IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-07-17
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00:01:56 <Phazorx> is crash in tunnel resolved?
00:03:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10602 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (19 files in 5 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r10593:10601.
00:04:20 <Rubidium> yup, but I've got no idea how to solve it and the person who has is very busy
00:04:36 <Phazorx> what's the root of the issue?
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06:56:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10603 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp roadveh_gui.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: avoid direct access to _engine_info
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08:19:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10604 /trunk/src/table/build_industry.h: -Fix [FS#1044] (r9866): some industries produced cargo they should not be producing, which would result in the industry offering invalid cargo to a station resulting in crashes..
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10:21:38 <Nickman> For some reason the newer nightlies (r10559 for example) runs very slow on my computer...
10:21:41 <Nickman> even the starting screen
10:22:09 <Nickman> but the NoAi branch (r10582) is running very smooth
10:22:13 <Nickman> what could be causing this?
10:24:38 <Eddi|zuHause> made an unoptimised/debug build?
10:27:31 <Nickman> downloaded the nightlies from the site so...
10:28:07 <Rubidium> what nightly exactly? (OS)
10:28:31 <Nickman> used to work fine before so...
10:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> what if you compile yourself?
10:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> (e.g. with buildottd)
10:31:01 <Rubidium> maybe his nightly uses (for some reason unknown to me) SDL instead of GDI
10:31:18 <Nickman> what you mean Rubidium?
10:31:36 <Nickman> I'll compile my own version from trunk, lets see
10:31:50 <Rubidium> if you start the nightly with openttd -v gdi (or -v win32) don't know exactly, does it perform better?
10:32:39 <Nickman> omg, I found it :D, stupid me
10:32:50 <Nickman> I had the 32 bit blitter activated in my shortcut
10:32:55 <Nickman> I forgot all about that :D
10:33:11 <Nickman> it makes the game run pretty slow while it doesn't need to do anything :p
10:33:25 <Nickman> thanks anyway for the help guys!
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14:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the new monitor is great :)
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14:07:05 <Adriaan> i dont know if this is a known way
14:07:24 <Adriaan> but if you want to bypass the city reglements
14:07:31 <Adriaan> aka you cannot build in that city
14:07:44 <Adriaan> i just plant extremely much trees around the city
14:07:51 <Adriaan> and then build the station/whatever in these trees
14:07:59 <Adriaan> the city doesnt complain then
14:08:25 <Adriaan> someone experienced the same?
14:08:29 <Belugas> it is indeed a known way :)
14:09:05 <Belugas> congratulations of finding it on your own :)
14:09:35 <Adriaan> are there other suck hacks?
14:11:08 <Digitalfox_Desktop> The unrealistic way, is that if destroy every tree in a town and build the same number you get more good reputation, but it's also true in real life that a company that invests in nature also gets good reputation in local or national authorities :)
14:11:13 <Belugas> not really a hack, by the way. Just a means to appeal the city
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14:30:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a suggestion regarding that, if rating is too low, disallow removing trees!
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14:31:40 <Eddi|zuHause> (i.e. if you want to remove a tree, you have to plant one elsewhere
14:32:07 <alex_> im not going to build fucking tress everywhr
14:32:22 <alex_> not open-build-a-garden
14:32:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it removes the cheat that you can cut trees at the lowest rating, which is "for free"
14:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and then build new trees geting more reputation than you ever had before
14:33:21 <DeGhosty> that's poor man's trick
14:33:26 <DeGhosty> what's wrong with thaT?
14:33:43 <DeGhosty> you don't have to do it if you don' want :)
14:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a cheat that totally undermines the whole reputation system
14:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> make a real cheat "ignore town ratings", and balance the system
14:34:41 <JazzyJaffa> Hi, Is there any easy was to find out if an MP_STATION tile is the water end of a dock?
14:35:33 <Eddi|zuHause> JazzyJaffa: richk is messing around with stations currently
14:36:14 <JazzyJaffa> I know there are plans afoot to make docks have queues etc
14:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but that's probably a 0.7+ feature...
14:37:01 <JazzyJaffa> I just need to know if a station tile is a dock
14:37:24 <JazzyJaffa> I'll prob have to do it the hard way
14:37:55 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no map accessor for that?
14:38:40 <JazzyJaffa> Doesn't look like it, I might be missing something though
14:39:38 <Tlustoch> I have a question :-)
14:40:17 <Tlustoch> When I have 2 trains in station waiting for example for coal, why isn't first one loaded and then the second one? Why does it load both at once??
14:43:42 <Hendikins> Because you're not using the improved loading algorithm?
14:44:05 <DeGhosty> if you have more then ur train capacity
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14:46:23 <Tlustoch> Oh I see the option now.
