IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-07-18
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02:09:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10607 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix r10605: use '&&' in preprocessor directives (MSVC doesn't like 'and')
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02:44:11 <neo_> some german in this channel?
02:44:50 <Belugas> there might be a few. At least one that i remember
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02:46:37 <neo_> i need help to connect an ottd server that run a long time. If some one want connect thy los the connection. Some one know what i can do.
02:53:29 <Belugas> and i need to go to sleep
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06:10:53 <TrueBrain> how are we doing today?
06:11:27 <TrueBrain> let me put up a nice music
06:12:53 * Smoovious touches the brim of his black hat to TrueBrain
06:13:34 <TrueBrain> and now, now I am bored
06:13:40 <TrueBrain> what will I be doing today...
06:14:29 <TrueBrain> subways? Not my area :)
06:14:58 <TrueBrain> maybe I should revive my demo-patch
06:15:06 <TrueBrain> bleh, too many projects
06:15:24 <Smoovious> ... not enuf motivation?
06:15:49 <TrueBrain> no, too many projects :)
06:16:10 <Smoovious> ahh... in my case, they both go hand-in-hand
06:16:21 <Smoovious> lose interest too fast
06:16:40 <TrueBrain> that only happens when I do not start doing something :)
06:16:47 <TrueBrain> when I am back busy doing something, the interest is bac k:p
06:18:11 <Smoovious> has there been a consensus about the method to save passwords in network games yet?
06:18:37 <TrueBrain> I have no idea! Didn't follow that discussion
06:19:00 <TrueBrain> I would store it plain-text, as nobody gives a rat
06:19:53 <Noldo> the server owner will be able to reset them somehow anyway
06:20:10 <TrueBrain> and the server owner can read your password now too
06:20:16 <TrueBrain> (a simple packet-filter will show it)
06:20:19 <TrueBrain> or a simple code-hack
06:20:42 <Noldo> plain-text over network is another thing
06:20:54 <Smoovious> just so long as when a game is reloaded, the passwords are retained, is all I really care about
06:21:18 <TrueBrain> so store it plaintext in the savegame, and it will be like that
06:21:36 <TrueBrain> would take the average client about 10 minutes to find the password and login to your company, but you can't have it all
06:21:37 <Noldo> but make it so that if you save in on the client...
06:21:47 <Smoovious> I'd prefer the savegame, but there's been a lot o f opposition
06:21:51 <TrueBrain> (also easy to resolve btw :p)
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06:22:23 <TrueBrain> (as in, on client-savegame send, do not store the passwords)
06:22:44 <Desolator> why don't store the hashes on the server?
06:22:50 <Desolator> in a separate file?
06:23:04 <TrueBrain> yeah, let's create tons of files!
06:23:09 <TrueBrain> who gives a rat anyway
06:23:40 <TrueBrain> if I move my savegame from server1 to server2, I expect, no, demand the passwords to be intact either
06:23:47 <Desolator> and tell the client to send the md5 of the password and it's compared server-side, then reply with OK or NO
06:24:25 <TrueBrain> in my hard opinion: overcomplication of a simple thing
06:24:32 <TrueBrain> but okay, I was not getting into this discussion :)
06:24:38 <Desolator> well, got any other ideas?
06:24:47 <peter1138> md5sum is what i'd do, but apparently that isn't secure enough these days
06:24:57 <TrueBrain> peter1138: base the md5 on nothing, and you are safe
06:25:09 <TrueBrain> just take the day, the savegame name, and the server-computer-clock
06:25:13 <TrueBrain> and send the md5 back to server and client
06:25:23 <TrueBrain> even reversing that shit will result in.. well.. nothing...
06:25:43 <TrueBrain> but again: who gives a shit if the passwords are there plaintext on the server?
06:25:50 <TrueBrain> sniffing the network will result in the passwords anyway
06:25:56 <Smoovious> think the level of security issue is overblown tho
06:26:13 <TrueBrain> so: need for encryption? NO!
06:26:17 <Desolator> Smoovious: I said that on the forums, too
06:26:32 <TrueBrain> like protecting your house with 100 locks and I dunno what more
06:26:36 <TrueBrain> and leave your front door wide open
06:26:43 <Desolator> they're some damn passwords, if someone steal a company the admin can ban him
06:27:00 <Desolator> that's...the same text
06:27:13 <TrueBrain> we have an Einstein here!
06:27:26 <peter1138> TrueBrain: sniffing is a bit harder than download a savegame as a spectator and getting them from there
06:27:39 <TrueBrain> peter1138: as I just said, just make the client-savegame without passwords
06:27:51 <TrueBrain> (just an extra SLE_XXX in the worst case)
06:27:56 <Smoovious> they shouldn't be saved in the save sent to a connecting user
06:28:09 <TrueBrain> but most likely a new chunk can do that just fine
06:28:13 <Smoovious> thhe o nly password the clients s hould h ave in t heir g ame, is their own
06:28:32 * peter1138 smacks Smoovious' spacebar
06:28:42 <TrueBrain> peter1138: so would there anything wrong with that solution?
06:28:57 <Smoovious> cut it out, peter1138... the eybouncing is bad enuf already
06:28:58 <TrueBrain> so I guess we have a solution :p
06:29:28 <Smoovious> great... code it up, TrueBrain! :D >runs<
06:29:46 <TrueBrain> just on password put-in, it should give you a warning: passwords ARE stored plaintext on the server, do NOT use your normal-all-access password
06:29:51 <TrueBrain> for which ever morron does that anyway...
06:30:26 <Smoovious> people should have a few frequently re-used unimportant passwords anyways
06:30:51 <TrueBrain> I always take sound of animals, really useful!
06:32:51 <Smoovious> I use words from fictional alien languages from sci fi books
06:46:40 <TrueBrain> k, Smoovious, let's see if my easy patch works :p
06:47:10 <TrueBrain> it does compile, so that is something :p
06:51:33 <TrueBrain> haha, we have a storage code called 'SLE_STRING', which is never used, and asserts :)
06:51:48 <Smoovious> probably why it is never used...
06:56:13 <TrueBrain> it has code in many places which should allow support for it, but on the places where it matters, it isn't there...
06:56:28 <TrueBrain> like finding lights in a house, but no light bubbles
06:57:58 <TrueBrain> okay, settings do use part of the code for string storing..
06:58:17 <Smoovious> kinda like whoever did it was expecting other programming for it, which never happened?
06:58:28 <TrueBrain> peter1138: in an SlObject?
