IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-05-24
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00:33:18 <Sacro|Laptop> i don't understand yapf
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01:12:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r9906 /trunk/src/ (industry.h table/build_industry.h): -Codechange: Add common properties for both industry and industry tiles specs
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02:12:32 <staniel> hmm don't know if this is an error or not
02:13:17 <staniel> but under the detail performance rating: minimum profit shows 0%, even though my lowest profit is ~16k
02:18:50 <glx> vehicle younger than 3 years don't count
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02:34:09 <Jerub> I never knew this, but does "Load" for aircraft not wait for mail?
02:34:17 <Jerub> That's the behaviour I observed today.
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02:46:57 <Belugas> working fine for me as we speak...
02:47:30 <Belugas> maybe you're too far from town
02:47:54 <Belugas> or maybe your plane is refited to something else than passeners
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03:22:09 <Jerub> hey, maybe that was it.
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04:31:10 <staniel> Jerub: check the patches, under stations there is "Leave station when any cargo is full, if 'full load'
04:32:17 <Jerub> I wonder what effect that has if you use a loco that can carry 8 bags of mail and a town creeps close to the station.
04:32:19 <staniel> trying to figure out if htere is anyway to tweak the auto-renew to buy newer planes to replace old wons
04:42:22 <staniel> woo! figured it out finally
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05:21:32 <staniel> im in love with the dinger 200
05:24:10 <staniel> my best performer is netting me 1.5million a year
05:28:13 <Jerub> I'm still experimenting with the best ways to play this game.
05:28:30 <Jerub> i was more than a little shocked to find out how much money I made moving passengers.
05:29:15 <Jerub> and my problems with things like oil is that a) I make bucketloads of money, b) I need to run goods trains too, and c) I'm not good enough at designing high load intersections.
05:29:46 <boekabart> don't be, the challenge isn't to make money, it's just to play and transport as much as you can
05:29:58 <Jerub> so do planes actually travel at their speed? or is it scaled back?
05:30:08 <boekabart> not yet, i've understood
05:30:15 <boekabart> they are working on it.
05:30:29 <Jerub> Well, I'm certaintly enjoying.
05:30:40 <Jerub> I'm playing on hard. It's good to be challenged.
05:31:01 <Jerub> but the AI is terrible at Hard difficulty. it runs out of money and can't get a revenue stream going.
05:31:02 <boekabart> try a 64x64 map on hard then, that might actually be a challenge
05:31:17 <boekabart> the AI is terrible, period.
05:31:19 <Jerub> Hard is defiantely a challenge.
05:31:38 <Jerub> even on the 256x512 map I'm on.
05:31:53 <Jerub> took me ages to get enough income to be able to build what I wanted to build.
05:31:57 <boekabart> just make 1 long coal run, it'll supply all the cash you need
05:32:34 <Jerub> boekabart: I ended up with 3 long coal runs. all to the same power station.
05:32:43 <staniel> technically if you think about it though
05:33:00 <staniel> about the planes speed, it shouldn't be able to travel the same speed as a road vehicle
05:33:34 <staniel> with the curve of the earth, and the altitude that planes fly at....
05:33:40 <staniel> makes it a much greater distance
05:33:48 <staniel> then just doing the same stretch on flat land
05:34:02 <boekabart> the scale in openttd isn't and will never be 'realistic'
05:34:25 <staniel> ahh, but that could have nbeen the original idea
05:34:38 <Jerub> Road vehicles are super frustrating.k
05:34:42 <boekabart> you can come close by making a scenario of say your province, where you can get a 10 to 25 meter-per-square scale
05:34:50 <Jerub> at least you can build multiple stations and join them in openttd
05:34:59 <boekabart> max 51x51 km on 2048x2048 map
05:35:42 <Jerub> I mean multiple bus depots
05:35:57 <boekabart> Jerub: no you don't, bus stops you mean
05:36:04 <boekabart> 51km -> and then you shouldn't use planes on a map that size :(
05:37:43 <Jerub> bus loading bay, that's it.
05:38:06 <Jerub> I sometimes use lorrys to take goods from a factory to a town that's close by.
05:38:20 <Jerub> but the only positive benefit is it makes the town grow faster, it doesn't net me anything.
05:40:17 <boekabart> costs you headaches. better transport the goods across the map to a far away city by trains. $$!
05:40:51 <Jerub> on hard, breakdowns are so frequent :(
05:42:09 <Jerub> makes it interesting though.
05:42:23 <boekabart> you need 4 line mainlines
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05:42:29 <Jerub> you have to design train systems with the idea that you will need to route around trains.
05:42:56 <boekabart> and 4 line mainlines suck without PDS
05:43:23 <Jerub> I think I have YPF on...
05:43:30 <boekabart> it's not there anymore
05:43:50 <boekabart> was never implemented for YAPF and for NPF they say it was buggy
05:44:07 <boekabart> actually it did crash trains once in a while when editing the network. totally realistic, IMHO :)
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06:52:59 <marius-> uhm, what's the advantage of the signs with "plates" on them? :>
06:54:29 <marius-> not too pro explanation i guess :F
06:54:44 <marius-> the advanced train-signals :p
06:58:03 <boekabart> marius-: there is a good article on the wiki.openttd.org about pre-signals
06:59:35 <Jerub> there are signals, entry, combo and exit signals
06:59:48 <Jerub> entry signals are only green if one of the exit signals are green.