14:47:43 <Tlustoch> And what about passengers (where I do not use "load")?
14:58:24 <Tlustoch> How do I compile game without squirrel?
14:59:36 <Belugas> you can use trunk for that :)
15:00:12 <Tlustoch> But I need version with AI API
15:01:38 <glx> why don't you want squirrel?
15:02:58 <Tlustoch> But why should I compile squirrel again and again when I will not need it?
15:03:21 <glx> it's compiled only once if no files are changed in it
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15:18:07 <JazzyJaffa> Looks like global pathfinding for ships is working!
15:18:23 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Sacro: What the hell is that KB??
15:18:47 <Sacro> Digitalfox_Desktop: not entirely sure...
15:19:27 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I've seen some strange things at microsoft, but that is one of the fews that makes say WHAT...
15:21:14 <JazzyJaffa> knowledge base I think
15:22:20 <Digitalfox_Notebook> JazzyJaffa: We know that, the point is in what the KB has...
15:23:34 <Digitalfox_Notebook> I receive from six on six months 13 CD's from KB of microsoft, send by them.. Gonna check to see if that KB is there..
15:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> "ACHTUNG: Der folgende Knowledge Base Artikel wurde durch ein maschinelles Übersetzungssystem ohne jegliche menschliche Mitwirkung übersetzt." <- lmao :p
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15:29:38 <Digitalfox_Notebook> Eddi|zuHause: But in English there were no "translated by a machine translation system without any human co-operation." I've read it in English in My desktop and in Portuguese in my notebook ( it differs the language based on your regional location configuration)
15:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i know, but the thing is why they do that at all :p
15:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> machine translations are more often than not worse to understand than the original
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15:31:55 <Digitalfox_Notebook> Oh shit 4:31 PM and haven't had lunch yet.. -bye..
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15:47:11 <Tlustoch> Where do I find data type defition? For example TileIndex?
15:56:21 <Timwi> Any hardcore developers around? :))
15:56:43 <JazzyJaffa> Tlustoch: grep is where you fin most things
15:56:46 <Timwi> Suppose I wanted to translate OpenTTD into a new language, but it doesn't display a particular character. How hard would it be for me to add that character to the game?
15:58:39 <Timwi> Where is the font stored?
15:59:11 <Timwi> No, I mean the actual font :)
15:59:21 <glx> default "font" is sprites in original TTD files
15:59:23 <Timwi> Suppose I actually want to augment OpenTTD's own font with that one missing character
15:59:41 <Timwi> Has anyone ever tried to make a lookalike font then? :)
15:59:47 <glx> and now we don't add any sprites as you can use fonts
16:00:25 <peter1138> i've got a look-a-like of the small font
16:00:45 <peter1138> no reason why it couldn't be done for the larger fonts too
16:04:18 <Timwi> Unable to use 'Zwonk' for large font, FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead
16:04:25 <Timwi> Does that mean it doesn't support TTF?
16:05:22 <izhirahider> is it a known issue trains crossing one on top of the other one (one on a bridge, the other on the ground), the top one doing some flickering?
16:05:53 <Rubidium> Timwi: is that font registered with windows?
16:06:27 <Timwi> I fixed it :) The complete name of the font is "Zwonk Standard", not just "Zwonk"... which is weird, because I called it Zwonk :-)))
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16:08:04 <izhirahider> Rubidium, ok, thanks
16:08:21 <Timwi> Does it not support any anti-aliasing?
16:08:36 <Rubidium> with the 8bpp blitter it doesn't
16:10:10 <Timwi> Hm, OK... can I tell it to use the font in boldface?
16:10:35 <Timwi> There is no explicit Bold version of Zwonk...
16:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause> have you actually tried it?
16:12:08 <Timwi> It works with "Verdana Fett" (where Fett is Bold in German), but not "Zwonk Fett" -- and indeed Verdana Fett is listed in C:\winnt\fonts, but Zwonk Fett is not
16:12:38 <Timwi> Which is because Verdana Fett is actually a separate font file, but Zwonk is bolded "artificially" by Windows
16:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, then i don't know any further
16:13:09 <Timwi> I guess I'll just have to make Zwonk Bold. :-))
16:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a zwonk anyway?
16:13:45 <Timwi> It looks as crazy as it sounds
16:13:48 <Belugas> it's a wonk with depth :D
16:15:20 <Timwi> OK, it looks like Verdana works OK for the medium and large font, but the small_font would definitely need some anti-aliasing :/
16:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of silly characters do you want to display anyway?
16:16:58 <Timwi> I introduced a friend of mine to OpenTTD and now he's considering translating it into his own conlang.
