IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-06-04
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01:30:58 *** Eddi|zuHause3 has joined #openttd
02:55:50 <Jerub> what really happens when two engines come together.
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04:03:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
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06:34:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10031 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
06:34:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-04 08:32:00
06:34:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 33 fixed by tucalipe (33)
06:34:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 25 fixed by thetitan (25)
06:34:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 31 fixed by arnaullv (31)
06:34:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 28 fixed by Hadez (28)
06:34:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 12 fixed by webfreakz (12)
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08:08:19 <Kage> hi, i got a problem with openttd compiled from svn, did someone can help me?
08:08:59 <boekabart> it never hurts to help - Eek!
08:09:20 <hylje> just ask, don't ask to ask
08:09:31 <boekabart> come to the point already :)
08:09:35 <Kage> boekabart: ok, i just got a sigfault after strart ./openttd
08:09:56 <boekabart> did you apply any patch?
08:10:21 <boekabart> ok. do you run it from the svn BIN folder, and did you add the original game grf files?
08:10:25 <Kage> i updated it 10 seconds befor)
08:11:24 <boekabart> was it a fresh checkout or one used before?
08:11:30 <Kage> i have run windows version of openttd under wine with this files
08:11:51 <boekabart> try to delete the openttd.cfg file
08:12:17 <peter1138> "did someone can help me"? strange english...
08:12:30 <boekabart> because you get a segfault!
08:12:39 <boekabart> so you have to try things to solve it :)
08:12:53 <boekabart> or rename it if you don't want to lose it
08:13:50 <Kage> delete from trunk/bin/data or from trunk/data ??
08:14:15 <boekabart> you have a trunk/data folder?
08:14:34 <boekabart> all data should go in trunk/bin/data , then run from trunk/bin
08:15:13 <boekabart> peter1138: do you have 5 mins to chat about the deep-sea thing?
08:17:03 <Kage> boekabart: now it say what openttd.grf file is corrupted or missing
08:17:50 <boekabart> Kage: that ain't right :(
08:18:46 <boekabart> how can it not find openttd.grf if you svn up ped just now and run from the right location :/
08:23:04 <Kage> boekabart: maybe i need to checkout the bin/data dir directly ?
08:23:26 <hylje> you probably have it corrupted
08:23:34 <boekabart> on *x one also runs openttd from the bin folder, right?
08:23:34 <hylje> try again on another checkout
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08:24:10 <peter1138> if you copied the old data files over what was downloaded then it'll get upset...
08:24:46 <boekabart> Kage right... try svn revert * in thee bin/data folder
08:28:30 <Kage> boekabart: huh, now all fine with openttd.grf
08:28:58 <Kage> boekabart: but i got sigfault anyway
08:29:58 <Kage> i recompiled it a milion of time!
08:30:15 <Kage> with gcc-4.0.3 and gcc-3.4.6
08:31:24 <boekabart> is there any way you can debug and see WHERE it segfaults?
08:32:05 <Kage> i can give you an output of gdb
08:32:31 <boekabart> that won't tell me anything I'm afraid. So, the revert did something, right?
08:32:59 <boekabart> and you did delete the cfg file from the trunk/bin folder?
08:36:02 <Kage> data lang openttd save scenario scripts
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08:39:13 <Kage> boekabart: there is no openttd.cfg in bin folder
08:40:04 <hylje> cfg file is created when ottd runs
08:42:03 <Kage> so i never run becaus i'll always got a segmentation fault!
08:42:33 <Zuu> The cfg is created when ottd exits in a controled way.
08:43:10 <Zuu> (could be before too, but atleast it writes to it when it exits)
08:43:27 <boekabart> Zuu: I think you're right
08:43:38 <boekabart> I have no idea why Kage crashes
08:44:42 <Kage> %src/openttd/svn/trunk/bin # ./openttd
08:44:44 <Kage> MD5 of TRGT.GRF is ****INCORRECT**** - File Corrupt.
08:44:46 <Kage> mcop warning: user defined signal handler found for SIG_PIPE, overriding
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08:46:42 <Kage> %src/openttd/svn/trunk/bin # ./openttd
08:46:44 <Kage> MD5 of TRGT.GRF is ****INCORRECT**** - File Corrupt.
08:46:45 <Kage> mcop warning: user defined signal handler found for SIG_PIPE, overriding
08:47:38 <boekabart> well Kage ... get better data files :?
08:48:26 <Kage> [root@k bin]# gdb openttd
08:48:29 <Kage> Starting program: /src/openttd/svn/trunk/bin/openttd
08:48:31 <Kage> [New Thread 16384 (LWP 2924)]
08:48:32 <Kage> MD5 of TRGT.GRF is ****INCORRECT**** - File Corrupt.
08:48:34 <Kage> mcop warning: user defined signal handler found for SIG_PIPE, overriding
08:48:36 <Kage> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
08:48:37 <Kage> [Switching to Thread 16384 (LWP 2924)]
08:48:39 <Kage> 0x40326f89 in free () from /usr/lib/libc.so.6
08:49:07 <TrueBrain> Kage: I did ask you to use the pastebin, didn't I?
08:49:09 <Kage> but 0.4.8 works fine this that files
08:49:46 <hylje> you are using dos grfs? :o
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08:50:02 <boekabart> that shouldn't matter right? or?
08:53:36 <Kage> how can i find the point in program code there the segfault is?
08:54:20 * boekabart has 0 experience debugging on linux
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08:56:00 <Kage> maybe some one know the place there i can get the right TRGT.GRF file?
08:56:23 <boekabart> (cliche mode) on the original CD!
