IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-05-22
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00:37:39 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13207 /trunk/src/signal.cpp: -Fix: misleading comments (michi_cc)
00:38:31 <Sacro> SmatZ: * 13208 Merge YAPP (michi_cc)
00:47:54 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13208 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix (r13173): it was possible to open invalid submenu from dropdowns
00:52:21 <SmatZ> my personal opinion is that YAPP will be in 0.7, and it will be merged rather soon... this summer I would say
00:53:11 <SmatZ> only my personal opinion
00:54:18 <Sacro> SmatZ: yeah, i thought it'd be in for 0.7
00:54:39 <Sacro> it is a much wanted patch
00:59:50 <SmatZ> but things have to be discussed about YAPP - mostly design
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02:03:20 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13209 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Privatize what should be private.
02:13:36 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13210 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make town (previously named t) a private member of the different Town guis and assign it only once, at creation
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08:26:49 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 26 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <SmatZ> but things have to be discussed about YAPP - mostly design
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10:26:08 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13211 /branches/noai/bin/ai/wrightai/main.nut: [NoAI] -Codechange: replace a few hardcoded numbers by an API lookup in the WrightAI.
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12:33:58 <Roujin> hmm, yes, did I miss something?
12:34:25 <SmatZ> maybe it is not clearly mentioned there
12:34:47 <SmatZ> but enums, static variables etc. should be commented with ///<
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12:36:15 <SmatZ> just have a look at other places where enums are commented :)
12:37:15 <SmatZ> but that's not really important
12:37:56 <Roujin> well I did comment the widget definition of the window, stating which is the corresponding enum value
12:38:40 <SmatZ> + TTW_BUTTONS_START, // start of pushable buttons
12:38:57 <SmatZ> but I would use ///< there
12:39:26 <Roujin> okay.. has that to do with the automatic documentation, or is it just convention?
12:39:52 <Ammler> Roujin: the ingame rivers don't work with current trunk anymore :-( . Would be really nice, if you could take a look on it. ;-)
12:41:34 <planetmaker> [02:52] <SmatZ> my personal opinion is that YAPP will be in 0.7, and it will be merged rather soon... this summer I would say <-- can you give a better guestimate?
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12:42:18 <hylje> it will be merged YESTERDAY
12:42:28 <Roujin> Ammler: is that the newest you have? 400 revs difference, ugh ^^
12:42:46 <planetmaker> roujin: look in my wwottdgd thread. There's a newer one...
12:42:57 <planetmaker> I think I have something around r13126
12:43:07 <SmatZ> planetmaker: hello, I can't :)
12:43:20 <ooo4tom> do i understand correctly, YAPP is becoming to trunk ?
12:43:22 <Ammler> Roujin: It was quite your patch there, I only removed debug.h
12:44:00 <SmatZ> but I think devs will have more time over summer
12:44:01 <planetmaker> hehe :) People (including me) start to pester around with yapp and trunk :)
12:44:10 <Roujin> SmatZ: that happens when you promise something :P
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12:44:34 <Ammler> SmatZ: is not the first, peter1138 spoke about it too :-)
12:45:14 <SmatZ> I didn't promise anything, I just said my opinion :)
12:45:25 <Roujin> SmatZ: the wiki indeed does not say the point you mentioned precisely. Should I add it?
12:45:27 <SmatZ> but people understood it is a promise :-x
12:45:57 * SmatZ shouldn't say his opinions
12:46:07 <planetmaker> hehe. Give people the small finger and they'll grab the whole hand (or something like that)
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12:47:07 <SmatZ> Roujin it would be good to have a look how doxygen understands ///< and //
12:48:06 <Ammler> Roujin: the ingame rivers had only offset hunks until the class conversion, so it wasn't worth for posting a updated patch.
12:49:39 <Ammler> SmatZ: did you try something with region GRFs already?
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12:51:02 <SmatZ> I think I said "everything is possible" but also "it would need complex changes" or so :)
12:51:24 <Ammler> like dynamic engine pool
12:51:26 <planetmaker> ^^selective hearing is one of my strengths :)
12:52:57 <Roujin> SmatZ: I figure doxygen reads ///< comments as comments regarding the value to the left of the comment..