16:17:19 <peter1138> you need to separate bold with a comma
16:17:34 <Timwi> peter1138: aaah! Thanks, I'll try that
16:17:43 <Timwi> So you mean I should put "Zwonk Standard, bold"?
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16:18:48 <Timwi> Hm, nope, that doesn't work either
16:19:11 <Rubidium> then freetype doesn't know how to make it bold
16:19:18 <Timwi> But anyway -- to use Zwonk was just a crazy idea ... it works fine with Verdana. I'm only struggling with the small_font now, because it is too small for ANY font to be suitable :/
16:19:46 <Rubidium> you could increase the font size slightly
16:20:51 <Timwi> Hm, nope, doesn't look nice. I get the impression, to be honest, that FreeType is not very good... the rendering is rather poor
16:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> or use the small font of peter1138's, and extend it with some special characters (or specify them in the character translation table to be replaced with standard characters)
16:21:24 <Rubidium> the problem is you can't do antialiasing in a 8 bit paletted environment
16:21:38 <Timwi> Yes, I understand, but it seems that FreeType can't do hinting either
16:21:56 <Timwi> The K (capital) looks like an X...
16:22:01 <Rubidium> Timwi: how would hinting work?
16:22:17 <KUDr_wrk> skidd13: KUDr will be around 19:00 CET
16:23:20 <Timwi> To be honest I'm tempted to just augment the raster font that comes with the game ... would that be difficult?
16:23:30 <Timwi> Would I need to recompile the game for that?
16:23:32 <Rubidium> as you can see in that image they use aliasing
16:23:57 <Timwi> Rubidium: The *entire* image uses aliasing. But only one of the two rows uses hinting
16:24:35 <Rubidium> I see it makes the font "fatter"
16:24:58 <Timwi> Rubidium: It makes the font less fat actually, it's the bottom one that uses hinting
16:25:31 <Timwi> What it does is it aligns the "lines" that each letter is made up of, onto pixel boundaries. That prevents this grey blurring
16:26:09 <Rubidium> but the characters are already pixel aligned when we draw them
16:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so if freetype can do that it's all a matter of providing the correct parameter, isn't it?
16:26:27 <peter1138> that's why i made a bdf of the small font
16:27:09 <Timwi> Rubidium: It's a bit difficult to explain what hinting really means. :/
16:27:31 <Timwi> Eddi: Well my theory is that FreeType can't do it, but I may be wrong
16:27:43 <Timwi> peter1138: Is bdf bitmap-based?
16:27:56 <Rubidium> Timwi: there are some legal issues with the hinting code in freetype IIRC
16:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Timwi: the wikipedia article said freetype can do it
16:28:26 <Timwi> I know that there are some patents (with IBM or something), but I live in Europe and the patents do not apply here :-p
16:28:52 <Timwi> peter1138: OK, where can I get the font, and how can I edit it so that I can add new characters? :)
16:28:55 <Rubidium> so you've compiled libfreetype yourself?
16:29:14 <Timwi> Whoa, a text format o.O
16:29:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that does not sound like a windows program :p
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16:30:19 <Timwi> It's OK, I'll try to find an editor myself
16:30:43 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I just build a bank using last nightly, and tried to use the production values change cheat, but it doesn't work on banks... :(
16:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of that wtf contest, where one guy sent in a program that took the shape definitions from a file in plain english... "a Zero is a Circle" etc.
16:31:25 <Digitalfox_Desktop> By design or bug?
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16:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it's an undocumented feature, Digitalfox_Desktop... :)
16:33:47 <Timwi> peter1138: Thanks, the font seems to work
16:33:52 <Timwi> However, it has a slight problem :))
16:34:12 <Timwi> The right margin on all the umlauts ( ) are one pixel too large
16:34:15 <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause: that was nice :)
16:34:51 <peter1138> btw, any bitmap font supported by freetype will work
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16:34:58 <peter1138> i used bdf because i had a bdf editor, heh
16:34:59 <Tlustoch> How do I build rails with AI API??
16:35:01 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Eddi|zuHause: "undocumented feature" what does that mean?? :)
16:35:13 <peter1138> it's a feature that is not documented
16:35:44 <Rubidium> Tlustoch: you don't as that part of the API isn't implemented (yet)
16:36:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it means there is a functional divergence between the technical and the natural description of the behaviour
16:38:28 <Tlustoch> When it will be implemented??
16:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain is scared of rails :)
16:39:33 <peter1138> 1337 list admin request(s) waiting
16:40:20 <Rubidium> Tlustoch: when all the stuff is ready to make a proper road AI/aircraft AI
16:41:53 <Tlustoch> That's waste of time. You will need better pathfinder for trains, so if you will make just a good one for cars it will be useless.
