IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2008-05-23
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00:28:35 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13217 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix: old AI was building small airports in years when they were not available in original game, causing small planes and helis everywhere
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00:34:47 <Mido> is it possible to make the AI less....retarded?
00:35:46 <SmatZ> but people keep complaining
00:35:54 <SmatZ> I think the effort is not worth it :-P
00:36:29 <murr4y> you openttd developers are my heroes
00:36:31 <Mido> but then theres no competition...no challenge
00:36:39 <murr4y> if it weren't for you i wouldn't be able to play this great game
00:37:12 <murr4y> and you're doing a great job on the ai
00:37:20 <murr4y> compare it to the original chris sawyer ai :D
00:37:40 <Mido> i never played the original
00:37:57 <Mido> i suppose that makes me a bit biases
00:38:07 <Mido> apparently i cant spell either
00:39:17 <Mido> honestly though what the game needs most is more popularity...theres always too few people on multiplayer
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00:42:29 <Touqen> I think Chris Sawyer deserves some credit considering the amount of horsepower he was working with.
00:42:57 <SmatZ> I think everybody admires his work
00:43:08 <SmatZ> and he is mentioned in game at several places
00:43:28 <SmatZ> and AI was a bit more effective in TTD
00:43:32 <Mido> well...his latest game isnt exactly all that popular...
00:44:06 <SmatZ> now, human players have all advantages - joining stations, presignals, longer trains, ....
00:44:21 <SmatZ> building on slopes, ...
00:44:41 <SmatZ> so it is harder for old AI to compete
00:46:22 <SmatZ> also, as Rubidium (I think) mentioned, AI doesn't really like "smoother" terrain generated by TGP
00:46:55 <SmatZ> the game has changed a lot, but AI hasn't ... that much
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00:52:15 <SmatZ> I think RCT series was/is popular :)
00:52:51 <SmatZ> but I like TTD (and TTO ;) the most
00:52:58 <Mido> <Touqen> Which was that?
00:53:04 <Mido> Chris Sawyers Locomotion
00:54:07 <Touqen> Locomotion is just akward to use.
00:54:55 <Mido> Chris should join the OTTD team
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01:00:33 <Frostregen> is there an equivalent to openttd.cfg: [win32]fullscreen_bpp = 32/8 under linux?
01:00:49 <Frostregen> or do i have to use the commandline parameter?
01:01:27 <SmatZ> it won't change anything
01:01:44 <SmatZ> it depends on what is SDL running above
01:02:12 <SmatZ> if you have 32bit bpp in X, then you will run openttd rendered for 32bpp display
01:02:13 <Frostregen> ok, so i need to start x with 8/32 bit depth?
01:02:27 <SmatZ> regarding performance...
01:02:32 <Frostregen> in windows it was a huge difference
01:02:44 <Frostregen> pallette anim versus tile update
01:02:54 <SmatZ> I am not sure if SDL supports hardware palette animation
01:03:32 <Frostregen> i think i saw a line in my xorg.log
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01:12:57 <Frostregen> do you know any 2D benchmark utility for plain x?
01:13:33 <Frostregen> because i have no idea what to expect from this machine
01:13:58 <Sacro> hmm, the cogs don't move
01:14:17 <Sacro> but am getting 85-9500 fps
01:14:52 <Frostregen> compiz does look like a 3D desktop?
01:15:16 <Frostregen> ah, just misunderstood you
01:15:33 <Frostregen> i don't expect 3D hardware accel to work on this machine
01:15:46 <Frostregen> so i need a plain 2D bench
01:18:50 <SmatZ> there can be sdl benchmark somewhere...
01:19:20 <SmatZ> yeah, you test how fast your CPU can render glxgears :)
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01:19:43 <Frostregen> is there some way to check if it is using hw accell?
01:20:41 <SmatZ> there is, but I forgot it
01:21:22 <Frostregen> looks like mesa-gl
01:22:58 <Frostregen> it is the third line anyway
01:23:03 <Frostregen> direct rendering: YES
01:23:15 <Sacro> X connection to localhost:11.0 broken (explicit kill or server shutdown).
01:23:54 <Frostregen> everywhere i read about it, they did not get hw accell to work with this board
01:24:23 <Frostregen> still openttd is quite sluggish
01:24:52 <SmatZ> Frostregen: did you disable animation?
01:25:14 <Frostregen> nope, just default
01:25:30 <SmatZ> disabling Full animation helps a lot
01:25:55 <Frostregen> it is mostly scrolling which does not feel smooth
01:26:09 <Frostregen> i try it with 8bpp first...mom
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01:30:06 <Frostregen> ok, disabled full animation makes it smooth
01:31:29 <Frostregen> do you think i have to disable full animation with a via c7-d 1,5GHz cpu?
01:31:43 <Frostregen> just for smooth scrolling, on an empty map?
01:32:00 <Belugas> hope you're happy now :D
01:32:11 <SmatZ> Frostregen: it depends how much water in the map is
01:32:23 <SmatZ> water animation takes most of the time
01:32:37 <Belugas> and i even added the link to download SF for this poor little tb2571989
01:32:38 <SmatZ> I play with animation disabled on a 4600+...
01:33:31 <Belugas> i always play without animation
01:33:47 <Belugas> on my 1.35, evey cpu cycle counts
01:33:51 <glx> else fast forward is not fast
01:33:59 * SmatZ thinks about removing animation from OTTD as no devs uses it :-P
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01:36:47 <Frostregen> hm, openttd uses 50% cpu, X 30, and something unrelated the rest
01:37:37 * Belugas thinks he'll do that, for once...
01:38:01 <Belugas> i have this dvd of myst IV awaiting me since eons...
01:40:27 <Belugas> just finishing a last round of checking on airport first...
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01:45:35 <Belugas> well... it works fine
01:46:47 <Belugas> damned.. when to think of it, ther's more to add...
