IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2007-04-20
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07:03:58 <ln-> don't tell me there's still 30°C in germany?
07:04:45 <SpComb> there was 30°C here on the 14th
07:05:39 <ln-> and 50°C here last summer, but let's not count the cases when the sun hits the sensor.
07:07:13 <roboman> is there such thing as diagonal bridges?
07:07:31 <ln-> have you ever seen a diagonal bridge in real life?
07:08:11 <roboman> I read someone said it in a thread
07:08:32 <roboman> I assume they meant bridges over everythin
07:14:24 <roboman> although IRL it depends what you call diagonal as RL isnt bound by square boxes
07:30:22 <peter1138> bit slow there roboman :p
07:41:13 <boekabart_> why would diagonal bridges not exist in real life? isn't every fly-over a diagonal bridge?
07:42:43 <Rubidium> or, when it is actually true, we support (some) diagonal bridges in OTTD
07:49:19 <peter1138> boekabart_: IRL, bridges are just bridges...
07:51:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9682 /trunk/src/ (saveload.cpp saveload.h): -Codechange: Add support for saving/loading std::lists containing object references (REF_*)
07:51:39 <boekabart_> lol. anyway: are there any plans for diagonal bridges in ottd?
07:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> i would call that "dream", not "plan"
08:00:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9683 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix [FS#423]: improved loading does not use a huge amount of processing power anymore when having a lot of trains.
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08:59:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> somehow "Taiga" and "Pony" do not really mix...
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09:36:20 <boekabart_> anyone here who knows (a lot) about canals and the map-array?
09:36:46 <boekabart_> Q: wondering what the thing is with ownership: is the owner of a canal tile OWNER_WATER, yes, no or sometimes?
09:44:18 <peter1138> it used to be, but now it's not.
09:45:43 * roboman remembers on Brianetta's Starndard when he went broke and had a cala wit a dock on it that weh deleted caused the city to be submerged
09:46:22 <boekabart_> in the startup game, it still is
09:49:27 <peter1138> boekabart_, yes, because retroactively changing the owner is not really possible
09:49:30 <peter1138> because... you don't know who the owner is...
09:50:27 <boekabart_> i think you can: if owner water and height > 0 shouldn't be owned by water
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09:50:58 <boekabart_> ah , problem is : if not water, then who?
10:00:25 <Rubidium> the person who has paid for making it water
10:01:30 <peter1138> boekabart_, exactly
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10:01:46 <peter1138> Rubidium: yes, but not when converting old games, heh
10:02:47 <Rubidium> nope, then it's always water ;)
10:04:29 <Rubidium> there is no way to know who has paid for those canals (anymore), so it will always suck
10:05:30 <peter1138> i don't generally replay old games...
10:06:38 <boekabart_> well you do every time you start up the game
10:06:52 <peter1138> yeah but who gives a shit about that?
10:07:39 <boekabart_> either no-one or everyone who starts up the game
10:07:48 <peter1138> you don't play it, it just sits there running itself
10:07:52 <boekabart_> so, every recent game has canal owner to someone, not water
10:08:03 <boekabart_> how about canals built in scenario editor?
10:08:33 <peter1138> owner_none probably
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10:14:02 <Rubidium> typically someone from England ;)
10:14:14 <Rubidium> anyway, morning Maedhros
10:15:03 <Maedhros> Rubidium: in r6983, why are vehicles added to the loading_vehicles list in Vehicle::LeaveStation?
10:16:35 <Maedhros> also, v->LeaveStation doesn't seem to be called for aircraft anywhere
10:17:22 <Rubidium> oops ;), Maedhros can you fix it?
10:17:32 <peter1138> .remove(this) i guess
10:17:39 <peter1138> i could but i've got a ton of other changes in there :(
10:21:34 <peter1138> hmm, and do you know where to put LeaveStation for aircraft?
10:22:18 <Maedhros> judging by all the others, it should be at the end of HandleAircraftLoading in aircraft_cmd.cpp
10:22:53 <Maedhros> although i have a feeling more calls need to be added for when vehicles leave the station for other reasons
10:23:10 <Maedhros> like going to the depot, or having the order changed manually
11:06:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9684 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp):
11:06:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix (r9683): Remove vehicles from the station loading list instead of adding
11:06:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: them again when they leave, and add a v->LeaveStation() call for aircraft.
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11:06:40 <Maedhros> as far as i can tell, it's just forcing vehicles to go the depot that doesn't call v->LeaveStation now
11:20:35 <peter1138> skipping does the right thing?
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11:24:06 <Maedhros> it seems to, as does deleting the current order, but i haven't worked out how yet
11:29:03 <Sacro> return 15 + 8 + (tileh == SLOPE_STEEP_W ? 4 : 0
11:32:47 <Brianetta> I have inherited a gold pen
11:33:11 <Rubidium> nice, does it write in gold too?
11:33:22 <Brianetta> It writes in whatever you fill it with
11:33:30 <Brianetta> Currently, blue-black Quink
11:34:03 <Brianetta> It started off black, but apparently it was last filled from two bottles
11:37:23 <Maedhros> i can't think of any other things that cause vehicles to leave stations
11:39:01 <boekabart_> wait, i'll add the diff to the page
11:39:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: maedhros * r9685 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp roadveh_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r9683): Call v->LeaveStation() when a vehicle in a station is sent to a depot.
11:39:20 <peter1138> boekabart_, i think it should raise the tile corners, in the last picture
11:39:33 <peter1138> it looks a bit weird :/
11:39:48 <boekabart_> peter1138: no, tried that, really complicated plus deep sea is cooler.
11:40:01 <peter1138> yeah, i realised that wouldn't allow deep sea :/
11:40:31 <boekabart_> now you're not able to tunnel under deep see, need to raise sea floor 1 level
11:41:05 <peter1138> where's the diff? :p
11:41:33 <boekabart_> so the scenario can have un-tunnable sea (tunnelable after big investment :) ) and tunnelable sea
11:42:08 <peter1138> yeah, what happens when terraforming deep sea?
11:42:36 <boekabart_> nothing at first, only after 2nd level you see it
11:42:39 <Brianetta> It should cost a f***load.
11:42:47 <boekabart_> well it does i guess, let me test
11:42:57 <Brianetta> No, additional f***loads
11:43:10 <Brianetta> Disproportionately expensive job.
11:43:10 <peter1138> problem is it makes the normal sea look totally flat
11:43:25 <peter1138> and the deep sea looks like how it should be normally
11:43:57 <peter1138> is deeper deep sea possible?
11:44:09 <boekabart_> yes, sea level can be raised up to 15
11:45:06 <Brianetta> I think deep floods should propagate more quickly
11:45:06 <Brianetta> If the sea's higher than a polder, rather than level with it, and the dyke breaks... flush!
11:45:06 <boekabart_> Brianetta: should be doable
11:45:29 <Brianetta> boekabart_: With the additional benefit that the hovering sea effect isn't so bad
11:45:33 <Brianetta> because it's over so quickly
11:45:57 <boekabart_> hovering sea effect can be less sucky if we make the sprite transparent
11:46:12 <boekabart_> by the way lowering also works, land dries up slowly.