16:43:09 <Rubidium> building a good rail network is way way more complicated and needs much much more API, so the decision has been made to first implement/test everything with road vehicles and then extend it to the other vehicles types
16:44:26 <Rubidium> at the moment it is even impossible to make a proper pathfinder as it has no knowledge of the map (heights, slopes etc)
16:44:36 <Rubidium> nor can it build bridges/tunnels
16:45:05 <Tlustoch> I think that making reasonable pathfinder is easy :-)
16:45:34 <Rubidium> it's about making a pathfinder for roads
16:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the best idea would be to implement hooks into YAPF
16:45:47 <Wolf01> we need a pathfinder for ships!
16:46:11 <Rubidium> Wolf01: there already are three
16:46:30 <Eddi|zuHause> no, we need to optimise the current ship pathfinder a little more
16:46:35 <KUDr_wrk> and fourth is in development
16:46:52 <Wolf01> or at least a system to give orders without buoys, which should be located automatically
16:47:09 <KUDr_wrk> Wolf01 look at the forums
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16:47:30 <KUDr_wrk> JazzyJaffa is working on it
16:48:06 <KUDr_wrk> skidd13: bit later than 19:00...
16:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you have 12 minutes :p
16:49:22 <skidd13> maybe later ... want to cycle a bit, weather is nice outside
16:51:09 <skidd13> will PM you the stuff then. CYA
16:59:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10605 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Fix [FS#1046]: also OpenBSD does not know wchar. Patch by Matthias.
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17:07:42 <hylje> heh, someone is using one's OTTD folder for porn
17:10:21 <Tlustoch> I just made AI that builds random straight road in the middle of the map :-)
17:10:28 <Tlustoch> It's not that difficult.
17:10:47 <Tlustoch> I just have to get into it because I didn't write code for some time.
17:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hmmm... ice cream with blackberries, delicious :)
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17:15:07 <Eddi|zuHause> damn, hylje figured me out :p
17:21:27 <Tlustoch> What about stupid pathfinder? Does it do something?
17:22:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there is documentation about what it does
17:23:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: so am I
17:23:20 <hylje> so we have a Stupid Pathfinder too?
17:23:39 <Rubidium> hylje: NoAI API (for building roads)
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18:25:36 <sartsj> if i control+c the dedicated server to kill it, does it write the config it WAS running back to the openttd.cfg?
18:27:06 <sartsj> well if i edit the cfg file, and then kill it to start it again, it reverts back to the config it was running
18:27:09 <sartsj> at least it seems like that
18:27:46 <sartsj> i've had this problem before
18:28:26 <Rubidium> then it apparantly saves on CTRL-c
18:30:32 <Rubidium> I don't know every and all of the lines of code of OTTD
18:30:40 <Rubidium> and I think nobody actually does
18:30:49 <peter1138> we could know, by looking it up, if it became important :)
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18:31:49 <Rubidium> but I suspect it behaves in the same way as the GUI of OTTD does, i.e. handling the CTRL-c gracefully
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19:14:29 <Ailure> Start date: 2050-01-01
19:14:29 <Ailure> Current date: 1981-08-20
19:14:44 <Ailure> I saw this in the last game I hosted too
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19:22:00 <Thunder> uhm hi, i just found openttd and i wanted to host a dedicated server on my root. i looked up the wiki tutorial but the commandline with the -d didnt work out for me.. anyone may tell me if i missed something?
19:23:50 <Rubidium> -D is for the dedicated server
19:24:07 <Thunder> missed the case sens :D
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19:53:11 <Timwi> OK, I have a problem with translating the game, any developers present who know how the {STRING}s are substituted?
19:54:29 <glx> they are replaced by another string
19:54:37 <Timwi> yes, in my case the wrong string
19:55:04 <Timwi> We have the following two strings:
19:55:04 <Timwi> STR_000F_PASSENGERS :Passengers
19:55:07 <Timwi> STR_002F_PASSENGER :Passenger
19:55:26 <Timwi> The string I'm trying to translate is STR_202E_OFFER_OF_SUBSIDY_EXPIRED
19:55:26 <Timwi> STR_202E_OFFER_OF_SUBSIDY_EXPIRED :{BLACK}{BIGFONT}Offer of subsidy expired:{}{}{STRING} from {STRING2} to {STRING2} will now not attract a subsidy.
19:55:51 <Timwi> The problem is that the first {STRING} is always replaced with STR_000F_PASSENGERS, but I need STR_002F_PASSENGER in this case.
