IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-06-06
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00:40:02 <eekee> Are there any freight tram grfs out yet?
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01:16:45 <Sacro> eekee: i don'#t think so
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03:04:38 <eekee> How do you turn newcargos & newindustrys on?
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04:33:20 <roboboy> is there a way of extending my news history to beyond a save/autosave?
05:59:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10047 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
05:59:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-06 07:59:17
05:59:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 58 fixed by knovak (58)
05:59:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 3 fixed by Hadez (3)
05:59:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 28 fixed by ThomasA (28)
05:59:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 23 fixed by habell (23)
05:59:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 3 fixed by lorenzodv (3)
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06:11:38 <roboboy> is there a way of extending my news history to beyond a save/autosave?
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06:34:41 <roboboy> would it be possible to allow it somehow?
06:40:24 <Rubidium> though not very usefull
06:41:29 <Rubidium> 100 years of new of 8 players, who wants that?
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07:10:36 <roboboy> yeah it wouldnt be that usefull with max players, but sometimes I miss an important industry message because of the number of them, and it cant be seen after the game saves.
07:22:41 <roboboy> one question, can I update a GRF in the middle of a game?
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09:07:43 <peter1138> also, news messages aren't lost when the game is saved
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09:54:09 <roboboy> it seems like that though
09:54:42 <roboboy> as I cant seem to go far back, maybe im just getting too many messages
09:54:47 <boekabart> this is officially the slowest discussion i've ever witnessed
09:55:01 <boekabart> 10 messages during >4 hours
09:55:43 <roboboy> I have been in and out either eating doing homework or watching tv
09:56:26 <boekabart> i can imagine the reasons ;). and peter1138 is actually working it seems :)
10:07:40 <peter1138> news is only held for 3 items
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10:28:18 * boekabart is going to some party somewhere
10:29:53 <roboboy> can that limit be made larger or as an option
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10:51:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10048 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r6455): Don't use override engine type for articulated wagon parts.
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12:37:25 <TheJosh> ok i have a quick c++ question.
12:39:07 <TheJosh> in higher level languages, there is such a thing as a 'dynamic array'. they grow and shrink all by themselves. I know that it is possible to do this in c++ by creating a heap object, and keeping a 'length' parameter, and if you want to grow beyond that length, yo reallocate bigger and copy over all the data. the question is, how do you do this practically (in the scope of OpenTTD that is)
12:39:50 <Biff> realloc() is something you often use for dynamic arrays
12:40:33 <Biff> it expands or shrinks an array
12:40:57 <Biff> well, this is how it can be done in c, i dont know if c++ has some better method to do it
12:41:19 <Biff> realloc(myarr,size*2) for instance
12:41:47 <Noldo> in c++ stdlib there are nice dynamic containers
12:42:06 <Noldo> vector is propably the closest to dynamic array
12:42:11 <TheJosh> realloc is just like malloc
12:42:21 <TheJosh> its currently a fixed array of a struct
12:42:38 <TheJosh> i want it to start at 50 elements, and grow in increments of 50
12:42:59 <TheJosh> most games wont reach 50 anyway, but i need the facility to grow to about 500 if need be
12:43:04 <colle> you could write some kind of a linked list if you don't want to use the stdlib
12:43:12 <Biff> if you use realloc you can accomplish that
12:43:33 <Biff> linked lists are very slow if you iterate through them
12:44:06 <TheJosh> about that. what is the fastest thing to iterate? an array and a for loop?
12:44:51 <Biff> then the array will be cached
12:45:05 <TheJosh> cool thanks. i do a lot of programming in other languages (PHP mainly, as a job) and dynamic + associative arrays are taken for granted
12:45:25 <Biff> the thing to remember is that what makes it slow is when you have to fetch stuff from memory, and its not cached
12:45:45 <Biff> as will often be the case with linked lists
12:46:14 <TheJosh> hylje: php is good for web stuff
12:46:27 <TheJosh> Biff: you mean cached on the cpu?
12:46:27 <Biff> TheJosh: yup, its nice in higher level languages, but thats why they are much much slower then c/c++ for alot of things
12:46:46 <Biff> every memory request goes through the cpu
12:46:59 <TheJosh> Biff: i know, but imagine making a web program in c++
12:47:10 <Biff> yeah, that would be fun :-P
12:47:17 <Biff> its not really all that hard actually
12:47:27 <hylje> TheJosh: developing for php is a pain
12:47:38 <TheJosh> and the cpu can do lookahead? sorry i studied assembly when 386 was the big thing and the cpu didnt do anything cool
12:47:42 <Biff> but i wouldn recommend it
12:47:54 <TheJosh> hylje: i dont mind PHP
12:48:41 <TheJosh> i dont know now...mabey it has changed.
