IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-08-25
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00:03:36 <Greyscale> How do I replace an old bus?
00:04:39 <glx> sell the old, buy the new
00:04:57 <Tekky> there are two ways I know of.... either use autoreplace or send the vehicle to a depot and do it manually.
00:05:43 <Tekky> autoreplace only works if you have enough money. You can configure it in the patches window.
00:05:46 <glx> vehicle list, hold "manage list", select "replace"
00:06:57 <glx> but maybe that's what Greyscale wants :)
00:07:21 <Greyscale> learn something every day
00:07:30 <Greyscale> I want to upgrade my rickety old crap
00:07:43 <Tekky> Greyscale, do you want to replace an old vehicle with an identical new one? Or do you want to replace an older model of a bus with a newer model?
00:08:12 <Tekky> ah, you want to upgrade.... for that you should use autoreplace, as glx said.
00:08:22 <Greyscale> upgrade the crappy old busses
00:08:42 <Greyscale> does it stagger-upgrade them?
00:10:17 <Greyscale> Why oh why is my friend's cele 1.6 heavilly loaded on a 2048x2048 map and my PPC 300Mhz is dandy on a 1024x2048 map?
00:11:27 <Greyscale> neither has ships yet
00:11:44 <Greyscale> and the PPC has a more complex network
00:13:24 <Bjarni> I once tested an 800 MHz G4 against a 1,2 GHz pentium. The G4 was faster at playing DivX
00:14:23 <Bjarni> 1,6 vs 300.... we should have known which one would be the fastest in that test
00:15:19 <Greyscale> Damn. Dash diesel has no electric replacement
00:15:23 <Greyscale> does it get one in the future?
00:16:19 * Bjarni detects a user input error
00:16:39 <Greyscale> There are no EMU's in this game. I complained earlier.
00:16:42 <Bjarni> you should be able to replace diesel to electric without any problems
00:16:53 <Greyscale> But there is no Dash diesel replacement
00:17:17 <Greyscale> I know nothing it seems D:
00:19:37 <glx> download the grf and put it in data
00:19:57 <Greyscale> with grf's, does it run WITH the current ones or are they replaced?
00:20:08 <Greyscale> and if it is on the server, do clients download them?
00:20:19 <Sionide> that would be a sweet ass patch
00:20:32 <Greyscale> damn. It'd be cool if you could collect all kinds of trains
00:20:36 <glx> and clients need the same grfs
00:20:53 <Greyscale> Patch is required :P
00:21:00 <Greyscale> If I knew my shit I'd go for it
00:21:18 <Greyscale> well it downloads the map
00:21:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> the clients only need to have the file, it gets activated automatically
00:21:37 <Greyscale> it may as well download the grfs and apply them while its there
00:21:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> copyright issues
00:21:54 <Greyscale> Eddi|zuHause2, why?
00:22:07 <Greyscale> Its not actually containing anything copyright itself
00:22:15 <Greyscale> it is a mode of copying a file from A to B
00:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> each grf file is copyright protected
00:22:43 <Greyscale> Then have "Do you agree to this licence" and wack a licence in with the grf
00:23:03 <Greyscale> somefile.grf and somefile.licence
00:23:06 <glx> each grf has it's own licence
00:23:32 <Greyscale> Makes me wish I knew C now
00:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's also other issues, like having outdated versions circling around
00:23:50 <Greyscale> if the server has it, it doesn't matter
00:23:55 <Greyscale> just download whatever the server has
00:23:55 <glx> and users complaining about grf bugs
00:24:05 <Greyscale> less fiddling, more it-just-works
00:24:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> it may have bugs that were long fixed
00:24:20 <Greyscale> server maintainers responcibility
00:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> the server owner might not even notice that there is a new version out
00:25:30 <Bjarni> I have a lot of grf files in my shared data dir. Should solve client/server issues if you just dump all of them in there
00:25:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> but he will, if people report that they cannot join with their new version, and cannot get the old version anywher
00:25:53 <Greyscale> still the server maintainers fault.
00:26:08 <Greyscale> Eddi|zuHause2, doesn't matter, the clients pull it from the server
00:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> they don't, that is exactly the point
00:26:29 <glx> Greyscale: anyway it will never happen
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00:26:43 <Greyscale> so the server has it and hands it out to all the users who try to connect without it
00:26:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> the grf author has full control that he is the only person the people get the grf from
00:26:52 <Greyscale> glx, you saying that makes me want to learn C++
00:27:27 <Greyscale> then that responcibility to get the grf's owner's permission to redistribute is that of the server maintainers.
