IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-06-18
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06:10:28 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
07:50:01 <peter1138> Reads more and more like slop comments.
08:10:39 <peter1138> I am clearly more sensitive to it then.
08:11:27 <LordAro> (not unjustly, perhaps)
08:12:11 <LordAro> but we can't start shooting down every new contributor just because it "looks a bit like AI", that will kill the project
08:12:25 <peter1138> "Here we go" multiple times, a non-reply. PR template sort of filled in but also ignored. (reminder list for the reviewers has been filled in, etc)
08:13:05 <peter1138> Plus the commit message itself, fuck that.
08:13:37 <peter1138> And the commit duplicates existing code instead of reusing functions
08:14:08 <peter1138> Oh and the author's own repository explicitly allows AI, that's a clue too.
08:15:50 <peter1138> But sure, being skeptical is now killing the project.
08:20:30 <LordAro> sorry, you're right, my words were a bit too absolute, i did not mean to single you (or this PR) out specifically
08:21:29 <andythenorth> is the cost of subsidised AI to open source though
08:21:37 <andythenorth> no longer trusting contributions at all
08:21:57 <andythenorth> I watched a video yesterday with Linus talking about it in the kernel project
08:22:57 <tateisukannanirase> We've started putting a declaration in our PR descriptions with some success.
08:22:57 <tateisukannanirase> We could put into the template 'How/did you use AI/LLM for this PR', at least it gives the submitter a chance to be honest about it.
08:26:52 <peter1138> What would we expect authors to do with the ability to add music as audio into a baseset?
08:27:26 <peter1138> Will we have a glut of authors composing their own music tracks and uploading it?
08:28:28 <peter1138> There's no real need to convert existing MIDI tracks to audio because OpenTTD can already play those. But it's probably that someone will do so anyway.
08:29:01 <peter1138> The only concrete example so far is... a copyright infringing test.
08:33:08 <andythenorth> once Fable is unlocked from politics
08:33:17 <andythenorth> people can stop asking for patches to the project
08:33:24 <andythenorth> and just create their own local OpenTTD
08:33:52 <andythenorth> some dude on reddit says that's all fine
08:34:15 <LordAro> i'd imagine you could make that statement about literally anything
08:34:44 <andythenorth> I'd imagine you're correct 🙂
09:29:15 <_zephyris> I suspect that the skill base for a good ogg track is bigger than a good midi track
09:48:16 <peter1138> #15701 and #15743 feel like an X/Y problem.
09:49:40 <peter1138> I don't mean it's not valid, but the phrasing makes it hard to understand.
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13:30:49 <tateisukannanirase> peter1138[d]: is there somehow I can explain it better?
13:46:29 <tateisukannanirase> I am not sure it's an X/Y offset thing, I think it's just one tile ahead of itself and it's a bit hard to unravel that from the existing code. However I don't mind spending some time looking into anything if you have some ideas.
13:48:55 <peter1138> X-Y problem does not refer to coordinates.
13:49:55 <LordAro> can be described as "it's not clear what problem you're trying to solve"
13:50:17 <LordAro> and also "not clear what the problem actually is"
13:51:59 <tateisukannanirase> oh I spent too much time staring at the tile enums 😄
13:52:48 <LordAro> otherwise known as "why people don't like stackoverflow"
13:52:53 <tateisukannanirase> I will try to add a more detailed comment/screenshot/code links to the issue over the weekend.
13:55:20 <tateisukannanirase> The cost calculation is just not correct, that's all. But it's not broken in a way that affects gameplay, so it has probably existed since yapf was created.
13:58:42 <peter1138> Okay so in this case, you've focused on the "problem" being "the cost of the first tile is not included".
14:00:23 <peter1138> So focused in fact that you specified a "test scenario" that is looking only for a specific cost.
14:01:06 <peter1138> This means you end up being unclear on what the solution is, and what the solution is meant to do.
14:01:10 <peter1138> The cost is not included? So what?
14:02:31 <peter1138> Phrase the problem in terms of how it manifests to a player, and you might end up instead with "road vehicle doesn't choose the shortest path".
14:03:03 <peter1138> Not choosing the shortest path would be a much better diagnostic to verify rather than looking for a specific cost.
14:03:53 <tateisukannanirase> Thanks, I will add that to the issue over the weekend.
14:06:16 <peter1138> If that is, indeed, the problem. Your test scenario doesn't test that all.
14:10:39 <talltyler> I think the issue is "every road vehicle takes the same path, even if there are multiple equivalent paths, and that path gets congested and looks silly," if I've read the conversations on Discord correctly.
14:13:25 <peter1138> That's not a problem that the issue mentions, nor does the PR address it.
14:14:20 <mmtunligit> I want my RVs to always take the same path!
14:15:21 <peter1138> Add a setting for the setting!
14:15:45 <LordAro> how many tines should the pitchfork have?
14:17:01 <mmtunligit> LordAro: enough for every dev
14:23:02 <talltyler> Spreading traffic across multiple parallel routes based on congestion is a modern invention tied to Google Maps, Waze, etc., so I demand a setting for a year when this begins
14:23:49 <talltyler> Client-side, so everyone can choose for themselves (and get desynced if their opinion is wrong)
15:05:07 <peter1138> LordAro, why is my MTB so cursed?
15:05:53 <peter1138> It's got a 1x11 Shimano SLX drive-train, so reasonably okay mid-range.
