IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2026-06-08
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00:20:34 <talltyler> Thanks for putting this all together, truebrain ❤️
00:21:16 <talltyler> Infrastructure is all a foreign concept to me, but I will have a look at your docs tomorrow, they are always educational 🙂
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06:08:48 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
06:42:10 <andythenorth> thanks truebrain 🙂
07:01:35 <peter1138> Very gateway timeout.
07:04:11 <peter1138> £100 for a pair of bike tyres? :o
07:17:10 <LordAro> actually, that's about typical
07:17:18 <LordAro> for gp5000s or similar
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07:29:28 <tateisukannanirase> Good morning, I am interested in configuring the road YAPF to occasionally select the 2nd best path to add some variation to road vehicle routes. (This is mainly for my own interest). I can find the tile/segment cost logic but I am struggling to find in the code where the final route is selected. I would appreciate any help from anyone familiar with the YAPF 🙏 or open to any other
07:29:28 <tateisukannanirase> discussions/solutions about road vehicle pathfinder.
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07:35:52 <peter1138> Pathfinders don't build a choice of routes, they can only find the current best route.
07:40:23 <peter1138> Alright, what was the proper way to get ownership of NewGRFs on bananas? :D
07:40:46 <peter1138> I've updated UK Waypoints (which nobody uses) to have bridge height information.
07:41:09 <tateisukannanirase> They compare segments though? In order to ascertain the current best route? Could I intercept the pathfinder at that point to return a different route?
07:43:28 <mmtunligit> Based on my extremely cursory knowledge of the pathfinder code that you shouldn’t trust you’d have to build some sort of cache from the routes it rejects and when it selects the final route have it sometimes pick from that
07:43:49 <mmtunligit> No garuntees that won’t result in list vehicles though
07:44:09 <peter1138> You can provide a weighting to affect the costs, but how will you know where that weighting will need to be?
07:45:05 <utrain> If I had to dead-reckon, the pathfinder quits as soon as it finds a route. You'd probably want to modify the code so that it can continue searching for other routes instead of stopping at the first.
07:45:22 <mmtunligit> but im not sure it’s even capable of finding multiple routes as is
07:46:12 <peter1138> It's A*, so it can only find the best route, there are no "rejected" routes.
07:47:19 <utrain> Another concern is that the second, third, etc. best routes could easily just be the same as the prior up until the very last turns/forks.
07:47:34 <mmtunligit> peter1138: Yeah I realized that too late
07:47:43 <utrain> Wouldn't be as interesting as you intended...
07:48:27 <utrain> So, you'd probably want to filter based on similarity as well.
07:48:34 <mmtunligit> I did say not to trust me after all :P
07:49:41 <peter1138> Also road vehicles cache their route for a bit to avoid calling the pathfinder too often, as it's expensive. Though you need a road vehicle-heavy game for that to become noticable.
07:50:31 <utrain> realistic enough for them to reuse the same routes lol
07:51:17 <rito12_13> Isn't the case with A* that to get variety you change the weights?
07:51:50 <peter1138> LordAro, GP5000S are £70 each from Sigma :/
07:51:52 <mmtunligit> dartboards and blindfolds methinks
07:54:28 <tateisukannanirase> I have played with penalties by detecting stopped vehicles, but it was waaay too expensive to loop over all the vehicles on each tile. Maybe I need to be a bit more creative in adding weights.
07:54:28 <tateisukannanirase> I've got a couple of saved games that I got from other players that really highlight the simplicity of road yapf, because it has no concept of traffic congestion or waypoints, which rail has and ship/air doesn't need.
07:55:11 <utrain> tateisukannanirase: why couldn't you add the penalties as you're pathfinding?
07:55:24 <utrain> as yapf hits each node/tile, it could check for stopped vehicles then.
07:56:40 <utrain> cuz there isn't a way to query for vehicles on tiles probably...
07:56:46 <tateisukannanirase> it works fantastically but it causes a big increase in CPU in cases where you need it most; when there are many RVs on a map.
07:59:18 <tateisukannanirase> I also thought about flagging a tile with a 'blocked' flag and setting it when a vehicle stops (outside of a stop), but it needs to be paired with trackdir and there doesn't seem to be any existing pattern for storing that kind of data against a tile.
07:59:36 <peter1138> I assume you tested with `VehiclesOnTile()`?
08:01:25 <tateisukannanirase> I used `HasVehicleOnTile()` which is a kindof wrapper for that. I tried to limit it to just checking tiles on the first segment but there is no way to get the segment index inside PfCalcCost (as far as I could tell..)
08:07:08 <peter1138> Yeah, on a large map the hash collisions of `VehiclesOnTile()` will mean it has to check the position of vehicles that aren't on that tile.
08:08:21 <peter1138> And the size of it is a trade-off between performance and memory usage.
