IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-07-30
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03:27:25 <locosage> there a ways to make trees without storing anything on the map
03:29:03 <locosage> all you need is a couple of general areas in kd-tree or smth
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07:09:52 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
07:21:58 * peter1138 ponders rearranging trees again :o
07:47:12 <LordAro> but you only just did it!
07:52:09 <rito12_13> Will we have bata 3?
07:53:16 <_zephyris> I'll think a bit more, but still erring towards a tree definition rather than tile definition (as your current implementation does)
07:53:36 <_zephyris> Anim/season is somewhat separate I suppose, so could experiment and test perf impact later
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08:08:26 <peter1138> I don't think it's practical.
08:20:26 <peter1138> Probably the Hotkey system should have a momentary (key press) or constant (key down) flag, and then the main viewport window should handle via hotkeys instead of every video driver having special code.
08:20:36 <_zephyris> Which bit? The animation or the tree vs tile definition?
09:27:32 <andythenorth_> I should modify Horse, current HST is dualhead
09:34:15 <peter1138> As I prefer to say, let the player do stuff :)
10:39:10 <peter1138> Bah, it's enhottinating again.
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13:32:06 <will_marshall_> four hours of company meeting i am ready for a heavy lunch
13:39:54 <talltyler> Heavy lunch to sleep through the afternoon meeting?
14:05:13 <will_marshall_> liquid lunch to forget the things i heard that have made my head hurt
14:52:38 <peter1138> Get Claude to write everything?
15:27:10 <_zephyris> Looking at `_tree_layout_sprite` in `tree_land.h`, is that essentially pseudo-random?
15:30:34 <_zephyris> So the biases would be for stylistic/artistic tile variation, but not something more profound than that?
15:32:31 <peter1138> No, there are biases in the data.
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17:32:39 <andythenorth_> peter1138: there's a wind turbine grf somewhere
17:32:43 <andythenorth_> zeph made the sprites
17:55:26 <andythenorth_> I can't help feeling some guilt
17:55:36 <andythenorth_> but FIRS doesn't support translations
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18:06:02 <efemert12457> How can I translate the documentation on the OpenTTD website into my own language?
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18:25:37 <andythenorth_> I should probably change the project structure to eliminate lang
18:28:41 <rito12_13> efemert12457: you can translate the wiki, just need to login by github
18:29:19 <efemert12457> rito12_13: I logged in with Github but couldn't proceed.
18:31:59 <rito12_13> What is your language?
18:34:26 <_zephyris> peter1138[d]: How about (pre)generating a tree tile layout table, based on the tree NewGRFs loaded and any class/pairing rules?
18:35:13 <_zephyris> Then could have some mildly intelligent default classes/pairings for vanilla trees - or just treat them all as equivalent and randomly select if loaded with a newgrf
18:45:45 <rito12_13> benchmarking is hard
18:54:08 <locosage> oh, a tool that actually does sanity checks
18:54:33 <locosage> last time I tried to benchmark openttd I found that my laptop fan died xD
18:55:49 <locosage> guess now would be a good time to see how well I fixed it xD
19:27:10 <andythenorth_> FFS, youtube has decided to give me the 'linkedin' flavour algorithm
19:27:31 <andythenorth_> I've watched some AI shit, so now it's all 'how to save your career' and 'why I'm quitting the industry'
19:28:21 <andythenorth_> on the other hand when I watch tank restoration videos, I immediately get red-pill stuff, so this is better than that
19:30:52 <andythenorth_> _watches TV instead_
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20:03:40 <belajalilija> You gotta really curate that shit
20:05:53 <belajalilija> My YouTube is 90% tanks and military planes from 1930-1965, European trains, food stuff, fashion and music
20:06:48 <belajalilija> The rest is assorted history, linguistics and clips from TV shows
20:07:37 <belajalilija> I get redpill stuff maybe once a month but you can just tell it to not suggest you these channel and it stops
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20:24:54 <bfgiant> Turn off watch history on YouTube and your experience will improve if you don't mind remembering what you have watched, or the algorithm turning into the area sales average algorithm
20:26:28 <_glx_> I just watch subscribed channels (and lost too much time because of shorts)
20:27:35 <belajalilija> Shorts are the bane of my existence
20:27:42 <belajalilija> But a lot of good fashion people are there
20:27:52 <belajalilija> And you can find clips from good tv
20:28:07 <_glx_> my biggest problem with shorts is I have to read the comments
20:31:44 <peter1138> Okay, so scrap everything I've done (except the reorganisation.
20:32:07 <peter1138> Then instead of defining tree tiles, define individual trees
20:32:48 <andythenorth_> shorts I keep clicking 'show fewer'
20:32:54 <andythenorth_> they're nothing but brain cheese
20:33:07 <peter1138> Dynamically build layouts based on some criteria specified by each tree.
20:34:11 <peter1138> Default layouts still exist so existing saves keep the same trees.
20:34:33 <peter1138> Rendering a tree till now has to resolve up to 4 separate sprites.
20:35:09 <peter1138> Authors only have limited control over mixing trees because the game auto-generated the tiles.
