IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-07-31
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00:20:39 *** RichK67 has joined #openttd
00:26:58 <RichK67> major league committage about to happen on newgrf_ports :)
00:29:37 <Sacro> ooh nice, what kinda new stuffs?
00:30:37 <RichK67> commuter airport is now loaded from newgrf, and the newgrf FSM works - helis and a/c fly!!! :)
00:31:12 <Sacro> does that mean i can make a new airport?
00:31:25 <RichK67> yup - with whatever graphics you want
00:32:10 <Smoovious> a slingshot with a ramp
00:32:13 <RichK67> ok, there are some minor glitches... cant save it, being one ;)
00:32:32 <RichK67> thats next on the list
00:37:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: richk * r10738 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (17 files in 4 dirs):
00:37:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Feature: FSMblockmap class added. Basic FSM import complete.
00:37:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Need to handle multiple blocks on import. Aircraft controller recoded to work
00:37:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: with new 128 bit blocks. Still need to write saveload for new blocks.
00:37:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rb_airport2.grf updated. Commuter airport FSM working.
00:39:18 <Smoovious> yeah, saving would be good
00:40:52 <Sacro> FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER
00:41:11 <Smoovious> oh, you've seen my rail interchanges!
00:46:20 <Phazorx> hmm... no idea what FSM is
00:46:29 <Phazorx> any info on that on wiki?
00:46:57 <RichK67> only the briefest of descriptions on the wiki
00:47:15 <Phazorx> RichK67: can you enlighten me plz ?
00:47:39 <Smoovious> at least what the acronym means?
00:47:46 <RichK67> the newFSMports branch is where im developing the ability to load in custom designed (air/sea/road)ports
00:48:03 <Rubidium> FSM => finite state machine
00:48:05 <RichK67> FSM = finite state machine... the thing that moves the vehicles around
00:48:37 <Smoovious> yeah, having a nice long loading dock would be great for trucks
00:49:19 <Phazorx> hmm... a different managing technique for aitports i can see a point fo that
00:49:46 <Phazorx> since on ground planes avoid visual collisions, but for ships/rvs cant really see where that comes handy
00:49:50 <RichK67> im itching to design a dockyard with multiple loading docks
00:50:15 <Phazorx> and are they treated as different platfroms in RR station?
00:51:02 <Phazorx> it would be coll to have dedicated dock per cargo type tho
00:51:05 <RichK67> far more active than a RR station...
00:51:14 <Phazorx> makes great scense to me at least
00:53:52 <Phazorx> will that SM allow to select a manager model for airports, like reassigning slots to different vehicle types, changing queuing, or general routing withing?
00:56:04 <RichK67> you would be able to code a lot of that within the .grf file, but it is *complicated* :)
01:05:31 <Phazorx> you should see current openrrdcoop game with 6lane one way tracks and 1500 trains on it, that is complicated :)
01:05:42 <Phazorx> but all just set of basic elementsd
01:06:04 <Phazorx> which is probably how grf work would be...r ather tidious than complex
01:06:27 <Rubidium> FSMs get complex pretty easily
01:06:30 <Phazorx> and i'm just wondering what exactl FSM will allow to be done... what features/perks etc
01:07:10 <Rubidium> FSMs are for controlling vehicle movement within the "station"
01:07:37 <Rubidium> it basically makes sure you can efficiently route vehicles in the station without getting deadlocks (if coded correctly that is)
01:07:37 <Phazorx> i figured that, but will a player has a choice of preset models
01:07:43 <Phazorx> or will be able to build one?
01:08:03 <Rubidium> as preset as they are in the grf
01:09:11 <glx> for the user it will be like current airports, but you can have more possible layout (depending on the grf coders)
01:09:26 <Phazorx> say there is international airport, 4 landing strips, 6 plane slots 2 chopper slots
01:09:29 <Rubidium> oh, and you can rotate the airports though
01:09:41 <Rubidium> Phazorx: if you load the grf that has them
01:10:03 <glx> you can have "holes" in the airport too
01:10:08 <Phazorx> what if there will be one that turns off landingstrips or reassingls them to be 2in 2 out rather than pait og in/ou on each side, etc ?
01:10:35 <Phazorx> so... not on a fly onyl as parameter or different grf set ?
01:11:17 <Phazorx> i was under impression aside of rotation this is how its done now
01:11:33 <Phazorx> GRFs define fucntionality. timing, quieing, slot exchange order wtc
01:12:36 <Phazorx> so i guess FSM framework is more comprehensive than hardcoded as it was ?
01:17:35 <Rubidium> I fail to interpret what you mean
01:19:16 <RichK67> system is mainly designed to provide a way of updating / adding new ports/airports etc without having to recode the core
01:20:08 <Phazorx> Rubidium: currently GRFs define how airports work, entirely i presume... with FSM it is still only up to grfs to define functionality... so what exactly would change is user experience?
01:20:21 <RichK67> side benefits are more flexible graphics, rotating airports, asymmetrical airports, etc.
01:20:34 <glx> [03:09:15] <+glx> for the user it will be like current airports, but you can have more possible layout (depending on the grf coders)
01:20:35 <Rubidium> Phazorx: currently as in trunk or newgrf_ports?
01:20:46 <RichK67> all current OTTD airports are 100% hardcoded
01:21:00 <Phazorx> RichK67: in code or grf?