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08:57:12 <peter1138> but it's only useful with a debug build
08:58:44 <Kage> its about 16000 possibilities for bt
08:59:19 <TrueBrain> boekabart: no, 'bt' in gdb, so that wouldn't do you any good
08:59:48 <boekabart> too bad gdb doesn't have a man fn built in then :)
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09:43:18 <TheJosh> i am having a small dilema. basically, my loading indicators thing is working, but it uses 'text effects' text effects are those things that float up when you buy something. the problem is, there is a limit of 30 text effects for the entire map. thats ok, because its just a constant, but in a game where you could have 500 trains or 1000 trains, even 100 text effects just doesnt seem like enough, because with 1000 trains, there could ea
09:50:20 <TheJosh> i could just crank the number way up...im calculating the struct size right now
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09:51:08 <TheJosh> how many bytes does an Enum usually use? smallest possible?
09:52:11 <Sionide> extend the text effects code to support more ??
09:52:58 <TheJosh> Sionide: easy - change a constante
09:53:15 <TheJosh> but may not be best way...struct is 34 bytes per element
09:53:43 <TheJosh> currently 30 elements (1020 bytes or just under 1kb)
09:54:11 <TheJosh> at 100 elements its 3400 bytes or 3.3kb
09:54:56 <Rubidium> TheJosh: enums are usually sizeof(int)
09:55:15 <TheJosh> but to have a suitable figure that could handle 1000 trains, say 350 elements...11900 bytes (11.62 kb)
09:55:45 <TheJosh> Rubidium: i just learnt that, but thanks. is 12 kb too much for texteffects?
09:57:02 <Rubidium> 1000 trains on a single screen getting paid at (almost) exactly the same time?
09:57:32 <TheJosh> no. its loading indicators. the 'paid' thingo beuing used to show how full the train is
09:58:10 <TheJosh> it needs to be a big enough array to hold a reasonable number of trains loading/unloading at once, and things being bought too
09:59:03 <Rubidium> I'd say you should do some "profiling" on how many vehicles are loading/unloading at the same time in a very big game
10:00:31 <TheJosh> #openttdcoop it is then!
10:01:09 <Rubidium> Pile Transport was (maybe still is) openttdcoop's biggest network
10:02:00 <TheJosh> are you a #openttdcoop player?
10:02:18 <Rubidium> only spectator (when they have desyncs)
10:03:18 <TheJosh> 1005 trains! so i can assume thats as big as openttd scales?
10:03:42 <Rubidium> and that was from before YAPF
10:04:46 <peter1138> is the max vehicles 64k currently?
10:05:19 <peter1138> i seem to remember something about a smaller limit there
10:05:20 <Rubidium> but that (ofcourse) includes smoke and wagons, artic parts etc.
10:05:22 <TheJosh> but 1005 is the highest recorded acheivement
10:05:36 <TheJosh> there is also CPU and RAM limits
10:05:51 <TheJosh> that game advises 'dont turn on NPF'
10:07:34 <peter1138> ah, the limit is not smaller, just commented on, heh
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10:25:21 <TheJosh> error: ‘STR_NUM_IN_STATIONS’ was not declared in this scope. how do i fix this? STR_NUM_IN_STATIONS is a string in english.txt
10:25:52 <boekabart> let the langs 'recompile' ?
10:25:57 <boekabart> you'll get a new string.h
10:26:08 <TheJosh> they did compile though
10:26:30 <TheJosh> file doesnt include string.h
10:27:56 <TheJosh> knew it would be something simple. thanks :)
10:32:20 <TheJosh> how can i share a variable accross files? i am not very good at c++ (although making patches helps heaps!)
10:32:42 <TheJosh> i defined it in openttd.h (its only a hack so i dont care whre it belongs)
10:32:49 <TheJosh> int _in_station_count;
10:33:26 <peter1138> that declares a new variable for each file that includes openttd.h
10:33:36 <peter1138> you need extern in the header
10:33:42 <peter1138> and then a real one in your cpp file
10:34:03 <TheJosh> so extern int _in_station_count; in openttd.h
10:34:20 <TheJosh> and int _in_station_count in say veichle.cpp
10:35:00 <TheJosh> thanks (yet another big build)
10:35:22 <peter1138> the declaration should be in the associated .h file though
10:35:34 <peter1138> so if it's in vehicle.cpp it should go in vehicle.h
10:36:11 <TheJosh> its only so i can count how many veichles are in stations at any one time (in pile) so i know how big to make my limit for texteffects
10:36:19 <Zuu> I've seen VARDEF used instead of "extern" in some places if I read it correctly.
10:36:36 <peter1138> VARDEF is deprecated
10:36:44 <peter1138> cos it's a pain in the arse :)
10:37:21 <boekabart> #define VARDEF extern
10:38:49 <Zuu> peter1138: Good to know.. go and fix src/sigs.h then ;)
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11:39:04 <boekabart> peter1138: how is VARDEF defined if defined outsite openttd code? (why pain @ ass?)
11:41:35 <peter1138> it's a pain because it means the header files do different things depending on where they're included from
11:42:19 <boekabart> ah, sometimes they are extern sometimes not?
11:53:27 <boekabart> excellent solution, that VARDEF. No-one ever considered patching it?
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12:17:33 <boekabart> well removing all the vardef
12:17:47 <boekabart> and adding the implementations to the appropriate cpp files
12:32:33 <boekabart> well that's part of it
12:32:57 <boekabart> but the linking of them had to be added to the (appropriate) cpp files too
12:33:01 <peter1138> +/* variables that used to be VARDEFfed in ai.h */
12:33:10 <peter1138> why is that indented?
12:33:28 <boekabart> the spaces are artefacts...
12:33:35 <boekabart> removing them as we speak
12:33:57 <peter1138> network.cpp is ugly
12:34:08 <peter1138> not your fault, it just is
12:34:40 <Phazorx> hmm.. client just asserted
12:34:48 <Phazorx> while trying to rename vehicle group
12:36:16 <boekabart> hope it works (the diff) I edited the patch file by hand
12:36:33 <boekabart> replaced "\n+ " with "\n+"
12:37:15 <boekabart> made a little script that did it for me, just had to do about 6 cpp files by hand (there was no equally named cpp file for those h files)
12:38:33 <Phazorx> can't test that locally... but - 1. create network game 2. login 2 client 3. client 1 creates "group 1" 4. client 2 creates "group 2" 5. both clients click rename 6. one who OKs rename 1st works, one who renames second asserts
12:38:35 <boekabart> are the comment OK, or other suggestions for them?