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02:09:02 <Mido> can someone explain entry and exit symbols? i need to know how to make a rail one-way
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06:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> gaah... too early...
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08:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> how much must go wrong so that "svn cleanup" tells me i have to run "svn cleanup" first?!?
08:48:17 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause2: fucking pwned
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08:52:56 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13218 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/run.sh src/ai/api/ai_log.cpp): [NoAI] -Add: added a [S/E/P/W/I] in front of DEBUG messages from AILog, to indicate the level of message (the one that goes to the stdout) (request by Mchl)
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09:18:23 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13219 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AICargo.HasCargoClass(), which allows you to find, say, passenger-based cargo (tnx kuifware for the pointer!)
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09:46:52 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13220 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r13219: it has been a while, but I forgot to commit the regression update ;)
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12:20:15 <hylje> new compilers are so exciting
12:22:25 <SmatZ> openttd has much nicer changelog :)
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12:57:18 <SmatZ> It’s On The Internet, It Must Be True!
13:07:56 <Mchl> I'm sensing a logical problem
13:08:03 <Mchl> should i believe it, or not?
13:14:04 <Mchl> just, because someone on internet told me not to? :P
13:15:09 <SmatZ> [14:57:19] <SmatZ> It’s On The Internet, It Must Be True!
13:17:27 <Mchl> see? I can neither believe you or not.
13:17:32 <planetmaker> Michl: it's no logical problem... - you just need an additional source and pure logic :)
13:18:04 <Mchl> yep, additional source... varifiable I should add
13:19:32 <Mchl> and if you need additional source, ask google :D
13:26:49 <Bjarni> can anybody explain to me why somebody decided to port allegro to OSX for PPC only?
13:27:33 <Bjarni> and updated the port for 10.5 (read: when all new macs are x86 based)
13:30:23 <Roujin> Belugas: are you there?
13:30:30 * Bjarni wonders what will happen if he downloads the newest source tarball and compiles himself
13:34:46 <Bjarni> surprisingly configure sets the CPU to pentium and then compilation fails because pentium is unknown
13:36:50 * Bjarni declares the source screwed
13:40:03 * Bjarni tries the experimental version instead
13:40:35 <Bjarni> but it appears silly if the experimental version works and the stable dies right away
13:42:32 <Bjarni> they removed configure
13:42:42 <Bjarni> and the makefile appears to be borked :s
13:43:35 <Bjarni> if it's that hard for them to get it to just compile then I don't trust the code itself :P
13:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... this german dub is... polish...
13:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> what i mean... i have a movie, which is dubbed... but really badly... like one actor speaking all persons
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13:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> thus, like a polish dub ;)
13:48:59 <SmatZ> also, that neutral voice
13:49:23 <Mchl> yup... pretty much like polish dubs :P
13:50:00 <Mchl> though there have been some really well dubbed movies recently
13:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, they do actually have a male and a female person in this movie ;)
13:50:24 <Mchl> now that's one level above polish dubs
13:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah... but it's still far below any kind of "bad" german dub ;)
13:51:12 <Mchl> well... I remember watching some german dubbed movies whan I was a kid
13:51:47 <Mchl> David Hasselhoff in Knight Rider for example
13:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you can't do much wrong when synchronizing KITT :p
13:53:23 <Mchl> still... german speaking Hasselhoff... lol... it somehow desn't fit, even if his surname fits...
13:53:43 <Touqen> Don't hassle the hoff!
13:54:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it does fit if you are 7 years old and have never heard any other language before
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13:54:42 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> ... like one actor speaking all persons <-- this is how Danish TV decided on dubbing all Astrid Lindgren TV series >_<
13:55:01 <Bjarni> and you can hear Swedish in the background
13:55:25 <Bjarni> and I'm like "why dub Swedish into Danish when you do it so badly?"
13:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, temperature suddenly dropped by 5 degrees and it's starting to rain
13:56:02 <Roujin> hi there belugas.. you remember the editor lighthouse/desert issue i mentioned yesterday?
13:56:14 <Bjarni> and to make it perfect they selected semi famous people to dub (keeping the price down remember) and they picked people who I don't like
13:56:49 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: do you want to switch weather? Here it's sunny
13:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> you have the internets, get the original :p
13:57:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> it was sunny, 30 seconds ago
13:57:14 <Roujin> I made a patch to seperate it into two buttons which are at the same position, and the appropriate one is shown, the other hidden (i think this is the right way to do it..)
13:57:36 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> you have the internets, get the original :p <-- alternatively I just point the TV antenna towards Sweden
13:57:43 <Roujin> but should they keep the same hotkey?
13:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> that'd not do any good with a sattelite dish :p
13:58:32 <Belugas> Roujin, not really... yesterday has been buzy as hell. care to refresh my memory?
13:58:56 <Bjarni> if I get high enough (like if I cut all trees and is on the roof) then I can see the Swedish transmitter in the horizon. The signal quality of a normal antenna is... good enough for me ;)
13:59:20 <Roujin> editor -> landscaping window has a button that is "overloaded" for tropical climate
13:59:40 <Belugas> strange to read that from Bjarni: "If I get high enough..."
13:59:44 <Roujin> normally it is used for placing lighthouses, in tropic it places desert area
13:59:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> you could get up a hi... wait... forget i said anything :p
13:59:50 <Bjarni> in fact I have more Swedish than Danish channels and less noise on the Swedish channels
13:59:58 <Bjarni> sounds like I'm in Sweden or something :s
14:00:02 <Belugas> oh... yeah, Roujin, i remember. so? waht about it?
14:00:27 <Bjarni> not that kind of high :P
14:00:42 <Roujin> well, i've split them up in my patch, into seperate widgets, of which one is shown, the other hidden
14:01:02 <Bjarni> getting that kind of high while you are on the roof sounds somewhat unsafe
14:01:39 <Roujin> now i wonder how i should do the hotkeys: up until now, both functions have 'U' as hotkey - which is logical since it's only one button.