19:56:38 <Timwi> All the other subsidy-related strings use the right string
19:57:02 <peter1138> Passengers from Foo to Bar will now not attract a subsidy
19:57:08 <peter1138> Passenger from Foo to Bar will now not attract a subsidy
19:57:13 <peter1138> the latter makes no sense ;p
19:57:14 <Timwi> Yes, I need it to say "passenger service"
19:57:21 <Timwi> Like all the other ones
19:58:28 <Timwi> I noticed that in the others it is possible to substitute the "wrong" one by using {STRING2} instead of {STRING} or {STRING} instead of {STATION} etc. It's quite confusing, there seems to be no consistency
19:59:21 <peter1138> there is a method to its madness
19:59:30 <Timwi> Well if someone could explain it that would be nice :)
19:59:36 <Timwi> Or at least tell me how I can use "passenger" in this sentence
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20:00:03 <Timwi> Why did the developers make it possible to use the wrong string in the others, but not in this one?
20:00:20 <Timwi> And what do I need to change in the source to make it possible :))
20:01:56 <Timwi> I notice the following lines:
20:01:56 <Timwi> AddNewsItem(STR_202E_OFFER_OF_SUBSIDY_EXPIRED, NEWS_FLAGS(NM_NORMAL, NF_TILE, NT_SUBSIDIES, 0), pair.a, pair.b);
20:01:59 <Timwi> AddNewsItem(STR_202F_SUBSIDY_WITHDRAWN_SERVICE, NEWS_FLAGS(NM_NORMAL, NF_TILE, NT_SUBSIDIES, 0), pair.a, pair.b);
20:02:07 <Timwi> The parameters are all the same!!!
20:02:18 <Timwi> What tells it to use the other string? :/
20:02:31 <peter1138> the SetDParams before that
20:04:30 <Timwi> You mean pair = SetupSubsidyDecodeParam(s, 1);
20:04:38 <Timwi> It has the same parameters on both calls as well
20:05:51 <Timwi> But this has nothing to do with singular or plural...
20:05:56 <Timwi> Welll... it does... but ...
20:06:10 <peter1138> what language are you doing?
20:07:50 <Timwi> I want to understand this independently of the language though
20:08:06 <peter1138> heh, german is 100% complete, apparently
20:08:10 <Timwi> I want to understand why it uses the correct string in STR_202F_SUBSIDY_WITHDRAWN_SERVICE but not in STR_202E_OFFER_OF_SUBSIDY_EXPIRED despite the fact that they seem to use the same parameters in the code
20:08:44 <Timwi> peter1138, you're not being very helpful I'm afraid :/ ... the German translation is atrocious, it maybe 100% complete, but it's 50% good translation and 50% bad
20:09:09 <Timwi> The subsidy news item is grammatically wrong
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20:10:20 *** peter1138 sets mode: +b *!*Desolator@82.79.212.*
20:10:20 *** Desolator was kicked by peter1138 (Try again, don't fucking "bump" or "dig")
20:10:27 *** peter1138 sets mode: -b *!*Desolator@82.79.212.*
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20:10:36 <Timwi> OK, I'm not sure what that was for
20:11:08 <Timwi> peter1138: Can I e-mail my question to a developer who knows the answer?
20:12:52 <blathijs> Isn't this what ludde coded when he dropped by last year?
20:13:12 <Desolator> peter, I got a bug with the finace info
20:13:24 <Timwi> Gosh peter1138, you're trying really hard to piss me off eh? Sorry for trying to help with the development and improvement, you know
20:13:42 <peter1138> Timwi: well, i can stop looking in the code if you want
20:13:58 <Timwi> I didn't know you're looking at the code at the moment, sorry.
20:14:10 <Timwi> But I would welcome it if you could stop giving snide remarks :-).
20:14:21 <Desolator> erm, the palce where you see hoqw much money you're earning, spending, etc...i forgot how it's called
20:16:26 * peter1138 wonders what is actually shown
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20:16:39 <peter1138> regarding subsidies :p
20:16:51 <peter1138> Desolator: that usually means the date has been changed somewhere
20:17:03 <Desolator> O.o? in the scenario editor
20:17:26 <Ailure> if you are before the company founding date
20:17:29 <Ailure> the finacnes windwo is messed up
20:17:40 <Ailure> check the founding date of the company
20:17:50 <Ailure> I had a similar thing happening to me when the game started in 1920
20:18:03 <Desolator> well AFAIK it didn't affect if you edited a scenario to put it in 1920
20:18:06 <Ailure> but due to messing around in the scenario editor before, it thought the first company started 1950
20:18:13 <peter1138> Services already subsidised:
20:18:23 <peter1138> Passenger from Mintingford to Nonningville
20:18:35 <peter1138> hmm, but that's not the news message
20:18:54 <Desolator> I guess it's a bug in the scenario editor
20:19:16 <Desolator> should change the funding date if you change the date
20:19:20 <Ailure> I was going to report it for a long time ago, but then forgot about it as I got busy with studies again
20:19:26 <Ailure> and it's something I only stumbled over once too
20:19:30 <Ailure> even if reprodcuable easily
20:20:06 <Desolator> make an empty scenario, save it, load it, change date back, paly it, kaboom
20:20:19 <peter1138> Timwi: yup, there is some serious magic going on here
20:20:26 <peter1138> the subsidies messages are also screwed up
20:23:36 <peter1138> stupid big compiles :(
20:24:11 <ProfFrink> peter1138: Take the dyslexic robocop approach.