06:58:29 <peter1138> but it uses SLE_STR nor SLE_VAR
06:58:47 <TrueBrain> and SLE_CONDSTR doesn't exists...
06:59:13 <TrueBrain> huh? You are right...
06:59:15 <peter1138> it's just not used yet
06:59:23 <TrueBrain> wait, length argument :)
06:59:42 <TrueBrain> that most likely is why it uses SLE_STR
07:00:58 <peter1138> you can use 0 for the length, heh
07:01:09 <TrueBrain> yeah, but it is a static string size, so...
07:01:23 <TrueBrain> but okay, 0 is more useful in this case I guess
07:02:07 <peter1138> if it's a fixed buffer use the length of that
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07:02:26 <TrueBrain> doesn't really matter
07:02:32 <TrueBrain> but I use SLE_STRINGBUF
07:12:42 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I thought chunks not handled were ignored, but if they are in the savegame, they NEED to be handled
07:20:06 <hylje> oh noooooooes data inconsistency ;_;
07:34:35 <TrueBrain> hmm, technical wrong :p haha
07:43:31 <peter1138> you need to conditionally save it, not conditionally load ;)
07:43:57 <TrueBrain> so reload the patch :)
07:44:04 <TrueBrain> solves an other bug: if you join a company with a password
07:44:11 <TrueBrain> and go to company, Set Password
07:44:14 <TrueBrain> it shows th epassword again
07:44:27 <peter1138> + /* Do not store passwords if the company doens't have any */
07:44:31 <peter1138> + if (_network_player_info[p->index].password[0] == '\0') continue;
07:44:35 <peter1138> does that work right?
07:44:42 <peter1138> oh yes, it stores the player index later
07:44:43 <TrueBrain> didn't test thatone in fact, is my latest addition :p
07:45:05 <TrueBrain> but I see no reason why it wouldn't work
07:46:03 <peter1138> then we need a console command to reset a password
07:46:21 <Smoovious> why would seeing thhe password of a company you already joined be a problem?
07:46:22 <TrueBrain> isn't there already?
07:46:37 <TrueBrain> Smoovious: currently you don't see that, which annoys people (which is logic)
07:47:01 <TrueBrain> one thing it doesn't fix though, is if client A in company A changes the password, and client B in company A is also connected; he won't see that
07:47:35 <Smoovious> output a line to th e chat window, confirming the password change?
07:47:36 <TrueBrain> but okay, it is something :)
07:48:38 <peter1138> in fact a console to set a company password might be handy
07:48:52 <TrueBrain> but okay, that all are other patches :)
07:49:00 <TrueBrain> I just wanted to show how simple storing passwords can be done
07:49:04 <Smoovious> it'd definitely save me the troublel of logging into all the computer players and setting passwords on them
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08:19:37 <Tlustoch> So you are going to make pathfinder without terraforming??
08:20:34 <Smoovious> should be possible, since we can build on slopes now
08:20:39 <TrueBrain> Tlustoch: at first, yes
08:20:48 <Smoovious> maybe limited terraforming to flatten enuf space to place the station
08:23:19 <Tlustoch> I think that YAPF will be quite useless when you start terraforming.
08:23:53 <Tlustoch> It just has no terraforming options.
08:24:02 <Tlustoch> It's for finding route, not building.
08:24:07 <TrueBrain> it has no terraforming options _yet_
08:26:51 <TrueBrain> but Tlustoch, if you think you can do better, please do :) Your patch is welcome! Anything smarter than my Stupid Pathfinder is welcome :)
08:28:27 <Tlustoch> My personal opinion is that with this approach you will have problems to do something better.
08:28:43 <TrueBrain> and why would that be?
08:29:19 <Tlustoch> The YAPF code is hard to read but I would say that it tries to find just any first straightforward route.
08:29:43 <TrueBrain> that isn't true, but besides all that; which ever approach we take now, doesn't force us to take any approach later
08:29:50 <TrueBrain> we just need things to work with, so you can make a working AI
08:29:59 <TrueBrain> from that point on, imrpvoements are always possible, anywhere, any time
08:31:11 <Smoovious> how are the scripts for the NoAI supposed to work anyways? like... implemented...
08:32:14 <TrueBrain> I don't get what you mean with: implemented
08:32:17 <Smoovious> well, thought the NoAI branch was supposed to make it possible for there to be different AI's a vailable
08:32:45 <Tlustoch> I am playing with this visual planner now.
08:32:48 <Smoovious> like... each AI is a sepperate file? where would it be put... how would client//server insure they're both running t he same AI file, etc etc
08:33:14 <TrueBrain> Smoovious: 1) read the wiki-entry, 2) read the forum-topic, 3) download the NoAI binaries and give it a shot :)
08:33:17 <TrueBrain> you would be suprised :)
08:33:36 <TrueBrain> but okay: networking: the clients do not even need to have the AI, the server runs it and the clients get it as any other client
08:33:46 <TrueBrain> and the rest is clearly answered in the wiki-entry
08:33:55 <Smoovious> that was the issue I was most concerned about
08:34:20 <Noldo> Tlustoch: it seems to me that Yapf there isn't "trying to find just any first straightforward route"
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08:36:19 <Tlustoch> It does because it doesn't have any terraforming options :-)
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08:39:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10608 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Documentation: comment some functions to make Doxygen happy
08:40:18 <KUDr> Tlustoch: YAPF is only skeleton for any A* based PF - you must write custom follower for you application (that understands all movement options) and your PfCost (that can tell which option is better)
08:41:28 <KUDr> so everything is possible but with terraforming you will not have just 3 options how to follow to the next node but much more - so the number of approaches you will need to test is MUCH bigger
08:42:01 <KUDr> and of course it can become unusable (too slow)
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08:51:33 <Tlustoch> I see that it does not prefer longest straight route.
08:52:31 <Tlustoch> It changes direction only before obstacle.
08:53:05 <KUDr> it is not feature of YAPF itself
08:53:35 <Tlustoch> The cost is same, if you will do curve now or later.
08:53:49 <Tlustoch> But if you will do curve sooner, you can achieve longer straight way.
08:54:32 <TrueBrain> so give a bonus for every straight tile, and it will work out perfectly
08:54:58 <KUDr> curve on water is penalized by 10 points (like one straight tile cost)
08:55:17 <Tlustoch> I am trying with rails.