01:21:18 <Rubidium> Phazorx: there are no newgrf coded airports yet
01:21:20 <Phazorx> now it makes sense :)
01:21:45 <RichK67> and it doesnt quite work ;)
01:28:03 <Rubidium> anyway, I'm going to sleep
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10:25:02 * Brianetta waves to the two-sided one
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11:25:31 <Nickman> TrueBrain: you here? :)
11:26:31 <TrueBrain> strangly enough, I am :)
11:27:21 <Nickman> you read my message yesterday?
11:27:27 <Nickman> and the day before :D
11:27:59 <TrueBrain> I did read something about you having troubles building things :p
11:28:13 <Nickman> I can't seem to be able to build drive trough bus stops
11:28:26 <Nickman> then I changes my code a bit to make it non drive trough and that works
11:28:45 <Nickman> so, I'm guessing something is going wrong with the BuildRoadStation function?
11:29:26 <TrueBrain> doubtful, as the regression passes
11:29:44 <TrueBrain> do you build it in the right direction?
11:29:45 <Nickman> my old code is in the NoAI post on the forums, maybe you could take a look or try it? :)
11:30:05 <TrueBrain> if you want me to look at it, you need to make me a test case
11:30:28 <TrueBrain> but try around a bit, different directions, different param values
11:30:32 <TrueBrain> and check if it helps a bit
11:30:41 <TrueBrain> bugs are always possible of course
11:31:12 <Nickman> what do you mean with the direction?
11:31:21 <Nickman> it is just a neighbouring road tile...
11:31:43 <Nickman> I checke the two tiles ingame and it would be perfectly buildable
11:31:50 <TrueBrain> but are you sure a drive through can be built on it?
11:31:58 <TrueBrain> (in that direction)
11:32:47 <Nickman> should I test that by building it myself?
11:33:00 <TrueBrain> as now I think of it
11:33:03 <dihedral> Brianetta: whats that two-sided one supposed to mean?
11:33:10 <TrueBrain> most likely the patch that allows building them on town road is disabled
11:33:48 <dihedral> always forget the meaning of the name ^^
11:33:49 <Brianetta> perhaps two faced would have been more accurate (:
11:34:07 <Brianetta> etymologically, you understand
11:34:08 <dihedral> actually it mainly describs the upward angle of wings
11:34:23 <Brianetta> rather than one monohedron
11:34:27 <Nickman> So I might need to enable a patch setting TrueBrain , I'll take a look
11:34:30 <dihedral> the downward angle would be anhedral
11:34:37 <Brianetta> and a dodecahedral surface has 12 faces
11:34:47 <TrueBrain> Nickman: if something fails, try doing it yourself first ;)
11:35:07 <Brianetta> dihedral is two faced
11:35:29 * dihedral turns to his other face - both nod ^^
11:35:39 * Brianetta browses the eBay calculators category
11:35:59 <dihedral> gekko - no offence - but sometimes i really believe you aint doing that on purpose
11:36:02 <Brianetta> One day, somebody's going to sell an old HP RPN calculator, and they're going to mis-describe it, and they're not going to know it's worth a lot
11:36:07 <Brianetta> and I'll get one for pennies
11:36:14 <Gekko> dihedral: keep believing that
11:36:28 <Gekko> fucked up - yes, but interesting
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11:36:44 <dihedral> Brianetta: perhaps you'll find one on a jumble sale
11:37:01 <Brianetta> dihedral: I would, if I ever actually saw a jumble sale
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11:37:13 <Nickman> It was disabled indeed TrueBrain :D, I didn't even know that setting existed :D
11:37:17 <Brianetta> It's remarkable how infrequently they happen in the centre of a city
11:37:29 <Nickman> thx, I'll try my code again in a while :)
11:37:39 <TrueBrain> Nickman: and too bad for you, the AI can't cheat, and has to follow game logic like any other player
11:37:48 <dihedral> Brianetta: they appear quite often in london-richmond
11:37:55 <Brianetta> I want to see, "Pocket calculator. Doesn't work properly, no equals button. Buy it now: £2"
11:37:58 <Gekko> TrueBrain: it can randomly terraform for free!
11:38:04 <Gekko> and it abuses that right >_>
11:38:06 <TrueBrain> Gekko: we do talk about NoAI
11:38:22 <Nickman> Well, I'll get back to you when it works ;).
11:38:30 <dihedral> Gekko: to be quote honest i would not use that word
11:38:31 <Gekko> so how goes NoAI anyway
11:38:32 <TrueBrain> Nickman: and no time sooner :p
11:38:46 <Nickman> I would like function to get the name of a station, I could seem to find that?
11:38:47 <TrueBrain> Gekko: please do keep those words for yourself
11:39:00 <TrueBrain> Nickman: nice one, add it to the wiki page :)
11:39:00 <Gekko> How goes NoAI development?
11:39:20 <TrueBrain> Gekko: pretty good, first working Aircraft AI is up and running
11:39:24 <TrueBrain> Road and Ship is done too
11:39:29 <TrueBrain> Rail has to be done
11:39:35 <TrueBrain> same as tunnel and some kind of pathfinder
11:39:43 <dihedral> Brianetta: i once was at a richmond jumble and there were a few car boots and vans full of computer stuff
11:39:45 * Brianetta pounds it into the heads of eBayers
11:39:50 <Gekko> will it have selectable stupidity?