20:24:25 <ProfFrink> "Drop your weapon. You have ten seconds to compile."
20:24:36 <peter1138> if only it was 10 seconds
20:25:06 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
20:25:35 <Prof_Frink> Hmm, keepnick fail.
20:25:56 <Prof_Frink> anyway, after ten seconds, success or not, you shoot your computer
20:26:46 <peter1138> i think the capacitors will explode before too long
20:27:09 <peter1138> waiting for this compile
20:27:14 <Timwi> I just tested my theory empirically and I discovered that I was wrong -- the "WITHDRAWN" message is also wrong :)
20:27:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
20:27:33 <Timwi> Which is doubly weird because that one has "service" in the English string. I guess I'll try the test in English
20:27:54 <peter1138> my suspicion is that plural/singular are mixed
20:28:10 <Timwi> Indeed it says "passengers service" :-))
20:28:32 <peter1138> i'm assuming you're using a nightly/svn here
20:29:52 <Bjarni> we have an issue with singular/plural and translations.... like is aircraft singular or plural?
20:30:38 <Bjarni> well, are you sure all the translators are sure of this while translating some string where aircraft appears in?
20:31:06 <Bjarni> I don't think it's a huge issue. Luckily the translators tend to investigate whenever they end up in situations like this
20:32:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10606 /trunk/src/ (cargotype.h newgrf.cpp): -Fix (r8826): plural and single cargo names were mixed up.
20:33:13 <peter1138> Bjarni: i would imagine a translator would know what plural form to use in their own language...
20:36:00 <Timwi> peter1138: I am afraid I am looking at RC2 myself...
20:39:21 <Timwi> peter1138: Do you know what type "StringID" is? Is it an integer?
20:39:57 <peter1138> unsigned 16 bit integer, to get picky
20:40:21 <Timwi> I'm looking at DrawNewsString() now
20:40:27 <Timwi> Clearly ni->string_id is an integer then
20:40:41 <Timwi> So after str = ni->string_id;, str is just the string ID, it doesn't have any parameters in it
20:40:45 <Timwi> Then it calls: GetString(buffer, str, lastof(buffer));
20:41:06 <Timwi> I'm completely mystified where the substitution happens :)
20:42:23 <Timwi> How is the result of that passed to GetString()?
20:42:47 <peter1138> *cough* globals *cough*
20:43:29 <Bjarni> <peter1138> Bjarni: i would imagine a translator would know what plural form to use in their own language... <-- that's not what I meant. It was more like reading if it is one or more in the English string when deciding if singular or plural should be used in the translated string
20:44:38 <Timwi> The problem is not that I don't know what to use, the problem is that the GAME doesn't know what to use :))) It is using the wrong one and I can't fix that
20:44:54 <peter1138> possibly it's the wrong way around in 0.5.2 as well
20:45:20 <peter1138> if it is then i can use that as my excuse for it being wrong in trunk ;)
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20:46:19 <Bjarni> Timwi: right. Good point
20:46:32 * Bjarni stops trying to multitask
20:46:51 <Bjarni> I should really read everything said in here before saying anything :s
20:47:31 <peter1138> DEPs were so slow :p
20:50:14 <Timwi> OK, peter1138, after investigating a lot of the source code I now believe that the fix requires changing
20:50:14 <Timwi> pair = SetupSubsidyDecodeParam(s, 1);
20:50:16 <Timwi> pair = SetupSubsidyDecodeParam(s, 0);
20:50:19 <sartsj> is there a way to clean a company from a server?
20:50:25 <Timwi> in both line 1025 and line 1032 in economy.c
20:50:50 <Timwi> And then the English string STR_202E_OFFER_OF_SUBSIDY_EXPIRED needs to be changed to include the word "service" after "{STRING}"
20:54:27 <MUcht> we need to increase the max_players :-(
20:54:41 <MUcht> once again, like almost every evening the past month :-/
20:55:04 <peter1138> why? you only use 1 player
20:55:34 <Phazorx> well we have mroe than 10 ppl each using one player...
20:55:44 <Phazorx> at least wanting to do so...