00:27:37 <glx> you can code it if you want but it will never be in openttd
00:27:49 <Greyscale> Its damn well making me want to.
00:27:59 <Bjarni> it would make little sense to code if the server will not contain the code
00:28:16 <Bjarni> both ends should be able to handle a grf transfer for a patch to be useful
00:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> the issue has been discussed so often...
00:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> and every time it was decided that it is not going to happen
00:29:07 <Bjarni> with the grf window and the ability to use subdirs and stuff in data and a shared data dir, I don't see the problem
00:29:17 <Bjarni> you can just put every single grf file in there if you like
00:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> the only thing that _might_ have a chance of happening, is that you get a link to grfcrawler from within openttd, but that adds a lot of unnecessary dependencies
00:30:46 <glx> and not all grfs are in grfcrawler
00:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is a whole other issue :)
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02:25:40 <Greyscale> What do the little red/yellow/green balls in the train list mean?
02:26:14 <Greyscale> and what happens if I run a train beyond its lifetime?
02:30:11 <ThePizzaKing> Are they the profit indicators?
02:31:18 <ThePizzaKing> Orange is average
02:31:26 <ThePizzaKing> Grey is 'the train is too young to tell'
02:32:18 <ThePizzaKing> And running a train beyond its lifetime causes its reliability to decrease (which means nothing if you have breakdowns disabled)
02:49:50 <Greyscale> ThePizzaKing, means nothing then :P
02:55:24 <ThePizzaKing> Though, I think if you want really high ratings on your stations, you need to have a newish carriage/vehicle servicing it regularly
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04:14:45 <Greyscale> All the trains are missing from the build panel
04:15:32 <Greyscale> Aah, can't buy diesels
04:21:52 <Greyscale> Feature request: Underground stops.
04:22:20 <Greyscale> Because trying to wedge railway stations into packed in already-grown city's without leveling entire blocks is a sonofabitch
04:22:46 <Greyscale> like, a 7 square station underground with a 1 square "head" on the surface would be kickass.
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04:30:13 * Sacro ponders where everyone is
04:45:18 <Sacro> just layed em out and rendered them?
04:45:47 <Sacro> but you can import them into blender
04:46:08 <_Ben_> ha, thats ok, I actually made them slightly higher detail so I can use them for somethign else I'm doing
04:46:23 <Sacro> i assume you can render at a very high level
04:46:28 <Sacro> but i don't know how to use blender
04:46:56 <_Ben_> I've modelled the underneath sections as well, I'm not shore what the detail is like on the ones that you say can be inported
04:47:36 <_Ben_> oh ewll, it was a good way to waste the evening, if there of use to anyone on the forum there there, if not, oh well!
05:19:17 <Greyscale> called the "London Underground" here... or "The tube"
05:19:34 <Greyscale> the internet may not be made of tubes, but london's transport network is
05:21:36 * Greyscale waits for "... its not?"
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07:15:14 <jonty-comp> Hi guys, quick query about setting up a dedicated server
07:15:32 <jonty-comp> I keep getting this:
07:15:33 <jonty-comp> [net] [server] could not start network: bind() failed
07:16:04 <jonty-comp> It's never happened before on the same computer, but I haven't run one in a while so it might be to do with the nightly
07:19:06 <guru3> sounds like you might already have an copy running or something using the port already
07:19:35 <jonty-comp> Maybe another user is
07:19:38 * jonty-comp does some fiddling
07:20:04 <guru3> actually, looking at the bind manpage
07:20:33 <jonty-comp> If I change it from the default port, it will still advertise on the masterserver right?
07:20:52 * Lachie pokes jonty-comp in the eye
07:21:03 <guru3> tcp is for the game, udp is the query protocol
07:21:47 <guru3> really though, bind should return an error code that tells you what's wrong
07:21:53 <guru3> it shouldn't just fail by itself
07:22:16 <jonty-comp> Ok, I'll change the port and try
07:22:48 <jonty-comp> Ah, I think it might have worked
07:22:55 * jonty-comp loads up OTTD locally
07:24:00 <jonty-comp> Yay, it has worked
07:24:19 <Lachie> cheers, guru3, you saved us alot of trouble.
07:27:00 <guru3> anyone know if there's an RC build for OS X?