14:02:27 <Roujin> should I keep the same hotkey for the both of them, assuming that it will never be possible to have lighthouses and desert in one climate?
14:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a dangerous assumption, if you can easily avoid it
14:03:21 <Roujin> or seperate them to 'U' and 'I', of which one will be defunct in either one of tropic/other climates
14:03:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean, you don't have to actively prepare everything for multi-climate worlds, but you don't have to actively work against it either
14:03:55 <hylje> Bjarni: is it news that danes are lamers
14:04:05 <hylje> there's even a lolland in there
14:04:15 <Roujin> current hotkeys for that window are 'D' for dynamite, then QWERTYUI for the rest
14:04:47 <Bjarni> I have to remember that one :D
14:04:58 <Bjarni> since I know people living there
14:07:27 <Belugas> Roujin, you've created new guis??
14:08:18 <Roujin> erm, I changed the existing gui a bit
14:08:20 <Belugas> by the way, i am trying to find a decent way, with the new class window system, to have hotkeys and widget numbers linked and automatically chosen whenever available
14:08:34 <Belugas> not sure how, but fiddling with the idea
14:08:44 <Roujin> I changed the one button that up until now is used for both lighthouse and desert, to two buttons
14:08:55 <Roujin> of which one is used for each fuction
14:09:16 <Belugas> Roujin, right now, i cannot "think" nor approve nor read intelligently
14:09:17 <Roujin> they have the same location, and the one not available in the current climate is hidden.
14:09:35 <Belugas> but pm me your ideas, i'll try to get the time for them
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14:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> hotkeys in the config file!!
14:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> NewCustomizableHotkeys!!
14:18:22 <Belugas> I HAD THAT IDEA BEFORE YA!!
14:18:55 <Forked> caps lock day again :)
14:18:58 <Rubidium> and Maedhros will have it implemented partly before you
14:19:52 <Bjarni> toilets aren't for buts, but for butts
14:22:27 <peter1138> hmm, i need to set up gutters to fill my waterbutt
14:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> different kind of butt :p
14:25:02 * Belugas is too insane for IRC today
14:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> probably related to german "bottich", which would make it a tub/barrel kind of thing
14:28:34 <Roujin> in german, "butt" exists as well
14:28:39 <Roujin> but it means a kind of fish
14:29:10 <Roujin> there's even a book, named "der Butt" :P
14:29:13 <planetmaker> I wonder, was the maximum length of a line for ingame chat shortened?
14:29:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> a "Butt" is a main character in one of Grimms tales
14:30:21 <Bjarni> a "Butthead" is a main character is some MTV cartoon show
14:30:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> they did not derive that from the german meaning :p
14:31:15 <Bjarni> I'm not going to try but I guess if we google for "Butt" then we will see only one meaning
14:32:08 <SmatZ> googling for images with butt brings expected results
14:34:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> that can never be safe for work :p
14:34:05 <Bjarni> I'm not going to click that one
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14:35:13 <Bjarni> in a perfect world everything on the internet is safe for work
14:35:37 <murr4y> a perfect world cannot have an internet without porn! :O
14:35:39 <planetmaker> hehe. Desire and reality sometimes clash hard
14:36:01 <Bjarni> murr4y: you presume too much
14:36:14 <Bjarni> a perfect world might alter what is defined as safe for work
14:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, if you cannot change one end, change the other end :p
14:36:43 <Bjarni> no porn might actually be an interesting way to go
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14:37:55 <Bjarni> in a perfect world that aren't any talking skulls
14:38:07 <Bjarni> because people don't do drugs
14:38:33 <murr4y> are you insinuating that guybrush was on drugs during monkey island?
14:39:01 <Bjarni> he was on drugs in order to find monkey island in the first place
14:39:13 <Bjarni> he mixed stuff and then he had a blackout
14:39:20 <Bjarni> and there it was... Monkey Island
14:39:53 <murr4y> but finding me wasn't him dreaming!
14:40:37 <Bjarni> it were the guys at Lucasarts dreaming
14:51:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> i remember my brother (who was like 7 or 8 back then) who wanted to have a 3rd part where you run around the theme park (from the end of part 2) :p
14:52:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> "Orginaltitel: Monkey Island 2 - LeChuck's Revenge; Erschienen: 1991; Sprache: deutsch; Altersempfehlung: ab 16 (Fragt nicht wieso, wir wissen es auch nicht)" <- result from google
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15:00:58 <Bjarni> I guess 16 because it contains black magic and voodoo dolls
15:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, part 1 is 12
15:02:07 <Belugas> Getting high, now, getting drunk!
15:02:22 <murr4y> yeah if i had a 15 year old son, now way if i'd let him play mi2
15:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i was like 12 or so ;)
15:04:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> and it did not hurt me a bit :p
15:05:02 <murr4y> well we all see how you ended up
15:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> it hardly couts as "pwned" if i provoked that exact answer :p
15:07:55 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause2> and it did not hurt me a bit :p <-- you didn't notice what happened but the rest of us can tell
15:08:26 <Bjarni> now I know why it's 16 while the first one is 12
15:09:04 <Bjarni> ghosts gives a min age of 12 while rotting corpses gives a min age of 16 as they smell worse
15:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> but part 1 did have a rotting corpse
15:10:35 <Roujin> sorry for my sudden disappearance
15:10:49 <Roujin> my wlan decided not to work anymore suddenly
15:12:22 <murr4y> after 5 years with learning german in school i still barely understand it :p
15:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it starts with: "don't try to call this number from germany" :p
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15:15:28 <[1]Roujin> something is seriously wrong with my pc right now ><
15:16:06 <murr4y> sounds like a bad case of windows :/
15:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the second question is "where do all these stupid jokes come from?" - "we don't have anything to do with the german jokes. the translator had to come up with them on his own. rumor says he constantly cursed about the untranslatable english jokes" :p
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15:18:17 <Prof_Frink> Everyone *knows* the Germans have no sense of humour.
15:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> at some time i'll actually have to play these games in english
15:23:17 <[1]Roujin> Belugas: I've added the thing I was talking about earlier to flyspray.
15:24:13 <Belugas> that is like calling over the phone to ask if i've received the email !
15:31:59 <peter1138> happens all the time :(
15:34:10 <Belugas> yeah... we cannot procrastinate quietly anymore...
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15:35:04 <Touqen> I procastinate openly and with vigor.
15:35:10 <Touqen> I AM CURRENTLY PROCASTINATING!
15:35:26 <Touqen> Feel my procastiwrath!
15:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> "pro casting"... is that an <insert country> idol fan?
15:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> i tried that... it was the worst idea in my life! (well, almost)
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15:52:50 <Touqen> Err.. I meant "procrastiwrath".
15:53:00 <Touqen> Damned fingers have betrayed me again.
15:56:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> off with their heads!
15:57:41 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13221 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix (r8747): old AI failed to build oil rig routes
16:09:11 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13222 /trunk/src/ (ai/default/default.cpp table/ai_rail.h): -Change: allow old AI building helistations and helidepots for oil rig routes
16:19:25 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13223 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_bridge.cpp ai_tunnel.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix (r13212): tunnels and bridges were not tram aware
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18:16:14 <murr4y> that would be a cool place to work
18:17:23 <murr4y> and the first girl is damn cute
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18:18:52 * Belugas would not work with a tie on a daily basis...no way...
18:19:17 <Sacro> she can come sit on my flagpole
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18:25:38 <Belugas> 563 downloads of 0.6.1 rc2 for win32, and 1045 in total
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18:28:22 <Touqen> Another X-Files movie?!
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18:44:14 <Maedhros> i don't remember that guy ever speaking, but i always recognise him instantly when he leaves...
18:44:59 <Touqen> I want to know what it is that he is talking about.
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18:50:10 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: a1270 was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 8 hours, 58 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: * a1270 had forgotten he was going to do that
18:50:46 <Mchl> I googled it. It's a comment to a movie on IMdB
18:51:05 <murr4y> copyright infringement!
18:51:27 <Mchl> Don't know if comments are copyrighted... And then it could be his own :P
18:53:45 <Touqen> Author: EVOL666 from St. John's Abortion Clinic <-- The person who posted the comment.
18:56:39 <Touqen> Apparently the comment was made about some weird 1972 japanese movie.
18:57:35 <Prof_Frink> Aaah, those crazy japs
18:57:42 <Prof_Frink> What will they think of next?
18:58:07 <Touqen> They've actually already thought of everything.
18:58:29 <Touqen> They keep their ideas locked up in a giant vault deep within Mt Fuji.
18:58:39 <Touqen> They pull them out periodically and share them with the world.
18:59:01 <Mchl> makes me wonder, if they do it randomly, or using some kind of system
19:14:18 <frosch123> having different keyboard layouts at home and at work is plain hell
19:15:04 <Bjarni> having one keyboardlayout at home, one at the lab and a 3rd one when I connect to the lab from home is a real pain
19:15:15 <Bjarni> specially because #1 and #3 are the same physical keyboard
19:17:41 <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> What will they think of next? <--- today they broadcasted a recording of a flying fish
19:18:02 <Bjarni> you know one of those jumping fish from the Pacific Ocean
19:18:36 <Bjarni> it broke the known record for those fish to be jumping/flying in the air by 3 sec
19:18:45 <Bjarni> so now the record is 45 sec outside the water
19:19:02 <Bjarni> what the next thing they will come up with... well I have no idea
19:19:35 <Prof_Frink> With any luck it'll be giant robots
19:20:10 <Bjarni> I saw some Japanese robots and androids on TV a few days ago
19:20:41 <Bjarni> they talked about a test where people had a brief moment to tell if an android was a human or an android
19:20:49 <Prof_Frink> Were they the size of skyscrapers, with miniguns, lasers and flamethrowers?
19:20:54 <Bjarni> when it moved more than 50% classified it as a human
19:21:08 <Prof_Frink> Are you classified as human?
19:21:33 <Bjarni> otherwise they can't hide in the normal population until they activate their killer weapons
19:21:35 <Mchl> i want my personal EVA01 unit
19:21:40 <Bjarni> or hide again afterwards
19:22:19 <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> Are you classified as human? <--- is your opinion of me so dim that you can even ask if I'm classified as something like that???
19:22:44 <Prof_Frink> No, I expected you to complete the quote.
19:22:46 <Bjarni> but maybe that's how humans like to think
19:23:22 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: that would be a human quote, no doubt
19:23:27 <Bjarni> otherwise I would know it
19:23:52 <Mchl> maybe question should be: do you classify yourself as a human?... now I'd better don;t ask that myself, or I will go into infinite loop
19:24:27 <Bjarni> sometimes I end up being in loops
19:24:28 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Seriously, you don't know that quote?
19:24:43 <Bjarni> like I wake up every day
19:24:57 <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: I have never seen it before
19:25:51 <Prof_Frink> Bruce Willis' response is "Negative, I am a meat popsicle."
19:28:34 <Touqen> It's kind of long though
19:28:47 <Bjarni> and I don't think I will watch Bruce Willis in the role of a meat popsicle
19:29:01 <Bjarni> sounds like a weird movie
19:29:24 <Bjarni> that not the same as it's supposed to be weird
19:29:35 <Touqen> It's got Milla Jovovich in it.