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12:40:14 <Zuu> boekabart: Nice work with the VARDEF stuff. :)
12:40:57 <boekabart> hope it was a useful way to spend my lunch break
12:42:18 <boekabart> it compiles and links (msvc), so i guess it's complete
12:43:30 <Zuu> I'll try to compile on gcc.
12:46:48 <Zuu> compiles, links and run here
12:48:00 <boekabart> only thing to confirm now is that I put the questionable ones in the right cpp file
12:48:29 <TheJosh> i have done some testing
12:48:58 <boekabart> gui.h and variables.h went into openttd.cpp ; for the other ones I preferred 1) same_name 2) name_cmd.cpp 3) name_gui.cpp
12:49:00 <TheJosh> pile (1005 trains) averages about 120 in the station at any one time, with a max figure of 148 at the moment
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13:40:24 <Thomas[NL]> how do you make another roadtype always available like normal road now is?
13:42:33 <Rubidium> using GetPlayerRoadtypes I think
13:43:44 <Thomas[NL]> already played a bit with that but couldn't find out how :/
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13:44:52 <boekabart> income: so much. running cost: less. speeding tickets: $$ ;)
13:46:00 <Thomas[NL]> SETBIT(rt, HASBIT(ei->misc_flags, EF_ROAD_TRAM) ? ROADTYPE_TRAM : ROADTYPE_ROAD) means setbit rt to x if there are trams available otherwise set it to y (for only normal roads) ?
13:48:28 <Rubidium> means set the "HASBIT(....) ? RT_T : RT_R"th bit of rt
13:50:08 <Rubidium> so the 2nd (if you count from 1) when it's a tram and the first when it's a "normal" road vehicle
14:06:57 <Thomas[NL]> hmm I got ROADTYPE_XXX = 3, and rt is set to 1001 (or 1011 with trams) but the construction-menu is still greyed out
14:07:33 <Thomas[NL]> ~(p->avail_roadtypes | 1) gives 10 ( I don't now what this line exactly does)
14:07:55 <Rubidium> you set the fourth bit
14:09:24 <Thomas[NL]> ok now it works...
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14:50:43 <Phazorx> does presistent egines controls tram behavior?
14:52:54 <peter1138> it will do the same for trams as it does for other vehicles
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15:11:59 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
15:22:39 <Thomas[NL]> how to get the MD5 hash of a file in a format used in files.h ?
15:23:22 <Rubidium> and add a ", " every two nibbles
15:26:28 <Rubidium> no, Nibbles is a computer game made by Microsoft
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15:31:44 <Thomas[NL]> hmm the normal road sprites are not defined in sprites.h?
15:33:43 <peter1138> a lot of sprites aren't
15:34:06 <boekabart> Thomas[NL]: SPR_ROAD_X and others aren't what you're looking for?
15:35:01 <Thomas[NL]> yes but where are the crossings, elevations etc
15:35:43 <boekabart> hardcoded offsets.. :(
15:36:17 <glx> SPR_CROSSING_OFF_X_RAIL then magic offsets :)
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16:01:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
16:03:25 <Bjarni> Sacro: I didn't greet you since you are an alien
16:03:42 <Sacro> Bjarni: well your infected now
16:04:03 <Thomas[NL]> what stands DDSP for in DDSP_PLACE_ROAD_NW ?
16:04:56 <glx> Thomas[NL]: Drag and drop selection process
16:06:31 *** Progman has joined #openttd
16:07:20 <Sionide> that's the london 2012 olympics logo?!
16:07:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10032 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Add: sort the strings in server language dropdown
16:08:02 <Bjarni> I don't like any of them
16:14:08 <Bjarni> why not just use the logo that is already there
16:25:03 <moe> both for 2012 aint good one lookes like 212.0 and one in undefinable.
16:39:25 <Unaimed> Who can accept my flyspray new user creation?
16:40:37 <Unaimed> am i not supposed to get a confirmation email, which i havent
16:40:57 <glx> Unaimed: check in junk mail
16:41:09 <Unaimed> the junk mail filters are all turned to off
16:41:19 <Unaimed> and no mail in junk mail
16:42:06 *** Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo
16:45:22 <Unaimed> I supposed someone had to "accept" because this is shown at the new user screen: "IF YOU ENTER FAKE DETAILS, YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE YOUR CODE."
16:45:38 <Unaimed> does it accept @hotmail.com adresses?
16:45:46 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
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16:51:26 <Thomas[NL]> can someone explain line 358-361 of road_gui.cpp ?
16:57:27 <Unaimed> It appears that flyspray doesn't like hotmail.com, or hotmail.com doesn't like flyspray
16:58:52 <Unaimed> my global preferences need to be accepted by someone
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17:03:17 <Thomas[NL]> or can someone just explain what (_cur_roadtype << 3) does ?
17:03:23 <stillunknown> Bjarni: about the cache thing, is convincing you enough or do i need to poke other people too?
17:05:11 <stillunknown> Thomas[NL]: bitshift the variable _cur_roadtype 3 times
17:06:18 <stillunknown> Which should be equivalent to _cur_roadtype * 8 (in almost all cases)
17:07:07 <Rubidium> stillunknown: you're making it horribly complex for Thomas[NL] with those multiplications
17:07:28 <Rubidium> it's just that you've got 2 times 32 'bits' to put all information for a command in.