07:00:09 <Jerub> combo signals are exit signals at the same time as being entry signals.
07:00:11 <boekabart> (for example: a train won't try to enter the station until one platform is empty
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07:01:39 <Jerub> boekabart: I am curious about one thing with pre signals.
07:02:21 <Jerub> I have situations where I have a platform with multiple tracks, and I want a train to wait at the entry until there is a platform free.
07:03:26 <Jerub> {one way entry presignal} -> 4 {two way exit signals}
07:03:39 <Jerub> then have a single normal 1 way signal for exiting the station.
07:19:48 <Biff> Jerub: that sounds correct
07:24:22 <Jerub> Biff: what does it do? go red when the station is full?
07:24:53 <boekabart> it ignores the normal sing
07:25:15 <boekabart> only = green when at least 1 EXIT (white vertical panel) signal is green
07:25:56 <Jerub> what happens when there are no exit signals? always green?
07:26:13 <boekabart> i have no idea, but i think always green
07:26:32 <boekabart> well not always, i think: behave like normal signal
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08:36:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9907 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Codechange: prepare the road gui for more road types.
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08:53:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9908 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp station.h station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: prepare the station picker for more road types.
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09:24:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9909 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9897): Highlight road tunnels properly when building them.
09:31:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9910 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: prepare road building/removing commands for more road types.
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10:52:22 <hylje> i just visited the uitp conf
10:52:49 <Sionide> Rubidium, more road types eh? sounds interesting..
10:53:13 <Sionide> is there a topic on this?
10:53:38 <skidd13> I think it's because of trams.
10:55:29 <skidd13> There was a tram patch a while ago. I think one of the devs has taken the job to complet it.
10:56:51 <hylje> i believe more road types can get in later on
10:57:07 <hylje> but for true road simulation we need gneric traffic
10:58:04 <skidd13> How far are the new industries? Tourists are working already :)
10:59:01 <Rubidium> using statistics (like Wolf01 did) I estimate summer 2008
10:59:25 <hylje> just in time for starcraft 2
10:59:41 <Maedhros> tourists are generated by houses, so they have nothing to do with industries :)
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11:04:20 <skidd13> What are the opinions of the dev's regarding my "new orders window" patch?
11:07:48 <Maedhros> in my personal opinion, i far prefer text buttons to images
11:09:27 <Rubidium> imo the buttons aren't more clear than the current text.
11:10:19 <skidd13> OK, I'll think over new icons.
11:11:16 <Rubidium> and the (extra) non-stop stuff doesn't get very clear either (adding go directly and 'stop everywhere')
11:13:39 <Rubidium> I'd say about that: remove the ttdp non-stop handling and have "go to" (normal behaviour), "go directly to" (don't stop at intermediate stations), "go via" (normal behaviour, but don't stop at the "via" station), "go directly via" (don't stop at intermediate and the "via" station)
11:14:44 <boekabart> allthough go via (don't stop there but do stop at every other station on the way) is very weird)
11:15:16 <skidd13> Rubidium: Yes, sounds good. I'll give that a go.
11:16:37 <peter1138> go directly to == non-stop!
11:16:42 <peter1138> you will not change my non-stop
11:17:15 <peter1138> boekabart: "go via" is ttdp style non-stop :/
11:17:25 <boekabart> peter1138: but admit that the current naming isn't always clear to the end user... maybe change the titles?
11:17:28 <peter1138> normal non-stop confuses some people who don't know what it means...
11:17:39 <boekabart> exactly my point :)
11:17:42 <peter1138> non-stop is perfectly fine for native english speakers
11:17:48 <peter1138> whatever it gets translated to i don't care ;)
11:17:52 <boekabart> non-stop , don't stop
11:18:23 <boekabart> i have no idea actually which is 'non-stop' and which is "don't stop"
11:19:04 <skidd13> I changed the naming because of the equal named patch one. Just a WIP.
11:19:04 <Rubidium> well, I don't care whether it's "non-stop" or "directly" and I'm not native English
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11:20:19 <boekabart> no, non-stop is OK, but sometimes it means "don't stop" apparently ( Rubidium calls this via up there ).
11:20:56 <Rubidium> well, that's the problem with non-stop, it could also mean don't stop at the destination 'station'
11:21:26 <boekabart> no, it can't mean that . in english. but in openttd sometimes it does.
11:21:51 <Rubidium> non-stop in ttdp means don't stop at the destination 'station' (IIRC)
11:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> i would totally misunderstand the word "via"
11:22:44 <boekabart> but you're not native english :)
11:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> <boekabart> actually it did crash trains once in a while when editing the network. totally realistic, IMHO :) <- PBS was rejected because it crashed trains WITHOUT editing the network.
