IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-07-01
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01:35:27 <efessel> FYI Oracle free tier compute seems to be getting cut in half, I think truebrain had set some resources on there
01:36:17 <efessel> I didn't get any notice about it, just randomly searched
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02:26:51 <reldred> IPv6 on Oracle compute being fucked was also the cause of a lot of the backend issues. Time to just gtfo oracle cloud? I suspect they're gonna go bust in the next 6-18mo when OpenAI do anyway.
02:27:23 <reldred> time to colo everything on Andy's macbook
02:27:31 <reldred> or my pile of lenovo micro PC's
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02:33:23 <mmtunligit> federated openttd infra, what could go worng?
02:35:21 <reldred> activity pub spec for openttd
02:37:45 <Izzybee> hell yeha, can't wait to watch the spec be ignored and everything conform to a technically noncompliant implementation
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06:02:35 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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07:48:08 <peter1138> Alright, my activity pub instance is working again.
08:09:06 <peter1138> Something happened to the power in my home server closet and everything rebooted :(
08:09:33 <peter1138> And it was all set up so long ago that IPv4 networking for /32 containers was not quite right.
09:25:14 <DorpsGek> - Add: summary for Q2 of 2026 (by OpenTTD Survey)
09:55:52 <peter1138> Apparently the configurable thing needs to be configurable?
10:12:44 <reldred> you mean it doesn't just work as if by magic?
10:36:30 <peter1138> More like; if you don't want to use it, don't turn it on.
10:41:25 <peter1138> (Yes, that same tt-forums thread)
10:59:08 <reldred> oh god is that pit of mental deficiency still going?
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11:01:04 <andythenorth> any reason it's not a setting?
11:01:21 <andythenorth> "andythenorth thinks settings are bad for software projects" doesn't seem to carry the day
11:01:38 <peter1138> There is a setting.
11:01:50 <andythenorth> but not for speeed
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11:09:06 <talltyler> I replied to the thread
11:09:41 <andythenorth> if there was a speed setting, we'd have to have a resolution mechanic for grf
11:09:59 <andythenorth> as we'd need to indicate if the setting over-rides grf vehicle reversing speeds
11:10:06 <andythenorth> or is over-ridden by grf vehicle reversing speeds
11:10:11 <talltyler> The reason it’s not a setting is that we have too many damn settings already, and every time I add new features I have to deal with old settings that create corner cases that have to be accommodated
11:10:25 <andythenorth> yeah but that argument is old
11:10:32 <andythenorth> and players don't buy it
11:11:10 <andythenorth> it just makes me want to stab myself in the eyes
11:11:12 <talltyler> They don’t have to buy it, if they want a setting they can make a PR or change the constant and compile the game themselves 🙂
11:11:24 <talltyler> Sorry I am cranky 🙂
11:12:13 <andythenorth> I have nothing useful 😛
11:12:33 <talltyler> But you are correct that making it customizable opens cans of worms for "what about GRFs" and "maybe GS can change it too" 🙂
11:12:51 <andythenorth> but then we could also make depot speed adjustable
11:12:54 <talltyler> Easier to say "real trains go this fast, talk to the real world if you don't like it" 😛
11:13:36 <andythenorth> I can't sayI read every line of the thread, but I presume there are reasons the players can't just use grf?
11:13:44 <andythenorth> like they need old unmaintained grfs
11:13:50 <andythenorth> or it's a server they don't control
11:13:55 <andythenorth> or they have a strict vanilla-only rule
11:14:06 <andythenorth> or it's a balancing issue
11:14:16 <talltyler> I hope someone accuses me of doing game design (which seems forbidden for some reason in lieu of letting the most experienced players design their own game, while new players struggle with the game Chris Sawyer designed 30 years ago), so I can tell them I actually am a game designer 🙂
11:14:41 <andythenorth> I haven't heard the game design comment for a while 🙂
11:14:42 <talltyler> Not that there's anything wrong with the original game balance, but it did come with a manual back then...