17:07:55 <Rubidium> in this case multiple "variables" are put together into a single variable
17:08:25 <Thomas[NL]> I think I get it :)
17:08:45 <stillunknown> Rubidium: I said bitshift 3 times and multiply by 8, since each bitshift is essentially a factor 2
17:09:14 <stillunknown> I just wanted to be as complete as i could be.
17:09:16 <Rubidium> stillunknown: in essence maybe, but bitshifts shouldn't be (directly) used for arithmetics
17:09:44 <Rubidium> if you want to multiply something by 8 you should write x * 8, not x << 3
17:10:08 <Rubidium> if you want to stuff some bits into a variable at different places you should used bitshifts and not multiplication
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17:11:31 <Thomas[NL]> Is it a problem I added another road type so _cur_roadtype is bigger ?
17:11:40 <Luukland> is there a program that is able to copy pieces of a scenario map? So I can copy the landscape?
17:11:48 <Rubidium> anyway, in the case where Thomas[NL] is looking at _place_road_flag has 3 "significant" bits, _cur_roadtypes has 2 "significant" bits
17:12:03 <Rubidium> Thomas[NL]: where did you add it, or rather how did you add it?
17:12:09 <Rubidium> are you just using ROADTYPE_HWAY?
17:12:33 <Thomas[NL]> No i'm not using HWAY
17:12:54 <Rubidium> there is only place for 3 roadtypes on the map
17:13:16 <Luukland> someone here who can answer my question?
17:14:24 <skidd13> Luukland: There is a copy and paste patch out in the forum. IIRC its called Build Templates
17:15:20 <Thomas[NL]> I don't think that is what you are searching for...
17:15:20 <Luukland> if i make a scenario in nightly's will it be playable with OTTD 0.5.2?
17:16:50 <Luukland> then it has no effect :)
17:16:54 <Rubidium> Luukland: and what of the landscape do you want to copy?
17:19:08 <Luukland> so i get 10 islands of the same shape :)
17:20:04 <Rubidium> you could fiddle a little with heightmaps and a image editor
17:20:15 <Rubidium> and then load the heightmap in the scenario editor
17:20:37 * Luukland does not know how to work with heightmaps
17:23:21 <Thomas[NL]> I remember one of the devs had a very cool patch where everyone had his one land on multiplayer
17:23:54 <Rubidium> that is/was far far from actually being finished
17:24:28 <Luukland> I have found something different ^^
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17:26:49 <Luukland> it doesn't work only
17:28:27 <Rubidium> that patch will fail horribly in trunk
17:28:48 <Luukland> but i am using it on 5.2.0
17:29:29 <Rubidium> why is it people *always* mess up the order of the digits in version numbers?
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17:30:23 <Sacro> Rubidium: sort the numbers and put the highest first
17:31:26 <Rubidium> OMFG why did RichK67 even think of including that piece of crap into MiniIN?
17:31:33 <Luukland> i forgot the 0 only Rubidium
17:31:40 <Luukland> it should be 0.5.2.0
17:31:53 <Luukland> so 5.2.0 is kind of correct ^^
17:32:36 <Sacro> you can drop numbers on the right, but not the left
17:37:18 <skidd13> Rubiudium: Serious question!?
17:37:42 <Sacro> skidd13: serious answer!
17:38:15 <Rubidium> skidd13: no, not really as I'm not going to rewrite that crap or even thinking about accepting it *ever* in this state
17:40:15 <Rubidium> that's creepily large
17:41:24 <skidd13> It could be cut into 3 main parts. Skip order, move order, new gui with the new order display.
17:41:56 <skidd13> The skip order part is already posted to flyspray.
17:45:43 <Rubidium> what's the whole idea behind the skip to change?
17:45:47 <Frostregen__> the next two weeks i have plenty of time, so if someone will guide me, i could rewrite the whole c&p
17:45:52 *** Frostregen__ is now known as Frostregen
17:46:23 <Frostregen> the rotating stuff could be done with some table, i guess
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17:46:46 <skidd13> The idea is skip to selected order. I changed the name also cause it's more descriptive.
17:48:21 <skidd13> Skip could mean more. Quite the same as you say the icons, can be understood diffrent... ;)
17:49:47 <Rubidium> but do we actually want/need to have that?
17:50:28 <skidd13> It was suggested a few times in the forum.
17:50:55 <Rubidium> how often do you actually use the skip station button?
17:51:24 <skidd13> If I rebuild larger hubs, probably often. :(
17:51:49 <Rubidium> why would you need to skip stations when rebuilding a hub?
17:52:09 <Rubidium> then you need to skip orders for your hundreds of vehicles
17:52:28 <Rubidium> how would a traffic jam be solved by skipping orders?
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17:53:30 <skidd13> no only the ones who are not going over the by-pass.
17:54:52 <Rubidium> how can you reduce the number of vehicles going over a bypass by skipping orders?
17:56:26 <skidd13> I wasn't talking about reducing them. I was talking about the ones who are between the departure of the bypass and the half demolishe hub.
17:56:39 <skidd13> demolishe -> demolished
17:58:18 <Rubidium> so you want them to skip to the next station?
17:59:18 <skidd13> No there are waypoints between. So I've to skip to the over-over-next station.
17:59:49 <Rubidium> that many waypoints in your hub?
18:00:33 <skidd13> Depends on the position of the hub. Not in the hub. I use them like speed signs.
18:01:08 <Rubidium> anyhow, imo point-click is faster than point-click-point-click and even point-click-click-click-click is faster than point-click-point-click
18:02:45 <skidd13> The thing from RichK. Or is it called routes? Allow only a group of vehicles to pass the sign...
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18:04:33 <skidd13> Another reason for the skip to could be to balance the traffic after adding new trains to a shared order list.
18:05:06 <Rubidium> but most often you skip one, maybe two orders
18:05:17 <Rubidium> which makes point-click-point-click pretty annoying (to me at least)
18:05:36 <skidd13> As I said before depends on the style of building.
18:06:26 <Rubidium> so, skip and skip to?