11:23:45 <Noldo> To Joensuu via Kouvola and Lappeenranta
11:24:36 <Noldo> would mean that the final destination is Joensuu but it stops in Kouvola and Lappeenranta which are on the way
11:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is exactly what i would read, too, but that is not the intended meaning here
11:25:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> here it would mean "treat Kouvola and Lappeenranta as waypoints (don't stop there)"
11:27:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> and i predict that a million other users will misinterpret it the same way
11:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> "pass through $STATION", i could live with that
11:29:52 <hylje> well that's settled then
11:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> "Vorsicht auf Gleis 3, eine Durchfahrt"
11:32:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> [typical announcement on a german station]
11:32:37 <boekabart> Eddi|zuHause3: re pbs: still, realistic :)
11:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> but the game is not supposed to be realistic :p
11:33:40 <boekabart> anyway.... it's gone for now
11:34:30 <hylje> the game is business simulation
11:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, the game is transport simulation
11:35:38 <boekabart> yeah... in real life, it matters very much whether coal is delivered within 1 or 4 days... not
11:35:58 <boekabart> i don't like the fact that speed is of so much relevance when transporting coal.
11:36:26 <boekabart> for passengers, goods, yes. but raws... neh
11:37:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> i agree, raw freight should have practically no time dependence
11:37:28 <hylje> warehousing! supply and demand!
11:37:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> so you could order a freight train to wait on a track, and let a express passenger train pass it
11:39:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
11:41:35 <boekabart> well better.. and with existing sprites
11:41:46 <skidd13> I've to go back to wok. cya
11:42:54 <hylje> i take it we can't tint the tiles darker depending on depth?
11:43:25 <boekabart> in a perfect 32bpp world, of course we can :)
11:43:58 <boekabart> well actually we can, but we need to add the darker water sprite then; and the edges will look... eh.
11:44:11 <boekabart> and I'm not sure if the palette has deeper blues
11:44:39 <boekabart> note that that shot is with transparency on; without it just looks all the same
11:44:44 <hylje> maybe add that to the todo when we have proper 32bit
11:45:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> boekabart: can the grid be finer and extend over all (sea) water?
11:46:38 <boekabart> finer: needs new sprites. extend all over: yes, but I chose not to do that :)
11:47:02 <boekabart> I used the normal 'selection' sprites
11:47:13 <boekabart> with 'transparency' palette modifier
11:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i figured...
11:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> i just really dislike it this way...
11:49:26 <boekabart> did you see it before
11:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> the last transparent water i saw was with the brown ground sprites
11:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> i believe the ground sprites and grid sprites should generally be separated
11:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> so you can turn the complete grid on and off like a transparency effect
11:57:24 <boekabart> Eddi|zuHause3: good plan :)
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11:59:02 <peter1138> boekabart: now that is an interesting way of doing it
12:00:00 <boekabart> i've been playing with ways to do it for hours
12:00:07 <boekabart> this came out the best :)
12:00:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, the thought is good, but the result is "improveable" :)
12:00:21 <boekabart> better with thinner lines i guess
12:01:01 <peter1138> possibly with lines across the half slopes too
12:01:25 <peter1138> how many are needed? one of each tileh (er, Slope) i guess
12:01:48 <hylje> actually i think the grid should "float" at sealevel while the terrain is shown as water tiles
12:02:23 <boekabart> hylje: tried that, not as nice.
12:02:42 <boekabart> actually i can't find tiles that look OK. only bare_land is somehow accetable.
12:03:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you plan to extend the grid thing to land tiles, maybe a different line for each tile edge (two per tile) might be better
12:03:32 <peter1138> nah, draw all edges
12:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> so a half-slope coast tile could have different colours for the land part and the water part
12:03:51 <peter1138> but it can be a dotted line, such that when two edges are joined it looks like a single line
12:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> why all edges? the two other edges will be drawn with the neigbouring tiles
12:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think there's an 'h' missing :p
12:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> english has totally weird spelling
12:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> nothing is spelt like it is spoken
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12:22:58 <Jerub> I want to fund a water tower, but I can't seem to be able to
12:23:23 <Jerub> also, the message I get when I try to place it on a town building is "too close to another industry" which is a bit confusing too
12:25:06 <peter1138> yeah, it needs to be built *on* a building... for some reason
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12:28:07 <Jerub> so I had to build it on the far side of the town to the nearest other water tower
12:30:30 <Jerub> and the water well I chose was of course the lowest producing one on the map
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12:40:35 <Biff> i get textures from the small airport on the intercontinental
12:46:58 <peter1138> that's because the sprites are reused
12:50:21 <boekabart> Is the following by design: when I build canals in scenario editor, they cannot be deleted (or overbuilt by dock/locks) in the game.
12:50:51 <boekabart> This is a result of a change sometime in the past, where canals got owner_none instead of owner_water, when built in scenario editor
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12:54:20 * boekabart hates his PC, rebooted twice in 15 minutes. hard.
12:54:26 <boekabart> and yes it's a window PC.
12:54:55 <boekabart> but I'm sure that has nothing to do with it
12:56:04 <boekabart> did I miss the answer to my question?
12:57:39 <boekabart> i'll keep waiting for it then ;)
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13:30:42 <peter1138> you're a legend now, boekabart :)
13:31:39 <boekabart> i'd rather become a legend by making 32bpp or pbs. This is too easy :)
13:32:53 <TrueBrain> I rather just see a high amount of money wired to my account :p
13:33:13 <hylje> make it work and go do 32bpp for kewl water transparency and tinting effects
13:33:54 <boekabart> Actually, I made a 32bpp thing just to be abel to do cool effects
13:34:02 <boekabart> (search forum for them)
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13:37:55 <boekabart> that was a fast sqrt!