11:39:51 <Brianetta> The Casio FX-83 IS NOT RARE
11:40:07 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: thatone is: it is working! :p
11:40:14 <Brianetta> It's been in constant production for over 20 years and is available new for under a fiver
11:40:17 <Gekko> TrueBrain: add an "Artificial Stupidity" settingm
11:40:18 <dihedral> Gekko: just because you have, does not mean the ai has to
11:40:22 <Gekko> make it put stations in the wilderness
11:40:44 <dihedral> Gekko needs a friend that plays just like he does
11:41:04 <Gekko> with 4 people and 4 towns
11:41:05 <TrueBrain> Gekko: it will have a mode where it kills your company, where ever you join, which ever server you play on, even single player: the AI will join and kill your company
11:41:21 <Gekko> TrueBrain: stop mockerising me >_>!
11:41:35 <dihedral> Gekko: you are actually calling for it
11:41:48 <dihedral> no... aint really funny
11:42:05 <Gekko> I'm barely paying attention
11:42:06 <dihedral> you hardly do anything else but shout "here is me - need a beating"
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11:51:26 <procool> i have a little quastion to you, can i ask?
11:52:04 <TrueBrain> haha :) Always just ask your question :)
11:52:14 <TrueBrain> As asking if you can ask one, is already a question :p
11:53:34 <Wezz6400> he's a programmer therefore he has a weird sence of humour ;)
11:54:05 <TrueBrain> there is nothing wrong with my humor :p
11:54:14 <Wezz6400> I didn't say that :P
11:54:35 <procool> do you know about openttd servers list? how can i add my server to this list? i don't see any registration, and when i start my game how a network internet game, on another computer i don't see my server at the servers list
11:54:43 <Wezz6400> besides, my sence of humor is much, much more weird
11:55:01 <Brianetta> procool: Your server will automatically attempt to add itself to the list
11:55:05 <TrueBrain> procool: if you run a Internet game and enable Advertising
11:55:17 <Brianetta> If the master server can't reach your server, however, it won't list your server.
11:55:17 <TrueBrain> it will be added to the server list, if and only if the game is reachable from the outside world
11:55:20 <procool> but i all ready do is
11:55:30 <TrueBrain> (so make sure you have the correct ports open in your firewall/NAT/router)
11:55:34 <_42_> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
11:56:13 <procool> 3978? i don't know about it..
11:56:29 <TrueBrain> it is only outbound, is mostly allowed by all software
11:57:03 <TrueBrain> 3979 is much more important
11:58:28 <procool> i have a getway, on PF firewall.. i open 3979, start game, and don't see my server at servers list.. so, i'l try to connect to my server from another computer in internet, - connect to ip and port, and game started normaly, so server is worked
11:59:38 <TrueBrain> are you sure you opened UDP too?
12:00:05 <Brianetta> "Belonged to my dad so don't know much about it. Full working order in nice condition."
12:00:31 <Brianetta> Well, johnny-orange, if you knew that these went for £80 new *or* used, you'd have listed it at more than 99 pence...
12:00:44 <procool> TrueBrain: yes, i'm shure
12:00:54 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: you finally found one :p
12:01:13 <Brianetta> Trouble is, it was an easy find
12:01:35 <procool> rdr on $lan1_if proto { tcp, udp } from any to $lan1_if port { 3979 3978 } -> $openttdserver
12:01:42 <Brianetta> I'm not really all that worked up about the 12C anyway
12:01:46 <TrueBrain> procool: make sure advertising is on
12:01:47 <Brianetta> It's a finance calculator
12:02:00 <Brianetta> and has some great interest functions, bot not many that I'd find useful
12:02:34 <TrueBrain> procool: make sure you didn't ban communication to or from that url :p
12:03:00 <procool> TrueBrain: on starting server, i select Internet(advertising), and so..
12:03:16 <procool> ban communication? what is it?
12:03:53 <TrueBrain> maybe you banned the IP :p
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12:04:34 <TrueBrain> if you can open the url above, it should be fine :p
12:05:18 <TrueBrain> grr, I try to run a simple Visual Studio update, but it takes FOR EVER!
12:06:15 <Brianetta> but I can't afford one
12:06:19 <procool> i see this page, from my ip..
12:06:33 <procool> please, try to see - 87.240.28.199
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12:09:01 <TrueBrain> procool: that IP even never TRIED to register itself to the masterserver
12:09:05 <procool> soory, my client has been disconneted from irc
12:09:17 <TrueBrain> (as in: no package ever arrived at the masterserver)
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12:11:06 <procool> i don't understand.. how it can be? port is enable, internet game started, .. pf setuped, .. what's happned?
12:11:43 <Nickman> TrueBrain: could you give me a link to the "todo" page for NoAI on the wiki? I can't seem to find it...
12:11:52 <Wezz6400> are the settings in openttd.cfg correct procool?
12:12:22 <Nickman> I was searching for NoAI Todo :D
12:14:22 <procool> <Wezz6400> what settings you meen? i understand that network... server_name, server_port, pause_on_join, max_join_time, ..
12:14:40 <procool> server_bind_ip = 0.0.0.0
12:14:49 <procool> o! server_advertise = true
12:16:48 <procool> may be, i don't know something...