18:07:30 <skidd13> Or what is if you click one time to much. You have to skip the whole list. With click-click-click-click-.....
18:07:56 <skidd13> Skip is skip to current+1 isn't :)
18:08:55 *** Digitalfox_ is now known as Digitalfox
18:09:03 <skidd13> diffence -> difference
18:09:52 <Rubidium> skip is easier in most "simple" cases, the only need skip to if you have a lot to skip
18:11:00 <skidd13> Thats why "skip to" is ctrl+"skip button".
18:11:33 <stillunknown> Does anyone else have a cut off A in available vehicles, in the road vehicles display?
18:13:29 <Rubidium> oh, it's already implemented in that way... good way to show that big diffs aren't good for reviewing
18:14:10 <skidd13> I told you that this part is already separated and posted to flyspray. ;)
18:14:34 <stillunknown> skidd13: You should also poke devs ;-)
18:16:06 <Rubidium> stillunknown: I don't (or I'm looking at the wrong place)
18:16:12 <Wolf01> could i poke somebody to get a fix of the transparency gui in trunk? (and maybe some new liiiittle features like invisible houses)
18:16:37 <skidd13> stillunknown: IMO poke is a bit rude. So I only poke if there are more conversations at the same time or the conversation has been stoped for a while.
18:16:38 <stillunknown> Rubidium: When you click the road vehicle icon, in the main screen.
18:16:56 <stillunknown> It sais "Available road vehicles"
18:16:59 <Rubidium> don't have a problem there; any "custom" fonts?
18:17:14 <stillunknown> Not that i know off.
18:17:34 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
18:18:50 <Rubidium> can you post a screenshot of it? Can't find any overflow in my trunk version
18:20:03 <hylje> bug in autoreplacing; creates train 0:s
18:21:35 <hylje> it happens when autoreplacing a D/EMU which has newgrf constraints on engine count
18:21:53 <hylje> the leftover loco becomes a missingno
18:22:18 <hylje> did i just hit a bjarnism?
18:23:19 <Rubidium> autoreplace == Bjarnism
18:23:43 <Rubidium> autoreplace is a subset of Bjarnisms
18:25:57 <Rubidium> ohoh.. failage in applying that patch
18:26:48 <skidd13> Sure it has beed a long time in there.
18:28:52 <skidd13> Rubidium: Update needed or are you willed to patch it by hand? :)
18:29:11 <Rubidium> skidd13: already done so
18:32:03 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
18:33:23 <stillunknown> Were has the old savegame loop stuff gone?
18:34:23 <stillunknown> The place were you can put If(Version == foo) {
18:35:02 <Belugas> in openttd.cpp, stillunknown, iirc
18:35:10 <Rubidium> it has always been where it currently is
18:35:34 <Rubidium> stillunknown: you failed to tell me that you use US English!
18:35:45 <Belugas> line 1194, AfterLoadGame
18:36:29 <stillunknown> Rubidium: That was not intentional.
18:36:41 <Rubidium> so it's the translators fault
18:41:55 <Bjarni> <hylje> it happens when autoreplacing a D/EMU which has newgrf constraints on engine count <-- please explain or tell me how to make this happen myself
18:45:11 <hylje> norwegian trainset v0.4b; make a BM92 DMU consisting of three units
18:45:23 <hylje> autoreplace that into BM93 DMUs
18:45:53 <hylje> it should end up with a train zero and the original train partially autoreplaced
18:55:43 *** alanin is now known as Alanin
18:55:52 *** Alanin is now known as alanin
18:56:42 <Bjarni> I didn't get a train 0
18:56:49 <Bjarni> I have two train 1 instead
18:57:11 <hylje> which is kind of bad as well
18:57:29 <Bjarni> also I know why this happens
18:58:25 <Bjarni> the first unit is replaced. It fails to apply the rest of the train to the new front (wrong type) and then it moves on and new_v->next is NULL => end of replacing
18:59:39 <Bjarni> this is actually really hard :(
19:04:59 <laci> i have a suggestion for a nice feature that it's not in the original ttd
19:04:59 <Bjarni> fucking stupid train...
19:05:28 <Wolf01> what suggestion? i might be able to code it :D
19:05:30 <Bjarni> why couldn't the grf set just make it like the other sets. Then this problem wouldn't be here :(
19:06:26 <laci> it would be nice to see the price offered by factories before you build a track to it... and the price should be calculated not (As now) by the numberof tracks from the source, but based on this pirce
19:07:05 <Bjarni> the price should be based on the price?
19:07:11 <Wolf01> there isn't a price offered by factories
19:07:12 <skidd13> laci: there is already a patch doing this IIRC its called industry directory
19:07:36 <laci> no, the price the factory pays, should not be calculated by the lenght of the track
19:08:11 <laci> cause I can build a VERY big track and get rich
19:08:27 <Bjarni> just like in the real world
19:08:46 <laci> i'm into import export in the real world
19:09:18 <laci> and the client doesn't care if I sell him goods from south africa or just around the corner, he payd the same price
19:09:24 <Bjarni> transport something 30 km at price A. Transport the same amount 100 km and the price is way more than A
19:09:28 <Wolf01> yes, it is, if you have a transport service, you should ask more to carry the same ammount of goods more far away
19:09:49 <laci> i know, but let me explain myself....
19:10:00 <stillunknown> You don't actually buy and sell the goods, but you only transport them.
19:10:14 <stillunknown> Someone's paying you to do the shipping.