08:55:25 <Tlustoch> Maybe I should make screenshot
08:55:50 <KUDr> for trains you can customize curve penalty
08:56:19 <KUDr> everything depends on cost
08:56:50 <KUDr> if you think it should be better tunned, do it and post bug
08:56:57 <TrueBrain> and penalties can only do so much :)
08:57:21 <KUDr> the path choosen is based on penalties
08:58:05 <KUDr> like in real life - (i.e. hight speed penalty)
08:58:21 <KUDr> i will quickly learn to not do it again :)
08:58:51 <TrueBrain> "I will", as he does in the future
08:58:54 <TrueBrain> so he needs one more... :p
08:59:15 <KUDr> yes, one more attempt is needed in the real life
08:59:29 <KUDr> but YAPF can roll-back and try different way
09:01:15 <Tlustoch> manually built route is obviously better
09:02:07 <TrueBrain> depends on the max-speed of the train
09:02:22 <KUDr> ahh, you are playing with JazzyJaffa's pathc!
09:02:32 <Tlustoch> Yes, but in lot of situations this will be better
09:02:32 <KUDr> why didn't you tell that
09:03:01 <KUDr> this is only fist approach and all is Jaffa's code not YAPF
09:03:13 <KUDr> YAPF is there only used as skeleton
09:03:37 <Tlustoch> So how would YAPF solve the problem on the screenshot?
09:03:39 <KUDr> so please don't tell such things like "YAPF preffers..." - they are not true
09:03:58 <KUDr> YAPF is not responsible for which route is taken
09:04:18 <KUDr> YAPF is infrastructure that allows you to make custom PF
09:04:26 <KUDr> in very fast / simple way
09:04:30 <Noldo> Tlustoch: if you remove that little hill it will make the "laneswitch" in the end?
09:04:39 <KUDr> it is used there as such framework
09:04:56 <KUDr> all cost calculations are made by Jaffa
09:05:48 <Tlustoch> Do you have some tutorial how to work with YAPF?
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09:06:17 <KUDr> this Jaffa's route planner could be easily made on top of NPF instead and would work thesame way
09:06:33 <KUDr> would you then tell that "NPF doesn't prefer..."?
09:06:59 <KUDr> it is for programers (advanced)
09:07:08 <KUDr> but try NPF - it is much simpler
09:07:35 <KUDr> less optimized but easier to learn
09:08:19 <KUDr> you can learn from existing implementations (trains, RVs, etc)
09:08:38 <KUDr> they are commented so it should be enough
09:09:10 <Tlustoch> What about junctions?
09:09:21 <Tlustoch> Does YAPF handle it?
09:09:56 <KUDr> follower must report "more than one option" and YAPF/NPF skeleton will do the rest
09:11:14 <Tlustoch> I mean if you have to cross another rail, if it will make junction or avoid it. And when it does junctions, if the trains will be not stucked.
09:11:24 <KUDr> read some A* article first and you will understand better what i am talkingabout
09:11:55 <KUDr> which implementation you are talking about?
09:12:01 <Tlustoch> There are better algorithms than A* :-)
09:12:21 <KUDr> ok, then do it better way
09:12:22 <Tlustoch> Just YAPF, corssing another rail is general problem.
09:12:32 <KUDr> your patch will be welcome
09:12:40 <KUDr> if it will do better job
09:13:15 <KUDr> it is only 'cost' problem
09:13:27 <KUDr> you must implement penalty for such crossing
09:13:32 <Tlustoch> But you have to build signals.
09:13:49 <KUDr> heh, what areyou talking about?
09:14:01 <KUDr> it has nothing to do with pathfinding
09:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> Tlustoch: YAPF does not build anything
09:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is totally up to you what you do with the return value of YAPF
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09:15:18 <KUDr> Tlustoch: post me your phone number - we can clarify it better using phone :)
09:15:33 <Tlustoch> So you will need another algorithm for building junctions :-)
09:15:41 <Tlustoch> I am very poor - I don't have phone.
09:16:02 <Tlustoch> And I want to try my aproach first.
09:16:06 <TrueBrain> KUDr: code for he doesn't want to talk to you irl :p
09:21:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10609 /branches/noai/ (12 files in 3 dirs):
09:21:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added GetAirportWidth / GetAirportHeight
09:21:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added GetCoverageRadius / GetAirportCoverageRadius
09:21:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: AiportAvailable was bugged, returned always true for AT_SMALL
09:21:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change: improved WrightAI to work from 1950 (based on above functions)
09:23:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10610 /branches/noai/bin/ai/wrightai/main.nut: [NoAI] -Fix r10609: typo in WrightAI
09:24:19 <Rubidium> Noldo: ofcourse you know what wright means, right?
09:25:15 <TrueBrain> morning Rubidium :)
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09:28:37 <Rubidium> you don't need to do COND stuff for new chunks
09:29:17 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: absolutely true, but I think it is a bit more clear :)
09:29:27 <Rubidium> does stringbuf "just" write the whole buffer?
09:29:37 <TrueBrain> no, it writes the string, with the max size of 'len'
09:30:15 <TrueBrain> but okay, I can avoid the savegame bump
09:30:35 <Rubidium> NetworkPlayerInfo isn't available without networking
09:30:51 <Rubidium> neither is NETWORK_PASSWORD_LENGTH (IIRC)
09:31:12 <Rubidium> _network_player_info[p->index].password[0] == '\0' <- StrEmpty(...)
09:31:13 <TrueBrain> oh, _network_store_password_desc should be inside the ENABLE_NETWORK block
09:37:14 <Rubidium> I'm still not very comfortable with storing the password in the savegame; for example Brianetta regularly posts savegames of the currently running game on his website (and of previous games)
09:37:34 <Rubidium> which makes it still quite easy to do harm
09:38:02 <TrueBrain> which ever way to pick, a client will be able to find a way around it if you start posting savegames of current running games
09:38:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd prefer separate file...
09:38:36 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: not if you do not store the password in the savegame, but a separate file
09:38:46 <TrueBrain> then moving savegames from host to host fails badly with passwords too, and blabla continues
09:39:16 <Rubidium> yeah, but how often do you move a network game to another server?