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12:23:17 <procool> <Wezz6400>, so, you havn't any idea too?
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12:25:04 <Gekko[PDA]> openttd on solaris?
12:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> procool: maybe you misdirected/blocked outgoing traffic through those ports?
12:25:43 <TrueBrain> Gekko[PDA]: runs nicely, yes
12:26:33 <Gekko[PDA]> TrueBrain: you use it?
12:27:02 <Gekko[PDA]> how do you know then?
12:27:12 <TrueBrain> as for i386 solaris we create nightlies
12:27:14 <procool> <Eddi|zuHause>, no.. it is a normal real ip address, without any blocks
12:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you should not use < > around nicks
12:28:44 <procool> Eddi|zuHause, ok, sorry
12:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> only when you quote that person (i.e. copy-paste his sentence)
12:29:25 <blathijs> procool: The standard way is just the nickname followed by ":", as I just did
12:29:36 <dihedral> Brianetta: how are preperations coming along?
12:29:51 <blathijs> procool: Most IRC clients can even do that for you, by typing the first few letters of a nick and then press tab
12:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause> procool: like i just typed "p<tab>"
12:30:44 <procool> blathijs, i see, .. ok, thank you
12:30:47 <TrueBrain> works even in OpenTTD :)
12:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> procool: or just "<tab>" and it uses the last name i completed that way
12:31:21 <procool> Eddi|zuHause, worked:)
12:31:44 * procool thinking about his server problem...
12:32:32 <dihedral> TrueBrain: how is squirrel advancing for the ottd console?
12:32:47 <TrueBrain> First NoAI needs to be finished before even considering that :)
12:32:57 <TrueBrain> but NoAI in fact is hitting completion
12:33:05 <TrueBrain> or rather: initial release
12:33:22 <TrueBrain> the TODO list is getting smaller and smaller :)
12:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "if it compiles, ship it" :p
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12:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know who to actually credit for this quote
12:35:09 <procool> Eddi|zuHause, how you can see that my ip address never used, mmm.. never connected to openttd.org/servers.php ?
12:35:41 <Eddi|zuHause> procool: i can't, but TrueBrain runs the masterserver, he has special access
12:36:11 <procool> Eddi|zuHause, what is it - masterserver?
12:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> masterserver is the server that controls all servers... the site that you mentioned above
12:38:09 <Priski> actually, it just gathers information on all server that send it info
12:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that is, what the people should believe :p
12:39:06 <Priski> i don't think that ottd masterserver has power to shutdown or do anything else to someones server
12:40:03 <procool> TrueBrain, are you game developer
12:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause> he who controls the access to information controls the information itself
12:41:09 <Priski> /whois TrueBrain TrueBrain should tell the answer
12:42:35 <procool> SVN, master-server, and website host...
12:46:10 <procool> so.. i try to debug now...
12:48:48 <procool> may be next debug strings say to you something? please, help me...
12:48:50 <procool> dbg: [NET] Listening on 0.0.0.0:3979
12:48:50 <procool> dbg: [NET][UDP] Listening on port 0.0.0.0:3979
12:48:50 <procool> dbg: [NET][UDP] Listening on port 0.0.0.0:0
12:48:50 <procool> dbg: [NET] Resolved master.openttd.org to 81.171.98.111
12:48:50 <procool> dbg: [NET][UDP] Advertising to master server
12:48:52 <procool> dbg: Loading sprite set 0.
12:48:52 <procool> dbg: Reading indexed grf-file ``TRG1R.GRF''
12:49:12 <procool> is it something wrong in this debug?
12:50:04 <Noldo> can you ping the masterserver?
12:50:27 <procool> [procool@topr ~]$ ping 81.171.98.111
12:50:27 <procool> PING 81.171.98.111 (81.171.98.111): 56 data bytes
12:50:27 <procool> 64 bytes from 81.171.98.111: icmp_seq=0 ttl=50 time=71.465 ms
12:50:27 <procool> 64 bytes from 81.171.98.111: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=69.268 ms
12:51:42 <Noldo> yes would have been enough
12:52:16 <Brianetta> dihedral: Not badly
12:52:26 <Noldo> traceroute that uses udp would be the next interesting thing
12:54:11 <procool> Noldo, Yess... you right..
12:54:36 <procool> $ traceroute -n 81.171.98.111
12:54:36 <procool> traceroute to 81.171.98.111 (81.171.98.111), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
12:54:36 <procool> 1 169.254.0.1 0.340 ms 0.354 ms 0.560 ms
12:54:36 <procool> 2 87.240.28.193 0.762 ms 0.741 ms 0.631 ms
12:54:44 <procool> 7 213.85.171.118 2.800 ms 2.970 ms 3.396 ms
12:54:46 <procool> 8 213.85.171.117 2.666 ms 2.792 ms 2.777 ms
12:54:48 <procool> 9 195.161.2.69 3.380 ms 3.238 ms 2.876 ms
12:54:50 <procool> 10 195.66.224.227 60.884 ms 60.725 ms 60.459 ms
12:54:52 <procool> 11 81.171.102.197 72.286 ms 72.744 ms 76.119 ms
12:54:54 <procool> 12 81.171.73.138 110.402 ms 69.458 ms 69.862 ms
12:54:56 <procool> 13 81.171.98.111 69.183 ms 69.359 ms 69.319 ms
12:57:28 <ln-> ok, kick him already, please.