20:56:19 <glx> then it's not max_player but max_client :)
20:56:25 <MUcht> 2 people more want to join in :-/
20:56:35 <Phazorx> ughm... sorry max clients then
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21:27:23 <Timwi> peter1138, did you get my last suggestions regarding the suggested source code change?
21:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Timwi: have you at all looked at the last commit?
21:29:33 <Timwi> Eddi|zuHause: I was out of this channel for a while as you may have noticed
21:29:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it was an hour ago :p
21:30:03 <Rubidium> Timwi: might be, but you were in the channel when it happened
21:30:15 <Timwi> OK then I'll check my channel logs
21:31:01 <Timwi> Crap, timestamps missing :/
21:31:32 <Timwi> <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10592 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
21:31:43 <_42_> Commit by peter1138 :: r10606 /trunk/src/ (cargotype.h newgrf.cpp) (2007-07-17 20:32:27 UTC)
21:31:45 <_42_> -Fix (r8826): plural and single cargo names were mixed up.
21:32:04 <Timwi> How can I get a diff of that change?
21:32:11 <Timwi> Without having svn installed :-p
21:32:30 <Eddi|zuHause> git.openttd.org maybe?
21:34:16 <Timwi> OK, I've seen it now. He has changed something very different from what I was referring to
21:34:29 <Timwi> Therefore I assume the answer is 'no', he either hasn't seen my suggestion or decided not to commit it
21:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it was long before your "suggestion"
21:35:19 <Timwi> Yes, and it doesn't address my problem
21:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and it just shows the issue was deeper than that
21:35:22 <Timwi> Hence my suggestion still stands
21:35:30 <Rubidium> Timwi: how do you know it doesn't address your problem?
21:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried it?
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21:36:49 <Rubidium> as these little changes swap the singular and plural names (if you don't load them as newgrf, which you most likely aren't)
21:38:38 <Timwi> I'll try the nightly tomorrow and see
21:39:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just 3 lines, you can change them in your working copy easily
21:40:32 <Eddi|zuHause> while only the line in cargotype.h will most likely suffice
21:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the other part might be newcargo related, and thus not be included in 0.5
21:40:56 <Timwi> I can change them in the source, but I can't recompile :
21:41:05 <Timwi> At least not without downloading and installing Visual Studio first
21:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use buildottd
21:41:46 <peter1138> 0.5 doesn't have cargotype.h
21:42:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, but it has the struct, or not?
21:42:36 <Timwi> Should I use 1.0-RC1 or 0.4.0 of BuildOTTD?
21:43:16 <Digitalfox_Desktop> It's the last version
21:45:02 <Ailure> do recession really need to be under economy changes?
21:45:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it is, if all transformation functions are monotonous
21:46:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Ailure: under what else?
21:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't there supposed to be a differentiation between "unimportant" and "important" economical changes?
21:49:00 <Ailure> well I generally seen it more of a disaster than anything <<
21:49:16 <Ailure> and economy changes is the most annoying news category on huge maps
21:50:35 <Timwi> Hm, I don't understand how BuildOTTD works :(
21:50:57 <Timwi> I click "Update and Compile", then it says "revision 10606 checked out", and then it doesn't do anything else
21:51:23 <Timwi> Ah, LOL, now it does something :)
21:51:30 <Timwi> OK, it needs a bit more indication that it is doing something
21:52:02 <Eddi|zuHause> there's probably a thread in the forum where you can post suggestions
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21:54:26 <Timwi> OK, I've tried it, the bug is still there
21:54:31 <Timwi> As I said, the revision wasn't addressing my problem
21:57:19 <Timwi> OK, now how do I compile my modifications *without* updating to r10606?
22:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone ever figured out what this means? /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/src/misc/blob.hpp:376: warning: assuming signed overflow does not occur when assuming that (X - c) >= X is always true
22:01:07 <peter1138> i means your compiler is buggy
22:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> has this actually been fixed somewhere?
22:02:34 <Timwi> Eddi|zuHause, how can I compile OpenTTD using BuildOTTD without updating from SVN, i.e. without reverting my changes to the source files?
22:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea how buildottd works, but it probably installes mingw/gcc, so if you put the directory with the binaries in path, you can type "make" on the command line
22:04:01 <Timwi> I thought of that, but "make" is not included it seems
22:04:28 <Timwi> OK, it *is* included, I didn't search for it properly :p
22:04:39 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that
22:05:25 <Timwi> C:\BuildOTTD\msys\home\ottdsrc\trunk>make
22:05:26 <Timwi> MAKE Version 5.2 Copyright (c) 1987, 1998 Inprise Corp.
22:05:26 <Timwi> Error makefile 5: Command syntax error
22:05:29 <Timwi> Same for loads of other lines ...
22:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Timwi: ./configure first
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22:06:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Timwi: btw, the bug is fixed for me...