13:38:17 <boekabart> actually it must mean Osai==1 :)
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13:43:07 <Biff> any reason why news that one ignores should be stored?
13:43:26 <peter1138> so you can go back and look at it
13:43:29 <peter1138> it still happened...
13:43:39 <Biff> i dont want that to happen
13:43:51 <Biff> it makes the backlog unusable for me
13:44:23 <Biff> on a large map, there is so much spam, that its not practical to have everything there
13:45:35 <Biff> well, i patched it so they dont come up. but if people want it then its no use
13:45:46 <Biff> maybe it could be configured
13:46:13 <Belugas> so basically, you would like to have the message history being filtered by messages that you turned off in message settings, if i read you well
13:46:26 <Biff> Belugas: yes, thats what i did
13:47:21 <boekabart> make it a checkbox in the bottom, and done you are!
13:47:37 <boekabart> it'll make you a legend, probably... :)
13:47:40 <Biff> well, i did it in two ways, first i did it so it doesnt show the messages, but i think my last solution just to drop the messages are just as good
13:47:54 <Biff> i just fixed something that annoyed me
13:48:11 * boekabart the legend is going to fight traffic once again.
13:49:34 <Biff> but do people really go back in old news that they have filtered?
13:53:35 <Biff> maybe i should use the forum or something
14:10:13 <Belugas> personnally, i'll prefer to be able to toggle it on and off.
14:10:48 <Belugas> the reasons why some messages are not interesting at one point may not be tru latter in the game.
14:11:17 <Belugas> so having the option to go back is something to consider, imho
14:11:23 <Biff> true, but the message capacity is a bit limited
14:12:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> you might make that limit a little more dynamic while you are there :p
14:12:22 <Biff> maybe something like, shift click on the back log to see all types of messages
14:12:36 <Biff> Eddi|zuHause3: hehe, yeah
14:12:47 <Biff> the news-items doesnt take all that much ram ;)
14:13:30 <Biff> #define MAX_NEWS 30 is the current setting
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14:14:49 <Biff> maybe it should be a linked list
14:15:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> linked lists are cache nightmares
14:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> because basically every time you go list.next, you get a cache miss
14:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> this rarely happens if you use dynamic arrays
14:18:01 <Noldo> array that grows in size when needed
14:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, like: if (array is full) { create new array of double size; copy existing entries}
14:19:05 <Biff> Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, but isnt that also quite slow?
14:19:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you do not have the luxury of a garbage collection, add "clear old array"
14:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> Biff: no, because the memory is one block, you get harldy any cache misses when you iterate through the array
14:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> that can't be good :p
14:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> reminds me of some old games
14:22:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> with 320x200 resolution
14:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> i believe EGA had a mode with 64 colours
14:28:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> i heard the real gurus could switch palettes in the middle of the screen :)
14:37:02 <peter1138> more commonly done on 8bit computers
14:37:19 <peter1138> on the fly resolution switching too
14:37:47 <peter1138> it is quite troublesome for emulators...
14:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, it's a feature long forgotten in the 32bit days :)
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14:57:04 <Belugas> kaan, comment style wise : if comment is on its own line, without any code on it, please use /* blabla */
14:57:16 <Belugas> the // stuff is only used at the end of code line
14:57:46 <Belugas> although it's not like that everywhere, let's say we are trying to make the base code compliant
14:59:15 <kaan> ok, ill change that then, im not that attached to // :)
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15:21:53 <peter1138> i'm reworking it anyway
15:22:05 <peter1138> you seem to have a penchant for deleting spacing lines though
15:22:53 <peter1138> bool VehicleNeedsService(const Vehicle *v)
15:23:25 <peter1138> but don't worry about it
15:25:25 <Belugas> most of the time, users do not look at their patch before publishing it. and even after :)
15:26:00 <glx> even when you point out the "style" problems and unneded changes
15:26:17 <kaan> heh, i did read it and notice the -} +} but i couldnt for my life find it and correct it
15:26:50 <glx> the diff tells you where it is
15:27:04 <kaan> maybe i should enable line numbering :P
15:27:26 <glx> you don't have a "goto line" command?
15:27:47 <kaan> who knows, MSVS is a big program
15:30:00 <glx> ctrl-r ctrl-w is useful too
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15:52:11 <peter1138> can't get non-front to break down :-(
15:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> !whatareyoutryingtodo
15:59:54 <TinoM> ah, sorry, wrong channel ;)
16:07:52 <kaan> peter, it is useful to reenable black smoke on secondary to verify breakdowns
16:08:13 <kaan> eighter that or you could disable service on secondary and then go look it up later
16:08:20 <MeusH> how about other projects?
16:08:58 <TrueBrain> or rather: depends on who you ask :p
16:09:13 <TrueBrain> if you ask my roommates, they would agree with you, as it means I have more time for them :p
16:09:23 <kaan> well, if you refer to the sudden slowness of the head rev then its not too good
16:11:03 *** |Jeroen| has joined #openttd
16:11:07 <TrueBrain> for who ever is using git, we have some bad news, we are currently reimporting the whole SVN; make sure to make good backups of your git, and reclone/rebase when we are done :p
16:13:45 <Biff> hmmm, is there a way to list industries by type?