09:39:26 <TrueBrain> personally I do it pretty often
09:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> you could do a *.sav and a *.pwd file, if you want to move servers, you have to copy both, if you want to publish the game, only copy the .sav
09:39:59 <TrueBrain> anyway, I think it overcomplicate things that aren't secure to start with
09:40:15 <TrueBrain> if users want to get into someone else's company that badly
09:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not that difficult and you have complete control
09:40:39 <TrueBrain> as I tihnk I can get into any company within some minutes
09:42:18 <Rubidium> I really want you to try that, but I can't set up a server with a client that has a password at the moment
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10:41:32 <mikk36> no more java with firefox :D
10:54:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10611 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
10:54:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: improved FindBestXXX, it now finds the fastest, biggest vehicle available
10:54:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API]: FindBestXXX now takes max_cost as 3rd param, to find a vehicle below a given treshhold
10:54:28 <TrueBrain> now WrightAI buys concordes when they are possible :)
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11:10:11 <Gekko> I don't like the concorde
11:10:16 <Gekko> I don't find it useful whatsoever
11:10:27 <Gekko> I love that russian plane in one of those grfs
11:10:35 <Gekko> I get $200,000 everytime it lands for mail!
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11:34:25 <Smoovious> mail gets ignored too much... it is actually a good cargo... just gotta plan it right
11:34:53 <Smoovious> did a game once where I did nothing but mail
11:35:22 <Smoovious> and no subsidies... >hint hint to add my subsidies patch :) <
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11:50:54 <mikk36> Noldo, after firefox upgraded itself to 2.0.0.5, it announced that java console 6.0.1 is no longer compatible with firefox :D
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12:04:56 <Noldo> JazzyJaffa: how's the ship pf thing going?
12:07:16 <Phazorx> hmm... Rubidium which is that tunnels/bridges bug on FS? so i can just look up there instead of asking here about progress :)
12:10:39 <Phazorx> thank you... checking
12:11:03 <Phazorx> i tihnk it was introduces with 513 so yeah
12:12:13 <Phazorx> hmm... it says peter is working on that one...
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12:49:13 <Tlustoch> How do I define constant multidemnsional array, when I want to associate first dimension with constant?
12:50:28 <Tlustoch> For example const int A=1, const int B=2; const int C[4][3] and I want to say that C[A]={'1','2','3'}
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12:53:53 <blathijs> Tlustoch: int C[4][3] = {{1, 2, 3}} might do what you want
12:54:06 <blathijs> Tlustoch: Don't know what it will do with the other elements though
12:55:00 <glx> blathijs: but that init C[0] I think
12:55:10 <Tlustoch> You can do it easily as nonconstant, but I don't know how to write it as constant.
13:04:48 <blathijs> Tlustoch: Ah, like that...
13:04:52 <blathijs> Don't think you can do that
13:09:38 <Tlustoch> How do I make array with range from -2 to 2?
13:10:06 <blathijs> Or, you add 2 when indexing the array :-)
13:10:37 <Noldo> you can make a class in c++ that works like that
13:12:02 <Sacro> i hate linux currentrly
13:15:27 <Sacro> it's being an arse with my network
13:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> {'1','2','3'} = "123"?
13:25:21 <Ailure> what kind of network is it anyway
13:25:30 <Ailure> if it's SMB, then i'm not surprised
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13:34:44 <Sacro> Gekko[PDA]: are you stalking me :o
13:35:15 <Gekko[PDA]> i waz considering it
13:35:39 <Sacro> i mean.... is that you in #archlinux on freenode?
13:36:12 <Sacro> i've not been on efnet in yeeeeeeeeeeears
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13:57:55 <JazzyJaffa> Noldo: Just cleaning it up for a patch, works well but could do with some route caching for performance that equals trains.
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14:16:02 <Timwi> Can someone explain in a few words what a "prospecting industry" is or what it means to "prospect a new industry"?
14:18:03 <Belugas> prospecting is paying for the research (prospection) of a new industry somewhere on the map
14:18:48 <Belugas> it is different than simply building an industry, in the sens that (code-wise) there is a chance the prospection will eventually fail
14:18:53 <Belugas> but you did paid for it
14:19:13 <Belugas> so, if it fails, you will loose money without having a new industry creatd
14:20:20 <Belugas> if it succeed in prospecting, a new industry will be created and you will be credited for the cost of it
14:20:27 <Belugas> it is a feature required for newindutries
14:20:53 <Belugas> it was designed by a TTDPatch dev initially
14:21:11 <Belugas> part of the moreindustry patch
14:21:25 <Belugas> ok... that was not "few words" :P
14:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> as long as it is finite :p
14:27:40 <Belugas> ho... one more thing : it only applies to primary industries, i.e: extractive and organic ones
14:28:06 <Belugas> like mines and farms, oil extraction and all...
14:30:49 <Belugas> mmh... is it me or the user does not pay when it failed?
14:31:19 <Timwi> Thanks for the description, I'm trying to find a good German translation for it
14:32:12 <Belugas> ok, user wil be credited. cool. Good job Rubidium :)
14:33:31 <Timwi> "to work (a mine or claim) experimentally in order to test its value." I suppose this is the meaning of "to prospect" used here?
14:34:26 <Timwi> It seems like a rather technical industry term, which is not in any normal German dictionary :/
14:36:57 <ln-> nicht sicher, aber solche wort existiert.
14:37:26 <Timwi> I know, but I'm not sure if it's used in industry specifically
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14:37:33 <Belugas> claiming is not right, since you know it exists
14:38:31 <Timwi> I don't understand what you mean now, Belugas :)
14:38:32 <Belugas> propecting means doing some research (geologically and else) in order to find a suitable site on which resources can be exploited
14:38:38 <ln-> 7 (malmia ym) (kaivost) schürfen (nach<dat> ~) ~ kultaa nach Gold schürfen 8 (kaiv; mineraaleja, malmia) (kaivost) prospektieren (prospektiert hat)
14:39:34 <Belugas> like wandering on the whole country and testing the ground and the underground in order to find something
14:39:56 <Timwi> OK, I'm beginning to get the impression that it is indeed "prospektieren"
14:40:20 <Belugas> like a gold mine : you do not say "Hey, I'll start a gold mine here". You first test the region to see if there is gold
14:40:31 <Belugas> if it does not have gold, you search somewhere else
14:40:39 <Timwi> Now, there is a patch config option that says:
14:40:41 <Timwi> Manual primary industry construction method:
14:40:48 <Timwi> one of the possible values is "prospecting"
14:41:04 <Timwi> Does that just mean that it will enable the use of prospection?
14:41:04 <Belugas> that is exactly what i'm talking about :)
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14:41:43 <Timwi> Phew, right, I've updated my language file with all the newest strings from SVN now
14:41:46 <ln-> why not ask eddi|zH's opinion too
14:42:16 <Timwi> Eddi|zuHause, are you on the German translation team for OpenTTD?