11:46:15 <Brianetta> or use house foundations (:
11:46:31 <boekabart_> yes, NICE idea! :)
11:46:51 <boekabart_> (old water-owned canals dry up now, by the way, if > sea level)
11:46:53 <Brianetta> Get some custom ones drawn that look like frothy waves
11:47:24 <boekabart_> actually, the brown ground is drawn just to get rid of black holes
11:47:33 <boekabart_> i'll request 'waterwall' sprites on the forum
11:47:38 <Brianetta> Why not draw water under there?
11:48:01 <Brianetta> I see you tried it (:
11:48:02 <boekabart_> plus, you need the slopes
11:48:47 <peter1138> you've added a *huge* comment? :p
11:48:47 <Brianetta> So, if you raise water level, do you get a brown border at the bottom of the map?
11:49:03 <boekabart_> huge comment: yes, that was the raising-terrain code i think
11:49:09 <boekabart_> of course i need to clean up the patch
11:49:16 <peter1138> global warming... rising sealevel...
11:49:35 <boekabart_> should be announced a couple of months in advance, right?
11:49:43 <Brianetta> peter1138: Disasters should be triggerable from console (:
11:49:47 <boekabart_> current UI: scenario editor, raise/lower tile 0,0 (upper corner)
11:50:02 <Brianetta> It'd be cool if a server admin could request a recession, for example
11:50:22 <boekabart_> or a flood if all the players are sinners
11:50:30 <Brianetta> A drought could lower the sea level
11:50:48 <boekabart_> <0 is not possible, uint ....
11:50:58 <Brianetta> Well, default it to 2 or something
11:51:09 <Brianetta> The TGP has a "sea level" setting
11:51:31 <Brianetta> You could adjust that to match at generation time
11:51:35 <Brianetta> Terragenesis Perlin
11:51:44 <Brianetta> The landscape generator
11:51:57 <boekabart_> right. anyway currently WATERLEVEL is deffed as TileHeight((TileIndex)0)
11:52:03 <peter1138> should be a separate setting
11:52:06 <boekabart_> would like a separate setting
11:52:17 <Brianetta> I still think it'd be nice to have differing water levels
11:52:29 <Brianetta> so you could do lakes on hills, reservoirs, etc
11:52:45 <peter1138> that's more tricky...
11:53:08 <Brianetta> boekabart_: People will start to want to bear your children if you do that
11:53:24 <boekabart_> ah no you can't now.
11:53:35 <boekabart_> would have to change the drying up code for that
11:54:00 <Brianetta> Drying up would really need "boggy ground" tiles
11:54:10 <Brianetta> so that it could happen in stages
11:54:25 <boekabart_> waterlevel info per tile?
11:54:46 <Brianetta> You know how grass grows back in stages?
11:54:51 <Brianetta> Water should dry up in stages too
11:55:32 <boekabart_> but the 'if' now is: if water (not canal) and height > sealevel then dryup
11:55:34 <boekabart_> should be neighbor related.
11:55:37 <Brianetta> but dryup is instant?
11:56:55 <boekabart_> lowering sea-level-sprite is instant-instant
11:57:15 <boekabart_> turning in to land is done in tileLoop
11:57:42 <boekabart_> anyway it was meant to be set in scenario editor and not changed after
11:59:15 <boekabart_> ah by the way, i don't think drawing the water with DrawGroundSprite is all that correct if it's floating.
11:59:21 <boekabart_> any idea how to do it better?
11:59:56 <peter1138> AddSortableSpriteToDraw()
12:00:36 <peter1138> x = 0, y = 0, w = 16, h = 16, dz = 0, z = sealevel? or maybe sealevel - tileheight
12:03:51 <boekabart_> setting the last z doesn't work
12:04:12 <boekabart_> ... but setting ti->z to WATERLEVEL temporarily works
12:09:30 <peter1138> maybe it's dz then... i can't remember :(
12:09:37 <peter1138> d would be delta though...
12:16:54 <boekabart_> AddSortableSpriteToDraw( SPR_FLAT_WATER_TILE, PAL_NONE, ti->x, ti->y, 16, 16, 0, ti->z + dz );
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13:13:39 <peter1138> Belugas Belugas Belugas
13:16:04 <Belugas> #Someone's screaming my name
13:16:14 <Belugas> #Come and make me Holy again
13:16:31 <Belugas> #I'm the man on the Silver Mountain
13:17:14 <boekabart_> peter1138: updated site
13:17:32 <peter1138> nooo! secret feature :/
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13:18:13 <peter1138> those defines should not be defines
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15:04:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9686 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Update a couple of NewGRF TTDPatch flags
15:04:53 <Sacro|Laptop> :o newsomethings?
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15:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> oldnewsomethings!
15:08:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
15:09:34 <antichaos> peter1138 does newcarogs allow a grf to completely change the existing cargos, such that st->goods[CT_PASSENGERS] might not refer to a passengers at all?
15:15:58 <peter1138> avoid using CT_*, basically, except CT_INVALID.
15:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro|Laptop: rofl @ underground ;)
15:24:41 <Sacro|Laptop> Eddi|zuHause3: hehe, i thought so
15:25:39 <Belugas> Sacro|Laptop ain't a german...
15:26:28 <Sacro|Laptop> Belugas: ich bin ein berliner
15:27:00 <Belugas> desole, j'comprends pas un mot d'allemand
15:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> some of the translations are really funny :)
15:36:51 <SpComb> hmm... so many places have their logs online these days
15:37:14 * SpComb needs to dust off SpBotII, fix it and start using it some day Real Soon (tm)
15:37:32 <SpComb> configureable timestamp! Timezones! Funky AJAX magic!
15:52:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: miham * r9687 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
15:52:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-04-20 17:51:25
15:52:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: romanian - 2 fixed by kneekoo (2)
15:52:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 9 fixed by Fishingsnow (9)
15:52:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovak - 2 fixed by lengyel (2)
15:52:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 fixed by Necrolyte (2)
15:52:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 2 changed by xbddc (2)
15:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> who needs all those languages?
15:54:18 <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause3: a whole lot of users... if you're not interested, don't use it, but please don't make rude or offensive remarks
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16:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> you killed him!
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16:56:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9688 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_cmd.cpp engine.cpp engine.h): -Codechange: Created a function to get default cargo type for a cargo type
16:57:09 <peter1138> default cargo type for a cargo type?
16:58:51 <peter1138> and mucked up your commit message :D
16:59:31 <peter1138> now to try boekabart's patch
17:06:51 <peter1138> hmm, not sure how this is supposed to work
17:07:53 <Progman> what does "dbg: [misc] NUM_SSD_STACK too small" mean?
17:08:46 <Progman> ou, that could be the reason for a crash...
17:08:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: bjarni * r9689 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix: Clone vehicles will no longer refit for free
17:09:03 <hylje> how does the sealevel patch work
17:13:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> this time for real?