19:29:55 <Mchl> that's a good movie, I second that
19:30:07 <Prof_Frink> It's got Milla Jovovich wearing very little in it.
19:42:47 <Prof_Frink> Well, that's sorted one question
20:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Maedhros> i don't remember that guy ever speaking, but i always recognise him instantly when he leaves... <- i do remember that he spoke, if only to explain his quitmessage, though :p
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20:30:09 <dragonhorseboy> so how're both of you?
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20:33:10 <Touqen> That reminds me to go look at icanhascheezeburger
20:34:20 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 4 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Bjarni> that not the same as it's supposed to be weird
20:44:08 <Mark> imho the max. line length is way too short in the latest nightly
20:44:53 <Belugas> max line lenght... care to expand on the subject?
20:49:36 <Belugas> Mark? I'm talking to you.
20:51:02 <Mark> the maximum amount of characters you can type on a single line in multiplayer
20:51:19 <glx> limited by packet size I think
20:51:24 <Belugas> it has changed recently?
20:51:27 <Mark> it changed only recently
20:51:49 <Mark> it wasnt this low in r13032, it is in r13210
20:52:15 <Belugas> 178 revisions to check :S
20:52:16 <glx> can you try to find when it happened?
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21:05:11 <Mchl> r13042 does something to NetworkChatWindow
21:10:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i need something to eat
21:21:54 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai
21:27:46 <Bjarni> Sacro: don't highlight me while I'm hiding
21:29:05 <Touqen> You could just not respond...
21:29:47 <Sacro> Bjarni: don't highlight me either
21:33:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro, Bjarni, you know deep down in your harts that you love each other... you sure act like it :p
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21:34:40 *** Sacro was kicked by Bjarni (now do what my heart wants me to do)
21:35:19 <Mchl> whoever localised my IRC client, screwed up his job
21:35:56 <Bjarni> like the English translation of Simutrans?
21:36:02 <Bjarni> it has German words in it
21:36:19 <Bjarni> the Danish translation has half the strings in German
21:36:21 <Mchl> nah... but it just said you were kicked by Sacro
21:36:59 <Mchl> well almost, because it also failed to use proper grammar
21:37:10 <Bjarni> well when I test Simutrans (yes I do that once in a while but not often) then I'm happy that I actually know German
21:37:56 <Bjarni> I was about to ask you what it said but that would be pointless
21:38:35 <Bjarni> which created a rather interesting situation last year
21:38:48 <Mchl> in general it failed at using passive voice properly
21:39:08 <Mchl> nah... that's not passive voice...
21:39:14 <Bjarni> some Polish workers dug up the sidewalk outside my house and those workers knew only Polish
21:39:27 <Bjarni> which made communication a bit tricky
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21:40:30 <Mchl> I'm sure they knew Danish very well
21:40:44 <Mchl> in fact, they were spies, and only pretended to be clueless
21:41:21 <Bjarni> we did have to communicate with them once in a while though
21:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> lot's of spies out there now ;)
21:41:36 <Bjarni> because of all the houses on the road only our driveway caused problems
21:42:43 <Mchl> they were probably infiltrating OpenTTD development center, so that polish national rail comapny could benefit of its technology
21:43:16 <Bjarni> they worked really hard on repairing it (took days) and in the end when they were nearly done and we could see that it would look really good I found a Polish dictionary and figured out how to write "good job" or something like that and wrote it down and gave them the note
21:43:19 <Bjarni> they became really happy
21:43:51 <Bjarni> I had no clue on how to actually say what I wrote though
21:45:04 <Mchl> well, if you ever recall it, ask me and I'll tell you how to say it :)
21:45:55 <Bjarni> I think the impact on such a note were greater than usual because they knew that nobody in the area speak Polish
21:46:14 <Bjarni> meaning they knew that somebody actually spent time figuring out how to write Polish
21:50:05 <Bjarni> oh another story involving Polish. I was standing in a crowd where everybody had high visibility vests (those orange thing railroad workers wear) on and a lorry stopped
21:50:19 <Bjarni> the driver then said something in Polish and nobody understood him
21:50:40 <Bjarni> his solution: say the very same thing except this time he said it louder
21:50:51 <Mchl> how did you know it was Polish? Is it that recognizable?
21:51:17 <Bjarni> we presume it to be Polish when we don't understand it :P
21:51:18 <Mchl> lol... like in Terry's Pratchett book
21:51:28 <Bjarni> besides the license plate also gave us a clue
21:51:53 <Mchl> yeah... that's a clue :)
21:52:22 <Bjarni> we (the locals) agreed that he wasn't supposed to be on the railroad area so we pointed to a place where he could turn around
21:52:46 <Bjarni> so he drove to that place and came back a moment later, very happy and waving
21:52:53 <Mchl> his line of reasoning: guys in HV vests! must be Poles! :D
21:53:59 <Bjarni> but I would presume people in HV vests standing somewhere with tracks everywhere and railroad logo on the back to be railroad workers
21:54:03 <Bjarni> and they are usually locals
21:54:34 <Mchl> you must know railroad logo first ;)
21:54:41 <Bjarni> it was actually right outside the main locomotive repairshop in Copenhagen
21:55:23 <Bjarni> <Mchl> you must know railroad logo first ;) <-- it's a wheel with wings.... it's a symbol of a railroad even to people who haven't seen it before
21:56:40 <Bjarni> this combined with track everywhere (including on the road) and locomotives parked everywhere should give a clue that this could be railroad crew
21:57:50 <Mchl> yeah... probably it should
21:57:57 <Mchl> trams in warsaw have similar logo
21:58:37 <Bjarni> makes sense for a system using catenary
21:58:53 <Bjarni> our symbol is a leftover from the steam era
22:00:09 <Bjarni> nobody asked me what I was doing there :P
22:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> don't act like you have any catenary :p
22:00:32 <Bjarni> I didn't plan on standing there guiding lost lorry drivers
22:01:01 <Mchl> oh...is it not your regular job?