12:54:53 <planetmaker> honestly: don't let it stress you. Take it as praise :)
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13:05:07 <peter1138> engine pool was quite simple actually
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13:09:55 * Belugas thinks that the more people will pester about yapp in trunk , the less likely it will be. Like... reverse reaction
13:11:49 <Mchl> reverse reaction? that would be action, wouldn't it :P
13:11:50 <Belugas> and further on the matter, why can't it be already code-style compliant???
13:12:58 <Belugas> Mchl -> action (pester) -> reaction (fuck it)
13:13:39 <Ammler> [15:05] <peter1138> engine pool was quite simple actually <-- something difficult for you? :-)
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13:14:41 * Mchl was just making a pun... :P
13:14:47 <Belugas> region grfs? what's that concept? not the "all-in-one-climates", i hope
13:15:07 <SmatZ> Belugas: : for example, different towns have different building sets
13:15:16 <Ammler> Belugas: idea is manly different town and road grfs per region/town
13:16:36 <Belugas> ho... yeah... an old concept skidd and i worked on... the SmatZ's explanation, not the Ammler's one
13:17:35 <Belugas> i've watched the code a bit, tried to see what could define a town
13:17:41 <Belugas> surprisingly, not much
13:17:52 <Belugas> than a lot of thinking
13:22:48 <Belugas> i still like the idea, just... so... far... away...
13:22:52 <Ammler> Belugas: you think, it's too difficult to make it general for all types, houses, industries, roads vehicels etc..., and then you could also make "all climates in one" too :-)
13:24:09 <Belugas> what the hell are you talking about
13:24:35 <planetmaker> I think the idea was: a general region concept.
13:24:55 <planetmaker> Then landscape, houses, what-ever could have a "applies to region xy" only
13:25:11 <Belugas> in my mind, a region is not a climate
13:25:26 <planetmaker> true. But it *could*
13:25:49 <Ammler> you could then replace the terrain sprites
13:25:53 <planetmaker> Yes. But technically, the concept is the same.
13:26:27 <Belugas> and that is the proof you have no idea at all what it implies, technically
13:26:44 <planetmaker> oh well... I don't claim I do.
13:26:58 <Belugas> [09:24] <planetmaker> Yes. But technically, the concept is the same. <--- yes you did
13:27:51 <planetmaker> hehe. Better I should have written: regions could be introduced such that...
13:28:13 <Belugas> a region is just a portion of the map where a certain caracteric can be applied. A climate is a wider region of the maps where all the caracteristics of all the game's objects are changed
13:28:15 <Ammler> Belugas: it would be "cleaner" the the hack we had with wwottdgd/1
13:28:22 <planetmaker> [15:24] <planetmaker> Then landscape, houses, what-ever could have a "applies to region xy" only
13:29:51 <Ammler> height > x = snowy / height < y and south = tropic
13:30:27 <Belugas> wich is completely silly to begin with
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13:30:47 <glx> better have a clean "all climate in one"
13:31:04 <SmatZ> simple, but rather effective :)
13:33:51 <Ammler> hmm, the patch from Truelight is removed :-)
13:37:16 <Roujin> Ammler: which was the latest revision the rivers patch applied to without too much hassle?
13:39:36 <Ammler> but it was planetmaker, who worked with it
13:40:21 <planetmaker> Roujin: I think r13134 worked for that trunk
13:42:19 <planetmaker> Should I be mistaken I'm 100% sure that a r13057 worked, but I removed it from the forums. Highlight me and I'll put it there, again
13:43:16 <Ammler> planetmaker: the patch had only offsets, afaik?
13:43:49 <planetmaker> I think there might be one hunk failure between r13057 and r13134, but not sure anymore
13:44:19 * planetmaker offers peter1138 a place in the fridge
13:45:07 * Belugas offers a place besides him on his office to poor peter1138
13:45:17 <Belugas> cooling is going to be immediate
13:47:39 <Roujin> the way canals rivers and oceans are placed in the scedit is so messed up :S
13:47:51 <Roujin> also desert/lighthouse
13:48:30 <Roujin> one button is used for the latter, and "overloaded" depending on climate ><
13:48:38 <Belugas> how come? where? since when? by whom?
13:49:20 <Roujin> how come? just said it. where? in the editor landscaping window. since when? long time i guess. by whom? someone i better not criticise :>
13:50:12 <Belugas> that remindds my SD card is not plugged
13:52:20 <Belugas> yeah... i've seen and liked
14:01:18 <Belugas> svn resolved town_gui.cp
14:01:31 * Belugas hates self inflicted conflicts
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14:27:06 <[1]Roujin> Ammler, planetmaker: I'm done updating. Where shall I put it?