17:14:53 <Bjarni> I didn't hack it. I added an estimated cost instead
17:15:12 <Bjarni> the previous time was a dirty hack
17:15:25 <Bjarni> (because I didn't do it :p )
17:15:54 <Bjarni> basically I made use of a function I added after I wrote cloning
17:16:06 <Bjarni> and it would be really tricky to do without it
17:16:41 <Bjarni> the previous attempt hacked to accept that the estimated cost guess was wrong, which ended up with some not so nice side effects
17:18:34 <Bjarni> well, with my luck, some insane newGRF can figure out how to break this, but it worked with everything I tested it with
17:19:36 <Bjarni> it's your job to figure out which one of the many grf sets that are insane enough to trigger such an event ;)
17:19:53 <Bjarni> (which would likely be an 'res == res2' assert)
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17:23:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9690 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Update another couple of NewGRF TTDPatch flags
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17:24:46 <dihedral> rememer yesterday's topic (gradual and improved loading)?
17:25:35 <dihedral> well - we figured out that when 'full load' is not enabled in the order, multiple trains load at the same time
17:25:58 <dihedral> just thought i'd let you guys know :-)
17:26:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9691 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r9683): Forgotten savegame bump...
17:26:18 <peter1138> dihedral: yeah, we knew that
17:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause3> i did not know that...
17:26:55 <peter1138> neither did i. i though i'd make it up
17:27:02 <hylje> i think we have full load+gradual load working in openttdcoop
17:27:27 <dihedral> but fifo is not a patch option right?
17:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's not even real FIFO, hylje
17:27:46 <peter1138> improved loading, sort off...
17:27:54 <hylje> Eddi|zuHause3: wtf is it then
17:27:58 <dihedral> sort of fifo is not really fifo
17:28:28 <dihedral> how about calling it cuo_fifo
17:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> something like "lowest id, first out", but i am not really sure
17:28:52 <peter1138> well we now have a list
17:29:12 <peter1138> when a vehicle enters the station it is pushed to the end of the list
17:29:20 <peter1138> could be used to do the fifo
17:29:23 <Rubidium> peter1138: isn't it fifo since 9683?
17:29:25 <peter1138> might even work now, heh
17:29:26 <dihedral> how hard would it be to add a little something to ignore one players actions?
17:29:38 <peter1138> Rubidium: did that actually make it a fifo, or just speed it up?
17:29:40 <hylje> dihedral: its called spectator mode
17:30:03 <Rubidium> well, it did speed it up, but I'm not 100% sure it made it fifo
17:30:12 <peter1138> Rubidium, sadly, i'm trying to think of other places i could use SLE_LST :/
17:30:39 <dihedral> hylje: i mean as an admin, run a rcon command that would from there on refuse a players actions
17:31:06 <dihedral> i mentioned my thoughts on the current banning system more that once
17:32:14 <dihedral> and having to pause an entire game just because of one guy is not as nice i think
17:32:22 <Rubidium> peter1138: with improved load _and_ the full-load flag turned on it is fifo, otherwise it ain't
17:32:54 <peter1138> so we just need to fix the improved loading / gradual loading bug
17:33:24 <dihedral> why does it then not work fifo style when the 'full load' order is not given?
17:33:37 <hylje> because the trains leave automagically when they dont get any more load
17:33:37 <peter1138> dihedral: are you playing a version since r9683?
17:33:52 <dihedral> i am playing only the latest official stable
17:33:53 <hylje> full load means the trains wait for full load no matter what
17:34:02 <peter1138> but ... latest stable? yuck
17:34:10 <hylje> thus fifo is useless on non-full load conditions
17:34:20 <dihedral> i play latest stable because of the game servers
17:34:31 <peter1138> hylje: not necessarily
17:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, if you already have a list, you need to retrieve the remaining capacity of the first train, and look if there is "spare" cargo
17:34:47 <Rubidium> yeah, 0.5.0... it's so ancient ;)
17:35:05 <dihedral> compared to trunk ? yeah it is
17:35:29 <dihedral> but that is what most normal players play
17:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> for each loading step, you have to cycle each vehicle anyway
17:35:38 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: true, but ... when you rework the loading algorithms completely, you can do it much nicer
17:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> so additionally calculate a "remaining cargo" that is the previous remaining cargo, minus the just loaded cargo, minus the remaining capacity of the vehicle
17:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> and stop loading if remaining cargo = 0
17:37:11 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: true, but for _every_ wagon/vehicle you want to load you have to calculate that value if you simply hack it into the current system.
17:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> for each loading cycle, you initiali[sz]e remaining cargo with the currently available cargo
17:37:48 <Rubidium> what is much better is just iterating over the 'fifo' queue of each of the stations
17:38:12 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: do you know how the current loading stuff is coded?
17:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> i guess i'd rather not want to know :)
17:39:46 <Rubidium> it basically needs to be rewritten from scratch to support fifo and gradual loading and improved loading properly
17:40:24 <peter1138> the one in Vehicle::LeaveStation
17:40:31 <peter1138> triggers if a station gets flooded
17:41:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> but what it probably should work like would be: for each (train) { for each (wagon) { if (remaining > 0) {load(min(load_amount, remaining)); calculate remaining; } } }
17:42:10 <dihedral> how about splitting cargo up at the station into tracks too?
17:42:15 <Rubidium> yes, but that isn't the way it happens right now
17:43:03 <dihedral> you know how much cargo fits into a waggon
17:43:16 <dihedral> and you know how many waggons fit into one tile
17:43:30 <dihedral> and you know how long that station is
17:43:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, and when the train does not have "full load" on, skip the capacity for the "remaining" variable
17:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> <dihedral> and you know how many waggons fit into one tile <- i doubt that
17:44:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> newgrf wagons can have different length
17:44:45 <dihedral> hehe - and with that more gargo?
17:45:06 <dihedral> so the amount of cargo -> tile stayes the same, or not?
17:45:37 <dihedral> clears that thought :-P
17:48:45 <dihedral> btw. it would be nice to have a few more console commands for dedicated servers :-)
17:50:40 <dihedral> e.g. setting a companies password, display the game date (useful for when connected via ssh),
17:52:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9692 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix (r9683): don't try to remove vehicles from the queue of a non-existing station.
17:53:44 <glx> you can set company password via console, but only the player can do it
17:55:42 <dihedral> yeah - but it has often happened that a player asked me if i could reset his password as he forgot it
17:55:53 <dihedral> which IMHO is his tough luck, but it would still be nice
17:55:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can probably change the password handling locally without breaking multiplayer
17:57:46 <dihedral> whats wrong with a patched server?
17:57:57 <hylje> nothing, its just somewhat evil :P
17:58:11 <dihedral> depends on the patch and the admin
17:58:16 <hylje> because a server can do a lot of things
17:58:30 <dihedral> i run my servers patched
17:58:34 <hylje> iirc you can demolish anything from server
17:58:39 <hylje> given you have a way of doing it
17:59:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> hylje: some actions will probably instantly desync every client
17:59:43 <dihedral> desyncs - good topic
18:00:02 <dihedral> yesterday someone connected and got a desync before the game even unpaused :-(
18:00:34 <dihedral> but i though you could not connect if you had different grf's included than the server
18:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: that description is totally useless without a reproduceable case
18:01:18 <hylje> the grfs are in the savegame, and the savegame gets handed over after you join the server
18:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> i.e savegame, and list of actons
18:01:33 <dihedral> i know - but what kind of reproducable stuff can i give you
18:01:50 * Sacro gets visions of bukkake
18:01:51 <dihedral> as the player had no chance of doing any actions
18:01:59 <dihedral> and any savegame would also not have included that player
18:02:35 <dihedral> game was paused, then desync, then unpause - or something like that
18:03:02 <Rubidium> dihedral: something like a savegame that you can load in the server and when the client joins around day Y it desync
18:03:41 <dihedral> that must be a lot of hard testing to find a desync
18:03:41 <Rubidium> dihedral: the server isn't paused when the savegame is being transferred I believe
18:04:44 <dihedral> hence -> <dihedral> game was paused, then desync, then unpause - or something like that
18:05:09 <dihedral> i was watching via ssh
18:05:57 <dihedral> o know that is not very helpful
18:10:29 <peter1138> ok, got this sealevel patch going...