16:13:55 <TrueBrain> click on the sort buttons
16:14:40 <Biff> oh, just found the list industries window
16:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> there should be filter buttons as well
16:16:28 <Biff> 2048*2048 is a bit too big for me
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16:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> just use the new "really extremely few industries" setting :)
16:18:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> i should try a trunk game again, and constantly bitch about the lack of PBS :p
16:18:38 <Biff> oh, is there something like that?
16:18:59 <Belugas> bitching? yes, constantly :P
16:19:28 <Biff> no, i meant really extreme few industries
16:20:39 <Belugas> cannot go lower than that, sorry. The other option is no industries, and you watch them get built overtime
16:21:21 <Belugas> but be aware that the whle industry chain will not be available as a sudden...
16:21:44 <Belugas> like factories without farms and steel mills,
16:22:00 <Belugas> or steel mills without iron ore mines...
16:23:03 <Belugas> pretty amusing :) you're stuck at building up your network for passengers/mail only
16:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's like you're starting in 1800 or so :)
16:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> is the last DBSetXL release really 2 years old?
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16:28:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DorpsGek
16:34:28 <peter1138> vista business edition in qemu = fail
16:35:26 *** glx|away has joined #openttd
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16:36:53 <SpComb> is buisness edition expensive enough to be legally used in a virtual machine?
16:39:44 <peter1138> hmm, seems to do more when starting it manually (rather than using qemu-launcher)
16:39:54 <boekabart> any can be used legally AS a vm os
16:39:59 <boekabart> just might not be supported
16:40:06 <Sionide> SpComb, shit hardware though..
16:40:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> [2]+ Speicherzugriffsfehler bin/openttd (wd: ~/spiele/OpenTTD)
16:40:24 <SpComb> Sionide: Dell provides linux support for said hardware, though
16:40:26 <SpComb> which is quite something
16:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> (i was closing the newgrf window on the main menu)
16:40:37 <peter1138> Speicherzugriffsfehler? :p
16:41:03 <Sionide> ♫♪♩♬ Air Traffic - Charlotte
16:41:08 <peter1138> SpComb: heh, i just installed 7.04 the other day. works nicely
16:41:33 <SpComb> peter1138: I'm planning on installing 7.04 some day, once I feel like booting out of windows
16:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> (this probalby translates as "segmentation fault")
16:41:47 <peter1138> but my winxp partition won't boot in qemu either :(
16:44:15 <peter1138> hmm, vmware-player maybe...
16:44:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think i can reproduce this
16:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> start game, open newgrf window, add grf, refresh list, choose a grf, add it, close newgrf window
16:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> can anyone confirm this?
16:45:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think it works with any grf
16:47:25 <peter1138> doesn't happen every time though
16:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have tried it multiple times, it crashes differently each time
16:49:28 <peter1138> ok, vmware-player is crap
16:50:26 <Wolf01> i agree, the workstation is really better :P
16:51:53 <peter1138> my win xp stuff only gets to Mup.sys :(
16:53:01 <hylje> tt-forums finally got rid of that extra slash ?
16:55:56 <boekabart> You actually like those golden canals!?
16:56:53 <boekabart> yes they are supposed to look like riverbanks
16:57:00 <boekabart> :) placeholders of course
16:57:28 *** peterbrett has joined #openttd
16:57:46 <Wolf01> yes, they are cool, maybe with a copper color to seem more like bricks (the grey seem stone) they may look better, but i like the transparent water more :D
17:03:13 *** glx|away is now known as glx
17:07:52 <peter1138> rivers have bricks around them?
17:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe italian rivers :p
17:09:24 <Wolf01> sometimes they have brick wharfs in cities
17:09:47 *** Sacro|Laptop has joined #openttd
17:10:17 <hylje> maybe urban towns should have them
17:10:24 <hylje> but outside urban area basic banks
17:11:31 *** skidd13 has joined #openttd
17:13:04 <Thomas[NL]> you can make these brick-r wharfs by building a road on the slope :)
17:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> he's talking about rivers, they should not have the need for slopes
17:16:20 <elmex> does transfer&full load make any senes?
17:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> not much, because you'll be picking up the cargo you just left there
17:19:14 <elmex> ok, following setup: station B is built near a ore mine and it also gets transfered ore from elsewhere. so the transferd cargo and the cargo produced by the nearby industry mixes
17:19:28 <elmex> will that result in a bug?
17:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, it might work meanwhile
17:20:32 <elmex> would it work in 0.5.1?
17:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> it used to not work, but someone did a transfer fix
17:20:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> i just don't know how far that fix went
17:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> it should be in 0.5.1
17:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> who can i beat senseless for the translation of the town road options?!?
17:29:41 <peter1138> they're not especially good in english ;p
17:30:22 <Maedhros> pfft, you know where to find them :p
17:35:30 <kaan> is there any documentation to adding new strings to the lang files?
17:35:32 *** Brianetta has joined #openttd
17:38:02 <skidd13> Is it possible to set a param to a string who is already set by a param?