14:27:47 <planetmaker> Hey, Roujin. Thx. Either add it to flyspray as an update or add it to the wwottdgd thread I'd say :)
14:28:10 <planetmaker> Or is there a seperate thread on ingame rivers? Dunno...
14:28:38 <[1]Roujin> nope, there isn't. added to flyspray
14:29:04 <planetmaker> Thx a lot. I'll give it a try to get it into the next wwottdgd alpha then :)
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14:38:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> what exactly is the sense of this "ingame river" patch?
14:39:09 <Roujin> oo my pc just rebooted without appearant reason :(
14:39:17 <LA> perhaps building rivers ingame? /me hides
14:40:41 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: it's for people who can't accept that 'man made waterway' == 'canal' ;)
14:41:29 <Belugas> craving for realism but fucking it up whenever it's convenient :S
14:43:19 <planetmaker> he. Works :) Updated todays alpha2 of wwottdgd.
14:43:38 <Roujin> I don't care. They asked, I delivered ;)
14:44:09 <planetmaker> The main intention is to be able to recover vandalism or carelessness of players who destroyed natural rivers
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14:44:34 <hylje> and arbitrary reroutings of existing rivers
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14:45:40 <planetmaker> A river won't be split in part by some track works like it can happen now - and this patch is the solution :)
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15:03:32 <Belugas> personally : make it so they cannot butcher rivers from beginning
15:04:01 <peter1138> i thought about that
15:04:17 <peter1138> but that makes no sense when you can flatten mountains
15:04:38 <Belugas> mountains cannot flood ;)
15:05:38 <Belugas> but yes, i do understant
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15:09:09 <planetmaker> But if you can build channels, it should be possible to (slightly) change the course of a river, too.
15:09:19 <planetmaker> On the other hand, people terraform too much anyway...
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15:21:53 <peter1138> canals or channels?
15:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> is there a difference?
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15:25:48 <Mchl> there's English Channel (a.k.a. La Manche) and Panama Canal
15:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, both translate to the same word in german
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15:38:48 <Belugas> not in french. we have "chenal" for channel, synonym of channelway
15:39:13 <Belugas> canal is accepted too, but has a very subtil difference
15:39:40 <Belugas> hehe and a very small channel is a "rigole"
15:39:57 <Touqen> A man, a plan, a canal; Panama!
15:41:22 <Mchl> not to mention Channel No5 etc...
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15:49:31 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13212 /branches/noai/ (16 files in 2 dirs):
15:49:31 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: introducing the ability to build trams. Use AIRoad.SetCurrentRoadType to switch to Trams, than all AIRoad functions will produce tram-objects.
15:49:31 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Note: please note that you need a tram-grf file for this to work. In all other cases AIRoad.IsRoadTypeAvailable(AIRoad.ROADTYPE_TRAM) will return false. Don't make your AI depend on trams, not everyone has a tram-grf!
16:01:35 * Touqen wonders if Belugas is in his time zone...
16:01:47 <Touqen> If that is the case, I might have to move.
16:02:13 * frosch123 thinks if someone else would wallpaper his flat, he could code more...
16:02:30 <Belugas> since i'm in Quebec, it's very unlikely you're nearby, Touqen :)
16:02:52 <Belugas> frosch123, bring the flat here, i'll do that ;)
16:05:00 <frosch123> np, I will just stuff it into the modem. (some kind of turning on the left side)
16:11:56 * Touqen is 6 hours away from Quebec.
16:13:14 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13213 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_station.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: missing @param
16:16:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13214 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_bridgelist.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: fix AIBridgeList_Length, as the max-length is weird (tnx Anton84)
16:22:30 <Belugas> Touqen, far enough so i would not bite you ;)
16:27:41 <Touqen> Let's call the whole thing off.
16:28:21 <Belugas> so close from here, it's not even the States anymore :)
16:28:28 <Belugas> it's the middle-zone!
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17:19:59 <pasky> so, how are things going?
17:21:43 <pasky> I'm wondering, is the generic tram set in svn, or only part of the nightlies? I'd expect anything in the nightly builds to be in the svn but it doesn't quite look so
17:23:46 <glx> wiki is correct, it says "feature availability" ;)
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18:47:53 <murr4y> any lionhead fans here?