18:10:39 <peter1138> modified a lot though :p
18:12:03 <peter1138> though... terraforming under water is freaky
18:12:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> deep water should probably get darker colour
18:13:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> under water slopes could then be fading between the colours
18:14:03 <hylje> ooo the 32-bit colour gets some use
18:14:34 <dihedral> q: has there been some performance work on rc3?
18:14:53 <dihedral> or better "included in rc3"
18:15:53 <Rubidium> but the answer is yes
18:15:57 <dihedral> why is it that i never think of that myself?
18:16:02 <hylje> 32-bit water tiles would be some serious awesome :o
18:16:09 <Rubidium> (only for AIs though)
18:16:34 <dihedral> my dedicated server is running at 3.3 % CPU compared to the 14% of RC2
18:16:45 <dihedral> we... - anyhow - makes me happy
18:20:48 <peter1138> i can wipe out tons with sea level set to 2
18:29:14 <dihedral> look like an ai is at work to someone who only playes stables
18:30:45 <scia> peter1138: that is black magic :D
18:31:21 <hylje> dihedral: tunnels and below-water terrain
18:31:38 <dihedral> i saw that on the last screeny
18:31:58 <dihedral> but in this one i dont...
18:36:30 <Bjarni> peter1138: about that water screenshot. What happens if you flood the tunnels?
18:36:34 <Thomas[NL]> I see some kind of diagonal station :o
18:36:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
18:36:47 <hylje> what if there is a train inside
18:36:55 <Bjarni> I meant about the hole in the ground
18:37:34 <Bjarni> and this will be really unsafe if all other players in MP can just flood your rails
18:37:35 <dihedral> so what is that second pic showing peter1138 .... i am sorry but i dont see more than reforming terrain
18:38:26 <Thomas[NL]> The damage a flood did I guess
18:38:27 <peter1138> the affects of sealevel rising and falling
18:39:04 <peter1138> Bjarni: well obviously players can't adjust sealevel...
18:39:06 <dihedral> thanks - that is pretty cool :-)
18:39:17 <peter1138> Thomas[NL]: no, but it didn't work very well
18:39:18 <Belugas> Thomas[NL], old stuff...
18:40:00 <Thomas[NL]> too good to be true :)
18:40:14 <peter1138> it might work better now
18:40:22 <peter1138> that was before tons of other changes
18:41:02 <Bjarni> <peter1138> Bjarni: well obviously players can't adjust sealevel... <-- I didn't mean that. What if some other player decides to dig a hole in the "hill" around the tunnel so it gets flooded? Don't you think this will open for easy access to severely damage MP games?
18:41:24 <hylje> the player will obviously block that by bying the land
18:41:38 <peter1138> happens anyway with land at sealevel
18:41:48 *** DJ_Mirage has joined #openttd
18:43:13 <Naksu> so you could have a lake in the mountains
18:43:46 <Naksu> and flood a mountain village with it
18:44:34 <dihedral> how unstable is trunk?
18:45:34 <hylje> does the sealevel patch involve underwater terrain?
18:45:55 <Wolf01> i think i'll need to make transparent water
18:46:28 <Thomas[NL]> kinda like roller-coaster tycoon water?
18:46:58 <Wolf01> if you use AddSortableSpriteToDraw() i would have to add only the last parameter
18:50:14 <peter1138> because normally water is very very thin
18:50:32 <Sacro_> hmm, an intresting idea springs to mind
18:50:47 <Sacro_> if you build a bridge at ground level, will water destroy it?
18:50:54 * Sacro_ creats an underwater bridge
18:50:56 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
18:52:52 <Sacro> maybe have dark blue sea tiles for underwater
18:53:08 <hylje> shouldnt we rise the overall terrain height to let us have a high default sealevel?
18:53:23 <Wolf01> [20:53:04] <Sacro> maybe have dark blue sea tiles for underwater <- i was thinking it yestarday
18:53:32 <peter1138> there's only 16 height levels
18:53:36 <Sacro> Wolf01: its a good idea
18:53:40 <hylje> peter1138: i mean, raise
18:53:55 <peter1138> Sacro: it's configurable
18:54:12 <Wolf01> when 24 above 8 below?
18:54:25 <hylje> 24/8 would be sheer awesome, just for the looks
18:57:12 <hylje> but lets not be distracted !
18:57:19 <Bjarni> don't post so scary pictures
18:57:32 <Bjarni> now I'm scared for life :(
18:59:46 <hylje> talking about distractions
19:01:27 <dihedral> can it grow when it catches a bubble?
19:01:40 <Bjarni> I'm not going to click that link
19:01:48 <peter1138> hylje: last year, that was
19:01:54 <Bjarni> being the internet, it's likely some sexual act or something
19:02:05 <hylje> we all know peter1138 is such a perv
19:02:42 <Bjarni> Sacro: yeah... some people have sex
19:02:56 <Bjarni> it's not just some porn magazine fiction even though it could be in your world
19:03:25 <Bjarni> with that freaky girl, who got committed :p
19:03:26 <peter1138> yeah, what could "trans.png" be?
19:03:41 <peter1138> Bjarni's transsexual lover?
19:04:34 <peter1138> i should clear some of this shit out
19:05:00 <Bjarni> <peter1138> Bjarni's transsexual lover? <-- I don't have such a thing and I don't want to
19:05:05 * lolman wonders what he's wandered into
19:05:31 <Bjarni> lolman: peter1138 is posting links to his perverted pictures
19:05:46 <Bjarni> so it's a normal night
19:13:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: KUDr * r9693 /trunk/src/yapf/ (yapf_base.hpp yapf_rail.cpp yapf_road.cpp yapf_ship.cpp): -Codechange [YAPF]: GetBestNode() now returns pointer to node instead of reference
19:16:40 <Bjarni> like it can make you a drunk driver
19:16:46 <Bjarni> or even worse: a drunk coder
19:17:06 <Bjarni> somebody might even mistake you for a Microsoft coder
19:17:42 <peter1138> 20:13 <@Bjarni> it has sideeffects
19:17:45 <peter1138> yes, that's the point
19:18:40 <lolman> Damn! I shoulda gone and got a takeaway while I could take money out my bank :(
19:19:24 <lolman> Nah, the place with the cash machine is closed
19:19:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: KUDr * r9694 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp: -Fix [YAPF][FS#736]: the guessed path (when PF stopped on max. # of nodes passed) was ignored for ships (desolator)
19:19:26 <Bjarni> like the bank closed the account because it went into minus?