22:01:11 <Bjarni> we have a 1500 V DC catenary set and a 25 kV AC catenary set
22:02:02 <Bjarni> basically it means "don't get near"
22:02:24 <Bjarni> as it can jump 3 cm or so though air
22:02:43 <Bjarni> and more if it's a wet weather or the air contains ions or something
22:02:51 <Bjarni> safety distance is actually 1,75 m
22:03:10 <Bjarni> and it's 5 meters if they fall down
22:03:53 <Bjarni> <Mchl> oh...is it not your regular job? <-- I'm an engineering student so no
22:04:23 <Bjarni> are you as good as I am?
22:04:24 <Mchl> what is this 25kV catenary for?
22:04:51 <Bjarni> if you answer my question then I will answer yours
22:05:45 <Mchl> I should've passed my final exams two years ago, so I expect I'm pretty good at studying, but not finishing studies :P
22:06:30 <Bjarni> ok now I owe you an answer
22:06:36 <Bjarni> <Mchl> what is this 25kV catenary for? <-- it's for powering trains
22:07:18 <Mchl> AFAIK rails on poland operate on 3kV
22:07:53 <Bjarni> the thing is that we got 1500 V DC in 1934 for EMUs in the Copenhagen area
22:08:03 <Bjarni> and everything else were using steam
22:08:21 <Bjarni> then the railroads switched to diesel
22:08:32 <Bjarni> and in 1984 the first long distance catenary were put up
22:09:20 <Bjarni> at this time AC wasn't an issue for electric engines (it was in the 1930s) so AC was picked (50 Hz since it's easy to get)
22:10:35 <Bjarni> and as we all know U=RI and P=R*I*I so the powerloss is I^2 and unaffected by the voltage in the lines
22:10:45 <Bjarni> so you want high voltage and low current
22:11:05 <Bjarni> the locomotives are then basically a big transformer
22:11:29 <Bjarni> to get high current and lower voltage as it's current that gives the forward force in the engine
22:11:57 <Bjarni> you can't use a transformer on DC supply
22:12:06 <Bjarni> ok you can today but not back then
22:12:30 <Mchl> your locomotives have totalu diffirent construction than ours
22:12:44 <Bjarni> this means that the strongest locomotive we ever had is actually an electric one
22:13:10 <Bjarni> and is used to haul freight trains between Sweden and Germany
22:13:41 <Bjarni> no DC catenary can deliver enough energy to do that
22:14:01 <Bjarni> the freight trains usually drive 100 km/h
22:14:45 <Bjarni> we lack a lot of catenary though :(
22:15:14 <Zuu> At least most countries use mainly 1435mm track width, and then just various electricity systems. :)
22:15:32 <Mchl> strongest electric locomotive polish rail operates would deliver some 6500HP
22:15:46 <Zuu> Easier to make locomotives that goes on different electricity systems than different track widths.
22:15:46 <Bjarni> basically we only have on the line from Sweden to Germany (EU demanded that) and on the line from Copenhagen pointing north (since this is the line they used to test the system before building it at a large scale)
22:15:51 <Bjarni> this might change now though
22:16:00 <guru3> i've got a bike. it's got one people power
22:16:25 <Bjarni> the railroad ordered intercity DMUs
22:16:32 <Bjarni> now they are 5 years late
22:16:58 <Bjarni> the factory have to deliver them within a year or the contact is off
22:16:59 <Prof_Frink> Mchl: It'd have better traction if they didn't polish the rail so much.
22:17:26 <Bjarni> if the contract is off then electric trains are likely to be ordered instead and the politicians will find the money needed to put up catenary
22:18:02 <Bjarni> <Mchl> so it is mainly diesel? <-- yeah because the leftish politicians backed out of their own plan to put up catenary
22:19:27 <Zuu> No offence, but If you want to be little evil: Danish power is mostly coal, so diesel or electric powered trains is just the same in Denmark environment wise. ;)
22:19:39 <Mchl> just found out, we have six locomotives with 7500HP power :D
22:19:40 * Sacro enjoys polishing the rail
22:20:01 <Bjarni> a big bug came flying and landed on my lips >_<
22:20:18 <Mchl> quick! post in on flyspray!
22:20:35 <Mchl> oh, that was horrible...
22:20:36 <Zuu> But then, if environment certificated electricty exist in Denmark they could use that and say it's environment friendly. :)
22:20:41 <Bjarni> my quick actions made the bug go away already
22:20:51 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
22:21:10 <Bjarni> Zuu: they talk about using power from windmills
22:21:31 <Bjarni> nobody asked them what they will do on a day with no wind though
22:21:54 <Mchl> wind powered trains... wonder haw that would sell
22:22:14 <guru3> passangers could bicycle it when there's no wind
22:22:33 <Bjarni> the windmills only produce 116 MW right now
22:22:49 <Bjarni> they usually give like 1-2000
22:22:55 <Bjarni> 2500 when it's a storm
22:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Mchl> what is this 25kV catenary for? <- it is to comply to an EU regulation to electrify the route from germany to sweden, but they decided to not use the same system as both germany and sweden use (which both have 15kV)
22:23:22 <Bjarni> but right now the wind is around the trigger moment for them to just start producing anything
22:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> 25kV is also standard in france (northern half, i believe)
22:23:54 <Bjarni> less than half of France
22:24:05 <Bjarni> and in some country in the East too
22:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> the TGV system is 25kV, i think
22:24:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> Romania, i thought
22:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> at least afair we sold our 25kV engines (from the Rübelandbahn) there
22:25:16 <Bjarni> normal Japanese gauge is 1067 mm and they use almost exclusively DC (1500 and 3000V). However Shinkansen have a railnet of it's own because they use a gauge of 1435 mm and 25 kV 50 Hz AC
22:25:31 <Zuu> In south of Sweden Malmö-Ystand they have wind-powered trains where they have put up a wind mill close to the track and a sign that the trains are powered by that wind mill. :)
22:25:35 <Bjarni> meaning that at least in theory we could use Shinkansen in Denmark without altering anything
22:26:20 <Prof_Frink> Whereas in the UK we could use donkeys and it would be an improvement
22:26:45 <Bjarni> we once had a visiting TGV in Copenhagen
22:27:15 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: compared to hull women...