07:27:38 * guru3 mutters about sf dl pages
07:32:52 <guru3> RC3 just crashed on my mac :<
07:36:35 <jonty-comp> Funny, I think it was RC3 that crashed on my MacOS the other day
07:36:56 <jonty-comp> Everyone told me it was because it was running on a PC, but maybe that's not the case :P
07:37:30 <Lachie> aren't the RCs actually pretty unstable this time around?
07:37:31 <guru3> it did it when i tried to join a server
07:37:42 <guru3> alas, no multi-player ttd for me
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08:07:54 <Rubidium> hmm, RC3 is out? What did I miss?
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11:53:23 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: cool! Those legobits you made! :) Very nice :) Now we can make brickland license free :p (I stole the graphics from MLCad :p)
11:53:37 <TrueBrain> Anyway, one question: ALL pieces are one mesh? This way I can't link to them :( :p
11:53:56 <TrueBrain> and I have no idea how to copy/paste stuff :p
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12:21:06 <svip> Then I am not gonna play.
12:21:14 <svip> I don't believe in inferior measurement systems.
12:21:32 <svip> For the same reason I don't go to the USA and the UK.
12:22:26 <ThePizzaKing> Right, spank the monkey, and the high score is in mph, weird
12:23:07 <skidd13> A nice ting toi check your abilitys with the mouse :D
12:23:33 <ThePizzaKing> Eh, I don't think that site particularly likes swfdec all that much
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12:30:19 <ThePizzaKing> Um, I thought the UK used metric measurements
12:31:11 <_Ben_> we're ment to, hardly anyone does
12:31:35 <_Ben_> TrueBrain: strange, it must have merged the seperate meshes on inport, I'll try breaking it up
12:53:12 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: would be nice ;)
12:55:37 <Nickman> The bricks done yet? :d
12:55:54 <TrueBrain> tnx to _Ben_ we at least have really good bricks to work with :)
12:56:02 <TrueBrain> they in fact are more detailed than the onces from MLCad :p
13:00:51 <svip> _Ben_ sounds like a true brick expert.
13:01:32 <_Ben_> ha, thanks. Yeah I was kinda obsessed with lego
13:02:12 <Nickman> show us the bricks ;) :D
13:07:26 <Nickman> can someone change the forum setting so that links open in a new window?
13:14:24 <Nickman> So, how are the slopes coming TrueBrain?
13:15:17 <TrueBrain> Nickman: my gf is here, believe me, I didn't touch it since last night :)
13:15:30 <TrueBrain> so, the same: I can't find the correct height
13:15:46 <TrueBrain> tomorrow will be a new day :p
13:18:19 <_Ben_> TrueBrain: The .blend file attached should now have the objects seperated
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14:15:41 <jonty-comp> openttd: /compile_farm/openttd/nightly/compile_dir/src/industry.h:225: IndustryGfx GetTranslatedIndustryTileID(IndustryGfx): Assertion `gfx < INVALID_INDUSTRYTILE' failed.
14:15:47 <jonty-comp> That's not good. D:
14:17:34 <glx> jonty-comp: post a bug report with the savegame
14:19:08 <jonty-comp> I'm just seeing if it happens again when I load the latest autosave
14:20:26 <jonty-comp> It doesn't appear to
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15:32:21 <DorpsGek> Sacro: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 2 hours, 13 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> tnx :)
15:44:35 <Sacro> does anyone want a .blend file i did in ldraw?
15:47:10 <Sacro> cos i don't know how to render
15:55:55 <TrueBrain> Sacro: and sent it to me :) And tell me how you did it ;)
15:56:28 <Sacro> TrueBrain: you need to install ldraw and blender
15:58:18 <Sacro> edit all 3 and set the ldraw path correctly
15:58:47 <Sacro> then in the "Scripts config Editor", change "usehires" to true
16:00:29 <Sacro> and then i have to hard reset my desktop cos explorer locked up
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19:47:56 <krushia> i just played a game with trunk and multiterminal is broken with busses... when I build 2+ bus terminals next to each other, the busses only use one of them and get congested.
19:48:32 <krushia> this is regardless of what pathfinding is used, or whether queing is on
19:52:58 <krushia> ugh... i need to register to file a bug report?