17:41:26 *** Desolator has joined #openttd
17:41:38 <Desolator> can anyone help me with sourceforge?
17:42:55 <Belugas> skidd13 : i don't get exactly what you mean
17:44:04 <skidd13> It's hard to describe it for me. I'll post a patch in my order window topic.
17:45:52 *** Thomas[NL] has joined #openttd
17:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> why does my self compiled openttd not have an openttd icon anymore?
17:50:20 <Belugas> skidd13, where/what should i look for?
17:52:09 <skidd13> If I try to use this. The build crashes with "!invalid string id 0 in GetString". It seems the SetDParam(2, * and SetDParam(3, * are not accepted.
17:54:02 <skidd13> A scenario: 1, STR_ORDER_GO_TO ; 2, STR_ORDER_TARGET_STATION ; 3, Station A ; 4, STR_EMPTY ; 5, STR_ORDER_ACTION_FULL_LOAD
17:56:47 <Rubidium> in that case {STRING1} has to read 2 strings, when it can only read one, so the {STRING} becomes STR_EMPTY
17:57:05 *** Thomas[NL] has joined #openttd
17:58:36 <Biff> hmm, weird, did ./configure and make instead of building deb package, and now openttd doesnt read the home dir
18:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> by default, openttd reads the binary dir, i believe
18:00:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can change the paths where it searches for the config file with configure
18:00:25 <Biff> yeah, i saw --personal-dir
18:00:37 <Biff> but it should search in the users home folder
18:00:55 <Biff> the normal deb-package of openttd does that
18:01:09 <Biff> ~ is not the home folder of every user
18:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> ~ is the home folder of the user that is logged in
18:01:33 <Desolator> can anyone help me with sourceforge?
18:01:35 <Biff> it will be expanded by bash, to /home/myuser/.openttd
18:01:46 <Biff> then noone else can use it
18:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> then bash will not expand anything
18:02:13 <Maedhros> i have a suspicion that openttd will have a fit if it sees that
18:02:15 <Biff> you cant do fopen("~/something") in c
18:02:17 <Rubidium> just use --personal-dir=".openttd"
18:02:46 <Rubidium> it's just the directory name for *in* the home directory
18:04:11 <Biff> hmm, still it uses bin folder
18:06:19 <Biff> maybe it will only work when i use enable-install
18:07:29 <Rubidium> Biff: it should work (it did recompile OTTD, right?)
18:07:54 <Biff> i did ./configure --personal-dir=.openttd; make clean && make
18:11:30 <Rubidium> Biff: try removing openttd.cfg from the binary dir and then start OTTD again (it might think: the directory is missing but I found the .cfg here, so take this dir)
18:12:04 *** Desolator has joined #openttd
18:12:55 <Biff> seems it only respects personal-dir when its installed or something
18:13:50 <Rubidium> hmm, that seems to be true
18:14:12 <Biff> ok, guess i'll just symlink in the files then
18:14:24 <Rubidium> just move line 920 of config.lib to line 924
18:15:35 <Biff> glad it only takes 30 or so seconds to compile
18:17:10 <Biff> i propose that should be the standard :P
18:19:46 *** dihedral has joined #openttd
18:20:36 <Rubidium> Biff: the problem is that the default --personal-dir isn't an empty string
18:21:17 <Rubidium> no, it's .openttd by default, but only when you 'enable' installation
18:21:29 * peter1138 ponders going back to work where it's nice & cool
18:21:42 <peter1138> kaan: ah... hehe, that's why you need to disable black smoke ;)
18:22:39 <Biff> yes, i see the problem now
18:31:45 <Ailure> how did whispers in IRC look now
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18:42:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i still can't get openttd to use the icon
18:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> it works with miniin, so it's probably a makefile rewrite thing
18:43:59 <Wolf01> is possible to see the map size ingame?
18:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> query-tool on the lowest tile?
18:45:44 <Sacro|Laptop> Eddi|zuHause3: use the icon... how?
18:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> in the title bar of the window, and the task bar
18:47:31 <Sacro|Laptop> hmm, i got the icon in my gnome menu
18:50:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> not the menu (where you start programs), in the task bar, or window list (where the running programs are listed)
18:50:50 <peter1138> then i don't see how the makefile rewrite is relevant
18:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> it shows a default "X" icon now
18:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> the file was moved
18:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe some path was not updated
18:52:00 <peter1138> media/openttd.32.bmp
18:52:03 <Wolf01> would be cool if the map size is wrote in the minimap title bar
18:52:40 <peter1138> put that in your bin folder (so it's bin/media/openttd.32.bmp)
18:56:34 *** Thomas[NL] has joined #openttd
18:56:59 <Sacro|Laptop> that aint in the LSB is it?
18:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> yay, that works :)
18:59:06 <peter1138> i dunno, normally you'd embed an xpm
19:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01: why? i told you how to find out
19:00:00 <peter1138> who writes this crap...
19:00:36 <Wolf01> because is nicer than query the game
19:01:12 <Desolator> can anyone help me with sourceforge?
19:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01: "patch map_x" on the console
19:04:57 <Wolf01> i know, but i want to see the game telling me the map sizes, map climate and my birth day on the minimap title :D
19:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... there are no ships available in 1920...