19:20:21 <lolman> Bjarni, oh it's not in minus
19:20:28 <Bjarni> btw did any of you get an offer on some cheap SPARC CPUs lately?
19:23:40 <peter1138> cash points close? huh?
19:24:13 <lolman> peter1138, it's inside a shop that closed 25 minutes ago
19:25:34 <peter1138> living the sticks, eh...
19:26:02 <Bjarni> you know there are places where you can use them 24 hours a day, right?
19:26:16 <lolman> Bjarni, a few miles walk yes :)
19:26:26 <lolman> peter1138, I live in the city now :P
19:29:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> nice "city" that only has one cash machine :p
19:30:29 <lolman> Eddi|zuHause3, it has plenty, I just can't be bothered walking to them :)
19:30:39 <Bjarni> and it's even inside a closed shop
19:30:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> ever heard of public transport?
19:31:01 <lolman> No physical cash on me, hence the need for a cash machine
19:31:26 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause3> ever heard of public transport? <--- if not, then a bike could do the trink
19:31:50 <lolman> Bjarni, wouldn't trust a bike to not be stolen
19:32:37 <Bjarni> lot's of bikes get stolen
19:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's pretty hard to get a bike stolen while you sit on it
19:32:57 <lolman> Eddi|zuHause3, it's the fact I don't have a bike that works that makes it kinda hard ;)
19:33:00 <Bjarni> I read that the police decided to stop all bikes one morning to check for stolen bikes and they found a lot
19:33:23 <Bjarni> several of them was used by the person, who reported it stolen to the police and insurance company
19:33:33 <glx> how can they check if they are stolen?
19:33:51 <Bjarni> <glx> how can they check if they are stolen? <-- that's easy. They look at the number
19:34:10 <glx> I don't have number on my bike
19:34:19 <lolman> Nor do I (but mine's broke)
19:34:22 <Bjarni> it's like a car number, only made so small that people usually don't know that they are there
19:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have never heard of bike numbers
19:34:45 <peter1138> they like to stamp them under the bottom bracket
19:34:58 <peter1138> usually fucking up the paint work and causing it to start rusting
19:35:09 <Bjarni> it's stamped into the "chassis" itself with some mechanical stuff, so it's not even possible to paint it to remove the number
19:35:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> and if most people do not know them, how can they report them to the polce?
19:35:34 <lolman> Right need a reboot for new kernel
19:36:18 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause3> and if most people do not know them, how can they report them to the polce? <--- because they use the number from the insurance (added when the bike was bought)
19:40:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9695 /branches/0.5/lang/ (6 files): [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r9668, r9680, r9681, r9687): language updates.
19:41:21 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9696 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix: --without-application-bundle did not disable the custom language/second data directory stuff that is used for application bundles.
19:43:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: KUDr * r9697 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp: -Fix [YAPF](r9694): 'unused variable' warning (glx)
19:44:03 *** DJ_Mirage has joined #openttd
19:45:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9698 /branches/0.5/ (5 files in 4 dirs): [0.5] -Prepare 0.5 branch for release of 0.5.1.
19:47:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9699 /tags/0.5.1/ (6 files): -Release 0.5.1.
19:48:12 <ln-> Bjarni: stupid question: if i set -mcpu=G4, i suppose it'll still run on G5?
19:49:08 <Bjarni> but it should fail if you go the other way
19:50:16 <ln-> another question: do you happen to know what's the optimal -mcpu setting for intel macs?
19:50:26 <Bjarni> you see, Apple was clever enough to make a design so all commercially bought apps compiled for G3 and G4 would still work on G5 unless they really used CPU specific stuff (which is really rare. I only know that VPC had problems with this)
19:51:22 <peter1138> yeah, like all those clever PC designers with their x86 chips? :p
19:52:47 * HMage laughs out loud. The updater of msvc2005 to sp1 eats ~6GB of free space. 1) it self-extracts update .msp from exe, then launches that msp. 2) the launched starts copying itself into %TMP% 3) then that .msp copies itself into %TMP% with a new name 4) then it copies itself into %TMP% with a new name 5) then it copies itself into %TMP% with a new name 6) that starts looking for data to actually patch, then checks for free space.
19:53:05 <HMage> needless to say that .msp file is 466Mb big
19:53:24 <Ailure> bridges looks way all glitchy now for me
19:53:54 <Ailure> seems to be TTRS3 causing it somehow
19:56:26 <Bjarni> <ln-> another question: do you happen to know what's the optimal -mcpu setting for intel macs? <--- err... I read it once, but I can't remember that right now... is that good enough? :p
19:58:51 <ln-> Bjarni: yeah, very sufficient :)
19:59:12 <Bjarni> but what do you need it for?
19:59:18 <hylje> intels chips have been i686 for liek ten years
19:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> Ailure: check for a TTRS update
19:59:26 <Bjarni> I mean usually the system will just figure it out on it's own
19:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> there was something concerning bridges and ottd
19:59:36 <hylje> remember to use sse1-3 too
19:59:40 <ln-> correction: i'm *cross*-compiling ffmpeg
19:59:53 <Ailure> Eddi, I was just on my way to the ttdpatch graphics forums
20:00:38 <Bjarni> ln-: whenever I cross compile to make universal binaries, I use the -arch argument instead. It appears to work every single time
20:01:07 <ln-> hmm, well yeah, i'm using that too.
20:01:11 <Ailure> expect it do seems like I have the latest version of TTRS3
20:01:22 <Bjarni> depending on configure and the makefile, you might be able to just write "-arch ppc -arch i386" and then it will make a universal binary on it's own without you doing anything else
20:01:24 <HMage> correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't -mcpu switch deprecated?
20:01:46 <HMage> as far as I remember, -march is recommended to use instead of -mcpu
20:02:05 <ln-> HMage: the situation might be different on the OS X platform
20:02:26 <Bjarni> OTTD uses -mcpu to specify if it compiles for G5
20:02:27 <ln-> the gcc isn't very vanilla either.
20:02:39 <Bjarni> and it appears to work just fine
20:03:08 <Bjarni> <ln-> the gcc isn't very vanilla either. <-- like it accepts multiple -arch arguments ;)
20:03:54 <Bjarni> actually Apple added several features to gcc that the GCC people rejected, hence the reason why generic GCC can't compile for OSX
20:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, wasn't there supposed to be like 1 week waiting time between release of RCs and final version?
20:04:24 <Bjarni> Apple released the source though, so you can crosscompile from other OSes if you want to spend the time to set it up
20:04:51 <Bjarni> like we did on the nightly build server
20:05:17 <Ailure> I just had to reorder sprite priotery
20:05:31 <ln-> Apple's gcc had support for precompiled headers a long time before the regular GCC...
20:05:33 <HMage> Ailure: are you going to commit that?