18:47:59 <murr4y> for those waiting on fable 2:
18:48:11 <murr4y> 20:42 < Sam[WORK]> we are going to show Fable 2 being played
18:48:16 <murr4y> 20:43 < Sam[WORK]> the first public showing of the game ever
18:48:28 <murr4y> directly from sam, the community pet
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18:51:31 <Belugas> was not even aware that lionhead had a fable
18:51:40 <murr4y> from peter molyneux :)
18:51:52 <murr4y> the guy behind populous, magic carpet, black&white ++
18:55:08 <Mchl> i know to gamemakers by name: sid meyer and chris sawyer
18:55:30 <Mchl> other names tell me nothing
18:55:55 <Belugas> jean-francois claeys,
18:57:29 <Mchl> yeah... these I know too... but Ihave to lookup their names to attach them to nicknames :D
19:01:04 <bowman> fable felt too much like an mmo
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19:07:15 <peter1138> murr4y: wow, it's photorealistic :o
19:08:28 * peter1138 can't play fable as his xbox is dead :(
19:09:09 <bowman> thats normal, it was 4 years ago hehe
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19:15:32 <Ammler> Does someone know here Gotic, is that something similar?
19:17:57 <Touqen> What the hell is Gotic
19:19:04 <Ammler> the only game benear ttd I played :-)
19:20:33 <peter1138> s/know here/here know/
19:26:07 <bowman> gothic is at the opposite end of the rpg spectrum (the better one, imho)
19:27:06 <peter1138> wrong flag for english :(
19:27:38 <peter1138> always the first criteria for games ;)
19:27:42 <bowman> never actually played 3, 2 was great though :)
19:31:53 <Ammler> I still like 1 the most. :-)
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19:55:21 <Prof_Frink> Is that something to add to the instakick list?
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20:02:31 <dragonhorseboy> how're you smatz?
20:04:35 <SmatZ> nothing exceptional :-/ what about you, dragonhorseboy
20:05:29 <dragonhorseboy> doing fine - just trying to see if there's a german diesel that fits the requirement I was thinking of or not ^-^
20:06:58 <dragonhorseboy> if you maybe know I'm just curious for something for freights with light weight (3 axle or short-chassis trucks) but still able to work light fast trains as needed at times
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20:21:39 <dragonhorseboy> which of smatz if you don't mind me asking - what kind of locomotives do you like in general? heh
20:22:43 <SmatZ> dragonhorseboy: I don't have any preference
20:23:53 <dragonhorseboy> me well I'll admit to that I just like industrial railroads at times (not just point throttle open and watch random landscape pass by)
20:24:03 <dragonhorseboy> so well yeah thats a lot of different small locomotives
20:25:17 <Belugas> for myself, i'd go for a Locomotive Breath
20:37:47 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13215 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#2029]: enumify and comment Build Dock widgets (Roujin)
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20:44:35 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13216 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#2026]: enumify and comment Editor Terraform Toolbar widgets (Roujin)
20:45:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Bjarni
20:46:56 <ln> SmatZ: i strongly doubt you got 404.
20:48:43 <Bjarni> do anybody know a web site with technical data for Swedish trains?
20:48:52 <Bjarni> I saw one at one time but forgot the name
20:49:01 <Bjarni> and I want to know the technical stuff for Y6
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21:01:19 <kryzen> i found a bug (maybe not)
21:01:58 <kryzen> monorail was hurt by gravity...
21:02:26 <SmatZ> I am sometimes hurt by gravity, too
21:03:04 <kryzen> yes, we are, but monorail are different.
21:03:34 <SmatZ> did you turn off the realistic acceleration patch?
21:03:54 <kryzen> you don't find a little difference beween us and a monorail train ? Oo :p
21:04:25 <kryzen> ho sry i forget see that :'(
21:05:22 <kryzen> i'll test imediately ^^
21:07:27 <Tekky> Hi, I have a little question concerning applying patches with the "patch" program. The patch works if I specify -p0 but if I omit the -p option, it does not work. I would have thought that specifying -p0 would be identical to not specifying anything, since stripping 0 trailing slashes should be a nullop? This does not make sense to me?
21:07:55 <Bjarni> I wondered about the same thing
21:08:00 <Bjarni> but there is a difference
21:08:03 <SmatZ> "patch" is not developed by the OTTD dev ream
21:08:42 <glx> unless it's a git/hg diff, then I need -p1
21:08:51 <SmatZ> "man patch" exaplains everything for me...