11:15:23 <talltyler> Nobody in the thread is talking about GRFs, just reversing speed for trains without an engine/cab on the back
11:15:51 <reldred> pffft, tell them to go kick rocks
11:17:30 <reldred> i wonder if I can remember my forum login, then I can tell them myself 😄
11:17:34 <talltyler> Somehow I suspect telling people "I made this feature for myself and don't care about anybody else's opinion" would be poorly-received 😛
11:17:51 <talltyler> Correction, I made this feature for myself and reldred 😛
11:17:55 <reldred> No you can tell them you made it how I like 😛
11:18:13 <reldred> and since I am the Haver Of Correct Opinions
11:18:20 <reldred> they can go kick rocks
11:19:11 <talltyler> I hope that person in Discord channel #jgr-patch-pack follows through on their engine run-around feature, I wish we had that (and turntables, but that's an entirely different can of worms)
11:19:33 <reldred> I think they got scared off by everyone roasting them alive for using clankers
11:20:39 <talltyler> We'll just have to start a GoFundMe to pay mmtunligit's bills so she can work on shunting full-time
11:21:32 <andythenorth> talltyler: that's a privilege reserved to grf authors 😛
11:22:08 <reldred> I mean when people question my jgrpp features I tell em to kick rocks 😛
11:22:27 <talltyler> "kick rocks, I gave you more of them"
11:22:31 <andythenorth> your features mostly are rocks 😛
11:22:50 <reldred> andythenorth: I think I only did make the one rock feature
11:23:02 <reldred> scale density by height level
11:23:14 <talltyler> Somewhere on my wishlist of things I tried and realized was not as easy as it seemed, was when you terraform down, you find rocks 🙂
11:23:40 <andythenorth> if we exposed a bunch of constants, grf could modify them
11:23:45 <andythenorth> and we don't pay the UI tax
11:24:00 <andythenorth> and the values are always treated as constants, value indeterminate
11:24:04 <reldred> yeah but again this is a person not using any grfs
11:24:15 <talltyler> I'm not convinced that's better, that just leads to people trying to talk new players into installing a bunch of mods
11:24:25 <andythenorth> yeah but 'go recompile' just produces 'devs are player hostile' pitchfork crowd
11:24:35 <andythenorth> we already have base costs
11:24:51 <andythenorth> and there's a bunch of other things that would be nice to mod
11:24:59 <andythenorth> global loading speed
11:25:06 <andythenorth> global vehicle capacity multiplier
11:25:11 <talltyler> I am developing this game for free, and releasing it to the public, for free, put those pitchforks away
11:25:50 <reldred> PR or GTFO needs to be a more acceptable response
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11:25:59 <belajalilija> The pitchfork people don’t care
11:26:11 <belajalilija> They have an opinion so they’re right
11:26:12 <talltyler> Global vehicle capacity actually feels like it could be a setting
11:26:31 <reldred> Yeah honestly even if you give them what they say they want you get a new list of things or people who decide whatever it is you did is wrong.
11:26:48 <talltyler> Loading speed doesn't seem to make a huge impact in my games compared to vehicle movement
11:27:03 <talltyler> (and I run some pretty overloaded stations in my current game)
11:31:08 <_jgr_> reldred: We don't really need more frivolous PRs either, especially given AI generated PRs and the like
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11:34:53 <rito12_13> I've got an idea, the reversing speed could be made a per company variable and the faster the vehicle is going backwards the more probable it is to derail
11:41:12 <peter1138> 12:19 < reldred> I think they got scared off by everyone roasting them alive for using clankers
11:41:39 <peter1138> fwiw I wasn't roasting anyone, just mentioned it to avoid later disappointment.
11:42:49 <talltyler> OpenTTD as a gambling game, I like it
11:43:14 <talltyler> Train Whack gacha game when?
11:44:03 <talltyler> If we had spare hotkeys, a "buy random train" easter egg would be very funny 😛
11:44:32 <talltyler> (something something, you can do that in GS)
11:44:42 <peter1138> Okay but Haribo jelly babies are weird.