22:06:55 <Timwi> C:\BuildOTTD\msys\home\ottdsrc\trunk>sh ./configure
22:06:55 <Timwi> Error: Invalid option -E
22:06:55 <Timwi> configure: error: invalid option --endian=AUTO
22:06:55 <Timwi> Available options are: --endian=[AUTO|LE|BE]
22:07:09 <Timwi> Eddi|zuHause: How did you check that?
22:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause> let a game run until a subsidy shows up?
22:07:59 <Timwi> Well, the problem occurs when a subsidy _expires_
22:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Timwi: tried "bash ./configure"?
22:08:55 <Timwi> C:\BuildOTTD\msys\home\ottdsrc\trunk>dir C:\BuildOTTD\msys\bin\*sh*
22:09:11 <Timwi> And so does dir C:\BuildOTTD\*sh*.exe /s
22:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> probably wrong grep
22:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> place the directory in the beginning of PATH
22:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause> so you don't get accidently overriden by windows programs
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22:11:24 <Timwi> OK, thanks, that worked
22:11:39 <Timwi> It's complaining that it can't find 'svn' or 'subversion', but it continues nonetheless so I hope it's OK
22:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's just for the revision number
22:12:02 <glx> you'll get a norev0000 version
22:12:34 <Eddi|zuHause> buildottd should include svn also, so you can put that in path, too
22:12:38 <Timwi> Yay, you're being really helpful now :)))))
22:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause> damn, this savegame is old...
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22:14:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i created it with the elrails branch
22:14:33 <Timwi> OK, 'make' has finished... where is the EXE now? :)
22:15:10 <Timwi> Would it be the one in C:\BuildOTTD\builds\trunk_r10606_17.07.2007_22-58-00 ?
22:15:50 <Phazorx> bottd moves bin there, but make doies not
22:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> no, in the directory where you ran "make"
22:15:56 <Timwi> OK, is it the one in C:\BuildOTTD\msys\home\ottdsrc\trunk\bin ? or C:\BuildOTTD\msys\home\ottdsrc\trunk\objs\release ?
22:16:05 <Timwi> That would be trunk\bin then
22:16:28 <Timwi> In fact those last two have the same date/time stamp, so they might be the same
22:16:47 <Phazorx> that would be strange
22:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it gets compiled in objs/release/ (or objs/debug)
22:17:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and then copied to bin/
22:17:38 <Phazorx> ahh... nm i was still thinking about bottd folder
22:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so it is easy to switch between release and debug builds with the same config and newgrfs
22:18:11 <Timwi> OK, thanks very much for your help, that was really great
22:18:18 <Timwi> My change fixes the issue I am reporting
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22:19:49 <Timwi> Where do I post the patch? :)
22:19:50 <Eddi|zuHause> then why is it fixed for me without those changes?
22:20:05 <Timwi> Eddi|zuHause: Because you were looking at the wrong news item
22:20:13 <Timwi> [23:08] <Eddi|zuHause> let a game run until a subsidy shows up?
22:20:13 <Timwi> [23:09] <Timwi> Well, the problem occurs when a subsidy _expires_
22:20:43 <Desolator> is there any way to get the MD5 of the lastest nightly? (so I can compare it with the MD5 of the downloaded file to check for errors)
22:20:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the show up was also wrong previously
22:21:36 <Timwi> Eddi: Either way, my change fixes the message for expiring and withdrawn subsidies
22:21:47 *** NW|Aerandir has joined #openttd
22:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, ottd just segfaulted on me after reporting a wrong savegame
22:22:06 <Timwi> Where do I post the patch?
22:22:46 <Desolator> [01:20] <Desolator> is there any way to get the MD5 of the lastest nightly? (so I can compare it with the MD5 of the downloaded file to check for errors)
22:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> bugs.openttd.org?
22:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Desolator: shouldn't a defect download not decompress?
22:27:27 <Desolator> well if that happens, the user will be presented an unwanted error message (generated by the ZIP lib I use), thus I can't do something if it's corrupted
22:28:15 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you catch that error?
22:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of bad programming language do you use?
22:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> even batch can catch errors
22:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> just use a unzip that can run in a non-interactive mode, then check the errorlevel
22:29:32 <Desolator> well, a custom-build of LUA (search for AutoPlay Media Studio)
22:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> can't be that difficult
22:30:00 <Desolator> well unfortunately I can't change it
22:30:15 <Desolator> I gotta use what I got...a Zip.Extract action =(
22:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause> should be a command line parameter
22:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> -T test zipfile integrity
22:32:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd guess Zip.Test or something
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22:33:36 <Desolator> but I got a file in the gallery with some more functions...*checks*
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