this is NOT MSN
20:30:38 *** ddewilt was kicked by DorpsGek (this is NOT MSN)
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20:33:39 <Belugas> and SmatZ, 0.5.2 is a release. that's all and since we're trying to get 0.5.3 out, it means ther are problems with it ^_^
20:33:49 <Belugas> tus.. it is not really a stable version!
20:36:04 <SmatZ> there are problems with all software, and it is released and sold as stable...
20:38:37 <Belugas> [16:25] <@Belugas> you could still use the nighlties...
20:38:38 <Belugas> [16:26] <ddewilt> ok,, but are they stable?
20:38:38 <Belugas> [16:26] <SmatZ> ddewilt: no
20:38:59 <Belugas> nightlies are stable like 99% of the time
20:39:44 <SmatZ> sarry, don't be sad :-(
20:40:13 * Belugas unslaps SmatZ and hugs him
20:40:33 * SmatZ hugs Belugas, now are all happy again :)
20:40:57 <Belugas> TrueBrain, see what you did to me?
20:43:05 <ln-> does anyone own a force feedback joystick and use it on a non-mainstream operating system?
20:48:38 <Bjarni> ln-: try #OSX on freenode or something
20:49:09 <Bjarni> well... they talked about boobs and drinking the time I visited them with a serious question, but you might have better luck
20:49:29 <Bjarni> you will figure it out
20:49:46 <Bjarni> if the channel is empty, then it's the wrong name ;)
21:03:39 <ln-> Bjarni: i tried #macdev, no one replied
21:04:51 <Bjarni> odd thing is that the only channel I actually got useful replies from was #fink
21:04:59 <Bjarni> I wouldn't go there with a joystick issue though
21:11:28 <ln-> looks ok, except "a piece of machine code is added after the machine code"
21:12:55 <Bjarni> what to write instead...
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21:13:45 <ln-> "X is added after X" sounds odd.
21:14:37 <ln-> a few words could also be said about the *purpose* of universal binaries, before going into technicalities.
21:22:22 <Bjarni> however I think people reading this page already knows the purpose... but ok
21:24:21 <ln-> who knows what readers know
21:25:22 <Bjarni> I decided not to compare this to the 68k->PPC transfer... too few people are aware of what happened back then
21:32:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
21:47:24 <Progman> 11100 got some weird grf errors ;)
21:50:24 <Progman> the sprites for rail dragging northeast<->southwest are missing
21:52:36 *** DeGhosty has joined #openttd
21:53:16 <Bjarni> as luck would happen, the person most likely to be the cause of this went to bed :P
21:54:02 <Phazorx> binart releases are usualy like that
21:54:10 <Phazorx> next one will be broken too
21:55:25 * Bjarni wondered why the compilation took so long
21:55:50 <Bjarni> turned out that it was still in universal binary mode after I tested something earlier today
21:56:00 <Bjarni> and not even in debug mode either
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22:01:24 <Bjarni> Progman: post a bug report
22:01:46 <Bjarni> and tell me once you are done and I will assign it to the right person
22:02:47 <Progman> to lazy, and noone can miss this bug ;)
22:03:45 <Bjarni> looks like one person missed it before committing :P
22:04:07 <Bjarni> but it's likely that he will notice tomorrow
22:06:07 <Bjarni> read the svn log and he will be the only one playing with stuff that's likely to cause this
22:10:41 <Bjarni> this would be another pointer to who did this
22:11:14 <Bjarni> usually I would say that evidence like this wouldn't leave any questionmarks, but in this case...
22:14:20 <Sacro> i might be getting this Sparc :D
22:14:42 <Sacro> and it has the framebuffer graphics card
22:17:05 * Bjarni detects Sparcs flying from Sacro's head
22:17:13 <Bjarni> or would that be sparks?
22:17:53 <Bjarni> isn't that some outdated port thingie?
22:18:17 <Bjarni> I think I once saw an ethernet hub with one of those, but I'm not entirely sure of the name
22:18:26 <Bjarni> I have seen AUI before though
22:18:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
22:19:36 <Sacro> so that'll go fine into an ethernet socket
22:19:41 <Sacro> though might struggle with wifi
22:19:42 <Bjarni> Ethernet AUI (Access Unit Interface)
22:19:57 <Bjarni> looks like networking that lost to ethernet
22:20:06 <Sacro> i don't seem to be able to snag urls via irssi in putty
22:20:35 <Bjarni> copy paste should work though
22:20:55 <Bjarni> paste it in your browser, not IRC :P
22:22:05 <Bjarni> Figure 2-7. Turning on the Indy Workstation <--- this is followed by figure 2-7, which is a finger pressing the power button... nice
22:22:30 <Bjarni> you need to press the button saying power... I thought you should stare at it or add water to it or something
22:25:04 <Sacro> i miss pressing CTRL+BREAK
22:32:48 * Bjarni CTRL the BREAK of Sacro
22:33:25 <Prof_Frink> light goes on, light goes off. light goes on, light goes off.
22:42:04 <Bjarni> TrueBrain: I think you have a sprite bug report
22:42:06 <Prof_Frink> Thunderbirds are go!
22:42:25 <Bjarni> try to build rails in north-south direction
22:43:30 <Bjarni> TrueBrain: I also noticed a minor issue in make bundle_dmg... once the dmg is mounted, the disk is called bundle, not "OpenTTD rev"
22:43:47 <TrueBrain> Bjarni: not my problem
22:43:49 <Bjarni> not a huge issue, but it should be fixed before 0.6.0
22:44:04 <Bjarni> it worked until you made the makefile rewrite
22:44:13 <TrueBrain> @kick Bjarni blablabla
22:44:13 *** Bjarni was kicked by DorpsGek (blablabla)
22:44:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
22:44:19 <TrueBrain> sometimes, I can get sick us such things...
22:45:36 <TrueBrain> file 8, offset 0...
22:45:42 <TrueBrain> cool, validation protection in effect!
22:46:43 <TrueBrain> Progman: my compliments, 1 missing sprite per grf, and you find 2 of them in secnods ;)
22:48:13 <TrueBrain> so there you have it :)
22:48:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11101 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix r11099: the check: file_pos == 0, no longer works; adjust the check with file_slot. This solves the ? sprites with autorail (nice catch Progman)
22:48:55 <TrueBrain> [00:43] <Bjarni> not a huge issue, but it should be fixed before 0.6.0 <- I guess it shouldn't be hard for you to fix, so I hope to see a commit tonight ;) :)
22:49:21 <TrueBrain> ah, revision 29, how nice...
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continue to next day ⏵