14:42:38 <Belugas> but he knows german and OTTD quite well ;)
14:42:40 <Timwi> Ah, good :-) How would you translate "to prospect a new industry"?
14:43:00 <Timwi> Belugas: If he *were* a member of the team, I *wouldn't* have asked him, because the team has already mucked up the translation :-p
14:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, the translators do accept suggestions
14:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i have asked to change certain things several times
14:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> something like "Erfolgsaussichten einer neuen Industrie prüfen"
14:45:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i would not follow too closely to the english string
14:45:40 <Belugas> Timwi, you should propose the translation to the translation team, otherwise, i doubt your effort will gain anything, since they are the ones in control
14:46:10 <ln-> there really is a team for german?
14:46:14 <Belugas> and as devs, we do not force things to translators
14:46:19 <Timwi> Belugas: I already have, I haven't received a reply, and also, I don't care if they use it, I'm only doing it for myself
14:46:27 <Belugas> team may be a big word :)
14:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: there are like 3 translators, i don't know how far they work together
14:46:49 <Timwi> Eddi|zuHause: Super Idee - danke
14:46:57 <ln-> because MiHaMiX has done his best to avoid people even knowing who else is translating the same language.
14:47:09 <Timwi> Eddi|zuHause: They don't -- a peruse of the file shows clearly that it's been made by different translators of varying competence
14:48:06 <glx> ln-: a translator for a language knows who are the other translators for this language
14:48:25 <glx> he can even send a mail to these translators
14:48:28 <Timwi> STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_LOAN_TIP :{BLACK}The amount of money this company has taken on loan
14:48:32 <Timwi> STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_LOAN_TIP :{BLACK}Schuldenfalle?
14:48:54 <ln-> glx: seems like something has improved.
14:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Timwi: i would classify that as an easter egg :)
14:49:40 <Tlustoch> What data structure should I use when I need to keep list of pairs of numbers?
14:49:47 <Timwi> But the sad truth is that it was probably not meant as one
14:50:23 <ln-> list of integers bit-shifted.
14:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Timwi: "svn blame" and "svn log" to find out who did that translation, and you can ask them about the intention
14:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> "svn blame" gives you the revision, and "svn log" gives you the translator involved in that revision
14:51:51 <Timwi> Eddi|zuHause: Not interested enough :-p I'll just fix it for myself and send the fix as a suggestion which they may or may not accept
14:53:26 <Belugas> send the fix where? give it to Mihamix, when he'll be around. He's the translation leader of all teams
14:54:03 <Timwi> If that is Miham Kerekes, then I've already contacted him (albeit via email)
14:54:23 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen Neonox.
14:54:30 <_42_> Eddi|zuHause, Neonox (~Neonox@p54ABE5D6.dip.t-dialin.net) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 22 hours 38 minutes ago (17.07. 16:16) stating "Quit: Verlassend" after spending 7 minutes there.
14:55:15 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a translator, for example...
14:55:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i would strongly suggest to talk to him
14:55:32 <Timwi> (auch noch Telekomkunde, murmelmurmel)
14:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> as is like 70% of all people...
14:56:12 <Belugas> yes, Mihamiz is that guy. he has a busy real life, right now. But he does take care of the project
14:56:16 <Timwi> More like 70% of the people who live in Germany
14:56:34 <Belugas> so, if no answer, it may be because german transaltors do not care to answer or modify
14:56:49 <ln-> what is MiHaMiX's real name?
14:57:19 <Belugas> yeah,,, Attila must be added :)
14:57:26 <Timwi> It could be fake, but if it is, then it is clearly made to sound real
14:58:01 <ln-> yeah, what's this Ban Attila thing then?
14:58:48 <Eddi|zuHause> his middle name?
14:59:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10612 /branches/noai/src/ (37 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: allow a class as return value; pack the result in a SQ instance and it should work perfectly
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14:59:52 <ln-> or is it some marriage thing?
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15:04:58 <ln-> does he have many names like Gandalf/Mithrandir?
15:05:10 <Timwi> I only have one name, Timwi :-p
15:06:36 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a translation of some sort
15:08:25 <Timwi> From what to what though?
15:08:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i did not mean the Mithrandir thing, i know that is a translation :)
15:08:34 <Timwi> From Hungarian to Magyarul? :-;
15:08:36 <ln-> someone said that in hungary (also) the first name of the man changes in marriage, or something. does this have something to do with that?
15:08:52 <Timwi> ln-: In Hungary, the first name is the family name
15:09:03 <Timwi> or differently put, the family name comes first, before the personal name
15:09:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10613 /branches/noai/src/ (36 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add r10612: give release-hook for return values of classes for which SQ creates a temporary holder so they are free'd when SQ does
15:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> like the bajorans :p
15:10:19 <Timwi> Star Trek is being unrealistic by having a whole planet follow the same convention and Earth being the only one that has a mix :-p
15:12:03 <ln-> Things like that get standardized when USA takes control of the world before joining the Starfleet.
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15:14:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10614 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r10613: do not commit things you are working on and don't want to commit ;)
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15:24:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10615 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_squirrel.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r10613: one might wonder how hard it can be to fix something this simple...
15:30:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10616 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/squirrel_export.awk: [NoAI] -Fix: only see a method as constructors if they do not have an other function name
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15:59:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10617 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
15:59:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: code style changes (removing an erroneous tab plus switch case alignment)
15:59:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: give enum values to widgets
16:02:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10618 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix(r10167): remove unneeded comment
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17:05:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10619 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
17:05:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Use shorter variable/member names and add some code separation.
17:05:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Use a stringID variable instead of always refering to the _fund_gui.text[foo] member
17:05:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Documentation: Add a few explanatory comments here and there
17:08:10 <Chicago_R_A> only "here and there" Belugas? Not everywhere? :)
17:11:26 <Belugas> comment the whole code!!
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17:12:40 <Progman> if I write a patch which do nothing but add documents for doxygen, are these welcome and how should I write these patches?
17:14:35 <Belugas> Progman, edit the code source, create a diff file (with TortoiseSVN, SVN or else) and present it on FS
17:14:49 <Belugas> but make sure the comment is really helpfull
17:15:02 <Chicago_R_A> Not <Insert Comment Here> ?