19:10:43 <Bjarni> if the distance doesn't matter, then make a line of just 4 tiles and you will be rich in no time
19:11:12 <laci> the distance should matter... but at the moment you can cheat the game... let me just explain
19:13:14 <laci> i have a coal mine and a factory 3 squares apart.. .. if I get paid let's say 100 usd for the transport, but if I transport to the same factory from the other part of the map (400 squares), i get payed 10.000 usd
19:14:08 <laci> so, in the real world, my client is a REAL idiot to pay me 10.000 for the same coal i can transport him for 100:)
19:15:03 <Bjarni> I prefer coal from southern Poland or Germany rather than the local coal because there is a difference in quality
19:15:16 <laci> .... if the factory needs more coal, it's ok, but in the game it never says how much a factory can "absorb"
19:15:18 <Bjarni> in fact the quality here is so poor that they stopped mining it
19:15:56 <laci> yes, but in the game it's me who chooses the location and not the client that pays for transport:)
19:16:30 <Bjarni> so you are asking for cargo destinations
19:16:39 <laci> I guess, all I want is a more complex simulation, not just transport, but buy/sell:)
19:16:40 <Bjarni> the origin of the cargo decides where it wants to go
19:16:51 <Bjarni> have you tried simutrans?
19:16:58 <Bjarni> I guess it has what you are asking for
19:17:29 <Bjarni> a coal mine has 1-5 destinations for it's coal, so coal is not just coal
19:17:53 * Sacro hates trains that run around
19:18:12 <laci> when the midi files are changing, it stops the entire computer on XP for 1-1.5 seconds
19:18:31 <Bjarni> Sacro: but wheels on them. Then they will roll instead of walk around :p
19:18:43 <Sacro> its blocking my station ><
19:19:01 <Sacro> let a goods train throguh 40 mins early
19:19:13 <laci> and... I found on the net some mp3 files of the music, you could ask the owner to let you incorporate those in the game as are very high quality
19:19:53 <laci> it would make openttd a lot bigger, but i preffer mp3 quality
19:20:24 <laci> A user called Mircea has created a very high quality version of the music in MP3 format, using quality instrument samples and fine editing. You can listen to the MP3s using the player below (select songs in the "High Quality MP3" section), or you can download them here. They sound really good, check them out! Click here to visit Mircea's site.
19:20:36 <Sacro> laci: yes, but who is the *owner*
19:20:36 <_Mist_> 'mp3' and 'quality' - there's a combination you doesn't hear too often
19:20:51 <hylje> mp3 gets pretty good quality with high bitstreams
19:20:52 <laci> well, it's bettter then mids
19:20:57 <_Mist_> hylje: yeah, by all means
19:21:04 <Touqen> mp3 compared to midi is like night and day
19:21:28 <Sacro> depends on your patchset
19:21:32 <Biff> there is no reason why mp3 cannot be good
19:21:41 <Touqen> And mp3 at 320 is indistinguishable from CDs :D
19:21:48 <Bjarni> a mp3 file made from the output of a midi file isn't any better than the midi itself
19:22:09 <Bjarni> besides midi isn't that bad
19:22:25 <Touqen> Well midi with crappy samples sucks.
19:22:56 <laci> well, jus try the mp3 files on that page
19:23:18 <laci> it's a very big difference from the midi my computer plays
19:26:28 <Sacro> Bjarni: do you do much manouvring wiht trains?
19:27:41 <laci> did you try the mp3 files? are they very good or what?
19:28:01 <Bjarni> <Sacro> Bjarni: do you do much manouvring wiht trains? <-- I can do it if that is what you mean ;)
19:28:21 <Sacro> i have 2 trains both waiting for the other
19:28:46 <Bjarni> maybe you meant that a bit different from what I answered though
19:29:56 <Sacro> Bjarni: it's a signalling simulation
19:30:56 <Bjarni> so you have a signal simulation with two trains waiting at red signals
19:31:24 <Sacro> i have a fair few at red signals
19:32:01 <Bjarni> you mean like it's some kind of station manager/dispatcher simulation?
19:32:47 <Sacro> i considered implementing something in OpenTTD
19:33:08 <Bjarni> do you have a link to somewhere that tells about this simulator?
19:33:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10033 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Feature [FS#760]: skip to the selected order in the order list when clicking on the "skip" button while pressing CTRL.
19:36:22 <Sacro> one is supposed to come off the head of that train, to shift the other
19:37:04 <Bjarni> it would be even more interesting if I knew what software you found
19:38:15 <stillunknown> Bjarni: got a minute?
19:39:21 <Bjarni> I thought that I just fixed the autoreplace issue, but now I got a NOT_REACHED instead :(
19:39:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10034 /trunk/src/lang/ (35 files in 2 dirs): -Change: remove the string changed in r10033 from the translations, so it will be properly translated in all languages.
19:40:21 <stillunknown> Bjarni: ping when you have time
19:42:02 <Bjarni> hylje: err... are you aware of the replacement that you asked autoreplace to do.... you can't even do it manually
19:42:17 <hylje> Bjarni: thats the point
19:42:31 <Bjarni> then what do you expect it to do?
19:43:06 <Bjarni> it shouldn't blow up the depot either
19:43:12 <Bjarni> but what should it do? :)
19:43:40 <Bjarni> it's easy to say what it shouldn't do, but defining what it should do in this case isn't the easiest part of it :s
19:43:52 <hylje> either canceling the replacement or disposing of the incompatible locos
19:44:38 <Kjetil> it should blow up all factories and exit without saving
19:45:04 <Bjarni> and empty the autosave dir
19:45:12 <Kjetil> s/without saving/overwrite all your savegames/
19:45:22 <Bjarni> it should also change the language to Chinese and save the settings
19:45:37 <hylje> and attempt to root the box
19:46:11 <Kjetil> And spam ttdpatch with hatemail
19:47:59 <Belugas> that is REALLY not nice to say, Kjetil.
19:48:19 <Belugas> you should be ashamed of such a behaviour
19:48:21 <Kjetil> It wasn't meant to be :P
19:48:32 <hylje> its not like we werent discussing nasty stuff to do
19:48:44 <stillunknown> You should be kinder to openttd's spiritual parent.