11:47:23 <reldred> peter1138: Nah you were pretty tame in that whole interaction. I had already warned them though.
11:54:00 <andythenorth> peter1138: seems like it crosses the streams?
12:01:38 <peter1138> It's just... weird.
12:50:09 <mmtunligit> talltyler: huh? no you dont get to volunteer me for this until my coding skills are better
12:52:06 <mmtunligit> i would like my bills being paid though, thatd be nice
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12:55:27 <talltyler> Well, shunting after all the necessary steps to enable it 🙂
13:01:30 <talltyler> All in your own time 🙂
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13:06:22 <shtacks> For what it's worth, if the right people haven't heard it: I am really enjoying the train reversal feature!
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13:11:29 <will_marshall_> I like that we made a feature to keep GRF authors on their toes.
13:11:57 <will_marshall_> Those GRF authors better watch their backs is what I'm saying.
13:43:29 <belajalilija> talltyler: I’m a bit thick, I’m guessing it won’t work with pre-existing height maps?
13:58:12 <talltyler> belajalilija: You can load whatever heightmap you want. The town data is separate. My recommended workflow is to do both at the same time so the coordinates line up properly and the towns spawn in the correct place on the heightmap.
14:01:20 <belajalilija> talltyler: The problem is I’m combining 3 different heightmaps into a mega one xd
14:13:47 <belajalilija> Jake told me that you can set distance to 500 tho
14:14:20 <belajalilija> So I should be able to place the towns i want and have the game fill in the gaps
14:22:53 <belajalilija> I’ll show you when it’s made
15:48:45 <LordAro> how do i say "please do not try to explain doing my own job, but worse" in business speak?
15:57:06 <LordAro> "Dear John, kindly shut the fuck up."
15:57:14 <LordAro> the "kindly" makes it better, right?
15:57:48 <will_marshall_> LordAro: "That's an interesting idea" all time great way of saying "you are stupid"
16:13:43 <peter1138> They're used to slopbots telling them how great their ideas are, I don't think they'd pick up on it.
16:14:53 <will_marshall_> You're absolutely right!
16:16:21 * LordAro smacks will_marshall_ with a large trout
16:23:12 <talltyler> I think even the worst manager would pick up the hint after being smacked with a fish
16:24:37 <will_marshall_> I like to think I'm not the worst manager on planet earth, only the worst communicator. Today I got sent a ticket for an issue that I had quietly fixed nearly a year ago.
16:26:54 <will_marshall_> Summary: "We want to fix this in the next release, but it seems like you fixed it before the last release"
16:26:59 <will_marshall_> Uh, yeah, probably. Sorry?
16:28:06 <LordAro> the only negative is that they noticed you already fixed it :p
16:28:16 <LordAro> now you can't look like a hero for fixing it so quickly
16:28:26 <will_marshall_> Well, no, it raises a question: why did they make a ticket for it 2 weeks ago when it was fixed in August?
16:28:51 <will_marshall_> Did they make the ticket based on vibes or did I screw it up somehow?
16:31:00 <talltyler> "I forgot to bug this thing I saw a while ago and assume it's still a problem"
16:31:39 <talltyler> When will we be able to flip dual-headed engines? 😛
16:32:18 <will_marshall_> talltyler: I think it's genuinely "I saw this happening all the time [50% of the time] in the weeks where I was stressed as hell just before release, so I better log it if we've got a chance to fix bugs around that feature now"
16:32:28 <will_marshall_> TSRs delenda est, that's all I'll say.
16:32:49 <will_marshall_> talltyler: If you tell me what the semantics should be I will deliver it for my next PR.
16:32:58 <will_marshall_> Flip both ends to point inwards? 😛
16:33:33 <talltyler> The Class 91 could do it
16:33:56 <LordAro> well obviously, it'd be reversing
16:34:31 <talltyler> I demand a parameter to control the speed of a backwards Class 91
16:34:41 <will_marshall_> God I wanna build a Class 91 for a simulator so badly.
16:34:54 <will_marshall_> Someone give me a hundred grand.