17:15:04 <Belugas> and that it describe exactly what it's supposed to do
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17:15:27 <Belugas> do not simply guess the functionnality based on the name of the function/structure or whatever
17:17:29 <Belugas> and yes, such well done work is welcome :)
17:18:46 <Progman> i'm worried about breaking all developing stuff by adding new comments as these will desync with the trunk and other patches cannot applied anymore
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17:27:42 <Belugas> Progman, i think that both devs and patch creators do know how to deal with conflicts :)
17:28:41 <Belugas> i keep on self-inflicting tons of conflicts to my onw repos, so don't worry too much about that ;)
17:29:08 <Noldo> and svn is quite good with merging changes done to different parts of a file
17:37:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10620 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt estonian.txt galician.txt slovak.txt):
17:37:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-18 19:37:17
17:37:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 10 fixed, 13 changed by Hadez (23)
17:37:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 20 changed by kristjans (20)
17:37:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: galician - 34 fixed, 5 changed by Condex (39)
17:37:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovak - 4 fixed by lengyel (4)
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18:13:33 <Timwi> Is it just me, or does the key "D" for dyanamite/demolish no longer work in the newest SVN?
18:14:44 <Progman> you must press "s" before to let the build-bar be opened
18:14:58 <Progman> and the landscape-toolbar must be present too
18:15:29 <Progman> indeed, and it open the rail-toolbar
18:15:32 <Timwi> Anyway, thanks, it's the landscape thingie that I needed
18:15:41 <Progman> and, by a patch setting, it opens the lanscape-toolbar too
18:15:50 <Timwi> Yeah, I guess I had that set before
18:21:01 <Nickman> is it normal there arn't any project files in the NoAI branch?
18:24:19 <Nickman> I was in the wrong map...
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20:02:57 <Tlustoch> how do I get last item from the list (C++ list) ?
20:04:35 <Rubidium> that might bite when the list is empty
20:05:07 <Rubidium> yourlist.back() should work too
20:09:11 <Sacro__> make[1]: warning: Clock skew detected. Your build may be incomplete.
20:09:27 <Rubidium> the danger of running ntp
20:11:26 <Tlustoch> And how do I update item? Or is it better to remove & insert (last item)?
20:11:51 <Rubidium> yourlist.back() = 10; ?
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20:12:01 <Sacro> i only installed it about 30 mins ago
20:12:06 <Sacro> and i haven't got round to doing it yet
20:12:22 <Rubidium> chances are it runs directly after the install
20:13:48 <Rubidium> Sacro: has ArchLinux IIRC
20:19:46 <Sacro> there... my new server has openttd, and openttd-svn on
20:26:08 <Tlustoch> Heh. I have Segmentation fault error after printf command. Now what shall I do?
20:27:44 <Rubidium> not use the pointer you are using after that printf?
20:28:45 <Tlustoch> I have 2 printf command one after another but after the first one the game immediately crashes.
20:28:50 <Tlustoch> It never happened before.
20:29:10 <Rubidium> Tlustoch: you are printing something you should not be printing
20:29:21 <Rubidium> but I can't see what it is as I don't know any of the context
20:29:49 <Tlustoch> I print only integers and constant string
20:30:14 <Rubidium> maybe you've miscounted somewhere and you try to print a int as string
20:30:57 <Tlustoch> That's not possible. There must be some other mistake.
20:31:10 <Tlustoch> What about list? Do you need to initialize it?
20:31:31 <Rubidium> depends on the situation IIRC
20:35:06 <Timwi> Can someone make a change to an item in FlySpray for me?
20:36:42 <Timwi> Also, can someone explain to me how to replace a vehicle? The button doesn't seem to do anything ... is it not implemented yte?
20:37:03 <glx> Timwi: please use better names for your files (at least give them an extension)
20:39:26 <Sacro> grr :( can't get webmin to work
20:40:28 <Timwi> glx: Sorry, what would you like me to call this?
20:40:56 <Timwi> OK. Is there a way to rename the attachment?
20:41:12 <Tlustoch> How do I pass list to function? (list<some struct> mylist)
20:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> <Timwi> Also, can someone explain to me how to replace a vehicle? The button doesn't seem to do anything ... is it not implemented yet? <- you have to set up replacement rules (from the vehicle list window | manage list | autoreplace)
20:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the "upgrade" button in the depot then applies all replacement rules on all vehicles currently in the depot
20:43:47 <Eddi|zuHause> also the replacement rules are automatically applied to any vehicle entering a depot
20:44:20 <Rubidium> Tlustoch: as a pointer (or reference, whatever you like most)
20:44:44 <Tlustoch> Please can you write the code?
20:45:07 <Rubidium> you've got no idea what pointers and/or references are?
20:45:35 <Tlustoch> I know, but I never passed list<something>
20:45:58 <Rubidium> list<something> is just a type, like int
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20:50:09 <Tlustoch> Thanks. Solved with typedef.
20:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> why would that need a typedef?
20:51:25 <Tlustoch> You need same type for variable definition and in function definition, or not?
20:52:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and why would it not suffice both being (e.g.) list<int>?
20:57:01 <Timwi> Is there an easy way to find remaining pieces of non-electrified rail in my map?
20:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately no
20:57:35 <glx> yes electric trains are blocked
20:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> drag&drop the "upgrade" tool over the entire map :p
20:59:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but really, the smallmap should have a colour for each railtype
20:59:18 <Timwi> I did that, and it's still telling me that it can't convert everything because there are trains in the wya
20:59:35 <Timwi> Hm, I get only one color for "rail"
20:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that was a suggestion :)
21:00:13 <glx> <Timwi> I did that, and it's still telling me that it can't convert everything because there are trains in the wya <-- that's why I said "at least 10 times"
21:00:26 <Timwi> I did it about 10 times now :)
21:00:39 <glx> but if your trains are still waiting in stations you need to wait for them to leave
21:01:18 <Timwi> Could it be that it will always say "train is in the way" if everything is actually converted?
21:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a patch somewhere that allowed converting even if trains are in the way
21:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but i think it left out some cases like stations and bridges
21:03:22 <Sacro> Mon Jul 2 05:23:56 BST 2007
21:03:47 <Timwi> I keep finding places where the cargo type is singular when it should be plural ...
21:03:52 <Timwi> Is this due to a recent sweeping change?
21:04:20 <glx> probably caused by r10606
21:04:39 <glx> as it swaped name and name_plural
21:06:50 <Timwi> That means they need to be changed everywhere
21:07:07 <Timwi> Maybe r10606 was wrong? :)
21:07:37 <Timwi> OK, does anyone know the code well enough to quickly fix the "accepts: passenger" message on stations?
21:07:42 <Timwi> Should be "passengers", of course :)
21:08:04 <Timwi> Remind me where I can see the diffs for the changes on the web?