22:27:21 <Bjarni> some politicians paid a fortune to rent a TGV, an X2000, an ICE3 and some Italian train and put them on display
22:27:28 <Bjarni> since they wanted high speed trains in Denmark
22:27:49 <Prof_Frink> Speaking of Shinky, orudge found something on the Top Gear Blog
22:27:52 <Bjarni> the only result was that I was able to try sitting in the driver's seat on a TGV
22:28:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> how are the ICE-TD doing anyway?
22:28:01 <Bjarni> we didn't get any better trains or faster or anything
22:28:23 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: they were on the news the other day
22:28:36 <Bjarni> as the train with decent comfort
22:28:39 <ln> had to install Thunderbird because Apple's Mail failedd
22:28:45 <Bjarni> meaning everything else is supposed to be really bad
22:29:00 <Bjarni> mail never failed on me
22:29:40 <ln> Bjarni: IMAPS on a non-standard port... won't connect.
22:29:42 <guru3> oh snap, when did 0.6.0 come out?
22:30:03 <ln> Bjarni: or actually, netstat says there is a connection, but Mail itself doesn't know it.
22:30:21 <Mchl> so ICE-TB goes for 'decent stadard' in Denmark?
22:30:23 <guru3> well i'm behind... any good new features?
22:31:04 <Mchl> an average long sistance polish train would be substadard i suppose
22:31:25 <Rubidium> guru3: new features since when?
22:31:38 <Bjarni> one sec... making some screenshots from the news broadcast where they talked about it
22:31:45 <guru3> i think that's the last one i played
22:31:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> guru3: there's a changelog ;)
22:31:49 <Bjarni> more or less by random I recorded it
22:32:34 <Zuu> guru3: drive through stops, diagonal track under bridges (infact in any direction + signals), ...
22:32:53 <Rubidium> some more newgrf support
22:33:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> "some" like industries ;)
22:33:15 <guru3> i'm still waiting for the new graphics i guess
22:33:15 <Rubidium> like trams and new [cargos|houses|industries]
22:33:20 <Zuu> more advanced Autosignal I think.
22:33:39 <Rubidium> 0.6.0 has a 32bpp blitter
22:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> guru3: the functionality is there
22:34:06 <Rubidium> it's just that there is absolutely no graphicset complete enough to be even thinking of including it
22:34:28 <guru3> the very nature of 32bit requires cool graphics
22:34:32 <Zuu> Also, oneway roads is in 0.6.0.
22:34:36 <guru3> which i'm utterly incapable of creating myself
22:36:10 <Bjarni> even when they were 20 years old a tourist asked my mom if she had entered 1st class by mistake because she thought it was so good on the inside
22:36:26 <Bjarni> but now the very same train is crap according to the media
22:37:06 <Bjarni> but I guess ICE3-TD is better yes
22:37:11 <Bjarni> but also more expensive
22:37:54 <Bjarni> and I have to say that they did some detective job
22:38:04 <Bjarni> they managed to find a car with rust on it
22:38:33 <Mchl> they would't have to look for it in Poland...
22:39:00 <Bjarni> what the story didn't tell is that the car they looked at was at the time they showed this already marked for scrapping within a year
22:39:46 <Bjarni> you don't fix severe rust problems like that and then scrap the car say 3 months later
22:40:07 <Mchl> here's mainly used rain for local service in poland
22:40:26 <Mchl> most of them look like those on top photo
22:40:41 <Mchl> usually with graffitti on sides
22:41:16 <Mchl> some of them have been renovated, as can beseen below
22:41:16 <Bjarni> but that's not the same as they are bad
22:41:22 <Mchl> yup... 'dated' is the word
22:41:54 <Mchl> not really bad, and apparently you can rebuild them pretty easily into modern shape
22:42:17 <Mchl> but in general they're poorly maintained
22:43:14 <Mchl> that's what can be build basing on these trains :)
22:43:47 <Sacro> No file by this name exists. You can upload it.
22:43:57 <Sacro> Image:P¥gat¥g p¥ v¤g in till K¤vlinge station.jpg
22:44:21 <Mchl> yup... encoding problems
22:44:34 * Sacro slaps Bjarni with utf8 complience
22:44:36 <Bjarni> I type the right thing
22:44:46 <Bjarni> and then IRC change it and colours it green :s
22:45:11 <Bjarni> I will find another pic of the same train
22:48:30 <Bjarni> they have their limitations like you can't walk from one end to the other and such but generally they should be ok
22:48:51 <Bjarni> Zuu: can you support that statement?
22:49:13 <Bjarni> <Mchl> and look nice <-- they are refitted to get modern headlights and such
22:49:22 <Bjarni> the old ones looked a bit different
22:50:03 <Bjarni> Pågatåg are good for the passengers and crew
22:50:04 <Mchl> someof them even get new asynchronic engines
22:50:45 <Zuu> Or more purple to be more exact.
22:50:48 <Mchl> just don't let anyone from MTV see it
22:51:00 <Mchl> ar they'll adopt it for another silly program
22:51:09 <Bjarni> <Mchl> someof them even get new asynchronic engines <-- DC engines has a max efficiency of 90%. Async engines (AC) has a max efficiency around 99%
22:51:17 <Bjarni> and are cheaper to maintain
22:51:51 <Bjarni> so switching the engines can be good from an economical point of view
22:52:16 <Bjarni> Mchl: what kind of engineering are you studying?