16:37:31 <will_marshall_> There are no dual-head locos in vanilla/opengfx/other that have different front and rear graphics right?
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16:38:45 <brickblock19280> That doesn't mean it's impossible
16:39:29 <will_marshall_> No I'm sure it's possible, I'm trying to remember the basic semantics of dual_headed trains as a starting point. Need to go load the game.
16:39:54 <brickblock19280> You can tell it's the back one because it's flipped
16:40:30 <will_marshall_> That's what I thought.
16:41:00 <brickblock19280> Basesets work differently tho
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16:41:35 <emperorjake> I'm fairly sure it's not possible in a base set
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16:42:05 <emperorjake> Plenty of NewGRFs do it though
16:42:20 <will_marshall_> Yeah. I know newgrfs do it.
16:42:33 <will_marshall_> There's weird rules about moving the parts in a depot too
16:42:45 <will_marshall_> you can't have an engine in between the two parts of a dual head engine?
16:43:03 <will_marshall_> And normally you can't have wagons between them either?
16:43:20 <brickblock19280> You can always have any wagon between them
16:43:32 <will_marshall_> Sorry, in between *pairs* of a dual head engine
16:43:35 <brickblock19280> Engines I'm not sure of
16:43:48 <brickblock19280> That's possible too
16:43:52 <will_marshall_> the wagons won't go outside the pairs, the engines won't go inside the pairs
16:44:21 <brickblock19280> Wagons can go outside if there are other engines further back I'm almost certain but idk
16:44:39 <will_marshall_> If I move the steam engine out of the formation, the rear part goes to meet the other 125 cab
16:45:08 <will_marshall_> My point is the semantics are really weird, anyway.
16:45:25 <brickblock19280> Why are you looking into this even?
16:45:32 <will_marshall_> just musing after what 2tt said
16:46:12 <will_marshall_> Confirming my suspicion (it makes no sense to allow the user to "flip" things with the dual_headed attribute)
16:46:52 <peter1138> Back in the day it used to be possible to bug things out and buy only 1 part of a multi-head engine, or sell off only 1 part.
16:52:26 <talltyler> Oh, I was joking, I don't think anyone is clamoring to flip dual-headed engines
16:58:26 <will_marshall_> No I don't either. I'm going to submit some work code and go for a swim.
17:32:56 <talltyler> Interesting performance testing in masterhellish's latest video.
17:32:56 <talltyler> For the poor performance of road vehicles and ships leaving the depot, it seems finding vehicles on a tile is quite expensive compared to finding a signal reservation for trains, or checking the airport state machine for aircraft. 🙂
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17:38:17 <masterhellish> Yeah... I was not expecting that
17:39:48 <talltyler> I realized what was different when you mentioned it's ships and RVs that are slow. Both check for other vehicles on the same type, on the same tile, to avoid all vehicles in the depot leaving simultaniously.
18:05:03 <_jgr_> Having lots of road/ship vehicles trying to come out of depot at once will lead to O(N^2) behaviour, and the tile hash becomes a linked list which doesn't help either
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18:45:11 <ketsuban> That video makes me wonder about per-station congestion limits to remove the artificial scenario of having 5,000 planes circling one airport.
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18:50:10 <peter1138> It's a more interesting stress test than the one that other person used to do...
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18:57:54 <andythenorth> wonder what this was
18:58:14 <andythenorth> Flyspray 6145 apparently
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18:59:50 <goddess_ishtar> andythenorth: this gives Conway's Game of Life vibes
19:00:25 <goddess_ishtar> what's the term again for a glider which spawns other gliders? puffer?
19:02:13 <goddess_ishtar> a rake, although technically that's a subset of a puffer
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22:51:10 <will_marshall_> Let me be the first to say, lol.
22:52:21 <brickblock19280> Should probably also derail on curves
22:52:34 <brickblock19280> But it's really good
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23:13:32 <bfgiant> Derailing trains going forward in a separate PR?
23:34:16 <reldred> Rito you’re a crack head I love it
continue to next day ⏵