20:05:50 <hylje> commit? with what privileges? :-)
20:06:00 <Ailure> I didn't even touch the source code
20:06:14 <Ailure> I just gave TTRS3 highest priotery or whatever
20:06:26 <peter1138> grf priority, not sprite priority
20:06:37 <HMage> I suspect we're going to have sprite priority wars
20:06:40 <peter1138> but there is no priority :)
20:06:46 <Bjarni> <hylje> commit? with what privileges? :-) <--- there is a reason why we don't allow everybody to commit
20:06:51 <Ailure> I suspect it's the order they are loaded in or something
20:07:02 <hylje> Bjarni: that doesn't explain your commit privs
20:07:05 <peter1138> what's loaded *last* is what is used, when they affect the same thing
20:07:16 <Ailure> I done that in some other games
20:07:19 <peter1138> Bjarni: the other reason is we're evil selfish bastards
20:07:24 <Ailure> like insert a object with same id that loads later
20:07:30 <Ailure> so it overwrites a orginal object in the game
20:07:33 <Bjarni> peter1138: you beat me to write that :p
20:07:46 <HMage> I mean, come on, no matter in which order you load newgrf's it shouldn't glitch the drawing of them
20:08:03 <Ailure> that's what I found weird
20:08:09 <Ailure> the GRF's I had below TTTRS3
20:08:14 <Ailure> hadn't anything to do with bridges
20:08:20 <peter1138> HMage: bridges are just sprite replacements
20:08:41 <HMage> Ailure: are you talking about newbridges or stock ttd ones?
20:08:44 <peter1138> so if two grfs replace the same set of sprites, things can get mixed up
20:09:04 <Ailure> I only had the UKRS set and the addon below the TTRS3
20:09:27 <Ailure> but I don't see how thoose would cause glitches with bridges
20:11:48 <HMage> ok, maybe I've overreacted. What I wanted to be fixed is that I've observed a strange behaviour in drawing of original bridges if there are signals underneath them. I can try to reproduce that.
20:13:36 <Ailure> AI can quickly ruin a titlescreen savegame
20:13:55 <Ailure> but the AI thought it was good idea making random busstations and buses going around in that little town
20:13:57 <Ailure> in a rather ugly way too
20:14:15 <HMage> All your bus are belong to us
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20:20:33 <Ailure> there should be a titlescreen contest
20:20:47 <Ailure> I just made up something quick so I wo't have to hear 324234234 sounds at teh same time xD
20:20:53 <Ailure> there's still making noises and stuff
20:21:00 <Ailure> just calm engine noises
20:21:06 <Ailure> instead of "BLING BLING BLING BLIGN VROOOM"
20:21:28 <Bjarni> how can engine noises be calm?
20:22:12 <Ailure> Sonme of the noises in the UKRS set
20:22:41 <Ailure> Then I find the freight train going by here soothing too so I'm weird
20:22:57 <hylje> ottd needs some $$$ sfx
20:23:26 <hylje> sound effects worth monies
20:25:23 <|2rB> I kind of didnt understand that... but that probably tells more about me than you... or?
20:25:58 <Bjarni> Ailure: have you found real life trains with calm engine noises?
20:26:21 <hylje> the local emus are rather quiet
20:26:34 <Ailure> I like the sound of X2 :)
20:26:35 <hylje> the rails make more noise than the train
20:26:43 <Ailure> When X2000 slows into the train station
20:26:49 <Ailure> that's gotta be one of the coolest train noises I heard
20:27:05 <Bjarni> actually I was thinking about locomotives... fair enough. EMUs can be quiet
20:27:19 <Bjarni> but I have yet to find a calm locomotive
20:27:26 <Bjarni> specially if it's not electric
20:27:42 <hylje> combustion engines tend to go bbbbbbbbbb
20:27:49 <Ailure> I should look for a GRF with X2000
20:27:50 <hylje> which isnt good for silence
20:27:58 <Ailure> or X2 as it's actually called
20:28:04 <Ailure> X2000 is mostly a marketing thing
20:28:16 <Bjarni> even steam is noisy... more noisy than most people realise
20:28:23 <hylje> its noisy in a cool way
20:28:23 <Bjarni> but it's a whole different kind of noisy
20:28:40 <Bjarni> specially the safety vents are really noisy
20:29:33 <Ailure> been awhile since I saw a steam engine
20:29:36 <Ailure> real one that was running
20:29:40 <Ailure> three years ago i think
20:29:59 <Bjarni> I saw one.... hmmm last December
20:30:09 <hylje> yeah, fair enough you train nut
20:30:17 *** Bjarni changes topic to "0.5.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs)"
20:30:17 <Ailure> just noticed I had futuuristic wagons on that steam engine
20:31:12 <Bjarni> and the last time I saw a steam locomotive (or at least parts of one) was last Monday
20:31:23 <Ailure> the game defaults to water if there's no GRF
20:31:29 <Ailure> if there's no titlescreen
20:31:33 <Ailure> I remember how TTO did
20:31:37 <Ailure> on TTO it was just grass
20:31:42 <Ailure> if you removd the titlescreen file
20:32:23 <Bjarni> Ailure: it also reverts to water if it fails to load the titlescreen.... so if you get a water titlescreen when you don't expect one will indicate a saveload error
20:32:38 <Bjarni> I had plenty of those when porting to mac in the first place
20:32:53 <Bjarni> first big endian OS to use OTTD
20:33:59 <Ailure> I like this titlescreen much better
20:34:23 <Ailure> the offical titlescreens in TTO, TTD and openTTD likes to squeeze in as much as possible
20:34:27 <hylje> Ailure: move the rail a bit north
20:34:45 <Ailure> yeah I just noticed that it covered the xD
20:34:56 <Ailure> I don't really mind it that way either
20:35:10 <HMage> Ailure: Psychologically wise, I think it's a plus that there are many things shown on one screen.
20:35:10 <Belugas> Ailure : bad screenshot, you are hiding everything :(
20:35:28 <Belugas> no station, no houses, just... treeacks and forest!
20:35:49 <Bjarni> we can't have winamp in the titlescreen for legal reasons
20:36:11 <HMage> plug xmms there though :)
20:36:19 <hylje> xmms brings massive dependencies !
20:36:27 <HMage> oh, wait, xmms isn't for win32
20:37:34 <glx> it plays everything without need to search for codecs
20:39:03 <Bjarni> I once found a file it failed to play.... it turned out that all other players failed to play it as well, so I will not blame the vlc guys for it
20:39:14 <Bjarni> must have been broken in transfer or something
20:39:54 <Bjarni> actually I once had a working file that it failed to open. Downloading a new version fixed it though
20:40:11 <Ailure> I didn't plan making it a zomg serious titlescreen
20:40:20 <Ailure> just wanted something that wouldn't give me ADHD each time I start the game
20:40:26 <Belugas> Bjarni : i prefer your japanese-understanding story :D
20:40:42 <ln-> wow, i think i just compiled ffmpeg libraries as universal binaries.
20:41:14 <Ailure> of course that titlescreen get's very boring with low resoultions as there wouldn't be any rail at all ;)
20:41:33 <Ailure> b7ut having just nature as titlescreen would be nice as well
20:41:58 <Bjarni> Belugas: yeah... I like it too.... I started to wonder about how many words I picked up and I counted like 8 or 9
20:42:29 <Bjarni> at this rate I will learn Japanese in just a few years without actually trying :D
20:42:39 <Bjarni> (like that will ever happen)
20:43:30 <Bjarni> btw I noticed something: Japanese grammar appears to be very different from grammar in European languages
20:43:36 <Ailure> in next generation we probably won't speak English anymore
20:44:01 <lolman> Ailure, have you seen what some NATIVE speakers are like now?