19:09:45 <hylje> Wolf01: i was expecting a totatally elaborate hill in the middle of nowhere
19:09:56 <hylje> but thats totally a lot of transmitters
19:10:51 <Wolf01> and seem to not be the only one...
19:11:44 *** skidd13 is now known as Skidd13|away
19:13:33 <Wolf01> do you want the savegame?
19:13:40 <kaan> peter1138: yeas the black smoke looks kind of lost sitting there on the tracks by itself :P
19:20:16 <peter1138> i wonder if it's "emulatable" with the normal smoke and a colour map
19:33:12 *** Thomas[NL] has joined #openttd
19:36:40 <Wolf01> what is the console command for setting the town road layout? i can't find it with list_patches
19:39:08 <Skidd13|away> Wolf01: patch town_layout $number
19:39:37 *** Skidd13|away is now known as Skidd13
19:48:16 <marius-> anyone feel like starting a new game with me, coop company? :>
19:50:05 <Haclet> Hey guy's ... Could you tell me how can I use svn to update with expected revison? I tried connect today Windows wersion with Linux - but I had Version Mismatch, and I need my snv version go back to 0.5.2.RC-1?
19:50:37 *** Thomas[NL] has joined #openttd
19:50:50 *** Thomas[NL] has joined #openttd
19:50:50 <Rubidium> then you have to checkout tags/0.5.2-RC1 (revision doesn't matter) and not trunk
19:51:09 <Bjarni> just download the source tarball if you want a stable release
19:51:29 <Haclet> sorki - could you write me command (as example)
19:51:47 <Bjarni> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/0.5.2-RC1
19:52:03 <Bjarni> followed by what you want to call your own dir
19:52:03 <Haclet> ooo - is drfrent like cvs ... ....
19:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> with tags it should usually suffice to do "svn export"
19:52:29 <Bjarni> you could also use export instead of checkout (co), then it will not generate the .svn dir
19:53:19 <Haclet> nothing is changing :)
19:53:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> that won't work like this :p
19:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> go into a new directory
19:54:33 <Haclet> Eddi|zuHause3: and HOW - in CVS you can write: cvs up -r 1232 and all files will be replaced by this revison - and I know svn is more better - but I have no idea how can I do that
19:54:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> and type exactly the command Bjarni told
19:55:11 <Rubidium> Haclet: 0.5.2-RC1 isn't based on trunk, it's based on a branch (and it even isn't a specific version of that branch)
19:55:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> in svn you have branches, r1232 of trunk is not the same as r1232 of 0.5 branch
19:56:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can do "svn switch <URL>", but i would not recommend that
19:56:52 <Haclet> thank you - I'll try letter - I have to go now.
19:57:02 <glx> <Eddi|zuHause3> you can do "svn switch <URL>", but i would not recommend that <-- agreed (bad things can happen)
19:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i get wagons spontaneously disappearing...
20:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> but only when passing certain tiles
20:00:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> looks like only tiles of the form (1024+a)x(a) are affected (i have tracks through two of those)
20:05:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: what's your map size?
20:05:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> 512x2048, i think
20:05:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> or the other way round
20:06:29 <Bjarni> I can see America just woke up
20:06:32 <Bjarni> I started getting spam
20:07:01 <Bjarni> I didn't get any spam all day, so I wondered if my new spam filter worked or not. Now I can see that it really works
20:07:20 <Bjarni> I guess that was the first time ever that I wanted to get spam :p
20:08:30 <Bjarni> btw I don't want any more spam. The test is over.. don't get any funny ideas :p
20:10:17 <Wolf01> i receive about 14 messages of spam @day, normally i receive 1 or two
20:13:56 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: well, i can't replicate
20:22:02 <Wolf01> is the "pause on no clients" feature available on standard dedicated server or only with autopilot?
20:22:21 <peter1138> though it's "min_players"
20:22:47 <Wolf01> so if 0 the game is paused
20:23:15 <Wolf01> but the dedicated didn't tell me that the game is paused
20:29:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, if you set min_players=0, it gets never paused
20:29:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> set it =1, so if you have <1 player, it gets paused
20:33:13 <Wolf01> server_bind_ip and connect_to_ip should be specified?
20:33:54 <glx> server_bind_ip only if the server has many ip
20:34:04 <XeryusTC> server_bind_ip forces to listen on only 1 port or sth
20:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Muenchen%20Transport,%2019.%20Jan%201930-a.png
20:53:14 <Bjarni> hiding when somebody wants to take a picture
20:53:19 <Bjarni> just like a little kid
20:53:28 <Bjarni> I bet you told it to do so :p
20:54:11 <Bjarni> we can't take those screenshots seriously. They aren't made with a human readable language :p
20:55:26 * Bjarni wonders if peter1138 thought that he was serious
20:55:43 <Bjarni> it's more interesting to actually hear how you manage to hide the cars
20:56:03 <SpComb> does cloaking your cars cost extra energy?
20:56:11 <peter1138> Bjarni: why not scroll back to about an hour ago
20:57:38 <Bjarni> SpComb: most likely. And they can't move at full speed while cloaked :p
20:57:58 <Bjarni> peter1138: an hour ago... that was the transmitter hill screenshot :/
20:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> 1024+246=1270 (says bc, if anyone doubts my calculation skills)
20:58:24 <Belugas> [15:58] <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i get wagons spontaneously disappearing...