12:58:03 <Brianetta> procool: WHen you paste stuff, paste it into private messages, please
12:58:23 <procool> Brianetta, ok, sorry, i don't know about it
12:58:32 <dihedral> is that 'please' not redundant? :-)
12:58:46 <Brianetta> dihedral: Not really
12:58:56 <Brianetta> He's free to disobey
12:59:07 <Brianetta> It's just that I'm also free to power up and go mental
12:59:08 <dihedral> appart from helping to making it sound more like its a friendly hint
12:59:40 <dihedral> other than a note that has consequenses if disobeyed
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13:00:43 <dihedral> how hard would it be to add 'copy to clipboard' functionality to the ingame console?
13:01:01 <Brianetta> dihedral: In a cross-platform manner, insanely hard. For any given OS, less hard.
13:01:22 <Noldo> sdl doesn't have such thing?
13:01:24 <Brianetta> I think Windows clipboard support is already in, but I can't test that since I don't run it
13:01:28 <dihedral> and pasting is less hard in cross platfrom manner?
13:01:39 <dihedral> i know that pasting works
13:01:57 <dihedral> though highlighting and copying out does not... at least since i last tried
13:02:08 <Ammlller> in windows, you are able to paste password
13:02:21 <Brianetta> in X, you can't paste
13:02:53 <hylje> different systems paste differently
13:02:58 * Brianetta chomps a yummy Granola bar
13:05:35 <dihedral> another thought - a shared ban list ? for multiple games hosted on the same hardware or via the masterserver if participating is set in the config?
13:07:35 * Brianetta bids on a calculatrix
13:10:08 <[gen2]niki> is there any date for 0.6 alphas? i mean newindustries is in working query for months now... is it really a such big thing?
13:10:59 <glx> and it is not finished yet
13:11:08 <dihedral> 0.6 alphas are available at openttd.org/nightly
13:11:36 <[gen2]niki> well maybe, something stable would be nicer xD + i cant get nightlies running on my rootserver, whyever.
13:11:49 <dihedral> sinse when are alpha releases stable releases?
13:12:19 <procool> Noldo, I have see the traffic, incomming and outgoing from my openttd server.. so - it try to register on master.openttd.org but not recieved any answer from it.. it send register information, i see it on getway, .. but it don't get any answer from it
13:12:24 <[gen2]niki> more stable than nightlies
13:13:31 <Priski> devs are doing their work as much they can, and nightlies arent really supposed to be the most stable release, sort fo they are testversions of future releases
13:14:01 <Brianetta> They're what the current development version happens to be at 8pm
13:15:15 <Priski> I did not mean literally
13:16:13 <Priski> and no, they are not actually testversions, some branch releases are more like that
13:32:16 <procool> ok, i found my bug.. in my /dev/hands :( in one of the rules in my Pocket Filter Firewall i set only tcp packets, but don't set the udp packets mapping...
13:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> nightlys are not releases
13:32:41 <procool> thank you for try to halping my:)
13:38:32 <procool> why only ten clients can play?
13:44:16 <alex_> feel free is programme an extension
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14:50:44 <alex_> anyone avialable to do a quick test for me
14:50:49 <alex_> on one of my openttd servers
14:54:56 <dihedral> is a udp query enough ^^
14:55:15 <dihedral> as in a openttdlib query ^^
14:58:52 <dihedral> let's all ask for TrueBrain ^^
14:59:25 <Nickman> I added my comment to the AI:TODO page ;)
15:00:07 <DorpsGek> dihedral: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 2 hours, 26 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> the TODO list is getting smaller and smaller :)
15:00:31 <_42_> dihedral, if you can't see TrueBrain here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^
15:01:09 <_42_> dihedral, RealLife? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember RealLife.
15:02:02 * dihedral grins from one ear to the other
15:02:20 <dihedral> cut 'em off and i'll grin once round ^^
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15:07:16 <dihedral> so alex_ is a openttdlib query sufficient or do you need a ingame test?
15:10:56 <TrueBrain> @kick dihedral not unexpected
15:10:56 *** dihedral was kicked by DorpsGek (not unexpected)
15:10:59 <TrueBrain> @kick Nickman not unexpected
15:10:59 *** Nickman was kicked by DorpsGek (not unexpected)
15:11:02 <TrueBrain> @kick alex_ not unexpected
15:11:03 *** alex_ was kicked by DorpsGek (not unexpected)
15:11:11 <TrueBrain> I feel so much better now :)
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15:15:51 <TrueBrain> unneeded call for my attention :p
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15:16:38 <dihedral> i'll come back to you if i need one again ^^
15:22:44 <alex_> i need someone to jump on one of my servers, and i just want to check how quickly the map downloads
15:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if my tiny excuse of a garden hose that they call a "broadband connection" suffices as a stress test for a server :p
15:25:30 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, i probably do not have your version anyway
15:26:07 <Nickman> Do I need to add my wanted functions to the TODO list to, or only to the "talk" page?
15:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm quite confident that one instance of a request is enough :p
15:31:18 <TrueBrain> Nickman: you can't add them to the real page :p
15:31:55 <Nickman> then I'm done :D lol :p
15:32:51 <dihedral> alex_: unfort i am at work - hence i asked if the udp query would be enough ^^
15:34:31 <dihedral> but i cannot even reach your game with openttdlib
15:34:37 <dihedral> 78.86.15.85:4024 query timed out
15:37:25 <alex_> maybe your work is blocking that port
15:37:33 <alex_> i have 5 people on that server atm :)
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15:37:50 <alex_> can anyone see how quickly: 78.86.15.85:4024 -> downloads the map?
15:38:09 <dihedral> i tested from my server, there aint no blocked ports
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15:41:06 <dihedral> TrueBrain: i have a question for you
15:41:40 <dihedral> people have asked if i could add a feature to openttdlib, to query the master server for a set of ip's and port numbers to query
15:41:50 <dihedral> but i dont think that is a good idea
15:42:21 <dihedral> just curious to know what you would say to that thought...?
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16:15:57 <Nickman> The drive trough roadstops now work TrueBrain ;)
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16:17:32 <Nickman> Is it possible for me to make a list of stations and towntiles?
16:17:47 <Nickman> because in a List a key can only have one value?
16:32:12 <TrueBrain> I have no idea what you tried to ask Nickman
16:33:21 <Nickman> well, if I make a "List" object, I can add keys and values
16:33:37 <Nickman> but now I would like to make a list where the keys are town tiles
16:33:44 <Nickman> and the valeus are road stations
16:33:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
16:33:58 <Nickman> but one key would be able to have multiple values
16:34:14 <Nickman> I don't think that would work with the available "List" Objects?
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16:39:36 <Bjarni> odds are that you did something to deserve that since last time
16:40:36 <dihedral> he always deserves it ^^
16:40:52 <dihedral> TrueBrain: you around?
16:40:55 <Bjarni> on top of that, he enjoys it >_<
16:41:16 <dihedral> i dont wanna know that
16:41:51 <Bjarni> go somewhere private if you really want to do it
16:43:12 <TrueBrain> Nickman: a list that maps town tiles to road statiosn? How can there be multiple road stations on a single tile? That makes no sense to me...
16:43:42 <Nickman> no, I mean the center town tile, so I can acces them
16:44:06 <Nickman> I give a towntile (the one you get from the townlocation) and then I want to be able to get all the town stations from a list
16:44:16 <Nickman> those willa ll be different tiles
16:44:33 <dihedral> TrueBrain - what do you think of OpenTTDLib fetching ip's and ports from the master server to query?
16:45:21 <hylje> you can go to irc harvest ips just fine
16:45:23 <TrueBrain> dihedral: bad idea, I see no reason for it
16:45:34 <TrueBrain> servers.openttd.org already lists all servers, no need for any other page to do the same
16:45:50 <dihedral> just wanted to check - was the same thing i said
16:46:03 <TrueBrain> Nickman: I see; the thing I will add to the API, is a function that shows all stations within town-radius, per town
16:46:10 <dihedral> no - it was a request by some guys
16:46:17 <TrueBrain> but no, you can't have all the towns and stations within town-radius in one list
16:46:45 <TrueBrain> dihedral: if someone can show me how it can be useful, I might change my mind; till then: sounds like a bad idea ;)
16:47:00 <dihedral> TrueBrain: fully agree
16:47:06 <Nickman> I have made a function myself wich checks all the tiles in a certain regean around the town :)
16:47:11 <dihedral> though i would know where it might make sense
16:47:35 <Nickman> but maybe there should be another type of list in wich you can map one key to multiple values?
16:47:45 <Nickman> that way you can make any list you want youreself? :)
16:47:48 <dihedral> say i make a webservice for others to use and use url get vars to determin host and port
16:48:12 <TrueBrain> Nickman: not in AI API
16:48:16 <dihedral> then checking if they are registered with the master server before simply sending udp packets would make sense
16:48:35 <Nickman> where then TrueBrain ?
16:48:37 <TrueBrain> dihedral: we can add a thing that checks if a pair of host and port are known to the MS
16:48:47 <TrueBrain> Nickman: dunno, in your local work copy? :p
16:48:58 <Nickman> My AI builds bus stations and let a bus run trough them :D
16:49:21 <dihedral> sounds nice TrueBrain but atm i am still working on getting newgrf data back ^^
16:49:38 <TrueBrain> Nickman: nice work :)
16:49:47 <TrueBrain> now I go and figure out how to make applications for my mobile phone..
16:49:51 <Nickman> I'm getting the hang of Squirrel :)
16:49:58 <TrueBrain> after installing 4 GiB of applications, it seems that I can start doing so...
16:50:28 <Nickman> I'll try to make another List DataStructure and file in a patch or something when I get back home ;).
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17:22:06 <Sacro> maley123/graphics_master
17:22:13 <dihedral> someone who managed to bombard you with tons of questions?
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17:35:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10739 /branches/0.5/train_cmd.c: [0.5] -Fix [FS#1096]: trains going over bridges would get the "going down hill" accelerate bonus, which causes trains to go faster on bridges than they would be going on level land.
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18:16:21 <Wolf01> boekabart, what about the *water* patch?
18:18:15 <ln-> Bjarni: have you evaluated the patch?
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19:01:42 <boekabart> Wolf01: What about the water patch?
19:02:06 <boekabart> afaic, i'm waiting for dev comments/interest
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19:10:26 <peter1138> crystal ball time again? pomtepom
19:11:15 <Prof_Frink> peter1138! funkysignals!
19:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause> NEWfunkysignals?
19:22:12 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: No, 'cause ottd has no funkysignals
19:22:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but it has to be a newsomthing, everything is a newsomething
19:32:34 <Prof_Frink> valhallasw: ttdpatch's routing restrictions
19:33:56 <valhallasw> 'It ensures linear working time, at a huge memory cost' <-- I just love CS
19:34:07 <Prof_Frink> oh, yes, peter1138!
19:34:11 <valhallasw> (recursive-descent parser with backtracking
19:44:28 <valhallasw> someone here with ideas on how to construct a lexer for a backtracking recursive parser?
19:44:56 <Nickman> someone here know with the Squirrel implementation?
19:45:10 <Nickman> How to register certain functions to it?
19:48:06 <Rubidium> there's a nice squirrel-export script for that (assuming you want to export functions in src/ai/api)
19:49:26 <Rubidium> with a little bit of awk + sed magic
19:49:58 <Nickman> do I just execute squirrel_export.sh?
19:55:39 <Nickman> ./squirrel_export.sh: line 73: 3063 Segmentation fault (core dumped) awk -f ${f}.awk ${f} > ${f}.tmp
19:55:53 <Nickman> I just did ./squirrel_export.sh
19:57:12 <Nickman> how can I check wich one is used and how do I change it?
19:58:27 <Nickman> I get "mawk" when I do "man awk" :)
19:58:36 <Rubidium> well, then you're screwed
19:58:53 <Nickman> hmmmm, I can't change it?
19:58:57 <Nickman> wich one is a good one?
19:59:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you're on the way to destruction, make your time!
19:59:46 <Nickman> I'll take a look around ;)
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19:59:48 <Rubidium> mawk seems to be having trouble with splitting "long" strings
20:00:06 <Nickman> if I suddenly leave, broke it :D
20:00:10 <Rubidium> but I couldn't care to post a bug report
20:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "long" == ">255"?
20:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause> strange number...
20:01:59 <Nickman> the ubuntu package manager can install gawk so, let's go for it ;)
20:02:31 <Rubidium> ghehe... when ubuntu can't install gawk you should ditch it very fast
20:03:20 <Nickman> should be done, let's retry
20:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the number before 256 and after 254
20:04:23 <Red> helps when I type into the correct window lol
20:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you really should've said 42 :)
20:04:57 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Servers online: 143; Running version 0.5.2 (latest): 95; Clients online: 113
20:05:38 <Eddi|zuHause> why are there more servers than clients?
20:06:10 <Rubidium> cause about 125 are not used at all
20:09:06 <Phazorx> what's the difference in client behavior between solo play and being connected to dedicated server?
20:09:29 <Phazorx> to make it even simplier case - ony one player on server
20:09:35 <Rubidium> CTRL-ALT-C opens the cheat menu
20:09:50 <Rubidium> on solo and not when connected to a server
20:10:05 <Rubidium> and enter opens the chat window when connected and does nothing when not connected
20:10:39 <Rubidium> all commands are delayed a tick
20:10:39 <Prof_Frink> So... When're vi bindings going to be added to openttd?
20:10:46 <Phazorx> my point is - when i log in to server - lag out instantly... and when DL that game and play solo - it works fine
20:11:19 <Rubidium> maybe the server is not paused when your client tries to catch up
20:11:37 <Nickman> Rubidium: what do I change to add my files to the make file?
20:12:03 <Rubidium> and the client can easily lag without getting "real" trouble for a few seconds in solo
20:12:17 <Rubidium> when it (for example) is building up it's YAPF caches
20:12:24 <Rubidium> and I assume you're talking about trunk
20:12:54 <Rubidium> Nickman: grep -R 'ai_vehicle.cpp" .
20:13:00 <Rubidium> Nickman: grep -R 'ai_vehicle.cpp' .
20:13:14 <Rubidium> (don't use two different kinds of quotes, it messes up stuff ;)
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20:28:55 <Rubidium> then you've ran it in the wrong directory ;)
20:29:13 <Rubidium> do you have IO activity?
20:29:44 <Nickman> I'm running it in the main directory of the svn checkout?
20:30:24 <Rubidium> then you probably mixed ' and " or forgot to close them (i.e. have an even number of them)
20:30:49 <Nickman> I used this : "grep -R 'ai_vehicle.cpp'"
20:30:54 <Nickman> without the " ofcourse ;)
20:31:23 <Rubidium> that's going to take forever
20:31:46 <Nickman> so, what do I have to do then? :p
20:31:52 <Rubidium> as it is grepping the input of the console
20:32:42 <Nickman> the space too I see :D
20:36:35 <Nickman> the source.list file it is
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20:39:57 <_42_> Eddi|zuHause: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
20:47:05 <Phazorx> Rubidium: yes, trunk or close to it, server is paused on join and i remains paused till later it is manualy unpaused
20:48:05 <Phazorx> with all vehicle stopped it works fine, it is possible to buuld. no visual lag, cpu usega <20%... as soon as action starts to happen it turns into slide show with pegged CPU and eventualy (winting few minutres, looses conenction)
20:48:55 <Phazorx> if at that point of time the map is DLed and seved - it is playbale locally, with spikes to 100% but quite fluient on all other cases with average usage <80%
20:49:17 <Phazorx> i can also start on same PC dedicated server with same map and in unpaused mode usage is 70-80%
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20:49:33 <Rubidium> Phazorx: close to trunk is a useless statement as it tells me absolutely nothing
20:50:14 <Phazorx> 10620, wth yapf caching
20:52:28 <Rubidium> the game only starts building caches once the vehicles start running
20:53:01 <Phazorx> correct but it doesnt take 5 minutes
20:53:04 <Rubidium> when that takes a while, you are a few frames behind the server and you have to catch up with the server, which makes it go 100%
20:53:42 <Phazorx> vehicles are stopped when i join
20:53:53 <Phazorx> so cache build gradualy on both server and client i presume?