19:49:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10035 /trunk/src/network/ (network.h network_gui.cpp): -Change: simplified network language string sorting
19:49:49 <Kjetil> Pfft.. OpenTTD has hit puberty and is rebelling against it's parents :D
19:50:12 <Wolf01> oh commits... features... oxygen!
19:50:50 <Belugas> OpenTTD? rebelling? nope... Users do ;)
19:51:14 <Belugas> OTTD still presents his respect to the Patch
19:51:35 <Belugas> we might outgrow the Patch one day, though ;)
19:51:38 <Bjarni> never be amazed by user stupidity... if you think it can't get any lower, then go read bash.org
19:51:43 <Belugas> although it's not the goal...
19:51:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10036 /trunk/src/ (settings_gui.cpp strings.cpp): -Add: sort the strings in town names dropdown
19:51:51 <Bjarni> and everybody in here will appear bright
19:51:59 * Kjetil thinks OTTD will outlive ttdpatch
19:52:21 <Belugas> outlive? not sure. Outgrow maybe
19:52:23 <Bjarni> and nothing is for sure
19:52:42 <Belugas> Patch has been around for a longer time, and still gets out some new cool stuff
19:53:02 <Belugas> and we are still playing catchup
19:53:14 <Belugas> even if we have our one new cool features
19:54:01 <Bjarni> the patch will never get a fully functioning autoreplace
19:54:21 <Bjarni> I mean it looks like we can't even get it to work right, how would they do it???
19:54:58 <Bjarni> autoreplace works... except that once it works, some grf set figures out how to make really odd settings and break it
19:55:00 <stillunknown> Bekugas: But catchup is nearing an end, i think.
19:55:20 <Belugas> still a lot to do do, stillunknown
19:55:36 <stillunknown> Bjarni: Maybe send the train to depot and give a warning.
19:56:09 <Bjarni> the warning issue is not an issue
19:56:09 <Rubidium> well, we're at a stage that neither OTTD's NewGRF support not TTDP's NewGRF support is a superset of the other's support
19:56:22 <Bjarni> the issue is that my fix can cause asserts :(
19:56:48 <stillunknown> Guess there is a length limit.
19:57:17 * Rubidium wonders what "soon" is in TTDP terms
19:57:19 <stillunknown> I wanted to paste some warnings.
19:57:33 <stillunknown> But my irc client isn't playing along.
19:57:42 <stillunknown> It's about the gui stuff you just changed.
19:58:17 <Sacro> <Bjarni>> the issue is that my fix can cause asserts :( <- nothing ever changes
19:58:51 <glx> stillunknown: what is your compiler?
19:59:43 <stillunknown> That's a bold statement, you should try to back it up.
20:00:47 <glx> usually it's mine that complaints about that (3.4.2) ;)
20:00:52 <Rubidium> funky, mine's 4.1.2 too and doesn't complain
20:01:18 <stillunknown> doing make clean, just to be sure
20:01:28 <peter1138> strange glitches on my screen :/
20:01:55 <peter1138> /home/peter/ottd/trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp:688: warning: ‘sel’ may be used uninitialized in this function
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20:07:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r10037 /trunk/src/ (network/network_gui.cpp settings_gui.cpp): -Fix (r10035, r10036): silence some 'may be used uninitialized' warnings
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20:12:00 * Bjarni yells at GRF consist restrictions
20:12:23 <Bjarni> it was working so well until somebody tried to make autoreplace do something you can't even do manually
20:12:52 <stillunknown> Know who to blame yet?
20:13:10 <Bjarni> the Norwegian train set GRF coders
20:13:17 <Bjarni> and hylje for detecting this
20:13:19 <Wolf01> Bjarni, just pop up an error "i can't do this, do it with your hands"
20:14:54 <Bjarni> right now it splits the train into two and then both are stopped in the depot, using the same orders, number and stuff
20:16:16 <OwenS> Bjarni: Just ignore consist restrictions for autoreplace?
20:16:19 <peter1138> implement newgrf autoreplace ;)
20:16:45 <Bjarni> OwenS: I can't. Autoreplace uses the normal commands to avoid bugs
20:17:41 <Sacro> Bjarni: so why the bugs?
20:18:15 <Bjarni> because... user stupidity tried to make autoreplace do something you can't do manually
20:18:33 <Bjarni> autoreplace detects the failure when it's too late to turn back and forget about the replacement
20:18:50 <OwenS> Bjarni: Is "openttd: /home/Mucht/OpenTTD-PublicServer/src/spritecache.cpp:291: void CompactSpriteCache(): Assertion `i != _spritecache_items' failed." possibly related?
20:19:57 <Bjarni> it's not trying to get autoreplace to join two locomotives that the GRF set restricted against putting together
20:20:21 <OwenS> Possibly to do with the fact that it ends up making lots of Train 0s?
20:20:38 <Bjarni> that shouldn't cause any problems
20:21:08 <Bjarni> the number is actually a display thing
20:21:31 <Bjarni> and is not related to sprites
20:22:10 <OwenS> So I wonder what the spritecache issue is then...
20:22:56 <Rubidium> OwenS: most likely some messed up train that was allowed to leave the depot without being "correct" (like some dbsetxl trains)
20:23:15 <OwenS> Which were created by the 10s by autoreplace...
20:24:49 <peter1138> the spritecache thing is a bug in dv's version of my patch, iirc
20:30:47 <Phazorx> peter1138: not relation but we had another weirdness with norwegiaan trainset earlier
20:30:52 <Phazorx> which could have contributed
20:31:05 <OwenS> The autoconvert? Also known
20:31:07 <Phazorx> sbahn trans were autoreplaced by mistake
20:31:32 <Phazorx> and due to requiremeants for engine/car ration in grf - we got doznes on train with number 0
20:32:07 * orudge starts a petition for OwenS to change his name to BobS
20:32:19 <Phazorx> autoconvert worked but i guess it should have behavid as "wagon removal" on i guess
20:32:42 <Phazorx> it's been moths since i asked you to kill/reset my acc at tt-f
20:33:07 <orudge> and what do you want doing to it?