20:58:24 <Belugas> [15:58] <Eddi|zuHause3> but only when passing certain tiles
20:58:30 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: no, i misinterpreted it, that'sall :)
21:08:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r9911 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files): (log message trimmed)
21:08:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-05-24 23:07:47
21:08:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: american - 2 fixed by WhiteRabbit (2)
21:08:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 9 fixed by tucalipe (9)
21:08:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 30 fixed by thetitan (30)
21:08:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 34 fixed by Hadez (34)
21:08:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 fixed by habell (2)
21:33:43 <Jerub> adding a train to take goods from a oil refinery to a town already on your network, and that train brings in a profit of > it's cost in the first trip
21:46:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9912 /trunk/src/ai/ (default/default.cpp trolly/build.cpp trolly/pathfinder.cpp): -Fix: the AIs could build any road(station)s.
21:47:55 <staniel> Jerub: thats why its called 'goods'
21:48:24 <Sionide> tomorrow could be r10000 !
21:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have never seen 80 commits in one day :p
21:50:23 <staniel> goods is like sex, better after it has been refined
21:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> well... even if you get up to 10 commits a day (today were 7), you still have over a week, Sionide...
21:50:58 <Sionide> we should have an irc party.
21:51:56 <staniel> speaking of that, where is she
21:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> "she" == "miss .jpg" or "miss inflated doll"?
21:57:28 <staniel> no she = a girl I knew from high school who is recently single
21:59:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9913 /trunk/docs/ (landscape.html landscape_grid.html): -Update: the landscape documentation to reflect the changes to the road bits.
22:00:38 <elmex> hmmm, some clients connecting to my servr seem to have problems, and the server said something about raising net_frame_freq
22:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> the higher net_frame_freq, the lower the used bandwidth
22:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you also get higher "lag"
22:02:17 <elmex> the server has a pretty broad line
22:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's two-way traffic
22:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> some readme once said you should not set it above 3
22:03:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> or the game gets practically unplayable
22:03:34 <Rubidium> elmex: for the client the download speed matters in the begin, for the server the upload speed matters
22:03:35 <elmex> hmm, yes, 23 makes it a bit sloppy
22:04:01 <elmex> hmm, well, i've had problems with someone trying to connect and somehow it took quite long for him
22:04:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, on connection he has to download the entire savegame
22:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> which can be several MB for large maps
22:06:34 <elmex> it's just 1.2mb and at least the servers upstream wasnt used my. well. whatever. maybe adjusting net_frame_freq helped. will found out tomorrow
22:08:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, after the initial savegame, traffic is like 3kb/s, if you set net_frame_freq to 3, it should be like 1/3rd that, so 1kb/s
22:09:31 <elmex> well, the servers line has a capacity around 90kb/sec upstream
22:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, but if the other guy has modem, or other programs running (like filesharing) ...
22:10:44 <elmex> yes, thats propably the problem
22:11:24 <elmex> heh, continuing save games on a different server is really a cool functionlity
22:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, you can continue autosaves on your local computer and stuff
22:16:24 <elmex> hm, i've had a weird effect iwth an autosave on my dedicated server. when i loaded the autosave it became a temperate climate (instead of subtropical which the game was originally)
22:16:38 <elmex> when loading a non-autosave savegame it gets the climate right
22:42:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9914 /trunk/src/ (32 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: prepare GTTS and the pathfinders to handle multiple road types on a single tile.
22:42:55 <elmex> hm,a ny way to configure the server after the config of a savegame?
22:44:48 <Rubidium> patches are configurable via rcon or from the console
22:45:26 <Rubidium> the other settings aren't changable in a dedicated server
22:46:04 <elmex> well, i don't want to set them patch by patch,i mainly want to get the whole config from a savegame. the problem i have is basically: the server loads a savegame of different config than the one in openttd.cfg and when saving it sets the climate to something else an such stuff
22:47:37 <Rubidium> the climate of a saved game shouldn't change when a cfg is changed
22:48:37 <elmex> well, i did this: saved a online game with climate subtropic and loaded it on my server with 'openttd -D -g save/a.sav'
22:49:01 <elmex> but when i laod the autosaves then
22:49:05 <elmex> the climate is temperate
22:49:11 <elmex> (as set in the openttd.cfg of the server)
22:49:31 <peter1138> then the autosaves are of a different game
22:49:59 <elmex> heh, they are not,the network is eactly the same
22:50:06 <elmex> only that there is snow instead of desert
22:50:23 <elmex> that could be the snowline eh?
22:52:49 <elmex> that would still be a bug then... weird
22:54:33 <elmex> well 'nice' but it's not what i want :)
22:54:44 <elmex> yea, and temperate trees
23:00:05 <elmex> it's like the server merges the settings from openttd.cfg with the ones of the loaded savegame when saving
23:08:08 <elmex> the problem seems to exist only with autosaves
23:20:28 <elmex> can't reproduce it with other savegames
23:20:34 <elmex> only with that special one
23:30:25 <elmex> i guess the problem was some wierd interaction with reset_game_year and the servers config file ;-/
23:32:43 *** Brianetta has left #openttd
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