08:10:00 <peter1138> The hash algorithm is crude^H^H^H^H^H simple as well, so if you have long straight lines you get more collisions.
08:10:42 <LordAro> i've not seen someone do a manual ^H in *ages*
08:11:03 <tateisukannanirase> Long straight lines is what you get in games with lots of RVs because they all follow the same route like [game] lemmings.
08:12:05 <peter1138> The the fact that hash is effectively 2D is a clue to how crude it is :D
08:12:17 <peter1138> The fact that the hash...
08:15:45 <peter1138> Some operations that use it do use the 2D-ness of it as a feature though.
08:28:51 <peter1138> Meeting request to review X process.
08:29:26 <peter1138> Well, I know nothing about X process other than I've been requested to a meeting to review it...
08:36:24 <DorpsGek> - Add: summary for week 23 of 2026 (by OpenTTD Survey)
10:08:58 <andythenorth> Order type to randomly select a ‘via’ waypoint?
10:32:55 <peter1138> I guess 1 height level might work for bare platforms, bit awkward to place though.
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11:21:41 <andythenorth> Naptime, then lunch?
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11:55:08 <_zephyris> Hits the old problem of the forced perspective height illusion
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12:52:14 <peter1138> Not even that really, the pillars get draw over the platforms which makes them look like they are on top of the platforms.
14:55:15 <peter1138> Yeah, when the minimum is 2, it's easy enough to place a small station under a bridge.
14:55:47 <peter1138> But because you can't choose to build only bare platforms, a bridge height of 1 is very hard to build under.
14:56:42 <peter1138> Could be a possibility for default stations, but means that order-of-operations becomes import.
15:48:17 <talltyler> When you say bare platforms, you mean without the station building? It's easy to avoid that, just build a longer station and don't bridge the center tile 🙂
15:55:56 <peter1138> Yeah but then I have to rebuild the rest of the station to get it how I want it :)
15:56:02 <peter1138> "That's what NewGRF stations are for"
15:58:19 <_zephyris> Need to make OpenGFX2+ station...
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16:18:07 <digitalfox> _zephyris: please finish 4x first 🙂
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16:18:59 <digitalfox> True, but what a awesome thing to be alive and see 😝
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16:53:48 <_glx_> oh there's a new Tom Scott video
16:53:54 <LordAro> of course, it's Monday
16:54:09 <LordAro> but yes, this one's *relevant* ;)
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17:15:28 <peter1138> I missed the ice-cream van :(
17:26:56 <_zephyris> I can probably make a NewGRF with one
17:30:09 <peter1138> Step 1) define the problem
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17:35:42 <jfkuayue> Every tourist small town from "last era" in the uk features ice cream vans selling over-sweet and over-colourful sweets
17:36:26 <jfkuayue> Skegness, cleethorpes, matlock
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17:50:02 <LordAro> saying random shit with such confidence
17:54:48 <jfkuayue> I was replying to peter's ice cream vans
18:04:55 <peter1138> Hmm, I guess the bananas website is struggling again. It was okay this morning.
18:49:36 <andythenorth> yup bananas login failing again
19:00:11 <belajalilija> LordAro: Yeah it does that
19:00:34 <belajalilija> I don’t even know who it is you’re talking to, i have 2 people blocked in the server and both of them do that lmao
19:00:36 <andythenorth> So anyone with core commit rights might be able to turn services off snd on
19:01:10 <_zephyris> `Be very careful. You have admin access.`
19:03:30 <peter1138> andythenorth, once they know where it is.
19:03:30 <_zephyris> So, I'm on a laptop with a flaky touch screen with occasional phantom clicks... I'm not going to try logging in!
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19:08:29 <andythenorth> seems to work as intended
19:08:56 <andythenorth> andythenorth is not suitable for admin
19:09:41 <peter1138> I don't know what an "Evaluation" is, but "bananas-server-prod" had one at 11:49 today.
19:21:44 <andythenorth> hmm not useful results
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19:42:16 <peter1138> Okay, it's coming back.
19:52:58 <rito12_13> belajalilija: Who is the other one?
19:57:38 <belajalilija> rito12_13: Not you
20:40:53 <jfkuayue> It is time to divide and rule. Bella ciao, and l'Internationale will finally prevail!
20:42:40 <_zephyris> All squished, I think
20:46:58 <_zephyris> The code might be less beautiful 😉
20:48:18 <digitalfox> PR it and then let the wizards have a say 🙂
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20:50:10 <_zephyris> I need to do a simplify spaghetti pass
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20:50:25 <_zephyris> Pretty sure I've got some dead code paths!
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21:33:00 <_zephyris> Hmm, what should half tile highlights look like?
22:06:27 <_zephyris> Hmm, and I've broken height tooltips
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