12:48:59 <TheJosh> PHP is real good for building a site quickly
12:49:03 <Biff> it would be alot of code tho
12:49:11 <TheJosh> and talking to databases easily and stuff like that
12:49:11 <Touqen> From what I can tell ebay still uses ISAPI
12:49:20 <Touqen> Which can be written in a number of things
12:49:21 <hylje> Touqen: backwards compability
12:49:45 <hylje> i for one developed a blog app mostly from scratch in about three hours
12:49:46 <Biff> i hope python will be more used for web stuff tho
12:49:49 <TheJosh> i want to learn the php gtk extention...destkop apps
12:50:27 <TheJosh> there is an extention to do _anything_ in php
12:50:28 <Biff> TheJosh: why do you want to learn something you cant name one good program that uses?
12:50:40 <TheJosh> Biff: quest for knowledge
12:50:54 <hylje> i'd rather use python for desktop apps
12:50:57 <TheJosh> i like learning things. not in a class and stuff, but teaching myself
12:50:59 <Biff> how about learning gtk in for example python
12:51:12 <Biff> but learn something that is worth learning
12:51:14 <hylje> hell, i use python for about everything
12:51:23 <TheJosh> my next thing is gtk in c++ once i get alright at c++ (thanks to OpenTTD)
12:51:48 <TheJosh> i havent learnt python yet...perhaps next.
12:52:20 <TheJosh> i know a lot of languages
12:52:31 <eekee> Python's very easy to learn, IMHO
12:52:54 <eekee> Either that or it happens to be compatible with my particular brain damage :d
12:56:34 <TheJosh> i just forgot i learnt scheme the other day and havent added a userbox wo my wikipedia account! panic! (not really, i dont use wikipedia much now)
12:58:29 <TheJosh> im gonna have to learn python now (i have to break 20 languages)
12:59:53 <TheJosh> i am going to shut up now... i am meant to be working
13:00:02 <TheJosh> and i talk way way too much!
13:00:13 <Thomas[NL]> hmm is the wiki down?
13:01:06 <TheJosh> entire website looks down
13:01:26 <Thomas[NL]> www. does work for me
13:01:34 <TheJosh> nope main is good, wiki looks dead
13:05:24 <_42_> glx, MiHaMiX (~miham@xenon.bibl.u-szeged.hu) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 38 minutes ago (06.06. 12:26) stating "Ping timeout: 480 seconds" after spending 1 week 1 day 5 hours 13 minutes there.
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13:05:48 <glx> <Thomas[NL]> hmm is the wiki down? <-- doesn't surprise me :)
13:06:55 <glx> MiHaMiX hosts wiki, and some other services
13:07:17 <glx> if his connection is dead, the hosted thing are too ;)
13:07:50 <Thomas[NL]> I wonder how the r10000 party is going :)
13:07:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
13:20:02 <eekee> anyone know a good pixiel art program for Linux? I'm using the Gimp, &, well, it's passable & I'm familiar with it, but it's... a bit clunky
13:22:42 <TheJosh> bit big for pixel editing?
13:24:27 <TheJosh> what controlls a train while it is in a station? Vehicle::HandleLoading (veichle.cpp) seems to be only called when the train enters, and again when it leaves, and TrainController (train_cmd.cpp) does not appear to be called at all
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13:36:16 <TheJosh> i am also teaching myself gimp, after playing with Corel Photo Paint for ages, and Macromedia FIreworks
13:36:28 <TheJosh> i like the gimp the most (and its easy to make extentions for)
13:37:01 <tokai> the only advance gimp has over photoshop is the price;)
13:37:29 <TheJosh> gimp is pretty good i reckon
13:37:56 <tokai> its a bit uncomfortable to use, but i guess when you're linux only or short on bucks its the perfect choice
13:38:42 <eekee> What I gather (I've never used Photoshop) is that the gimp is pretty good, but people seem to get more done with photoshop. Might be the large number of plugis avalable for ps
13:38:46 <tokai> a real pixel paint app for the modern OSes would be nice. U know.. something like DeluxPaint
13:40:18 <TheJosh> perhaps i will make that my first GTK+ project... i have been looking for something to do with GTK+ once i get better at c++
13:40:38 <TheJosh> you wouldnt happen to know where the train loading code is?