15:06:15 <peter1138> Decided the chainring is looking worn.
15:06:23 <peter1138> Couldn't find anything matching.
15:07:13 <peter1138> Anyway the crank is own-brand, and uses an older (it checks out) SRAM 3-bolt direct mount chain ring that is not Shimano...
15:22:00 <peter1138> And because Shimano were stupid and decided to replace everything with Cues, well... it's all a bit unobtainium.
15:25:28 <andythenorth> younger child has bought a proper MTB
15:25:53 <andythenorth> last night was finding out about lockring tools
15:26:20 <andythenorth> before that it was replacing disk brake caliper units, which are surprisingly cheap compared to pads
15:26:46 <andythenorth> £25 for a new caliper, £8 for the 30mm bolts it needed (20mm and 40mm were the included options)
15:27:41 <LordAro> that is surprisingly cheap
15:30:57 <andythenorth> was on clearance, some sort of SRAM thing
15:31:01 <andythenorth> words I don't know
15:31:16 <andythenorth> we used to Biopace, that's how old I am
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20:17:55 <peter1138> Eh, well, it was a ride.
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20:21:33 <lordgarysugar> Hi talltyler I have been experimenting with https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/docs/importing_town_data.md (I assume it was you that wrote this feature), I was trying to see if there was a way to import a list of coordinates as signs, for example if I wanted to have islands or peaks labelled without having to place the signs manually. I couldn't see a way to do that but it does fall
20:21:33 <lordgarysugar> back to placing signs if the location is blocked by something.
20:55:09 <_zephyris> talltyler: Anything I can help proofread for the beta?
20:58:43 <peter1138> Argh, why does selectionStart does exist for input type=number :/
20:58:52 <peter1138> Argh, why does selectionStart NOT exist for input type=number :/
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22:16:19 <talltyler> lordgarysugar: Correct, there's no way to do this currently, but PRs are welcome. I would suggest adding them in a different data file than towns, to make thing simple. 🙂
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22:16:53 <talltyler> _zephyris: The beta1 announcement post, if you want? Nothing can go out until the changelog PR is done though, so we can actually do the release. 🙂
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22:20:25 <lordgarysugar> talltyler: I don't do pull requests, only issues 😂
22:20:25 <lordgarysugar> I am already planning to have a handful of different jsons so that towns can be imported separately from cities, for example
22:22:09 <talltyler> The current system supports towns and cities in one file 🙂
22:22:38 <lordgarysugar> yes, but I want to keep them separate
22:22:59 <lordgarysugar> if you wanted to create a smaller map using the same heightmap you might only want to import the cities and not the towns
22:28:44 <lordgarysugar> I'm trying to provide as much flexibility as possible so that people can create their scenario with their personal choice of map size, settlement detail, newgrfs etc.
22:29:24 <lordgarysugar> the import town data thingy works well but it's still quite a manual process to enter every desired coordinate by matching it in paint.net first
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22:36:56 <lordgarysugar> I have OSM overlaid over the heighmap in paint.net so I just need to hover my cursor where the label is
22:56:07 <bfgiant> You can click a bunch of points and export that to a text file in this tool if that helps, not sure if paint.net can do that or not (I *think* you are talking about the cursor position text)
23:10:11 <lordgarysugar> you can indeed, I'll have to have a look if that's a better way (I'd still have to click the locations in order and not make any mistakes)
23:10:53 <lordgarysugar> this is the bit I'm talking about, it corresponds exactly to the in game x y (or y x) coordinates
23:17:34 <lordgarysugar> I'm not allowed to open an issue with a feature request on the repo? Have to do it on the forums instead?
23:23:24 <mmtunligit> We don’t really do explicit feature requests, people work on what they find personally exciting
23:23:47 <mmtunligit> “If you want it build it yourself” or something like that
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23:25:41 <reldred> pr or gtfo is the slightly less polite version that I personally like
23:28:39 <lordgarysugar> mmtunligit: I'm not a programmer though
23:32:27 <mmtunligit> Learn, that’s what I did when there was a UI issue that was bugging me
23:33:14 <mmtunligit> Id imagine most of the feature you want is copy pasteable from the current import feature, it’d be a good place to start
23:35:34 <lordgarysugar> That's not a particularly friendly attitude
23:35:58 <lordgarysugar> I only wanted to share an Idea I had
23:36:12 <mmtunligit> I’m not particularly trying to be friendly, I’m trying to be honest about the reality of this project
23:36:18 <mmtunligit> We do not do feature requests
23:36:47 <talltyler> We have no shortage of ideas, only a shortage of time 🙂
23:37:43 <talltyler> People generally work on what they want. If you want sign importing, you will likely have to add it yourself, as nobody else has touched town data importing since I added it (and I am not interested enough in sign importing to add it myself)
23:39:11 <mmtunligit> Fwiw I think your idea is good! Id be happy if it existed in the game, I just would rather be doing other things
23:41:45 <lordgarysugar> I tried seeing if there was a bug I could exploit like setting the population to -1 in the json, maybe it would fail and place a sign instead
23:46:28 <mmtunligit> Towns and signs are completely different, you’d never get a failure state like that
23:47:04 <talltyler> If town founding fails it places a sign 🙂
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23:49:23 <talltyler> It can fail if the terrain is too rough (towns need a flat tile), or if you’ve messed up your data and are trying to found it in the ocean 🙂
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