20:44:04 <Bjarni> most people speak Engrish anyway
20:44:04 * Belugas just had a thought about picking random intro scenes, if more than one available...
20:44:05 <Ailure> all r would been dropped in favor of l, or the other way around
20:44:37 <Ailure> Swearing in my own language is fun ;D
20:44:41 <lolman> Hmm need to test something, brb :)
20:44:52 * Belugas wonders what country speaks Native
20:44:57 <Ailure> It's especiall fun when people aren't sure if you gave them a compliment or... not.
20:45:05 <Bjarni> Belugas: Native Americans.... I guess
20:46:18 <peter1138> who's going to get r9700, anyway?
20:46:34 <Bjarni> somebody with commit rights.... I guess
20:46:46 <Belugas> or with something to commit :P
20:47:16 <peter1138> r9700 (Belugas) -Feature: NewIndustries
20:47:34 <hylje> moments like this make me think why i havent bluffed myself commit rights
20:47:37 <Belugas> that will scrap nighlies for quite a long time :D
20:47:40 <hylje> then i'd ninja all the GETs
20:48:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r9700 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Merge: Release changes from 0.5 branch back to trunk.
20:48:31 <Belugas> Perfect timing Rubidium :D
20:49:18 <peter1138> Belugas: better save it for r9800...
20:49:32 <Rubidium> for 10000 ofcourse ;)
20:50:02 *** DJ_Mirage has joined #openttd
20:51:51 <Belugas> i wonder if i can finish it by then
20:52:10 <Belugas> courage, actually, not luck...
20:56:10 <Belugas> enjoy the weekend guys
20:57:14 *** Desolator has joined #openttd
20:59:58 <Digitalfox[Home]> you too Belugas
21:00:10 <Digitalfox[Home]> Have a nice weekend :)
21:01:32 *** Ammller has joined #openttd
21:02:05 <Thomas[NL]> 78888888888888888888888
21:06:57 * Bjarni wonders about Thomas[NL]'s encrypted message
21:08:22 <rahikkala> Cat-like typing detected
21:12:04 <Bjarni> this reminds me of when my computer was "attacked" by a child. She wanted to use the computer like she had seen I did, so while I was somewhere else, she went for it and pressed random keys and when I got back, I noticed that the front app was IRC (in #openttd) and the whole channel was talking about my strange messages
21:12:31 <Bjarni> turned out that she had managed to produce a whole lot of long lines of random chars
21:13:43 <Bjarni> so when I looked at the monitor, I could see nothing but those random chars and people wondering about what went on in my end
21:14:15 <Bjarni> it filled the whole screen and I actually had to scroll way back to see the last "real" message
21:14:30 <Bjarni> she didn't manage to start kicking random clients or anything
21:14:45 <Bjarni> now that would have been interesting
21:15:05 <Digitalfox[Home]> it happens ;)
21:15:24 <Digitalfox[Home]> no strange things
21:15:27 <Thomas[NL]> still here i think
21:15:49 <Bjarni> reminds me of the bash quote where a guy gets +o and then the op said "oops, I wanted to kick him"
21:16:15 <Bjarni> <Thomas[NL]> still here i think <-- wow, the cat improved it's typing skills
21:20:37 <Digitalfox[Home]> One time i was repairing a pc on a sawmill, and i started looking for the mouse ( pc mouse ), and i found the usb conector plugged to the box, and start searching for the mouse using the cable, but then something really strange happen the cable was broken in the end and no mouse.. Then after scratching my head i saw a real cat with it in his mouth .. :| My boss at the time saw that too and...
21:20:39 <Digitalfox[Home]> ...told me to call the sawmill boss, and the sawmill boss got crazy trying to catch the cat.. Well he buyed another mouse, but the cat hide the old mouse... :|
21:21:47 <Thomas[NL]> haha, cat's are funny :P
21:21:48 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9702 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_engine.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: Add livery support to newgrf vehicle var 43
21:23:43 <Bjarni> well, people should really be more specific when they tell their cats to catch mice
21:29:14 *** setrodox_ has joined #openttd
21:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> am i the only one to think that Thomas[NL] looks evil?
21:30:39 <Bjarni> he is on IRC -> he looks evil
21:30:49 <Bjarni> until proven otherwise
21:31:50 <Thomas[NL]> you all look evil? :o
21:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> i mean on the totally reliable picture of him he posted above
21:33:22 <ln-> Bjarni: what is a framework supposed to contain?
21:33:38 <ln-> in particular, is it supposed to contain dylibs?
21:34:40 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: it's the usual. Somebody posts a picture on the internet of themselves while in reality it's actually an (almost) naked person much younger and lighter than themselves
21:34:46 *** Sacro__ has joined #openttd
21:35:05 <Bjarni> ln-: check the frameworks in your system
21:35:30 <ln-> i.e. what the hell are the SDL.framwork and SDL_net.framework at libsdl.org good for, since they seem to contain headers but no dylibs?
21:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> you mean all the young ladies in #lesbians? no, they must be real!!!
21:36:27 <Bjarni> maybe there is no such thing as lesbians.... but the porn industry invented it and fooled all of us :p
21:36:57 <Thomas[NL]> noway... that would be so gay
21:39:54 <Bjarni> <ln-> in particular, is it supposed to contain dylibs? <-- my SDL framework contains headers, SDLMain.nib (some file to help Xcode... or something) and a nearly 900k file called SDL
21:40:06 <Bjarni> I presume the last is the actual binary code that you are searching for
21:40:26 <Bjarni> the .nib could actually be linking info
21:40:58 <Bjarni> I didn't really play around with frameworks that much. I mainly add what other people compiled or use libraries in unix style
21:42:09 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9703 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp newgrf_engine.cpp newgrf_engine.h): -Codechange: support callback 36 in vehicle purchase lists
21:43:38 *** Sacro|Laptop has joined #openttd
21:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> what?!? lesbians are as real as the santa claus, for sure!!!
21:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> wow, that took long
21:48:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> he only answered to the 3rd mentioning
21:48:59 <Bjarni> Sacro|Laptop: we had a visit of two lesbian OTTD players. They left like 10 minutes ago
21:51:44 <Sacro|Laptop> zomg? lesbians OTTD?
21:52:37 <Sacro|Laptop> Bjarni: best kicking incident was with me and lolman
21:53:24 <lolman> Sacro__, I remember that one :)
21:53:47 <glx> lolman: you are talking to the wrong ghost
21:53:48 <Bjarni> I had to do some fast typing because I never scripted kicks
21:53:59 <lolman> Yeah, damn tab-complete
21:54:06 <Sacro|Laptop> hmm, Sacro__ is here
21:54:41 <Sacro|Laptop> hmm, what IP is he on :\
21:55:05 <glx> adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM
21:55:13 <Bjarni> ~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM
21:55:27 <lolman> Same as Sacro|Laptop is
21:55:38 <Bjarni> let's ban that domain to get rid of all the ghosts
21:55:57 *** Sacro__ was kicked by Bjarni (now you lost him)
21:56:25 <Bjarni> I got scared of the idea of cloning Sacros
21:58:10 <Sacro|Laptop> i could unleash a few
21:58:17 <Sacro|Laptop> but then i will get G-Lined on quakenet again
21:58:31 <Bjarni> I could ban the cloning device
22:00:42 <Bjarni> this guy really thought about this
22:00:51 * Bjarni wonders about trying it
22:01:04 <Bjarni> but it will clearly not work with everybody
22:03:23 <Bjarni> I once made a battery out of a potato. After draining some power from it, my sister decided to add legs to it (matches or something) and painted a face on it and used the poles as arms. Now it was a potato man. After a while it started growing, so we buried the potato man in the garden and he gave us a decent amount of potatoes
22:04:00 *** Bjarni sets mode: +b *!*Ben@*.karoo.KCOM.COM
22:04:36 <Bjarni> dammit, why do I always do this????