13:42:07 <Unaimed> perhaps BeginLoading is a place to start looking?
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13:43:31 <TheJosh> i just had an idea. there was an old MiniIN patch that does something similar to what im doing. ill look at that
13:44:05 <Unaimed> LoadUnloadVehicle even
13:45:02 <Unaimed> np, been getting used to following the code
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13:45:54 <DJGummikuh> hey which ports do I need to open in my firewall (tcp/udp) for OpenTTD to work?
13:48:10 <eekee> and the bot's down, lol
13:48:13 <_42_> Eddi|zuHause2: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advsertise) communication (outbound)
13:49:22 <DJGummikuh> oh I need tcp AND udp?
13:49:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> it says that :)
13:50:30 <DJGummikuh> can someone please check if my server can be found? "DJGummikuh's playhouse" and if you can join it?
13:50:40 <DJGummikuh> unfortunately I don't have a running client here right nwo to check myself
13:52:02 <TheJosh> you also may need to set up port forwarding, but i am not sure
13:52:23 <DJGummikuh> the iptables are running on the dedicated itself
13:52:54 <eekee> DJGummikuh: found. version mismatch with me though ;0
13:53:09 <DJGummikuh> what version are you running?
13:55:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> r7691M-MiniIN :)
13:56:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i can see it, also.
14:01:07 <blathijs> Greetings from the r10000 party!
14:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> i am pretty sure nobody else out there has my version number :)
14:02:38 <Belugas> greetings to the party from the work farm , blathijs :)
14:02:50 <Belugas> say hi to everyone on my behalf!
14:02:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> who can get me a teleportation device? :)
14:03:36 <eekee> mew, what country, and what region of?
14:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> i even have two heisenberg compensators :)
14:05:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> they are from some star trek card game... they were used as packaging material...
14:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> there also was a montgomery scott and an intrepid class ship (=voyager)
14:10:38 <TheJosh> ok so why would this code not work?
14:10:45 <TheJosh> int DeterminePercentTrainFilled(Vehicle *v) {
14:10:47 <TheJosh> count += v->cargo_count;
14:10:49 <TheJosh> } while ((v = v->next) != NULL);
14:10:49 <TheJosh> return (count / max) * 100;
14:10:54 <TheJosh> sorry about the big post
14:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> TheJosh: paste.openttd.org
14:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> doesn't the code calculate such stats already with improved loading?
14:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> count and max are integers
14:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> so count/max is an integer division
14:14:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> do (count*100)/max instead
14:14:51 <glx> and check for max != 0 before the div (just in case)
14:16:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> of course it works :)
14:16:53 <glx> now try with an engine without wagons :)
14:17:17 <TheJosh> doesnt have that IF yet...
14:17:48 <TheJosh> looks cool too, there is a floating percentage above the train
14:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> on one line without {}
14:18:23 <stillunknown> Is there anything that would prevent simply adding a variable to the saveload table?
14:18:25 <Nickman> don't know the coding conventions used so ;)
14:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> you better read up on those :)
14:18:37 <Nickman> or maybe throw an exeption if possible?
14:18:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> they're in the wiki
14:18:51 <Nickman> yeah, but I havn't started coding anything so ;)
14:19:31 <Nickman> I'm in the middle of my exams right now...
14:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> a min(max,1) should do also
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14:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... MAX(max,1)
14:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> i always pick the wrong one first :p
14:23:08 <stillunknown> MAX is a macro assume?
14:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have seen those around, i don't know how they are called exactly...
14:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not like coding it would require more than 1 line and 2 minutes :)
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15:32:53 <Belugas> [11:28] <ln-_> what about BJARNI? <--- that usually means he did something very wrong in an attempt to fix a bug...
15:37:15 <skidd13> Is the output hiding (i mean stuff like "g++ -DUNIX -DWITH_REV -O2 -fomit-fram...") still in the new makefile?
15:38:39 <skidd13> I allway get the verbose variant. :(
15:39:47 <skidd13> Nope... Seems my bash didn't like it without verbose ;)
15:41:09 <skidd13> bash --version -> 3.1.17(1)-release
15:42:18 <skidd13> or are for the hiding any special settings in the bashrc needed?
15:44:24 <peter1138> what does bash have to do with it?
15:45:15 <skidd13> Cause I run make in bash !?