20:02:39 <Rubidium> krushia: the registering is needed so it is possible to notify you when we need more information about a bug
20:03:43 <krushia> does anyone know about this bug or do i need to register and file a reporty
20:03:54 <krushia> it seems like an obvious one
20:04:03 <krushia> for anyone who uses busses
20:04:52 <Rubidium> I accidentally broke it I guess
20:06:06 <Rubidium> anyhow, it should be fixed by now ;)
20:06:38 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10978 /trunk/src/station.cpp: -Fix (r10974): only the first road stop (with correct roadtype) was considered when distributing vehicles.
20:06:46 <Rubidium> CIA-3: you are *slow*
20:07:20 <krushia> that was fast. thanks :)
20:09:33 <Rubidium> *if* you would have had a tram only station it would've tried to let half of the vehicles go to that one ;)
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20:32:31 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10979 /trunk/src/ (elrail.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1157]: catenary on tunnel tiles was drawn non-transparant when the other catenary was drawn transparant. Patch by smatz.
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21:22:31 <_42_> Sacro, Bjarni (~Bjarni@0x535ca25f.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 20 hours 27 minutes ago (25.08. 00:55) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 16 hours 9 minutes there.
21:49:47 <Sacro> damn, i should know this
21:51:02 <Sacro> which goes to (pi^-1/2)/2
21:52:26 <Sacro> so that's -(7^-1)-sin(2x^2 + -(pi^-1/2)/2)
21:53:33 <ln-> i cheated and used mathematica, which told me that the derivative is -28*cos(4x)
21:55:20 <Sacro> don't see where that came from
21:55:44 <Sacro> i think i integrated it
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22:01:24 <ln-> am i correct that cos(4x + pi/2) == -cos(4x) ?
22:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause> == is definitely wrong
22:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's easy to see that the answer to the question is -28
22:03:24 <Eddi|zuHause> 7 passes through the derivative, the inner derivative is 4, and the outer derivative is -sin
22:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have 7*4*(-sin(4x+pi/2))
22:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> x=0, so -28*sin(pi/2)
22:04:03 <Sacro> actually, doesn't it all cancel dwon to zero?
22:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and sin(pi/2) is 1
22:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you first do the derivative, then insert x
22:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> not the other way round
22:10:09 <ln-> this whole thing would have been avoided if the early man hadn't come down from the trees.
22:12:25 <Eddi|zuHause> half the people i post that to report "server not found"...
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22:39:03 * Smoovious passed his CDL test.
22:45:30 <TrueBrain> Sacro: show us a picture! :p
22:51:22 <Sacro> TrueBrain: anything in particular?
22:51:55 <Sacro> but blender seems to remove the nobbly bits
22:54:57 <Sacro> how do you find the plugin config screen?
22:55:19 <TrueBrain> I myself search my ass of for the simplest things...
23:00:23 <Sacro> grr :( blender is being a pain
23:00:31 <TrueBrain> nothing new there Sacro :)
23:00:42 <Sacro> keeps failing on "import os"
23:00:46 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: nice going :)
23:00:51 <TrueBrain> but shouldn't that be real holes?
23:01:02 <TrueBrain> and a 2x3 no-round-thingies I never seen?
23:01:04 <Sacro> think i need python for windows
23:01:07 <TrueBrain> although a 1x2 is missing ;)
23:02:17 <_Ben_> they are real holes, I just flatterened the render with a red background by mistake, so just removed the main background in PS, so the red bits fill the holes
23:02:44 <TrueBrain> I only remember them being in 2x2 (like you have) and 1x2 (also 1x1)
23:02:49 <_Ben_> yeah, theres a 1x2 flat, and 1x1 flat, but I can't remeber how the underside of them works from memory, I need to go find examples
23:03:00 <TrueBrain> ah :) 1x1 is just hollow
23:03:06 <TrueBrain> 1x2 depends on the age
23:03:11 <TrueBrain> some had a nip in the center, some didn't
23:03:19 <TrueBrain> but I leave it to your attic :)
23:03:22 <_Ben_> hmm, I'll check around. I have nearly each lego bit. If I can't find a 2x3 I'll delete it!
23:03:32 <TrueBrain> haha :) I don't mind it is there :)
23:03:40 <TrueBrain> btw, in those tiles the edges were always roudned
23:03:46 <TrueBrain> which made it annoying to make a smooth surface ;)
23:03:49 <_Ben_> yeah, the older ones had less gripping bits beneath, they used to move and pivot around too much
23:03:54 <TrueBrain> but that is not really what we want I guess :)
23:04:19 <_Ben_> yeah..I was thinking of rounding the edges slightly. Otherwise when there added together it may be too smooth wich will look bare...