20:33:29 <Phazorx> same nick "Phazorx" i just want to be able to use it
20:33:35 <Phazorx> i can rereg it if you kill it
20:33:47 <orudge> do you remember the password?
20:33:53 <Phazorx> or if you can revive it - i'll continue as is
20:34:06 <Phazorx> what's minimal number oh chars - 6 ?
20:34:18 <Phazorx> only thing i want - have same name as i got used to :)
20:34:31 <Phazorx> dont care about post counter or any stuff like that
20:34:36 <Phazorx> if it dies- hell with it
20:34:38 <orudge> hm, the user IS active, rp
20:34:41 <orudge> you should be able to log in :/
20:34:49 <Sacro> 1.7976931348623157×10^308
20:35:18 <orudge> I probably fixed it months ago :p
20:35:33 <Phazorx> orudge: i tried each of times before asking you
20:35:51 <Phazorx> login attept were giveing - soemthing is wrong please contact admin
20:36:22 <peter1138> oh, it was Rubidium not darkvater :p
20:37:19 <Rubidium> peter1138: AFAIR I didn't change anything about the patch itself
20:37:28 <peter1138> well it's not my version of the patch
20:38:53 <orudge> Phazorx: odd, I didn't alter anything now :p
20:39:08 <Phazorx> orudge: probably was done a while ago, bit not months :)
20:39:17 <Phazorx> thanks anyway. it works now
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20:43:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10038 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp:
20:43:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r8634): Sprite resulting from '?' substitution was reloaded into the cache
20:43:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: entry for SPR_IMG_QUERY instead of the original sprite cache entry. This
20:43:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: resulted in unaccounted missing sprite cache memory, and was exacerbated because
20:43:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: the original missing sprite was not cached, so it did it again and again and
20:43:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: again. Slowdowns and boom. Etc.
20:45:31 * Phazorx thinks cooper needs to get official ottd testers badge
20:45:55 <Phazorx> and now i need to hunt someone wuth vc2005 to compile it
20:46:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r10039 /trunk/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp: -Fix: [autoreplace] when trying to replace an engine that can't carry the wagons the old one carries (GRF restrictoin), then don't try to replace at all
20:46:17 <peter1138> well, i knew about that one anyway
20:46:27 <peter1138> i always wondered why my patch was made faulty :p
20:46:43 <Phazorx> Bjarni: thanks that's a good one too
20:47:30 <Phazorx> peter1138/bjarni who normaly does w32 builds?
20:47:32 <Bjarni> you mean you had problems with this without telling me?
20:48:33 <Phazorx> dont have it setup but i guess i can invest time imto that while cant connect neways
20:49:15 <Phazorx> Bjarni: i just mentioned that
20:49:15 <Wolf01> how can i edit my tasks on flyspray?
20:49:24 <Phazorx> it shown itself with norwegian trains
20:49:33 <Phazorx> DMUs wont replace properly
20:50:40 <Bjarni> DMUs appears to be screwed in that set :s
20:50:54 <Phazorx> well they work untill you try to autoreplace
20:51:13 <Phazorx> since they have diff requirements to engines/wagons ratio - it works ugly
20:51:31 <Phazorx> we had dozen of engines with no trains running all IDed as train 0
20:51:49 <Bjarni> <Wolf01> how can i edit my tasks on flyspray? <-- I'm not sure that you are allowed to do so
20:51:53 <Bjarni> what do you want to do?
20:52:19 <Wolf01> because i mistook a word (missed an h) and so the sentence doesn't make sense
20:52:59 <Wolf01> but permissions show that i can modify my own tasks
20:53:41 <Bjarni> doubleclick on the text
20:53:45 <Rubidium> probably only when it's assigned to you, but try doubleclicking on the text
20:54:21 <Bjarni> I can edit it if you can't
20:54:23 <Wolf01> the page reloads and "edit" appear on the url, but i can't modify it
20:54:33 <Bjarni> well I can even if you can ;)
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21:03:01 * Phazorx wonders if there is a gentoo port of ottd
21:04:12 <Phazorx> according to slashdot on of most popular linux distros?
21:04:15 <glx> [23:03:10] Phazorx wonders if there is a gentoo port of ottd <-- yes get the source, extract, ./configure && make :)
21:04:36 <Phazorx> glz i want "emerge openttd"
21:05:16 <Phazorx> no problem with compiling it on *nix tho
21:05:34 <Phazorx> just was wondering if there was enuild maintainer
21:22:09 <Vikthor> Phazorx: Ebuild is in the portage
21:22:32 <Phazorx> Vikthor: you are maintainer?
21:23:03 <Phazorx> i see, thanks for info
21:23:40 <TrueBrain> 'gentoo port', lol!
21:23:48 <TrueBrain> gentoo doesn't need a port, it is a linux, so nothing to 'port'
21:24:24 * TrueBrain wonders why 0.5.X isn't marked stable :p
21:24:46 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i meant ebuild
21:24:54 <Phazorx> portage ports you know :)
21:25:04 <TrueBrain> lol, I wouldn't be calling it porting
21:25:32 <Phazorx> not the best descriptor but i kidna got used to that with all apt-get and such
21:26:38 <Vikthor> Phazorx: Maybe the right word is package, ports is used in some BSD I think
21:26:59 <TrueBrain> ports is what you do when you make the software compatible to run on an other OS
21:27:07 <TrueBrain> like you port a windows application to linux
21:27:34 <Phazorx> i know TrueBrain what ports are thank you very much :)
21:27:42 <TrueBrain> but you misused it :p
21:27:47 <Phazorx> but before that there was BSD ports system :)
21:27:58 <Vikthor> Yes thats true, but some BSD flavor uses it as name for packaging system, or the pckages,
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