22:53:31 <Bjarni> it's a simple question... I really hope you don't have to look it up :P
22:54:23 <Zuu> At least the new trains will also be of the same purple colour, so passengers will not become totaly lost. :p
22:55:24 <Bjarni> when DSB got new white trains (old ones were red at the time) then I saw two old people waiting for the train. When the train looked wrong they didn't want to use it... they were waiting for a red train
22:55:48 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13224 /trunk/src/player_gui.cpp: -Fix (r13107): set the location of the old SelectPlayerFaceWindow when switching from simple to advanced or vice versa instead of letting the new window popup somewhere 'randomly'.
22:55:49 <guru3> what!? they're not red anymore!?
22:55:56 <Bjarni> then somebody tried to convince them that it was a new train on the very same line
22:56:11 <Bjarni> guru3: now they are all sorts of colours
22:56:28 * guru3 remembers when they were all red
22:56:31 <Bjarni> but mainly silver, blue or blue/white stripes
22:56:41 <guru3> thought they'd all be red still
22:56:50 <Bjarni> * guru3 remembers when they were all red <-- those were the good old days
22:57:22 <guru3> another childhood memory disillusioned :<
22:57:40 <Bjarni> somebody got the idea that red is the national colour so the trains shouldn't use it anymore as it changed from being the state railroad to a state owned railroad
22:58:26 <Bjarni> guru3: my train is in the original colours and you are always welcome to ride with me ;)
22:59:07 <Bjarni> we have the tickets as the only income
22:59:18 <guru3> i'm... not exactly near denmark anymore
22:59:30 <guru3> but it's more than a day trip
22:59:59 <Bjarni> but Sweden is just on the other side...
23:00:08 <guru3> i'm studying at university in england now
23:00:41 <guru3> because i don't speak swedish
23:00:43 <Rubidium> he wants to learn English?
23:00:50 <guru3> and no english UG programs in sweden
23:01:25 <guru3> anything cool like regional openttd meets?
23:01:30 <Bjarni> <guru3> because i don't speak swedish <-- isn't that like common for young people in Sweden?
23:01:43 <guru3> i only lived there 3 years
23:02:07 <Zuu> Bjarni: What is the common language of young Swedes then?
23:02:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13225 /trunk/src/ (12 files):
23:02:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix (r13041): Missing calls to FindWindowPlacementAndResize() from lots
23:02:27 <CIA-3> OpenTTD: of windows causing 'two stage' opening effect.
23:03:19 <Bjarni> <Zuu> Bjarni: What is the common language of young Swedes then? <-- Swedish like Engrish?
23:03:58 <Bjarni> guru3: what is your native language?
23:04:57 <Bjarni> how come you have a Telia DNS if you are in the UK?
23:05:08 <guru3> i still have my computer on at home
23:05:20 <guru3> ssh -> screen -> irssi -> oftc
23:06:29 <Bjarni> how come you ended up in Sweden then?
23:08:25 <guru3> 'twas only my highschool life
23:09:51 <guru3> well, they're either not contagious or i have a natural immunity
23:10:08 <Bjarni> <Zuu> Are we that bad? ;) <-- yes
23:10:18 <Bjarni> at least at understanding Danish numbers
23:10:43 <Zuu> but then you use a weird system..
23:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have not been exposed to swedes yet
23:10:47 <guru3> well... danish isn't too innocent either. it does have that o with the line through it
23:11:25 <guru3> don't get me started on those ones Zuu
23:11:48 <Bjarni> Zuu: I think you have seen it before so don't stare with your mouth open like that
23:12:57 <Bjarni> the guys who decided on the name for the bridge between Denmark and Sweden didn't think very well about it
23:13:12 <Bjarni> because they decided on Øresundsbron
23:13:48 <Bjarni> except the first char is "Ø+¨", which isn't an UTF char
23:14:02 <Bjarni> so nobody can write it on computers
23:14:44 <Bjarni> now that's brilliant for a bridge that's so new that people already had computers and email when it was opened
23:15:04 <Bjarni> nobody can write the name of it....
23:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> you mean they combined Ö with Ø?
23:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> what an exceptionally stupid idea :p
23:15:58 <Bjarni> but really bad on keyboards
23:16:01 * guru3 muters about incomplete utf support
23:18:24 <Bjarni> they even have problems with it on their homepage
23:18:39 <Zuu> Yet people use the local version of Ö out of convenience
23:19:55 <Bjarni> if I see this creative letter anywhere then I will take a picture of it and show you guys
23:20:08 <Zuu> And looks like the Danes got their Ø in practice on the website. :)
23:22:42 <guru3> it seems turning utf8 on in screen
23:23:05 <Sacro> guru3: what term are you using?
23:23:12 <Sacro> i have to set putty to utf8
23:23:23 <Sacro> and then make sure :utf8 on
23:23:56 <guru3> is it bad that that variable isn't set? :S
23:24:11 <Bjarni> actually now that I think about it I think it's the trains that has that new letter while the bridge is officially spelled with Ø and ends on "bron" so it's a mix of Danish and Swedish
23:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> LANG=de_DE.UTF-8
23:29:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> and lots of LC_*
23:30:47 <Sacro> yeah, i use LANG=en_GB.UTF-8
23:33:47 <guru3> export LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8"
23:33:47 <guru3> export LANG="en_US.UTF-8"
23:34:50 <guru3> first time ive ever gotten full unicode support working
23:35:11 <Bjarni> I just typed .cm instead of .com and somebody actually owned the site I then ended up at
23:35:27 <Bjarni> and naturally they wanted to sell me something
23:35:48 <Bjarni> talk about bad business morale
23:45:29 *** Nite_Owl has joined #openttd
continue to next day ⏵