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20:35:56 <coobies> andythenorth_: Youtube currently has a setting where you can limit the number of shorts you can watch in succession, to help people with self control I guess, and they let you set it to 0. Of course I expect them to ruin this eventually, but for now it is working nicely for me (I don't ever want to see shorts, but sometimes fat finger them accidentally)
20:36:06 <peter1138> Performance... eh who knows.
20:37:59 <peter1138> What decides how many layouts to generate.
20:38:19 <peter1138> Can players plant individual trees or only layouts.
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20:43:58 <peter1138> Current layout variants have different trees for the "same" tile layout, the variant is pseudo-random based on tile.
20:55:51 <andythenorth_> what's the value of 'vehicle_is_flipped' when a train is driving backwards?
21:19:44 <andythenorth_> `train_is_driving_backwards` is modflags FE bit 11, and only valid for first vehicle of train
21:19:55 <andythenorth_> nml docs need to mention that
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21:26:32 <andythenorth_> dunno, think I'm doing this wrong :P
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21:42:47 <_glx_> most flags are only valid for PARENT scope
21:42:58 <andythenorth_> I'll amend nml docs
21:43:23 <_glx_> there are some exceptions of course (as always)
21:43:29 <andythenorth_> semantics of `vehicle_is_flipped` also seem to be inverted when train is driving backwards
21:43:47 <andythenorth_> either I'm doing it wrong, or that's undocumented
21:43:50 <andythenorth_> and seems wrong
21:47:17 <talltyler> `vehicle_is_flipped` is Ctrl+Click flip, no?
21:48:36 <andythenorth_> or there's a callback for random chance when built
21:48:47 <andythenorth_> I'll look which var it is
21:49:27 <andythenorth_> train var 0x C8
21:52:56 <andythenorth_> far as I can tell it returns true when vehicle is not flipped, but train is driving backwards
21:58:59 <andythenorth_> nfo spec says that bit is only valid on first vehicle, so I amended nml docs to match
22:04:26 <andythenorth_> hmm maybe not, confusing
22:06:36 <talltyler> That second PR isn’t merged.
22:06:39 <andythenorth_> conclusion so far: spritelayer tail lights can't be implemented for backwards driving trains
22:07:08 <andythenorth_> but not sure, I might be doing it wrong
22:10:45 <brickblock19280> andythenorth_: It works for any part tho
22:11:06 <andythenorth_> brickblock19280: bit 11?
22:13:07 <andythenorth_> ok so nfo docs are wrong, I'll fix nfo and revert my nml docs change
22:15:52 <brickblock19280> I followed the nfo docks myself at first
22:16:30 <brickblock19280> But apparently it worked for jp+ so I merged it into one switch aswell
22:17:41 <reldred> I believe Ragin has also done spritelayers for backwards driving trains for both lights and pantos, dunno if it’s been rolled out through the whole grf yet though
22:17:47 <andythenorth_> I can remove that footnote from bit 11
22:18:10 <andythenorth_> backwards driving lights is broken currently
22:18:30 <andythenorth_> or it's PEBKAC here
22:29:31 <belajalilija> reldred: Ours has this too
22:29:39 <belajalilija> It’s really neat
22:33:20 <andythenorth_> so how should tail lights work? I can't figure it out TBH
22:39:38 <peter1138> Red lights at rear only if driving forwards.
22:40:25 <andythenorth_> and if driving backwards?
22:40:59 <andythenorth_> and only 3 of the angles should contain lights
22:41:57 <_glx_> "red lights" layer is just another spriteset
22:42:05 <talltyler> You could just use a blank sprite for the angles where the lights aren’t visible
22:43:19 <andythenorth_> and when the vehicle is flipped, should the tail lights remain in the same place? or disappear?
22:44:32 <andythenorth_> or, 3rd option, the angles used should be shuffled to match the actual position of the vehicle lights
22:44:51 <andythenorth_> but as far as I can tell var 0x8C is currently broken
22:46:17 <andythenorth_> it's unclear what 0xC8 is supposed to be
22:46:23 <andythenorth_> nfo specs call it 'reversed'
22:46:33 <andythenorth_> whereas nml calls it 'vehicle_is_flipped'
22:46:47 <andythenorth_> usually we go with nfo definition
22:47:25 <andythenorth_> a backwards driving vehicle is not flipped
22:47:35 <andythenorth_> but a backwards driving train is reversed
22:47:39 <andythenorth_> so I think nml is wrong
22:49:27 <peter1138> It's not reversed, it's just moving backwards, right?
22:51:43 <andythenorth_> is this returned as `VehicleRailFlag::Reversed`?
23:04:33 <_glx_> if it was reversed when driving forward, it's still reversed when driving backward
23:13:22 <_zephyris> peter1138[d]: I'm definitely not saying scrap it, there's a lot of power with your implementation. Just trying to work through alternatives before committing.
23:14:39 <_zephyris> Key pro for tile layouts for trees is full author control. Key cons are 1) authors need to make a big table, which I suspect would be populated randomly by python script most of the time, and 2) NewGRF interoperability is unclear to me.
23:15:03 <andythenorth_> _found the PEBCAK_
23:15:18 <andythenorth_> can AI write my grfs yet?
23:15:51 <_zephyris> My suggestions are almost the inverse, con is less control, pros are clearer NewGRF interop, no big NewGRF-defined table needed.
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