23:04:25 <_Ben_> it would take a little effert, but may be worth it
23:04:58 <TrueBrain> I wonder how the import from ldraw to blender handles the different pieces
23:05:07 <TrueBrain> if in a nice way, we can link it to your bricks
23:05:12 <TrueBrain> so we can freely distribute the graphics :)
23:05:28 <Sacro> well the plugin is downloadable
23:05:35 <TrueBrain> yeah, didn't had the time yet
23:05:39 <_Ben_> are the Idraw mesh's copyright?
23:05:57 <Sacro> but free for non commerical/private
23:06:10 <TrueBrain> (yours are much much more smooth and nice
23:06:45 <_Ben_> cool, there not too hard to make really, just a bit time consuming. A few people could get most bricks done in a week
23:07:01 <TrueBrain> if they know how :p
23:07:02 <_Ben_> (asuming theres about 300 common bits)?
23:07:17 <TrueBrain> I only have a big fight with blender when it comes down to linking and colors...
23:07:29 <TrueBrain> how I look at it now, the only way is to make a copy of each brick in each color
23:07:32 <TrueBrain> which is just silly
23:09:26 <Sacro> i can only render at low settings and it looks crappy
23:09:41 <TrueBrain> still, show me what you got :)
23:09:56 <_Ben_> You can change colours relativly easily (in blender terms) just hit F5 and there is a box next to "col" where you can asign colours
23:10:17 <TrueBrain> _Ben_: and in linked objects that somehow fails
23:10:46 <TrueBrain> when I change it, it is okay for the session
23:10:52 <TrueBrain> when I reload the file, it takes the color from the master again
23:11:08 <TrueBrain> and more, it would be nice if I could use a MA: color, so we can predefine colors, like Grass, Desert, ...
23:11:13 <TrueBrain> so people don't make mistakes :)
23:11:38 <_Ben_> hmm, I can see why it would do that, but it should allow you to do what you want really!. Cloning is primerally for making mesh variations in animation, so you can alternate between differnt extreas of the same thing
23:11:41 <TrueBrain> the manual states that the master can tell what the proxy can freely change and what not, I just can't find it :(
23:12:15 <TrueBrain> you have to clone it lcoally before you are truely free to select the color
23:12:21 <TrueBrain> the manual is a bit poor btw
23:13:24 <Sacro> linux on my laptop should be able to use blender nicely
23:13:37 <TrueBrain> funny that it works better under linux ;)
23:13:58 <Sacro> windows on my desktop is borked
23:14:09 <Sacro> any installer that needs to register a font will lock it
23:17:50 <Sacro> well my laptop works even less
23:19:34 <Sacro> i can install python only for my user on windows
23:19:54 <_Ben_> heh, just got a large tub of lego down from the attic. Many more bits to model..!
23:20:28 <TrueBrain> hmm, somehow I got a piece in Ipo Curve Editor
23:20:32 <TrueBrain> and now it won't show up :p
23:20:37 <Sacro> need to try and remember
23:20:44 <Sacro> ring my brother tommorow morning
23:20:51 <Sacro> and get him to get all my lego manuals from out the loft
23:22:10 <Sacro> desktop is being an arse
23:23:03 <TrueBrain> ah, there it is again :)
23:23:28 <TrueBrain> just it is still hidden..
23:23:36 <TrueBrain> ah, it is just moved to the wrong place
23:26:01 <Sacro> windows needs a kill -9 explorer.exe button
23:26:17 <Sacro> brb, pressing reset button
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23:40:50 <Sacro> Ammller: what about it?
23:41:23 <Ammller> or ctrl-shift-esc for killing explorer
23:43:14 <Sacro> Lachie: what are you doing here?
23:44:00 <Ammller> Sacro: I use windows only in VirtualBox
23:44:28 <Lachie> Sacro: sitting, quite obviously.
23:46:08 <Sacro> well i booted my desktop
23:46:15 <Sacro> and then hit reset and put it in linux
23:46:21 <Sacro> then dual monitored my laptop instead
23:48:59 <Sacro> wow, this multi-monitor app is really nice
23:49:09 <Sacro> gives me a second taskbar on the other screen
23:49:19 <Sacro> and gives me buttons for shifting windows from one to the other
23:49:41 <Sacro> shame it gets confused if you have one window above the other, rather than side by side
23:55:24 <Sacro> TrueBrain: i can render it, but it looks really dark
23:58:45 *** Alltaken has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