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16:26:56 <ln-_> it's cute, but how is it made? (assuming it's not made with adobe® photoshop®)
16:27:27 <Touqen> Most bakerys have the ability to screen print onto cakes
16:27:30 <Belugas> a real cake, with a picture printed on a crust of sugar or wathever
16:27:59 <Touqen> Like you can go and get someone's picture printed on their cake or whatever.
16:29:13 <Tobin> Damnit, now I want cake.
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16:56:10 <Bjarni> why do we always join at the same time???
16:56:34 <stillunknown> Can an empty dedicated server be forced to run?
16:56:35 <Wolf01> i'm behind the curtain
16:57:04 <Bjarni> stillunknown: I think so
16:57:25 <Wolf01> set the min_clients to 0
16:59:05 <stillunknown> Wolf01: It's set to 0.
16:59:55 <stillunknown> You are sure that should be it?
17:00:22 <Wolf01> it should be the option you want
17:01:18 <stillunknown> I find it odd, that i can't connect myself
17:01:29 <Bjarni> you should be able to do that
17:01:48 <stillunknown> I desync before i'm even connected.
17:06:07 <Wolf01> if i set min_players to 0 the server continue to play
17:08:29 <stillunknown> I can connect to an empty game, but i cannot connect to an existing (large) savegame.
17:08:43 <Wolf01> just increase the max_join_time
17:09:00 <Bjarni> stillunknown: isn't PossibleRailDepot() the same as IsRailDepot()?
17:10:18 <stillunknown> IsRailDepot asserts in !IsTileType(MP_RAILWAY)
17:10:28 <stillunknown> It's like IsBridge and IsBridgeTile
17:10:41 <stillunknown> One assumes rail, one doesn't.
17:11:53 <Bjarni> + return (IsTileType(t, MP_RAILWAY)
17:11:53 <Bjarni> + && (GetRailTileType(t) == RAIL_TILE_DEPOT));
17:12:17 <Bjarni> wouldn't it be more like && IsRailDepot()?
17:14:25 <Bjarni> the point is that if somebody makes changes to depots and change IsRailDepot, then this function is already updated by using IsRailDepot()
17:16:54 <peter1138> Bjarni: vehicle.cpp:1863 is triggered
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17:19:10 <Bjarni> do we have any more details on this?
17:23:21 <stillunknown> Bjarni: Any other "last" comments?
17:25:29 <Bjarni> I'm still wondering about TrainLeaveTile()
17:26:12 <stillunknown> You need the unique tiles, then you need to determine the amount of cross points.
17:26:24 <stillunknown> Which is a big difference from VehicleEnterTile.
17:28:37 <stillunknown> Fortunately that part of the function is rarely reached.
17:28:38 <peter1138> Wolf01: was just looking at it :)
17:29:02 <stillunknown> Bjarni: almost never in a normal network actually
17:31:15 <Bjarni> btw I wonder about something else. How is trains in depots counted?
17:31:27 <Bjarni> I mean they are build, but they don't enter the tile
17:32:13 <stillunknown> if ( (IsTileType(v->tile, MP_RAILWAY) || IsTileType(v->tile, MP_TUNNELBRIDGE))
17:32:13 <stillunknown> && (GetOccupancy(v->tile) > 1 || PossibleRailDepot(v->tile)) ) {
17:33:10 <stillunknown> CheckTrainCollision(v);
17:33:59 <stillunknown> Actually, that reminds me of something.
17:34:59 <peter1138> bah, i've got a problem
17:36:30 <peter1138> my dinner ran out ;(
17:37:46 <Phazorx> what controls how long trains stay on stations loading/unloading >?
17:39:18 <Bjarni> + if (IsTileType(tile, MP_RAILWAY) && GetOccupancy(tile) > 0
17:39:18 <Bjarni> + && VehicleFromPos(tile, v, EnumCheckRoadVehCrashTrain) != NULL) { <-- but the && last on the previous line instead of first on this line (really minor issue)
17:39:53 <Wolf01> [19:28:44] <peter1138> Wolf01: was just looking at it :)
17:40:16 <Bjarni> Phazorx: There is a function for loading cargo... go look at it. Hint: it has the leave station sound playing
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17:42:44 <stillunknown> Bjarni: i have more serious issue, a very strange regression, that i don't quite understand yet
17:43:10 <Bjarni> I don't think you will need to save freeze_cache
17:43:48 <Bjarni> it's false when you are outside ReverseTrainDirection(). Since you can't save when you are inside ReverseTrainDirection(), then it will always be false, making it pointless to save
17:48:54 <stillunknown> stupid me, i changed IsRailDepot into IsRailWaypoint
17:49:49 <Phazorx> Bjarni: i meant that patch flags affect it
17:51:54 <stillunknown> Bjarni: btw, thanks for the depot, question, it uncovered that: IsTileType(v->tile, MP_RAILWAY) || IsTileType(v->tile, MP_TUNNELBRIDGE
17:52:00 <stillunknown> wasn't needed and not enough
17:52:10 <stillunknown> since that doesn't include stations and crossings
17:54:02 <stillunknown> Bjarni: Now that that is out of the way, anything else?