21:09:09 <Bjarni> Tekky: the only answer you will get from us is that to get patch to work then you have to use the -p option
21:09:28 <Bjarni> if you want to know why then seek info elsewhere
21:09:35 <Ammler> hmm, maybe you could create a alias patch=patch -p0
21:09:45 <Bjarni> or #patch (whereever that might mbe)
21:10:04 <Bjarni> Ammler: that would suck if you need to use -p1 for once
21:10:22 <Tekky> SmatZ: I have no "man" command as I am not using linux.
21:10:32 <Ammler> should be overwritten like other tools as ls is
21:11:08 <Bjarni> Tekky: then you could try google
21:11:13 <Tekky> Bjarni: ah, ok, thx. I thought I was doing something stupid and that the answer was simple. But I guess the answer is not so easy.
21:11:17 <Bjarni> you could google for man pages first :P
21:11:48 <Tekky> I already read everything from patch --help
21:12:02 <Tekky> do man pages give you more info?
21:12:11 <Bjarni> usually they give you way more help
21:12:24 <Bjarni> man gcc is like a whole novel
21:13:23 <Tekky> ah, thx, the man page of patch explained everything to me. If you do not use the -p option, then it strips all directories and only uses filenames.
21:13:30 <Bjarni> I once had a course where gcc and make was part of what we should know at the exam
21:13:47 <Bjarni> so we got parts of the man page to read up on
21:13:52 <SmatZ> as nothing is really unified
21:14:07 <Bjarni> but it was a selected few pages
21:14:20 <Bjarni> and "the right way" is the way that works in the lab
21:14:24 <SmatZ> like switches and its meaning are different at different systems, different versions...
21:15:14 <Bjarni> basically we just needed to be able to compile using the libs and gcc we were given in the lab
21:15:53 <Bjarni> which means the task were much simpler than say making a makefile to make universal binaries of OpenTTD (which I had already written when I had the course)
21:16:19 <Bjarni> I didn't have much to do on the gcc/make introduction day
21:17:19 <Bjarni> basically the didn't demand that people knew it before taking the course and then we should all learn a minimum so we were able to solve the next task
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21:17:33 <kryzen> XD i go sleeping... to another day ^^
21:17:52 <kryzen> bye and have a good night.
21:18:17 <Bjarni> how do you know if you have a good night
21:18:29 <Bjarni> either it's bad because you want to go to sleep but can't for some reason
21:18:38 <Bjarni> or you go to sleep and can't remember the night
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21:21:17 <Bjarni> watt is something you use when you measure power
21:21:19 <k-man__> if i build a station next to a station that accepts goods, with the new station also accept goods?
21:22:08 <Bjarni> if you by "next to" mean that they touch each other then they will end up being the same station
21:22:17 <Bjarni> and then the answer is yes
21:22:31 <Bjarni> if they don't touch each other then the answer is maybe
21:23:56 <Tekky> when you look at http://svn.openttd.org/, why are there some release numbers missing? For example. there is no entry for 13214? Is this because the commit was reverted?
21:24:58 <SmatZ> Tekky: no, there are more branches
21:26:16 <Tekky> so the revision number is not branch-specific but refers to the state of the entire SVN repository?
21:27:07 <Tekky> thanks, I didn't know that.
21:28:11 <Bjarni> it makes some stuff easier when you know that one revision means something specific in all branches
21:28:31 <Bjarni> and not like cvs where the revision is file specific >_<
21:29:00 <hylje> or DVCSes where revision is gibberish
21:33:49 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Of course, it also means that you can see r811152 in a fairly new & small media player
21:34:16 <Bjarni> which is kind of interesting
21:34:33 <hylje> 8 hundred thousand revisions
21:34:54 <Prof_Frink> hylje: Well, it's in the svn of a larger project
21:35:00 <Bjarni> however a whole lot of revisions in CVS is not sure to give you a good code either
21:35:18 <Bjarni> if it has a lot of commits like "fix: typo"
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21:35:26 <Bjarni> and "last commit was a mistake"
21:37:29 <hylje> thank goodness for rewriting history
21:48:23 <Bjarni> once somebody figures out how to rewrite history then stuff will happen
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21:49:31 <Bjarni> like if a country is losing a war then they rewrite the incidents that lead to their defeat
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continue to next day ⏵