22:04:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> didn't a ban also mute the person (if not kicked)?
22:05:07 <Bjarni> he will still read the channel, but he can't say anything and he can't join
22:05:15 <Bjarni> and now he has a problem
22:05:26 <Bjarni> you see... once again I forgot how to unban :p
22:05:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> there's one clone left
22:05:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd suggest /unban, but that'd help him :p
22:06:02 *** Bjarni sets mode: -b *!*Ben@*.karoo.KCOM.COM
22:06:23 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai
22:06:38 <Bjarni> but then again why would we care for Sacro's issues?
22:06:52 <Bjarni> I mean we could spent days just listing all of them
22:07:26 <glx> Sacro^: nice workaround but you were already unbanned
22:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> actually, circumventing a ban should be a candidate for death penalty :p
22:10:08 *** Sacro^ was kicked by Bjarni (Bjarni agrees with Eddi|zuHause3)
22:11:10 <neli> I have a train station, 4 wide, with 4 trains retrieving goods from it; sometimes they all arrive at once, blocking all 4 tracks, so that no train can deliver wood anymore -> deadlock; how to prevent this ?
22:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> have separate stations for delivery and pickup
22:12:55 <glx> neli: reserve a platform for incomming stuff
22:14:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> neli: you could prepare waypoints to separate incoming trains, and only have tracks to 3 of the 4 platforms from the pickup waypoint
22:14:37 <neli> another Q: the loading time penalty for 'too long' trains seems a little high: train of length 6 in a length 5 station takes ~3 times as long to load ?
22:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> this means, the 4th train will wait at the waypoint
22:15:30 <neli> hmm I need more space then :(
22:15:42 <neli> I can make a waypoint but it will block the entrance anyway
22:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> neli: naturally, a wagon not on the platform will take much longer to load, this will not distribute over the length of the train
22:17:40 <neli> it really seems way more than 2 times
22:17:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't know, must have changed with gradual loading
22:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> if i had to guess, if standard loading is 5 items per second (or is it days?), it would be 1 item per second on "overhang" wagons
22:19:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> meaning 5 times longer
22:19:25 <neli> where's the logic in that ?
22:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> but that is really just a guess
22:19:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> in general, you should never have trains longer than stations
22:20:35 * neli would like an option to let one of the 4 full load trains leave again if they're all waiting for the same thing and station is full
22:20:46 <neli> I know, but sometimes space is little :-S
22:22:09 <neli> also, why are is new cargo for a station evenly divided for all trains that are waiting ?
22:22:43 <neli> if it were given first to first arrived train, etc... then the deadlock problem would also be less
22:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can activate "improved loading", but that might conflict if you have more than 2 trains loading
22:23:47 <neli> never heard of it, what does it do ?
22:23:51 <glx> that conflicts with "gradual loading" (not true since today's nightly)
22:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> it does more or less what you want, only one train loads
22:25:25 <neli> no fundamental conflict, just implementation, I assume ?
22:25:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's not technically a conflict, just a misfeature...
22:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> i.e. if you had cargo to fill 2 trains completely, still only one train would load
22:26:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> making busy stations a lot slower
22:27:20 <neli> well if cargo is abundant it should load in parallel of course
22:27:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> it would, if it was designed properly
22:27:53 <neli> abundant == available cargo > sum(train capacities)
22:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> we had that discussion earlier today
22:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> read the log, if you are interested
22:28:43 <neli> have a timestamp for me ?
22:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's spread througout the whole previous day
22:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> e.g. today 19:24 CEST
22:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> the previous discussion is out of my buffer, so i'm too lazy to check
22:30:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> but it was less than 24 hours before
22:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> there've also been commits regarding this issue today
22:31:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> but i'm not sure what exactly was changed
22:32:24 <_42_> Ammller, I don't remember seeing prissi.
22:33:00 <Ammller> has prissi from forum another name here?
22:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> why would we know if somebody would be here incognito?
22:35:04 <dihedral> i have upgraded to 0.5.1 :-)
22:35:17 <dihedral> i know you dont like stables but i thought i'd share my joy
22:35:22 <dihedral> and show my appreciation :-)
22:35:59 <Wolf01> i wait for the 0.6.0, meanwhile i continue to play with the nightlies
22:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> we should distribute a MiniIN as "stable", that'll confuse people :)
22:36:21 * Sacro^ plays with himself nightly
22:37:54 <dihedral> Sacro - we dont need to know
22:38:11 <dihedral> i am considering one of the nightly's to keep noobs out :-P
22:38:53 <neli> Eddi|zuHause3: thanks for the info
22:40:27 <glx> Sacro^ plays with himself nightly <-- somehow that doesn't suprise me
22:52:05 <Bjarni> There is nothing more terrible than dying as a virgin <--- how do they know? They made a survey of people, who tried dying as virgins and people, who had done it when they died?
22:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> dying, as in dye your hair blond?
22:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> but wouldn't that be dieing?
22:54:33 <Bjarni> you just labelled yourself as an Engrish speaking person
22:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> says you, as the english grammar expert you are
22:54:42 <Bjarni> at least when it comes to grammar
22:55:25 <Bjarni> once again Sacro failed to tell countries apart :p
22:55:35 <Bjarni> I'm not Dutch even though he keeps saying so
22:55:50 <Bjarni> and yes, I can read (some) Dutch
22:55:56 <Bjarni> and no, I'm not planning on moving
22:56:59 <Bjarni> btw I wonder about that link
22:57:05 <Bjarni> is it from the first of April?
22:57:30 <Bjarni> on the other hand, some freaked out people in NL could do that
22:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> it says 20th april
22:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> which means today
22:59:11 <Bjarni> reminds me of a press release the Danish police published on the first of April about issues in the harbour of a certain (inland) town. It actually made it into the news so the police had to send a new one telling that it was a joke
22:59:44 <Bjarni> that particular town has no harbour at all
23:00:18 <Bjarni> it makes you wonder about the media... they just published it as being real without thinking
23:02:28 <ln-> oh yes, the big SDL binary seems to be a Mach-O fat file
23:02:44 <ln-> however, i still need to figure out how to use it :/
23:03:37 <ln-> basically it should be a matter of simply adding those frameworks to the Xcode project..
23:03:55 <Bjarni> add it to your project file or add it as an argument to gcc
23:04:05 <Bjarni> the argument should be -framework SDL or something
23:04:29 <Bjarni> you should never link directly to the file. Use the framework access to do so
continue to next day ⏵