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17:59:06 <Wolf01> (i think the first, is more train related)
18:02:40 <Wolf01> peter1138 you should know i'm a litte dull ;)
18:03:08 <DJGummikuh> peter1138: LOL "space rays controlling steve ballmer"
18:04:36 <Kjetil> That's why he has no hair on is head.. The hair was fucking with the reception
18:04:49 <stillunknown> Bjarni has left me :-(
18:09:11 <Bjarni> stillunknown: did you see the && issue and the saving issue?
18:09:35 <Bjarni> or did you just look at the code and forget to read what I wrote in the channel ;)
18:10:12 <stillunknown> Was it just that one && or more instances?
18:10:32 <stillunknown> That one is fixed, i will post the new diff, so you can see.
18:10:40 <Bjarni> <Wolf01> peter1138 you should know i'm a litte dull ;) <-- I noticed that ages ago xD
18:12:30 <stillunknown> Bjarni: new patch posted
18:14:49 <stillunknown> Bjarni: It's a shame not every piece of software is checked or made by a person like you.
18:15:04 <stillunknown> You do ensure good code quality, which i can appreciate.
18:15:56 <stillunknown> I'm sure there's code on this planet which makes me cry.
18:17:56 <stillunknown> I wanted to say something nice for a change and people laugh :-( :-)
18:18:49 <Bjarni> it's not a matter of just saying something nice
18:19:07 <Bjarni> it's also WHAT you say xD
18:20:03 <stillunknown> I just noticed one tiny thing, in the old savegame code.
18:20:31 <stillunknown> So give me a minute.
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18:27:27 <stillunknown> Sorry, i would like to do this the right way.
18:28:00 <Wolf01> like me, but i say 2 or 3 days
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18:30:24 <DJGummikuh> allthought I have my port opened up properly, I can't reach the server
18:30:36 <DJGummikuh> !wiki openttd port
18:35:04 <Wolf01> so you should know that what i make, is dome with a lot of sweat and headaches
18:41:54 <stillunknown> Bjarni: are you here?
18:49:03 <stillunknown> Bjarni: updated diff posted, only change is in the savegame load algoritm
19:02:16 <stillunknown> Wolf01: practice makes perfect
19:02:47 <Wolf01> yeah, is the second person who tell it ;)
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19:07:56 <Phazorx> first time i see that error: Too many names defined
19:08:02 <Phazorx> there is a limit for renaming stations?
19:20:15 <Bjarni> at least not without coding and compiling
19:20:50 <Bjarni> stillunknown: the save line needs an extra space so it's aligned with the one next to it
19:21:04 <Bjarni> apart from that, it looks nice. Now you need people to test it
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19:26:08 <stillunknown> Bjarni: extra space were?
19:27:20 <stillunknown> SLE_CONDVARX(cpp_offsetof(Vehicle, u) + cpp_offsetof(VehicleRail, crossing_self), SLE_BOOL, 65, SL_MAX_VERSION),
19:28:36 <eekee> Hey has anyone else noticed a bug in the nightlies (around 9963) where maglev bridges would have ordinary rail for one of their approaches and sometimes their length too? Has it been fixed?
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19:35:55 <eekee> peter1138: oh~ I've got that problem on a game I played a couple of years ago, recently dug out the save game & played it with r9897 (which was fine apart from a billion lost messages) and today loaded it up in 9963 with the symptoms described
19:37:29 <Bjarni> <stillunknown> that line? <-- yes
19:37:30 <eekee> Actually if I load up the save game from 2 years ago the bridges are fine
19:41:08 <Wolf01> ooooook, seem that i fixed the OTTD writing in the title screen
19:41:36 <Wolf01> this time only 2 hours
19:49:54 <TrueBrain> We just finished, but yeah
19:50:26 <Nickman> how many people where there?
19:53:44 <eekee> there was a party, I believe
19:54:13 <Wolf01> i hope the cake was good, i don't like so much that kind of cakes, but i would have liked that one
19:58:59 <eekee> Is there a program to extract the graphics from grfs, making image files?