20:54:18 <Rubidium> you said the that stand alone it spikes at 100% too. When it then takes 300 ms for that frame instead of 30, you basically pause the game for 300 ms and then continue at 30 ms intervals
20:54:43 <Rubidium> when you have that "issue" at the server you are 10 frames behind the server and have to play catchup
20:55:02 <Rubidium> and with 80-90% CPU that means you can catch up a max of 5 ms per frame
20:55:13 <Phazorx> Rubidium: there is a huge visual diffrence between solo and MP, spikes happen on any map actually, cant say what exactly they are related too
20:56:44 <peter1138> when solo, if a frame takes longer than 30ms to run, then so be it
20:56:55 <peter1138> in mp, it has to catch up with the server
20:56:58 <Rubidium> yes, it could be that the client stops blitting for a few frames to catch up with the server faster
20:57:27 <Phazorx> hmm... okay, any idea on what could be happening during the spiek?
20:57:40 <Rubidium> day tick, month tick, year tick
20:57:40 <Phazorx> i mean it is not initial sycn and cache building it is something ongoing
20:58:07 <Phazorx> but it should be regular in solo then as well, rather than ocasional spike?
20:58:28 <Rubidium> depends what is occasional
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20:58:43 <Phazorx> not mroe often than once per minute realtime
20:58:57 <Phazorx> so say once per game month or so?
20:58:59 <Rubidium> Phazorx: so once a month...
20:59:27 <Rubidium> could be autosave too
20:59:34 <Phazorx> and there is a lot of acitivity that client wont be able to catchup after and will lag forever since?
21:00:12 <Rubidium> I don't get that question
21:00:21 <Rubidium> or you are asking something really really strange
21:00:44 <Rubidium> like: since when is this behaviour of catching up with the server implemented?
21:00:46 <Phazorx> well how much more activity is in day/month/year tick compared to regular?
21:01:01 <Rubidium> that totally depends on the game
21:01:18 <Rubidium> and I never could be bothered to compare it
21:01:26 <Phazorx> hmm... i guess it does, but lost of industrie and vehicles?
21:01:39 <Phazorx> Rubidium: well ball park it
21:02:31 <Phazorx> cuz by my calculation if it is less than 100x it should recover within 500 ticks on 80% load
21:03:20 <Rubidium> somewhere between 1 and ∞
21:03:39 <Phazorx> i cant even profile that :/
21:03:47 <Rubidium> as I said before, I never had the urge to check it
21:04:16 <Phazorx> is there a top level day/month/year tick function ?
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21:04:42 <peter1138> they're spread around
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21:06:09 <Phazorx> peter1138: i know in profiling it counts all childs independantly but there is spreadout by time, miliseecond by millisecond in gpro report, i can see how loing it took
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21:37:08 <Progman> is ChangeDirDiff(DIRDIFF_45RIGHT, DIRDIFF_90RIGHT); valid for the compiler and for the game as there is no enum for 45?+90? right?
21:44:39 <Nickman> when I compile release, can I just copy the executable and the lang map to an existing OTTD folder?
21:51:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no, also the data directory is needed
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22:02:28 <ln-> zomfg, man kann bahntv online gucken.
22:09:32 <ln-> one of these videos from the cockpit again..
22:10:32 <ln-> mehrere überraschungen als in pr0n.
22:53:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: richk * r10740 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/airport.h: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: Order of vars in MovingData struct modified for gcc compilation.
22:55:07 <ln-> Bjarni: mms://atkon-atkbtvolive-wmv-high.wm.llnwd.net/atkon_atkbtvolive_wmv_high
22:56:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: richk * r10741 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
22:56:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NewGRF_ports] -Feature: Added multiblock import from newgrf. Catchment area (Prop 22) added.
22:56:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rb_airport2.grf : Commuter airport FSM updated to include catchment area, and multiblock lock on pos 0x10 Flying. Will only commence landing if both runway, and inway (pos 14) are clear.
23:02:23 <Bjarni> now it started working... I wonder why it took so long
23:02:57 <ln-> they just drove over the long bridge in rendsburg
23:12:48 <ln-> (seems like Bjarni can't irc and watch a video at the same time)
23:31:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: richk * r10742 /branches/NewGRF_ports/src/newgrf.cpp: [NewGRF_ports] -Change: size_x and size_y needed to be stored in FTAClass for correct calculation of Cargo Acceptance.
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23:47:31 <Mizipzor> can the source be compiled with visual studio 2003?
23:54:51 <Mizipzor> Eddi|zuHause, im doing that now
23:56:29 <Mizipzor> looks like i should opt to install the express edition
continue to next day ⏵