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21:10:30 <glx> r10606 fixes the singular/plural inversion but r8826 used the correct ones, that are now incorrect
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21:15:47 <Timwi> OK, I've fixed the issue
21:18:00 <glx> put all your changes related to this in the same bug report
21:18:48 <Timwi> I don't appear to have any access to change anything on this system
21:18:52 <Timwi> All I can do is create new bugs
21:18:56 <Timwi> Once they're created, I can't edit them
21:19:27 <Timwi> Do you want me to do this now for the three items I filed?
21:25:55 <Timwi> OK, then how do I close the existing item?
21:26:22 <Timwi> Unrelated question: What exactly does the "Transfer Credits:" mean in a helicopter's details window?
21:27:35 <glx> you can't close items but I can :)
21:32:00 <Timwi> Is there a quick way to get a list of all vehicles that are waiting in depots?
21:32:57 <glx> I know the vehicle list (vehicles in depot have blue number)
21:54:16 <Timwi> glx: I tried to add a comment now but it didn't upload the file.
21:55:08 <Timwi> Ah, works now. Maybe I did something wrong.
22:02:44 <Timwi> Thanks. Now commit the patches to svn? :))
22:04:05 <glx> peter1138 must look at it (r8826 and r10606 are his work ;) )
22:07:11 <Progman> if a method got an assert, how can I document it?
22:08:24 <glx> unless the assert is not used to check params
22:08:44 <Progman> and in the description itself?
22:09:16 <glx> check how it's done for other functions
22:10:36 <Progman> do you know a function which is documented, use assert and is documented that there is an assert? ;)
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22:14:04 <Progman> I'm searching for a description that it can happend like "an assertion is thrown" or "an assert is called"
22:14:23 <Rubidium> just look in the *_map.h files for @pre's
22:15:03 <Nickman> anyone familliar with the NoAI branch here?
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22:15:37 <glx> what do you want to know?
22:15:51 <Phazorx> are there known issues with YAPF and trams?
22:16:28 <Rubidium> depends what you think is an issue
22:16:41 <Phazorx> i have a tram that seems to can not get to a stations
22:16:48 <Phazorx> it just circling some block
22:17:07 <Phazorx> which has 4 tram stations, one next to each corner
22:17:15 <Phazorx> trains from 3 get to drop fine
22:17:23 <Phazorx> train from one of them seems to loop
22:17:39 <glx> is it heading to this station?
22:18:01 <Phazorx> i have somewhat mirrored design and same behavior observed in few cases
22:19:23 <JazzyJaffa> Hi, I'm just cleaning up my fast pathfinding for ships. I need to store a region number for every tile, I've managed to get it down to using 12bits in TileExtended, is this considered acceptable? (Support for a tile to be in more than one region is included in the 12bits)
22:20:27 <Nickman> glx I want to make a C++ AI but don'tk now wich files I have to include to get it to work, I read the Wiki, but it doesn't give me enuf information
22:20:56 <Rubidium> have you looked at the C++ stuf AI?
22:21:14 <Nickman> I'll take a look at those
22:21:54 <Nickman> the NoAI.hpp file is all I need I think ;)
22:26:02 <Phazorx> train goes A->B->C->D
22:26:47 <Phazorx> teoretically it can go from C, D or intersection between C and D to S
22:27:33 <Phazorx> trains from stations 331,333 and 334 find their way to S
22:28:41 <Phazorx> they station sign itself is next to top left corner of picture (middle of RR station there)
22:29:01 <Rubidium> and that tream only circles A->B->C->D when it should do A->S ?
22:29:52 <Phazorx> but it goes between C and D and then turns west
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22:30:37 <Rubidium> huh? now I don't get it anymore
22:30:38 <Phazorx> judging by absent rating - it's been a long while since it made it station last time
22:30:58 <Phazorx> Rubidium: it's a loop there
22:31:18 <Phazorx> train goes counterclockwise
22:31:35 <Phazorx> so normal, route can be a-b-c-s-d-b
22:32:02 <Rubidium> not that last b (I hope)
22:32:51 <Phazorx> train from station 331
22:33:06 <Phazorx> so it goes B-A-D-S-C-B
22:33:54 <Phazorx> train from 334 goes smallest route possibvle - D-S, clockwise
22:34:27 <Phazorx> actulay all of them go clockwise aside of one that never get's there
22:35:43 <Phazorx> this is network game r10532
22:35:43 <Rubidium> it's probably better to have the savegame
22:35:50 <Phazorx> you can observe it live if you want
22:36:25 <Rubidium> cloning my checkout, downgrading and recompiling and all
22:38:11 <Phazorx> well i tried it with 10559 a while ago - trains start crashing
22:38:20 <Phazorx> not sure about tram issue tho
22:38:59 <Phazorx> save scrolled to right neighbourhood
22:39:54 <Phazorx> i can provide link to GRFs, whoch are cooper pack 5
22:41:13 <Phazorx> @author for function and @date ?
22:41:14 <DorpsGek> Phazorx: Error: 'for' is not a valid plugin.
22:42:54 <Nickman> my AI is working now, THX! ;)
22:43:33 <Progman> @author in a svn-repos? this will result in checking all revisions of a file ;)
22:43:34 <DorpsGek> Progman: Error: 'in' is not a valid plugin.
22:44:37 <Progman> weird error message, but I'll find it
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22:46:12 <Progman> where do you get this errormessage?
22:47:26 <Phazorx> hit for Progman: it's a bot
22:48:00 <Rubidium> Progman: @author and @date are useless and unnecessary as we've got subversion
22:48:17 <Rubidium> those tags get out of date so fast
22:48:17 <Phazorx> i take my comment back
22:48:40 <Phazorx> Rubidium: can you same thing with the tram on your revision?
22:48:55 <Progman> DorpsGek: where do you get this error message?
22:49:01 <Rubidium> Phazorx: looks like the tram is heading for some place within the "circle"
22:49:25 <Phazorx> Rubidium: there are no "hooks" inside the loop
22:49:26 <Rubidium> most likely because that was where the station once used to be
22:49:40 <Phazorx> and other trains seems to find they way using same tracks
22:49:56 <Rubidium> Phazorx: just skip orders once and it'll run ok
22:50:10 <Rubidium> so it must be something that happened a long long time ago
22:50:41 <Rubidium> and as I said, there "terminal" station was once within (or on) the circle
22:50:43 <Phazorx> like 40 years i turned yapf on
22:50:55 <Rubidium> Phazorx: it has NOTHING to do with YAPF
22:51:28 <Phazorx> well before i did so - all trains were getting there, i had none with negative income
22:51:39 <Rubidium> once it got the order it searched for a station tile it could reach nearby, but before it could be reached that station tile was made unreachable
22:52:05 <Phazorx> i did played with shape of "receptor" tho
22:54:26 <Progman> the doc-patch should be uploaded in FS?