19:59:11 <Belugas> it is called grfcoded
19:59:20 <Belugas> you can find it on ttdpatch's wiki
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19:59:38 <stillunknown> Bjarni: What kind of testing is required before inclusion?
20:01:40 <Bjarni> stillunknown: verification that it will not assert would be a good start
20:01:49 <Bjarni> like in a zillion different games
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20:18:50 <stillunknown> Bjarni: How am i suppose to achieve that?
20:22:31 <XeryusTC> <@Belugas> it is called grfcoded <- grfcodec, i make that mistake too when trying to compress/decompress :P
20:29:07 <eekee> I remembered hearing the name somewere, so 'translated'
20:33:06 <Eddi|zuHause> stillunknown: prove your code correct :)
20:34:20 <Wolf01> ...don't beg the devs every 5 minutes... (i know something)
20:39:59 <stillunknown> Wolf01: I only beg every 6 minutes ;-)
20:41:43 <stillunknown> Is it acceptable to post a request in general openttd or is that frowned upon?
20:44:51 <Bjarni> <stillunknown> Bjarni: How am i suppose to achieve that? <--- trick somebody into testing your diff
20:45:05 <Bjarni> somebody already talked about one way to test this
20:45:41 <stillunknown> The problem with multiplayer games is that everyone must have a modified build.
20:46:02 <stillunknown> And somebody can hardly test a zillion savegames ;-)
20:48:27 <Bjarni> <stillunknown> And somebody can hardly test a zillion savegames ;-) <--- are you lazy or something???
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20:51:22 <Bjarni> I know that everybody has to have a custom build to test this on a network, but it kind of needs to be tested on network because if it causes desyncs, then we better know that before it's committed
20:52:47 <glx> stillunknown: that's why kaan suggested you ask coop players to test it :)
20:53:23 <stillunknown> I asked Osai, he will test it on some kind of test server they run.
20:53:55 <Bjarni> coop players also tend to know the game and will detect if it starts to behave oddly
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21:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> stillunknown: probably best if you provide a windows build on the forum
21:07:43 <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause: kind of hard to make without a windows box, but i suppose i can ask someone
21:10:31 <stillunknown> Is there a list of things that cause potential problems in network games?
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21:14:07 <Bjarni> everything that affects gameplay can affect network games
21:15:09 <Bjarni> so if you managed to make the patch inconsistent so the cache isn't the same on both server and client, then you might end up with a cache of 1 on a tile with two trains
21:15:20 <Bjarni> I don't think that's likely though
21:15:51 <Bjarni> but if it's 1 on one computer and 2 on another one, then the trains crash one the latter, while they pass though each other on the first, which will cause a desync
21:16:59 <stillunknown> But i desync before the game even starts, sometimes even on a normal build.
21:17:18 <stillunknown> Is it possible that lacking newgrf, which are disabled cause problems?
21:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause> if it desyncs right away, it usually means that you screwed up saving/loading
21:25:08 <valhallasw> what version are you using?
21:25:20 <valhallasw> 0.5 does not automagically check newgrfs iirc
21:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the newgrf check is in 0.5
21:25:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and he's doing a patch for trunk
21:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that's supposed to optimise collision detection
21:27:01 <valhallasw> stillunknown: have you added any new variables that need to be synced between server and client?
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21:33:16 <Bjarni> <valhallasw> ignore me then <--- we always do that :p
21:39:17 <stillunknown> valhallasw: not that i know off
21:39:37 <valhallasw> I just realized I missed the 10k-parteh
21:42:52 <Bjarni> it appears to have been a blast
21:43:37 <Bjarni> <valhallasw> stillunknown: have you added any new variables that need to be synced between server and client? <-- since I have looked at the diff and didn't find any, I would say that this is not the case
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23:09:14 <skidd13> Rubidium: Any progress on my move orders patch?
23:17:16 <Rubidium> no (I'm just back from a long day of traveling and discussing)
23:18:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the party? :p
23:27:51 <ln-_> ok, who was present at the party?
23:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> at least 3 people :)
23:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i was not there :)
23:43:53 <ln-> the party was held on quite a short notice...
23:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it was like a week in advance...
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23:57:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10049 /trunk/src/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: get rid of the SLE_WRITEBYTE obfuscation.
23:59:53 <UndernotBuilder> What can be done for making servers use a 'standarized' revision so the servers use that one and not different ones and then getting more players to the nightlies?
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