22:56:04 <Phazorx> Rubidium: if you are still tunning it please take a lok at other negatove income trains
22:56:23 <Phazorx> similar issue different part of city
22:56:40 <Phazorx> and skipping so far only worked for 407
22:57:13 <Rubidium> oh, and the GRFs you are using interfere with eachother
22:57:44 <Rubidium> no idea, guess town replacement and newbridges (if you use them)
22:57:55 <Rubidium> dbg: [sprite] Tried to load real sprite #4627 as a non sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
22:58:15 <Phazorx> well lv3 and hiroshimas has issues with some vehicles
22:58:52 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
22:59:46 <Phazorx> thgergo bridges are static as well as other stuff
23:00:13 <Rubidium> Phazorx: they both replace the same sprite (probably from toyland) and use that
23:00:51 <Phazorx> if it is a vehicle related (dunno how to check) most likely it is LV4 and hirotrams
23:01:02 <Rubidium> it is not vehicle related, it is SPRITE related
23:01:04 <Phazorx> that is visible from available road vehicles
23:01:12 <Rubidium> they both use the SAME sprite
23:01:45 <Rubidium> problem is that one GRF reads it as a "normal" sprite, whereas the other reads it as some sort of "magic" sprite
23:02:09 <Phazorx> in that case i dont know... and i'm not sure if i can find out where to look for that issue representing itself somehow
23:02:40 <Phazorx> i stil lcan not get 404 to find terminal
23:02:49 <Rubidium> it (could) make GRFs do weird things
23:02:49 <Phazorx> \kinda correlates with http codes heh
23:03:15 <Phazorx> i'll disable LV4 and turn on debug mode i guess
23:03:55 <Rubidium> skipping 305 worked for me too
23:04:52 <Phazorx> 305 here goes station 327 - 326 - 325
23:05:18 <Phazorx> 407 right in front of it doing same thing
23:05:49 <Phazorx> and 404 is traling 305 buy one side of a block
23:09:11 <Phazorx> nope skipping doesnt help i tried both skip and dbl skip on all 4
23:09:43 <Phazorx> they do go back to origin station if skipped but can not find a way to terminal after that
23:09:58 <Rubidium> and they go right with NPF?
23:11:10 <Phazorx> i got same debug mesage about sprite on client
23:12:25 <Phazorx> patch "yapf.road_use_yapf 0"
23:12:25 <Phazorx> 'yapf.road_use_yapf 0' is an unknown patch setting.
23:12:44 <Phazorx> patch "yapf.road_use_yapf"
23:12:44 <Phazorx> Current value for 'yapf.road_use_yapf' is: 'on' (min: 0, max: 1)
23:16:42 <Phazorx> what am i doing wring here?
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23:17:57 <Rubidium> Current value for 'Rubidium' is: 'off' (min: 8 hours, max: ∞) ;)
23:18:10 <Phazorx> Rubidium: all find their way as soon as turned yapf off :|
23:18:23 <Rubidium> slap KUDr about it ;)
23:18:49 <Rubidium> or praise blathijs...
23:18:50 <Phazorx> is it different kind if problem than 308 was ?
23:19:23 <Phazorx> well we are quite in diff TZs... i'll nag KUDr i guess
23:19:50 <Rubidium> can't be that much ;)
23:20:12 <Phazorx> thing i did not liek about npf - all trains stockpile at some station rather than load balance
23:20:21 <Phazorx> Rubidium: it's 19:23 here
23:20:37 <Rubidium> so, that's eastern US/Canada
23:20:54 <Phazorx> i shall bu Belugas then :)
23:20:59 <Rubidium> not as much as TheJosh
23:21:14 <Rubidium> who has 9.5 hours differnce with me
23:21:33 <Rubidium> and that amount of hours with you
23:22:17 <Belugas> anyway, as i mentionned more than once, until newindustries are done...
23:22:17 <Rubidium> bugging Belugas about YAPF
23:22:44 <Belugas> the hell if i can do anything with/for YAPF!
23:22:59 <Belugas> it is really well done, but it is a big chunk to learn
23:23:07 <Phazorx> heh at least you would know who to ask
23:23:08 <Rubidium> ... something you can't describe with LOL and ROFL ;) ...
23:23:34 <Rubidium> not that Belugas can't fix bugs in it, but it requires quite some time
23:23:56 <Phazorx> i understand that familiarity with the code makes it way much easier to spot things
23:24:07 <Phazorx> as well as way much harder to spot very well hidden things
23:24:35 <Phazorx> NPF also pegs my CPU :(
23:26:25 <Phazorx> and i shall bug peter about bridges/tunnels issue :)
23:26:39 <Phazorx> that one get's quite annoying
23:28:15 <Belugas> thanks for your confidence in my capabilities, Rubidium :) really!
23:29:47 <Phazorx> btw... who is behind math on how's length/speed/traveldistance works?
23:30:08 <Phazorx> i have some quiestioned about diagonal vs straight tracks
23:30:19 <Phazorx> cuz it does look weird in some cases
23:41:53 <Belugas> don't know who would be the right person to ask, Phazorx
23:42:18 <Belugas> i doubt the one who wrote that is still among active devs
23:42:31 <Phazorx> perhaps it is inherited from Chriss as is ?
23:43:43 <Phazorx> what i have issues with - it takes different time faor a train to travel as long as it is depending if it goes straight or diagonal
23:43:59 <Phazorx> which is very meesed up IMO
23:44:18 <Phazorx> especially seeng that it travels in both cases with same speed
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23:47:11 <Belugas> i have no clue whatsoever
23:47:49 <Belugas> maybe because there is more tiles crossed in diago then straight?
23:48:18 <Phazorx> well at the end - both trains traveled exactly same length as seen by length of trains
23:48:43 <Phazorx> but it looks like a pair of diagonals is iso'ed sqrt(2)
23:49:07 <Phazorx> so depending if it is length or distance - tile have different size
23:49:18 <Phazorx> or train has variable length
23:49:59 <Phazorx> which is more likely - and hence reason for slowdown when tracks change to diagonal from straight on packed line
23:50:19 <Phazorx> either way it is not right
continue to next day ⏵
